Resource SS UU Crown Tundra Viability Ranking Thread

[KM]

Something I forgot to mention but just now remembered, why didn't Azelf rise? It's also been seen as an offensive pivot more recently in UUSD and it's been putting in some good results.

azelf was a really close one, with 5 out of 12 voters nominating it for a raise and the other 7 for a stay. as one of the people who voted for it to stay in B+, I just didn't feel it proved itself to be consistent enough to warrant a higher ranking. while it's excellent at fulfilling its role as an offensive pivot on certain teams, the kinds of teams it fits into tend to be quite limited and it tends to be less splashable than other pivots like thundurus, zarude, and (at the time) mienshao. unlike these other pivots, it also has more hard checks and counters with its standard knock turn psychic flamethrower -- while knock can always make progress, it doesn't have quite the same danger factor as something like thundurus-t, and offers much less than the other pivots in terms of defensive utility.

that said, i wouldn't be vehemently opposed to it rising to a-, and if it continues to prove itself as a relevant and strong pick in the upcoming post-shao metagame, I have no doubt we'll see it in a higher ranking.

 

[afuyeas]

Here's one I've been pretty vocal about in the UU discord:

to A (I could even argue for A+)

Seeing Zydog below things like Lycanrock on the VR is honestly a little baffling to me. I view Zygarde-10% as one of the best revenge killers and the single best late-game cleaner in the tier between its terrific, nearly unrivaled speed tier, incredibly spammable and effectively drawback-less stab Thousand Arrows (busted move that shouldn't exist, but that's a discussion for another day) and access to Extreme Speed for revenge killing purposes against the few things that would dare to challenge its speed. It is one of the biggest threats to fragile offensive teams like the volt-turn teams that were spammed and to basically any team that uses Amoonguss as its grass type. Checks to T-Arrows spam are not only limited (namely Tangrowth, Mandibuzz, Tapu Bulu, Zarude, defensive Salamence and physically defensive Swampert) but are also vulnerable to either coverage (Mence dropping to Outrage, Zarude to Skitter Smack) or being overwhelmed by Zydog itself or its teammates over the course of the game. I have found giant hitters like Conkeldurr to be a particularly great partner as they share checks and thus Conkeldurr could trade itself for a full Tangrowth to pave the way for a late game Zydog sweep and in return Zydog is excellent against more offensive teams Conkeldurr isn't so good against, plus double priority is always great.

I have found it to be incredibly difficult to deal with consistently and I often use strategies like using a check like Salamence and having a fairy or Mamoswine to punish it for ever targetting Mence with Outrage and you still need to be careful. I don't buy into its frailty, linearity and somewhat underwhelming power even with choice band as holding it back. 1 because its health doesn't matter until it gets ohkod and 2 because with just one set it is one of the biggest threats in the tier with how many pokemon Thousand Arrows threatens to drop from 80 or are not bulky enough to take at least 3 of them. It should also be noted that unlike other fast but frail late-game threats like Lycanrock it packs some longevity between its resistance to stealth rock and non-reliance on an item with recoil. Choice Band Zygarde-10% is a very simple pokemon but with this one set I believe it to be one of the tier's most defining offensive threats and it should have a rank that reflects that.

 

[scorbunnys]

Hey guys, so I decided to join to the not so old personal Viability Rankings trend cuz why not since I think the VR kind of needs a revamp (not saying the update was bad or anything, but I'm aware that the slate was made in like w4/5 of Snake in Shao meta and things have changed quite a bit since then).
Also, I probably should post this on Personal UU Viability Rankings Thread, but since nobody would read that if I do it that way, I prefer to post it here.
A last thing I'd like to clarify is, I won't rank any URed mon that hasn't got used in UUSD and the UR mons I'm putting here has got usage in Snake.
s/o avg for tier maker and UU server for helping on my VR :3

S Rank

S Rank is only Amoonguss atm imo as I've found this mon to be the most consistent Defensive Pokemon in the metagame due to Regenerator + Synthesis + Spore/Stun Spore combo giving it a mega nasty longevity while also not being passive at all, since we live on a tier where Spore switchins are lacking (you can use Stun Spore as a replacement if you find Sleep Clause to be too annoying) while also checks/counters mons such as Primarina, Keldeo (not rly relevant but worth mentioning imo), Zarude, non-ZH Tapu Bulu, Azumarill (you can check BD if you're itemless btw), Thundurus-T and non-SubToxic/Choice Specs Aegislash in one slot plus you also completely invalidate Tangrowth. Also, I think Sludge Bomb poisons are overlooked since they are really annoying vs fat teams, so deserves to be S 100%.

S- Rank

Aegislash Mixed sets have been seeing a resurgence lately since the tier hates Ghost-Steel/Fighting coverage as a whole, especially since it appreciates stuff such as Mandibuzz dropping and Zarude dropping a little bit (I mean it's really good and ofc still A+ but I think it has dropped a little little bit) while it also likes to see some Fat Teams trending since it sort of eats them alive, making it S- worth in my point of view.

Thundurus-Therian is a really customisable threat able to hit through most of it's checks thanks to it's colorful movepool and good speed, even though it still dislikes Shao gone since it was it's best partner in-crime, plus it going was also a huge improvement for Pokemon such as Chansey, Amoonguss and Swampert and while you can break through them thanks to coverage, it often finds itself in a position where it has to drop something, so it also has a noticeable 4MSS, but it's definitely a top tier threat worth of S- (Nasty Plot sets are also quite annoying to face btw since it has a not bad Speed Tier plus it also kind of alleviates the 4MSS problem since +2 Focus Blast can nuke most of it's answers after some chip).

A+ Rank

Celesteela is probably a quite controversial one, but I've found it to be quite reliable lately, as it matches quite well against more Offensive Structures while also having pmuch the same utility than Skarmory (ofc you lack Spikes and Roost but in exchange it matches better against stuff such as Mence, Prim, Azelf, Roserade and Aegi while also not being passive at all). Also, this mon has more sets such as Meteor Beam + Autotomize (quite useful in HO since it beats Mence, Exca and Aegi while also having Air Slash to flinch stuff), Assault Vest has seen usage in UUSD where it has shown to be actually threatening to switch into thanks to it's coverage and even SubSeed has seen usage (I mean that's innovation...I guess :''D), but yeah being a non-passive Skarmory able to check SpD mons while also retaining Physical Bulk is honestly worth of A+ (s/o Lily because she enlightened me).

Excadrill could drop to A honestly but I've found SD Spin sets to be rather threatening against a good portion of the meta, since +2 Atk/+1 Speed Excadrill EQ can hit through most of the meta while also outspeeding a bunch of non-Scarfed mons (fun fact: one of the two Scarf Users is Exca fodder) while also having Rock Slide (I mean, you don't need Iron Head for anything outside Bulu, who can get flinched by Rock Slide anyways) to beat most of it's checks via flinches (Mence also pmuch dies to +1 Rock Slide after some chip).

Primarina is a quite good BO staple due to it's good bulk allowing it to be a solid answer to relevant threats such as Moltres-Galar, Salamence, Excadrill, Hydreigon, Keldeo and Moltres while also being actually hard to switch into thanks to it's Scald + Moonblast combo, though use SubCM since it can clean up teams after checks are gone.

It's just me or I'm surprised that Mence didn't rise? This mon is a great answer to Zarude, Conkeldurr and even Excadrill to a lesser extent while also being a strong wallbreaker thanks to Hurricane actually chunking fairies and Flamethrower + Draco Meteor being strong, so yeah please use this more.

Slowking is a kinda weird case (would've put it lower but alkazoth convinced me to put this high) but I think it is underappreciated, since this mon glues so much stuff such as Primarina, Azelf, Keldeo, Moltres, Nihilego, Excadrill and even Conkeldurr if Slowking runs Colbur while also offering FuturePort support, which is quite good since it allows to offensive threats to take down most of its checks (I could see stuff such as Conkeldurr or Tapu Bulu to be good at this, since they don't let Dark-Types in for free either). Colbur Berry Psychic is also good as it checks Conkeldurr like I said before while still checking what it wants to & having better odds against other stuff such as GMolt (you don't check it but at least it can take a Fiery Wrath better and pivot out).

Swampert is up there since it has skyrocketed in usage in UUSD due to it's solid utility in form to Flip Turn, Stealth Rocks, Volt Switch Immunity and it's not passive either, since YawnTurn is pmuch the definitive momentum grabber, though it lacks recovery but that can be patched up with a Wish User (hard to fit sometimes but can be rewarding in fatter teams) or Tapu Bulu.

Honestly I shouldn't be explaining Zarude but it's a really good pivot since it has a solid Speed Tier (105 is good since you outspeed stuff such as Hydreigon, Excadrill, Thundurus-Therian and Nihilego) while also having a solid double STAB which allows it to be decently threatening to switch into for some teams (since it also clicks U-turn into the Moonger like no tomorrow). It's access to Jungle Healing is cool af too since it allows it to have a solid longevity while also not being crippled hopelessly by status.

