Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Usage Stats in post #581]

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Queenly Majesty blocks priority in singles as well. You're right in that it does not get Knock Off, but Queenly Majesty is the preferred ability as it grants Tsareena immunity to priority attacks and Prankster.

I got a little bored and felt like creating some questions for discussion that you all can answer to your heart's content:

1. What do you believe are the best sets for the following mons?
  • Aegislash
  • Clefable
  • Corviknight
  • Dragapult
  • Hatterene
  • Kommo-o
  • Rotom-Wash
  • Rotom-Heat
  • Tyranitar
2. How do you feel about these mons? Are they good, not that great, underrated, or overrated?
  • Bisharp
  • Cinderace
  • Dracozolt
  • Excadrill
  • Flareon
  • Gastrodon
  • Gengar
  • Grimmsnarl
  • Jellicent
  • Mamoswine
  • Milotic
  • Reuniclus
  • Snorlax
  • Toxtricity
  • Xatu
3. These mons seem to have fallen off a bit in the post-dynamax metagame. What do you think?
  • Barraskewda
  • Ditto
  • Gyarados
  • Hawlucha
  • Togekiss
That's all from me for now. Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and I sincerely hope you all have a wonderful time.
I'm not going to answer all of these, but I genuinely think that Sub Bulk Up is easily Corviknight's best set. Sure, it doesn't offer the sheer utility that the defensive set does, but it's still an incredibly potent set that surprisingly few teams are equipped to deal with. Its' effectiveness vs. fat teams is especially useful in a team where balance and bulky offense are the best playstyles, especially since it can use Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Toxapex, and even Tauntless Corviknight as setup bait.

It also pairs with those two exceedingly well, helping to beat/stall out Pokemon like Hatterene and Reuniclus that give those two trouble, and creating an excellent defensive core that's incredibly splashable, Granted, I haven't tested the other sets nearly as much as I've tested Sub Bulk Up, but it just has so much going for it in this metagame that I'm inclined to regard it as Corviknight's best set. Though that being said, it isn't AS good as it was in Dynamic meta
 
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Queenly Majesty blocks priority in singles as well. You're right in that it does not get Knock Off, but Queenly Majesty is the preferred ability as it grants Tsareena immunity to priority attacks and Prankster.

I got a little bored and felt like creating some questions for discussion that you all can answer to your heart's content:

1. What do you believe are the best sets for the following mons?
  • Aegislash
  • Clefable
  • Corviknight
  • Dragapult
  • Hatterene
  • Kommo-o
  • Rotom-Wash
  • Rotom-Heat
  • Tyranitar
2. How do you feel about these mons? Are they good, not that great, underrated, or overrated?
  • Bisharp
  • Cinderace
  • Dracozolt
  • Excadrill
  • Flareon
  • Gastrodon
  • Gengar
  • Grimmsnarl
  • Jellicent
  • Mamoswine
  • Milotic
  • Reuniclus
  • Snorlax
  • Toxtricity
  • Xatu
3. These mons seem to have fallen off a bit in the post-dynamax metagame. What do you think?
  • Barraskewda
  • Ditto
  • Gyarados
  • Hawlucha
  • Togekiss
That's all from me for now. Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and I sincerely hope you all have a wonderful time.
I feel it is a tie between Sub Disable & Choice Specs. Both of its sets are very potent on their respective builds. I am one to personally lean towards Sub Disable Dragapult due to my affinity for the balance archetype.

Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator
Happiness: 160
EVs: 96 HP / 16 Def / 184 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Disable
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex

This set allows Dragapult to fulfill a unique role on balance. Between Disable, Will-o-Wisp, and Hex it has enough power to break down fatter team cores. When paired with Pokemon like Will-o-Wisp, Toxic (Spikes) Toxapex, and/or Thunder Wave Ferrothorn, this set can become a nuisance for teams that don't have a dedicated cleric. Which are hard to come by atm with there being no Heal Bell Pokemon and limited Pokemon who can use Aromatherapy (Clefable being the "best" user of it).

