Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Usage Stats in post #581]

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Jordy

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You're not going to avoid bringing in Vanilluxe for the majority of the match simply because they have an Excadrill, you want it to set up screens as early as possible, but Excadrill will likely be revenge killing (I'm assuming Vanilluxe doesn't have the bulk to tank too many hits especially with rocks).
Why is the fact that it is revenge killed by Excadrill so important? All Vanilluxe needs is one turn to set Aurora Veil, after that, it really doesn't have to do much. Also, you are acting as if Excadrill will be on the field the whole match to never give Vanilluxe a switch-in opportunity, which simply isn't going to be the case.

Anyways, this conversation is getting pretty off topic now and isn't very relevant to the actual metagame anymore, so let's move on and get back to discussing the metagame.
 
Vanilluxe is able to 2HKO Mandibuzz, which Ninetales is incapable of. Both Pokemon have unique advantages and disadvantages, and given one is unavailable and therefore subject to theorymonning, it is absurd to say that is a superior choice especially given the former's unique ability to set Veil and then 2HKO the tier's best Defogger while exploding on the next best Defogger and sending in a teammate that forces it out while abusing free turns generated by Veil. I would still prefer Grimmsnarl in most cases anyway.
 
On a different note, I want to talk about Salazzle.
:salazzle:
Salazzle@Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Substitute
-Toxic
-Protect
-Fire Blast / Sludge Wave
The ability to stall out any pokemon is huge, and is hugely annoying. You also can't switch out, for fear of Salazzle poisoning your whole team.
Therefore, you need to revenge kill it, and Salazzle is guaranteed to take down a pokemon with it (or just poison your whole team).
Salazzle definitely can work on semi-stall, complementing the likes of Mandibuzz and Ferrothorn rather well, covering for each others weaknesses and providing utility.
Vanilluxe is able to 2HKO Mandibuzz, which Ninetales is incapable of. Both Pokemon have unique advantages and disadvantages, and given one is unavailable and therefore subject to theorymonning, it is absurd to say that is a superior choice especially given the former's unique ability to set Veil and then 2HKO the tier's best Defogger while exploding on the next best Defogger and sending in a teammate that forces it out while abusing free turns generated by Veil. I would still prefer Grimmsnarl in most cases anyway.
8 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 210-248 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
 
8 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 210-248 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
Standard Mandibuzz set is Careful, but thanks for that. I do like the idea of your Salazzle set, though, for its ability to lure in and cripple Toxapex. It's unfortunate that no Steel types would switch in on it, though, out of fear of its Fire STAB.
 
On a different note, I want to talk about Salazzle.
:salazzle:
Salazzle@Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Substitute
-Toxic
-Protect
-Fire Blast / Sludge Wave
The ability to stall out any pokemon is huge, and is hugely annoying. You also can't switch out, for fear of Salazzle poisoning your whole team.
Therefore, you need to revenge kill it, and Salazzle is guaranteed to take down a pokemon with it (or just poison your whole team).
Salazzle definitely can work on semi-stall, complementing the likes of Mandibuzz and Ferrothorn rather well, covering for each others weaknesses and providing utility.

8 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 210-248 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
I’ve seen that same Salazzle set used with Disable instead of protect and it’s pretty terrifying since it shuts down choice mons and lots of common defensive Pokémon that only have one move that can break a sub. Venoshock is worth a consideration as well over Sludge Wave as you’ll be poisoning everything anyway.
 

hero

amiwos :J
On a different note, I want to talk about Salazzle.
:salazzle:
Salazzle@Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Substitute
-Toxic
-Protect
-Fire Blast / Sludge Wave
The ability to stall out any pokemon is huge, and is hugely annoying. You also can't switch out, for fear of Salazzle poisoning your whole team.
Therefore, you need to revenge kill it, and Salazzle is guaranteed to take down a pokemon with it (or just poison your whole team).
Salazzle definitely can work on semi-stall, complementing the likes of Mandibuzz and Ferrothorn rather well, covering for each others weaknesses and providing utility.

8 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mandibuzz: 210-248 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
As long as we're talking about Salazzle which is a mon I've had my eye for ever since the gen started, I like this proposed ev spread that lets you take two crashes from Darm, which can be useful.

Salazzle @ Black Sludge
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 36 SpD / 120 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Disable / Protect
- Sludge Wave / Flamethrower

+1 252 Atk Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 104 Def Salazzle: 142-168 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
not taking black sludge into account because I was low key playing around heavy duty boots with wish support, so you could probably take away some defense. The speed is enough to outspeed 328s (and Hydreigon, which is neat), which felt like the most relevant speed tier. The rest is dumped into SpD, since I'm sure you can get this in on Clef a couple of times thanks to its resistances.
If and when Darm gets banned I'd defintely go more SpDef oriented for Clef. I like disable more too, since it comes in handy multiple times, not the least of which is playing around duggy.

edit: not saying protect isn't an option, specially for scouting darm and racking up toxic. I'll add it as a slash.
 
