To lay the controversy/rumors to rest, I transferred a Roost Kyurem over, and it works.
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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion v3 (Usage in post #251)
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
To lay the controversy/rumors to rest, I transferred a Roost Kyurem over, and it works.
I see this thing mostly benefiting from Home.
Defensive sets get a huge boon in Toxic, helping with passivity. They also get Soft-Boiled, which frees up a slot, though Wish-passing might still see some usage. LO Clef also gets a huge boon in Soft-Boiled, being able to heal much more freely now then it could w/ Moonlight. Unfortunately, the arrival of the musketeer trio is not necessarily good news. Specs Keldeo w/ Hydro Pump absolutely smashes this thing, 2hkoing max spdef iirc, Terrakion also 2hko's w/ band but idt Virizon is really gonna be all that great in this metagame.
I'm pretty sure this thing absolutely hates Home. While the addition of Toxic is nice, it can't really fit it into it's moveslot, unless you want to give up your STAB, or your ability to U-Turn out. It also has increased competition as a Defogger, w/ stuff like Hydreigon now able to run defensive sets.
It also hates a lot more getting reliable recovery, no longer to wear down as much as easily w/ U-Turn (looking at you Hydreigon).
Most covered this already, Sub Toxic will probably just push it over the edge.
Increased Knock Off usage is absolutely terrible for it. 'nuff said.
skipping dugtrio cuz it's probably gonna get the boot anyways
Bulky sets will probably see some usage now, suicide leads also get a new toy to play with.
Defensive sets are definitely going to come back, now along w/ it's offensive prowess, it also has the ability to heal itself. That being said, it'll be hard-pressed to fit it on offensive sets, Sub-NP, needs those 2 slots, you obv can't put it on scarf (or can you?) and nothing on NP LO can really afford to taken off, except maybe Draco Meteor, but you really need that to nail stuff like Mandibuzz. Now with the increased variety, I easily see hydreigon => S if it weren't for Terrakion entering the scence.
All the formes are gonna have a field day w/ toxic, 'nuff said.
Now that it got Knock Off back, this thing is gonna be great, easily moving up to A+.
loves knock off, but dracovish is basically history so it might just stay in A.
literally tosses everything not named toxapex around
I could potentially see it making OU? I mean, it's kinda weird cuz it's in a great speed stat, but it also doesn't hit too hard w/o Band.
This thing is prob gonna be trash, same as last gen
iirc it's the fastest unboosted threat in the metagame, and is easily the newest offensive beast, what between it's new Play Rough, Plasma Fists, Grass Knot to hit Toad, and loss of HP Ice isn't too bad given chomp, gliscor, and lando-t are all gone.
While it did get weather ball, there's no heatran for it to abuse w/ earth power ;-;
It's still the core of sun teams, so it'll definitely see usage in OU.
Shell Smash is great, but it's offensive stats are just mediocre.
Don't see this doing too well, it's competing w/ Cloyster in general.
Will kanto slowbro (water/psychic) be in? From what I hear regional forms for existing galar mons are in but idk if that applies to galarian slowpoke -> slowbro -> kanto slowbro.
If so, I think it may have some potential as another option for a bulky water.
I am very interested in celebi as well due to the removal of pursuit. I think it has a lot of tricks up its sleeve and we do not have very many common bulky grasses other than ferrothorn that are common in the metagame. Especially with keldeo coming back, it could definitely see some play.
If so, I think it may have some potential as another option for a bulky water.
I am very interested in celebi as well due to the removal of pursuit. I think it has a lot of tricks up its sleeve and we do not have very many common bulky grasses other than ferrothorn that are common in the metagame. Especially with keldeo coming back, it could definitely see some play.
At the moment, (Kanto) Slowpoke cannot be transferred to Galar, and neither can its evolutions. You'll have to wait for the upcoming DLC for them.
they cant be used in ranked, because the rules for the actual season cant be changed anymore
but they can be used in every other mode without any problem
So.. what actually switches in on Terrakion? LO STABs EQ Quick Attack? Or if you aren't scared of duggy just band it and roll a dice. Of course we all know Duggy is destined for Ubers anyway so be man and band it.
Pretty sure all of Terra's counters were Thanos snapped. Gl everyone, the Air Balloon Aegislash meta has arrived.
Pretty sure all of Terra's counters were Thanos snapped. Gl everyone, the Air Balloon Aegislash meta has arrived.
Y'all are sleeping on Teleport Clefable, I think defensive sets will benefit greatly from immediately swinging momentum in your favor. I've been spamming teleport Xatu in RU, and damn is that move good. Outside of that, Softboiled is good, Unaware will be nice for Hydrei, etc etc
I can't wait for the fun to be had with Eject Pack Ninetales+Dugtrio to snipe Toxapex! Then what's gonna stop Growth Venu (outside of bulletproof Kommo)? Regardless, I think Weather Ball Venu, in a meta without Heatran, could make Sun a viable archetype. Excited to try it out.
Roost/Sub/Freeze Dry/Earth Power sounds devastating against bulkier teams. With pressure you can probably beat defensive Corvi! Dragon Dance physical variants might also have some merit, but special sets look very fun to pay with.
If Keldeo becomes popular I could see Jellicent becoming popular as a response, it's also a Vish check so there's more to it than just Keldeo walling.
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I don't really see Jellicent being popular w/ Pex around, which is by far the best Keldeo counter (unless it got some coverage i don't know about?)
Y'all are sleeping on Teleport Clefable, I think defensive sets will benefit greatly from immediately swinging momentum in your favor. I've been spamming teleport Xatu in RU, and damn is that move good. Outside of that, Softboiled is good, Unaware will be nice for Hydrei, etc etc
I can't wait for the fun to be had with Eject Pack Ninetales+Dugtrio to snipe Toxapex! Then what's gonna stop Growth Venu (outside of bulletproof Kommo)? Regardless, I think Weather Ball Venu, in a meta with Heatran, could make Sun a viable archetype. Excited to try it out.
Roost/Sub/Freeze Dry/Earth Power sounds devastating against bulkier teams. With pressure you can probably beat defensive Corvi! Dragon Dance physical variants might also have some merit, but special sets look very fun to pay with.
If Keldeo becomes popular I could see Jellicent becoming popular as a response, it's also a Vish check so there's more to it than just Keldeo walling.
Also i didn't realize Clefable got Teleport but I still stand by my decision that Clef will worsen cuz of Home, and so will Corv. Hydreigon will probably be the best mon or maybe not cuz Terrakion enters the scene now.
and they gave ddance to kyub, a mon w/ 170 atk and 95 spe which is outstanding in this tier. with enough boosts it might just pull off a icicile spear set but it might be too unreliable
Jsyk Corviknight doesn't get Toxic since it wasn't in Gen 7.
I'm pretty sure this thing absolutely hates Home. While the addition of Toxic is nice, it can't really fit it into it's moveslot
To not make this a one liner, I'm pretty interested in toying around with Unova Darm. As others have stated, it looks to be a fairly potent wallbreaker since Fire-types aren't the most prepped for at the moment. I'm excited to try out Band and Belly Drum sets personally, as although they almost definitely won't be as potent as Scarf, they do seem like interesting options that turn Darm from a decently potent revenge-killer/offensive pivot to a deadly wallbreaker, especially given the right prediction.
EDIT:
Weavilie got Knock Off back, so it's back to having an incredibly potent non-memey Dark Stab! Although it hates the loss of Pursuit, Knock Off coming back is still a massive buff for both Choice and SD sets alike, since the extra power and utility really helps.
A few of my own thoughts here:
Nope. Nope nope nope. Get this shit out of here.
