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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion v3 (Usage in post #251)

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Would like to mention LO 3 Attack Clef as being really good right now; it beats basically all of the new additions (moonblast + fire blast always kills non-spdef invested melmetal), and in general many of the current offense teams have lots of trouble switching in. I've seen Primarina (either Specs or CM) do similarly well, although I haven't gotten around to using it myself yet.
 
I don't think unbans are the way to go or will happen. Believe OU Council is coming to a conclusion on Arena Trap, and iirc Finch mentioned in the simple questions thread that council is also checking out Melly and Kyub. Once potential suspects or quicbans go through, the meta should fix itself slowly. Or maybe I'm wrong and nothing gets banned....hopefully not
 
Steve Angello said:
Probably an unpopular opinion: Free Darmanitan

with the addition of pokemon home I think it wouldn’t be too bad to unban it
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*Icicle crashes dugtrio/dragapult*
*Flare blitzes melmetal/aegislash*
*iron heads clefable/Kyurem/terrakion*
Yep, Im thinking the metagame is saved.

Realistically speaking though, they could try testing it but just letting it loose on the ladder wouldnt be a good idea. I'm genuinely not sure what the "target" power level for OU is this gen, thats mostly up to the council. Its still a mon with nasty coverage, a groosly inflated attacking stat, and no counters.
 
ZiodyneDX said:
Yeah Venusaur is going to be scary AF now in the Sun

The only checks I see it having are Rotom-H ,Dragapult and possibly Renculus
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A defensive core of Mandibuzz and Rhyperior could be useful in this case. Mandibuzz can handle the Drag and Reuni (especially since Thunder is only 50% in sun) while providing defog and u-turn support into Darm/Duggy and Rhyperior would be able to switch into Rotom fearing nothing while giving up no volt switch momentum and providing rocks support/a fire resist.
 
I know you guys love to rip on the council for literally everything, without realizing it takes time to have proper discussions to come to a decision, but I'd really appreciate if you left it out of this thread. All it does is severely tank the quality of discussion. Let's stick to discussing the metagame at hand. I will delete any posts that complain about the council's inaction after what has literally been just two days.
 
I’m honestly a big fan of Melmetal staying around in the tier. It’s rare to have the term “tank” actually apply to a mon but Melmetal is the tankiest of tanks. Banded sets do require some predictions if your opponent has a rotom wash or heat, and I have even encountered a defensive Toxapex with enough speed to ensure double iron Bash isn’t flinching it (meaning pex can act as a nice pivot into melmetal to scout). It’s really good, but just that, I haven’t once thought that I’m using a skill-less win button like a Gen 6 Hoopa or Mega mawile.
 
Jordy said:
I know you guys love to rip on the council for literally everything, without realizing it takes time to have proper discussions to come to a decision, but I'd really appreciate if you left it out of this thread. All it does is severely tank the quality of discussion. Let's stick to discussing the metagame at hand. I will delete any posts that complain about the council's inaction after what has literally been just two days.
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The complaints about Duggy are valid. I don't think anyone is arguing in favor of it making the meta healthy. The only reason it seems to still exist is (apparently) because of SPL? Somewhat understandable, though frustrating.

But yeah giving Kyub or whatever some time is fair. If nothing else it's fun for a few days to use broken mons. However the longer duggy is in the meta the more the format will warp around it and the less effective further testing of other mons will be.

I think I speak for most players on this website when I say you should quickban duggy. We gain nothing by waiting.
 
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The complaints about Dugtrio are not valid. It's common sense that you cannot suspect test something based on a past metagame, as much as the new metagame may not fundamentally affect what's wrong with it.

I don't want to hear anything else about timing complaints, really. Dugtrio (or Arena Trap) is still not off the radar and the main reason why it has not been suspect tested and/or banned yet is because of the unfortunate timing of Pokemon Home. It was not in the council's hands.
 
The best check / counter for Venusaur and Sun in general is Kommo-O:


Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 172 SpD / 84 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock
- Body Press
- Toxic

I forgot what the Speed EV's were exactly for, but you use this utility mon basically as a hard counter to Venusaur and threaten your opponent with Rocks, Toxic and Press/Tail
 
Hiddenfreezer said:
The best check / counter for Venusaur and Sun in general is Kommo-O:


Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 HP / 172 SpD / 84 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Stealth Rock
- Body Press
- Toxic

I forgot what the Speed EV's were exactly for, but you use this utility mon basically as a hard counter to Venusaur and threaten your opponent with Rocks, Toxic and Press/Tail
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Drain Punch has around 84% as much damage output as Body Press. Not sure if there's any KOs you lose out on but Body Press doesn't hit all that much harder on a sp def spread.
 