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Can we just take a minute to appreciate Araquanid as a Sticky Web setter?

Araquanid @ Focus Sash
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Sticky Web
- Liquidation
- Lunge
- Mirror Coat

It's definitely the slowest setter but it has rarely failed to get webs out for me and with the meta shifting to a bit more bulk it's actually punched some holes in more bulky leads that don't one shot. Liquidation hits hard as a truck thanks to Water Bubble on even some resisted hits with a bonus chance of dropping def. Lunge can lower attack and make a nice alternative STAB to Pokemon weak to bug. Mirror Coat can throw off Rotom which is being used a lot atm and will most likely Switch in to Volt Switch. This thing also does a decent job at checking G.Darm who outside of the rare Rock Slide variant can't 2HKO Araquanid when hazards aren't up and can get OHKO'd in return.
Darmanitan-Galar Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Araquanid: 117-138 (34.4 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Darmanitan-Galar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Water Bubble Araquanid: 111-131 (32.6 - 38.5%) -- 98.6% chance to 3HKO
Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Araquanid: 92-108 (27 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Darmanitan-Galar U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Araquanid: 130-153 (38.2 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Darmanitan-Galar: 326-386 (92.8 - 109.9%)

Naturally this is only for Choice Scarf as Choice Band G.Darms turns into 2HKOs unless it comes in on Earthquake with no hazards up. Araquanid is definitely fringe at best but I feel it does better in this meta as a Sticky Web setter compared to last gen and has a small niche over Ribombee.
Like Corona already said I feel like running Mystic Water/Lefties/heavy duty boots over sash gets you more utility out of Araquinid since not much really OHKOs it anyway, but I understand running sash just to better guarantee your chances of getting the web up. Although something I’ve found is a lot of fun is Metronome, which does a really good job at punishing hazard removers like Corviknight, Mandibuzz, and Avalugg if they come in to Defog/Spin and then start trying to Roost/Recover up on you.

Now if you wanna try a really stupid gimmick, you can slash out one of your filler moves for Entrainment, which lets you give water bubble to Seismitoad and Gastrodon so you can hit them with Liquidation. The former is usually just gonna end up being able to toxic stall you anyway, though.
 
Dunno what you guys think about it but I often have fun using Tsaarena as a Rapid Spin user defensive pivot because she is pretty polyvalent:

Tsareena (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Trop Kick / Power Whip
- Rapid Spin
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn

She check prankster users thanks to her ability (hi grimmsnarl), deal reasonable amount of damage without investment and is surprisingly bulky. She also learns interesting moves like Knock off, Taunt, Aromatherapy and Synthesis if you want an healing option.
 
Dunno what you guys think about it but I often have fun using Tsaarena as a Rapid Spin user defensive pivot because she is pretty polyvalent:

Tsareena (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Trop Kick / Power Whip
- Rapid Spin
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn

She check prankster users thanks to her ability (hi grimmsnarl), deal reasonable amount of damage without investment and is surprisingly bulky. She also learns interesting moves like Knock off, Taunt, Aromatherapy and Synthesis if you want an healing option.
Tsareena is a very underrated pokemon, I personally swap out HJK with Aromatherapy, use Trop Kick over Power whip and use leftovers for use on rain teams with Dracovish and Barraskewda due to her ability to remove burns which cripple both of these pokemon. This Tsareena set has ridiculous role compression with the ability to clear hazards, block any priority move, force out or kill every water absorb pokemon in the metagame, reduce the attack stat of threatening physical pokemon to allow your damage dealers to kill the threat, beating priority moves and possibly their users (most notably revenge killers such as an opposing Barraskewda when they try to KO your own weakened Barra with a banded aqua jet, though the Grimmsnarl counter is also handy) providing an additional pivot into predicted resists and a slow U-turn. I do recommend putting 4 HP EV's to SpD to minimize hazards damage from rocks, however.

Overall, I see Tsareena as being a sleeper pick for use on a bunch of teams, notably, physical rain teams with Barraskewda and Dracovish, helping support these teams with her incredibly versatile moveset, enabling Banded Dracovish in rain to do 70-80% 2HKO Max HP/Max Def Toxapex and Ferrothorn and Barraskewda to clean up the smouldering remains of the opposing team.
 
A fun silly Prankster gimmick

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Bulk Up
- Play Rough

This is based off an old Tornadus gimmick that used the same idea. Prankster allowed for priority healing, guaranteeing a defence boost before your opponent hits you and by using sleep talk, indirectly giving you priority 90 bp fairy stab. Obviously it's not the most consistent set in the world and you're probably better of running normal bulk up, but having rest does allow it to stay healthy while still setting up on some physical threats.

