Resource SS RU Viability Rankings (Crown Tundra)

[Aquarius Ghost ❤]

Anotha Vr post, gorex dont forget to include my noms this time!

UR to C / C+
Ribombee is literally the only viable sticky web setter in RU. It can server as a good pivot and a screen setter, makes set up sweepers such as Linoone and Lucario a lot harder to deal with.

B to B+
Lucario starts to become a demon at +2, slap it on Webs, and it's a real danger, barely anything can revenge kill this. This mon has near-perfect coverage, it can run equake sometimes to hit Pokes such as Doublade and servers as a fine check to Togekiss.

calcs bitches

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 415-489 (97.4 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 243-286 (78.1 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO some chip and ur good to go
252 SpA Noivern Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 214-254 (76.1 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Crobat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 159-187 (56.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Crobat: 407-480 (108.8 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 237-281 (75.9 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO again some chip on doublade and ur good to go, chipping doublade isn't hard lol.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mienshao: 303-357 (111.8 - 131.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

B- to B+
This thing is really dangerous on screen builds, it can beat most Zarudes depending on the set, great overall sweeper, and when it's paired with terrain support from Gweezing, Steels become unreliable checks to it when terrain is up, which becomes annoying.

B- to B
In a tier where HO is a very dominant playstyle, Ditto tends to be a cool mon to use. Mainly bc it's the best revenge killer in the tier, stopping set up sweepers and reverse sweeping.

C+ to B-
Why exactly is this mon C+? This mon is a nuisance on some screen builds, its only counter is what? Cobal, shit, slap Linoone on screen webs and bam Linoone cant be stopped. With screens becoming popular Belly Drum mons can easily abuse them lol. Prior espeed is rlly hard to stop at +6 especially when it has coverage such as seed bomb or stomping tantrum to hit pokemon such as doublade, milotic, gastrodon, etc etc. Yes, the Light Clay ban will make screens a bit worse, but I doubt it changes how potent Linoone rlly is.

A- to B+
Anyone else feel like skewda is a bit underwhelming? I mean this Poke shouldn't be ranked the same as Sharpedo, since Skewda is hard-walled by every bulky Water-type out there. HDB sets are too fucking weak, cb is like why would u want to be stuck into a water move when we have so many Pokes immune or resist to it and its not like it has coverage to actually dent them p hard, cc just 3hkos which is p lame. LO sets are a bit hazard weak and are also generally not very great. On the other hand, Sharpedo is a demon nothing can switching to shark, has a speed boost to make it a very deadly wallbreaker, and has very good typing, def hard to tell a shark set on preview while skewda not so rlly, if its on rain its gonna be cb, non-rain teams usually hdb or sometimes cb, while with sharpedo it's hard to tell if its mixed, special, or even physical.

Other noms I don't want to explain.
Rises:
To A+
To A-
To A-
To A-
To C+

Drops:
To B+
To C-
To B-
To B- / C+
To C+
To B+
ignore my shit grammar, too sick to look over this guys :(. hope yall liked reading this, ig.

 

[Voyager]

first vr post of the gen pog

-> S I know this will probably be a little but of regurgitating, but I believe raikou is absolutely dominant rn. Despite the increase in xurk usage, raikou is still ridiculously splashable and above all, consistent on a game to game basis. Almost every team runs an electric type and raikou is the pick of the bunch. Its excellent speed tier, bulk and ability to pressure every mon that would block volt switch with either a toxic on the switch or aura sphere on the switch. It can also run scald to immediately threaten rhyperior. It is incredibly to overwhelm teams with the volt switch onslaught.

-> C+ Vaporeon stands out as bulky water and water immune from because of its access to wish. This allows it to A self sustain and B keep its teammates healthy. It fits well on balance structures and even more stall esque teams, its ability to keep its teammates healthy and allow mons without recovery to go the distance in longer games is invaluable. It also provides a check to a varied assortment of mons, and its wishes allow mons to switch in to pokemon they otherwise wouldn't. It also stands out as a water immune that is capable of shrugging off status with heal bell, gain momentum with flip turn or run ice beam to threaten roserade and zarude switching in. To sum up it serves as excellent role compression as a wisher, bulky water and water immune as well as being able to be tweaked to fit the style of team it is on.

vap replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ru-553213 in this replay (admittedly screens meta) vapo is able to abuse free turns granted to it and also allows ark to make a mid ground to toge, ultimately winning the game. The vapo could easily have been able to sustain registeel had the matchup been less offensive.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ru-561723 vapo is able to force a burn onto vileplume, resulting in its sacking aswell as pressuring steelix and eventually forcing significant damage on it. With these two mons removed durant is able to clean. It also keeps up momentum with flip turn.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1351779112-8cm9usnxcmdqpv45iszpfb8tbqfgzripw one of my own, admittedly facing a poor team structure, however vapo allows me to play fairly agressive with my np togekiss, knowing i can just heal bell of its para later. 'tect also allows me to scout toxtricity's chosen move.

edit: -> A what crobat does hasn't changed since it dropped (except maybe a little bit of taunt), what has changed is the meta. obviously there hasn't been a new dlc or anything, but the meta has shifted. It dropped from A in a galar-bro meta. Zydog at the time was running rampant and thus toge and noivern were prefered, noivern for its ability to switch in, live a hit and then ohko, toge for its ability to take 3 hits. neither of which crobat could do. now that zydog is gone crobat can seperate itself from its competetion with its unique traits. Crobat in this meta serves as an excellent midground between noivern and togekiss, possesing both u-turn and reliable flying stab. Its poison typing allows it to serve as a better check to roserade and crucially a toxic immunity. It also can run u-turn and defog on one set, which noiv struggles to do.

violating zizalth

More thoughts
-> A- nice electric immunity, wallbreaks ridiculously hard.
-> C+/C
-> B-/C+ webs best ho after screens ban. ribombee best web setter.
-> B+ what aqua said
-> A+ like basically no counters. also insane on webs
-> B+ dont know where i stand on polti after screens ban. i still think it is probably op but also a bit finnicky. idk. definatly to b+ maybe higher.

 

[gorex]

VR Update (Dated 5/6/2021)

Rises:

A -> A+

A- -> A

A- -> A

B+ -> A-

B+ -> A-

B- -> B

B- -> B

B- -> B

B- -> B

C- -> C

C- -> C

Drops:

A -> A-

A -> A-

A -> A-

A- -> B+

A- -> B+

A- -> B+

A- -> B+

B+ -> B

B+ -> B

B -> B-

B -> B-

B -> B-

B -> B-

B -> B-

B -> B-

B -> C+

B- -> C+

B- -> C+

B- -> C+

B- -> C

C+ -> C

C+ -> C

C+ -> C

C+ -> C

C+ -> C

C+ -> C

C+ -> C

C+ -> C

C+ -> C-

C -> C-

Additions:

UR -> B-

UR -> C

UR -> C

UR -> C

UR -> C-

Removals:

C -> UR

C -> UR

C- -> UR

Hey guys, massive VR update here because we voted on all the mons in the VR currently, and also added on a few more from the unranked section. If there are any other mons that you feel should have moved up or down, please do feel free to nominate them and it will be taken into consideration for the next VR update.

 

[Nohtori]

Hi, I've been using Cryogonal as a spinner and I would like to suggest adding it to the VR here at C Rank.

My reasoning for the viability of Cryogonal in RU is as follows:

• 105 base Spe allows it a fast Rapid Spin, able to outpace (and threaten) some important threats in the tier to ensure its execution, including Togekiss and Roserade (it can switch into both as well), and this obviously also allows it to outpace the many slower things here to successfully remove hazards
  
  
• Many people don't know this but its base HP and Defense were buffed last gen so while it's still frail on the physical side, it won't be dying to any random Knock Offs or anything neutral unless it's reasonably strong
  
  
• Freeze-Dry allows it to threaten the Water-types that would otherwise wall it, which allows it extra leeway in the tier especially considering that the more popular bulky Waters are also Ground-types, making this move 4x effective; bulky waters can't come in against it
  
  
• Despite its bad defensive typing, its high special bulk even with limited or no investment allows it to come in on almost any non-Fire special attacker if necessary, and it has Recover to shrug off damage from special hits to keep itself healthy
  
  
• It has access to Knock Off and Haze, which helps against special setup sweepers, particularly CM Reuniclus; it also has room in its moveslot for Toxic if you want to put timers on things like Chandelure, Porygon2, Raikou, or Cresselia
  
  
• It has Levitate to ignore Spikes and Sticky Web even if an item other than HDB is used, or even if its HDB is removed; this ability also gives it even more added security against Gastrodon and the increasingly popular Flygon
  
  
• Cryogonal performs incredibly well against Rain teams, threatening just about everything with Freeze-Dry and also having the rare ability to stand up to Weather Ball Tornadus

Set

Cryogonal @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Freeze-Dry
- Toxic / Knock Off / Haze

This has just enough Speed to outrun base 95s like Obstagoon, and I maxed the HP and put the remainder into SpA. This can also be tailored to outrun Flygon if you want something like that, at the cost of some bulk or Freeze-Dry power. Some added Def investment can help it to not be 2HKOed by Psyshock from Starmie, the only offensively-oriented spinner in the VR, if you care about that.

For the fourth move, I personally recommend Toxic for the incoming Chandelure, which you're 100% going to get. Knock Off is good for incoming Steels and overall utility, and Haze is mostly for security against CM Reuniclus and Necrozma before they get out of hand.

Defensive Calcs

Cryogonal's worst fear against Togekiss is Thunder Wave, but that set is falling in popularity in favor of Nasty Plot or more team-supportive options like Heal Bell and Defog, and it always wants Roost and still needs to be able to attack, so yeah. Here's Togekiss's strongest potential offensive option against Cryo, unboosted. If Cryo switches in on Nasty Plot, it still beats Togekiss 1v1 with 2 Freeze-Drys back to back, while boosted Flamethrower fails to OHKO.