On a side tangent, I believe the EVs to this set can be tailored to better handle certain threats to balance. When paired with Seismitoad or Baneful Bunker Toxapex, you can run Modest Nature with 160 SpA EVs to allow the 2HKO on opposing Toxapex with burn + SR. Toxtricity tends to be a problem for most balance teams and with a spread of 72 HP / 80SpD, Will allow Dragapult to be 3HKO'd by Timid Specs Overdrive from Toxtricity. A little more EVs into bulk such as 104 HP / 72 Def gives Dragapult the opportunity to burn Choice Band Tyranitar. In some instances with wish support, you might be able to get away with a crazier spread /w Bold Nature. Overall, Sub Disable Dragapult is a very handy set that could remain long term with the proper team support and meta knowledge since everyone acts very differently when a Pokemon has a move disabled.

This goes without mention of what possibilities can happen when the Swords of Justice are released, too.

Calcs:
160+ SpA Dragapult Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Black Sludge recovery, and burn damage

+1 252 SpA Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 72 HP / 80 SpD Dragapult: 133-157 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band burned Tyranitar Crunch vs. 104 HP / 72 Def Dragapult: 255-300 (74.3 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, sandstorm damage, and Leftovers recovery
 
Queenly Majesty blocks priority in singles as well. You're right in that it does not get Knock Off, but Queenly Majesty is the preferred ability as it grants Tsareena immunity to priority attacks and Prankster.

I got a little bored and felt like creating some questions for discussion that you all can answer to your heart's content:

1. What do you believe are the best sets for the following mons?
  • Aegislash
  • Clefable
  • Corviknight
  • Dragapult
  • Hatterene
  • Kommo-o
  • Rotom-Wash
  • Rotom-Heat
  • Tyranitar
2. How do you feel about these mons? Are they good, not that great, underrated, or overrated?
  • Bisharp
  • Cinderace
  • Dracozolt
  • Excadrill
  • Flareon
  • Gastrodon
  • Gengar
  • Grimmsnarl
  • Jellicent
  • Mamoswine
  • Milotic
  • Reuniclus
  • Snorlax
  • Toxtricity
  • Xatu
3. These mons seem to have fallen off a bit in the post-dynamax metagame. What do you think?
  • Barraskewda
  • Ditto
  • Gyarados
  • Hawlucha
  • Togekiss
That's all from me for now. Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and I sincerely hope you all have a wonderful time.
Underrated:
* Anybody who's seen my post history knows my opinion on Bisharp, which is that it's an absolute monster in this meta. Stat dropping moves are flying all over the place, and Bisharp has a strong matchup against the game's primary Defog user in Corviknight (save the rare sets that run Body Press).
* Throat spray + shift gear toxtricity isn't a meme, it actually can sweep teams pretty brutally. Its raw damage is way higher than one would expect and not much outspeeds it at +2.

Overrated:
* Jellicent is just not that tanky.
* Cinderace has good stats and cool moves but putting court change on a fragile offensive mon really limits the usefulness of both the move and the Pokemon. I have yet to be a cinderace set that works well either as a cleaner or a wallbreaker, making me wonder what role it really fills on a team.

Post dmax changes:
* Gyarados' usage has fallen away but it's still the best DD sweeper in the meta right now, and on offensive teams it's a great way to seal the game once you've made some dents.
* Hawlucha is still scary and has no trouble blasting offensive teams. It isn't a braindead instant win button anymore but it's certainly strong.
* Togekiss is headed straight for RU.
 
