Resource SS RU Viability Rankings (Crown Tundra)

gorex

penguin council
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s/o to Kolohe!

Sword and Shield RU Viability Rankings

Welcome to the third SS RU Viability Rankings Thread! Here, we as a community we will rank every viable Pokemon in rankings. Keep in mind that this thread is simply a reference list and should not be treated as anything more than that. Pokemon are arranged alphabetically within subranks. When posting about a drop / rise, especially for unranked Pokemon, remember to talk about how they actually got worst / better, and include replays to support your nomination.

Viability Thread Rules
  • Don't discuss anything in the blacklist (D Rank).
  • Avoid one liners and flesh out your post, but remain concise. This helps further the discussion and gives your post more credibility.
  • Do not derail the thread by asking "why did this move up/down". This is a discussion thread and posts like this don't add to the discussion. If you disagree about X Pokemon's placement, nominate it to move up/down. Similarly, do not derail the thread with other simple questions.
  • Should you want to nominate an unranked Pokemon, it will only be ranked if you have at least 3 replays showing the Pokemon being used successfully vs good teams and it must have a distinguishable niche seen in these replays.
  • If something didn't move up in the prior update, don't keep nominating it again and again unless a significant metagame shift occurs.
  • This thread has nothing to do with tiering. Remain civil when posting in this thread.

The Viability Rankings team comprises of:
Without further ado, here are the rankings!
New Drops
Nothing!

S Rank
Crobat
Flygon

A+ Rank
Incineroar
Milotic
Mimikyu
Registeel
Reuniclus
Togekiss

A Rank
Celebi
Golisopod
Heracross
Lucario
Metagross
Nidoqueen
Rhyperior
Xurkitree

A- Rank
Bewear
Chandelure
Gardevoir
Guzzlord
Heliolisk
Pangoro
Raikou
Sharpedo
Sigilyph
Steelix
Suicune
Tsareena
Umbreon

B+ Rank
Bronzong
Dhelmise
Escavalier
East Sea
Gastrodon
Jellicent
Klefki
Noivern
Roserade
Mow Rotom
Rotom-Mow
Snorlax
Stakataka
Starmie
Tornadus
Vileplume

B Rank
Aerodactyl
Diancie
Entei
Golurk
Salazzle
Seismitoad
Toxicroak
Toxtricity
Tyrantrum
Galarian Form
Weezing-Galar

B- Rank
Decidueye
Drapion
Goodra
Indeedee
Polteageist
Vaporeon
Xatu

C+ Rank
Abomasnow

Arctovish
Aurorus
Cloyster
Gigalith
Grimmsnarl
Kingdra
Linoone
Ludicolo
Alola Form
Marowak-Alola
Politoed
Quagsire
Alola Form
Sandslash-Alola
Sneasel
Talonflame
Vanilluxe

C Rank
Barbaracle
Charizard
Cresselia
Ditto
Doublade
Dragalge
Kabutops
Ninetales
Porygon2
Porygon-Z
Regidrago
Shiftry
Slurpuff

C- Rank
Drednaw
Ferroseed
Sableye
Zoroark

D Rank (blacklist)
Nothing!

Changelog
13/2/21 - Thundurus is removed after it got banned from the suspect
22/2/21 - VR Update detailed in the following post (click)
2/3/21 - Slowbro-Galar is removed after it got quickbanned in a council vote
16/3/21 - Zygarde-10% is removed after it got banned from the suspect
24/3/21 - VR Update detailed in the following post (click)
9/4/21 - Magnezone is removed after it rose to OU in the tier shift. Barraskewda is temporarily added in a "New Drop" section after it dropped from OU in the tier shift.
21/4/21 - VR Update detailed in the following post (click)
5/6/21 - VR Update detailed in the following post (click)
11/7/21 - Rhyperior and Zarude are removed after they rose in the tier shift. Ninetales-Alola and Quagsire are temporarily added in a "New Drops" section after they dropped to RU in the tier shift.
12/8/21 - VR Update detailed in the following
post (click). Mienshao is removed after it got banned from the suspect.
30/9/21 - VR Update detailed in the following
post (click). Durant is removed after it got banned from the suspect. Arctozolt is removed after it got banned from UU.
29/10/21 - Barraskewda, Ninetales-Alola, and Seismitoad have been removed as they are no longer in the tier.
5/12/21 - VR Update detailed in the following
post (click).
17/2/22 - VR Update detailed in the following post (click). Necrozma is removed after it got banned from the suspect.
1/6/22 - VR Update detailed in the following
post (click). Cobalion, Obstagoon, Volcanion, and Darmanitan have been removed as they are no longer in the tier. Torkoal too.
9/9/22 - VR Update detailed in the following
post (click).
 
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First looking at this, the tier looks absolutely FLAMES to play and it also is flames to play, with some blessed picks you can be creative with. However, i do have some things i disagree with in points and i'll put out some noms i see, aswell as some questions i wanna ask simply cause i don't get the decisions behind them.

Rises

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A to A+
Role Compression at its finest, this mon is such a good way to condense roles onto your team. With both a water AND electric immunity, it becomes the premier Raikou answer in the tier, as well as fitting rocks, fire resist, a check to Rain, and a potential Knock user to remove boots from Zarude. The roles it fills all at once are so nice to be able to ease teambuilding, and in practice, is very nice and holding things back with support from heal bell users like Togekiss and Sylveon, and thus I think a rise can be argued for at minimum, though I don't think it's currently being undersold per say, I do think it's role compression is so powerful to warrant discussion.

1610297399484.png
B+ to A-
Before you read this, Go look at S and A+ real quickly and look back at a scarf head smash. This Pokemon is capable of being a fantastic cleaner with the Scarf set on offense, and in my eyes comparable to Stakataka in this role of just dumpstering offense, but what sets it apart in my eyes from Stakakakakataka, is the ability to use different sets if it wants to. Choice Band and Dragon dance, while sets I've not used yet, certainly hold merit as alot of Pokemon can be used as entry in the tier. For example, Togekiss can be used as a rather safe entry as a lot of Togekiss run mono air slash, with bell fog roost and the final slots. If it's twave and your Tyrantrum eats a twave, as I've mentioned, Togekiss/Sylveon runs heal bell really well, allowing it to potentially get another shot at it. Also among this is Crobat, and Incineroar, and potentially even Zarude as a setup option in the late game if its the common Max HP and speed 3 attacks set, can be used to set up a dragon dance, or claim a body with the Banded set. This is why i feel its on par with stakataka, while it loses on the defensive utility, it still has some but makes up for it with Variety in its sets, which besides Banded, stakataka doesn't have. Which is why I think this Nom is a valid point.

1610298091848.png
C+to B-
This pokemon is, like Tyrantrum, a fantastic option to both clean Offense, and Balance with both its Scarf and Specs sets. Besides like Registeel, this is a pokemon the tier does NOT like switching into at all. Dude i swapped into my Metagross on the mon and took 58% from specs. I know this is un-invested in bulk, but keep in mind Cobalion is still frailer than Metagross on paper, as well as the fact that a lot of the steel types have not only no recovery, but other Pokemon they need to deal with. While this is a concept i haven't tried, i can see Normal Spam being used to good affect with options like Bewear, Pory-Z, Exploud, Obstagoon Indeedee, and even Tauros/Linoone being solid options. Pressuring the steels in tandem. Aswell as the fact that this Pokemon is not in the same realm as Celebi as a threat that's just slanderous I feel, and why a rise is in order. It may have little defensive utility but i think it's breaking/cleaning strength is enough to give it a rise.

As for Questions, i only really have one.

1610299705337.png

I understand this mon is really strong and terrifying in hail and damn near uncounterable during hail. But the ice cream, the only hail setter is sitting in C+, and outside of hail this mon is mediocore and doesn't really break as well as it does in hail. Normally a weather abuser with little role outside of it is in the same tier or 1 below the weather setter itself, as shown by all the other weather setters and their abusing partners, so i don't see why this isn't in those tiers, as the same can be applied to the others in their weather, like Shiftry. If there's another role it serves outside of Hail i'll retract this but I don't see the role it fills to have it as high as this.

1610296403117.png
1610297399484.png
1610298091848.png
1610298818844.png
1610299705337.png
 

Aquarius Ghost ❤

Banned deucer.
Hi, I just wanted to say, thank you to VR team for making a great VR list for us!! Anyway, lemme get on to my post.