252 SpA Togekiss Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 144-170 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


Nothing to fear from the standard offensive Raikou pivot, or from Scarf. It wins 1v1 if it comes down to that. Both can Toxic, but only Cryo can heal.

252 SpA Raikou Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 82-97 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 105-124 (28.8 - 34%) -- 99.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Raikou Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 124-148 (34 - 40.6%) -- 53.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


Cryogonal also beats non-Specs Xurkitree 1v1 if it comes down to that.

252 SpA Xurkitree Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 109-130 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 141-166 (38.7 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


This is calculated for standard AV Reuniclus, which can be worn down with Toxic if it doesn't switch back out. Haze can deal with CM variants, which tend to put all investment into physical bulk and therefore pose even less of a problem without boosts.

24+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
24+ SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 180-214 (49.4 - 58.7%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Cryogonal can come in on Noivern's Defog fairly safely, or any move if it has to, and immediately threaten it.

252 SpA Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 135-159 (37 - 43.6%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Noivern Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 124-148 (34 - 40.6%) -- 53.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


Beautiful. No Spikes damage coming in either because of Levitate.

252 SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 111-132 (30.4 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery


This is for Scarf Toxtricity. Any other Toxtricity item allows Cryogonal to outspeed it, and Freeze-Dry will finish it off after some easy chip from hazards and/or Life Orb.

252+ SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 153-181 (42 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 133-156 (36.5 - 42.8%) -- 96.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


This is for Scarf Gardevoir. Specs can 2HKO with Moonblast but it's slow enough to play around with other stuff fairly easily. I double-checked the analysis to make sure they don't standardly run Psyshock and they do not.

252 SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 118-139 (32.4 - 38.1%) -- 2.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


It handles Tornadus decently well. Nasty Plot variants can be a pain but you'll still get off a nice Freeze-Dry before going down. Focus Blast sets are also a problem but it has to hit two, so there's that.

252 SpA Tornadus Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 135-160 (37 - 43.9%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tornadus Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 158-186 (43.4 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

My beloved Vileplume/Milotic core also falls to this thing. Obviously Cryo can't take physical beatdowns and has to be wary around Steels, Mienshao, 1st turn Golisopod, etc but I think it's a solid spinner for the current RU metagame with the advantages it does have. Cryogonal and Raikou work very well together and also lessens the need for boots, which expands item opportunities.

Cryogonal's biggest problem is Chandelure, which can come in to block Rapid Spin with very little trouble outside of Toxic. Of lesser concern is Doublade but it can block both Rapid Spin and Toxic, so that's something to keep in mind too. As a spinner, it's true that it won't be holding its own against rockers like Cobalion or Steelix but it certainly matches up well against Roserade, the best spiker in the tier.

Think HDB Articuno at the start of the meta but with Rapid Spin instead of Defog so you can keep your own hazards.

In the late game, you can Rapid Spin against something that can't 2HKO you to be able to clean up things like Crobat or Aerodactyl that would normally outspeed and beat you but are too afraid to switch in directly.

Edit: Fixed spoiler tags

 

[Expulso]

stealth rock metagross cobalion registeel stakataka steelix diancie all beat cryogonal so i see little reason to use it as a spinner

e: checking togekiss and noivern very reliably may be enough for c

 

[Nohtori]

stealth rock metagross cobalion registeel stakataka steelix diancie all beat cryogonal so i see little reason to use it as a spinner

Yes, and I addressed that. There is Roserade, however. And the express role of a spinner is not to necessarily match up well against hazard layers themselves, considering that Rapid Spin can also be used on any turn where they aren't currently out.

Is Dhelmise bad for matching up badly against Stealth Rock Alolawak or can it spin at a different time? Same logic

 

[Yourwelcomethanku]

Yes, and I addressed that. There is Roserade, however. And the express role of a spinner is not to necessarily match up well against hazard layers themselves, considering that Rapid Spin can also be used on any turn where they aren't currently out.

I would rather use Crobat.

Yes, and I addressed that. There is Roserade, however. And the express role of a spinner is not to necessarily match up well against hazard layers themselves, considering that Rapid Spin can also be used on any turn where they aren't currently out.

Is Dhelmise bad for matching up badly against Stealth Rock Alolawak or can it spin at a different time? Same logic

Alowack is uncommon let alone Stealth Rock Alowack. Dhelmise beats almost all our Stealth Rock setters. The thing is even in your example Alowack can't swap into Dhelmise freely. Cryogonal lets most of out Steel and Rock types in pretty freely where as Dhelmise can threaten most of our SR setters on the switch allowing it to pull of a spin and keep rocks off.

 

[zizalith]

ive been playing again for like a week and this is what I think about the meta and the stuff that I've been liking so far

--> B/B+
B- -->B/B+
Ninetales is a bit of an awkward mon, but I've been using it a ton since it dropped and I think it's pretty good. Support sets are annoying as hell with encore and veil, making it really good at creating setup opportunities on hyper offense. I've been running moonblast + foul play, which sorta deals with a lot of the steels we have. they are usually super annoying for HO, especially if you have like arctozolt or linoone. Zolt is as good as ever and now has a much better hail setter to go with it, so it should end up wherever tales goes. I don't think np ninetales is good at all but I've enjoyed specs a whole ton. Ice is such a good offensive typing in the tier, and the good steel types are p mediocre checks, which lets it make progress on its own. It's really good on voltturn when you can give it switchins a lot more freely.

B- --> UR
outclassed by ninetales hard. specs hits a lot harder, but everything else about it is worse, and it's too slow for it to compensate really

A --> A+
Incin is so easy to slap on teams right now. It's one of the closest zarude replacements we have and one of our few dark types left, which is extremely relevant considering how dominant reuniclus, polteageist, and other ghost/psychics are becoming. Knock is great as always, and its resists are super splashable. Good mon.

B+ --> A-
B+ --> A-
zarude is dead, which opens up a lot of opportunities for these two guys. dhelmise is a bit limited by the rise of incineroar. However, it's still a lot less ubiquitous than zarude, and it also means less grass-type competition for a teamslot. I've also been experimenting a little bit with the trapper set which I feel has more potential rn - its biggest weakness was always being deadweight vs zarude. Starmie can actually afford to run defensive spin sets without getting cucked by the most common mon in the tier, which also adds some variety to the tier's hazard removal. Definitely some of our best options rn I feel, which can enable stuff like spikes voltturn which is insanely good. Mons like mienshao and xurk benefit a whole ton from this.

B --> A-
A lot of people have started using np now, which is actually an excellent breaker. It still has issues with 4mss to some extent, but it's not anywhere near as big as it used to be. Psychic + ground/ghost coverage has great neutral coverage, and you have the option of running pollen puff or grass type. It's def one of the most relevant grasses post-zarude. Pivot Celebi is also cool but np is the best set. It still has a ton of defensive utility, so it's pretty easy to slap on a team and go ham.

C --> B-
Decidueye is really cool rn I think. It's an excellent offensive check to stuff like reuniclus and polteageist and has uturn to keep momentum up against the 2 ghost resists we got. the typing is a nice volt sponge if you need a bit more insurance vs elecs, although the lack of recovery only makes it so useful. Either way, ghosts are great, so yeah.

C --> B
With rhyperior gone, Xatu suddenly has a really positive mu against most of our hazard setters. let's see how you fare vs them:

Hide

will prevent hazards:
will usually prevent hazards:
might not prevent hazards:
cannot prevent hazards:

I've found it really effective on offense for a few reasons. first, even though it generally has favorable matchups, it's not always the most reliable check to them mostly because the bulk is pretty mediocre, but running it on offense mitigates this problem as you often only need to switch it in a few times per game. furthermore, sacking xatu to prevent hazards from like, staka is less detrimental if you can set up on it or force it out later. Secondly, it's v good at maintaining momentum. It's a pretty passive mon, so switching out to let others handle stuff synergizes well with volt turn offenses. Finally, it deals with almost all the steel types, so it pairs well with mons like arctozolt, roserade, and durant.



There are currently 37 Pokemon in between the C ranks. This is a huge amount of "viable" pokemon on a relatively unimportant part of the VR, which imo creates a considerable amount of bloat and isn't necessarily indicative of the actual viability of the mons in here. I think the VR team should take a moment to rehaul the whole c ranks because many of these are barely even viable, and there are literally so many. Like, seriously, who uses any of these? Let's trim it down.

Hide

a worse reuniclus that also loses to reuniclus. cress has had the same problems it has had every gen: it's a do-nothing mon. In a meta as fast or dominated by volt turn like this one, it really has no business being used in ru. plus, the uptick of reuniclus, Celebi, and necrozma just means there are more psychic-type countermeasures than ever, making it extremely awkward to run whether it's defensive or cm.


This mon is literally only here because expulso theorynommed it like 5 months ago. we literally had to scramble to make a decently viable set in the analyses section to justify it existing in c-. it is that bad. And no, not even gigalith saves it, its a terrible sand sweeper too.


This mon is in a very similar situation as cresselia in the sense that it's slow, passive, and is outclassed by its fellow rock types in diancie and stakataka. Yes, it has higher special defense but isn't really as relevant considering the most common stuff it walls, like noivern or xurkitree, simply pivot on it and make it a liability for most of the game. Sand seems decent in theory though, so I could change my mind if people started running that.


with quag here this seems incredibly hard to justify, although it might still have some sort of niche to stay in c-. hard losing to electrics is a tough sell, though.


As the premier magneton stan and the person who invented the set that beats all the fat steels. This mon is so fucking terrible. Unlike magnezone, who could at least pivot in matchups where it wasn't needed, magneton is entirely dependent on matchup alone and hoping the opponent brings a steel that it can beats. To be fair, it does this pretty consistently once you get there. The issue is more so that.. it just doesn't really matter. Like, there are very few pokemon that specifically require something like metagross 100% dead and are willing to work with a dead slot otherwise to ensure this. Zone struggled with this as well, but magnetons total reliance on its minute niche makes it 10x more hit or miss, and if I wanted that, I would just run durant. I just cant see myself justifying this on any team over something like xatu or incineroar.