As suggested by later posts, the attacking move can be replaced with whatever else you want, specially Darkest Lariat or Spirit Break.
Hello! I'm very new to the Smogon Forums and saw your set as I was browsing.

There is a couple things I want to bring up about RestTalk Grimmsnarl after playing around with it in the Damage Calc, and in a few battles of my own.

Firstly, this set is less gimmicky when combined with Dual STABs, as this allows you to fully check Dragapult, both modest and timid while having the ability to completely shutdown most bulky Ghost/Dark types with in the tier. Secondly, it requires a little more support on a team with Aromatherapy, or a defensive backbone that can help take care of its Poison & Steel weaknesses.


RestTalk Grimmsnarl /w calcs:
Grimmsnarl (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 164 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Darkest Lariat
- Spirit Break

As previously mentioned this set can come in on most bulky Ghost/Dark types. A quick note I want to make on this set is that Sleep Talk + rolled attack will ALWAYS fail on a Dark type, which hinders the viability of this set. However, it does not stop it from being able to check certain walls such as Jellicent, Umbreon, Mandibuzz, Corsola-Galar, etc. Another EV spread consisting of 252 HP / 224 SpD with a Careful Nature can also be ran. Rest of the EVs on both spreads are put into defense for better overall bulk, you can run some attack if you want to nag a KO on certain threats. Below are some example EVs for two of the infamous Dragons in OU.


+1 252+ SpA Dragapult Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 164+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (3HKO with SR up)
252 SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 164+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 164+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 322-380 (81.7 - 96.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


+1 252+ SpA Dragapult Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 146-172 (37 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 302-356 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (You could probably put this as a 2HKO with more investment)
252 SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (3HKO with SR).


Note 1: I was very nervous to make this post as it is my first one!
Note 2: Some of the EVs could be more optimized depending on team.
Edit: Removed some text that was not addressing the core point of this post.
Enjoy!
 
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Hatterene has to be up there for one of my favourite Pokemon to use competitively. It pairs so well with Bisharp. The standard TR set is actually quite splashable. It acts as hazard control by proxy for it's ability and it's bulky enough to find easy ways to set up TR and become it's own pocket speed control. It decimates Ferropex and baits out defog (given the interaction with MB and Defog) for Bisharp's defiant. Mostly laughs at Grimmsnarl because of Fairy STAB and it's massive special attack let's it under SR scenario, 2HKO toad with Psychic.
 
Hello! I'm very new to the Smogon Forums and saw your set as I was browsing.

There is a couple things I want to bring up about RestTalk Grimmsnarl after playing around with it in the Damage Calc, and in a few battles of my own.

Firstly, this set is less gimmicky when combined with Dual STABs, as this allows you to fully check Dragapult, both modest and timid while having the ability to completely shutdown most bulky Ghost/Dark types with in the tier. Secondly, it requires a little more support on a team with Aromatherapy, or a defensive backbone that can help take care of its Poison & Steel weaknesses.


RestTalk Grimmsnarl /w calcs:
Grimmsnarl (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 164 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Darkest Lariat
- Spirit Break

As previously mentioned this set can come in on most bulky Ghost/Dark types. A quick note I want to make on this set is that Sleep Talk + rolled attack will ALWAYS fail on a Dark type, which hinders the viability of this set. However, it does not stop it from being able to check certain walls such as Jellicent, Umbreon, Mandibuzz, Corsola-Galar, etc. Another EV spread consisting of 252 HP / 224 SpD with a Careful Nature can also be ran. Rest of the EVs on both spreads are put into defense for better overall bulk, you can run some attack if you want to nag a KO on certain threats. Below are some example EVs for two of the infamous Dragons in OU.


+1 252+ SpA Dragapult Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 164+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (3HKO with SR up)
252 SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 164+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 162-192 (41.1 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 164+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 322-380 (81.7 - 96.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


+1 252+ SpA Dragapult Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 146-172 (37 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 302-356 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (You could probably put this as a 2HKO with more investment)
252 SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Grimmsnarl: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (3HKO with SR).


Note 1: I was very nervous to make this post as it is my first one!
Note 2: Some of the EVs could be more optimized depending on team.
Edit: Removed some text that was not addressing the core point of this post.
Enjoy!
I mostly just used Bulk Up because that was what the old Tornadus line used, but the idea is that it allows Grimm to take physical hits much better and boost past things it's single stab wouldn't kill. I'll definitely try dual stabs though
 
Vanilluxe Shiny sprite from Black & White

Vanilluxe @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Blizzard
- Flash Cannon
- Freeze-Dry
- Explosion / Aurora Veil

Here's a set that I've been having a lot of fun with using on ladder. 282 Speed x1.5 Scarf = 423 Speed, enough speed to out space Dragapult and OHKO. Being able to freely fire off Blizzards with hail chip can add on some real pressure on balance builds, as a lot of defensive & bulky cores do not appreciate the hail chip that comes with the STAB Blizzard. It's also a great check to rain teams with Freeze Dry. But the most important thing to note, is the surprise KOs that Scarf offers to unsuspecting players. Disrupting sand to cancel the Excadrill sweep, a lot of players are going to stay in thinking they out speed but, surprise! Choice Scarf (the damage output is 63-74.2% so you'll need a little chip first).
The set is a great check to specs Dragapult, sub Hydreigon, scarf/band Dracovish, and non-scarf Dugtrio.