A Rank

Azumarill has dropped off a little lately, since threats such as Mienshao and Kommo-O are not here anymore, but I still think it's A since Knock Off + Aqua Jet + Primarina Typing allows it to have a solid MU against Offense while also not being dead weight against more defensive structures, since it has a quite solid raw power, giving it a solid enough niche ATM.

Chansey has risen lately since Mienshao is not here anymore, so yeah blob, go for a drink to celebrate it's not there anymore (but ye this pink blob has lots of utility since it walls most SpA mons aside from Keldeo and it learns Teleport in order to get wallbreakers for free, plus it's also an staple in fat since it learns stuff Heal Bell, Stealth Rock and Wish while also still being able to do blob things).

Mamoswine has finally risen since people no longer use Life Orb and now we realized that Never-Melt Ice is the actual set, since it hits hard af but doesn't take recoil everytime it hits (also it has Ice Shard, so it easily revenges stuff such as Hydreigon, GMolt and even Zarude after chip).

Moltres has a low-key unwallable combo in form to Flamethrower + Hurricane allowing it to break through most checks while also having U-turn to pivot out stuff such as Chansey, though don't get Knock Off.

Moltres-Galar RestTalk is still actually good since it abuses Moonger quite well plus if you run Hurricane + Fiery Wrath you don't give Fairies a free entry (NP RestTalk might also be ok but never tried it since like Buzzwole meta or so).

Zygarde-10% is a mon that has gotten discussed a lot lately, since with most of its resists dropping off (Tapu Bulu has been doing a comeback lately but Amoonguss and Zarude still dominate the meta), it can freely spam TArrows like no one plus it also has a really good Speed Tier, allowing it to outspeed mons such as Nihilego and Zarude (this dog abuses Zarude teams btw since you can kill Zarude w Skitter Smack/Superpower), so yeah it should rise def.

A- Rank

Azelf has risen quite a lot lately in UUWC, as this mon is a phenomenal pivot thanks to it's solid Speed Tier and coverage while also being a decent NP user in HO since it pmuch has no walls aside from Umbreon, Hydreigon and Mandibuzz (Fire Blast nukes Aegi and Energy Ball shits on Swampert, though you can try to fit Dazzling Gleam to beat Hydreigon). Refer to this great post for more information about why is Azelf rising since I think this post can explain better why Azelf is good than I ever could do (this post also further explains why Swampert is good among others, so please read it).

Hydreigon is a weird case, since while it has dropped to A- in my VR, I think it has greatly benefited from the Shao ban as now it's more free to run more offensive sets such as LO U-turn + Roost + STABs, Choice Scarf, Choice Specs (set that can actually smash any team w/o Prim, Chansey or the niche Sylveon or even Nasty Plot, set that I think is heavily underrated since if it gets the chance to boost, it can sweep unprepared teams. A notable drop here is Jirachi one, mon which I honestly dropped since I felt like A would be crowded af otherwise, but it's Drill food atm and Celesteela rising doesn't do any favors to it, so it's high A- to me (or bottom A idm).

While Mandibuzz hasn't moved from it's current rank in my VR, it did in the recent update, so I'll briefly talk about it (idk the council reasoning exactly since I'm just a normal rabbit user but I'll just talk about what I think about it. So I believe Mandibuzz has dropped off a subrank since it's quite easy to cripple by just Knocking Off it's boots or via status, making it less reliable and struggles against stuff more than it would like, since it also has the passivity problem, especially since you won't always fit Knock Off (which imo heavily helps to alleviate this issue) as you want Foul Play, Brave Bird and U-turn too, but it's still a goat mon since it checks Azelf and BD Azu if running Speed, so honestly if it rises again to A I wouldn't be surprised.

Then Skarmory hates VoltTurn prominence and it's getting competition from Celesteela (if you asked me about Skarm and Celesteela two weeks ago I'd probably said that Steela was A- and Skarm A+ ngl, just a funny thing) while also having it's own issues in this offensive meta, such as being passive as hell or having a quite bad 4MSS since it wants Toxic, Whirlwind, Spikes, Brave Bird, Roost and even Defog, which is honestly quite bad in this meta, but it's still a really solid mon in fat so it's still definitely above B ranks (B+ wouldn't be out of place at all tbh tho).

Tangrowth has been falling off since Amoonguss has been overtaking it as a Bulky Regenerator Grass-Type due to it being harder to switch into while it's also better vs stuff such as Primarina and other grasses such as Tapu Bulu and Roserade have been rising quite a bit lately, making this mon harder to fit than before and thus it deserves to drop a subrank imo.

Last but not least, Tentacruel has been making waves lately and I think it's interesting to see whether if it stays like it is atm or will rise, as with Shao gone, it can be easier to fit than before since it was a really shaky poison due to it being unable to switch into Mienshao and now with stuff such as Bulu being easy to slap on a team, Tentacruel really loves this since it fits quite well into Bulu teams, indirectly benefitting it.

B+ Rank

Krookodile has been outclassed by Excadrill lately (mon who also has seen a slight downtick), who has more utility in form to Steel Typing, Mold Breaker EQ and Spin while also being better offensively thanks to SD, but Krook is still kinda underrated imo, as I believe Utility sets still have a place despite of being worse than Drill mostly, since Knock + Taunt is really appreciated for some teams and Intimidate is still quite nice, as it makes it actually ok against stuff such as Zydog.

A mon who has caught my attention recently is Lycanroc-Dusk, since yeah I dropped it a subrank but ngl it was awkward af to rank, since it's a wallbreaker with 0 defensive utility but now with Shao gone, I'm not sure as it can perfectly fit in A-, since it's raw power is really good and PFangs access allows it to abuse the Amoong trend and Accelerock + Close Combat + Crunch hits everything else (well, I'm kind of exaggerating since it has troubles breaking through some stuff such as Colbur King and Primarina, but it can murder through fatter structures if checks are chipped), so I'm not sure and I'd like more discussion about that.

I've ranked both Rotoms in B+ since I think they're still reliable at pivoting and they can annoy unprepared teams (Rotom-Wash is especially harder to pivot around since with teams starting to rely on Pert as they ground, making it harder to deal with, though Rotom-H is still kinda underrated as it's decently annoying against Sun and can check Mamo).

Slowbro-Galar has dropped a subrank since now is harder to justify over Slowking/Amoonguss (or both together), as it used to be one of the most reliable Shao checks, though it's still ok as CM sets are hard to take down and Sludge Bomb + Scald can outlast some of it's answers, but it definitely has dropped quite a bit.

B Rank

This is the low end of the "solid niche" mons, as everything below tends to either be outclassed, have crippling flaws that doesn't allow them to perform a solid enough niche or some weird combination of both. Ok so I figured out that Diggersby, Entei and Crawdaunt needed to be here, since they are damn strong wallbreakers able to break thru many fat teams while also having an ok niche against Offense with Aqua Jet / Quick Attack / OK Speed Tier or ESpeed, but they still have their issues (Entei is weak to SR and can't break through stuff such as Bulky Waters & Crawdaunt and Diggersby can't switch in into anything plus they are also kinda slow).

Hatterene is a cool Healing Wish user for Sun teams & Offensive oriented ones in general, as it has a good bulk, a good offensive power and can check some mons such as Mence & ZyDog while also abusing Spikes users such as Skarmory, though it has dropped a subrank (from B+ to B) since it's walled by common mons such as Celesteela & Chansey and it's not the easiest to slap into a team.

Reuniclus CM is still an ok wincon with Magic Guard and Focus Blast allows it to blast Steel- and Dark-types and Assault Vest can stomach hits from mons such as Primarina & Mence while also having Knock Off in order to worn down checks and Future Sight can break through many mons such as Nihilego or Amoonguss.

Necrozma is okay since it's still an HO staple but sucks outside it (though Meteor Beam is heat against Mandibuzz and DD is an actually ok set since it cleans pwell if checks are weakened).

Noivern is underrated and should be used more, since it's a phenomenal pivot able to revenge kill stuff such as Keldeo and Thund-T with good coverage as well (I'd probably like to use Hurricane Flame Draco Roost w/o U-turn more tho).

Also ranked here some niche stuff such as Queen and Rhyperior who are kinda outclassed but they're still damn good SR users able to keep up rocks w ease while also doing their own things (Rhyperior is a good check to stuff such as Tornadus & non-GK ThundT that also 1v1s basically all PhsyAtk mons aside from like Zarude but that can get lured by Megahorn, whereas Queen is a Nidoking with more bulk, so it's much better against stuff such as Tapu Bulu & Cobalion).