I read Runerigus' Strategy as a Dual Harzard Setter, and I feel this isn't how Runerigus should be used, THIS is how you use Runerigus in OU (And Ubers if you're crazy)

Runerigus @ Focus Sash
Ability: Wandering Spirit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Trick Room
- Memento
- Body Press
- Stealth Rock

The Strategey is to Set Up Trick Room then Cripple the opposing Pokemon with Memento then Switch to Trick Room Attackers such as Hatterene, Coalossal* and Conkeldurr. Focus Sash is to make sure Runerigus is guranteed to set up Trick Room. Body Press is Runerigus' Main Attack Move and Stealth Rock for obvious reasons. Will-O-Wisp can be used over Stealth Rock to cripple the opposing Pokemon.

*I'll show a Coalossal Moveset soon
 
Hoo boy. This one's gonna be a bit of a comprehensive post to respond to TPP's prompt, but here we go:

Aegislash
I'm gonna have to go with either Specs or Band for this one. The Choiced sets absolutely destroy Aegislash's decidedly limited counterplay and make it much, much harder to deal with.

Life Orb Clefable is the best wallbreaker in OU right now and this set has singlehandedly given Flareon and Centiskorch - two specially defensive Fire types - a niche worth noting. This set has virtually no defensive counterplay and offers so much defensive utility whilst being as strong a breaker as it is.

Corviknight
This one's difficult for me, honestly: I think its Defog set (U-turn or Body Press+Brave Bird+Roost+Defog) is probably its best set because it provides teams with probably the only defensive countermeasure to Excadrill in the tier while also acting as one of the tier's very, very few viable Defoggers. A Steel/Flying type in a meta without Magnezone was destined to be amazing and Corviknight is that and so much more although its Bulk Up sets aren't quite as good as they were in the DMax meta.

Dragapult
Sub+Disable is, in my opinion, by far Dragapult's best set in this current metagame. The tier has decidedly limited Ghost resists and the ones that do exist either have no business challenging Dragapult head-on (see: Hydreigon) or absolutely detest being burned by a stray Will-o-Wisp from this thing (see: the underrated Grimmsnarl). Sub+DD deserves an honorable mention for also being able to bluff Sub+Disable extremely well and is insanely difficult to revenge kill after a boost or two. Phantom Force is a shitty move but it actually doesn't suck that much on this set either since it gives Dragapult extra Leftovers recovery and is insanely difficult to switch into after a boost.

Hatterene
Hatterene's OTR set gives me Gen 5 Reuniclus flashbacks: if given a turn to set up it gives Offense an insanely hard time and it hits hard enough on its own to hurt Balance teams a great deal as well. Psychic/Fire coverage is phenomenal as it deals with FerroPex even if it isn't running Calm Mind. Being a fantastic Magic Bouncer helps a great deal, too; its very existence deters recklessly throwing around hazards or status moves.

I haven't used it enough in OU to formulate a truly educated opinion about it, but I think Clangorous Soul+Throat Spray is one of the tier's nastiest sweepers if given a single free turn to set up. Kommo-o absolutely wrecks house if given an opportunity to get a Clangorous Soul off and the OU metagame isn't much better-equipped to defensively check a +2/+1 Kommo-o than UU is. It still has its defensive sets going for it too, bolstered further by having one of the strongest Body Presses in the game, so it has plenty of versatility backing it up.

Rotom-Wash
I think Scarf is still a pretty solid set despite Dynamax's ban; it provides a fast Volt Switch while maintaining good defensive utility and can provide teams with fast status in a pinch.

Rotom-Heat's best set, in my opinion, is probably a fatter Nasty Plot set with Heavy-Duty Boots; Rotom-Wash probably does the Scarf set more justice. I don't really see all the hype for this mon besides acting as our tier's best defensive G-Darm check, and G-Darm probably doesn't have a very long future in OU.

Tyranitar
BandTar may have lost Pursuit this gen, but I still think it hits hard enough with its enormous movepool and great STABs to be arguably its best set in this meta. Very little in this tier avoids the clean 2HKO if the TTar user predicts correctly.

As for the "underrated/not underrated" stuff...

Really good mon and a fantastic HO staple, but Corviknight gives it hell if it's running Body Press. I still think Bisharp is good. I think it's particularly strong on HO teams running suicide lead Mew; they feel like DeoSharp, which I had a ton of fun using in Gen 6.