Side Note - Naive Nature was chosen to live hits better from Scarf Darmanitan-Galar (Earthquake 69.9-82.3% & Icicle Crash 44.5-52.2%) and priority users like Crawduant (Aqua Jet 55.8%-65.7%).
 
I'm glad you posted this. I never bothered to try luke on HO and it looks promising. It's like Bisharp except with a stronger stab move and better speed. Bisharp is really good of course but it just misses out on important KOs like Corviknight, Ferro, Pex, and Toad due to not having knock off and it looks like Luke nabs those with CC. Also I've seen many corviknight running body press which is frustrating to lose a sweep when corviknight barely tanks the throat chop and KOs back.

Jolly vs Adamant is an issue though. Jolly lets you outspeed excadrill, rotom, and gyarados which you need to hit with CC. The damage goes down to 94% and 88% min to seismitoad and pex respectively. SR keeps them in range though it's shakier. Also EQ vs crunch is picking between pex vs. jellicent and jelly can strength sap you forever without +2 crunch. Regardless I'm giving this a go when I get the chance.
Given that HO is pretty well centered around screens right now, I think it's reasonable to give Lucario a try over Bisharp. But for any HO team that really relies on hazards (either a full web team or just one that needs rock damage to land KOs) I think you can't forego a Defiant user.

That being said, I think Lucario and Bisharp could actually work out well together. Lucario has loads of great coverage options like EQ, Ice/Thunder Punch and Extremespeed that could help cover some of Bisharp's big weaknesses like Hawlucha and Haze Toxapex. The two together make a pretty scary priority spam duo for finishing off teams as well.
 
Dunno what you guys think about it but I often have fun using Tsaarena as a Rapid Spin user defensive pivot because she is pretty polyvalent:

Tsareena (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Trop Kick / Power Whip
- Rapid Spin
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn

She check prankster users thanks to her ability (hi grimmsnarl), deal reasonable amount of damage without investment and is surprisingly bulky. She also learns interesting moves like Knock off, Taunt, Aromatherapy and Synthesis if you want an healing option.
Queenly Majesty is useless in singles, and Sweet Veil would be preferable over it(and Leaf Guard).
Also when running AV, you generally want to run spdef to maximise it's potential.
Trop Kick should cover for the lack of def investment somewhat.
But, while Tsareena does have potential, it's just one of those iffy pokemon like Silvally that have potential, but really are fringe picks and belong in lower tiers. For example, it has nothing to boast in its stats other than an above average Attack stat. I'd see maybe an all-out attacking set being it's best bet, but I'm not really sold on Tsareena especially with the reasoning you've given us.
Also Queenly Majesty doesn't prevent prankster and it affects allies anyways not Tsareena specifically and it doesn't get Knock Off so not sure where you got that from.
 

TPP

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Queenly Majesty is useless in singles, and Sweet Veil would be preferable over it(and Leaf Guard).
Also when running AV, you generally want to run spdef to maximise it's potential.
Trop Kick should cover for the lack of def investment somewhat.
But, while Tsareena does have potential, it's just one of those iffy pokemon like Silvally that have potential, but really are fringe picks and belong in lower tiers. For example, it has nothing to boast in its stats other than an above average Attack stat. I'd see maybe an all-out attacking set being it's best bet, but I'm not really sold on Tsareena especially with the reasoning you've given us.
Also Queenly Majesty doesn't prevent prankster and it affects allies anyways not Tsareena specifically and it doesn't get Knock Off so not sure where you got that from.
Queenly Majesty blocks priority in singles as well. You're right in that it does not get Knock Off, but Queenly Majesty is the preferred ability as it grants Tsareena immunity to priority attacks and Prankster.

I got a little bored and felt like creating some questions for discussion that you all can answer to your heart's content:

1. What do you believe are the best sets for the following mons?
  • Aegislash
  • Clefable
  • Corviknight
  • Dragapult
  • Hatterene
  • Kommo-o
  • Rotom-Wash
  • Rotom-Heat
  • Tyranitar
2. How do you feel about these mons? Are they good, not that great, underrated, or overrated?
  • Bisharp
  • Cinderace
  • Dracozolt
  • Excadrill
  • Flareon
  • Gastrodon
  • Gengar
  • Grimmsnarl
  • Jellicent
  • Mamoswine
  • Milotic
  • Reuniclus
  • Snorlax
  • Toxtricity
  • Xatu
3. These mons seem to have fallen off a bit in the post-dynamax metagame. What do you think?
  • Barraskewda
  • Ditto
  • Gyarados
  • Hawlucha
  • Togekiss
That's all from me for now. Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and I sincerely hope you all have a wonderful time.
 