Clefable has been strictly buffed in every possible sense as a result of Home's release. Not only are all its Magic Guard sets directly improved courtesy of Soft-Boiled being objectively better than Moonlight, but at long last it got Unaware back to allow it to function as a solid Hydreigon check. Clef is easily one of the best mons in the tier as is and with these buffs I think it'll probably be the absolute queen of OU once the meta settles and the broken elements are dealt with accordingly.
I'm absolutely terrified that Toxic will push Aegislash over the edge once again. None of Aegislash's decidedly limited checks have any business eating up a Toxic if they predict incorrectly, and Toxic acts as a powerful option for Choiced and non-Choiced sets alike due to its ability to fill in the holes in Aegislash's limited movepool.
Well, OU's melanoma has finally gotten Toxic back. This further improves its role as a dedicated trapper by leaving something with a pretty nasty present after it's already done its job of trapping and eliminating a bunch of stuff.
An absolute threat. Jirachi may not appreciate all the Ghosts and Knock Off spam everywhere, but Jirachi is always good simply because it's either really good at being a Choice Scarfer or Rocker or pretty good at doing basically anything under the sun.
EASILY the most exciting addition to the metagame, IMO. Melmetal is a terrifying breaker that just clicks its buttons and blows gaping holes in your opponent's team, and fat teams tend to have a really hard time dealing with it. I'm really interested to see how it fares in this meta considering how good it was in NatDex.
Drei gets new options. New options are always objectively better. Drei can now utilize more defensively-oriented sets and has another option to increase its longevity against slower teams (or to potentially just run Life Orb on a 2-attacks set so it can break past Unaware Clefable).
Ohhhhh baby. While I think the addition of Toxic benefits Rotom-Heat the most by a country mile, let's not forget that Rotom-Wash and Rotom-Mow also get stuff out of this. Toxic is obviously the best re-addition to their movepool, but Defog gives them more options. And like I said: more options make for an objectively superior mon.
These three stand out as the mons that best utilize Knock Off as an offensive support move instead of just a support move. It's a huge power boost for Weavile and Bisharp but Conk getting Knock Off is an absolutely massive deal, as it now regains valuable utility and powerful coverage alike all in a single moveslot. I've been looking forward to Defog+Knock Off for a very long time and it has finally arrived.
I can also see Smack Down having some potential luring potential against Corviknight but that's such a gimmick compared to the very real threat of removing its Leftovers instead.
Terrakion would go to town on a Duggyless metagame. 108 Speed is fantastic once again, and Terrakion packs a brutal offensive typing and brutal offensive statline to break virtually everything in the tier clean in two. Aegislash being good doesn't really help it TOO much, though.
I was already a bit harsh on Togekiss in the post-Dynamax metagame, but with Defog and Roost back on the menu Togekiss genuinely has a plethora of utility options at its disposal once again, letting it better function as a great tank.
EXTREMELY sleeper threat, IMO. Weather Ball+Chlorophyll finally being compatible is God's gift to Sun teams everywhere and Venusaur even adds Earth Power to its impressive repertoire of coverage options, ensuring that in the not-so-distant future Sun teams will have something capable of muscling past the best Sun counters out there. In a meta with Dugtrio this thing benefits extremely well from the potentially-absurd core of Eject Pack Ninetales+Dugtrio to lure and eliminate Toxapex since, well... Toxapex is one of two things that has any business coming in on a +2 Life Orb Venusaur. I would put my hands in fire to say that Venusaur is slated to be the best weather-dependent sweeper we've seen since the heyday of Sand Rush Excadrill back in Gen 5. This thing seriously has fucking everything going for it.
Powerful breaker that can check Hydreigon in a pinch due to its crucial Water typing giving it a niche over the other fairies.
Air Slash is a nice addition, but Hidden Power getting removed is a massive PITA for Keldeo since now it's even easier to counter. It gets blanked by a lot of the stuff people run to ensure that their teams don't get mauled by Dracovish and then some more stuff on top of that, but I can see it being quite the threat with the right support.
Freeze-Dry makes this thing impossibly difficult to wall. I can see Kyurem being an OU staple for its ability to break Balance unlike anything else thanks to the insane coverage Freeze-Dry+Earth Power offers, but Ice Beam might still be run because it hits standard Ice-weak targets that much harder.
Keldeo counter? Keldeo counter, plus a Dracovish check, plus a Defogger. Gets prone-boned by the Rotoms but offers a great deal of role compression otherwise, so I can see Mantine having a very respectable niche in this tier now.
Post-testing edits:
- Venusaur is actually that good. It's a bit of a pain to support but in this meta it's able to steamroll past most teams when paired with Dugtrio support. Do note that it cannot OHKO standard Dragapult sets from full, though, so Dragapult can check it in a pinch.
- KB is as broken as everyone expected it to be and then some. This thing and Clefable were on almost all of my opponents' teams in about 20 games as well as on my own team I've been experimenting with, and virtually every single game involving KB involved both of us playing like absolute degenerates to prevent it from getting a single free turn to set up and automatically losing if it got said free turn unless there was a very healthy Melmetal in the back. Melmetal is the only thing that can reliably survive an interaction with Kyurem-Black since it has a chance of just 5-hitting its way past most defensive shit. This mon is fucking unbelievable and is even more of an issue than Dugtrio at the moment.
- Clefable is literally everywhere. This thing is at OR/AS levels of viability right now and offers so much to any sort of team archetype it finds itself on.
- Whenever I see KB I usually see Dugtrio paired with it. Melmetal is KB's only real defensive answer and Dugtrio either kills it outright or dents it severely enough to where it can't even check KB anymore.
- Have I mentioned Dugtrio enough in this edit? The mon is absolutely fucking stupid and this has become especially true in this new meta courtesy of the absolute monstrosities it's able to support.
Nope. Nope nope nope. Get this shit out of here.
Clefable has been strictly buffed in every possible sense as a result of Home's release. Not only are all its Magic Guard sets directly improved courtesy of Soft-Boiled being objectively better than Moonlight, but at long last it got Unaware back to allow it to function as a solid Hydreigon check. Clef is easily one of the best mons in the tier as is and with these buffs I think it'll probably be the absolute queen of OU once the meta settles and the broken elements are dealt with accordingly.
I'm absolutely terrified that Toxic will push Aegislash over the edge once again. None of Aegislash's decidedly limited checks have any business eating up a Toxic if they predict incorrectly, and Toxic acts as a powerful option for Choiced and non-Choiced sets alike due to its ability to fill in the holes in Aegislash's limited movepool.
Well, OU's melanoma has finally gotten Toxic back. This further improves its role as a dedicated trapper by leaving something with a pretty nasty present after it's already done its job of trapping and eliminating a bunch of stuff.
An absolute threat. Jirachi may not appreciate all the Ghosts and Knock Off spam everywhere, but Jirachi is always good simply because it's either really good at being a Choice Scarfer or Rocker or pretty good at doing basically anything under the sun.
EASILY the most exciting addition to the metagame, IMO. Melmetal is a terrifying breaker that just clicks its buttons and blows gaping holes in your opponent's team, and fat teams tend to have a really hard time dealing with it. I'm really interested to see how it fares in this meta considering how good it was in NatDex.
Drei gets new options. New options are always objectively better. Drei can now utilize more defensively-oriented sets and has another option to increase its longevity against slower teams (or to potentially just run Life Orb on a 2-attacks set so it can break past Unaware Clefable).
Ohhhhh baby. While I think the addition of Toxic benefits Rotom-Heat the most by a country mile, let's not forget that Rotom-Wash and Rotom-Mow also get stuff out of this. Toxic is obviously the best re-addition to their movepool, but Defog gives them more options. And like I said: more options make for an objectively superior mon.