Cinderace
I think Cinderace is just okay in its pre-Libero state... before factoring in the ridiculousness that is Court Change+Heavy-Duty Boots. Court Change alone is enough to make this mon viable, and when it gets Libero eventually it'll easily be one of the best things in OU even before factoring in that busted-ass Court Change bullshit.

Dracozolt
Dracovish doesn't have a 20% chance per turn of costing you the entire game. It hits like an absolute nuke 80% of the time but Bolt Beak is still a much worse move than Fishious Rend considering that Seismitoad eats it up all the same and there are a few other viable Ground types in this tier compared to the very few Water Absorb users we have. If Hustle didn't make everything Stone Edge levels of accuracy this thing would make Dracovish look pathetic by comparison. Overrated, IMO, but still good enough to have a place in OU.

Excadrill
Speaking of viable Ground types... Yeah, this thing is phenomenal. The degenerate at GF's studio that thought making Rapid Spin give +1 Speed would be a good idea deserves to be fired on the spot for this one. I think it's probably one of the best mons in OU right now - worse than G-Darm for sure and probably worse than Dragapult or Corviknight - but still one of the best. Corviknight is the only thing keeping this thing out of Ubers IMO.

Yeah, it's alright. I think Centiskorch is generally much better, but Flareon having a legitimate niche in OU is absolutely hilarious regardless.

Gastrodon
This is the only true Dracovish counter. It is therefore pretty decent. It gives Rain teams a really hard time, too, which is nice.

Underrated. Nasty Plot makes this thing absolutely nightmarish to fight with a Stall team and Hypnosis gives it a surprising amount of free turns.

Grimmsnarl
I made an extensive post about this thing a while back, but I'd just like to reiterate that I think Grimmsnarl is without a shadow of a doubt the most slept-on threat in OU right now and I think it's almost at the level of stuff like Excadrill. It has a fantastic defensive and offensive typing for the metagame and its utility movepool is downright massive; it is the best Dual Screens setter in the tier, it can function on balance with a defensive RestTalk set, it has excellent offensive sets that also offer plenty of utility, and in general it has so many potentially-viable options that it easily has the highest ceiling out of any mon in this tier right now. Please use Grimmsnarl more; it won't disappoint you.

Jellicent
Yeah, I don't think Jellicent is as good as I thought it would be at the very start of the generation. We have so many other Ghosts that shit on it offensively and a lot of the stuff it wants to check defensively packs coverage to break past it (particularly Dracovish, which punishes its switchins with an absurdly strong Crunch).

Mamoswine
Ice Shard to revenge kill Dragapult and Hydreigon is cute and Ice/Ground is still great offensively, but it can't break past a bunch of stuff nowadays and it's way too slow to do a huge number on most offensive teams without a bunch of support.

...what does this do, exactly? Or, rather, what does it do that Vaporeon or Toxapex cannot do better? I think Jellicent is better than Milotic and I think that mon is also pretty overrated. Is it used for its defensive attributes, or is there some weird offensive tech that's going over my head?

Reuniclus
Don't let Hatterene being amazing distract you from the fact that this thing is still every bit as toxic to fight this gen as it was last gen. If you don't have a Dark type on your team Reuniclus will probably be your worst nightmare; unfortunately, Grimmsnarl utterly shits on it with most sets in my experience.

Lax has some potential but I haven't seen it used whatsoever on the ladder. Having a Ghost immunity in a tier with decidedly limited Ghost immunities is a huge deal and I think Lax therefore has a lot of room for experimentation.
Toxtricity
Specs is overrated; Toxtricity's moves all have immunities and it can be a massive momentum sap if you predict poorly or if your opponent has an Excadrill in the back. Shift Gear+Throat Spray is massively underrated; it utterly fucks up a ton of teams, be they offensive or defensive, if given an opportunity to either set up or fire off a powerful move.