Toxtricity is honestly underrated as hell and I'm not sure why people is so low on it (I've saw on discord server people ranking it at C+?), like sure it's a Toxtricity so it has a shitload of flaws such as being ass against fast teams since it's slow and unlike other wallbreakers it has no way to alleviate that (example: bulk or prio) unless it uses Shift Gear, but Boomburst is still fucking strong and Overdrive helps a ton against Aegislash, Nihilego & Celesteela, plus Shift Gear Drain Punch gives it an actual good Drill MU (not sure if it KOes from full tbh but it's easy to chip anyways) while still having Overdrive + Boomburst, so yah this mon is still B.

Ranked here Sun as well since Venu under Sun has like few checks outside from things such as AV Glowbro, Heattom or Tenta (and from what I've tested vs myself, Tenta actually gets KOed by +4 Weather Ball if it's at like 65, something not too hard to achieve since Tentacruel has no recovery), making it quite strong overall. Not to mention Torkoal is actually underrated as a mon itself, as it checks threats such as Zarude, Tapu Bulu & Entei while also being annoying to switch into w Lava Plume burns + it has cool utility in form to Rapid Spin (it also enables shit such as Darmanitan & Entei as well btw), though ofc they both are relegated to Sun.

Umbreon is a Stall Staple since it glues together mons such as Azelf, Excadrill, Gyara, Mence, ZyDog and Mamoswine while also offering Wish Support and being kinda hard to switch into if running Toxic (it has switch ins but can be painful against some teams), but Bell is nb in Stall (outside Stall, Umb Bell is garbo tho).

B- Rank

This rank was honestly quite hard to do, as most of the things here are quite niche and/or have a shitload of flaws, but I've decided to rank Chandy and Darm at B- since they both have their places as strong Fire-Types (Darm in Sun and Chandy w ToxTect, though Specs in Sun should be explored imo) able to break through teams in their own with obvious shortcomings.

Diancie is a quite solid Thundurus-T, Mence and Tornadus while also is a cool SR user with Diamond Storm + BP to cteam HO, but it feels kinda inconsistent sometimes due to it's lack of recovery and Primarina is often better, but Diancie is still a cool pick in Bulu teams.

Registeel has seen usage in UUWC thanks to their Amnesia + Iron Defense (cheesy but actually cool since it's annoying for most teams w/o AmoongKing and/or a Ghost-Type + Regen user) and Stealth Rock sets (TW support, non-Ground Rocker so u can slap on stuff such as Zydog alongside it n u check Nihi, Mence and Zarude), so yeah it's definitely worth a rank imo.

Sylveon is worse than Primarina in most cases, but checking Thundurus-T and Zarude better than Prim while also having Wish support and still retaining the ability to check some of the stuff that Prim checks such as Drei and Mence (prolly even better than Prim does since Prim is forced to Rest, whereas Sylv isn't) is something I appreciate a ton.

Vanilluxe is a wallbreaker who has also popped up from nowhere in UUWC since Blizzard + Freeze-Dry is damn hard to wall and Snow Warning allows it to chip Steel-Types (it's main niche imo) while also having Taunt to annoy defensive mons such as Slowking, Skarmory or even Celesteela (a well-timed Taunt can cripple it), so it deserves to be B- imo.

C+ Rank

Articuno is still a good fringe option for Stall teams, since it checks mons such as Gyarados & Mence while also offering Bell & Defog utility.

Ditto has seen usage lately since it stops Setup Sweepers quite well and can also deal with fat mons such as Skarmory due to it's infinite PP, though it's still relegated to fat, so it only rises a subrank to me.

Gardevoir checks Volt Switch Pivot (non U-turn) / Nasty Plot Thundurus-T (without Sludge Bomb ofc) thanks to Trace while also having Knock + Mystical Fire + Dual STAB so it's genuinely hard to switch into.

Heracross is honestly worse Conkeldurr 90% of the times but it's here since it's faster than it and it doesn't rely in Mach Punch to beat Offense, which is huge against things such as Bulu & Aegi (it's also faster than Skarmory unlike Conk, who gets outsped and rkilled by Speed EVs + Brave Bird sets).

Dropped off Seismitoad two subranks since Swampert is much better outside from fatter teams that doesn't need a pivoting move and that needs Knock Off in order to take away items from stuff such as Amoonguss or Slowking, but it's still not good enough for B and should drop imo.

Weezing-Galar is another mon that has fallen quite a bit, as Conk has dropped quite a bit and Shao is not a thing anymore, so it's not like that mandatory in Stall anymore, though Corrosive Gas + Pain Split is something I value a fair amount, plus it checks some stuff such as Zarude and DD Mence.

C Rank

Cresselia is a TR staple thanks to Lunar Dance and it's bulk allowing it to check stuff such as Exca & ZyDog (it also has some non-TR sets but I honestly haven't seen/tried them).
Crobat is honestly a little underrated in my point of view, since it's actually a cool turbo fast pivot able to stomach hits from Zarude, Roserade and non-Rock Slide Drill (it's still niche but honestly it fits here, esp since I'm quite inclusive when I rate stuff).

Durant's niche has been explained before by Celebiii (aka the pain is excruciating) and they honestly made quite good points about it, so I don't think I have anything to add but yeah, deserves to be C (also it's an ant).

Froslass is still an ok Spikes lead with Icy Wind and Taunt with spinblock capabilities (which is helpful af against Drill), though ofc it doesn't work outside from HO.

Rain is honestly still threatening imo, as it allows to stuff such as Tangrowth to increase their defensive capabilities against stuff such as Darmanitan or Entei (Amoonguss Eject Button is quite interesting as well since it's hella hard to break through in Rain, here's a team I'm enjoying, though u can ask Celebiii for a Rain team as they have a quite cool one) while also enabling mons such as Weather Ball Thund-T or Hurricane Mence.

Magneton Sand is still quite ok since Magneton allows Drill/Mence to sweep, since Magnet Pull + Thunderbolt allows it to kill Skarmory, though vs Celesteela you need some backup (it has seen usage in UUSD by Punny btw and it shown to be quite threatening).

TR mons such as AloWak and P2 are also there since it's honestly quite threatening (it has shown to be threatening in early UUSD and ngl I think it still works, since AloWak is quite hard to wall) and PZ is here too (Mystras Leoxses made a good post about it and ngl I believe it should be C, it's kinda old sure but I think Mystras post + Shao departure explains why is PZ a legit choice atm) and Salazzle is here since it's a quite strong wincon able to outspeed many stuff such as Boots Zarude while also breaking through many common shit such as Aegislash and Celesteela, but refer to Aqua Jet post if you need a good explanation.

Ranked other niche stuff such as Ribombee since Webs is still viable and it offers U-turn support for those teams + I also ranked Regidrago since it's actually a quite strong wallbreaker if no fairies, here's a little post about it from pokemonisfun.

Scolipede is also a strong wincon with SD + Speed Boost allowing it to tear apart many defensive teams (and offense also dislikes it since if it boosts it's Speed, it can revenge kill shit such as Azelf or Scarf Zarude). Mantine could be UR but Defog + Flying-type gives it some sort of niche over Slowking since it has a better MU against mons such as Power Whip Gyarados, plus Haze allows it to improve it's HO MU, so yeah deserves to be C.

Ok so I might regret doing this since I took days to do this, but I hope you liked this and hmu if you have any doubt about my personal VR and/or you wanna talk about it, cya and hope you had a great new year (and christmas too) .

Edit: Separated the paragraphs.

 

[Mystras]

B to B+
I find Rotom-H underrated right now honestly and think it was voted rather harshly on, Fire is a pretty good typing to have with there being no shortage of Grass-type usage and with rising usage of Pokemon like Cobalion. Whereas Rotom-W needs outside support to deal with said Grass-types and even Thundurus-T sometimes using a weaker STAB to get around them easier, Rotom-H can just click Overheat which is more accurate than Hydro Pump and Focus Blast against drill switchins. It's got Toxic to hinder Pert, usual volt switch shenanigans can still annoying to even mons that don't even mind Rotom itself like Nihilego.

B to UR
As someone who played stall throughout the entire suspect test for Shao, I can say safely that I do not like this mon. There are other ways of handling Pokemon like Azumarill and Conk that doesn't leave yourself as open to everything else the way gweezing did (and even if Shao wasn't banned, I'd still put it lower on the vr). Pain Split is too unreliable and Rest leaves Gweezing too vulnerable even with heal bell support and it was a very clunky defogger to use at times even for stall standards.