:ss/stunfisk-galar: From UR to C+
I personally think Stunfisk-G is very reliable Pokemon in the meta right now, mainly because it is able to threaten the broken Electric types in the tier, such as Toxtricity, Thundurus, and Xurkitree. Stunfisk-Galar also provides nice utility as being a specially defensive rocker. Yes, it does differ from the other steels in RU because it can't be annoyed by Togekiss.(not np set, and also doesn't have toxic) I have personally been running Snap trap / Earthquake/ Stealth rocks / Stone edge. Now the main reason I have snap trap is because it can trap opposing steels and threaten them with an Earthquake while also stopping them from being able to recover health from lefties, if your wondering, snap trap does 12% for 5 straight turns, while lefties heals u for 6% do the math, to save you some time its gonna be 60:30 ratio for every 5 turns + 4 Atk Stunfisk-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 128-152 (35.1 - 41.7%) -- 78% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Now in total every 5 turns your gonna do 30% from snap trap to the Registeel and 35%-40% every turn you Earthquake the Registeel. So to basically sum this up your gonna have the winning Mu vs Registeel.(unless its Body Press + Iron Defense, unsets smh). Now going back to my first sentence, you may be like, " Oh, but doesn't thundy just focus blast the Stunfisk-G and win." Which you are partially correct, thundy can just focus blast and claim the kill, however, Stunfisk-Galar is indeed able to chip thundy a lot from a stone edge, hence why I said "it can threaten it." Lemme show you a quick calc:
4 Atk Stunfisk-Galar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 162-192 (54.1 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Stunfisk-Galar: 206-244 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
In the end this will come down to a roll.
To sum it all up, Stunfisk-G is overall a very reliable mon, provides great utility and helps vs some of the brokens.


:Suicune::Xatu::Stunfisk-Galar::Slowbro-Galar::Tangela::Weezing-Galar: This is the team i have been using, I will go more in depth when I post it in the Ru Bazaar. (click on sprites for team)
 
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Aight, my turn


Entei from B+ to B
Legit Entei looks out of place at B+, placed among Pokemon with defined and valuable roles. Meanwhile, Entei will inevitably get compared to Darmanitan as a physical Fire at a similar Speed tier, and unfortunately Darmanitan’s access to U-turn is such a big advantage for keeping up momentum that it’s usually the more preferred option, even with Entei’s bulk and Extreme Speed. However, even if we look at Entei just by itself, it’s still a mon that outpaces some useful things like Mimikyu and Roserade while easily spreading burns with its best move, and emergency priority if needed. Issue is that teams are already prepared with mons that can handle physical Fire moves, and a lot of the time that means a fat Water that a burn isn’t the most significant against. This means Entei struggles to make too much happen by itself, and while this is sometimes fine, Entei doesn’t do particularly well against the Electrics or Zydog, making it less valuable while building. Extreme Speed is nice but not strong enough to make you feel comfortable against anything just by having it, unlike something like Golisopod’s priority. Initially I was actually going to advocate for lower, but after using boots with Toxic, I can settle with B. Waters switch in predictably enough for Entei to Toxic them, and in this case avoid being locked in, while boots lets you reliably fall back on it a few times for Sylveon and Zarude.
Edit: sike I’d drop this even further to B- after thinking about it


Registeel from A to A-
A nom I don’t feel quite as strong about, but that was a bit of a high bar cus Entei in B+ :smogduck: My main gripe with Registeel is that it’s a little too easy to take advantage of given some current trends. It’s nice to have the raw bulk to check Electrics and things like Togekiss, but if said Electrics pack Volt Switch alongside things like Alolawak and Heracross, Registeel starts becoming a liability in that role. Not matching up favorably against other common utility mons like Coba/Toad/Lix means Registeel can’t get as many comfortable early game match-ups. It’s also free invitation for fatter wincons like Galarbro and Suicune, and gets pressured by Spikes, especially since it’s not threatening the main setters in Roserade and Golisopod that hard. Its niche as a fat Fairy-resist can be pretty useful and if you support it well, it can be obnoxious with status and possibly some IronPress stuff, but vs some teams I don’t feel it can keep up enough to stay A rank.


Golurk to B
Apparently VR team straight up forget about this mon, otherwise I’m sure this would’ve been planted in B ranks somewhere already. CB Golurk benefits from strong Ghost STAB being absurdly spammable, with the most common resist in Zarude getting obliterated by CC. While Adamant is viable, reaching levels of power comparable to Adamant Alolawak, Jolly’s a nice option since mons like Seismitoad and Milotic are less willing to outspeed a Jolly Golurk compared to Adamant, letting you safely 2HKO them on the switch. Golurk’s not strictly just a kill button either, having it lets you always have a way to check CM Reuni and Galarbro, as long as they have their items. It also completely neuters Toxtricity’s best moves and makes Cobalion and Xurkitree think twice about Volt Switching freely. Being resistant to rocks is quite useful, letting you pull tricks like surviving Zydog T-arrows and potentially getting a kill in return. Getting it in’s kind of annoying, and it’s certainly not a great check to other Electrics, but it’s definitely something worth supporting with simple VoltTurn and stuff to handle Roserade and Volcanion.

Ignore my ugly plays but https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1259681293 is just an example of tricks Golurk can pull off, threatening Zydog and Crobat since Golurk survived a hit from both and got a kill both times
 
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zizalith

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Moderator
this is a very nice starting vr. one thing i noticed is that the c ranks are barren outside of like, weather. here are a few mons i have used throughout the dark times of no vr ru which i think might possess some sort of valuable niche. these might be kinda out there but dunno, might as well post abt them cause they've been working out well for me


:golurk:to B/B-
dang jmash posted abt golurk before me but yeah this mon is definitely still cool, somewhat hard to build with cause despite the good defensive typing it still doesn't safely switch into much but i can definitely see it around B or B-. i do feel like alolan marowak does outclass it in a lot of ways bc they are both slow wallbreaking ghosts with an electric immunity, hitting around the same power level, but it clearly has a distinct niche and its good enough to be ranked somewhere. not taking rocks damage like marowak does is huge and eases a lot of pressure from the hazard remover.

:dhelmise:to C+
I've really been liking dhelmise in this meta. of course, being a grass that isnt zarude and also loses to zarude is really bad, but in a tier with both limited zygarde resists and limited rapid spinners (seriously, our only spinner is starmie, and it isnt even its best set) dhelmise offers some really valuable role compression that works well on some teams, especially on spikes builds that don't want removal to defog their hazards away. I've been running both synth stabs sets and trapper rest with anchor shot, both have different mus in which they excel at and can completely negate rockers like seismitoad, diancie, and registeel, which then can let you be a lot more creative in your building instead of slapping on mono duty boots (i know i do this). i see dhelmise as a very similar mon to celebi in this meta in that they both offer some very cool stuff if you can build around their weaknesses, but are obviously a lot less applicable than zarude. its also a way more reliable zygarde check than zarude, seeing as how most run superpower and foregoing outrage seems to be a common trend now, which means its best move to hit dhelmise is stone edge.

:flygon:to C/C+
even though zygarde is definitely a better mon overall, i think scarf flygon has a clear niche in a tier infested with electric types. this is one of the best offensive electric immunes we have (its......... a low bar), as you can switch in mostly safely against raikou and np thund and revenge them, as well as blocking xurk's stabs which prevents it from being a spammable threat. you can even live a dgleam from full with a little bit of investment. pivoting is always good, and even though it hits like a paper bag you can always afford to run toxic last slot for stuff like milotic or utility in defog. basically does the same things its always done, just that its rlly good defensive typing is more relevant in this meta.

:abomasnow::arctovish:to C/C-
I'm pairing these two together because to me these represent dedicated hail teams. vanilluxe + zolt will be a better core in nearly every other scenario, however, i don't see how full hail isnt ranked when sun and rain are about as viable - all mu reliant offenses that can deal with different types of building styles in the tier. hail teams are way better at corebreaking than sun and rain imo, although the point where they struggle with is the low speed of the hail abusers and the defensive awkwardness of needing 3 ice types on a team. still though, it is for sure underexplored and i think its definitely around as viable as the other full weathers.

i think arctovish is a staple on full hail bc forms a really potent hail core with arctozolt, being able to come into usual switchins like steelix or stakataka and scaring them out with fishious rend. almost everything else on hail teams can deal with bulky waters, which are its #1 enemy, and if one of the hail sweepers goes down, the other can just pick up where they left off.

abomasnow is better on full hail than vanilluxe or aurorus because slots on the archetype are already really strapped - you generally want to do hail setter / arctozolt / arctovish / weather ball electric / fillers, with fire and fighting resist and hazard removal in those slots. abomasnow>vanilluxe gives you a much needed zygarde resist which is extremely hard to slot on hail otherwise, being able to pick it off with ice shard easily, as well as giving you a bulky water switchin that can blast them with leaf storm.



on the topic of weathers, i think these definitely need to be standardized for the next update, cause it is pretty confusing as it is. all the full sun staples are in the same tier but hail and rain should also be the same. that means all the rain staples should be either C rank or C- rank (because no one is running politoad without kingdra and kabutops), while arctozolt and vanilluxe would move to either B, B-, or C+ cuz zolt outside of hail is unviable which isnt the impression you get from looking at the vr.

other noms i agree with or don't wanna go in depth on:
:registeel: to A-
:entei: to B
:stunfisk-galar: to C+/C
:magnezone: to B-
:obstagoon: to B+

that's all from me, thanks for reading!:psyglad:
 
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Sputnik

Bono My Tires are Deceased
is a Contributor to Smogon
Zizalith robbed me a bit on this one but I would like to give a more thorough nomination that I've been working on, so consider this a detailed reason on why I agree with Zizalith I guess lol

:ss/flygon:

UR -> C

Flygon has a rather narrow but still very interesting niche in the RU metagame. Like Zizalith describes, Flygon is actually one of our best offensive Electric immunities, although it admittedly doesn't have much competition for this role. Raikou and Thundurus are both cleanly revenge killed, and you can also mess with Xurkitree to a decent degree.