Blastoise
I think Blastoise could make a splash in the meta. Have Shell Smash and a good physical move pool along with enough special move to get by. With it special move pool it hit every with normal effectiveness besides Primarina, Toxapex, Golisopod, Araquanid, and Jellicent. And physical it has the movepool to hit every for normal effectiveness.

Cobalion, Terrakion, and Virzion
I'm grouping all of these guys together because they mostly play the same. All can run Choice Band and Swords Dance. They probably could run their primary type stab, close combat or sacred sword, then megahorn or a different coverage move and the last move could be rocks or move coverage.

Kyurem Base
I don't see regular kyurem making a impact in the scene. It maybe could be support but overwise nothing I can think of.

Kyurem Black
I think Black could run the same the same as last gen as a mixed sweeper. Also it could run a DD set.

Kyurem White
Right now White is in Ubers but I think it could be OU. White puts the grass, steels, and water of the meta in check. But it can be stopped by Special Dragapult, Physical Life Orb Dragapult, Assault Vest Melmetal, all of the musketeers that have Band close combat or one SD close combat, Band Zeraora, etc. So I think Kyurem could come down.

Mew
Mew can learn every TM and TR and is the only other Pokemon that can learn transform. It can run a imprision and transform set to make any Pokemon struggle. It all so can be ran as a scarfer to help patch up holes to hit threats you can't handle otherwise.

Keldeo
I can see Keldeo being ran as a Scarf/Specs user. With air slash to kill grasses, hydro pump and aura sphere/secret sword for stabs, and icy wind, taunt, toxic, reflect, or roar for support.

Others
I think that Celebi, Venusaur, Jirachi(maybe), Decidueye, Necrozma-Base, Incineroar, and Primarina will be in the lower tiers. Most I think will end up in UU or UUBL.
 
Robot7620 said:
I don't really see Jellicent being popular w/ Pex around, which is by far the best Keldeo counter (unless it got some coverage i don't know about?)
Also i didn't realize Clefable got Teleport but I still stand by my decision that Clef will worsen cuz of Home, and so will Corv. Hydreigon will probably be the best mon or maybe not cuz Terrakion enters the scene now.
and they gave ddance to kyub, a mon w/ 170 atk and 95 spe which is outstanding in this tier. with enough boosts it might just pull off a icicile spear set but it might be too unreliable
:blobshrug:
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Toxapex is set up batt for Keldo if it run TS instead of Toxic. Then the best pex can do is hope for a scald burn. Then at plus 6 pex stands no chance
 
Blazer50030 said:
Kyurem White
Right now White is in Ubers but I think it could be OU. White puts the grass, steels, and water of the meta in check. But it can be stopped by Special Dragapult, Physical Life Orb Dragapult, Assault Vest Melmetal, all of the musketeers that have Band close combat or one SD close combat, Band Zeraora, etc. So I think Kyurem could come down.
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As much as I enjoy the idea of experimenting with weak ubers, we are into day 3 now with an extremely chaotic metagame that is trying to be figured out, and Kyurem-White of all things is by no means a contender for this.

The biggest reason why Kyurem-Black was brought down was because it couldn't at all take advantage of the gargantuan attack stat it had outside of a linear, extremely small roster of physical moves. It had the abysmal Freeze Shock, Dragon Claw, Iron Head, and Fusion Bolt with no reliable physical Ice STAB whatsoever, and it could be exploited. However, people are arguing to reban it because now it has physical Ice STAB and the ability to simultaneously remedy its ok speed and exacerbate its insane attack stat, all while being able to cleave through things that should check it as merit of Teravolt and great special coverage.

Kyurem-White, on the other hand, has a metric fuckton of special moves to fully exploit its insanely high Special Attack stat, and now that it has Freeze Dry on top of Fusion Flare and Earth Power, bringing it down would be more or less the second coming of Galarian Darmanitan and would suffocate team building to an absolute T.

Please, remember to bear in mind that checks are not counters before making a suggestion like that. By that logic, Galarian Darmanitan should be unbanned, and we should bring down Giratina-O in Gen 7 because of its weakness to Knock Off--an extremely common, powerful move.
 
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