 

[Aqua Jet]

I fully support Mystras' nomination of Rotom-Heat to the B+ rank. In addition to all of the points he had made, the usage stats indicate to us that high ladder players prefer to use Pokémon such as Amoonguss, Aegislash, and Jirachi, all of which Rotom-Heat can easily Overheat on, then proceed to Volt Switch out. In addition, four of the top six most-used Pokémon according to the usage stats are weak to Fire, cementing its place as one of the best offensive typings in SS UU right now.
However, I disagree with ranking Weezing-Galar to UR. I agree that it should be lower, especially as metagame trends do not necessarily favor Weezing-Galar, especially since half of the Pokémont in the top six are Steel-types. I believe that UR should be reserved for Pokémon that are unviable (think: Pikachu), those that are outclassed by something else in the tier (think: Sigilyph being outclassed by Azelf), those that haven't any prominent tournament usage (think: Whimsicott) and for those that are especially difficult to fit on teams (think: Sneasel). For these reasons, I propose that instead of dropping it to UR we drop it to B- or C+.

UR -> C+

Set

Wild Wild Love (Tauros) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Body Slam
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
- Fire Blast

What does it do?
Sporting an amazing ability in Sheer Force, blistering speed, and a decent movepool, I think Tarous has proven itself to be viable enough in the UU metagame post-shifts to be ranked. Tauros runs Body Slam as a strong Sheer Force boosted STAB move capable of 2HKOing many foes such as Stealth Rock Kommo-o, Mienshao, and Tapu Bulu. Close Combat is used as a means of threatening the omnipresent Excadrill, with Tauros always winning the 1v1 against any form of Excadrill. Close Combat can also be used to threaten foes like Chansey, and ones that resist Body Press such as Lycanroc-Dusk. Throat Chop is used as coverage against Ghost-types that may be immune to the last two moves such as Aegislash and Chandelure. It also offers coverage against Psychic-type Pokémon in the tier such as Jirachi and Slowking, being able to 2HKO Defensive variants of both assuming Slowking isn't holding a Colbur Berry. Lastly, Fire Blast allows Tauros to hit Skarmory super effectively, 2HKOing the pesky bird. Some other options on Tauros include running Iron Head in order to prevent Calm Mind Hatterene from switching into Tauros, but this option is generally outclassed by just pairing Tauros with a Steel-type as by running Iron Head Tauros is forgoing an important coverage move.
Why is it good?
Here are just a few prominent Pokémon Tauros is able to beat:

PokémonCalculationNotes252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 429-507 (118.8 - 140.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 147-174 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 309-367 (95 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tauros: 190-225 (65.2 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 185-218 (57 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recoveryIt is imperative that Tauros uses Fire Blast when Aegislash uses King's Shield so Tauros' attack is not lowered.252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 183-216 (42.3 - 50%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tauros: 127-150 (43.6 - 51.5%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO / 252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 216-255 (66.8 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 434-512 (149.1 - 175.9%) -- guaranteed OHKOKeldeo / Keldeo-Resolute must be switching in.252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 164-192 (56.3 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
152 Atk Kommo-o Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 338-398 (116.1 - 136.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
~~~
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Body Slam vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kommo-o: 164-192 (56.3 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kommo-o Clanging Scales vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Tauros: 223-264 (76.6 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKOStealth Rock Kommo-o must be switching in.​

What are its drawbacks?
As the frail Normal-type that it is, running Tauros as your physical wallbreaker makes your team extremely weak to Conkelldur's Mach Punch. This can be sidestepped however by running teammates that are able to deal with Conkeldurr before Tauros comes in such as Moltres and Brave Bird Skarmory. Conkeldurr cannot switch in on Tauros however, as Body Slam can OHKO it while Mach Punch fails to OHKO Tauros without Stealth Rock being up.

I would also like to re-nominate Tauros for C+. The large question that obviously comes to mind is "What has changed since the last tmie you nominated Tauros? The answer to that is simple: the metagame has become significantly slower since the banning of Mienshao, and Tauros is now able to defeat many top Pokémon such as Aegislash, Amoonguss, and Thundurus-Incarnate.

 

[Y1theking100]

Here's one I've been pretty vocal about in the UU discord:

View attachment 394450 to A (I could even argue for A+)

Seeing Zydog below things like Lycanrock on the VR is honestly a little baffling to me. I view Zygarde-10% as one of the best revenge killers and the single best late-game cleaner in the tier between its terrific, nearly unrivaled speed tier, incredibly spammable and effectively drawback-less stab Thousand Arrows (busted move that shouldn't exist, but that's a discussion for another day) and access to Extreme Speed for revenge killing purposes against the few things that would dare to challenge its speed. It is one of the biggest threats to fragile offensive teams like the volt-turn teams that were spammed and to basically any team that uses Amoonguss as its grass type. Checks to T-Arrows spam are not only limited (namely Tangrowth, Mandibuzz, Tapu Bulu, Zarude, defensive Salamence and physically defensive Swampert) but are also vulnerable to either coverage (Mence dropping to Outrage, Zarude to Skitter Smack) or being overwhelmed by Zydog itself or its teammates over the course of the game. I have found giant hitters like Conkeldurr to be a particularly great partner as they share checks and thus Conkeldurr could trade itself for a full Tangrowth to pave the way for a late game Zydog sweep and in return Zydog is excellent against more offensive teams Conkeldurr isn't so good against, plus double priority is always great.

I have found it to be incredibly difficult to deal with consistently and I often use strategies like using a check like Salamence and having a fairy or Mamoswine to punish it for ever targetting Mence with Outrage and you still need to be careful. I don't buy into its frailty, linearity and somewhat underwhelming power even with choice band as holding it back. 1 because its health doesn't matter until it gets ohkod and 2 because with just one set it is one of the biggest threats in the tier with how many pokemon Thousand Arrows threatens to drop from 80 or are not bulky enough to take at least 3 of them. It should also be noted that unlike other fast but frail late-game threats like Lycanrock it packs some longevity between its resistance to stealth rock and non-reliance on an item with recoil. Choice Band Zygarde-10% is a very simple pokemon but with this one set I believe it to be one of the tier's most defining offensive threats and it should have a rank that reflects that.

I totally agree with this and would even say that it is good enough for S because it is an excellent Breaker with some tech options that can kill its checks and counter. The main switch in to Zydog are grass types like Tangrowth, Amoonguss, Bulu, Zarude, Golisopod and Phy.def Mandibuzz. But each one of these mons are either ohko or 2hko by coverage or get crippled by toxic. Amoonguss is 2hko by Outrage, Mandi and Tangrowth get toxic, Golisopod is only a check since it can get worn down and has no recovery, and Zarude and Bulu die to tech options like Sludge Wave and Skitter Smack.

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Outrage vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 228-268 (52.7 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 190-225 (43.9 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock While Thousand Arrows is always better on Zydog just having this option of 2hko Amoonguss with rocks without taking Rocky Helmet.

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 190-225 (43.9 - 52%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery So if Amoonguss is black Sludge over helmet this is still a roll in your favor

0 SpA Life Orb Zygarde-10% Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Bulu: 250-296 (88.9 - 105.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Skitter Smack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zarude: 368-436 (104.8 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 192-226 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 32.4% chance to 2HKO This has to be fully defensive Mandibuzz to take this and there is the possibility of Stone Edge crit.

I believe Zydog is very good right now with most of the top tier mons like Aegislash and Thundy not wanting to ever come in on it. And that once it comes it is very hard to switch into without there being a risk.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

I totally agree with this and would even say that it is good enough for S because it is an excellent Breaker with some tech options that can kill its checks and counter. The main switch in to Zydog are grass types like Tangrowth, Amoonguss, Bulu, Zarude, Golisopod and Phy.def Mandibuzz. But each one of these mons are either ohko or 2hko by coverage or get crippled by toxic. Amoonguss is 2hko by Outrage, Mandi and Tangrowth get toxic, Golisopod is only a check since it can get worn down and has no recovery, and Zarude and Bulu die to tech options like Sludge Wave and Skitter Smack.

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Outrage vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 228-268 (52.7 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 190-225 (43.9 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock While Thousand Arrows is always better on Zydog just having this option of 2hko Amoonguss with rocks without taking Rocky Helmet.

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 190-225 (43.9 - 52%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery So if Amoonguss is black Sludge over helmet this is still a roll in your favor

0 SpA Life Orb Zygarde-10% Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Bulu: 250-296 (88.9 - 105.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Skitter Smack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zarude: 368-436 (104.8 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 192-226 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 32.4% chance to 2HKO This has to be fully defensive Mandibuzz to take this and there is the possibility of Stone Edge crit.

I believe Zydog is very good right now with most of the top tier mons like Aegislash and Thundy not wanting to ever come in on it. And that once it comes it is very hard to switch into without there being a risk.

Thing is it is very prediction reliant on top of having non-existant bulk. It needs pretty good support to be able to even come in consistently and you need ways to muscle past phys. def tang, and other checks like amoonguss, primarina, salamence, swampert, tapu bulu, zarude, etc. It litterally is given no breathing room to switch in and saying it is S tier is a bit of an overexaggerating as it does require team support to function well. It fits fine in A- as needing team support, being inconsistent sometimes with the prediction, and just being checked by half the tier that can threaten it in return is not a great sight, and the inability to ohko most of the tier hurts it as its non existant bulk hinders it from making trades well. Its good for its own reasons like basically having no "counters" since as long as you can play it correctly you can play well.. its just not S tier defining like thundy-t and aegi

 

[Y1theking100]

Thing is it is very prediction reliant on top of having non-existant bulk. It needs pretty good support to be able to even come in consistently and you need ways to muscle past phys. def tang, and other checks like amoonguss, primarina, salamence, swampert, tapu bulu, zarude, etc. It litterally is given no breathing room to switch in and saying it is S tier is a bit of an overexaggerating as it does require team support to function well. It fits fine in A- as needing team support, being inconsistent sometimes with the prediction, and just being checked by half the tier that can threaten it in return is not a great sight, and the inability to ohko most of the tier hurts it as its non existant bulk hinders it from making trades well. Its good for its own reasons like basically having no "counters" since as long as you can play it correctly you can play well.. its just not S tier defining like thundy-t and aegi

But all of the checks you named can't switch into Zydog with risking Zydog ohkoing them or 2hkoing them on the swap. Salamence can't take Outrage, Amoonguss gets to 2hko and can't kill it back, Zarude as I said can be dealt with Skitter Smack which is an option if you want Zydog to deal with Zarude, Bulu dies to Sludge Wave if you want Zydog to get rid of it, Swampert is 2hko by Outrage and can't kill it back, Primarina is 2hko by Thousand Arrows and with so many pivots like Volt Switch Thundy, Tport Chansey/Slowking, Uturn Rachi, Azelf and etc. It gives Zydog multiple chance to come in and either kill or 2hko something. Your right that it has terrible bulk but it doesn't need to as it will either click a button against teams that can't deal with it or click toxic on mons that can deal with it like Tangrowth which is the only reliable "counter" to Zydog.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

But all of the checks you named can't switch into Zydog with risking Zydog ohkoing them or 2hkoing them on the swap. Salamence can't take Outrage, Amoonguss gets to 2hko and can't kill it back, Zarude as I said can be dealt with Skitter Smack which is an option if you want Zydog to deal with Zarude, Bulu dies to Sludge Wave if you want Zydog to get rid of it, Swampert is 2hko by Outrage and can't kill it back, Primarina is 2hko by Thousand Arrows and with so many pivots like Volt Switch Thundy, Tport Chansey/Slowking, Uturn Rachi, Azelf and etc. It gives Zydog multiple chance to come in and either kill or 2hko something. Your right that it has terrible bulk but it doesn't need to as it will either click a button against teams that can't deal with it or click toxic on mons that can deal with it like Tangrowth which is the only reliable "counter" to Zydog.

@ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Toxic