Queenly Majesty blocks priority in singles as well. You're right in that it does not get Knock Off, but Queenly Majesty is the preferred ability as it grants Tsareena immunity to priority attacks and Prankster.

I got a little bored and felt like creating some questions for discussion that you all can answer to your heart's content:

1. What do you believe are the best sets for the following mons?
  • Aegislash
  • Kommo-o
2. How do you feel about these mons? Are they good, not that great, underrated, or overrated?

  • Dracozolt
  • Grimmsnarl
  • Toxtricity
Specs Aegislash is a menace and potentially the best Aegi set right now. 140 Special Attack is really good, and Steel/Ghost coverage is actually quite solid. Steel Beam is also really useful since the sheer power it packs (140 BP!) means that after a round of SR, standard Aegislash answers like Mandibuzz just drop (Specs Flash Cannon can 2HKO but you may or may not outspeed depending on the EV spreads). Aegislash is still possibly low-key busted, and the sheer power of Specs (there's nearly nothing that can switch into both Specs Flash Cannon and Shadow Ball, and the things that can like SpDef Centiskorch/Flareon can be worn down pretty easily by teammates, or blown away by Banded Head Smash which is another fairly solid Aegi set).

Defensive Kommo-o is worth exploring more I think. Body Press is great (lets Kommo-o handle Excadrill, Bisharp, Tyranitar, and Hydreigon in one slot), and Kommo-o has quite good defensive bulk while having offensive presence and coverage. Losing Toxic hurts, but it works both ways since Kommo-o doesn't have to worry about as many stray Toxics coming its way (especially important on a defensive set). Stealth Rock is an option, but Kommo-o can also actually use the other 3 slots for stuff like Protect, Flamethrower (great vs Ferrothorn, and prevents Kommo-o from being set up fodder for Corviknight somewhat, helps check Aegislash too), Earthquake (mostly for Aegislash and Toxtricity, the latter of which is countered by Soundproof Kommo-o funnily enough), Dragon Tail (Phasing+Rocks is always nice), and Flash Cannon/Iron Head (stops Hatterene/LO Clefable for coming in freely). Bulletproof is good since Aegislash is running around the place and having a Shadow Ball immunity is always nice. Soundproof has value, especially on teams weak to Toxtricity (i.e. most teams with Corviknight+Toxapex), and also hoses the random Sylveon (Mystical Fire isn't doing anything while you're immune to Hyper Voice).

Dracozolt's cool, but really wants Grassy Surge Rillaboom to be out since Boom is basically the perfect partner for a SubLefties Dracozolt that punches holes in Pex/Corv/Ferro cores for a sweeper to exploit. Grassy Surge Rillaboom with Knock Off, U-Turn, Drum Beating, and whatever (Fake Out, Superpower, etc.) is pretty much everything SubLefties Dracozolt wants: gets rid of Leftovers/Rocky Helmet on Mandibuzz/Ferrothorn/Corviknight so Dracozolt takes less unnecessary chip and decreases their ability to stall out or check Dracozolt, Drum Beating drops speed and makes it easier for Dracozolt to power up Bolt Beak, and U-Turn is always great and Rillaboom is fast or slow enough (with Drum Beating) to bring in Dracozolt effectively.

Grimmsnarl has a lot of potential that isn't being explored fully yet I feel, since Support Dual Screens Grimmsnarl was IIRC (one of) the most common sets. Base 120 Attack is actually damn good, and Bulk Up sets can threaten a lot with just one boost (RestTalk BU+Darkest Lariat Grimmsnarl is a legit wincon too). Power Swap Grimmsnarl is a good emergency check to non-Dark Type setup sweepers (and running Drain Punch on these sets as a result is a good idea).

Non-Choice Specs Toxtricity is also a bit underexplored-yes the raw power of Choice Specs is great, but I think other options (Silk Scarf, Life Orb, Throat Spray for items; Fire Punch/Shift Gear for other moves) should be explored more. Being able to single-handedly demolish Toxapex+Corviknight cores is great, especially since Overdrive bypasses Substitute (most relevant for Corviknight). Boomburst means Ground-types get chunked (especially if Specs). However, being Choice-locked can be exploited since Aegislash and Dragapult are fairly common and immune to Boomburst (the former is also immune to Sludge Wave) while Seismitoad is also very common too and blocks Volt Switch/Overdrive. Ferrothorn also is a momentum drainer (Specs Boomburst does chunk though). Being able to switch moves to punish switching between Ground and Ghost types is pretty useful, and it's not like Toxapex or Corviknight can suddenly beat Toxtricity then.
 