Is this used on Stall? I genuinely don't know what Xatu's role is currently, but I can see it being a downright kickass Magic Bouncer on fat teams in theory.

And, finally, my takes on the victims of a post-Dynamax meta:

Barraskewda
It's definitely worse but I think it's still perfectly viable. I GREATLY recommend running Life Orb over Choice Band to gain the ability to switch up moves; it still packs some nasty coverage and is the platinum standard for speed tiers in this meta, with or without its Swift Swim boost.

Fuck this mon and fuck any meta where it comes even remotely close to reaching 40% usage. I hope it's relegated to being a niche pick since any meta in which Ditto is receiving 40% usage is unbelievably toxic.

Gyarados is the best Dragon Dancer still, albeit by a much smaller margin now than before. It can't wreck your entire team with Max Airstream into Max Geyser into Max Overgrowth anymore, but it's still a phenomenal setup sweeper that is still incredibly challenging to defensively check thanks to its newfound access to Power Whip.

It's still pretty decent, but it probably won't ever reach the peaks it reached in Gen 7 OU or in the Dynamax meta ever again. CC and Brave Bird are extremely useful additions to its movepool that give it a bit more self-reliance as a sweeper.

Shitmon.
 
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I like this one:

Coalossal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 8 Def / 140 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast
- Heavy Slam
- Stealth Rock

Spread is to turn LO Clefable's Thunderbolt into a 4HKO and to 3HKO a Hex-Dragapult with Leftovers; Heavy Slam 2HKOs 252 HP Clefable while Stone Edge breaks Hydreigon's Sub and deals with Rotom-H.

This switches into Clefable, Hatterene, Rotom-H, Corviknight, Ferrothorn and Grimmsnarl all day and wins the 1vs1 match-up against both Substitute Dragapult and Hydreigon. I coupled it with a Defogging Conkeldurr, but if Rapid Spin is desired, it's best to switch Fire Blast to Heat Crash which still deals with the Fairies and dropping Heavy Slam.

Dugtrio destroys this, though.
 
I'm honestly not sure why people keep mentioning TBolt on it when Psychic seems superior to me. Hits Toxicitry, Gengar, and Weezing, and Ground-types are not immune to it. I guess it makes it harder for Corviknight to PP stall you, but that seems barely worth it to me

Bisharp is fantastic in this metagame, the loss of Knock Off is made up for by the fact that there are simply no good answers to its STAB combination anymore (outside of itself which obviously does not count). I have started to run Fire Blast over Substitute on NP Hydreigon just a check it, and I can imagine many players doing the same

I would argue that Court Change is overrated, but Cinderace itself is possibly underrated. The problem with Court Change is that it requires your team to not set up any hazards in order to act as hazard removal, which puts you in a bit of a bind. However this may just be an issue of me not being used to playing with Court Change in mind. Cinderace, however, is great. A fast, strong Fire-type is a very good thing to have in this metagame, and Cinderace is deceptively strong even without a boosting item.

Excadrill is clearly one of the best Pokemon in the tier. It suffers a bit from the recent Seismitoed surge, both as competition as a hazard setter and because it's a hazard setter that checks it decently, however it's still a huge offensive and supportive threat

I find Hatterene to be a bit worse in the post-Dynamax metagame honestly, its bulk is really not that great and it struggles between wanting Leftovers for survivability and Life Orb for power. Still a solid cleaner but not quite as good as it used to be.

Hawlucha lost a bit in the Dynamax ban, but it's still a great sweeper and holds a strong niche as one of the only viable Fighting-types, and by extension, one of the only good checks to Dark-types which are hugely threatening right now. It mostly needs to rely on White Herb + Close Combat for speed boosts, which is an issue, but I don't think it's all that reliant on Unburden, especially when it's already one of the fastest Pokemon in the tier. I feel like it would be interesting to try out something like Choice Band with STABs, U-Turn and Throat Chop. Speaking of which, even though Aegislash is a huge thorn on Hawlucha's side, Throat Chop is at least an option to get past it, even if it sorely misses Roost.