This is obviously Flygon's main niche; its defensive utility. Scarf Flygon also has other defensive advantages that make it worth considering. Unlike Zydog, Flygon also packs Levitate, which has a few useful applications. It allows Flygon a few extra one-time switch in opportunities into some Rhyperior sets, as well as an immunity to Spikes which makes Flygon a rather resilient Choice Scarf user. Furthermore, the pivoting provided on Flygon is quite useful, as it allows it to pivot out of bad matchups, such as Togekiss, as well as applying extreme amounts of pressure on Zarude. I have been finding great success with Flygon in a VoltTurn chain, as it provides said VoltTurns with its defensive utility, and its ability to draw in Pokemon such as Togekiss and Seismitoad leads to ample opportunities for its partners; Thundurus is my current favorite, as the two have excellent offensive synergy while U-turning all over the opposition. Flygon also provides secondary resists to typings such as Fire and Rock, which is always nice to have.


Unfortunately neither of the above replays showcases a Raikou or Thundurus matchup, however it does show how well Flygon functions with Thundurus and the pressure they exert; Flygon also proves to be dangerous late game in the second game as well, forcing the opponent into a lose-lose situation.

In conclusion, I am in full agreement that Flygon should be ranked, as it is a useful Choice Scarfer that has a niche due to its ability to deal with many of our most threatening Electric-types and have useful defensive utility that can be taken advantage of by your team.
 
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HailFall

my cancer is sun and my leo is moon
:klefki: B -> B+
Klefki is a great steel and def not as niche as stuff like cress. The ability to set up spikes is terrifying alongside mons like zydog and its a pretty good check to stuff like togekiss/dragalge/necrozma. Its main competition is metagross but the ability to be a soft zarude check + set up spikes + prankster twave makes it at least b+ imo. Quite good in this meta

:zygarde-10%: A -> A+
This one might be more controversial but zydog is nuts. Minimal chip allows it to blast past common "checks" like togekiss and milotic while zarude is very easily OHKOed after a tiny bit of chip or rocks. Theres very little you can do to be truly "safe" from zydog especially considering half the mons that can switch into tarrows get 2hkoed by outrage. On top of this it has a fantastic speed tier and access to espeed for cleaning. Its typing forces u to think twice before clicking volt switch against its team and we have tons of pivots like noivern, zarude, cobalion, etc to bring it in safely. This is a ridiculously consistent wallbreaker and one of the most potent offensive threats in the tier.
 

Oathkeeper

"Wait!" he says, do I look like a waiter?
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:ss/dhelmise: -> C+

Agreeing with zizalith here and I'm starting to see why. Given how many top tier threats we have, I can see how this anchor is extremely useful. I mean, just look at how many of these threats it can come in on and then shake off whatever damage is dealt to it. We're talkin' our Electric types (Thundy, Raikou to an extent, and Xurk), Cobalion, Galarbro, Milotic, Reuniclus, Toad (as ziza said), and of course Zydog (also as ziza said). This thing just recovers whatever laughable damage is dealt to it and can deliver a heavy retaliation move once it's done just that. Why it's unranked right now, I'm not sure but I think the time is right for it be in C+.​
 
I would like to propose some drops:

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from A- to B+

It's main niche as a trick room abuser is not as good as it was when it dropped, given the shift from offense to balance in the tier. Outside of that, I have seen little exploration with other sets or are mediocre compared to the standard TR abuser (choiced sacrifices momentum when it gets kills, offensive with -def nature doesn't take hits as well). Finally, I don't see it having the same impact on the tier as Toxtricity, darmanitan, suicune or sharpedo.
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from B to B-

While it can shred unprepared teams with ease, specially the mixed set, the speed tier is less than stellar, being revenge killed by any scarfer over base 90 (or garde) and struggling against some common defensive mons depending on the set (full atk investment loses to steelix, mixed struggles against weezing G, registeel can eat a hit and cripple it with toxic). It's still menacing as heck, but no B material for now.
 
I would rather like to propose a rise

:Lanturn: from UR to B-/C+

I feel Lanturn has a solid spot in the metagame right now. It has everything you could want as a pivot, a bulky water with an electric immunity which is huge right now. Its specially defensive set allows it to be a borderline stone wall to the absurd electrics right now (dont worry Grass Knot from +4 Thundurus still wont 2HKO and neither will a Xurkitree Energy Ball) and even has the ability to be a soft check to strong neutral moves i.e., (252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 232+ SpD Lanturn: 186-220 (40.9 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery). Lanturn also serves as an excellent pivot into the A tier birds to allow momentum or beat late game with the combination of Ice Beam and Volt Switch. And regardless of the spdef investment, it still eats physical fire moves up. Anyways, I think its time to show Lanturn some love.
 
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Expulso

Morse code, if I'm talking I'm clicking
is a Social Media Contributoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
hi, ive been playing a lot lately and enjoy the tier rn, here are some changes i'd recommend to more accurately reflect the current meta (prior to possible thundurus ban):

Unranked Pokemon:
:dhelmise: Dhelmise: UR -> B or B+
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1274928988-663ju590t626rix3x5blzzo16l0tyuzpw (Sorry I didnt save more of it, can edit them in in the future)

Dhelmise is prob the best Spinner in the game rn, you remove Rocks vs SR Toad, Rhyp, and Cobalion very reliably while also being a good offensive check to Electric-types and Zygarde-10%. Your STABs also hit evertything but Zarude hard, and chipping Zarude is never bad esp with teammates to switch in.

:flygon: Flygon: UR -> B
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1269936168-xc36braj3zpdutko4v6jp0byesamfo4pw <- I swept with a scarf flygon in RU in the year 2021 yoooo my life is a movie

Flygon is a good offensive Electric check, Scarf Flygon can actually sweep!!!! You threaten a 2HKO on Toge with Edge, then most teams find themselves unprepared to deal with its STABs + a very spammable Uturn.

:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl: UR -> C+ yeah theres some real trash in there and aero is at least fringe useful as punnys series showed (also an offensive check to toge! yay!)

:lycanroc: Lycanroc: UR -> C toge good = rock types good probably. this is 100% theorymon LOL but i think im right w this, B- and below have such junk SURELYYY this isnt terrible. it has an actual niche i swear!


=====
A Rank:

:zygarde-10%: Zygarde-10%: A -> A+ - CB TArrows hits almost the whole meta hard; you can also bop Toge/Golis with Stone Edge, sweep late-game with Scale Shot or ESpeed, and do other demonic stuff like glare / toxic if u want to get creative. Mostly, tarrows go brr. It's one of the best offensive electric checks in the tier and one of the scariest mons to be facing late-game, particularly with Superpower to dispose of Zarude, which is typically the only TArrows resist on a lot of teams.

:reuniclus: Reuniclus: A -> A+ - Reuni is imo one of the best mons in the tier, AV is very splashable, chips things amazingly well while checking some of the tier's biggest threats. CM sets are extremely intimidating win cons as seen below.

Its bulk gives it a ton of opportunities vs neutral threats like Cobalion, versatility in sets and what it can do (remove items! future sight support! wall special threats! or be one of the tier's best win cons!) make it an A+ mon in my eyes.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1274928988-663ju590t626rix3x5blzzo16l0tyuzpw

And a more controversial one, perhaps:
:seismitoad: Seismitoad: A -> A+ - SEISMIC TODD!!! man it's so splashable even in a meta run by zarude bc knock its boots and it starts getting worn down! My only issue with it is that it struggles to threaten back removal like Noivern or Togekiss (especially Heal Bell) with the same immediacy that, say, Rhyperior does. However, in return you get arguably the single most splashable Pokemon in the tier.

If not worthy of a promotion, these 2 stand out to me as clearly the best Pokemon in A, with Seismitoad also in contention for that distinction (and a possible rise, A+ kinda crowded though)

:milotic: Milotic: A -> A-
:crobat: Crobat: A -> A- or B+
Milotic and Crobat both seem unimpressive. I'd almost always prefer Vern>Bat. Milotic is a good mon but doesn't offer that much over Seismitoad or Gastrodon to the point where I'd consider it an A rank mon (especially with Gastrodon in B+).

=====
A- Rank:

:stakataka: Stakataka: A- -> B+ - Agree with Fabi_ODST entirely.

:sylveon: Sylveon: A- -> B+ - Specs is a good special attacker, runs into MU issues sometimes (e.g. AV Psychics / P2 / Spdef Regi or Meta + another resist) but also gets good MUs. Sadly even without resists opposing fast teams can out offense it due to the low speed tier and bad physical bulk. Cleric sets dont have much of a niche at all over Togekiss.

:toxtricity: Toxtricity: A- -> A - An absolute fuckin DEMON. This mon hits incredibly hard, prob the hardest special hitter in the tier, while also having a useful typing that gives it opportunities vs staples like Togekiss, CM Gbro, and pretty much anything slower if it gets in safely at 100% - not a hard feat with the tier's 50 pivots.


one's im unsure abt / just want to discuss:

:suicune: Suicune: MAYBE A- -> B+ - Sure, it can win games, but it's pretty damn rare for one to do so right now. Feels like a fairly deadweight mon in a lot of common matchups, I don't think the current meta has been kind to it. It can still adapt with, say, max spatk Ice Beam, but I don't think it's as big a threat as mons like Chandelure or Toxtricity.

