Resource SS UU Crown Tundra Viability Ranking Thread

Lily

wouldn't that be fine, dear
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VR update inbound!

New
:scizor: UR -> S
:hippowdon: UR -> S-

Rises
:amoonguss: A -> A+
:nihilego: A -> A+
:cobalion: A- -> A
:hydreigon: A- -> A
:skarmory: A- -> A
:diggersby: A -> A-
:keldeo: B+ -> A-
:rotom-wash: B+ -> A-
:nidoking: B -> B+
:entei: B- -> B
:hatterene: B- -> B
:registeel: B- > B
:crobat: C+ -> B+
:dhelmise: C+ -> B-
:raikou: C+ -> B
:cloyster: UR -> B-
:Nidoqueen: UR -> B+
:Inteleon: UR -> C+
:Klefki: UR -> C
:Scrafty: UR -> C
:Gastrodon: UR -> C

Drops

:Slowking: S- -> A
:Zarude: S- -> A+
:Excadrill: A+ -> A
:Azelf: A -> A-
:Chansey: A -> A-
:Mamoswine: A -> A-
:Moltres: A -> A-
:Swampert: A -> A-
:Lycanroc-Dusk: A- -> B+
:Krookodile: B+ -> B
:Salazzle: B+ -> B
:Tapu Bulu: B+ -> B
:Darmanitan: B- -> C+
:Marowak-Alola: B- -> C+
:Porygon2: B- -> C+
:Roserade: B- -> C+
:Torkoal: B- -> C+
:Tornadus: B- -> C+
:Vanilluxe: B- -> C
:Venusaur: B- -> C+
:Diancie: C+ -> C
:Sirfetch C+ -> C
:Celebi: C -> UR
:Centiskorch: C -> UR
:Charizard: C -> UR
:Gardevoir: C -> UR
:Heracross: C -> UR
:Mantine: C -> UR
:Mesprit: C -> UR
:Polteageist: C -> UR
:Weezing-Galar: C -> UR

We also nuked the B- rank for now as it's just been a source of trouble in recent votes & we feel it's similar to C in that it's not worth splitting hairs over mons that aren't that viable when we could instead focus on those that are. We may revisit this in future, though.

I'm definitely not writing descriptions for like 50 changes lol but if anyone has any questions about any mon on here feel free to ask and I'll answer whenever I get the chance!
 
why didnt diancie drop further... i assume that the ban of moltres-g and more nihilego would give it more competition and hippo, and scizor just keep it in check and abuse it while hippo sets rocks up on it and toxic's it
 

Estarossa

moo?
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why didnt diancie drop further... i assume that the ban of moltres-g and more nihilego would give it more competition and hippo, and scizor just keep it in check and abuse it while hippo sets rocks up on it and toxic's it
We voted before Moltres-G was actually banned, which is a large part of why it didn't get unranked in this update. It does still have some niches however over Nihilgo and the likes that could justify keeping it ranked in the future, in particular its Heal Bell compression, and access to Mystical Fire so that Scizor doesn't really just switch in completely freely on it (and similarly for Aegi).
 
I’m not too familiar with the tier but I got a few questions before I make my noms

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Why did these three rise? Wouldn’t Nihi drop with Coba rising and Scizor being in the tier? Crobat has a niche but I am not sure how significant it is for it to rise to B+. I have no idea what Scrafty’s niche is, I’m curious.

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Why did Molt drop and Gardevoir get UR’d? I would’ve expected Molt to get even better with Zor in the tier. As for Gard, Specs Psyshock/MBlast/Mystical Fire is difficult to switch into. With Trace it copies Sand Rush or Regen, giving it at least a small niche. Plus it has a ton of utility with Scarf Trick, Healing Wish, and/or Memento on HO.
 

Lily

wouldn't that be fine, dear
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Why was Inteleon ranked? What does it even do thats worth using essentially a Sceptile with DLC?
Inteleon's really fast and pretty strong. Those are two very good traits in a tier with a dearth for speed control options; being able to outspeed and threaten all of Zygarde-10%, Azelf, Nihilego, Thundurus-T, Cobalion etc. is a nice trait that few mons can boast, so Inteleon got a modest ranking to reflect its ability to do so. It's also a decent albeit shaky offensive Scizor check so that's cool, and it has coverage for quite a few of the best Water resists (e.g. shadow ball / dark pulse for Slowking).