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Queenly Majesty blocks priority in singles as well. You're right in that it does not get Knock Off, but Queenly Majesty is the preferred ability as it grants Tsareena immunity to priority attacks and Prankster.

I got a little bored and felt like creating some questions for discussion that you all can answer to your heart's content:

1. What do you believe are the best sets for the following mons?
  • Aegislash
  • Clefable
  • Corviknight
  • Dragapult
  • Hatterene
  • Kommo-o
  • Rotom-Wash
  • Rotom-Heat
  • Tyranitar
2. How do you feel about these mons? Are they good, not that great, underrated, or overrated?
  • Bisharp
  • Cinderace
  • Dracozolt
  • Excadrill
  • Flareon
  • Gastrodon
  • Gengar
  • Grimmsnarl
  • Jellicent
  • Mamoswine
  • Milotic
  • Reuniclus
  • Snorlax
  • Toxtricity
  • Xatu
3. These mons seem to have fallen off a bit in the post-dynamax metagame. What do you think?
  • Barraskewda
  • Ditto
  • Gyarados
  • Hawlucha
  • Togekiss
That's all from me for now. Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and I sincerely hope you all have a wonderful time.
I really like Choiced sets on Aegis, and I've taken back what abuse I'm thrown at Choiced Aegislashes. However, that being said, I do like Double Dance Aegislash, it's STABs hits everything relevant save for Bisharp.
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Autotomize
- Iron Head
- Shadow Claw

I've given both physdef and spdef a shot, and I have to say I'm pretty disappointed by both. Clefable just doesn't have outstanding bulk and loss of Soft-Boiled and Toxic just makes LO Clef the only viable one.
Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpA / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt

There are basically 2 main sets, Sub-BU and Utility, with Power Trip and BP just hanging in the background. While I do think Power Trip is pretty cool, it's way too niche, and unlike Reuniclus it doesn't have an option to boost both defenses to stay as bulky as possible, so a fringe pick at best. BP is just terrible coming off a 105 Def(hell, it's not even a set anymore) plus not boosted by STAB.
Post-Dynamax era, Sub-BU took a major blow from not being able to boost speed via Max Airstream, so I think Utility is king.
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 232 SpD / 28 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- U-Turn / Iron Head
- Roost
- Defog

This really is no competition, Specs is the only viable one.
Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt

While this one is a tough one for sure, I think TR takes the cake due to being able to set up TR, plus being self-sufficient, and is pretty much a nightmare for teams w/out Corviknight or Utility Corviknight w/out Iron Head.
Hatterene (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball

I think for sure that Sub BD is the best. BP is definitely worth exploring, but BD has the ability to go 6-0 especially behind a sub. While it may be outsped by all relevant scarfers bar Dracovish, it's ability to beat everything behind a sub plus the surprise element gives it the crown in my opinion.
Kommo-o @ Salac Berry
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch

Probably just standard 3 attacks plus Wisp.
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp

Heattoms' ability to be one of the rare checks to GDarm by resisting all of its standard attacks definitely gives it a very solid niche in OU.
However, its movepool is pretty barren so it's either ScarfTrick or defensive.
Due to its mediocre speed, I think defensive wins, with the ability to sponge hits from GDarm and come in somewhat safely on Scarfed GDarm. (nothing comes in on banded gdarm)
Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp

Banded for sure is the best. While both DD and defensive have merits, banded hits like a truck; on levels comparable to GDarm. Plus, it has decent bulk and it is extremely hard to OHKO w/out a fighting move.
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Fire Punch

I'll answer the second set of questions later.
 

Jordy

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OU Forum Leader
1. What do you believe are the best sets for the following mons?
  • Aegislash
  • Clefable
  • Corviknight
  • Rotom-Wash
I definitely agree with others that have voiced their opinion in this thread that Choice Specs Aegislash is the best set right now. Choice Specs-boosted Steel Beam is an incredible tool that can allow Aegislash to get rid of typical checks like Mandibuzz. This can be very useful for Pokemon like Hydreigon and Dragapult. On top of that, Choice Specs Aegislash is very good at punishing Corviknight, which often tend stay in against Aegislash because they can usually overwhelm it in the long-term thanks to Pressure. Because of its ability to overwhelm typical checks, while still breaking through what it already pressures otherwise very well, make it the best Aegislash set in my eyes.

Life Orb Clefable is undeniably still very powerful. However, the metagame has managed to adapt to it very well, and right now, I definitely prefer specially defensive Clefable. In my opinion, specially defensive Clefable is some of the best glue in the current metagame. It provides you with Stealth Rock support, a solid check to Pokemon like Dragapult and Hydreigon, and Wish is an incredible tool in the current metagame because it allows Pokemon that lack recovery like Rotom-H to check Corviknight with much more consistency, for example.