- who uses this and for what.


I think glastrier did have a window of time where it was legitimately a cool anti-meta pick that checked quite a few mons with an excellent stab type. However, id be hard-pressed to find any reason to include it on any team unless you are specifically wanting to build with it. And even then, it's such an awkward mon: it requires tons of team support that really limit it to some weird balance teams where you have to compensate for its defensive weaknesses to the point where its niche is just useless. If you want an ice-type breaker, just use vanilluxe or something.


Since dlc2 dropped, it has been very much a theory mon rather than something with a defined niche - in c&c, it was one of the last unreserved analyses simply because no one used it. No one knew what to write about before being picked up by someone who had never used it months after being put up for reservation. I really don't think this has any real significant niche in the tier. Furthermore, with incin, reun, and ghost usage skyrocketing after zarudes departure, sigilyph finds itself in a pretty hostile meta.

- I hate to say it but why would you run drapion


again, similar to sigilyph in that its only "niche" is hitting decently hard across the board. However, it has absolutely no defensive presence at all. Many teams aren't even running scarfers anymore, which means it has a harder time justifying itself in any ru team. Even for teams that do, would you ever consider running this over scarfers like mienshao, flygon, or even gardevoir?

to end this post these are my hot takes no i will not elaborate
A- --> B+
A- --> A
S --> A+
A+ --> S
B+ --> B

 

[Yourwelcomethanku]

Both to B+
Hail is pretty good now that we have Alolan Ninetales. You don't have to stack 2 fighting weaknesses at the start of teambuilding and Ninetales speed and decent threat level make it much more reliable at setting the hail. in contrast to Vanilluxe Ninetales can swap into Togekiss and Noivern a bit better for example and it can offensively check things like Life Orb Mienshao and Togekiss where as Vanliluxe would do worse. Its such a huge buff for hail not having to use such a slow, frail Ice-type, with very limited opportunity to set its hail.

to UR
Alotales exists

A+ to S
Mienshao is extremely splashable onto so many teams with Choice Scarf being so incredibly reliable, however Life Orb with minimal support is also very strong and very difficult to answer. Even Choice scarf sets are quite threatening with the combination of Knock Off, U-turn, and a strong STAB close combat.. Mienshao offers so much to its teams being so incredibly good at keeping momentum with its threat level and U-turn for its teammates. It also has some good limited defensive utility mainly being able to come in on Incineroar.

B+ to A- I have been really liking defensive Starmie as of lately, Cobalion counter, status absorber and pretty reliable hazard removal and can pivot its teammates in well with Teleport. The defensive set can now exist without being blanked and turned into momentum by one of the most common Pokemon in the tier

B To A- Celebi has gotten much better with its primary competition gone. The pivot set with Thunder Wave is very reliable at checking threats throughout a game and paralyzing fast Flying-types. Zarudes removal also means Nasty Plot sets can run Psychic and Earth Power which is very good coverage that hits most of the tier missing out on Necrozma, Reuniclus, Umbreon, and bronzong mainly but that's only 4 Pokemon and Necrozma isn't a good answer to NP Celebi.

B+ to A- Lost its most common offensive check in Zarude and the remaining dark-types are all slower and dislike Drain Punch, since the remaining Dark-types are slower Shadow Sneak is now a lot more threatening.

B to B+ Im suprised Polteageist isn't B+ already. Only a select few Pokemon reliably handle Polteageist Umbreon, Incineroar, and Mimikyu and it defenitely looks better then all of B.

C to B Decidueye is a pretty good alternative to Golurk its not immediately threatened by Xurkitree or Roserade letting it get off an attack in a 1v1 and it immediately threatens our bulky Water-type Pokemon. It can swap into Pokemon Golurk can't safely like Gastrodon and Celebi. Definitely has a few advantages worth using over Golurk.

B- to B Shadow Sneak becomes a lot more threatening with Zarude gone. Doublade still has a lot of its issues such as difficulty fitting a Stealth rocker onto its team and lack of longevity but its more worth building a team around Doublade for the reward especially given that its the best counter to 2 top Pokemon in Cobalion and Reuniclus.

Drops

S to A+ Togekiss isn't needed on as many teams anymore to check Zarude and the Pokemon that have replaced Zarude such as Celebi and Incineroar are harder for Togekiss to handle. Also it just feels often that Crobat or Noivern would be a better choice on many teams for their speed and defensive utility.

A- to B+ Heracross has very tough competition in the form of Mienshao Mienshao is far faster and has Regenerator. Heracross's main advantages are setting Spikes on Hyper offense teams, its defensive utility and destroying Reuniclus and with Megahorn. While these traits are good on the majority of balance teams most of the time Mienshao is going to be the better choice.

A- to B+ Fairly difficult to justify in a metagame with Xurkitree, Xurkitree is already a good wallbreaker however it actually outspeeds Togekiss is not hazard vulnerable and helps its team pivot a lot to compensate for when it can't break. Toxt needs more support to get going and often needs to predict even when it gets in. Xurkitree has also largely replaced it on hyper offense teams using Endure Salac Berry or simply just as a strong pivot.

A- to B+ Registeel I don't think is much better then Steelix or Diancie. Diancie is quite similar to Registeel Diancie however has a great advantage in Heal Bell helping teammates like Milotic and Flygon exponentially reliving them of status. Steelix provides the role compression of a ground immune and is a bit better off vs Pokemon such as Metagross and Flygon. Mainly due to Diancie it seems a bit more specific to justify Registeel onto teams especially considering as a grass resist which is an advantage over Diancie it doesn't actually matchup well into our Grass-types.

A- to B+ Im not too sure why skewda is still so high on the VR. Its a fast pivot sure but its not that immediately threatening without a Choice Band and if its Choice Band it gets warn down and it can't do much to Gastrodon as well still struggling with Pokemon like Milotic.

B to B- Weezing defensively is mostly budget Vileplume and on HO teams it seems its talents as a misty terrain setter are not as valuable anymore.

B to B- Scarf Ttrum can mow offense and does little else and the metagame is not predominantly offense so your generally better off with a different Pokemon, it also has consistency issues thanks to Head Smash.

Roasting the C ranks time

C+ to C
A very specialized wallbreaker. Glastrier can break a lot of this tier it just needs a lot of support to get going.

C to UR There is almost no justification to use Entei over Darmanitan it has Extreme Speed and random burns, however random burns aren't that useful when some of our most common resists would much rather be burned then toxiced. It really does not seem worth using Entei for the opportunity cost of not using Darmanitan who is overall stronger and has U-turn.

C+ to UR Very slim justication to use Inteleon as a fast water Pokemon when Barraskewda and Starmie exists, its main niche over those 2 is U-turn but it needs to hold choice specs so it gets warn down by Stealth rocks and lacks the coverage of Starmie to wallbreak. And even as a lategame Choice Specs cleaner there are still quite a few common Pokemon able to revenge kill it.

C to UR What niche does this thing have on rain? Don't tell me its Shell Smash tell me why Shell Smash gives it a niche. Just seems like a waste on rain teams when there are better Swift Swim Pokemon Like Kabutops, Seismitoad, and Kingdra.

C to UR Very little justification to use Cresselia when Reuniclus is legal. Its primary niche would be as a ground immunity however our tiers Ground-types can thwart it with Toxic, and U-turn if its Flygon.

C to UR Its not even good at creating mindgames cause its hazard vulnerable and with boots its just weak.

C- to UR Why was this ever ranked?

C- to UR read zizalith

And here's more of a hot take
A+ To S. Reuniclus lost one of its most common offensive checks in Zarude and the Calm Mind sets have been popping up much more. Calm Mind Reuniclus has very few reliable answers some being Decidueye, Golurk, Haze Milotic, Mimikyu, Doublade, and Swords Dance Incineroar. These are most of Reuniclus's good answers and most are exploitable. Golurk and Decidueye lack longevity and can be exploited by itemless Pokemon, Milotic can lose if it was Toxiced, Doubalde is a hard counter but it isn't very common. Mimikyu is mainly seen on Hyper Offense teams and those teams generally give Calm Mind Reuniclus little breathing room anyways. Swords Dance Incineroar lacks longevity and is admittedly a pretty solid roadblock. Reuniclus gets plenty of opportunity to set up doing so on most of the tiers defensive Pokemon as well a few offensive ones like Mienshao and Cobalion.

 

[Denial]

More than 2 weeks have passed since we got the new meta, so the VR team planned to have an update some time soon. Before doing so tho, we have some discussion points we would like the playerbase to discuss and give their opinion on.

S -> A+
Togekiss isn't really enjoying the new meta. Electric types are as good as ever, Stakataka is not one of the most popular steels anymore and Diancie has been getting quite a good amount of usage as well. The meta also generally feels way faster, so it's hard for Togekiss to pull off any Air Slash shenanigans.

A+ -> S
It isn't controversial to say Mienshao is probably one the best mon in the tier. I talked a bit about it in my metagame thread post, but Mienshao has no reliable defensive answers and Regenerator shrags off any potential Life Orb/hazards chips. The Choice Scarf set is also one of the most splashable mons ever, having amazing cleaning potential.

A+ -> S
Talking about best mon in the tier, Reuniclus is another big contender. Calm Mind sets are now super popular and with many different variations when it comes to items and movepool, making Reuniclus even more unpredictable. AV sets are still fine and work on some teams, but they're not as popular or needed as they used to be.

A -> A+
With Zarude gone, Incineroar had to take his legacy on his shoulder and it's now the main Dark type of the tier. It's one of the most reliable answers to Chandelure and Polteageist, while Swords Dance sets have been getting more popular to check Reuniclus and are in general better with Rhyperior leaving.

A- -> A/A+
It woulnd't be a generation of RU without Durant being broken. Jokes aside, Durant is one of the best ways to deal with any kind of offensive teams, First Impression is just unstoppable for those kinds of teams. It's also one of the best breakers in general, it has very few (to none) switchins and has an amazing Speed Tier, being above Cobalion. Obviously, Hustle still sucks but that never really holded it back any other time.