I'm open to it staying A- but think it's definitely a mon in decline so I want to open this discussion.

:chandelure: Chandelure: MAYBE A- -> A: Ive used it a good amount and it claims kills very consistently barring absolutely perfect prediction from your opponent, Wisp/Tox + Hex + strong af Fire Blast is really intimidating. However it can be forced out by a lot of things and doesn't rly want to switch directly into any attacks so I'm fine with it staying in A- too.

:durant: :obstagoon: Durant and Obstagoon: MAYBE A- -> B+ - I've built with Ant a lot, see teambuilding comp thread - i had a lot of tries at it. It wears itself down very quickly, doesn't rly do what you count on a steel-type to do, and on top of that has 80% accuracy. That aside, it can almost always trade at least. However it needs a lot of support, opens big defensive holes, and isnt very reliable.

Obstagoon seems to have similar issues, though I haven't used it. It seems very hard to make work. however, both are such big threats that I'm fine with leaving them in A- too.

=======
B+ Rank:

:entei: Entei: B+ -> B- - atrocious mon with no niche over other fires in the tier
:gardevoir: Gardevoir: B+ -> B - very rare, gets few switch-ins to everything (fairy that isnt dark resist is not it rn)
:indeedee: Indeedee: B+ -> B - Most common mon in tier being a Dark type is not kind to it, along with AV Psychics, Registeel, and Metagross making Expanding Force at an all-time low in spammability
:tyrantrum: Tyrantrum: B+ -> B or B- - this seems like a very on-paper mon to me, weird to have it alongside meta staples like gastro and golis

:gastrodon: Gastrodon: B+ -> A- - great as the premier Gbro answer while threatening Zarudes with Ice Beam and walling misc neutral threats like Noivern. Very splashable if you, say, use Meta or Cobal for SR then want a Seismitoad but feel that it is redundant (or dislike its inability to hit Togekiss hard as a rocker)

========

B rank:
:porygon2: Porygon2: B -> B+ - lots of strong special attackers, this has less offensive presence than snorlax but man is it reliable lol. THis mon will never be bad, much less on a level with random shit like helio cress zozoark which are??
:klefki: Klefki: B -> B+ - very splashable spiker, due to zarude's commonness it gets more chances than the others honestly. rocky helmet is great on it too if u wanna chip the monkey. Twave support is demonic alongside threats like Togekiss
:snorlax: Snorlax: B -> A- - GREAT mon right now, EQ does like 60 to most steels, para support is awesome, you're extrmely useful as a sponge to things that trouble BO like Chandelure, Noivern, and the like while also spreading para and securing balance teams against bulky set-up sweepers like Gbro and Reun.


Not bothering with the rest of the B - C+ mons, yea, there's some real garbage in there haha. maybe i'll dig in and try some unexplored threats, but in a meta like this there's promising stuff i haven't used as high as A-.

Hope this is helpful to straighten out the higher ranks and highlight some underrated threats!! Feel free to hmu on cord if u want to discuss there, or reply here, I'm enjoying this meta for sure so happy to talk abt it
 
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hi, ive been playing a lot lately and enjoy the tier rn, here are some changes i'd recommend to more accurately reflect the current meta (prior to possible thundurus ban):

Unranked Pokemon:
:dhelmise: Dhelmise: UR -> B or B+
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1274928988-663ju590t626rix3x5blzzo16l0tyuzpw (Sorry I didnt save more of it, can edit them in in the future)

Dhelmise is prob the best Spinner in the game rn, you remove Rocks vs SR Toad, Rhyp, and Cobalion very reliably while also being a good offensive check to Electric-types and Zygarde-10%. Your STABs also hit evertything but Zarude hard, and chipping Zarude is never bad esp with teammates to switch in.

:flygon: Flygon: UR -> B
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1269936168-xc36braj3zpdutko4v6jp0byesamfo4pw <- I swept with a scarf flygon in RU in the year 2021 yoooo my life is a movie

Flygon is a good offensive Electric check, Scarf Flygon can actually sweep!!!! You threaten a 2HKO on Toge with Edge, then most teams find themselves unprepared to deal with its STABs + a very spammable Uturn.

:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl: UR -> C+ yeah theres some real trash in there and aero is at least fringe useful as punnys series showed (also an offensive check to toge! yay!)

:lycanroc: Lycanroc: UR -> C toge good = rock types good probably. this is 100% theorymon LOL but i think im right w this, B- and below have such junk SURELYYY this isnt terrible. it has an actual niche i swear!


=====
A Rank:

:zygarde-10%: Zygarde-10%: A -> A+ - CB TArrows hits almost the whole meta hard; you can also bop Toge/Golis with Stone Edge, sweep late-game with Scale Shot or ESpeed, and do other demonic stuff like glare / toxic if u want to get creative. Mostly, tarrows go brr. It's one of the best offensive electric checks in the tier and one of the scariest mons to be facing late-game, particularly with Superpower to dispose of Zarude, which is typically the only TArrows resist on a lot of teams.

:reuniclus: Reuniclus: A -> A+ - Reuni is imo one of the best mons in the tier, AV is very splashable, chips things amazingly well while checking some of the tier's biggest threats. CM sets are extremely intimidating win cons as seen below.

Its bulk gives it a ton of opportunities vs neutral threats like Cobalion, versatility in sets and what it can do (remove items! future sight support! wall special threats! or be one of the tier's best win cons!) make it an A+ mon in my eyes.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1274928988-663ju590t626rix3x5blzzo16l0tyuzpw

And a more controversial one, perhaps:
:seismitoad: Seismitoad: A -> A+ - SEISMIC TODD!!! man it's so splashable even in a meta run by zarude bc knock its boots and it starts getting worn down! My only issue with it is that it struggles to threaten back removal like Noivern or Togekiss (especially Heal Bell) with the same immediacy that, say, Rhyperior does. However, in return you get arguably the single most splashable Pokemon in the tier.

If not worthy of a promotion, these 2 stand out to me as clearly the best Pokemon in A, with Seismitoad also in contention for that distinction (and a possible rise, A+ kinda crowded though)

:milotic: Milotic: A -> A-
:crobat: Crobat: A -> A- or B+
Milotic and Crobat both seem unimpressive. I'd almost always prefer Vern>Bat. Milotic is a good mon but doesn't offer that much over Seismitoad or Gastrodon to the point where I'd consider it an A rank mon (especially with Gastrodon in B+).

=====
A- Rank:

:stakataka: Stakataka: A- -> B+ - Agree with Fabi_ODST entirely.

:sylveon: Sylveon: A- -> B+ - Specs is a good special attacker, runs into MU issues sometimes (e.g. AV Psychics / P2 / Spdef Regi or Meta + another resist) but also gets good MUs. Sadly even without resists opposing fast teams can out offense it due to the low speed tier and bad physical bulk. Cleric sets dont have much of a niche at all over Togekiss.

:toxtricity: Toxtricity: A- -> A - An absolute fuckin DEMON. This mon hits incredibly hard, prob the hardest special hitter in the tier, while also having a useful typing that gives it opportunities vs staples like Togekiss, CM Gbro, and pretty much anything slower if it gets in safely at 100% - not a hard feat with the tier's 50 pivots.


one's im unsure abt / just want to discuss:

:suicune: Suicune: MAYBE A- -> B+ - Sure, it can win games, but it's pretty damn rare for one to do so right now. Feels like a fairly deadweight mon in a lot of common matchups, I don't think the current meta has been kind to it. It can still adapt with, say, max spatk Ice Beam, but I don't think it's as big a threat as mons like Chandelure or Toxtricity.

I'm open to it staying A- but think it's definitely a mon in decline so I want to open this discussion.

:chandelure: Chandelure: MAYBE A- -> A: Ive used it a good amount and it claims kills very consistently barring absolutely perfect prediction from your opponent, Wisp/Tox + Hex + strong af Fire Blast is really intimidating. However it can be forced out by a lot of things and doesn't rly want to switch directly into any attacks so I'm fine with it staying in A- too.

:durant: :obstagoon: Durant and Obstagoon: MAYBE A- -> B+ - I've built with Ant a lot, see teambuilding comp thread - i had a lot of tries at it. It wears itself down very quickly, doesn't rly do what you count on a steel-type to do, and on top of that has 80% accuracy. That aside, it can almost always trade at least. However it needs a lot of support, opens big defensive holes, and isnt very reliable.

Obstagoon seems to have similar issues, though I haven't used it. It seems very hard to make work. however, both are such big threats that I'm fine with leaving them in A- too.