- Skitter Smack
- Sludge wave
- Superpower
- Earthquake

You know zygarde-10% has like... 4 moves not 20. It is running toxic 90% of the time as crippling tang is its biggest target. I was showing these examples as zygarde-10% lack of ohko potential and means it often has to 2hko it. You mentionted pert cant deal with it but it can toxic it and make sure zygarde-10% turns are limited especially if it wants to stay in, primarina can tank a hit, sludge wave is non existant and bulu can often check or counter it with cleric support, amoonguss gets 2hko'ed but it can just switch out on the outrage oof the momentum loss as you get a turn 3 outrage against celesteela, skarmory, or even cobalion.

Yes you can pivot zygarde-10% in but that is why it needs team support and does not warrant S tier at all, it cannot be slapped on most teams and you need to support it greatly in order to achieve success. Most teams can afford to trade against it and go 1 for 1 pokemon and just revenge zygarde-10%. It is also very hazard vulnurable as it often needs to switch out after 1 move racking up that chip damage meaning that swampert who couldnt finish it off will either make it unable to do much or just kill it with hazard damage

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

-> C

This is so inconsistent I can probably win more coin tosses than have games where suicune plays well. Every game has a grass type pretty much, every game also has hazards and most pokemon can pressure it via strong moves forcing it to rest and rest suicune meaning it is a sitting duck for pokemon such as tapu bulu, thundy-t, conkeldurr, and for phazing due to it relying on a 1/3 chance to pull an attacking move. Its not like SM or ORAS where you HAD to have ways to play around it. You are already given ample amount of ways to play around it meaning it does not have the potential 6-0.

For example the sample teams have ample ways to deal with suicune such as offensive pressure, hazards, or crippling it with trick or neutering its set up with haze. It just does not accomplish much at all in any game and primarina is a much more reliable CM sweeper. It is also dead weight vs any zarude team

-> A-

These pokemon are just insanely passive with pretty much no ways of dealing with thundy-t and require more support as getting a wrong predict on a protect, or roosting off in front of thundy just gives it a free switch which is pretty bad for such an offensive pokemon. These pokemon require more support to function on a team as thundy-t counterplay needs to be more than "just do not let it in" as it gets plenty of opportunities especially on skarmory who needs to heal a lot and tries to set up spikes. While celesteela while a bit tougher is still relatively easy as heavy slam does not ohko it, and switching in on protect sometimes can really hand you so much momentum.

-> B+

Thank god this is not DLC 1 or early DLC 2 because now this thing really has competition in terms of slowking for a sp. def set and CM sets are also outdone by slowking.. Counterplay is everywhere with skarmory and roserade wearing it down with hazards, plenty of ground, dark, and in general powerful special attacks to completely give it no breathing room for CM sets, assault vest gets overwhelmed and unlike slowking cannot gain momentum via teleport or heal via slack off and has to rely on regenerator which results get diminished via hazards and repeatedly attacking it. I just do not think it is as good as it was especially how common most powerful pokemon are such as aegislash, hydreigon, thundurus-t, zygarde-10%, zarude, mamoswine, and keldeo.

-> A

Bulu really takes advantage of new pokemon in the tier such as swampert, slowking, zarude, zygarde-10%, thundy-t, krookodile, and certain hydreigon, and soft checks many other water types such as prim, azu, keldeo, gyarados, diggersby, and azelf. Main advantages it has over amoonguss and tangrowth is that unlike them it outspeeds pokemon that can take advantage of amoong and tang such prim, azu, and conk which bulu outspeeds and threatens them preventing setup. Bulu also has 2 good sets which are SD 3 attacks, and defensive which both see a lot more usage due to swampert, primarina, slowking and zarude usage being high. SD bulu takes advantage of the many waters that are pretty passive and cannot do much in return besides risk taking a bunch of damage for 30% burns. Defensive bulu takes advantage of the meta and provides support for its teammates such as tenta, pert, conk, aegi, and umbreon.

 

[RantoxTG93]

Hey there. I would like to nominate Charizard to C. After experimenting, with sun I found its power in the sun absurd. Plus sun is now on the up. Now it needs hazard control for sure to fulfil its potential but it has very few switch ins in the sun outside of Chansey and I think Nihilego. Scorching sands can take out Nihilego and Chanderlure. Plus with Excadrill and Hatterene or another defogger, the hazard control is there to support Zard. With no Kommo-o, weatherball is pretty spammable. Choice specs is of course its best set, scarf or boots might work but not 100% sure on those ones. Here are some replays I got.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1485880688-sa62lz4wj0uy4fl075ztl50f2x174wjpw - It tanks a thousand arrows from zygarde and kills it with weatherball.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1485888055-y4x3xzgebdxphvh8kgbbjrexhr4i7nvpw -Zard kills umbreon from 88 and solos Tentacruel even after the specs got knocked off. It also took advantage of skarmory
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1485890362-9528q69ikt44nlyqqqo4hl8vesl5no1pw - Mandibuzz is scared of Zard and my opp gave me crawdaunt. Zard did finally get the second opportunity to nuke Mandibuzz.

Here are some calcs vs fat

252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 340-402 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO. Also this calc is so frightening.
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon in Sun: 379-447 (96.1 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 248 HP / 168+ SpD Mandibuzz in Sun: 390-460 (92.1 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 168+ SpD Mandibuzz in Sun: 432-508 (102.1 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Scorching Sands vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Nihilego in Sun: 480-568 (126.6 - 149.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Swampert in Sun: 265-312 (65.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Solarbeam is an option to snipe Primarina. I admit Zard isnt a 100% necessity on sun but with its nuking power its certainly worth a consideration on sun. . So I feel C is fine for it

Venusaur and Torkoal to B-

As mentioned above, sun is on the up now on the ladder. Venusaur is an effective sweeper cum cleaner for sun teams after Darm and Zard break walls. Venusaur only has chansey as a reliable switchin and to some extent Nihilego. Torkoal has some good utility as a sun setter like rapid spin, stealth rocks, yawn, will- o- wisp and can check Zarude and Bulu.

Darmanitan to C+

Darm hits incredibly hard in the sun. Scarf is a decent revenge killer, do damage with Flare Blitz, can u-turn, trick or earthquake. Banded Darm 2hkoes the entire tier. Now its has limited longevity like Zard and faces competition from Entei but the power is worth considering.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day.

 

[Y1theking100]

@ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Toxic
- Skitter Smack
- Sludge wave
- Superpower
- Earthquake

You know zygarde-10% has like... 4 moves not 20. It is running toxic 90% of the time as crippling tang is its biggest target. I was showing these examples as zygarde-10% lack of ohko potential and means it often has to 2hko it. You mentionted pert cant deal with it but it can toxic it and make sure zygarde-10% turns are limited especially if it wants to stay in, primarina can tank a hit, sludge wave is non existant and bulu can often check or counter it with cleric support, amoonguss gets 2hko'ed but it can just switch out on the outrage oof the momentum loss as you get a turn 3 outrage against celesteela, skarmory, or even cobalion.

Yes you can pivot zygarde-10% in but that is why it needs team support and does not warrant S tier at all, it cannot be slapped on most teams and you need to support it greatly in order to achieve success. Most teams can afford to trade against it and go 1 for 1 pokemon and just revenge zygarde-10%. It is also very hazard vulnurable as it often needs to switch out after 1 move racking up that chip damage meaning that swampert who couldnt finish it off will either make it unable to do much or just kill it with hazard damage

I agree that it does need support but so do the mons that you mention. Meaning that if Amoonguss is getting 2hko by Outrage then it would need a teammate that can deal with Outrage and pray that it is a 3 turn Outrage than a 2 turn Outrage so that you can punish Zydog. And saying that I need at least 2 mons to deal with Zydog (Bulky Grass+ Steel) just shows how dominating Zydog is as a Breaker. And with the tech options like Sludge Wave, Skitter Smack, Stone Edge and etc, they are only there if you want to catch a mon that can usually switchin on Zydog off-guard. Even though Toxic is always in the last slot Toxic can be dropped if you want coverage for something else that isn't Tangrowth.

 

[Monky25]

Can you guys shut up about zydog you’ve gone back and forth for 5 posts already. It seems like you aren’t going to reach an agreement so I’m gonna shut the conversation down to keep it from clogging and derailing the thread. If you insist on having this convo so badly do it on your own terms via PMs or perhaps in the UnderUsed Discord to have a public convo. Further continuation of this convo will be put to a stop.

 

[KrookKing]

Galar-Bro: B+ - B,

As much as I like to rag on this mon cause honestly I still dont see what everyone else sees about this mon, it just isnt good atm. pretty much every drop kills it or threatens it one way or another. Slowkings re-introduction means its god competition from a fellow slow mon and honestly, thats about it for me. Its just really not good.

Now for a nom I really dont wanna talk about,

Krookodile: B+ :(

As much as it really pains me to say it its just got too much competition, as a ground type theres Swampert as a rocker with a switch move (I really think that the mistake from early DLC when it said Krookodile got Flip Turn was a missed opportunity...) Excadrill as a sweeper with much stronger EQs and stab steel for fairies, and Zydog having a better speed tier and Extreme Speed. Its got Intimidate, Taunt and Knock Off over the 3 but the other grounds better matchups in the meta atm isnt doing it favors.
As a Dark type its really got it rough, Hydreigon coming back, Zarude and Galar-Tres increase, and Mandibuzz existing just puts it out of the job. Offensively its got Knock but again, their better matchups against the meta hurts it once again. Unfortunately Krookodile is on the decline and hopefully I can keep it from falling any further.

 

[Tr1stan]

A<A+
While Yes, Jirachi is already in A tier I think it should be moved up to A+ tier because it's able to use serene grace with ancient power to get the stat noost and hit hard with stored power plus it can
set-up rocks and it has really good statistics, It has a wide move pool and a typing that is vital to most teams, people tend too look over this pokemon because of how it can get ohko'd by 1 earthquake but this pokemon can defuse ground types with stored power but, people tend to believe that most of Jirachi's sets are gimikey. This pokemon,can easly wall rock and poison types, you dont have to worry about toxic because of Jirachi's steel typing
And you dont have worry about bug types, flying types, fire types, or fighting types either.
Sure, this pokemon does get walled by some mons like Zarude amd Excadrill but other then those and a few more rhis mon can deal some damage.

 

[Monky25]

800th post yay

With UU champs over, snake basically over, and several weeks of development in the post-Mienshao metagame, I feel it would be appropriate to give some nominations on some changes that could be made to the VR.