These three stand out as the mons that best utilize Knock Off as an offensive support move instead of just a support move. It's a huge power boost for Weavile and Bisharp but Conk getting Knock Off is an absolutely massive deal, as it now regains valuable utility and powerful coverage alike all in a single moveslot. I've been looking forward to Defog+Knock Off for a very long time and it has finally arrived.
I can also see Smack Down having some potential luring potential against Corviknight but that's such a gimmick compared to the very real threat of removing its Leftovers instead.
Terrakion would go to town on a Duggyless metagame. 108 Speed is fantastic once again, and Terrakion packs a brutal offensive typing and brutal offensive statline to break virtually everything in the tier clean in two. Aegislash being good doesn't really help it TOO much, though.
I was already a bit harsh on Togekiss in the post-Dynamax metagame, but with Defog and Roost back on the menu Togekiss genuinely has a plethora of utility options at its disposal once again, letting it better function as a great tank.
EXTREMELY sleeper threat, IMO. Weather Ball+Chlorophyll finally being compatible is God's gift to Sun teams everywhere and Venusaur even adds Earth Power to its impressive repertoire of coverage options, ensuring that in the not-so-distant future Sun teams will have something capable of muscling past the best Sun counters out there. In a meta with Dugtrio this thing benefits extremely well from the potentially-absurd core of Eject Pack Ninetales+Dugtrio to lure and eliminate Toxapex since, well... Toxapex is one of two things that has any business coming in on a +2 Life Orb Venusaur. I would put my hands in fire to say that Venusaur is slated to be the best weather-dependent sweeper we've seen since the heyday of Sand Rush Excadrill back in Gen 5. This thing seriously has fucking everything going for it.
Powerful breaker that can check Hydreigon in a pinch due to its crucial Water typing giving it a niche over the other fairies.
Air Slash is a nice addition, but Hidden Power getting removed is a massive PITA for Keldeo since now it's even easier to counter. It gets blanked by a lot of the stuff people run to ensure that their teams don't get mauled by Dracovish and then some more stuff on top of that, but I can see it being quite the threat with the right support.
Freeze-Dry makes this thing impossibly difficult to wall. I can see Kyurem being an OU staple for its ability to break Balance unlike anything else thanks to the insane coverage Freeze-Dry+Earth Power offers, but Ice Beam might still be run because it hits standard Ice-weak targets that much harder.
Keldeo counter? Keldeo counter, plus a Dracovish check, plus a Defogger. Gets prone-boned by the Rotoms but offers a great deal of role compression otherwise, so I can see Mantine having a very respectable niche in this tier now.
Post-testing edits:
- Venusaur is actually that good. It's a bit of a pain to support but in this meta it's able to steamroll past most teams when paired with Dugtrio support. Do note that it cannot OHKO standard Dragapult sets from full, though, so Dragapult can check it in a pinch.
- KB is as broken as everyone expected it to be and then some. This thing and Clefable were on almost all of my opponents' teams in about 20 games as well as on my own team I've been experimenting with, and virtually every single game involving KB involved both of us playing like absolute degenerates to prevent it from getting a single free turn to set up and automatically losing if it got said free turn unless there was a very healthy Melmetal in the back. Melmetal is the only thing that can reliably survive an interaction with Kyurem-Black since it has a chance of just 5-hitting its way past most defensive shit. This mon is fucking unbelievable and is even more of an issue than Dugtrio at the moment.
- Clefable is literally everywhere. This thing is at OR/AS levels of viability right now and offers so much to any sort of team archetype it finds itself on.
- Whenever I see KB I usually see Dugtrio paired with it. Melmetal is KB's only real defensive answer and Dugtrio either kills it outright or dents it severely enough to where it can't even check KB anymore.
- Have I mentioned Dugtrio enough in this edit? The mon is absolutely fucking stupid and this has become especially true in this new meta courtesy of the absolute monstrosities it's able to support.
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I can't wait to try out Freeze Dry Normal Kyurem.
The Musketeers are going to change the metagame a lot.
I hate that toxic is back
The Musketeers are going to change the metagame a lot.
I hate that toxic is back
Deleted User 229847
Banned deucer.
I feel like this shitty meta is getting worse and worse. Toxic, hbell/aromatherapy and knock off were removed from most pokemons and it was a wise choice, now we are back to the same shit. Truly a loathsome meta, let’s hope for some swift bans.
Aight, first thoughts
I am really hype for Melmetal, it's absurdly bulky on the physical side, but and stuff like CB can hit like an absolute truck on almost anything that isn't a resist. I've also tried AV in which to be completely honest, isn't really good in Natdex, but with a much lower power level here I can see it being great and very useful if you want somewhat of a SpDef tank.
Clefable has basically only gotten better from this, even though stuff like Melmetal & Jirachi are in the tier, it has access to Soft-Boiled again and Unaware. Now Clef is probably going to be significantly more splashable and annoying than it was pre-home now that it has even better recovery and can fit onto stall. I can't see this not being the very best mon here.
Ughhh. So, Kyurem-B now has DD and Icicle Spear; that is dangerous, because of the fact that it has DD + Teravolt it now has much less counterplay bar priority or maybe Melmetal. Also considering that this mon is quickbanned in Natdex, which has significantly more counterplay to things than GalarDex will make this severely will make this an issue from day 1.
Welp, Aegislash got Toxic back. Now, I don't know how much it will effect the tier, because Aegislash has been greatly buffed from this, adding to its unpredictability, but now with Toxic beating passive mons that can check it, I'm pretty sure it will effect the tier quite a bit now.
I am really hype for Melmetal, it's absurdly bulky on the physical side, but and stuff like CB can hit like an absolute truck on almost anything that isn't a resist. I've also tried AV in which to be completely honest, isn't really good in Natdex, but with a much lower power level here I can see it being great and very useful if you want somewhat of a SpDef tank.
Clefable has basically only gotten better from this, even though stuff like Melmetal & Jirachi are in the tier, it has access to Soft-Boiled again and Unaware. Now Clef is probably going to be significantly more splashable and annoying than it was pre-home now that it has even better recovery and can fit onto stall. I can't see this not being the very best mon here.
Ughhh. So, Kyurem-B now has DD and Icicle Spear; that is dangerous, because of the fact that it has DD + Teravolt it now has much less counterplay bar priority or maybe Melmetal. Also considering that this mon is quickbanned in Natdex, which has significantly more counterplay to things than GalarDex will make this severely will make this an issue from day 1.
Welp, Aegislash got Toxic back. Now, I don't know how much it will effect the tier, because Aegislash has been greatly buffed from this, adding to its unpredictability, but now with Toxic beating passive mons that can check it, I'm pretty sure it will effect the tier quite a bit now.
Back when Melmetal was first released, I did offensive and defensive calcs of it versus every S and A ranked OU Pokemon. Keep in mind that the following was written a while ago. At the time, we were in the USUM meta, so some of this information won't be relevant anymore because we no longer have megas, Z-moves, or a chunk of these Pokemon in the Galar dex (yet).
Despite all this, the following still gives a really good indication of how much damage output Melmetal has and how many hits it can take, which can be applied to its matchup versus the current SS OU Pokemon.
Despite all this, the following still gives a really good indication of how much damage output Melmetal has and how many hits it can take, which can be applied to its matchup versus the current SS OU Pokemon.
Melmetal has equivalent physical bulk to 252/144+ Arceus and just barely less special bulk than 0/0 Jirachi. It has just barely less power than Adamant Landorus-T.
Melmetal @ Choice Band / Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Superpower / Earthquake
12 Speed creeps Toxapex, though a little more can be invested to creep further at the cost of making the occasional roll slightly less favorable. Alternatively, with Magnezone support, a Sub 3 Attacks set with Leftovers could also be very effective as it eases prediction and helps prevent revenge killing as Melmetal is so slow.