=======
B+ Rank:

:entei: Entei: B+ -> B- - atrocious mon with no niche over other fires in the tier
:gardevoir: Gardevoir: B+ -> B - very rare, gets few switch-ins to everything (fairy that isnt dark resist is not it rn)
:indeedee: Indeedee: B+ -> B - Most common mon in tier being a Dark type is not kind to it, along with AV Psychics, Registeel, and Metagross making Expanding Force at an all-time low in spammability
:tyrantrum: Tyrantrum: B+ -> B or B- - this seems like a very on-paper mon to me, weird to have it alongside meta staples like gastro and golis

:gastrodon: Gastrodon: B+ -> A- - great as the premier Gbro answer while threatening Zarudes with Ice Beam and walling misc neutral threats like Noivern. Very splashable if you, say, use Meta or Cobal for SR then want a Seismitoad but feel that it is redundant (or dislike its inability to hit Togekiss hard as a rocker)

========

B rank:
:porygon2: Porygon2: B -> B+ - lots of strong special attackers, this has less offensive presence than snorlax but man is it reliable lol. THis mon will never be bad, much less on a level with random shit like helio cress zozoark which are??
:klefki: Klefki: B -> B+ - very splashable spiker, due to zarude's commonness it gets more chances than the others honestly. rocky helmet is great on it too if u wanna chip the monkey. Twave support is demonic alongside threats like Togekiss
:snorlax: Snorlax: B -> A- - GREAT mon right now, EQ does like 60 to most steels, para support is awesome, you're extrmely useful as a sponge to things that trouble BO like Chandelure, Noivern, and the like while also spreading para and securing balance teams against bulky set-up sweepers like Gbro and Reun.


Not bothering with the rest of the B - C+ mons, yea, there's some real garbage in there haha. maybe i'll dig in and try some unexplored threats, but in a meta like this there's promising stuff i haven't used as high as A-.

Hope this is helpful to straighten out the higher ranks and highlight some underrated threats!! Feel free to hmu on cord if u want to discuss there, or reply here, I'm enjoying this meta for sure so happy to talk abt it
Alongside my own noms, i can attest to Lycanroc being solid, It'll pretty much always have something to kill since each team has their dedicated Bird, being Noivern, Crobat and Togekiss. I used it a fair amount on spikestack but that style is out of a job rlly since Thundurus got yoinked. Speaking of togekiss....



A+ -> S In my eyes the single best pokemon in the tier, if not second. It provides so much things for you in 1 slot, comparable to Zarude in splashability, and I'd argue more reliable than Zarude because for the most part the things that check Zarude have natural recovery more often than not, being the aforementioned birds, Weezing-Galar, and other things without recovery like the keys to the whitehouse, Cobalion, and other soft checks like Heracross. Togekiss's checks/counters usually really don't have recovery and can be worn down pretty easily in comparison. Each electric, the steels, and Rhyperior don't have much besides leftovers/boots keeping them around. That's not all though because for the 2nd two options can sometimes just be teched flamethrower/mystical fire and just lose. Even beyond this point togekiss has alot of things. I'd argue it holds off things equally as well to Zarude, with things like Mienshao, Heracross, opposing Zarude perfectly, while providing dual immunities to Dragon and Ground.

Beyond defensive checking, it provides more team utility than alot of pokemon. Packing both Cleric and hazard support is a trait only really shared by Weezing and Weezing has more troubles fitting both compared to Togekiss, aswell as lacking reliable recovery. These aren't the only sets it can run though, Scarf togekiss, while not a set i actively really like, has merit as it's almost always a walking win condition in the same vein a scarf jirachi would be. It's also a walking wallbreaker in any set it has really, as alot of setup fatties like Snorlax and Slowbro, who are honestly damn terrifying at preview no matter what, can just get flinched and lose. Thundurus ban also really helps it as alongside removal of a natural predator for it, it's the main defiant user in the tier that would be able to block fog a good amount of times.

Rapidfire other noms

C+ -> B- Really pairs well on teams who want to prey on Togekiss, using Pivoters Togekiss comes in on often to bring it in is common enough with Zarude n Mienshao, i find it way better as a Singular offensive pick than a Hail support, while also providing Veil for a potential cleaner for a demon like Necrozma.

B+ to C+ This Mon blows, it's literally got nothing to do when i can just use other fires that can do something to Starmie n Milotic or any other water we have like Darm, Chandy and even Volcanion.

B- to C+ Dude Zarude is on every team, for the same reason why suicune struggles this pokemon struggles even more, Zarude will never lose to this mon unless the opponent has a stroke and lets you recover back to a sash or just keep in intact, and just have Zarude low by the time that happens, at that point its not the mon being good its the opp being bad.

B to B+ This pokemon is really slept on i feel, invalidating alot of waters and forcing out Togekiss is really a good trait, while being a soft check to Zarude to boot, this thing is way better than Barbaracle. Speaking of Barb...

B to B- Worse Cloyster with even more Strained setup options. It also requires to risk missing more than Cloyster while being more prone to revenge killing off even worse bulk, and suffers the same problem Cloyster has of needing jolly to outspeed ScarfShao at +2.

A- to A On god this pokemon is gross, entry = kill for both offense and balance, unless you run a Porygon2 which isn't as easy to fit. Truthfully i'd support a suspect test on this thing as well as Zygarde for similar reasons of slaughtering both the builder and the battle but that's a whole different discussion
 

Adaam

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S rank should be the trifecta of monke, Glowbro, and and Noivern. The former two are pretty agreed on as beasts, but I find Noivern to be the most splashable mon in the tier and hard to justify not using one. Its speed tier is the most relevant fast mon (Crobat sucks balls) and fastest mon Noivern is more than enough to get by. Going through S to A-, Noivern revenge kills more than half and can play the long game against stuff like Rhyperior or Registeel by continuously chipping them with Draco/Flame respectively and then U-Turning out.

It's hard stopped by Togekiss which might seem problematic, but a simple tech of Toxic > Uturn and suddenly you've OHKOd that pos (I've been told they do not use Heal Bell) and still have your healthy bat around to annoy the enemy team. Sylveon seems super out of favor besides Specs since Toge is just better as a bulky mon, while Steel-types like Steelix and Metagross absolutely do not check it. It's super easy to find yourself weak to Vern long term and I think S should reflect that status. It also checks monke, and monke is god.

Personally I find Glowbro broken. At +1 there are like, 2 Pokemon that KO it with Alolan Marowak and Specs Chandelure, none of which switch into it and both are weak to rocks and are thus outlastable. Other stuff like Obstagoon or Monke do like 70%, die to +1 Sludge Bomb, and then Glowbro is back to 100% in 10 turns via Regen. The best way to handle it is with bulky Haze mons or setup sweepers like Suicune, Reuniclus, or Snorlax. Snorlax is great, but Suicune seems like a subpar mon in general, and using Reuniclus means I am not using Glowbro. Haze Milotic/Crobat (lol) are pretty good stops too, but they get inevitable statused and much less effective throughout the match.

Other than that, Snorlax is kinda filthy. Cobalion is probably the most common check but it needs to SD to immediately KO it after a Curse and +1 EQ does a chunk and a half. I also like Doublade as a mon, although it doesn't check a lot on paper besides Cobalion, it's tough to take down and forces trades a lot of the time after nabbing a SD. Gyro ball also smashes Noivern which is sick.
 
I agree with the post above and but for me you can add Togekiss to S as well. Togekiss can blanket check 2 of the top 3 mons in the meta and is as splashable as noivern to me.

Crobat in A surprises me tbh I get the appeal for it, its fast, it abuses boots very well and can defog which is nice for role compression. But if you look behind that the bat doesnt do that much for u other than being fast? It cant even properly revenge kill most of the time since its too weak. Id drop it to like B or B+.

Toxtricity from A- to A. its way better than the other mons in A- and is one of the tiers best (if not the best) wallbreakers.

Gardevoir from B+ to B. dont get me wrong its not bad but I dont like fitting it on teams since other psychics and fairys are better which makes it a very awkward mon to use.

Porygon2 from B to B+ or A-. GOD P2!!! This mon just checks all the special attackers in the tier can gives u free momentum with teleport. Can fit on a lot of teams and just shits on toxtricity's sound moves (be wary to not get trapped in the volt turn).

thats all from me for now :D
 
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gorex

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VR Update (Dated 22/2/2021)
note: reasonings might be added in this post if required in the near future. (will delete this note when done)

Rises:
:togekiss: A+ -> S
:zygarde-10%: A -> S
:chandelure: A- -> A
:toxtricity: A- -> A
:gastrodon: B+ -> A-
:barbaracle: B -> B+
:klefki: B -> B+
:porygon2: B -> B+
:snorlax: B -> B+
:vanilluxe: C+ -> B-
Drops:
:crobat: A -> A-
:milotic: A -> A-
:registeel: A -> A-
:suicune: A- -> B+
:entei: B+ -> B
:indeedee: B+ -> B
:arctozolt: B -> B-
Additions:
:dhelmise: UR -> B
:flygon: UR -> B
:aerodactyl: UR -> B-
:golurk: UR -> B-
:lycanroc: UR -> B-
:abomasnow: UR -> C+
:arctovish: UR -> C+
:lanturn: UR -> C-
We did vote on everything that was mentioned in some capacity on this thread, so if you'd like to see something potentially shift in the next update, please do make a post on it here and we will take it into consideration on the next VR slate, whenever that might be.
 