I really haven't been seeing a lot of Substitute + Bulk Up Corviknight lately, but Taunt + Bulk Up and Defog sets are still amazing. Taunt + Bulk Up Corviknight is one of the best checks to opposing Corviknight and can shut down Pokemon such as Hippowdon and specially defensive Clefable very consistently. Corviknight's also still one of the very few available good hazard removers, as it has a great matchup against most hazard setters. On top of that, it has a bunch of interesting options available that allow it to fit whatever its team needs very well. Iron Head is great to check Clefable and Hatterene better, Bulk Up is cool because it can double as a wincon and can help in pressuring the opposition, while also improving Corviknight's Excadrill matchup, U-turn's great for keeping up momentum, Taunt is also cool for shutting down opposing Corviknight and other passive Pokemon like I mentioned earlier, and Body Press can also be helpful to improve your matchup against Pokemon like Bisharp and Excadrill.

I'm not a super big fan of Rotom-W because it's typically walled by Seismitoad, but a set that I've seen popping up more lately is one I quite like. Substitute + Nasty Plot Rotom-W can abuse Pokemon that would normally check it such as Seismitoad, which can really make it a pain as teams aren't very prepared for it. Electric + Dark coverage can oftentimes be a bit awkward, but it still suffices as a balance breaker that nobody expects pretty well. Beyond that, the Choice Scarf set is still quite decent as well, but I don't think I need to talk about that.

2. How do you feel about these mons? Are they good, not that great, underrated, or overrated?
  • Reuniclus
I would like to talk about Reuniclus in particular because I've been playing around with it a bunch lately and don't think it's acknowledged enough right now.

Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 48 SpD / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock / Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Thunder

This is the set I like the most right now, there's a few interesting things that I'd like to go over. The EV spread is pretty standard, but I like to run 48 Special Defense EVs because it allows Reuniclus to take Kommo-o on reliably one-on-one. When running Thunder, I generally prefer using Psyshock instead of Stored Power, as I got annoyed at falling behind Galarian Darmanitan and Dragapult a lot of the time when running Stored Power, and it still gives you an upperhand against other Calm Mind users. Thunder is a great option right now because it allows Reuniclus to lure Mandibuzz, which is great for Pokemon like Hydreigon and Dragapult. I also think Shadow Ball has some merit right now in order to pressure Aegislash.

Reuniclus is often disregarded as a worse Hatterene, but its much better natural bulk, access to Recover, and ability to lure typical checks like Mandibuzz, which can be very useful for Pokemon like Dragapult and Hydreigon definitely give it merit over Hatterene on teams.
 

Ruft

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Won OST Predictions
1. What do you believe are the best sets for the following mons?
  • Aegislash
  • Clefable
  • Corviknight
  • Dragapult
  • Hatterene
  • Kommo-o
  • Rotom-Wash
  • Rotom-Heat
  • Tyranitar
Aegislash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Steel Beam
- Close Combat
Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Moonlight
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog
- U-turn
Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 96 HP / 16 Def / 184 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Disable
Hatterene @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Mystical Fire
- Trick Room
Kommo-o @ Throat Spray
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Clangorous Soul
- Clanging Scales
- Flamethrower
- Flash Cannon
Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 44 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Will-O-Wisp
Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Nasty Plot
- Will-O-Wisp
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Low Kick
Don't have time right now to add explanations but most of these should be pretty clear.
 
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1.
Aegislash's best set doesn't really seem like special specs or physical SD. Mixed is probably better due to having more options.

King's Shield brings in a lot of 50/50s to the opposing player and allows the user to reset shield form to tank another hit (if the HP is high enough) and dish out another strong strong hit. It also allows you to weaken choiced dracovish & choiced darm-g while also easing predictions for the following turn. Aegislash is not top dog so, you can't run whatever powerful set it has or else you'll get run over by Darm-G, Dracovish, Dragapult, Clefable (Clef's speedy set can be a problem if you're in sword form or have been slightly chipped), and Rotom-Heat. King's Shield is one part of the set that helps alleviate the problem.
Shadow Sneak is great to use against all the fast mons that are running around in the tier. Take for instance dishing out 47.3-55.5% to Dragapult with minimum investment in Attack. (40 Attack & Life Orb you deal 62.4 - 73.8%.) It's also great for picking off weakened fast threats / set-up sweepers.

The last two moves would be Shadow Ball & Flash Cannon due to Shadow Ball being the stronger STAB option over Shadow Claw. This set can come in handy throughout the entirety of the match while, Choice Specs has to be used on predicted switches and you still have to worry about choice locks and faster mons. Still, Mixed & Specs still have to worry about SpDf Pressure Corviknight and Snorlax.

Clefable's best set in my opinion is the Speedy LO set w/ 3 Attacks. Although players have adapted to this set, it's still a menace due to how much pressure it can put on most bulky cores with Fire Blast + Moonblast. Rotom-Heat gets easily chipped, especially if you're running this mon with Scarf Darmanitan-Galar. Being able to outspeed and KO Banded Crawduant can come in clutch too. Maybe I'm biased on this one but, the results don't lie.