Below are Melmetal's matchups versus all of the S and A ranked USUM OU Pokemon (at the time of writing this). When I say something fails to kill Melmetal, that means even with max rolls. When I say Melmetal kills something, that means even with min rolls. If I don't mention hazards in the calc, then the calc considers no hazards. These calcs are using the above spread and moveset (CB = Choice Band).
Heatran: 0 Special Attack fails to OHKO with Magma Storm and dies to EQ. Superpower OHKOs 0 bulk Heatran after Rocks. 252 Timid Magma Storm has a small chance to not OHKO. Keep in mind Magma Storm's accuracy.
Landorus-T: 252 Jolly crit EQ fails to kill. -1 non-CB Ice Punch OHKOs 0 bulk Lando and almost always OHKOs Landos with some bulk (always OHKOs after rocks). Defensive Lando's EQ has a ~1/3 chance to not 2HKO, and then has a ~2/3 chance of dying to CB Ice Punch (which has the same power as non-Intimidated non-CB Ice Punch).
Mega Alakazam: Has a small chance to live Timid Focus Blast (Modest always kills). -1 non-CB Double Iron Bash OHKOs. Keep in mind Focus Blast's accuracy.
Ferrothorn: Superpower does too much for Ferrothorn to be able to stall with Leech Seed. Ferrothorn beats sets without Sub and Superpower.
Ash-Greninja: In base forme, Specs Hydro Pump fails to OHKO even after 2 layers of Spikes. In Ash forme, Specs Hydro Pump has a 50% chance to OHKO and Specs Dark Pulse fails to OHKO even after 2 layers of Spikes. Base forme and Ash forme have the same bulk and are both OHKOd by non-CB Thunder Punch. Hydro Pump is slightly inaccurate. If it's Waterium-Z Battle Bond, see Protean Greninja below.
Protean Greninja: Hydro Vortex fails to kill even after Rocks and dies to non-CB Thunder Punch. HP Fire 2HKOs and EQ or All-Out Pummeling OHKO in return. From Physical sets, Low Kick almost always 2HKOs but dies to non-CB Double Iron Bash. Greninja's All-Out Pummeling fails to kill after Rocks and 2 layers of Spikes. Z-Dig is as strong as Z-Low Kick.
Magearna: 252 Focus Blast fails to OHKO after Rocks and dies to CB Double Iron Bash. Non-CB Double Iron Bash has a chance to OHKO after a little chip (EQ does less). CB Double Iron Bash OHKOs AV Magearna. Keep in mind Focus Blast's accuracy.
Mega Mawile: +2 Fire Fang fails to OHKO and 92 HP Mawile almost always dies to non-CB Double Iron Bash after only one Spike.
Tangrowth: AV is 2HKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash, and phys def is always 2HKOd after Rocks if no Lefties (if Lefties, 2HKOd most of the time). Tangrowth cannot 3HKO with any move. Sleep Powder or Rocky Helmet + Leech Seed are annoying.
Tapu Bulu: 252 Adamant Z-Superpower fails to kill Melmetal even after a Spike. Nobody uses this spread, but 252/252+ Bulu is still OHKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash.
Tornadus-T: 252 Focus Blast fails to kill even after 2 layers of Spikes and dies in return to non-CB Double Iron Bash. Keep in mind Focus Blast's accuracy. Tornadus-T's All-Out Pummeling OHKOs. Max HP Tornadus-T has a 50% chance to be OHKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash.
Toxapex: SpDef Toxapex is 2HKOd by non-CB Thunder Punch (EQ does more if Melmetal has it). Phys Def Toxapex avoids the 2HKO from non-CB, but CB 2HKOs. Toxapex has to pray Scald burns on the first try and still sometimes loses even if that happens.
Celesteela: Even Phys Def takes too much from Thunder Punch to be able to stall with Leech Seed.
Clefable: 252+ LO Focus Blast fails to OHKO and non-CB Double Iron Bash OHKOs even 252/252+ Clef.
Kartana: Z-Sacred Sword fails to OHKO even after Rocks (CB Sacred Sword does less) and Superpower OHKOs Kartana after Rocks.
Mega Latios: EQ and Psychic both don't 3HKO and Mega Latios dies to non-CB Double Iron Bash after Rocks. If it has HP Fire, that has a chance to not 2HKO.
Magnezone: Modest Specs Thunderbolt fails to kill even after a Spike. Modest Z-Thunderbolt has a 2/3 chance to OHKO. Dies to EQ, and dies to non-CB Superpower after a little chip.
Mega Medicham: HJK and non-CB Double Iron Bash both OHKO, so Mega Medicham wins 90% of the time.
Mega Scizor: Melmetal pretty much cannot beat Mega-Scizor under any circumstances (unless Ice Punch freeze or Thunder Punch paralyze + multiple consecutive full para's), and becomes setup fodder if the Scizor is SD.
Tapu Koko: Specs Tbolt in terrain fails to kill, and bulkier Koko sets are still OHKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash. Z-Wild Charge in terrain fails to kill after 3 layers of Spikes. Dies to Z-Tbolt in Terrain however.
Tapu Lele: non-Specs Focus Blast fails to kill even after Rocks. Burned non-CB Double Iron Bash OHKOs. Z-Psychic in terrain fails to kill even with 3 layers of Spikes.
Volcarona: wins as long as Fire Blast doesn't miss twice, as Melmetal cannot OHKO unless it runs the niche Rock Slide. AV Rock Slide Melmetal most likely won't be a thing, but it wins 1-on-1 though, as Fire Blast doesn't OHKO even after Rocks.
Chansey: non-CB Double Iron Bash does 52-62% (57% average) to 244/252+ Chansey, so can potentially PP stall. Superpower is not enough because Chansey is faster. Chansey loses if Z-Superpower or Choice Band.
Gliscor: EQ followed by crit EQ fails to kill and is OHKOd in return by non-CB Ice Punch.
Hawlucha: Crit HJK fails to kill most of the time. Even after the Defense boost from Electric Seed, is OHKOd by terrain-boosted non-CB Thunder Punch.
Kyurem-B: 252 LO Earth Power fails to kill even after a Spike and is OHKOd in return by non-CB Double Iron Bash.
Mega Latias: HP Fire fails to 2HKO even after 2 layers of Spikes and non-CB Double Iron Bash 2HKOs.
Reuniclus: Phys Def is still 2HKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash. Both the standard Reuniclus spread and this Melmetal spread creep Toxapex, but if Melmetal is faster then it can potentially flinch with Double Iron Bash.
Tyranitar: CB EQ fails to kill Melmetal even after Rocks and 3 layers of Spikes, and is OHKOd back by non-CB Double Iron Bash. Ttar's CB Superpower fails to kill even after 2 layers of Spikes.
Mega Tyranitar: 252 Adamant crit EQ fails to kill even after 2 layers of Spikes and 168 HP Mega Tar is OHKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash.
Those are all of the Pokemon in S and A rank, but honorable mention to Mega Charizard X, which fails to kill with Flare Blitz and dies to EQ or Z-Superpower in return.
Melmetal @ Choice Band / Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Superpower / Earthquake
12 Speed creeps Toxapex, though a little more can be invested to creep further at the cost of making the occasional roll slightly less favorable. Alternatively, with Magnezone support, a Sub 3 Attacks set with Leftovers could also be very effective as it eases prediction and helps prevent revenge killing as Melmetal is so slow.
Below are Melmetal's matchups versus all of the S and A ranked USUM OU Pokemon (at the time of writing this). When I say something fails to kill Melmetal, that means even with max rolls. When I say Melmetal kills something, that means even with min rolls. If I don't mention hazards in the calc, then the calc considers no hazards. These calcs are using the above spread and moveset (CB = Choice Band).