B -> B+/A-
Nasty Plot sets have been getting huge popularity, being a decent answer to CMind Reuniclus sets and being in general good wallbreakers with really good variety in coverage.

B -> B+
This is something that should have been done by last meta, so this is just a formality at this point.

B- -> B
Anyone that followed RULT surely noticed Umbreon gaining more and more popularity. Probably the best answer to Polteageist, checks Chandelure and is in general a decent wish passer.

idk figure it out
Quag is one of the best options for stall, Unaware is broken and the typing is good. It still has troubles with most of the Electric types in the tier and Life Orb variants of Reuniclus destroy it, while most physical attackers have ways to circumnavigate it.

Both to B/B+
With Ninetales-Alola dropping, Hail got the best possible weather setter ever, and Arctozolt is extremely scary under it. It still has many problems, like potential opposing weathers matchups or Scarf Mienshao, and Hail is annoying in general cause it chips your own entire team down. Arctozolt itself also isnt that strong without using Life Orb, meaning its gonna wear itself down decently fast if we count hazards as well.

Somewhere in B/B+?
Rain is really awkward. It should be broken, but Politoed is probably the worst weather setter ever. We would like to group the playstile as a whole in one rank tho, so we need to find a place for it. In general, all the Rain sweepers are super good and are only really weak to potent priorities like Durant or Golisopod, Gastrodon being really popular annoys it but it can be dealt with. This is honestly the ranking im the most unsure of, so i would like to hear your opinion on it (Barraskewda is not grouped here cause in general it will always be better as a standalone mon outside of Rain itself, and Barraskewda is also really annoying for rain to deal with ironically).

B-/B
I think Sun is the worse weather outside of the 3, but its still decent at worse and needs to be respected, so the C Ranks don't really do justice to it. It has been extremely popular in Slam with a good winrate, and it still holds a good place in the new meta.

That's all from us, obviously those are discussion points, so if you feel like talking about something else as well you are more than welcomed. If you posted earlier in the thread already, feel free to do so again. Thanks for reading and we hope to see many posts.

 

[C0nfiden1 0yster]

Thought I might throw my opinion into the ring so here we go

Personal Nominations:

A --> A+
Obviously, since the best dark type left the tier, this thing was bound to get better and it certainly has. Not having to worry about Zarude come in and force you out, only for it to click u-turn does wonders as you can stay in and keep delivering punches. Right now I am enjoying rocks gross as you have a couple of different options on your fourth move slot. You could either run toxic to status bulky waters or run grass knot for a more direct method. Bullet punch is also a priority option should your team need it. Also, a cosmic power body press set has been seen a little bit as it catches certain teams off guard.

A --> A+
I feel that Crobat has gotten better and has definitely been more splashable than Noivern since the shifts. This is because it is easier to fit defog on Crobat and its Meinshao match-up is better. Also being the second-fastest pokemon (behind the uncommon barraskewda) in the tier helps it out a ton. It also can run attack ev's now since it no longer needs to switch into Zarude.

Now, this next one might seem like me ranking a very odd, unviable pick, but it has come quite handy from time to time after using it a bit.
UR --> Ranked (not sure where I would put it)
Before you judge me, let me explain.

Scrafty @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 116 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Toxic

Initially, I used Scrafty for a dark type on my team since I needed one and I didn't wanna use incineroar again. The idea was to prevent Reuniclus and teapot sweeps and it does that very effectively. As I was using it though I found it more reliably checked Necrozma as it didn't worry about Meteor beam, earth power, or earthquake, three moves Incineroar struggles with. It also deals with special Sharpedo and can take a couple of hits from non aura sphere Raikou. What I like about it is that it has some form of recovery through leftovers and drain punch, unlike Incineroar who relies on wish support to recover. And it's not like common pokemon like Togekiss wall it, as even that has to worry about knock and toxic. Also with Bulk up, it can become a rare win-con under specific circumstances.

plz don't laugh at me too much when watching these replays XD
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1378704706-znueqnjlozd08cg7zq1ln7eq6md3k60pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1378723895
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1379371478 (skip to turn 23)

I also have a couple of fun replays that are worth watching
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1378721242-kbyjkgipt27evrm3yjhrntikuj6q6jtpw (Scrafty bodies TR)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1378869304 (this was just a semi-interesting game, even though I lost)

S -> A+ AGREE
Togekiss has definitely fallen off a bit and I think the main reason is it has become volt-turn bait for Mienshao and Xurkitree. Despite this using it as a wish passer or status remover (heal bell) is still an amazing trait, along with checking a good chunk of the tier.

A+ -> S AGREE
Mienshao has certainly gotten better over the past couple of months, to the point where it could be considered broken to some. The way most games center around this pokemon makes it worthy of S tier. Also, I do believe this is the best pokemon in the tier, ahead of Reuniclus.

A+ -> S AGREE
CM Reuniclus has gone from becoming a good pokemon to a game-defining setup sweeper. With Zarude leaving the tier, and no other dark types being anywhere as good, it's no wonder that this set got better. However, I think Assualt Vest Reuniclus has been in a slow decline as it's easy to chip down with hazards and status. It also becomes a sitting duck if you knock AV off.

A -> A+ DISAGREE
As mentioned prior, with Zarude leaving Incineroar has become the main dark type of the tier. This has led to an increase in usage but its glaring issues from before have not changed. Due to having no form of recovery, it is extremely prone to chip. Along with it having good but not great bulk can make this unreliable in longer games. I see how it makes progress with knock off and parting shot/u turn, but I don't feel the mon itself is good enough for A+

A- -> A/A+ INDIFFERENT
I haven't really seen or noticed a vast form of improvement over the last couple of weeks despite others telling me its broken (when it hits). I don't feel like I've used or faced Durant enough to really get an opinion.

B -> B+/A- AGREE
Celebi's usage has only increased as it's the closest thing to a Zarude replacement. I mainly have been using the thunder wave set, others have experimented with nasty plot to great success. I actually think it could rise all the way to A and maybe in later parts of the metagame, to A+.

B -> B+ AGREE
I actually think Polteagiest is broken and should be banned, but it only fits on HO teams and ladder hasn't picked up on it yet so people aren't really talking about it. I'm not really sure where we should put this thing.

B- -> B AGREE
This is another attempt to fill the void that Zarude left, sort of. It still has the same issues it did prior but stall, whether you like it or not, did get slightly better. This is because of Quagsire dropping, Xatu getting better, amongst other factors. This will obviously lead to Umbreon's viability to increase. Umbreon also has a role on balance teams as a wish passer which people have used over the past couple of weeks.

idk figure it out AGREE
Quagsire has definitely helped stall out. I would put it in B with Umbreon. I agree with what Nohtori said about it above

Both to B/B+ AGREE (only to B tho, not B+)
Since Alolan Ninetails has dropped, hail has picked up in usage and although Aurora Veil isn't good, hail still has other options. I think B+ is too high as hazards amongst other things chip these two mons down quite easily. If they are running boots they often lack the necessary power to break some of the fatter walls of the tier. Scarf Meinshao outspeeds Arctozolt in hail which is a huge hit on its sweeping potential.

Somewhere in B/B+? DISAGREE
Rain is not very good and is very match-up dependent. Water absorbers like Gastrodon, Seismitoad, and Volcanion annoy it as well as other bulky waters like Milotic. Also, getting in these sweepers is difficult due to Politoed being ass unable to pivot and rain sweepers being generally frail. As mentioned prior, things like First impression Durant and First impression Golispod also don't help rain.

B-/B AGREE
Sun is ok, nothing super special but it has its niche. That being said though, I think the order of weather viability goes hail>sun>rain>sand. I say sun is better than rain as Charizard can Fireblast its way through certain water types while I don't think rain can do the same. And options like Shiftry can break mostly everything that isn't named Togekiss.

Other noms that I agree with:
B+ --> A-
B+ --> A-
C --> B+ (ik others nom'ed to B, but I think it's B+)
B+ --> A-
B- --> B
A- --> B+

That's it for now, hope you enjoyed reading! (Big thanks to ywt for making sure this list of nonsense makes at least a lil but of sense) :)

 

[GoldCat]

to B
I've been spamming sun for a good while now and I've found it to be very potent in the current meta. In my opinion, it's (by far) the best and most consistent weather. Sun has a really great matchup against the majority of the tier with few to no truly unplayable ones. However, I'm not talking about the all-or-nothing style of sun seen in Grand Slam, which I find strong but overreliant on the likes of Charizard (an inconsistent and heavy maintenance Pokemon) to work. The sun I found success with is that of Torkoal, Shiftry, Entei + 3 'mons to patch up weaknesses and bad matchups. I particularly love Scarf Gardevoir on sun teams, as Healing Wish is just too good to give up on. If we're going to rank the weather styles together then I think for sun it should be Torkoal, Shiftry, and Entei in B rank while Charizard's in B- / C+ and Heliolisk's in C+. Torkoal and Shiftry are obvious mainstays on sun teams but Entei might need some explaining. In my experience, Entei has been a way more consistent wallbreaker than Charizard and Heliolisk with it not constantly having to take damage at the end of the turn. That way Entei's not worn down too quickly and can actually switch into attacks. Sure, Charizard's Fire-type attacks are nuclear in the sun, but so is Banded Sacred Fire. Way too many people have the (incorrect) notion of Darmanitan being better than Entei. Not only that's not true in general (CB Entei on non-sun teams is great especially together with AV Reuniclus) but for sun teams it's the complete opposite. Entei, imo, heavily outclasses Darmanitan. E-speed, higher Speed (outspeeding Mimikyu is huge), WAY better bulk, doesn't kill itself half of the time, and Inner Focus (so Incineroar can't pivot in on your Fire-type attacks) are way too valuable to give up just so you can have HDB Darmanitan.

stay C+
Rain really should be broken but it is so underwhelming in practice and I've found it to be the worst weather in the tier (I much rather use sand over it). The sweepers just struggle a bit too much to break common teams to make up for the fact that rain teams have to have useless ass Politoed as the setter. Rain teams also have some really rough matchups like AV Reuniclus, Celebi, Golisopod, and Scarf Gardevoir to name a few. Also, I think Kingdra (and Ludicolo, pls rank it) should be in C alongside Kabutops and Omastar (if they stay ranked, honestly idt they're worth it on rain) because they are niche even on rain teams. The main rain staples are Barraskewda and Seismitoad and you'll be hardpressed to fit anymore, as you want the last slots for mons like Toxicroak, Tornadus, and an AV Reuniclus answer (Celebi, Klefki, etc.).