Any thoughts on Conkeldurr? I was initially sceptical about it, but after trying it out I started liking it a lot. It's a great way of revenge killing Darmanitan and Bisharp, and also hits stuff hard with Guts-boosted Facade. Doesn't even miss Knock Off that much since, outside of Corsola, EQ hits Ghosts hard enough anyway.
 
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I like this one:

Coalossal @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 8 Def / 140 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast
- Heavy Slam
- Stealth Rock

Spread is to turn LO Clefable's Thunderbolt into a 4HKO and to 3HKO a Hex-Dragapult with Leftovers; Heavy Slam 2HKOs 252 HP Clefable while Stone Edge breaks Hydreigon's Sub and deals with Rotom-H.

This switches into Clefable, Hatterene, Rotom-H, Corviknight, Ferrothorn and Grimmsnarl all day and wins the 1vs1 match-up against both Substitute Dragapult and Hydreigon. I coupled it with a Defogging Conkeldurr, but if Rapid Spin is desired, it's best to switch Fire Blast to Heat Crash which still deals with the Fairies and dropping Heavy Slam.

Dugtrio destroys this, though.
Heat Crash is better than Fire Blast. Invest more in Def or Atk if you can. Coalossal is actually quite heavy.
 
I'm only playing around 1500 at the moment, but am I way off base using Calm Mind Clefable in this meta?

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 SpDef
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

Obviously it doesn't fill the same role as the Life orb version, but post-dynamax I'm finding that the overall power level in the meta is low enough that she comes in on something like non-gyro ball Ferrothorn and acts as an easy wincon with a couple of Calm Mind boosts. Excadrill, Dracovish and Darmanitan-Galar are all threats - basically physical attackers that 2HKO her or worse - but I really only see this mon getting better as the meta develops. Flamethrower is the preferred secondary move so she can break past the steel types (lacking steel attacks) that she wants to set up on like the aforementioned Ferrothorn, as well as Corviknight. She can do the same to Seismitoad. She is walled by Toxapex, however. Thoughts?
 
I'm only playing around 1500 at the moment, but am I way off base using Calm Mind Clefable in this meta?

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 SpDef
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight

Obviously it doesn't fill the same role as the Life orb version, but post-dynamax I'm finding that the overall power level in the meta is low enough that she comes in on something like non-gyro ball Ferrothorn and acts as an easy wincon with a couple of Calm Mind boosts. Excadrill, Dracovish and Darmanitan-Galar are all threats - basically physical attackers that 2HKO her or worse - but I really only see this mon getting better as the meta develops. Flamethrower is the preferred secondary move so she can break past the steel types (lacking steel attacks) that she wants to set up on like the aforementioned Ferrothorn, as well as Corviknight. She can do the same to Seismitoad. She is walled by Toxapex, however. Thoughts?
I think the two main problems with this are the missed coverage from Thunderbolt as well as Clefable's poor speed. This means that typically even if Clefable gets a chance to set up a CM, it will usually have to take an attack from the opposing Pokemon that switches in to take an expected hit. I think having Thunderbolt to mess with Pelipper, Toxapex, Vaporeon, etc., is considerably more useful.
 
Hi guys, I'm a low ladder noob, but I'd like to offer a few of my opinions on some pokemon I think are underrated.


Vanilluxe has been mentioned previously as a scarfer and as a suicide lead. I've been using the following offensive set:
Vanilluxe @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Protect
- Ice Shard

The set only has ice-type attacks, but it actually isn't as bad as it seems. Of the pokemon commonly seen in OU, only a few pokemon, such as bulky fire types, Sylveon, Aegislash, and Tyranitar can comfortably switch in on a blizzard. Bulky waters like Toxapex can tank a blizzard, but Freeze-dry allows Vanilluxe to beat them 1v1. Protect is pretty useful for getting more chip damage from hail and for scouting moves, which is quite useful for finishing off weakened mons or against stuff like G-Darm and specs Aegislash. Getting in Vanilluxe can be tricky, but I find that bulky water types are generally a pretty safe switch. Finally, this is just theorymon, but when Dracozolt and Dracovish get sand rush, Vanilluxe will be a pretty decent revenge killer against them.


