Pet Mod SS OU Theorymon (Completed)

Voting is over!
Count:

Starmie: 10
Tangrowth: 3
Quagsire: 2
Diancie: 0

More votes than last slate, but still a pretty overwhelming majority for Starmie.
Time for the next slate!

:ss/swampert: +Magic Bounce
:ss/thundurus: +Spikes
:ss/rotom-fan: + No Guard, + Hurricane
:ss/ribombee: +Healing Wish


As TailGlowVM said, we have a ladder on the DH server now! Currently the validator isnt working but that should be fixed soon. We will be creating a discord server for more casual discussion, and once the ladder is working properly that can be a place to find games and work your way through the new meta! And, as always, remember to send any submissions my way!
 
:swampert:bounce swampert looks (and probably is) cool but it still kinda lack recovery and while rockers dont want to stay in on it it wouldn't exactly want to switch into the most common rockers either. lando and clef threatens it with knock, chomp fucks it over if it gets a sd on the switch, ferro can just smack it with a power whip. its no longer able to be toxicd tho, making it a great heatran counter that can get free momentum against it with flipturn. first impressions definately are pretty nice for me.

:thundurus: defiant spikes goes brr. it does well against most foggers either way because most of em are fliers and it can eat lando's intimidate with defiant. prank spikes can be a suicide lead on ho? maybe? actually a set of sash prankstwer with spikes/taunt/twave/filler looks like a pretty nice suicide lead.

:rotom-fan: lol infamous levitating fan (key work levitating) is somehow on this slate and i love it. no guard hurricane hits...actually not really hard and it gets thunder too. defensively this is just a worst zapdos/rotom-w so the only things to consider here are offensive sets. np (hdb because it has a lifespan of 3 turns with life orb) does a minimum of 60% to sdef heatran and around that much to sdef ferro, and its got some bulk and pain split/wow to back it up. scarf hits like a wet noodle (but outspeeds dragapult!) and specs barely does 50 against sdef lando so i dont like them as much. i like the idea but its honestly a bit too weak in practice and not fast/bulky enough to back it up. np and specs falls flat against most of the offensive meta and scarf isnt strong enough to do any meaningful damage to anything remotely bulky. tldr np is the best set for it imo but its about as good as rotom-h. its a scary breaker at +2 though, ill give you that.

+2 252 SpA Rotom-Fan Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 201-237 (57.1 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Rotom-Fan Thunder vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Heatran: 237-279 (61.3 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Rotom-Fan Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 258-304 (67.5 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (idk what spread sdef lando run these days so i just slapped on 252/252)
+2 252 SpA Rotom-Fan Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 348-410 (114.4 - 134.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Rotom-Fan Thunder/Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Assault Vest Slowking-Galar: 148-175 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (quite sad)

:ribombee: this is either really cool and revolutionary or just a random gimmick that helps a bit but dont change much in the grand scheme of things. then again i dont play webs, so ill keep my mouth shut here.
 
Last edited:
Im just gonna chip in and give my thoughts on Ribombee really quick.

I think part of the problem with Sticky Web teams is that the playstyle is very sacrifice-heavy, to an unhealthy extent. P much all Webbers are run as Suicide Leads, and are the first to be sacked. While that may just be because the playstyle is naturally very HO focused, it does mean a single free turn for a Defogger or Spinner completely ruins your gameplan, as your webber is usually dead by the time the first Defog goes off, and the mons typically found on webs cant really do much against the larger metagame without the support that webs gives them. Giving Healing Wish to Ribombee was a great sub that I really liked because of how it incentivizes a different way of playing with webs- you have incentive to keep your webber alive until atleast midgame, and, because of that, are no longer so bullied by any team with enough defensive momentum to pull off a defog. I really, really like this sub, as its not trying to make sticky webs better, per say, but rather it tries to offer a different way of playing them.

Then again I am the kind of girl who loves to use Shuckle so take it with a grain of rice
 
Ever since the departure and indeed untimely demise of the great Greninja, OU has been a dark down and a darker place. We have lost the art of offensive spiking.
But yonder on the horizon of theorymon OU comes a new light flying upon a cloud. A genie that shall grant OU’s greatest wish: to place spikes upon the great field of battle. The third and least of the genies shall receive my vote and with it will grant our dearest wish.
 
making this brief and short because my ability to make essays is gone

:swampert: at least it has a niche outside of rain teams thanks to magic bounce? can escape situations with flip turn, but other than that i'm not certain if it'll be used rather than using the other magic bounce users.

:thunderus: the post above me says it all.

:rotomfan: rotom fan with an actual ability can possibly see viability in OU with its heat and wash counterparts. Though will possibly be lower if it tries to do the spreading status set. Hurricanes and Thunders that don't need to be in rain to prevent missing would be nice.