C to B+
Pangoro is just fantastic, both Swords Dance and Choice Band sets are really nice right now. Choice Band is great for OHKOing non-Colbur Berry Reuniclus (most are Life Orb or Leftovers), which Obstagoon for example fails to achieve. CB Pangoro is also a fantastic stallbreaker with it often having free entry against Umbreon. Swords Dance trades a bit worse matchup against stall (unless CC > Drain Punch) for a far better one against BO and Balance, as it can threaten Mienshao with +2 Iron Fist boosted Bullet Punch after a tiny bit of damage.

S to A+ Disagree
Togekiss still demands at least two solid checks (one offensive, one defensive) from most teams and I find it often more restrictive in the builder than Xurkitree, Mienshao, or Reuniclus. Though, Togekiss is far easier to handle in-game mainly because its counterplay is for the most part really solid. I've found Togekiss to have been affected net-positively or net-neutral by the tier shift. Rhyperior rising is obviously a welcomed change, Diancie is more common but getting a Knock Off or Toxic on it is far from the hardest thing to achieve, and Xurkitree being the most common Electric over Raikou is great due to its far worse bulk so Flamethrower does a ton and a burn is game over. Umbreon becoming popular is also great for Togekiss, as it's not only a mon it can exploit but it becoming the tier's best cleric which is huge for Togekiss because it absolute hates Toxic. Reuniclus at its peak has caused Dark- and Ghost-types like Pangoro, Golurk, and Decidueye to become more prevalant, which are even more favourable matchups for Togekiss. Togekiss is also in high demand, as NP Togekiss a pretty solid answer to CM Reuniclus. Also, I think Trick + Scarf is now a legit set with being great against stall and can bs through teams late-game. I think this another classic case of the Zarude fallacy. Just because Togekiss is no longer at its peak of glory as the best 'mon in the tier doesn't mean it's no longer a top tier mon and is clear-cut above the rest of A+ (not counting Mienshao and Reuniclus) with maybe the exception of Xurkitree.

 

[LBN]

Aight i know we are in suspect territory rn but i'm still gonna say some noms while keeping in mind the potential but likely effects mienshao leaving would bring, or just things that i think should rise/fall regardless of any effects mienshao's shift could feasibly bring. Aka new drops and mons i think are needing drops/rises. First imma agree/disagree with some previous mentions i think are notable.

to A+ Disagree

Stay C+ Agree

To B+ Agree but not B+, maybe B

to B Agree but Entei goes to B-

To B Agree

To B/B+ Agree to B

To A+ Disagree

To S Agree

Now for my own, most of the above arguments i agree with but i wanna add my own in or repeat others i feel like talking bout, mainly cleansing the C ranks of trash

C to UR
Tell me the last time ya'll saw this thing used, please let me know because i don't see a single reason to use ninjask here. We have solid bugs and flying types with actual defensive utility and while it can on very few occasions be threatening with like... power herb dig SD it's also 4x weak to rocks and actually just dies to durant first impression like im not even kidding shit does like 90 min and its RESISTED get this outta here
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninjask: 237-279 (90.1 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO BRO

to UR
Your superiors have arrived with the shifts get up outta here, i like you both but naw begone.

to C-/UR
So hard to fit these 2 on rain. I can see more hope for Kabutops honestly thanks to Leech life just moly wopping Celebi and having Flip turn, but i can't see a chance for Omastar, Gastrodon be movin, and it gets stuffed by priority and bulky waters to a hard degree in trying to do any Smashing good times. Also Vulnerable to AV reuniclus unlike its brother, so yeah. I can see some very small hope for it but frankly it's probably not worth the trouble. Kabutops i do support staying though.

C- to UR
On god why are you here, you trap literally none of our steels except maybe steelix with magnet rise but on god is Steelix rlly that big a deal to rank this trash? Most of them pack Body press, and klefki isnt really the hardest to wear down, it's just annoying and would setup 3 layers as you trap it anyway.

C- to UR
Yeah no thanks why would i use this. It's threatening if you can somehow setup with it but man so is Porygon-Z and nobody uses that thing either. I might get to them later but i might put it in the same boat as Zoroark where "im not sure if i wanna call it ass because its very appreciative of Mienshao probably leaving and might prove me wrong" category imma put in later. Sets up on Togekiss and Crobat but is deathly afraid of most of the priority and any scarfers. It may prove me wrong like zoro and pory-z but i think it's more safe to unrank than those 2 because atleast with P2 its a bonofide nuke and zoro can be threatening to some teams with like boots np or sumthin and the psychic immunity gives it more entries than this mut.

UR to one of the C ranks (aint got replays but i think it's niche would speak for itself)
Another potential dark type which is in scarce supply. A perfect response to Polteageist and a fantastic switchin to Chandelure on select stall teams or even balance teams who wants their dark slot to also handle Volcanion acceptably well. A solid Dtail, knock, heavy slam and rest set ala NU would do wonders right now, and while annoyed by Cobalion most stalls would have Quagsire so that's not the end of the world. It's competition for Dark stall slot with umbreon is fierce but i think it's access to knock, fazing and Diancie killing role sets it apart enough to see some role. It's fazing role is even better when CM Reuni loves to trash a stall, and this would make the matchup far less of a headache. As i said i don't have replays for it unfortunately but it's got a niche i think can be tested/seen from the eye which is the main reason im bringing it up.

B to B-/C+
A case similar to lycanroc but not as bad. It's deathly fear of priority stays but if you ran it offensively it's got it better at the least. It's suicide lead niche isnt bad but it's more niche than a webs suicide lead, which is where C+ comes in below ribombee. Sweepers/nukes can be terrifying but that doesn't matter if they cant ever get into position to do their job. Aero has a wider range than Lycanroc thanks to DWB, granting access to grass types to force out or claim, but it's not a metagame bender and definitely doesn't deserve B rank especially. Speaking of birds who don't deserve B rank...

B to B-
this sprite fcking sucks... for real though it's defensive scope isn't the worst thing in the world and it's speed is solid and is great for stalls and lucario especially. However besides that honestly i wouldn't ever use this thing outside of stall. It's Crobat with Will-o-wisp which tbh isnt terrible atall but it's also the only thing setting it apart really, and in most cases it isn't enough to justify the more niche defensive typing, water fear and more grave fear of knock/corrosive. Crobat just does it's job better most of the time.

B to B+
Ya'll don't know true fear bro. Durant? durant who just get lucky 4head. Jokes aside lucario takes no prisoners anymore. Idk why Zarude leaving was what made this mon decide aight i've had enough but hey i ain't complaining unless i run into it. Capable of trashing stalls since quag just drops to 2 life orb CCs, while cobalion is just laughed off the stage. Strong priority, and while frail and lacking defensive utility, so is Durant and this mon is incredible on webs, and i think B+ does it justice, but going further is pushing it a lil

B+ to B
Kings rock got banned WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Ban hurt this thing and good i couldnt care less. Shoutout finchinator the PIONEER. Honestly though even without that ban I still woulda called for the drop. It's Cloyster so it's always threatening but now it cant just cheat past waters like it did before, and Cobalion is a thorn in it's side, and imo this thing is soft locked to HOs. I think i could take this one back perhaps upon Mienshao leaving but as it stands i think B is better for this scum of the earth cheater piece of very fair pokemon!

A- to B+/B
I wanted this thing banned before and i can't believe it LMAO. Actually i can thing thing hits like a freight train. That's all it does though and the Pory-Z theorem applies here too. Strength doesn't matter if you never get to use it, and i'd also probably just rather use xurkitree's broken ass instead, and i'd rather use Raikou over this thing even post Xurkitree banishing session. (please bro thing was just as requested as mienshao was on god that thing is a plague on my grounds)

A to S
Man walmart brand garchomp going crazy right now! To be completely serious mienshao aside this mon is definitely in the top 3 mons in the tier alongside Togekiss and Reuniclus to me. I don't know who i'd put 1st 2nd 3rd but those are definitive top 3s to me. Flygon can do so many things and as always it does em all well. Raikou check? Easy. Scarfer? Oh baby absolutely? Splashable electric immunity? Oh dont mind if i do. DD sweeper and hazard removal option? Damn the hero of the story really is the goat. Jokes aside this mon is so so good, it's 2nd in usage right now and it's no surprise, NU is crying rn but those tiers give me life seeing Vibrava on their S rank. It's like togekiss in the sense that anything you need from it it will perform at that role, and alot of times you can't tell which it is on preview, which is incredible.

C+ to B-
Not entirely outclassed by Reuniclus after all, it's niche is being effectively a fast reuniclus with an offensive Calm Mind set, and it's speed is fantastic outrunning generally fast things such as Obstagoon, Roserade, and Mimkyu (Will sneak you but it not being able to Claw instead can be clutch) It has options in it's kit such as Heat wave, Tinted Lens is always fun, but I like it and when i used it while messing around in RULT it was alot of fun, even if I continued my pattern of top 8 for 90% of the week until tilt last moment. It being a flying type not needing boots atall is also a massive boon for it.

And thats all for the noms, special mention to these mons below for me wanting to call to drop them, but not sure if i can call them complete trash until a lil messing around post Mienshao leaving.

One final thing however. So... i heard my baby

had a chance to drop this month? Aight so here's what i want everybody to do. Use my baby, i will not let him get disrespected like this by all you people not using my boy. he is GOOD, he is CUTE, he gives great hugs and he takes no prisoners. I am a proud member of the Snorlax Defense Squad and i will defend my hug buddy until i draw my last breath. He's built like a friend.