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Mac3

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I'd like to preface this by saying I think there should be the rank descriptions included in the VR, as that'll help both in justifying rises/drops and also help newer players, which is what this resource is mainly for anyway. I'd also like to see weathers be organized, like Politoed being higher ranked than Kabutops/Kingdra, although I understand why Omastar is higher ranked. Lastly, I'm unsure of the specific ranks of the drops/rises, so I'd like to mention that the specific rank changes should be focused on less than the idea of the changes.

Drops

:zarude: S --> A+
I don't think it's as big of a force as it once was. It's still one of the best mons in the meta don't get me wrong, but I just think it's super easy to fit a hard check to Zarude, whether that be Cobalion or Togekiss, or more niche options like Incineroar, Crobat, Talonflame, or Tangela. Being a grass-type that is a shaky check to Zygarde, as well as a dark-type that loses to both Slowbro and Chandelure is also not good in this meta, but we'll get to that later.

:steelix: A --> A-
Steelix has fallen off a bit lately in my opinion, the rise of offensive NP Togekiss carrying coverage, the banning of Thundurus and subsequent rise of Raikou, as well as using Steelix as your ground makes the Slowbro matchup a lot more difficult. This is not to say Steelix is a bad mon, Steelix is the sole ground type that can pivot into Xurkitree, while also being one of the only Toxtricity switch-ins, but I just don't think it has the same impact as it once did.

:toxtricity: A --> A-
Similarly to the Steelix drop, the increase in offensive Togekisses makes having an electric that loses to NP kiss generally quite underwhelming. There are of course ways to build around this, like including a rock type such as Rhyperior or Aerodactyl, but in general fitting Raikou or Xurkitree is much easier than building around Toxtricity, which I think needs to be shown in the VR, so having Toxtricity and Xurkitree the same rank is a bit misleading.

:crobat: A- --> B+
Crobat is a weird mon right now, its defensive profile just isn't that useful, although there could be interesting options such as Haze for Slowbro. However, in the electric meta, having sole STAB flying move is underwhelming, which generally makes Noivern or Talonflame better options depending on the team. I do think STAB physical flying moves off a fast speed stat is amazing right now, especially if it coincides with uturn, which it so often does.

:registeel: A- --> B+
Registeel has taken a hit in viability, as it's a steel-type that doesn't really deal with either Togekiss or Noivern very well like Stakataka often does, while also not being a volt immunity like Steelix is, falling somewhere in-between. I do think that this drop is debatable though, seeing as I think a lot of teams are generally quite unprepared for IronPress Registeel, which is something worth exploring before writing this mon off.

:sylveon: A- --> B+
Sylveon is not really as amazing as A- makes it out to be. Unlike Togekiss, the need for Wishtect takes up so much momentum in such a momentum based tier, which makes Sylveon really hard to justify over wish Togekiss. Additionally, Sylveon is a much worse Zarude check than Togekiss, while also rarely being bait for Chandelure and Toxtricity.

:Gardevoir: B+ --> B-
Gardevoir, I think, really hates this meta. Its speed is really underwhelming, making the pretty decent defensive typing it has kind of useless, as it gets outsped by either Guts Heracross if specs, or it just does no damage to the almost staple steel-types if scarf. The only thing it has going for it is trick and healing wish, which I think is a pretty small niche, which is why I put it in B-, however I haven't used specs either, so if people have differing opinions please do speak up.

:marowak-alola: B+ --> B/B-
I think Marowak-A is just a worse Chandelure honestly. The small boost in power it has, is completely offset by the stealth rock weakness and how slow it is. This means that it finds almost no opportunities to use its, honestly, quite amazing breaking potential. The one thing it does have over Chandelure is the electric immunity if lightning rod, which makes it one of the only boots Xurkitree counters, which is potentially nice depending on how popular that set becomes.

:suicune: B+ --> B-
Suicune has it pretty tough right now. The presence of Slowbro makes it so almost every team has one of Seismitoad and Gastrodon, which coincidentally also counter the best Suicune sets. Additionally to this, Zarude being everywhere makes getting a sweep going with Suicune very tough. Even if you do decide to run ice beam or toxic, the overbearing presence of knock off makes Suicune's reliance on leftovers pretty tough to justify using it, as you also give up on using Milotic or Gastrodon, which have better defensive presences. Lastly, the amount of electric-types that can revenge it doesn't bode well for a slow set-up sweeper.

:umbreon: B+ --> B-
i honestly haven't seen it in months.

:entei: B --> C+/C
Entei, I just think, is outclassed by the other offensive fire-types in the tier, Darm having access to uturn while Chandelure has an amazing secondary STAB. I don't agree with Expulso wanting it C- or whatever cause espeed is a very realistic niche in the current meta, being able to kill weakened dragons like Noivern and Zygarde without any risk.

:indeedee:B --> B-/C+
Indeedee can definitely be a powerful breaker in this meta, however, much like Gardevoir, the uptake in Stakataka usage makes this thing worse. This is in addition to providing very little defensive value and also being extremely prediction reliant when Zarude is as common as it is.

:zoroark: B --> C+
use zarude.

:ditto: B- --> C
wrong meta, barely any HO.

:polteageist: B- --> C+/C
Polteageist is really interesting in theory, having access to both shell smash and stored power can make it a super dangerous sweeper in the right matchup, however, not being able to touch Zarude or Incineroar really puts a dent in the teapot's viability. The competition it faces from Chandelure is also extremely strong, as Chandelure does almost everything better, as it can even afford to run flame charge as last move, in order to also boost its speed and make it a dangerous lategame sweeper.

:ninetales::torkoal::shiftry: C+ --> C
I think sun is a worse weather than rain right now, although I must admit I haven't used sun much. I feel like sun has a worse defensive structure than rain, and its sweepers generally need a free turn in order to get going, which is hard to come by in this meta. I don't have much more to say, this drop might not even be necessary if y'all make rain C+/B-, I just don't think rain should be ranked lower.

:lanturn: C- --> UR
literally does nothing.


Rises

:slowbro-galar: A+ --> S
Slowbro is one of, if not the best, mon in the meta right now, and the VR should reflect this. The sets it uses are very straightforward, as it's either bulky cm or NP qcqd, however this doesn't make it any easier to stop. The calm mind set has a multitude of different items/moves it can run, which completely change the counters to it, for example, if its colbur then Pangoro is no longer an offensive counter, while shuca makes it beat most grounds types in the long run. There are games where Slowbro gets pressured though, as its unboosted special defense is nothing to write home about, and mons like Toxtricity and Chandelure can kill it from a high percentage even at +1.

:chandelure: A --> A+
Chandelure is one of the best mons in the meta right now, its STAB combo has only a few resists in this tier, limited to Snorlax and Incineroar. Snorlax is relatively easy to take advantage of right now, with several fighting types being extremely good, and Snorlax creating a slow, clunky team, which can often be overrun by a faster volturn. Incineroar, however, is super easy to chip at, especially if you decide to go toxtect as last two moves, although toxic + energy ball is often enough to chip at Incineroar in relatively few turns.

:durant: A- --> A
Durant is a very interesting mon, having no switchins to its coverage 80% of the time. However, it also faces significant difficulty in building with it as it has very little defensive utility, as it's a fake steel-type. I don't think this matters much with Durant though, unlike Indeedee and Zoroark, as its speed tier allows it to outspeed almost everything and isn't as prediction reliant as the other two are either. Much like Golisopod, having access to first impression allows it to be a great tool in revenging weakened, or even unweakened, offensive mons like Noivern, Zygarde, and Raikou, as well as several scarfers.

:stakataka: A- --> A
Stakataka has had a boost in usage lately. This is because it is a much better counter to Noivern, and a much better check to Togekiss than the other common steels, thanks to its secondary typing. However, Togekiss does have access to aura sphere, so Stakataka's viability could very quickly drop again, so this rise might be unnecessary.

:golisopod: B+ --> A/A+
Golisopod is amazing right now. Having access to knock, spikes, two different priority moves, and also being a Zygarde check makes it a great fit on a big number of teams. The combination of knock off and spikes is especially potent right now, as so many teams are forgoing hazard control in favor of pivot Noivern or NP Togekiss. The stab combination is also very good, the few resists, like Noivern, really wanting to keep their item.

:aerodactyl: B- --> B
Aerodactyl is a really interesting mon, thanks to its blistering speed and defensive profile it has a good niche in the current metagame. It's able to check Noivern, Togekiss, and Chandelure for offensive and slower teams alike when running its roost + HDB set, while it can also use LO/CB offensive. It also has great coverage for the current meta, being able to destroy the common Cobalion volturns running around thanks to its dual STABs and earthquake. Here is a post that goes a bit more in-depth, and if you scroll up, you see other opinions on Aerodactyl.

:slurpuff: UR --> B-/C+
Slurpuff does what it always has done, be a nuisance behind screens and alter how the opponent has to play. If the opponent isn't running Slowbro, there's a high chance they just get 6-0d by Slurpuff once it sets up, which it finds many opportunities to. I don't know exactly where to rank it, as Slowbro is very common, but I do think Slurpuff has everything it needs to in order to succeed.