to A/A+: Swampert in A- is criminal. It has defined itself in UU as one of the best rockers in the tier, preventing entry hazard removers like excadrill, tentacruel, mandibuzz, and salamence from coming in because of earthquakes and toxic. Flip turn lets it enable frail breakers like chandelure and azelf, allowing it to be one of the go-to rockers for offensive teams. Its solid bulk and typing means it checks all sorts of threats like thundurus lacking grass knot, excadrill, moltres, starmie, nihilego, and the rotom forms. Its ability to further customize itself with either a physically defensive or specially defensive spread yields to its already top-notch versatility. Currently it is the 5th most used Pokemon in the UU snake draft, sporting 39 uses overall with a 61.54% win rate, though it could def be #4 since cumulative stats don’t have week 7 and semis. These results are very impressive and quite literally outdo all the Pokemon in the A rank. A clear metagame staple, Swampert should rise to A minimum and even could be argued to go to A+ based on its sheer dominance and role compression.

to A-: I’m not a fan of Hydreigon right now. Even though the metagame post Mienshao is slightly slower Hydreigon still sits at a very vulnerable speed tier that limits the effectiveness of non choice scarf sets. Zarude, salamence, cobalion, thundurus, nihilego, zydog, and azelf all limit the progress of Hydreigon’s wallbreaking power. Defensive switch-ins like celesteela, mandibuzz,and primarina also limit the effectiveness of Hydreigon. Throughout Snake Hydreigon has mostly been seen as a choice scarf revenge killer, which ends up being a U-turn bot all game while wearing itself down with rocks and being too afraid to click its STABs. It’s not the beast we expected it to be, dropping Hydreigon to A- reflects its viability far better.

to A-: Similarly, I’m not too impressed with Skarmory lately. It often feels like a liability being a steel that can’t take on prim, aegi, or salamence. Spikes haven’t been that effective lately, and Skarmory in general doesn’t match up well against top threats like celesteela, moltres forms, azelf, and slowking. It faces severe competition from Celesteela who sports much better mixed bulk and better matchups against the wider tier than Skarmory. This bird isn’t the word right now and should drop to A-

to A-/A: Little azelf finally made it to the big leagues. Often memed in early dlc 2, azelf has continued to improve in viability throughout the various metagame changes. It's the fastest UU mon, only really compared with Zygarde-19% in terms of common threats. Knock + U-turn is a stupidly good combo as always, allowing azelf to cripple answers like mandibuzz and support its team. Expert belt sets are also very prominent, having unique coverage like shadow ball or energy ball that can catch something like slowking or swampert by surprise. Continuously performing excellently in snake and keeping this performance up post-Mienshao, I think it’s time to rise Azelf into the A ranks at last. Call me crazy but this mon could arguably go further than A- and be A.

to B+/B: I’ve talked about this mon before in the discord but I’m really not a fan of rotom-w anymore. It fails to reliably check much of the higher ranks, only matching well against skarmory, celesteela, and moltres, though the latter can pivot out easily with U-turn. I find its vulnerability to threats like excadrill, zarude, and zydog very harmful, giving me less reason to use it over other waters like primarina, slowking, and swampert. Thundurus, even though it’s declined a bit, is still the far better electric pivot. Coupled with very minimal usage in UU snake, Rotom-W clearly isn’t part of the metagame right now and should reside in the B ranks.

to A+: I’m of the opinion that there isn’t a need for the S rank as of now. Don’t get me wrong, Aegislash and Thundurus are still very threatening Pokemon and in my top 5, but comparing their viability to other top threats like Amoonguss, Primarina, Excadrill, and Zarude, they can easily fit right into A+. Aegi suffers the same issues with speed and being a steel that can be exploited if lacking proper defensive investment. It’s very dangerous in the long term but it’s not insane. Thundurus meanwhile has had a fall from grace, no longer hearing many cries to ban it. With Mienshao gone, Thundurus lost its best partner and teams were easily able to slot in checks to thundurus now. Pokemon like zygarde-10%, swampert, mamoswine, nihilego, tapu bulu, azelf, cobalion, zarude, and more can limit thundurus’s progress. It’s also reliant on trading with many threats because volt switch can kinda be weak sometimes on the pivot set. Like I said earlier, both of these Pokemon are still very good but I believe they can fit in A+ nicely.

These next ones are much briefer

to B-: I am very much in support of ranking Salazzle on the VR, though it’s main viability stems from a boots set with toxic and knock off rather than choice specs. Salazzle is very tough to switch into, fire is an amazing offensive typing right now and knock + toxic cripples everything.. Its speed tier is very insane, getting the jump on cobalion, zarude, thundurus, and azelf. Very effective late-game cleaner and progress maker despite its poor bulk, I’m in favor of ranking it at B- since it’s far better than the C ranks. I’ve talked about it a fair bit on the discord so don’t want to rehash everything.

to A-: Suffers the same issues as always, prim being god gives it competition on teams and low speed and poor bulk means it doesn’t get to come in much and wallbreak. Building with it is quite awkward, common threats like zarude, thundurus, and amoonguss all hinder progress. Hasn’t gotten any meaningful use lately either, A- is much more indicative of its viability.

to A-: Very solid rocker that has come up lately, dicks zarude while outspeeding nihilego and thundurus. Walls amoonguss if something is slept and mono-dark mandibuzz too. Rocks + momentum is always great and pairs well with steela to make up for cobalion being a fake steel. It’s like #10 or something close to that in snake, which is very insane to me. A great option right now to exploit the slower tier and should be in the A ranks.

to A: Farms offense, very hard to switch into, takes advantage of all the teams using amoonguss as their main grass. Can get around checks like mandibuzz with toxic and zarude with superpower but needs to click at the right time and has very poor defensive utility. Still a dominant threat and should rise to A.

to C: Frankly Seismitoad is near unviable now and could lose its ranking in the not so distant future. Knock + water immunity is nice on the 5% of fat teams that like it but most of the time bulky offense and balance teams will use swampert over this because of the better bulk and momentum. I don’t know if Seismitoad’s merits will keep it from getting removed from the VR but it certainly should be in the C ranks for now.

to higher (B- for venusaur and torkoal and C+ for darmanitan): Should’ve risen last update but didn’t, sun is a solid playstyle right now. Venusaur steamrolls any unprepared team with a boost and darm has like 2 switch-ins under sun. Not much to say rise them up.

to UR: I personally believe none of these are viable enough to warrant a ranking. Rain is very bad with limited abusers and a tough time beating threats like slowking, amoonguss, and salamence, especially when these can be found on the same team. It hasn’t shown itself to really warrant a ranking with the tools it has. Metagross I’ve already ranted about but basically every UU steel + cobalion does anything it wants to do better. Crobat hits like a wet noodle and doesn’t really check much that can be checked elsewhere. Obstagoon has had no usage these past few months and is quite defensively lacking. It’s tough to build with and relies on RestTalk unless there’s a sleeper set I missed. The great stall matchup (I think?) doesn’t save it. Lastly screens have barely been used at all, only being brought once in snake if I remember correctly. A big fish and even though it's useable it doesn’t cross the viability threshold for me to keep it ranked.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

View attachment 397602A<A+
While Yes, Jirachi is already in A tier I think it should be moved up to A+ tier because it's able to use serene grace with ancient power to get the stat noost and hit hard with stored power plus it can
set-up rocks and it has really good statistics, It has a wide move pool and a typing that is vital to most teams, people tend too look over this pokemon because of how it can get ohko'd by 1 earthquake but this pokemon can defuse ground types with stored power but, people tend to believe that most of Jirachi's sets are gimikey. This pokemon,can easly wall rock and poison types, you dont have to worry about toxic because of Jirachi's steel typing
And you dont have worry about bug types, flying types, fire types, or fighting types either.
Sure, this pokemon does get walled by some mons like Zarude amd Excadrill but other then those and a few more rhis mon can deal some damage.

This pokemon is celesteela, and exca food, while being unable to really deal with some others like aegislash, and skarm if its the standard wish or scarf set. Amoonguss and tang also stop it as its standard sets are walled. Ancient power is not good... jirachi is not usually given much breathing room at all for free turns to fish for constant turns of ancient power and then comes the choice.... 2 moves which leaves you pretty darn screwed to many pokemon... either it is to aegislash, celesteela, or excadrill, krookodile, rhyperior. I mean being exca food to a pokemon seen on 1/3 teams per game is not that good especially since you give it free spin, rocks and free turns

 

[Y1theking100]

I believe that with how UU is now after the Shao ban some mons have gotten better and worse.

to C+
I believe Rhyperior should got to C+ as it can still get up rocks and threatening most defogger/Spinners with Edge+Quake but now it's harder to fit on teams as it is doesn't bring as much as other rockers. Necrozma should go to C+ since with its low speed and having 4mss it's always getting denied of potential sweeps. Physical sets are walled by Skarm/Mandi and Special sets are walled by King/ Chansey. And is overshadowed by Azelf since it has higher speed, Uturn, an immunity and doesn't struggle with 4mss.

to UR
I believe all of these mons have just gotten significantly worse as time has gone on. Roserade has been going downhill ever since Buzzwole left the tier as it can't reliable get Spikes up anymore. It provides nothing defensively and with the loss of hp fire it isn't offensively threatening. Skarm, Golisopod, and even Froslass have more going for them then Roserade. Grimmsnarl and Obstagoon are just bad as Screens aren't good with the light clay ban and Conk just being the better Guts user. So they sometimes just come out to die or not do anything at all. Gigalith only niche is sand and sand isn't good at all. Sand has no abuser other than drill. Sand actually hinders Drill as most excadrills will want to run Mold Breaker to hit the rotom appliances. Drill can break on its own without sand (Rapin spin speed boost) meaning it doesn't need Gigalith, taking away its only niche. Scolipede has a hard time doing anything as it needs an SD to start breaking and without any real bulk it will get revenge killed pretty easily or will die before it can set up to sweep.

Now that that's done some mons I believe should rise

to C
I believe that Incineroar has gotten better since it can take advantage of Grass and Steel types being very good right now. Being able to Knock, momentum in Parting Shot and Toxic incoming ground types is very good. Raikou should move up as sub cm sets are still dangerous being able to set up in front of passive pokemon as well as specs hitting like a truck and loves that counters like chansey, Scarf Krook and Toad are falling off. Salazzale has been popping up alot so I'll just give my opinion on it. Salazzale seems very good being faster then the whole meta unboosted and like I said with Incineroar is able to take advantage of the rising of Steel and Grass types and Posion anything it wants to wear down for later. Silvally-Ghost and Fighting are my personal nomination because Ghost provides defog, spin blocker, momentum in Uturn/Parting Shot, fast Shadow Balls, can hit all of the dark types in the tier with Ice Beam and can boost its special attack. While Fighting hits everything with Multi-Attack and Parting Shot/Uturn on everything that resists. Lapras is also one of my personal nomination because it has decent bulk and speed, priorty ice Shard for weakened mons, rest for recovery and can take advantage of Regen cores. It has strong ice stab which is very strong against this tier. Lapras has it downsides but it also brings a lot and I have replays of Lapras not being dead weight lol.