 

[Yourwelcomethanku]

to C-/UR
So hard to fit these 2 on rain. I can see more hope for Kabutops honestly thanks to Leech life just moly wopping Celebi and having Flip turn, but i can't see a chance for Omastar, Gastrodon be movin, and it gets stuffed by priority and bulky waters to a hard degree in trying to do any Smashing good times. Also Vulnerable to AV reuniclus unlike its brother, so yeah. I can see some very small hope for it but frankly it's probably not worth the trouble. Kabutops i do support staying though.

B to B-
this sprite fcking sucks... for real though it's defensive scope isn't the worst thing in the world and it's speed is solid and is great for stalls and lucario especially. However besides that honestly i wouldn't ever use this thing outside of stall. It's Crobat with Will-o-wisp which tbh isnt terrible atall but it's also the only thing setting it apart really, and in most cases it isn't enough to justify the more niche defensive typing, water fear and more grave fear of knock/corrosive. Crobat just does it's job better most of the time.

B to B- Disagree
Talonflame has an incredibly important defensive role in handling Durant. With its defensive EV spread of 252 def and 16 HP it is the most reliable way to handle Durant that we have. even bulky water-types can just die to the combination of First Impression and Superpower.

Calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 212-251 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 188-222 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant First Impression vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 231-274 (54.2 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Durant Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 205-243 (48.1 - 57%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

to C-/UR Disagree
Omastar sucks that can drop. Kabutops can run Life Orb with Superpower and Swords Dance to hit Gastrodon and put it in range of teammates like Barreskewda or Seismitoad, or have its teammates weaken Gastrodon like Toxic Raikou so that it can sweep. its quite hard to fit on teams yes but can be quite rewarding.

Calc

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gastrodon: 313-369 (73.4 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[CryoGyro]

Just gonna speak on Ninjask cause there seem to be some misunderstandings about why it was ranked: it used Boots to pose a fairly unique threat to bulky offense, forcing out the spammed Zarude and freely chipping Steel-types with U-turn without needing entry hazard control, then threatening to clean up late-game with a Speed tier Scarf users can't touch after Speed Boost. Without a super common 4x Bug-weak Pokemon to exploit and plenty of other meta changes, it probably doesn't have enough decent matchups anymore, but let's not throw around misinforming stuff like "dies to rocks" when arguing against it.

 

[gorex]

VR Update (Dated 12/8/2021)

Rises:

A+ -> S

A -> A+

A -> A+

A -> A+

A -> A+

A- -> A+

B+ -> A-

B+ -> A-

B+ -> A-

B+ -> A-

B -> A-

B -> B+

B -> B+

B -> B+

B- -> A-

B- -> B+

B- -> B

C+ -> B-

C+ -> B-

C+ -> B-

C -> B

C -> B

C -> B-

C -> B-

C -> B-

C -> B-

C -> C+

Drops:

S -> A+

A+ -> A

A- -> B+

A- -> B+

A- -> B+

B+ -> B

B+ -> B

B+ -> B

B -> B-

B -> B-

B -> B-

B -> B-

B -> C+

B- -> C+

B- -> C+

C+ -> C

C+ -> C

C -> C-

C -> C-

C -> C-

Additions:

UR -> B+

UR -> B-

UR -> C+

UR -> C+

UR -> C+

Removals:

B- -> UR

C+ -> UR

C+ -> UR

C -> UR

C -> UR

C -> UR

C -> UR

C -> UR

C -> UR

C -> UR

C -> UR

C -> UR

C- -> UR

C- -> UR

C- -> UR

C- -> UR

On top of this, we are trying out a new initiative where we are ranking the different weather in the VRs, and listing a few mons that fit in that playstyle along with it. Do let us know if this change is welcome or feels like excess.

Hail (

) -> B
Rain (

) -> B
Sun (

) -> B

 

[Reece]

Now the meta has settled a wee bit, i'd like to say my thoughts on a couple of mons

C+ -> B/B+
This thing has grown on me due to its ability to (most of the time check Reuniclus), Roserade and Choice locked Toxitricity with it's potential paired utility.It can go on the offensive with a Swords Dance set that threatens any Bulky teams that lack a prominant fire type such as Talonflame/Incinaroar. Having access to Knock-Off and Toxic can create an Utility role when beating pivot heavy mons such as Incinaroar/raikou/xurkitree throughout the game if you do not need a breaker.

Click the sprite for the current set i use
84 Speed EVs creeps no speed invest Reunuiclus and HeavyDuty-Boots is self explanitory to consistently checking reun

Calcs!

Spoiler

76 Atk Escavalier Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 168-198 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
76 Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 308-366 (72.6 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
76 Atk Swarm Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 458-542 (108 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 0 SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Escavalier: 124-147 (36 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Xurkitree Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Escavalier: 144-171 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (can be an option to knock Xurk,if needed for speed control)
76 Atk Escavalier Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xurkitree: 237-279 (77.1 - 90.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

76 Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mimikyu: 284-336 (113.1 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Escavalier: 222-263 (64.5 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

76 Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 338-398 (122 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Escavalier: 151-178 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO (non mysticalfire varients which are not seen anyways)

76 Atk Escavalier Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales-Alola: 604-712 (210.4 - 248%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Escavalier: 103-122 (29.9 - 35.4%) -- 26.4% chance to 3HKO

Also lowkey a great partner for rain for checking grasses like rotom / roserade when having a lack of tornadus

On the topic of weather

Rain ( ) -> B Agree
However i think Kingdra should be ranked C+ , it has unmistakably strong immediate power but having this is not always great when you hit roadblocks like bulky waters instantly that wall rain the majority of the time. On this point i believe should also be ranked in B with them, being able to break these walls, whilst maintaining turns in rain from not having to switch out on bulky waters , taking Kingdras spot in rain in my eyes.

Hail ( ) -> B+
Semi Hail definately has the edge over the other weathers in this tier due to it not forcing you into a full weather comp, allowing to pair with large threats like Gardevoir etc. Also has more consistent hazard removal support in mons like starmie giving sweeping longevity

Sun ( ) -> B/B+
Not much to explain here, having Xatu in pair with Charizard makes this terrifying, but not consistent enough. Entei alone could make this B too, which I believe should have a valuable mention, if you havent checked GoldCats post a bit above I'd reccomend doing so.

Few Hot takes i will not explain

Rises
A+ -> S
C+ -> B
A- ->A
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B- -> B


Drops
A+ -> A
A -> A-
B+ -> B
C -> C- /UR
B- -> C+

 

[albabimam04]

Now that both and have been banned I can finally make this (please work icons)
Also damn nobody posted anything here for 2 weeks. Might as well change that with a few noms


-> B+/B
The queen does have good things going for it. Most importantly, it's the single best offensive check to the absolutely terrifying and it's coverage allows it to really break down bulky cores. However, it's speed and 4ss let's it down. It's base 76 speed is a really big let down since it turns from a really good switch-in into a 54% chance to just die and accomplish nothing. The 4ss syndrome though. It's just so ridiculous. It needs Fire Blast for defensive grasses , Sludge Bomb for the fairies, Ice Beam for , Earth Power for steels and water/grounds, Stealth Rock as a lead off against more offensive teams and Shadow Ball for , which is, the best pokemon in the tier.

Against offensive teams it struggles to switch-in consistently with it's only real switch in being the aforementioned . And then it's really prediction reliant. You usually have to guess correctly which pokemon your opponent is going to switch into otherwise there will be big trouble.

-> B
Hail has lost it's best abuser but it's not that bad. Why, well is here and it's almost as good. It Freeze Dry + Fishous Rend + Icicle Crash hits just about everything in the tier, even gets 2HKOed by LO Fishous Rend. (Also I can't really nom Arctovish here since I don't have a replay yet but I think most people agree with me)

-> S-/S
Lol why was this dropped again? Well, I guess and , 2 good revenge killers, were here. Where are they now? Poof, vanished. Banished from RU. Anyway, ending small talk. Togekiss has firmly established itself in RU, again. Why is it so good? It has effective 0 defensive counterplay thanks to Air Slash flinches. While a 54% flinch rate is not something you would want to consistently rely on, it is there, and it is something you have to keep in mind. Even something as on paper good against Togekiss as Specially Defensive and Specially Defensive are at risk of getting broken down almost single-handedly by . Don't believe me?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1414681905-j2whx40kkj9wdn7l1bb8thc5qe4gvs6pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1414671202-lgmzm2ip6cvl6c8gf9ediersjio4fr0pw
This was my Round 1 RU Fall Seasonal Match against Meru (thank you for the battle man, you played well) and even though I lost just looking at the replays would tell you just what I am talking about.
It's not just against defensive teams too. Even offensive teams often have a massive headache trying to deal with this, since it's revenge-killers are basically limited to , , , and Choice Scarf . And catch this, the latter four are even unable to kill it from full without a boosting item of sorts while the latter three are deathly afraid of a boosted Flamethrower.
Togekiss generally doesn't even have difficulty switching-in either. It's great bulk and typing allow it to come on many walls while simultaneously sporting a quadruple resistance to Bug and Fighting, a resistance to dark and grass, alongside an immunity to Ground, meaning that it generally doesn't have a difficult time switching in.

It's not just Togekiss' Nasty Plot set, oh no. It would be wayy to simple to deal with if it had 1 set. Defensive cleric sets with Wish and Heal Bell are really useful, especially as so many defensive pokemon are targetted and handicapped by Toxic (, ) and so many of them lack recovery (, ). It also provides a soft blanket check to , . and .