Another pokemon I think is pretty decent is Snorlax. The set I have been running is:

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Darkest Lariat
- Body Slam

Put simply, Snorlax does a very good job at checking most special attackers in the tier, most notably, Specs and SubDisable Dragapult, and LO Clefable. Snorlax needs team support to deal with strong physical attackers, Steel Beam from Aegislash, and Focus Blasts from stuff like Gengar and Hydreigon, but it is otherwise extremely good at what it does.

The final pokemon I would like to mention is Goodra.

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Sludge Wave

Goodra is similar to LO Clefable in that it's role is to break balance. Goodra's main advantage over Clefable is that it has very good special bulk and dragon typing. As a result, Goodra can function as a pivot into pokemon that beat Clefable, such as the Rotom forms, Toxtricity, and Specs Aegislash. In order to play to Goodra's strengths, I think AV Goodra is better than LO Goodra. Goodra gets decent chip damage on the bulky fire types that wall Clefable with Draco Meteor, but it is also walled by Sylveon.
 
Another pokemon I think is pretty decent is Snorlax. The set I have been running is:

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Darkest Lariat
- Body Slam

Put simply, Snorlax does a very good job at checking most special attackers in the tier, most notably, Specs and SubDisable Dragapult, and LO Clefable. Snorlax needs team support to deal with strong physical attackers, Steel Beam from Aegislash, and Focus Blasts from stuff like Gengar and Hydreigon, but it is otherwise extremely good at what it does.
I think Snorlax should almost always run Thick Fat if it is not running a berry, as this allows it to soft check Galarian Darmanitan, as well as faring better against Rotom-H, Cinderace (especially those without High Jump Kick) and in general Pokémon that run Fire or Ice coverage. The argument for Immunity is hardly compelling when Toxic is relatively rare right now, Snorlax carries Rest anyway and it doesn't really want to switch into or 1v1 the the likes of Toxapex.
 
Has anyone tried out DD Mew yet? Mew itself is far underused right now but this DD set in particular is quite fearsome as it’s hard to wall with the right support, for people expecting it to be a SR setter they’re in for a nasty surprise.

Mew @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Synchronise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Psychic Fangs
- Play Rough
- Blaze Kick

The coverage moves are for Steel and Dark types.
 
Has anyone tried out DD Mew yet? Mew itself is far underused right now but this DD set in particular is quite fearsome as it’s hard to wall with the right support, for people expecting it to be a SR setter they’re in for a nasty surprise.

Mew @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Synchronise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Psychic Fangs
- Play Rough
- Blaze Kick

The coverage moves are for Steel and Dark types.
If you're trying to hit Steel and Dark-types, I don't see why you're not running a Fighting-type move like Close Combat. Seems much more useful to me than two moves that have a chance of missing. Play Rough and Blaze Kick just seem so subpar as coverage options for a Pokemon like Mew that has such an insane movepool.

If anything, it should be running something like DD/Psychic Fangs/CC, with the last move being Darklest Lariat (to hit G-Corsola which walls this), Power Whip to hit Seismitoad, or something like Substitute to avoid being revenge killed by Sucker Punch. I feel like this set is a bit more viable:

Mew @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Synchronise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Psychic Fangs
- Close Combat
- Substitute
 
If you're trying to hit Steel and Dark-types, I don't see why you're not running a Fighting-type move like Close Combat. Seems much more useful to me than two moves that have a chance of missing. Play Rough and Blaze Kick just seem so subpar as coverage options for a Pokemon like Mew that has such an insane movepool.