Dragapult's best set would probably be a tie between Specs & sub Dragon Dance. Sub + DD can get past many fat mons like Corsola-G, non-bulk up SpDf Corviknight, and Toxapex (Phantom goes through Baneful Bunker). Substitute is also great for bypassing sucker punches from Bisharp & Cinderace.

Corviknight's best set in my opinion is SpDf Pressure + Bulk Up. Corviknight can live so many Super Effective hits that are non-STAB from powerful mons like Dragapult, Clefable, and Hatterene; it's ridiculous. After just one bulk up you take 58.5-69% from Boots Cinderace's Pyroball (which means you can pressure it out if you get enough low rolls or a miss). This set can 6-0 unsuspecting teams with minimal support. The only downside is that this set is not as splashable as the Defog Support set.

2.
Bisharp, Excadrill, Toxtricity, & Snorlax are underrated. Bisharp and Excadrill are top tier. Toxtricity is a great stallbreaker with useful set-up in shift gear for late game. Snorlax is a solid pivot for Special Attackers without being passive.
Grimmsnarl, Mamoswine, Milotic and Reuniclus are good mons.
Cinderace, Flareon, Gastrodon, Jellicent, Xatu, and Dracozolt are overrated. Dracozolt's Hustle ability is luck reliant for extra damage. Cinderace can sometimes be easily taken advantage by Dugtrio, Dragapult, and Darm-G. Gastrodon is outclassed by Seismitoad's role compression. Jellicent has trouble checking what it wants to beat like Darm-G (banded 2HKOs) and Dracovish (banded crunch 2HKOs); also outclassed by Seismitoad. Flareon is outclassed by Rotom-Heat and Arcanine. Xatu doesn't switch-in to anything that well, I barely see anyone use it & I definitely don't want to use it; if you want a magic bouncer use Hatterene since it's not passive at all, has better bulk, and can trick room sweep.

3.
Not surprised, except for Barraskewda. Barraskewda is so fast and hits so hard with amazing coverage. I actually don't know why it isn't used more often.
 
Queenly Majesty blocks priority in singles as well. You're right in that it does not get Knock Off, but Queenly Majesty is the preferred ability as it grants Tsareena immunity to priority attacks and Prankster.

I got a little bored and felt like creating some questions for discussion that you all can answer to your heart's content:

1. What do you believe are the best sets for the following mons?
  • Aegislash
  • Clefable
  • Corviknight
  • Dragapult
  • Hatterene
  • Kommo-o
  • Rotom-Wash
  • Rotom-Heat
  • Tyranitar
2. How do you feel about these mons? Are they good, not that great, underrated, or overrated?
  • Bisharp
  • Cinderace
  • Dracozolt
  • Excadrill
  • Flareon
  • Gastrodon
  • Gengar
  • Grimmsnarl
  • Jellicent
  • Mamoswine
  • Milotic
  • Reuniclus
  • Snorlax
  • Toxtricity
  • Xatu
3. These mons seem to have fallen off a bit in the post-dynamax metagame. What do you think?
  • Barraskewda
  • Ditto
  • Gyarados
  • Hawlucha
  • Togekiss
Ditto
Pretty much back to being ditto as we always knew it. Its a crutch that can revenge kill a sweeper or sweep itself with the boost, but without dynamax it can't get more boost nor can it break its choice lock.

I remember most of its play in previous gens was due to some shedinja+mega sableye stall that ditto did a really good job as a scout for, but without good magic bouncers (unless you consider running xatu and espeon a viable replacement to mega eye.) I don't see it having a real niche beyond being an anti-setup crutch.

Aegislash
Really surprising how strong specs/band Aegislash is. If you told somebody back in gen 6 that specs/band could put it work they'd probably laugh, but this gen it works better than most of his other sets. The scariest thing with aegislash is even thought it may have a best set, its not the only good set, you can blueball a lot of pokemon with band/mixed LO once specs is the standard. I don't think aegislash is broken at all atm, but it is somewhat scary scouting sets even if there are switchins since you're gambling special defensive or physically defensive walls to scout.

I'm curious to know what the Flareon set is. I see discussion for it but all I see is 'wish good yes'.

I'm surprised nobody mentions Centiskorch anymore, its a pretty decent check into clefable especially since it can knock off potential switchins that flareon can't do much to (such as dragapult) and has decent duel stabs and coverage (leech life for hydreigon, power whip for waters) while abusing mystical fire and ignoring unaware since fire lash reduces clefable's stats instead of boosting your own. Centi has better HP and defense too, only thing its lacking is reliable recovery in morning sun or wish, and its 4x weak to rocks rather than 2x but boots fix that anyway.
 
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