While these 2 are the main sets, there are a few more niche ones like Choice Scarf you have to mentally prepare for. And considering all the points I made, I feel like Togekiss is highly worthy of returning to S, and if not that, S-

 

[Yourwelcomethanku]

-> S-/S
Lol why was this dropped again? Well, I guess and , 2 good revenge killers, were here. Where are they now? Poof, vanished. Banished from RU. Anyway, ending small talk. Togekiss has firmly established itself in RU, again. Why is it so good? It has effective 0 defensive counterplay thanks to Air Slash flinches. While a 54% flinch rate is not something you would want to consistently rely on, it is there, and it is something you have to keep in mind. Even something as on paper good against Togekiss as Specially Defensive and Specially Defensive are at risk of getting broken down almost single-handedly by . Don't believe me?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1414681905-j2whx40kkj9wdn7l1bb8thc5qe4gvs6pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1414671202-lgmzm2ip6cvl6c8gf9ediersjio4fr0pw

Hello just some of my own thoughts
-> S-/S disagree
Togekiss is a solid Pokemon, however the metagame is very well prepared for it, there isn't much that Togekiss comfortably checks defensively almost everything can thwart it in some capacity even landing a Toxic could be enough, which means it often doesn't have clear set up opportunity in the replays you found a Noivern and a Vaporeon to set up on this doesn't always happen of course. Togekiss's speed tier is middling, and its an inadequate fighting check due to its weakness to Toxicroak and Cobalion. Raikou and Xurkitree are pretty reliable checks to it that can turn it into momentum. Specially Defensive Diancie has fallen a bit I think Registeel is a bit better currently but that is still a good check to Togekiss. with all this in mind I do not think Togekiss should rise.

-> B+/B
The queen does have good things going for it. Most importantly, it's the single best offensive check to the absolutely terrifying and it's coverage allows it to really break down bulky cores. However, it's speed and 4ss let's it down. It's base 76 speed is a really big let down since it turns from a really good switch-in into a 54% chance to just die and accomplish nothing. The 4ss syndrome though. It's just so ridiculous. It needs Fire Blast for defensive grasses , Sludge Bomb for the fairies, Ice Beam for , Earth Power for steels and water/grounds, Stealth Rock as a lead off against more offensive teams and Shadow Ball for , which is, the best pokemon in the tier.

-> B+/B disagree
I think you greatly underestimate Nidoqueen. I don't quite get the issue of four moveslot syndrome being a big problem for it Ice Beam Earth Power and Sludge Wave hits almost the whole tier. and no you don't need Fire Blast for the defensive Grass-types Ice beam also hits those. on certain teams you could feasibly drop Stealth Rock on Nidoqueen for more coverage such as Crunch or Fire Blast maybe run Taunt to mess with Umbreon. I know Nidoqueen is a poison type but you really should not be using it as your Togekiss answer so I don't think that's too much an issue. Nidoqueen does have some problems offensive teams may give it very limited opportunity to come in and fatter teams could switch into it, but it still does have many good traits such as being able to destroy Registeel check the Electrics provide Stealth Rock and more. I would lean more towards Nidoqueen being A tier.

-> B
Hail has lost it's best abuser but it's not that bad. Why, well is here and it's almost as good. It Freeze Dry + Fishous Rend + Icicle Crash hits just about everything in the tier, even gets 2HKOed by LO Fishous Rend. (Also I can't really nom Arctovish here since I don't have a replay yet but I think most people agree with me)

-> B Agree in some capacity
While Ninetales-A is in the tier I think hail has some viability. Ninetales-A should be ranked higher than Arctovish. Nasty plot Ninetales-A has some viability as a set up sweeper most notably taking advantage of the presence of Umbreon in the metagame.

 

[LBN]

It's been a month and 2 bans since my last one, lets do it again baby, first the nidoqueen nom and then some rises/drops as usual

UR to A
This mon kills everything bro it's not ok. Frankly ya'll calling this the Xurkitree answer we've been waiting for is a huge lie but hey it's a good soft check alongside the like 4 other pokemon that manage it. Xurkitree aside this mon is great. Good offensive rocker, acceptable speed tier and well rounded stats, few pokemon aside from stuff like AV Reuniclus and Umbreon are handling this, and vs offense it should generally be taking atleast 1 body. Quality electric immunity alongside dazzle resist does make this the best offensive Xurkitree check we have, but frankly i look at the calc again and see 43-51% from Energy ball and go back into my depression corner.

A+ to A
Probably a hot take but i don't think this thing belongs in A+. Being a fake steel is TRASH and while it's got a good SD set so many teams have Crobat/Noivern/Talonflame/Starmie or anything that can revenge it well that I feel it doesn't help. Pokemon like Vileplume rising and alot of the recent bans/rises have hurt it. Durant leaving is yet another thing it lost to check w the rocks set since Zarude left too and frankly that set is kinda bad at checking things. The rise of Umbreon is good but considering it's trying to check Reuniclus of all things yeah Cobalion doesn't like that much. Togekiss falling off hurts it too. Like frankly I just feel like I'm better off using a different steel or using a different fighting type like Pangoro or Metagross/Registeel/Steelix etc.

B- to B+/A-
THIS MON IS INSANE LMAO it kills everything bro. It's better than Obstagoon imo, CB smashes through so much on a level similar to Golurk and while it's not an electric immunity it is a ghost resist that can live a Teapot shot, which is honestly just as good really. Durant leaving helps as it's another mon that outsped it, and it can also choose to keep momentum with Parting Shot. Frankly i think B+ is great for it, and it's being sorely undersold on this outdated VR fr why is durant and arctozolt STILL on here lmao.

B+ to B
Arctozolt left bro send this mon back down to B rn LOL. I do think Arctovish could be solid but it's definitely far worse than Arctozolt was, but i need to test that mon out if anything.

B+ to B
Budget Xurkitree is down terrible rn huh. Really though this mon has like -100 defensive utility and while it's strong, Xurkitree is just better at that by far and it's speed isn't good enough to keep up. Reuniclus being the GOAT, Togekiss slowing down and Crobat can just U-turn, rlly why would i use this over broken ass xurkitree or Raikou lmao

A+ to RUBL
Consider this my support of the next suspect LOL. not spending too much time on this since it isn't an actual VR nom but naw this thing is still broken. It generally requires 2 or more checks to it on most teams to stave it off since it just beats every ground in the tier with ease and volt switches on the Grasses all day. It's not hard to get it either since most teams has atleast 1 mon it forces out, like a bulky-water or a flying type like Crobat Talon or Togekiss. AV Reuni and Umbreon gotta stay at basically full to keep it off too, which is easy as hell to exploit. Does it have checks? Yes. Is it broken and a plague on building, also yes. Polteageist is stupid but atleast it isn't constantly used and it's a commitment pick, xurk is fairly splashable.

Generally that's it though. I got a couple other things but i wanna keep those thoughts for SSNL tbhh, i got a couple things i wanna keep under raps for now.

 

[Fabi_ODST]

B+ to B
Arctozolt left bro send this mon back down to B rn LOL. I do think Arctovish could be solid but it's definitely far worse than Arctozolt was, but i need to test that mon out if anything.

As someone who messed with hail a lot, I can say with 90% confidence that Arctovish is way worse than his electric counterpart, for 2 main reasons
a. His offensive stats are even lower than arctozolt, and the bulk he gets in exchange tends to be meaningless
b. You tend to be checked more easily by good team compositions. Arctozolt required active counterplay to be dealt with effectively, and a bunch of good reads from the opponent to reduce his effectiveness. With arctovish, most of your standard walls can still do a good job checking him and either cripple it or straight up KO it. Mons like registeel and milotic can take a hit and either toxic or scald burn it respectively, doublade can close combat into shadow sneak while avoiding the 2HKO most of the time, golisopod can force him out while not being KOed by freeze dry, volcanion checks all sets with no stone edge, etc.

The fish abomination also shares the weakness of his electric brother to base 91+ speed scarfers and the occasional trace gardevoir, which were already good hail countermeasures.

So yeah, I support this drop

 

[C0nfiden1 0yster]

seen a couple of vr posts recently, thought I might make one too.

C --> B
B --> C

Don't really care too much about the exact placements but I think Barbaricle over Cloyster rn. Barb is stronger (power wise) and is better equipped to deal with some of the fatter mons of the tier including Registeel, Gastrodon, and, Volcanion thanks to its Water/Rock move combo as oppose to Cloyster's Ice/Rock move combo (granted you could run Liquidation). Mimikyu matchup is the only specific mu I feel that Cloyster has a dramatic advantage over Barb. Also, Cloyster has better bulk and typing so it can set up easier but the reward for doing so is minimal as you can't find a way through a lot of the tier like Barb can.

A- --> B

Incin and Umbreon are everywhere and it doesn't do enough when they aren't there. Dramatically worse than a lot of wallbreakers

B --> C+

Shao is gone and outside of checking that, it is quite useless and overall inferior to other walls. Even on stall I don't think this mon is incredible, but it does have its purpose.

Stay A+

I think this mon is defo still A+ and its mainly the small things for me. Its steel type makes chipping it difficult, its defensive stats allow it to tank certain hits, its high speed is much appreciated, and now not having to worry about Durant outspeed it is nice. And as a fighting-type, your job is to beat steels and darks which it very much does, despite its low base attack (compared to other physical attackers). I think all those small traits and victories still keep it in A+.

A- --> A

This mon is great rn, it cleans so well and so consistently in so many endgames. It doesn't mind Durant ban since it was never really a problem for it. It has chances to come in and it importantly deals with Reun. This mon has overall enjoyed the rise of Psychic types and Ghost types, whilst a lot being able to deal with most other darks.

B+ --> A-

We've seen this be used a lot more in tour's recently and it has had success. Its typing and ability are extremely useful as it can switch in on things like Flygon without having to worry about its STAB's, or copy a weather speed boosting ability. Scarf has been the main set used as it can either trick onto a bulky steel, use healing wish, or flat out attack. Durant leaving only helps it too, and although it cannot switch into Nidoqueen, it does copy Sheer Force making it stronger that it already is. I also wantto mention specs cause I think its a bit underrated.



I think that's all the noms I wanna make for today, I agree with Nido --> A, Pangoro --> B+, and Toxtricity --> B. Ludicolo should also join the other rain mons in B-. Hope you enjoyed reading!