Heatran: 0 Special Attack fails to OHKO with Magma Storm and dies to EQ. Superpower OHKOs 0 bulk Heatran after Rocks. 252 Timid Magma Storm has a small chance to not OHKO. Keep in mind Magma Storm's accuracy.
Landorus-T: 252 Jolly crit EQ fails to kill. -1 non-CB Ice Punch OHKOs 0 bulk Lando and almost always OHKOs Landos with some bulk (always OHKOs after rocks). Defensive Lando's EQ has a ~1/3 chance to not 2HKO, and then has a ~2/3 chance of dying to CB Ice Punch (which has the same power as non-Intimidated non-CB Ice Punch).
Mega Alakazam: Has a small chance to live Timid Focus Blast (Modest always kills). -1 non-CB Double Iron Bash OHKOs. Keep in mind Focus Blast's accuracy.
Ferrothorn: Superpower does too much for Ferrothorn to be able to stall with Leech Seed. Ferrothorn beats sets without Sub and Superpower.
Ash-Greninja: In base forme, Specs Hydro Pump fails to OHKO even after 2 layers of Spikes. In Ash forme, Specs Hydro Pump has a 50% chance to OHKO and Specs Dark Pulse fails to OHKO even after 2 layers of Spikes. Base forme and Ash forme have the same bulk and are both OHKOd by non-CB Thunder Punch. Hydro Pump is slightly inaccurate. If it's Waterium-Z Battle Bond, see Protean Greninja below.
Protean Greninja: Hydro Vortex fails to kill even after Rocks and dies to non-CB Thunder Punch. HP Fire 2HKOs and EQ or All-Out Pummeling OHKO in return. From Physical sets, Low Kick almost always 2HKOs but dies to non-CB Double Iron Bash. Greninja's All-Out Pummeling fails to kill after Rocks and 2 layers of Spikes. Z-Dig is as strong as Z-Low Kick.
Magearna: 252 Focus Blast fails to OHKO after Rocks and dies to CB Double Iron Bash. Non-CB Double Iron Bash has a chance to OHKO after a little chip (EQ does less). CB Double Iron Bash OHKOs AV Magearna. Keep in mind Focus Blast's accuracy.
Mega Mawile: +2 Fire Fang fails to OHKO and 92 HP Mawile almost always dies to non-CB Double Iron Bash after only one Spike.
Tangrowth: AV is 2HKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash, and phys def is always 2HKOd after Rocks if no Lefties (if Lefties, 2HKOd most of the time). Tangrowth cannot 3HKO with any move. Sleep Powder or Rocky Helmet + Leech Seed are annoying.
Tapu Bulu: 252 Adamant Z-Superpower fails to kill Melmetal even after a Spike. Nobody uses this spread, but 252/252+ Bulu is still OHKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash.
Tornadus-T: 252 Focus Blast fails to kill even after 2 layers of Spikes and dies in return to non-CB Double Iron Bash. Keep in mind Focus Blast's accuracy. Tornadus-T's All-Out Pummeling OHKOs. Max HP Tornadus-T has a 50% chance to be OHKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash.
Toxapex: SpDef Toxapex is 2HKOd by non-CB Thunder Punch (EQ does more if Melmetal has it). Phys Def Toxapex avoids the 2HKO from non-CB, but CB 2HKOs. Toxapex has to pray Scald burns on the first try and still sometimes loses even if that happens.
Celesteela: Even Phys Def takes too much from Thunder Punch to be able to stall with Leech Seed.
Clefable: 252+ LO Focus Blast fails to OHKO and non-CB Double Iron Bash OHKOs even 252/252+ Clef.
Kartana: Z-Sacred Sword fails to OHKO even after Rocks (CB Sacred Sword does less) and Superpower OHKOs Kartana after Rocks.
Mega Latios: EQ and Psychic both don't 3HKO and Mega Latios dies to non-CB Double Iron Bash after Rocks. If it has HP Fire, that has a chance to not 2HKO.
Magnezone: Modest Specs Thunderbolt fails to kill even after a Spike. Modest Z-Thunderbolt has a 2/3 chance to OHKO. Dies to EQ, and dies to non-CB Superpower after a little chip.
Mega Medicham: HJK and non-CB Double Iron Bash both OHKO, so Mega Medicham wins 90% of the time.
Mega Scizor: Melmetal pretty much cannot beat Mega-Scizor under any circumstances (unless Ice Punch freeze or Thunder Punch paralyze + multiple consecutive full para's), and becomes setup fodder if the Scizor is SD.
Tapu Koko: Specs Tbolt in terrain fails to kill, and bulkier Koko sets are still OHKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash. Z-Wild Charge in terrain fails to kill after 3 layers of Spikes. Dies to Z-Tbolt in Terrain however.
Tapu Lele: non-Specs Focus Blast fails to kill even after Rocks. Burned non-CB Double Iron Bash OHKOs. Z-Psychic in terrain fails to kill even with 3 layers of Spikes.
Volcarona: wins as long as Fire Blast doesn't miss twice, as Melmetal cannot OHKO unless it runs the niche Rock Slide. AV Rock Slide Melmetal most likely won't be a thing, but it wins 1-on-1 though, as Fire Blast doesn't OHKO even after Rocks.
Chansey: non-CB Double Iron Bash does 52-62% (57% average) to 244/252+ Chansey, so can potentially PP stall. Superpower is not enough because Chansey is faster. Chansey loses if Z-Superpower or Choice Band.
Gliscor: EQ followed by crit EQ fails to kill and is OHKOd in return by non-CB Ice Punch.
Hawlucha: Crit HJK fails to kill most of the time. Even after the Defense boost from Electric Seed, is OHKOd by terrain-boosted non-CB Thunder Punch.
Kyurem-B: 252 LO Earth Power fails to kill even after a Spike and is OHKOd in return by non-CB Double Iron Bash.
Mega Latias: HP Fire fails to 2HKO even after 2 layers of Spikes and non-CB Double Iron Bash 2HKOs.
Reuniclus: Phys Def is still 2HKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash. Both the standard Reuniclus spread and this Melmetal spread creep Toxapex, but if Melmetal is faster then it can potentially flinch with Double Iron Bash.
Tyranitar: CB EQ fails to kill Melmetal even after Rocks and 3 layers of Spikes, and is OHKOd back by non-CB Double Iron Bash. Ttar's CB Superpower fails to kill even after 2 layers of Spikes.
Mega Tyranitar: 252 Adamant crit EQ fails to kill even after 2 layers of Spikes and 168 HP Mega Tar is OHKOd by non-CB Double Iron Bash.
Those are all of the Pokemon in S and A rank, but honorable mention to Mega Charizard X, which fails to kill with Flare Blitz and dies to EQ or Z-Superpower in return.
After discussing this update for hours on Discord and in the OU room I figured I'd also give my thoughts on some Pokemon.
Right off the bat this thing seems way too strong. Dragon Dance with BoltBeam coverage in Icicle Spear + Fusion Bolt coming off of 170 base Attack and 95 base Speed seems like it's way too much for the tier. It can run Heavy-Duty Boots to patch up its weakness to Stealth Rock but also Power Herb to nuke anything with Freeze Shock.
A set with Freeze-Dry + Earth Power + Substitute + Roost running Metronome seems hard to overcome if you can't pivot in an Infiltrator Dragapult safely. It could even take the physical road and become a discount Kyurem-Black with Dragon Dance if that one gets banned.
This guy is terrifying. It could run Choice Band perhaps even with Trick Room support in which case you're either gonna need a Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn or a Rotom to stop it, but it could also utilize an Assault Vest and tank almost anything.