If anything, it should be running something like DD/Psychic Fangs/CC, with the last move being Darklest Lariat (to hit G-Corsola which walls this), Power Whip to hit Seismitoad, or something like Substitute to avoid being revenge killed by Sucker Punch. I feel like this set is a bit more viable:

Mew @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Synchronise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Psychic Fangs
- Close Combat
- Substitute
Except you get walled by essentially every relevant Ghost type bar Dragapult.
You really need Darkest Lariat in the 4th slot to hit Aegislash and GCor.
 
mantine.gif

Mantine @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Hurricane
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Just popping in to say that I genuinely believe Mantine is one of the best rain abusers right now. Imagine giving specs Pelipper the speed of Mega Pert and 8 turns of rain; that's this demon. Flying STAB is just as spammable as it's ever been and the fact that almost every common rain check i.e. Seismitoad, Ferrothorn, Jellicent, and Rotom-W are usually running PhysDef to deal with the likes of Dracovish and Barraskewda means that the manta ray is left with an incredibly limited amount of defensive counterplay in the rain. Its stats complement its role perfectly; it's only a little bit weaker than Kingdra was but with a much better STAB combo, incredible natural special bulk, just enough speed to outpace scarfed Darm with a Modest nature, and still more than enough power to OHKO most of offense and murk most of the water resists/immunities that try to switch into it or sponge a hit from it with Hurricane:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mantine Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ferrothorn: 187-222 (53.1 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mantine Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Seismitoad: 270-318 (65.2 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mantine Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 157-186 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mantine Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dracovish: 256-303 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I'm not gonna bother posting calcs for its water moves since mostly everyone here knows how rain operates, but it should be pretty obvious that Surf pretty cleanly 2HKOs fully SpDef Corviknight and Clefable in rain and defensive Rotom-W goes down to two hydro pumps. The fact that it doesn't get trapped by Duggy and is immune to webs is really just icing on the cake. Specs is the most obvious choice set-wise, but I've also seen a LO 3 attacks+Roost set that sounds pretty good in theory for taking advantage of Mantine's aforementioned naturally good bulk and the ability to switch moves, although I've never personally tried it. Definitely pair it with a strong physical wallbreaker *cough*Crawdaunt that can lure in and weaken/remove some of the few checks/pivots that it has.
 
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The meta is just cancer with darm. Every team is weak to it. There is no real way to handle it, let alone handle it and handle other problematic Pokemon.
Yeah I definitely agree, I feel forced to run Rotom-Heat or Rotom-Wash on pretty much every team, along with a Choice Scarfer that is faster than Base 95 which really restricts your options to things like Hydreigon or Cinderace, when there are potentially so many other interesting ones that could be used but are invalidated solely based on the fact they are slower than Darm. I would really like to see a more diverse meta where something like Scarf Lucario is viable, or something like that, but that won't be possible in a meta where Darm is legal. The meta could potentially be so much more diverse and interesting.
 
This is the dilemma when comparing it to Natdex. Darm is still good there, but you legitimately cannot run band because so many things are faster than it with the expanded Pokedex. I agree he's busted in regular OU. It's a symptom of the limited Dex. So many other scarfers outspeed him in NatDex whereas in regular OU, it is one of the bare standard revenge killers.
 
The meta is just cancer with darm. Every team is weak to it. There is no real way to handle it, let alone handle it and handle other problematic Pokemon.
Agreed. If anything that can stand up to it is chipped, he just starts bowling through the entire team. Literally the only way you can beat Scarf Darm lategame is if Icicle Crash misses
 
The meta is just cancer with darm. Every team is weak to it. There is no real way to handle it, let alone handle it and handle other problematic Pokemon.
Just lead with your own Darm and click Flare Blitz turn 1 against the Darm your opponent inevitably led off with turn 1. If you're gonna lose to your opponent's Darm at least you can blame bad luck.

EDIT: Please don't actually do this.
 
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