:ribombee: gonna be hard to use healing wish on this one, but i think it can carve out a good niche. it's speed tier is respectable for it to use it as long as it's safe.

help i dont know how to spell thunderus or put the sprite for rotom fan but im too lazy-
 
I'll give my thoughts here.

:Swampert: Magic Bounce is a cool utility that Swampert could make use of, but my biggest problem is that it doesn't really make sense. It just doesn't feel right looking at Magic Bounce Swampert, and seems more like a hackmons idea. It would still struggle to check things that can be done better by other bulky grounds and waters.

:thundurus: Again, cool niche, gives Thundurus a use as an offensive spike setter and pivot, but it feels more hackmons-esque.

:rotom-fan: This one's neat, but shadowpea put it best. Even with Thunder and Hurricane, it just doesn't hit hard enough.

:ribombee: this is the only one I see worth exploring tbh. Being able to suicide lead ribombee, set webs, and healing wish out for a surprise heal that'll show up later in the match is a cool tech that I think could be fun to play around with. Sadly Im not sure how much more viability it will really give Ribombee as it's role and playstyle dont change too much.

Overall none of these 4 I think are great, but Ribombee would be worth having around as a suicide lead option.
 
Not gonna talk about the other three because they’re boring, bad, and awful flavour-wise, but I do want to talk about the one actually good sub here because idt people are giving it enough credit:
:ss/thundurus:
First off, I disagree with the above opinion that this feels like something out of BH. The mon with 7 giant spikes on its model getting Spikes is perfectly logical, so it feels unfair to lump it in with Magic Bounce Pert and one Rotom form randomly gaining a second ability and second form-type move without any changes to the others. I also disagree with Prankster being a good lead; hazard-only leads aren’t very worthwhile it in a gen with boots, so you’d rather just use Klefki as a lead Prank spiker, as it has comparable bulk, a better typing, and the ability to provide Screens support to your HO as well. So, what’s the appeal here? Defiant Spikes. This isn’t a Bisharp with SR + Defiant but a typing that makes it lose to every common defogger in the tier. Thundurus has an incredible anti-Defog typing, and combined with decent utility and the lack of Spin in the tier, it can pull off a CS1-Druddigon-esque role as an offensive hazard setter that can almost guarantee that Spikes stay up all game long. That’s not even the main draw here for me though, people have somehow forgotten about this guy:
:ss/thundurus-therian:
Thundurus-Therian transforms from Incarnate via an item in-game with no forced move replacements or additions like those found in Necrozma or Kyurem, for example, so any move change to Incarnate should inherently apply to Therian, and if it does, that makes this sub far more appealing to me. Whereas Thundurus-I aims to keep Spikes up, Thundurus-T throws them out as it scares mons out in a similar way to Greninja, making it a more valuable asset on a team and far scarier to play against. I wouldn’t recommend Spikes + Plot on the same set but Spikes definitely has its place on choiced and pivot sets. If Spikes doesn’t carry over fsr, Thundurus isn’t great, but is still better than the other options imo.
 
As an SS OU player who dips from time to time in Pet Mods, I'll give some thoughts on this slate. The long short of my thoughts, though, is that I share a lot of sentiments with G-Luke.

:swampert:
+Magic Bounce

Magic Bounce feels like optically a very strange ability for Swampert to have, especially from a flavor standpoint. In the SS OU metagame, Swampert's primary niche is to be a bulky, Stealth Rock-setting, pivoting Ground-type with an added Magma Storm resistance and the ability to more reliably take on Hail, however Swampert's issue is more that it is entirely and completely outclassed by Landorus-T as a Ground-type pivot due to its lack of a practical ability that complements its niche and, most prominently, its lack of a Ground-type immunity. Discussing the slate at hand, Magic Bounce gives Swampert a Toxic immunity which is probably the big thing of note, but in the grand scheme of things it's going to still get overwhelmed by U-turn spam, and it especially loathes Knock Off stripping it of Leftovers recovery. I personally feel as though Regenerator would be a more thematically fitting ability (considering Swampert is based on an axolotl), as well as one that better bolsters Swampert's existing niche in the SS OU metagame. Regenerator would help boost Swampert's longevity and play better to its niche as a bulky Ground-type pivot that would fit comfortably on Bulky Offense structures.

:thundurus::thundurus-therian:
+Spikes

This suggestion is interesting, and one that I could see being really cool especially in tandem with Defiant and considering the metagame has literally 0 viable offensive Spikers, but as cool as it is I don't really think it will do too much for it. To me, what really makes these Pokemon really struggle is their general inability to get in reliably throughout a game, as well as their reliance on weather to break Ground-types. Of the given suggestions though it feels at least the most dynamic considering how these Pokemon interact with Corviknight and Ground-types in general, and it adds an extra layer to their playstyle that could also further cement their niche as offensive Electric-types, so I'm ok with it.