Terrakion should be solid enough since its only switch-ins are Hippowdon, Kommo-o (to an extent) and Air Balloon Aegislash (lol) but it hates Dugtrio.
Conkeldurr is better than ever, I'm not sure if I'm gassing it too much but I can see this guy as one of the best Pokemon in the metagame. If you look at the Pokemon I mentioned before this you'll see that they all get messed up by Conkeldurr's STAB attacks. Now that it gets Knock Off too it somehow becomes even harder to switch in on this. I've been thinking of running Drain Punch/Close Combat + Mach Punch + Knock Off + Facade. Knock Off deals with Ghosts while Facade deals with Fairies and Toxapex.
We finally get a solid scarfer. I think Choice Scarf is definitely the way to go since it revenge kills Kyurem and Choice Band Terrakion nicely, can't be trapped by Choice Band Dugtrio and can win games through some sheer luck like Togekiss has already been doing.
Dugtrio is definitely not dying down with the addition of Terrakion, Jirachi and Melmetal though it'll be interesting to see if it continues to use Choice Band predominantly and deal with Melmetal better or if it opts to go for Choice Scarf to trap Scarf Jirachi and Terrakion.
SubToxic is freed which might set it up for a suspect test again later down the line, but we'll have to wait and see.
I quite like the idea of physically defensive Unaware Clefable since it allows it to check both Conkeldurr and NP Hydreigon. It's able to run Soft-Boiled with Unaware now thanks to the new egg move transfer-in-daycare mechanic allowing it free up a spot for Stealth Rock, Calm Mind or coverage but you can also still run Wish of course.
Primarina can function as a solid Hydreigon switch-in as well as a Choice Specs wallbreaker, definitely not to be overlooked.
Our current metagame is quite unkind to Keldeo since some of our current top picks like Dragapult, Toxapex and Seismitoad can serve as checks to it. Nevertheless, Taunt + Calm Mind allows it to get past Toxapex at least and Water + Fighting is still a decent offensive combo.
I can't see these guys putting in a lot of work in a metagame where Corviknight and Toxapex are bound to still be prominent.
While Celebi is also walled by Corviknight I think it some potential in its ability to take down bulky Waters including Toxapex.
Zeraora seems like a cool alternative to Rotom formes on some teams since it has access to both Fire and Grass coverage in Fire Punch and Grass Knot for Ferrothorn and Seismitoad/Gastrodon respectively.
I can see Gastrodon overtaking Seismitoad now that it has gained access to Toxic too. Since it has access to Recover it doesn't have a need for Wish support like Seismitoad does, allowing Clefable to run Soft-Boiled opening up a spot to run Stealth Rock in its stead.
Shell Smash is cool but I think this guy is being overhyped due to Mega Blastoise's success in National Dex OU. It's not mega and 85 Special Attack or 83 Attack is very mediocre. Earthquake for Toxapex is nice but I still think you're better off running Cloyster with its strong Skill Link flinch-inducing attacks.
A gigantic threat under sun: boost to +2 with Growth and sweep with your Chlorophyll-boosted Speed and unresisted attacking combo of STAB Giga Drain + sun-boosted Weather Ball + Earth Power. While this is great, the problem is of course that your team has to be built around it. Still, not to be slept on.
Darmanitan's Unovian cousin has come to visit and it probably has a niche to stay. The tier lacks strong Fire-types and that's exactly what Darmanitan is, which it is able to show in its ability to OHKO Melmetal with a Sheer Force and Life Orb/Choice Band-boosted (or even Choice Scarf with minimal chip) Flare Blitz, though significantly hurting itself in the process.
Right off the bat this thing seems way too strong. Dragon Dance with BoltBeam coverage in Icicle Spear + Fusion Bolt coming off of 170 base Attack and 95 base Speed seems like it's way too much for the tier. It can run Heavy-Duty Boots to patch up its weakness to Stealth Rock but also Power Herb to nuke anything with Freeze Shock.
A set with Freeze-Dry + Earth Power + Substitute + Roost running Metronome seems hard to overcome if you can't pivot in an Infiltrator Dragapult safely. It could even take the physical road and become a discount Kyurem-Black with Dragon Dance if that one gets banned.
This guy is terrifying. It could run Choice Band perhaps even with Trick Room support in which case you're either gonna need a Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn or a Rotom to stop it, but it could also utilize an Assault Vest and tank almost anything.
Terrakion should be solid enough since its only switch-ins are Hippowdon, Kommo-o (to an extent) and Air Balloon Aegislash (lol) but it hates Dugtrio.
Conkeldurr is better than ever, I'm not sure if I'm gassing it too much but I can see this guy as one of the best Pokemon in the metagame. If you look at the Pokemon I mentioned before this you'll see that they all get messed up by Conkeldurr's STAB attacks. Now that it gets Knock Off too it somehow becomes even harder to switch in on this. I've been thinking of running Drain Punch/Close Combat + Mach Punch + Knock Off + Facade. Knock Off deals with Ghosts while Facade deals with Fairies and Toxapex.
We finally get a solid scarfer. I think Choice Scarf is definitely the way to go since it revenge kills Kyurem and Choice Band Terrakion nicely, can't be trapped by Choice Band Dugtrio and can win games through some sheer luck like Togekiss has already been doing.
Dugtrio is definitely not dying down with the addition of Terrakion, Jirachi and Melmetal though it'll be interesting to see if it continues to use Choice Band predominantly and deal with Melmetal better or if it opts to go for Choice Scarf to trap Scarf Jirachi and Terrakion.
SubToxic is freed which might set it up for a suspect test again later down the line, but we'll have to wait and see.
I quite like the idea of physically defensive Unaware Clefable since it allows it to check both Conkeldurr and NP Hydreigon. It's able to run Soft-Boiled with Unaware now thanks to the new egg move transfer-in-daycare mechanic allowing it free up a spot for Stealth Rock, Calm Mind or coverage but you can also still run Wish of course.
Primarina can function as a solid Hydreigon switch-in as well as a Choice Specs wallbreaker, definitely not to be overlooked.
Our current metagame is quite unkind to Keldeo since some of our current top picks like Dragapult, Toxapex and Seismitoad can serve as checks to it. Nevertheless, Taunt + Calm Mind allows it to get past Toxapex at least and Water + Fighting is still a decent offensive combo.
I can't see these guys putting in a lot of work in a metagame where Corviknight and Toxapex are bound to still be prominent.
While Celebi is also walled by Corviknight I think it some potential in its ability to take down bulky Waters including Toxapex.
Zeraora seems like a cool alternative to Rotom formes on some teams since it has access to both Fire and Grass coverage in Fire Punch and Grass Knot for Ferrothorn and Seismitoad/Gastrodon respectively.
I can see Gastrodon overtaking Seismitoad now that it has gained access to Toxic too. Since it has access to Recover it doesn't have a need for Wish support like Seismitoad does, allowing Clefable to run Soft-Boiled opening up a spot to run Stealth Rock in its stead.
Shell Smash is cool but I think this guy is being overhyped due to Mega Blastoise's success in National Dex OU. It's not mega and 85 Special Attack or 83 Attack is very mediocre. Earthquake for Toxapex is nice but I still think you're better off running Cloyster with its strong Skill Link flinch-inducing attacks.
A gigantic threat under sun: boost to +2 with Growth and sweep with your Chlorophyll-boosted Speed and unresisted attacking combo of STAB Giga Drain + sun-boosted Weather Ball + Earth Power. While this is great, the problem is of course that your team has to be built around it. Still, not to be slept on.