:scrafty: UR --> C+
Scrafty is a really cool set-up sweeper right now, being able to be a solid check to Slowbro, Snorlax, and Chandelure with its BU set. Having access to knock in this meta is always a blessing, especially considering its best counter, in Togekiss, hates losing its item. Although you can remove the item of Togekiss, Scrafty finds it extremely hard to break it, adding mons like haze Milotic and clear smog Gastro to the mix makes Scrafty rarely be able to sweep on its own, but the defensive value it provides gives it enough of a niche to be ranked.

:shiinotic: UR --> C/C+
Shiinotic is an interesting mon in this meta, carving its niche in that it beats Zarude, Zygarde, and electrics all in one slot. To add to this it also gets access to spore, which is still amazing, as going into a counter to Shiinotic is always risky. However, it does still have several issues in the meta. It invites in Toxtricity, Chandelure, and Togekiss, and can't pressure them with corrosive gas like Vileplume is able to. I advise you to try this mon out if you got the time, as it performs better in practice than on paper.

Regarding Lycanroc and Gigalith, I think that sand definitely has a niche in the meta, but I don't think Lycanroc has a niche on its own. This means that I think either we should rank both Lycanroc and Gigalith at C+, or we shouldn't rank either.

The last issue I'd like to cover is rain, as touched previously I think rain should firstly be changed so that sweeper/setters are in 1 subrank, I'm unsure whether this should be in C with sun, or C+. I also believe Ludicolo could be ranked for rain, as it provides a ground resist which is super nice in Zygarde meta.

E: plz do include reasonings for drops/rises, also being able to see who voted what could be interesting.
 
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Adaam

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Roserade should be A+ imo, it’s far better than anything in A-. Then I see dogass like Xurk in A and rose is a lot better than that so should be higher. Spikes are crazy good and it’s stab combo is surprising tough to handle. A lot of Steel-types get chunked by Leaf Storm (Steelix, Staka, Cobalion) or are spike fodder (Registeel). The last slot is really flexible too, I’ve used Synthesis, Shadow Ball, Leech Seed, and powder moves and they are all effective. Plus it’s an offensive Toge check which is always great. The biggest drawback is you can’t really fit Monke and Vern bothers it too. But if Zydog goes then Rose gets an indirect buff by not needing that ground resist from your grass
 
Vileplume B --> B+/A-
Its one of the better poisons in this meta and is a more defensive version of Roserade which Adaam just posted about. Vileplume was also blessed with Corrosive Gas as a moveslot of option which can remove leftovers from steels or boots from fire / flying types. It also checks Raikou and Xurkitree which are the best Electric types in the current meta. Strength Sap is also one of the best recovery moves in the game and can be used to 1v1 physical mons that don't outright KO it which makes it even more insane to deal with. Just like with Roserade it will get even better once Zydog goes so it could potentially move up even further in the future.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ru-545120 Here is a recent tournament replay from RUPL where Vileplume really shone.
 

Aquarius Ghost ❤

Banned deucer.
Hey, RUers it's me, Aquarius Ghost and I'm back with another VR nomination / post!

:ss/Virizion: UR to B
With Galarian Slowbro being ultimately being banned from RU, Viriz is starting to be a pretty potent sweeper / wallbreaker. Literally, all 3 of its sets are insanely powerful. Even with Togekiss, Gweezing, and Reuniclues being in the tier it is very destructive. For example, we have no counter, it's impossible to tell what set it's gonna run and you may prep for the wrong set and get swept, kinda like thundy-ish. If it runs Sd it can run Zen headbutt for the Poisons and like Stone edge for the Flying types. Its high SpDef makes it a good check to the broken elecs, it also serves as a soft check to Zarude and Zygarde 10%. The game Serene Grace Vs Pdt in Rupl demonstrates how potent Virizion can be. Once the Togekiss died Virizion kinda just cleaned, it was due to hax, but even then the crit didn't matter much bc; 252 Atk Life Orb Virizion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Togekiss: 187-221 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Stone edge 2hkos, and yes I might have the wrong spread. This mon is currently on the rise to be very good again due to the Galarian Slowbro ban and I highly think that it deserves to be on the VR. (I might have missed some info, possibly someone can explain this mon and its features/ what it does better than me.

:ss/Pyukumuku: UR to C+

Pyukumuku is currently the only viable Unaware user in RU and it is v similar to Quagsire as an Unaware user. Aside from it being similar to Quagsire, Pyuk also has great defensive stats with 55/130/130 and can wall so many set-up sweepers that are physical such as Cloyster, Barbaracle, Mimikyu, Doublade, and many others! Pyuk is able to provide passive pressure against foes with Toxic and limiting their pp bc of Spite. However, Pyuk is mainly attracted to only on Stall teams and is rarely good outside of it. Pyuk is just a perfect option to use on stall teams, provides a lot of utility, and is a pain in the ass to face if you are not prepped for it correctly. I also peaked with Pyuk and that Rmt has replays of it which can be found HERE!

:ss/Zarude: S to A+ (possibly A)
Yes, I am nominating Zarude for A+. Whenever I used Zarude it's not all "that", it's a bit overhyped. Zarude is mainly just a glue that's p easy to slap on a team, however, it kinda does nothing the whole game other than click U-turn. I mean don't get me wrong it's a p good mon, although if it was like Slowking where it can Teleport + Future Sight then I would get why it can be S rank and Zarude doesn't do that lol. Every team has answers to it that just shut it down and is forced to U-turn the whole game. Scarf sets are p bad, it's not a good revenge killer at all and the dmg output is pretty underwhelming. Also, when your Zarude gets Knocked Off it becomes heavily pressured by hazards which are really unfort for a glue mon. I also agree with everything that Mac3 said about Zarude.

:ss/Reuniclus: A to A+ / S
This thing is kinda like gbro, its very annoying has all-around perfect coverage and its bulk is way too good. It runs Colbur to weak Dark-type moves against it and KO most Dark-type mons with Focus blast at +1. Magic guard is stupid asf because u can't toxic it and can't passively chip it down. Also, reuni can run Av just like Gbro to be a special wall and pressure teams with Future Sight. Its answers are pretty limited and can be pretty restricting. A mon with amazing bulk + Cm is going to end up to be very good in any meta it's in.

Rises I'm too lazy to explain:
:stakataka: to A
:Chandelure: to A+
:Salazzle: to A-

Drops
:volcanion: to B+
:Raikou: to A
:milotic: to B+
(I would post more drops/rises, but I made my own VR for that.)

Tl;dr
Viriz is good now bc gbro is banned
Zarude is not all "that"
Pyuk is a good unaware user.
Reuni is starting to become a concern


Tyvm for reading my post, I hope yall enjoyed it.
 
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Yo, just wanted to add some more input around some of these noms

Sylveon from A- to B
Unless there’s something big I’m missing this Pokemon is really not impressing me at all rn. After using Wish Togekiss I’ve lost faith in Wish Sylveon being anywhere close to the A ranks, as Togekiss itself is a ton more splashable. An extremely disappointing thing is how Sylveon is a Fairy kind of terrible at checking Zarude, being put under pressure from Power Whip after rocks. Now this turns to Specs Sylveon, which admittedly is not easy to switch into, but the Speed tier is so ass I feel like even if you run into an unprepared team, it’s so easy to improvise against since its physical bulk is so bad uninvested. I even find Gardevoir more impressive as an offensive Fairy with its extra Speed and more impactful ability that gives it more flexibility, though I also think Gardevoir is B rank worthy.


Registeel from A- to B+
Y’all already know my opinion on this mon, nothing’s really changed, I just think a further drop to B+ accurately reflects its level of appeal compare to other alternatives rn.


Keep Chandelure in A
Aight I’m not getting this “Chandy is busted” train, A+ seems out of place. I get that as a wallbreaker it kind of lacks consistent defensive stops and boots deny any chip, letting it stay at full and take stuff like Noivern Draco and Steelix EQ. But I don’t find Chandelure to automatically pull its weight in every matchup, since honestly its Speed tier isn’t that special and it has a lot of weakness to force it out. A lot of its defensive utility gives it flexibility for its openings but there’s almost always a risk associated with it. Trying to stunt on Cobalion can get you Stone Edge’d, switching into a Metagross or Steelix Steel move has huge payoff but similar risk, attempting to call out Toxtricity Boomburst can get you killed etc. Basically I think most teams are already equipped with the tools to outplay Chandelure enough to prevent it from eroding teams as consistently as A+ would imply. Against straight offense I really don’t see why it would get more than one kill, being forced out by pivots like Zarude and LO Mienshao is not the most appealing thing. I will say that synergy wise it overlaps with very little and fits well with our other options. VoltTurn definitely amplifies this mons attributes but even doing stuff like bringing in Noivern or Staka in on U-turns instead of something weak to Chandelure can help keep it out.


Golisopod to A minimum
Seeing Pod in B+ kinda ages the VR already since I think many of us would agree that this mon brings an immense amount of useful utility that is being abused to the fullest right now. Strong priority and a Ground resist that synergizes excellently on many builds AND Knock Off AND Spikes are attributes useful for any team in a vacuum and in practice it delivers for sure. I’ve never seen a game where this mon has nothing to do and/or does nothing, throwing this in a higher rank is a no brainer.