:rotom-fan:
+Hurricane, +No Guard

I get why this was suggested, but this is definitely a case where I hugely dislike the idea mostly because of optics. If you want to give Rotom-Fan the option for a new ability, I think it's important to provide that same set of options for the other appliances as well, even if they may ultimately prefer Levitate. I'm definitely ok with Hurricane > Air Slash though, especially considering Rotom-Fan lacks in immediate power. Nasty Plot + Electric-STAB + Hurricane sounds really nasty in its own right, even without No Guard, but this is another case where the suggestion doesn't really help Rotom-Fan's core problems that block it from being a consistent presence. Defensively it's going to be lacking a lot and boasts very similar problems to Rotom-Heat since it is reliant on Pain Split for longevity and is prone to Knock Off from threats like Tornadus-T, which it may often attempt to pivot into and of which can gimp it further by exposing its Stealth Rock weakness. Rotom-Wash makes up for these issues with its extremely premium defensive profile, Stealth Rock neutrality, and incredibly potent secondary STAB which lets it outright beat Ground-types, but Rotom-Fan I think is going to always really be behind just by nature of its competition and its defensive shortcomings. In short, I don't really think this is an avenue worth sinking time into since it will likely take some serious, fundamental revisions that would, in my opinion, also require investment in the other appliances for optical consistency and create a messy web of balance decisions.

:ribombee:
+Healing Wish

This suggestion feels the most fun and practical to me, and is probably the one I would vote on personally. The main reason I like this idea is because it actively plays to the Sticky Web archetype's inherently volatile, sacrificial style and actually improves it, which in my opinion is notable considering how all-in of a playstyle it is and how it often makes very undesirable trades otherwise. Healing Wish on paper seems to do several things. For one, it gives a second wind to a Pokemon that may have otherwise been saved as death fodder and in essence adds an extra key breaker to the team. Healing Wish, however, also does something else very important, which is that it completely blocks Defog. This is monumental because Defog is, otherwise, technically unblockable for standard Sticky Web structures, even with Defiant to deter it. If you are even marginally incorrect in your positioning to where you cannot immediately punish Defog attempts, you can lose the hazard instantly. Considering how potent Corviknight is as a removal option, this is arguably even more pertinent. Healing Wish on Ribombee is flavorfully sound, and Ribombee specifically being such a fast Sticky Web user makes it a perfect candidate, though it lacking Stealth Rock does still make it probably inferior to Shuckle, but Healing Wish and Ribombee's incredible Speed tier may surge it to superiority. While this suggestion is a lot of fun mostly because it feels very in-tune with the playstyle and actively buffs its gameplan, this does nothing against Heavy-Duty Boots spam which is another gigantic weakness of the playstyle nowadays and is probably in my eyes the greatest reason Sticky Web has fallen off so hard. The tricky thing is that there's very little you can do there unless you have some sort of auto-Magic Room ability or something, so this feels like a reasonable step even if I don't think it will surge the playstyle to consistency.
 
oponions

:swampert: IMO Pert's number one issue right now is lack of longevity. Magic Bounce doesn't do enough to solve this problem: you would be an excellent check to certain mons like Heatran and a lot of status spammers (Blissey, non-PW Ferro), but you're still too easy to wear down and generally rather passive. Don't get me wrong, this is a legitimate buff, just not an outstanding or even understandable one.

:thundurus: This one's pretty safe in terms of viability. Spikes are quite strong and a setter that isn't slow as all hell would be a welcome addition to the tier. Thundy is also pretty awkward offensively given its got poor Physical Electric options and legitimately no Flying options, plus it's noticeably frail and tends to just die to attacks you didn't even plan on KOing it with, so I don't see thjs becoming too strong offensively, esp. when it wants to run Boots as it otherwise dies even faster. I like what this is going for.

:rotom-fan: Everyone is focusing on never-miss Hurricane and Thunder. Mate: you can click Will-O-Miss on this dude and not have to suffer that horribly deceptive accuracy penalty. Burn is really strong and has a lot of ways you can build around it with bulky wincons or Hex Dragapult, and here's a mon that can pretty reliably burn the opponent. Same goes for perfectly accurate Thunder Wave. This honestly sounds neat as an offensive support option, even if it does feel a tad mediocre in power and speed. Don't underestimate the potential of Electric/Flying STAB and strong utility options.

:ribombee: Webs would be better but the style is still matchup-dependent, somewhat luck-dependent, and will make you enemies. Having a fast option to get up Webs and then immediately die is useful, as is being able to bring a severely weakened sweeper right back to full.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top