Darmanitan's Unovian cousin has come to visit and it probably has a niche to stay. The tier lacks strong Fire-types and that's exactly what Darmanitan is, which it is able to show in its ability to OHKO Melmetal with a Sheer Force and Life Orb/Choice Band-boosted (or even Choice Scarf with minimal chip) Flare Blitz, though significantly hurting itself in the process.
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What will be the main Water/Ground now?
Currently the 4th most used Pokemon in the tier. Has Stealth Rock, got Knock Off, and has decent speed. But it lacks reliable recovery.
Has reliable recovery in Recover and got Toxic. It doesn't have access to Stealth Rock and is way slow though.
Currently the 4th most used Pokemon in the tier. Has Stealth Rock, got Knock Off, and has decent speed. But it lacks reliable recovery.
Has reliable recovery in Recover and got Toxic. It doesn't have access to Stealth Rock and is way slow though.
Unless I am missing something this should not be possible because Soft-Boiled isn't an egg move but a gen 3 tutor move.
Woops, you're right. Wish or Moonlight on Unaware Clefable it is.
As others have said, sun looks to be actually pretty decent now what with gaining not only Venusaur, but Darmanitan. Cinderace was ok before but biggest issue was that its pretty weak without a boosting item, but without scarf its just another Dugtrio-bait mon for sun. Darmanitan is strong enough to be able to go scarf which means its nowhere near as easily invalidated by Arena Trap.
Yet to test but theorymonning something like:
This looks like it could be quite scary. A couple of U-turners + Dugtrio is always clutch. Seismitoad here basically just for rocks and to temporarily give you insurance against Rain / Dracovish, and also Rotom-H which is otherwise a shit match-up. Maybe SR Clef works on some builds though. SDef Mandibuzz looks like the best Defogger cos most of the sun abusers aren't exactly fans of Dragapult / Hydreigon.
Double Drought could also be potentially interesting to help overcome Dugtrio headaches, though you obviously open a lot of defensive holes. Heat Rock SR Torkoal alongside Scarf or Shed Shell Ninetales lets you have the benefit of 8-turn sun, while also being able to keep up a 5-turn sun against the many Dugtrio teams. Might be one of those things that only looks cool on paper and could be awful in practice, but definitely worth experimenting with. Also 2 setters gives you a better chance of outlasting Pelipper on that standard rain offense team, though the obvious trade-off is losing the defensive utility of Seismitoad particularly against Rotom-H.
Also, whilst Mandibuzz looks great on Sun, definitely shouldn't overlook Xatu. Sure, gives Hydreigon and Dragapult pretty free switch-ins but Magic Bounce is class for denying hazards on the spot. Big downside is that Excadrill still sets up against you but that aside Xatu is a really interesting option for teams that stack SR weak mons as Sun tends to.
Yet to test but theorymonning something like:
This looks like it could be quite scary. A couple of U-turners + Dugtrio is always clutch. Seismitoad here basically just for rocks and to temporarily give you insurance against Rain / Dracovish, and also Rotom-H which is otherwise a shit match-up. Maybe SR Clef works on some builds though. SDef Mandibuzz looks like the best Defogger cos most of the sun abusers aren't exactly fans of Dragapult / Hydreigon.
Double Drought could also be potentially interesting to help overcome Dugtrio headaches, though you obviously open a lot of defensive holes. Heat Rock SR Torkoal alongside Scarf or Shed Shell Ninetales lets you have the benefit of 8-turn sun, while also being able to keep up a 5-turn sun against the many Dugtrio teams. Might be one of those things that only looks cool on paper and could be awful in practice, but definitely worth experimenting with. Also 2 setters gives you a better chance of outlasting Pelipper on that standard rain offense team, though the obvious trade-off is losing the defensive utility of Seismitoad particularly against Rotom-H.
Also, whilst Mandibuzz looks great on Sun, definitely shouldn't overlook Xatu. Sure, gives Hydreigon and Dragapult pretty free switch-ins but Magic Bounce is class for denying hazards on the spot. Big downside is that Excadrill still sets up against you but that aside Xatu is a really interesting option for teams that stack SR weak mons as Sun tends to.
I agree, I’m really upset by this actually because I’ve been enjoying the meta, and really hoped transfer only moves wouldn’t be a thing. 6v6 casual battles are the only place in game where people abide by Smogon rules, usually 7-8/10 battles you can tell people are following our rules there. Now with these new additions, casual battles have been ruined for me which sucks. I can’t tell if they’ll have transfer moves or not, almost unpredictable. I lost my old ds, and this was my first Pokémon game since X/Y I have no way to get these old Pokémon. It also adds another confusing mechanism to building teams. The game was clean as is, really hoping for them to ban transfer moves completely from online :/ or else sadly I’m going to have to move to the 4v4 ranked meta online which I really don’t wanna do just so I can still compete knowing we all have equal access to the same moves. Blahh cheers friends!
I feel like the biggest loser of Pokemon Home is most likely Cloyster. A large reason that Cloyster is so strong now compared to past generations is that Ice and Rock are resisted by Steel, but previously excluding Aegislash all the Steel types didn't resist Ice (Corviknight + Ferrothorn) or in Bisharp's case lost to a flinch and still failed to kill it without rocks even if it wasn't flinched unless it got a high roll and was using Life Orb, which half of them didn't.
Now we are going to have Scarf Jirachi, which means Cloyster will need to be Jolly to outspeed it which loses the kill on Dragapult without rocks and sometimes even with them. Aegislash will also probably rise in usage with a new defensive set utilizing Toxic and obviously Melmetal will be very common as well. Bisharp with Knock Off will now kill 100% of the time without rocks too.
Now we are going to have Scarf Jirachi, which means Cloyster will need to be Jolly to outspeed it which loses the kill on Dragapult without rocks and sometimes even with them. Aegislash will also probably rise in usage with a new defensive set utilizing Toxic and obviously Melmetal will be very common as well. Bisharp with Knock Off will now kill 100% of the time without rocks too.
So I was looking through Melmetal's movepool the other day while waiting for Pokemon HOME to drop and discovered it got Body Press this gen, on top of having Acid Armor/Iron Defense. Since Melmetal was already stupid bulky on the physical side, I decided to come up with an interesting set. Might not be as good as CB or AV, but I just thought it would be worth noting:
Melmetal @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant/Brave Nature
- Body Press
- Acid Armor/Iron Defense (both the same move. take your pick lol)
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
The purpose of the set would be to take advantage of Melmetal's already very good bulk and boost it to stupidly high levels to spam Body Press.
Body Press will be your main move-of-choice once Acid Armor/Iron Defense is up, letting it threaten Corviknight and most other mons after a boost. Double Iron Bash is for STAB, as well as hitting through fairies that may resist Body Press (plus hitting through cloyster in the event it runs focus sash over king's rock.). Earthquake prevents it from getting walled by Aegislash and Toxapex, as well as providing more coverage. Leftovers allows it to have some form of recovery, although team support like Wish Clefable/Jirachi ( Clefable specifically I believe will core extremely well with any Melmetal, not just this version.) will prove extremely beneficial for it. Trick Room support (if it's even used still lol) makes this an absolute unit of a pokemon, as its very low speed and high attacking stats can allow it to run wild.
Damage Calculations: (used for majority of major threats in the tier, assuming +2 Def)
+2 0 Def Melmetal Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dracovish: 157-185 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 354-416 (111.6 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (if Melmetal survives the 31.1% Chance to OHKO from Specs Dragapult's Fire Blast)
+2 0 Def Melmetal Body Press vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Corviknight: 140-165 (35 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Clefable: 540-636 (137 - 161.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0 Def Melmetal Body Press vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 113-133 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 Def Melmetal Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mandibuzz: 150-177 (35.3 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (guaranteed 2HKO if using DIB)
Again, this might not be the best Melmetal set available, just wanted to post this and see what opinions are regarding it since it's been on my mind for a while.