content://media/external/downloads/1998

content://media/external/downloads/1997

 

[afuyeas]

The Bs look kinda cluttered so here's one:

to C+

Toxtricity continues the line of cool pokemon that unfortunately suck. When was the last time you saw one do anything? the only win it got in snake draft was in a game where it was about to be 2hkod by a Thundurus-T. Poison / Electric is actually a pretty nifty defensive typing with important resistances to fairy and fighting (among others) but Toxtricity's frailty prohibits it from making use of its resistances more than once. And even if it manages to get in its unfortunate base 75 speed catches up to it and makes it nearly impossible for Toxtricity to accomplish much against anything but the slowest of teams that will have something to take its hits anyway. Simply put, Toxtricity's combination of low bulk and low speed leaves it outclassed by much better poison types or electric types with either better bulk or better speed (or even both) and with a better match up against the overall metagame as a result. There is little reason to use Toxtricity as an offensive poison type when Roserade still has some use with spikes support and Salazzle has been on the rise even though it isn't ranked with its great speed and offensive typing while Thundurus-T does everything Toxtricity would want to do but far better due to its superior speed and when it comes to electric types, faster is often better.

to B-: I am very much in support of ranking Salazzle on the VR, though it’s main viability stems from a boots set with toxic and knock off rather than choice specs. Salazzle is very tough to switch into, fire is an amazing offensive typing right now and knock + toxic cripples everything.. Its speed tier is very insane, getting the jump on cobalion, zarude, thundurus, and azelf. Very effective late-game cleaner and progress maker despite its poor bulk, I’m in favor of ranking it at B- since it’s far better than the C ranks. I’ve talked about it a fair bit on the discord so don’t want to rehash everything.

Incidentally, I fully agree with Monky about Salazzle and I support a ranking to B- and that is why I'm nominating Toxtricity all the way down to C+ as seeing Salazzle below it in the next update because Toxtricity has been forgotten about would be some nonsense.

 

[pokemonisfun]

A couple Pokemon that I have been experimenting with in UU discord @laddering sessions. I am completely serious when I make these noms they are in good faith.

UR --> B+ rank

QUACK ATTACK (Sirfetch’d) @ Leek
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Brave Bird
- Leaf Blade
- First Impression

So the main question is what role does this Pokemon have over Conkeldurr? A few answers:

• The ability to outspeed Skamory, Mandibuzz, Azumarill, Tapu Bulu and Primarina is extremely important since Skarmory and Mandibuzz can normally switch into Conkeldurr and trade with Brave Bird and Primarina can normally easily check Conkeldurr. Sirfetch'd savagely 2HKOs/OHKOs all of these Pokemon and outspeeds them. It notably 2HKOs Skarmory with just one critical hit and OHKOs max defense Primarina with just SR.
• The ability to crush Amoonguss and OHKO with Brave Bird critical hit (50% of the time) from 100% with just SR (or no hazards most of the time). Conkeldurr does it too but cannot OHKO and needs Flame Orb to activate.
• First Impression's ability to immediately threaten Zarude with an OHKO as well as other targets Mach Punch cannot target: Azelf and Venusaur. It's actually just much stronger than Mach Punch should it get a critical hit, KOing Zygarde for example while Conkeldurr needs to weaken it more.
• Scrappy can prevent prediction games vs Aegislash and other Ghost types, and makes Intimidate Salamence a much shakier switch in.

There are weaknesses compared to Conkeldurr - less reliable because of the reliance on critical hits (but you often get more than one shot to hit, as in vs Skarmory switching in you, so you still have a very high chance to win (75% chance to get at least 1 crit on Skarmory after 2 Close Combats) - and less bulk + Brave Bird recoil. However, these negatives + the worse Moltres MU are outweighed on teams that need the positives mentioned above which are perfectly viable.

See three replays for Sirfetch'd use in UU:

1) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1490806379-gy0yih1g55vv3533batarjzopgmm6mvpw: Yes it's just two turns but the point of this game is to show 1) how Sirfetch'd can be used on Conkeldurr and 2) it simply has good match ups vs perfectly viable teams. As early as turn 1, my opponent already has a 50-50 to make - stay in with Zarude to U-Turn or switch out and get OHKOd/outsped and 2HKO on every mon. They lose the turn 1 prediction and either forget about Scrappy/are oblivious to the likely Leek and assume Band and promptly lose another Pokemon turrn 2.

Conkeldurr cannot do this because it needed Flame Orb to pressure. Yes the turn 2 was just a misplay by my opponent but the turn 1 is perfectly reasonable and shows how good Sirfetch'd can be on preview.

2) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1490795666: See the opponent's Sylveon balance which theoretically should have a better match up vs Sirfetch'd than Primarina balances because Primarina gets annhilated by Leaf Blade. It simply goes in on a rampage vs Seismitoad at the lead again and forces the opponent into a defensive position but they cannot defend because Sylveon takes too much and they just end up dropping mons quickly.

3) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1490714950: This MU is much harder as the opponent has one of the best Sirfetch'd responses in Moltres, but Sirfetch'd still finds the ability to come in multiple times. Note how I can stay in once on Moltres turn 40 because I have multiple Moltres counters and the opponent tries to catch a switch. Note also how Sirfetch'd could simply kill Moltres 50% of the time on turn 39.

B+ is reasonable to me as it's clearly not as easy to build with as Conkeldurr which has bulk and an ability to sponge status but Sirfetch'd is still a good pick for many offensive teams.

UR --> B rank

ice meme (Vanilluxe) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Sleep Talk
- Ice Beam

The main question is what niche does Vanilluxe fill and how well does it fill it?

• It can absorb Spore and takes advantage of the bulky Primarina/Amoonguss/Mandibuzz cores that run around
• Extremely strong Blizzard + Hail damage means not even the prominent Aegislash can comfortably switch in - for example, if Sub Toxic max HP Aegislash switches in on Blizzard, it gets outsped and 3HKO while it cannot OHKO Vanilluxe back

Of course defensively building with Ice types is difficult but UU has multiple good defensive pivots to enable Vanilluxe, like Swampert's slow Flip Turn (which lures in Grass types for Vanilluxe to abuse).

See three replays of Vanilluxe:

1) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1487456034: The Vanilluxe user runs into a team where the steel type is Skarmory + Amoonguss and Mandibuzz and Swampert are used. All complete bait for Vanilluxe which just absolutely brutalizes the team. This game shows how Vanilluxe can have winning match ups vs bulky teams that rely on steel type Skarmory/Celesteela

2) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1489795285 Vanilluxe obviously has a much worse match up here vs multiple steel types and Slowking to force Freeze Dry guesses but still, it shows some use by gravely weakening Aegislash so it goes into Lycanroc range later in the game.

3) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1489805067 Another example of a team without ice resists but slow Pokemon simply getting abused. Note that there is no real building flaw - Ice is simply not a type to prep for, they still have a Steel type but Hail damage makes them much less effective as they often rely on Leftovers (Celesteela and Aegislash especially). Note the power lets it maul a +1 Slowbro-Galarian.

B sounds reasonable since it's so good at dismantling defenses and three common steels right now (Excadrill, Celesteela, and Skarmory) do not resist Ice.

 

[Celebiii]

UR -> C
I'm talking about my favourite Pokemon again - what a surprise! Today, I'm gonna be comparing Celebi with some of its competition to hopefully show what makes it a worthwhile choice in UU. I will be looking at Celebi as a Grass-type since it can be very difficult to stack multiple Grass-types on your team, whereas multiple Psychic-types is much more manageable. So, what are Celebi's niches over other UU-viable Grass-types?

• Ability to set Stealth Rock. This is the biggest one, as no other UU-viable Grass type can do this.
• Reliable manual recovery with Recover. Most Grass-types have to rely on Synthesis for manual recovery, and its 8PP can be exploitable. Celebi's Recover has double this, and is also not affected by rare weather changes.
• Great natural Speed, only being slower than Zarude and Virizion.
• Ability to threaten Poison-types and Fighting-types with STAB Psychic. This is most notable in beating Conkeldurr and Keldeo, but also comes up vs. Cobalion and Heracross.
• Resists Ground and Psychic (notable when comparing to Amoonguss and Roserade). The Ground resistance is very notable against Zygarde-10% and Excadrill in particular, but the Psychic resistance means that Thundurus-Therian also cannot threaten Celebi without either: 1) 2 Nasty Plot boosts at minimum; 2) carrying Sludge Wave; or 3) U-Turning out (which Celebi is able to Recover all the taken damage back immediately).
• Relatively unbothered by status thanks to Natural Cure. It still cannot stay in forever if Toxic'd, but it isn't as permanently crippled by it either.

I may provide more replays in the future, but I also encourage you to look at and try out the team I made with it to see for yourself what it can do. For now, thanks for reading!

Replays:

• https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1492870405-c7v11ao0rgmgn4i5ofdnjjzvfx0ovhtpw

 

[Lily]

Locking this for an update, expect one in the coming days~!

 

[Lily]

And here's the update!

Rises

A -> A+
A- -> A
A- -> A
A- -> A
A- -> A
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
C -> C+
C -> B-
C -> B-
C -> C+
C -> C+
C -> B-
C -> B-
UR -> B
UR -> B-
UR -> C+
UR -> C+
UR -> C+
UR -> C+
UR -> C
UR -> C

Drops

S -> A+
S -> A+
A -> A-
A -> A-
A -> A-
A -> A-
A -> A-
A -> A-
A -> A-
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B
B+ -> B-
B+ -> B
B+ -> B-
B+ -> B-
B+ -> B
B+ -> B-
B -> B-
B -> C+
B -> C+
B -> C+
B -> C
B -> C+
B -> B-
B -> C
B- -> C
B- -> C+
B- -> C
B- -> C
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> UR
C+ -> UR
C+ -> UR
C+ -> C
C+ -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR
C -> UR

I am sure as shit not writing something up for all of these so if you have any questions, just ask!

Here's a link to the voting sheet for anyone curious: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ahe69J-GzBEWBAXdLGE3KfIQKVqXuf74_Jm-bnOWan0/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Tungdil]

A- -> B+

Is that because of rising? Thanks in advance.

 

[Lily]

Is that because of rising? Thanks in advance.

Mandibuzz is definitely annoying for Gyarados but it's not just that. Between a lot of Amoonguss and Zarude usage, more Celesteela than we'd seen before, some more Chansey, Zygarde-10% (and thus a strong Extreme Speed) popping up, the rise of Cobalion and continued usage of stuff like Skarmory, Salamence and Aegislash... it's just pretty hard to get Gyarados going, and even when you do it's often not worth it. The hyper offense teams it thrives on have also not really been very consistent since the Kommo-o ban, so it's harder to fit than it used to be. Hopefully that helps clarify things o/