Obstagoon from A- to B+
I know maybe it’s a bit unfair to solely compare it to Heracross but let’s be real, Heracross and Obstagoon occupy the same niche with their Guts set in being wallbreakers without the need of set-up or choice lock, while also absorbing status to an extent. Obstagoon feels inferior in enough ways to just really not feel impressive, it’s never the one you want if you can help it. Mostly I find this is due to Goon only having 90 Attack compared to Heracross’s 125, and Heracross having STAB on CC lets it be a lot more immediate against teams with Coba/Lix/Regi/Keys as their Steel, as well as Rhyperior. Goon having STAB on broken Knock Off isn’t a tangible advantage since Heracross doesn’t struggle with any Ghosts and Megahorn shits on any Psychics. The Speed tier only makes a difference for a couple Speed ties with Darm and Indeedee, while Goon also gets to jump Roserade. I just find Goon hard to justify outside of the Ghost immunity and barely useful Psychic immunity, which doesn’t even count since it’s worse at checking Reuniclus than Heracross. The U-turn weakness absolutely limits its longevity, even a Noivern U-turn gets relevant chip with no risk. Heracross meanwhile resists the move and shits on Zarude and Zydog at least once, and is just more threatening in general. Goon can’t even OHKO Necrozma, which just about sums up my issues with this mon.


Umbreon from B+ to B-
This has been one to confuse me from day 1, given the pace of the meta I don’t see how Umbreon can be considered B+ when it needs so much support to not get overwhelmed, and because it loses so readily to things like SD Coba and NP Togekiss, while also being Spikes bait for Rose and Keys. Its lack of any immediacy is so unappealing currently and it automatically slows down any team it’s on. Fat cores that this mon essentially forces are liable to getting worn down in a variety of ways, which doesn’t exhibit a team style strong enough to warrant a mon that only fits on them to be that high. Being able to hit back is so important rn, and in terms of combatting VoltTurn, Spikes, and Knock Off, Umbreon helps very little outside of healing stuff with Wish.


Toxicroak from B to B+
Alright this one’s definitely my bias, I mostly want to hear other people’s thoughts. I think Toxicroak is a great beneficiary of current trends, such as Crobat falling off (B+ material btw), Galarian Slowbro getting booted, and teams defaulting to mons like Togekiss, Noivern, Golisopod, or even Vileplume as Fighting resists. Toxicroak doesn’t struggle at all with any of these as long as Gunk Shot hits the birds, but what really helps Toxicroak stand out is its defensive utility. On the chance you run into Milotic or Suicune, which granted have fallen off a bit, Croak doesn’t let them play the game at all, beating even CM Ice Beam Suicune. It also has positive matchups against Mienshao, Roserade, and Sharpedo, while threatening out some others like Staka and even Chandelure if you run Knock Off. Zarude alone being so common gives Croak a spot to do what it wants. Offensively it really only struggles with Crobat and the Water/Grounds, but Knock Off can help immensely with these matchups. Drain Punch is an underrated element that lets it do things like walk away from the Cobalion match up with most its health in tact and generally giving it longevity in longer matchups, punishing teams relying on chip damage alone to beat it. I really think this mon is legit good, it usually has an opening against every team, and it’s not that difficult to facilitate, I encourage people to try it.


Heliolisk from B to C+
This mon just doesn’t make sense to me really. Heliolisk mostly serves as a midground/alternative to Raikou and Xurkitree, since it’s pretty fast and has freedom over Grass coverage, blending two appealing aspects of both, with a Water immunity and additional STAB for good measure. However, there’s one main issue compared to Raikou that I find unappealing, and it’s the Togekiss matchup. Uninvested Flamethrower is always a 3HKO against Lisk, meanwhile Raikou is a roll to 4HKO. This means you’re dedicating your Electric spot to something that dies to Togekiss much faster than the alternatives, and Togekiss is a mon that can already choose to be the last mon to faint in a battle, so winning long term is very important. Lisk also just has worse bulk overall, and I don’t find the Water immunity to be that useful, given a Toxic’d Heliolisk can actually struggle to force out Milotic, and Suicune’s not great to begin with. Grass Knot is cool, but without Fighting coverage Lisk does lose the nice utility of threatening out Staka and Cobalion, important since otherwise you get mauled in return. Dropping either Thunderbolt or Hyper Voice for Focus Blast isn’t great, since no T-bolt means Togekiss can Roost on Volt Switch and completely laugh at your Electric type unable to beat Togekiss, and no Hyper Voice misses out on neutral coverage and hitting Roserade and Raikou, which yes does check you. As a bonus it’s just as weak to Toxtricity as Raikou, since Punk Rock weakens Hyper Voice, meanwhile Raikou has room to adapt with Extrasensory if it pleases. Grass Knot doesn’t even come close to OHKOing Gastrodon, so even that advantage turns into a prediction. It can’t even play the Zydog Speed tie like Raikou can, taking away another tool, and overall I just struggle to see a build where Heliolisk is the most optimal choice, it seems more like a band-aid fix than anything, especially since Toxic Raikou has proven to be able to outlast Grass Knot’s main targets.


Suicune from B+ to B or lower
The “Suicune sux” train is probably getting a little annoying to hear lmao but it’s true, the meta’s not favorable to Suicune as a wincon, which is its main niche given its direct competition from Milotic and Gastrodon as general defensive Waters. Hazards and the general lack of immediate threat from Suicune means it can’t keep up, thus it’s not really a mon worth using rn.


Entei from B to C+ at the most
Nothing really to add here either, I was just way too nice before >:)

Edit: Making the votes from the VR team public would be cool cus we get to clown people for their opinion :psysly:
 
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Expulso

Morse code, if I'm talking I'm clicking
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:salazzle: salazzle: b+ -> a- or even a

this is either the best or 2nd best fire type in the tier, imo. Being faster than raikou and other threats like cobalion is really huge for it. the by far most common switch-ins are Gastrodon and Noivern; Noivern gets Knocked (either by Lazzle or a partner like Golis, Heracross, or Mienshao) and then cant rly switch in any more -- not to mention it possibly just taking like 70+poison from Sludge Bomb. Gastrodon gets knocked or toxiced and then takes spikes damage, plus is forced to constantly Recover after switching in which is a huge momentum suck. Damaging Gastro is also huge because it tends to check multiple things on any given team, such as Raikou, Cobalion, and Noivern.

:steelix: steelix: a -> a-

the steelix theorem states that any team with steelix will be made better by removing the steelix and replacing it with something else. it is so BAD at doing what its typing suggests that it does; you're a shaky Raikou check because aura/scald 2hko and you're a steel that doesn't handle Togekiss at all (you get flinched + NP Flame does like 85). im not 100% on this nom bc sometimes it's useful but imo it's just not good enough at handling either togekiss or electrics to use it over other mons with its typing

:golisopod: golisopod: b+ -> a

fully agree w Jmash above

:mienshao: :reuniclus:
I would consider either Mienshao or Reuniclus (or both) to rise to A+. Mienshao is the best scarfer in the tier along with fighting types just being very scary rn, which it can capitalize on with its LO set; Reuniclus' AV set is extremely good at support + offensive presence, and CM has lots of potential too (though it doesn't love the popularity of golis rn, it can rly scare passive cores like steelix + milo or staka+gastro).
 
:linoone: to B
Linoone is blessed with the combination of Extreme Speed and Belly Drum. Being able to OHKO some of the strongest Pokemon in the tier. With a moveset of Belly Drum, Extreme Speed, Shadow Claw, and Stomping Tantrum, it can do a lot of damage:
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 399-469 (128.2 - 150.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Zarude: 364-430 (103.7 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cobalion: 382-450 (118.2 - 139.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 260-306 (73.4 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 286-337 (65.8 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 384-454 (90.5 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
However, it has a number of weaknesses. For example, it can't do much prior to a Belly Drum due to it only having a base 70 Attack, so it has to be able to survive a hit and keep enough health to use Belly Drum, which leads to it's second problem: It has terrible bulk. Here are some calculations that show how easily it dies, using the same set as before, after a Belly Drum and restoring health from it's berry:
252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Linoone: 456-536 (153 - 179.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Zarude Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Linoone: 370-436 (124.1 - 146.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Linoone: 259-306 (86.9 - 102.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Linoone: 372-438 (124.8 - 146.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Punk Rock Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Linoone: 385-455 (129.1 - 152.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
In conclusion, I believe that it's niche in having Belly Drum and Extreme Speed is enough to let it rise, even if just a little bit.
 
:linoone: to B
Linoone is blessed with the combination of Extreme Speed and Belly Drum. Being able to OHKO some of the strongest Pokemon in the tier. With a moveset of Belly Drum, Extreme Speed, Shadow Claw, and Stomping Tantrum, it can do a lot of damage:
We have a general understanding of what Linoone does and what disadvantages it has; that's why it's ranked in the first place. If you want to make a case for a Pokemon to rise, a post should aim to answer at least one of the following questions:
  • Does the Pokemon work with greater consistency than its current rank suggests?
  • Does the Pokemon take advantage of current metagame trends? Are teams generally prepared for it?
  • Is the Pokemon easier to support than its rank suggests?
 

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