 

[Yourwelcomethanku]

Hello, is there a way to start these posts that isn't cringe, anyway.
Rises
UR to A/A-
Honestly not as good as I thought it'd be, but its a pretty solid wallbreaker. The offensive nature of the metagame limits its opportunities to wallbreak despite it having the coverage to do so and there are bulky specially defensive Pokemon like Assault Vest Reuniclus and Umbreon that can take it on. And if your not aware Xurkitree Energy ball is a clean 3HKO to uninvested Nidoqueen. Nidoqueen does have some good qualities such as its typing letting it take on Registeel, and its pretty hard to wall unless your using really fat specially defensive Pokemon.

Not sure if this should stay A+
Cobalion is still a very threatening sweeper with Swords Dance when facilitated correctly, though it doesn't threaten a lot out immediately and is fairly easy to revenge kill with stuff like Raikou and Noivern. Though Cobalion could take advantage of teams who rely on Choice Scarf Flygon to revenge kill if it elects to run Magnet Rise.

A to A+
Raikou should have never dropped imo. But with Mienshao now gone the metagame has changed significantly, you can no longer slap scarf shao on a lot of teams and call it your speed control, making Raikou's speed tier in the current metagame more valuable. It was also much easier to build teams with Xurkitree during the Mienshao metagame.

B+ to A-
Fairly solid wallbreaker, and no longer competing with Life Orb Mienshao for that role. I think I have seen boots Heracross with Spikes, fairly cool Spikes setter considering it also has Knock Off to thwart the common Defog Crobat or Stone Edge.

B+ to A-
Simply put I think Milotic is a more important Pokemon then the rest of the current B+ tier with its defensive capabilities.

B to A-
Bronzong is just good, Levitate gives Bronzong a very clear advantage over its competition being able to check Steelix, Metagross, and especially Flygon.

B- to B+
Great wallbreaker especially with its main competition in Mienshao now gone. Takes advantage of Umbreon very well. The ghost resistance is key allowing it to check Polteageist. I know people have used band but SD is also good and a bit better imo due to the boosted priority giving you more justification to use it over Heracross and its protect doesn't scout it safely. having more easily spammed STABs and a Dark-typing is enough justification on its own though.

C- to C
Tangela has a good niche on stall teams able to check Golurk, Electric-types, and has Knock off. Its probably not as bad as Tauros or Ninjask.


Drops

A- to B+
Umbreon and Incineroar are very common the current metagame and both hamper Chandelure's ability to wallbreak, which is not a desirable trait for a wallbreaker. With Choice Specs it can break Umbreon though that is higher maintenance. it also has mediocre speed leaving it easy to out offense. Taunt Toxic Chandelure might be something interesting to take advantage of the 2 best Dark-types in the tier but I haven't seen that as of yet.

A- to B+
Stakataka faces Competition from other specially defensive Pokemon in Registeel and Diancie. Stakataka's main advantages over its competition are its ability to counter Noivern, and more importantly reliably pressure bulky Water-type Pokemon with Toxic courtesy of its stronger offensive presence. I just think there are too few situations where you justify Stakataka over its competition, it instantly dies to Necrozma's boosted Earth Power and dies to Mimikyu's Swords Dance boosted Drain Punch. Registeel can also take super effective hits such as from Steelix, Flygon, and Metagross, and potentially trade something meanigful with them, where as Stakataka would almost be OHKOd if not OHKOd by them.

B+ to C+
RIP Arctozolt. Ninetales still does have its plot set which is good at taking advantage of the presence of Umbreon in the metagame and specs is an ok wallbreaker. I tried it with Arctovish it just ain't the same.

B+ to B
Extremely difficult to justify over Xurkitree. Not being able to afford heavy-duty boots makes Toxtricity a less effective pivot and even as a wallbreaker given Pokemon such as Steelix and Assault Vest Reuniclus in the metagame its not even always better at that. On top of these issues it can be more prediction heavy than Xurkitree as well.

B to B-
Outside of Weezing's utility movepool its pretty much bad Vileplume unless your talking about the Misty Terrain set, which hasn't been experimented with a ton. Its utility movepool is admittedly valuable, however it invites in stuff like Necrozma, Roserade, Reuniclus, and just almost any special attacker with decent defensive stats really.


C to UR
Frosslass is not good, if I want a Spikes user on hyper offense I would rather use Heracross or Roserade who offer more defensive utility and have more offensive presence.

My thoughts about the weather VR.
I think the "weather VR" is just confusing as its not reflected anywhere in the OP of the thread. Also is Heliolisk ranked on the weather VR? it has a set up for reservation which I assume means its supposed to be ranked? unrelated but I notice other tiers often have reasoning behind drops and rises while RU does not. I know it would take effort to make reasonings for every drop and rise but I think It'd be nice if this was implemented.

 

[Reece]

Meta has shifted a wee bit since i last posted, so here are some updated thoughts;

B- to B+/A-
This mon has almost no checks since its stabs are amazing pairings that are easily used. The only thing keeping this back is that its speed tier is quite garbo and relies on a free pivot which isn't hard if you pair it with something like Crobat. Being a dark type also has its values since it can easily prey on the plethora of dark types, whilst luring in bulky Fairy-types for 2HKOs. Stated in Luna's Banned Now's earlier post, once Durant and Mienshao left this tier Pangoro has had a great time not being picked off.


A+ to A
Togekiss drop anyone? I feel like this once prominent threat has been left out to dry since Zarude was a thing, its been highly remarked for the most part so only a small drop seems fitting, but it just seems to hard to justify on a team right now. The tier is now prepared for Togekiss' shenanigans through Xurkitree and Raikou being top threats at the moment, as well as the issue of actually being able to get setup since Togekiss' checks now run super effective coverage just for it.


A to A+
Golisopod right now is in such a great position in the meta, being able to bring Spikes and Knock Off support to really annoy the best foggers in the tier, i.e Crobat. Especially with Durants departure this thing has become the primary Bug-type as it easily outclasses the vast majority of the A+ tier giving its defensive qualities walling the likes of Flygon,Cobalion,Reuniclus etc. The fact that this mon is so splashable makes its prevalence quite dangerous due to its great matchup in the tier currently since the popularity into setup and bulky mons that dont want t o catch a Knock Off have slowly accelerated in popularity, whilst its checks such as Diancie and Togekiss slowly becoming less prevalent and dropping off


A- to B+
Stakataka right now is outclassed by other Steels in the tier such as Registeel and Steelix as they can hold their own against common threats. I feel that the mon is out of position right now, deserving a derank in my eyes.


UR to A
Nidoqueen has all the perfect coverage to be a threat within the tier, whilst having acceptable bulk to blanket check Xurkitree and other Fighting types like Toxicroak whilst being a potent breaker for the Steel heavy meta, as well as the ability to nail the flyers of the tier. Shame the only thing holding Nido back is its speed.


B+ to C/C+
Hail in general has tumbled far too much because of the loss of Arctozolt, whilst Nasty Plot sets are far too underwhelming to establish itself as a viable threat. The only thing keeping it C would be access to Freeze Dry being able to take on the rises of Bulky Waters.


A+ to S
Probably not an unpopular opinion, but this thing is running rampant right now as most teams need to have multiple checks in order to actually prevent it from going ham . The only blanket checks are Umbreon and Reuniclus with a bulky Ground - however these can be exploited by little chip which Xurkitree can overwhelm them - whilst having teammates that can break these.

 

[Yourwelcomethanku]

hehe I have posted a lot here... But I really wanted to respond to the Togekiss nomination and why not some others while I'm at it.

Meta has shifted a wee bit since i last posted, so here are some updated thoughts;

A+ to A
Togekiss drop anyone? I feel like this once prominent threat has been left out to dry since Zarude was a thing, its been highly remarked for the most part so only a small drop seems fitting, but it just seems to hard to justify on a team right now. The tier is now prepared for Togekiss' shenanigans through Xurkitree and Raikou being top threats at the moment, as well as the issue of actually being able to get setup since Togekiss' checks now run super effective coverage just for it.

I was going to nominate Togekiss for a drop actually but decided not to and to help make a more convincing argument Ill give my own input. Xurkitree and Raikou have almost if not always been top threats in the metagame and Togekiss managed to do well before. Ever since Zarude left Togekiss hasn't really felt the same, almost everything is capable of thwarting Togekiss when it sets up in some capacity which can obviously make checking it easier if not much easier, there are exceptions of course. Togekiss sets up on non Toxic variants of Noivern and Vaporeon easily. You might be thinking what about Umbreon? Well Umbreon and the aforementioned Vaporeon could just throw up a Wish and switch to Raikou or Xurkitree and probably get momentum right back. Also bulky Steels like Registeel and Steelix can also check it, while less reliable if they are used in conjunction with the Electric-types it can make Togekiss fairly unthreatening. Choice Scarf sets have seen a lot more usage lately but I honestly don't see those as powerful enough to keep Togekiss in A+.

A+ to S
Probably not an unpopular opinion, but this thing is running rampant right now as most teams need to have multiple checks in order to actually prevent it from going ham . The only blanket checks are Umbreon and Reuniclus with a bulky Ground - however these can be exploited by little chip which Xurkitree can overwhelm them - whilst having teammates that can break these.

While Xurkitree is restricting to bulkier teams if you are actually are prepared for it which, you likely should be its effectiveness can be much limited. Cores such as Assault Vest Reuniclus/Roserade + Steelix/Flygon can create uncomfortable guessing games. Xurkitree's speed tier means its also not that hard too out offense and can find itself much less useful in more offensive matchups.

A to A+
Golisopod right now is in such a great position in the meta, being able to bring Spikes and Knock Off support to really annoy the best foggers in the tier, i.e Crobat. Especially with Durants departure this thing has become the primary Bug-type whilst actually being a solid check to Flygon, maintaining a great niche whilst being a very splashable mon for the most part.

I mean this is pretty much what Golisopod has always done, so I find the reasoning rather poor. I'd like to refer you to this helpful post CryoGyro made earlier in this thread.