Melmetal @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant/Brave Nature
- Body Press
- Acid Armor/Iron Defense (both the same move. take your pick lol)
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
The purpose of the set would be to take advantage of Melmetal's already very good bulk and boost it to stupidly high levels to spam Body Press.
Body Press will be your main move-of-choice once Acid Armor/Iron Defense is up, letting it threaten Corviknight and most other mons after a boost. Double Iron Bash is for STAB, as well as hitting through fairies that may resist Body Press (plus hitting through cloyster in the event it runs focus sash over king's rock.). Earthquake prevents it from getting walled by Aegislash and Toxapex, as well as providing more coverage. Leftovers allows it to have some form of recovery, although team support like Wish Clefable/Jirachi ( Clefable specifically I believe will core extremely well with any Melmetal, not just this version.) will prove extremely beneficial for it. Trick Room support (if it's even used still lol) makes this an absolute unit of a pokemon, as its very low speed and high attacking stats can allow it to run wild.
Damage Calculations: (used for majority of major threats in the tier, assuming +2 Def)
+2 0 Def Melmetal Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dracovish: 157-185 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 354-416 (111.6 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (if Melmetal survives the 31.1% Chance to OHKO from Specs Dragapult's Fire Blast)
+2 0 Def Melmetal Body Press vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Corviknight: 140-165 (35 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Clefable: 540-636 (137 - 161.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0 Def Melmetal Body Press vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 113-133 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 0 Def Melmetal Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mandibuzz: 150-177 (35.3 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (guaranteed 2HKO if using DIB)
Again, this might not be the best Melmetal set available, just wanted to post this and see what opinions are regarding it since it's been on my mind for a while.
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Ok, this memer has sets. KB sets ofc, because that's gonna be the meta. Species Clause means baby Kyurem isn't going to stand a chance.
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Icicle Spear
- Iron Head/Rock move
- Dragon Dance
Or you can go for what is basically the reintroduction of Z moves with the Power Herb set:
To put its breaking power into perspective, it has the same Attack after a Dragon Dance as Zacian-C after Intrepid Sword. And it can hold an item.
Finally:
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Icicle Spear
- Iron Head/Rock move
- Dragon Dance
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Icicle Spear (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 198-234 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yep. LO KB is back. While the +1 Speed wasn't very useful to it in Nat Dex, it occupies the same speed tier as Garm did. Hence after a Dragon Dance it outruns the entire unboosted meta, but unlike Garm it doesn't need to be Choice locked to blow the meta sky-high. For secondary coverage, in addition to its previously underutilized Iron Head that lets it do this:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 400-473 (101.5 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO (ignores Unaware)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Iron Head vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 499-588 (123.2 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem: 354-416 (78.1 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (rip those ideas)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Iron Head vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 421-497 (106 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It has Body Press (don't use it, your STABs hit harder),
Rock Slide/Stone Edge because F sun and resisting BoltBeam,
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Torkoal: 247-291 (72 - 84.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (best hope you keep your boots and don't take chip, Stone Edge obviously KOs)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Heat: 294-348 (97 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (You resist BoltBeam? Cute.)
Yep. LO KB is back. While the +1 Speed wasn't very useful to it in Nat Dex, it occupies the same speed tier as Garm did. Hence after a Dragon Dance it outruns the entire unboosted meta, but unlike Garm it doesn't need to be Choice locked to blow the meta sky-high. For secondary coverage, in addition to its previously underutilized Iron Head that lets it do this:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 400-473 (101.5 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO (ignores Unaware)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Iron Head vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 499-588 (123.2 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem: 354-416 (78.1 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (rip those ideas)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Iron Head vs. 224 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 421-497 (106 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It has Body Press (don't use it, your STABs hit harder),
Rock Slide/Stone Edge because F sun and resisting BoltBeam,
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Torkoal: 247-291 (72 - 84.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (best hope you keep your boots and don't take chip, Stone Edge obviously KOs)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Rock Slide vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Heat: 294-348 (97 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (You resist BoltBeam? Cute.)
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Freeze Shock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 399-469 (96.3 - 113.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Freeze Shock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 123-144 (40.4 - 47.3%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (this is on a correct prediction btw)
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Freeze Shock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 274-324 (77.8 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (yikes it lives it)
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Freeze Shock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 169-199 (41.1 - 48.4%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (ok Melmetal is just a bit stupid, this is uninvested wtf)
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Freeze Shock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 123-144 (40.4 - 47.3%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (this is on a correct prediction btw)
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Freeze Shock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 274-324 (77.8 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (yikes it lives it)
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Freeze Shock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Melmetal: 169-199 (41.1 - 48.4%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (ok Melmetal is just a bit stupid, this is uninvested wtf)
Finally:
Kyurem-Black @ King's Rock
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Icicle Spear
- Iron Head
- Dragon Dance
...
Sorry.
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Icicle Spear
- Iron Head
- Dragon Dance
...
Sorry.
Katy
Banned deucer.
With them getting Defog I can see Sets Choice Scarf-Set and Bulky-Set working on them. Mew can act as a reliable Defogger with its access to Roost + the option in U-turn to give Momentum for its teammates. Similiar I can see the Rotom-Forms and Hydreigon do well with Defog and a Momentum-Move with Volt Switch / U-turn. I think they can run reliably Scarf-Fog sets like we saw in the last generation aswell.
Having access to the move Soft-Boiled is a Bless for Clefable therefore has a better way to Recovery making Moonlight more or less useless on its Support-set with Stealth Rock.
Oh holy boy, there we go, Sun can finally be a dangerous archetype with the best cholophyll-sweeper back in buisiness. Loosing HP Fire doesnt even bother this mon as it has now access to the dangerous Weather Ball Option. Dugtrio can act like a reliable trapper and Rocker for this archetype and can remove the opposing weather setter in Tyranitar with some smart switches.
I can see them having their place back at OU or having a niche in Cobalions and Virizions case. With having access to new moves they can fit on different achetypes like Virizion with gaining access to Solar Blade it may find its ways on some Sun-teams at OU as a dangerous and fast breaker.
Terrakion has a good offensive typing to profit from, Rock/Fighting with coverages like Earthquake is nothing to laugh at and will for sure pose a threat in the OU Metagame without having to worry for once about Landorus-Ts presence in the tier.
Keldeo on the other hand will find its way to OU-Usage again, Choice Specs-Sets and Calm Mind + Taunt fit well, whereas Cobalion might serve a good role as a Stealth Rock setter.
uhm no just no, dragon dance, no....lets find out how terrifying Kyublack will be with access to Dragon Dance, even tho I think it will not be its only Set, it has enough Coverage-Options to chose from.
freeze-dry, nuff said
Maybe finds its way as a veil-setter in ou with havin' a niche there, there enough setup-mons which may profit from instant-dual-screens.
Could be a cool Rocks-Setter, which isnt walled by so many mons with dangerous coverage-moves to hit dark/ghosts super-effectively.
Can fullfill a spot as a wish-passer and with U-turn and Iron head it will run rampant again. I can also see a Scarf-Set working on it, since it has enough coverage to bypass walls such as Ferrothorn with Fire Punch or it can just choose to U-turn out into something which threatens Ferrothorn.
The cute onion is back again with having the ability to check Virizion and Terrakion with a Choice Scarf or it can act like a bulky pivot.
I don't see much what they can do, maybe we see some gimmick with Alola-Raichu and Pincurchin due to Alola-Raichus ability on electric-terrain.
But otherwise I just dont think they will offer much for Ou-purposes and thus will drop down tier after tier.
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