2C0427AE-246A-44C2-BE40-07F94BE455F2.png
EC9FA750-C053-4892-8866-A4F4FF217372.png
F9A880F3-4120-4633-B569-D249F037913B.png

Why did these three rise? Wouldn’t Nihi drop with Coba rising and Scizor being in the tier? Crobat has a niche but I am not sure how significant it is for it to rise to B+. I have no idea what Scrafty’s niche is, I’m curious.
- Nihilego's rise was overdue, even with Scizor in the tier it still is amazing because if the opponent is using Scizor as their Steel-type, chances are they don't like switching into Power Gem at all, and Nihilego is still one of the most reliable Stealth Rock setters because of how few things can actually remove in its face - it's really just Excadrill that can do so
- Crobat's been seeing a lot of tournament usage for a while now. It's got great utility between its great typing, decent bulk and fast Brave Bird / U-turn, and being a decent Defogger or user of Taunt is super helpful. It's a good speed control option because of how well it reverses momentum on mons like Zarude and it's decently hard to switch into for teams that use something like Scizor or Skarmory as their Steel type
- Scrafty is a decent Aegislash check, most notably dumpstering SubTox sets. Beyond that it can sweep a lot of unprepared teams due to the lack of Fairy-types in the tier and its generally solid special bulk lets it act as a situational check to mons like Nihilego, Hydreigon and Thundurus-T

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Why did Molt drop and Gardevoir get UR’d? I would’ve expected Molt to get even better with Zor in the tier. As for Gard, Specs Psyshock/MBlast/Mystical Fire is difficult to switch into. With Trace it copies Sand Rush or Regen, giving it at least a small niche. Plus it has a ton of utility with Scarf Trick, Healing Wish, and/or Memento on HO.
- Moltres has just been overrated on the VR for a while - it's still very good, but it's not a fan of Nihilego's rise to dominance and while it's a great Scizor check, it really hates switching directly into it since getting its Boots knocked sucks. Having to contend with mons like Primarina, Slowking, Thundurus-T and Hippowdon is also still not great for it.
- Gardevoir is something I really wanted to keep ranked so I'm not the best person to answer this but it's mostly just a case of being more difficult / punishing to use than other special nukes like Hydreigon and Keldeo. It's pretty slow, doesn't offer a whole lot defensively and while it's very difficult to switch into, it's also difficult to generate opportunities for it to attack. Personally I think it should've stayed in the C ranks and voted for it to do so, but others disagreed and I guess I can see why - it's pretty hard to fit it on teams without going out of your way.
 
also another question... why was mantine unranked while gastrodon rose to C.. both of them check keldeo and while gastro has a ground typing mantine has good utility in defog and haze and is immune to spikes from skarm.... at least that is what i think so what happened?
 

Lily

wouldn't that be fine, dear
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also another question... why was mantine unranked while gastrodon rose to C.. both of them check keldeo and while gastro has a ground typing mantine has good utility in defog and haze and is immune to spikes from skarm.... at least that is what i think so what happened?
Gastrodon's not really a good Keldeo check but what it does instead is offer a strong check to Thundurus-T (esp those lacking Grass Knot), Salamence, Nihilego and Moltres, while Mantine doesn't really check much outside of Keldeo bc its typing doesn't really match up too well into much of the meta.

How did Nidoqueen rise?

Isn't she just slighty worse Nidoking?

Or are we at the point we use both? Because I would be down for that.
Nidoqueen's bulk, for lots of teams, is much more important than Nidoking's Speed tier; being able to favourably trade with things like Scizor, Hydreigon and Thundurus-T is great and something her kingly brother can't really do. On more offensive teams, Nidoking's higher power and Speed tend to be more valuable than Nidoqueen's bulk, but most other teams prefer the queen for her much more valuable defensive profile, and she's just about as strong anyway (and is even stronger than Timid Nidoking anyway).
 
-> C+

Idk why this got bumped up as it just struggles.. forced out by the entire meta which favours it less with hippo being in the tier it competes for a ground type slot and nihilego is an excelent rocker and competes with a slot with them. It cannot check much as having lefties knocked off or being poisoned sucks and makes it so it just gets worn down very quickly. Pokemon it should check like nihilego, salamence, aegislash, rotom-h, and maybe some more can easily threaten it with status or dish out a lot of damage to make sure it cannot repeat it more than once. Its slow which means it takes hits much more often and can easily be pressured by meta trends and not benefiting from them such as moltres dropping, nihilego, rotom-w, skarm, rising in usage and hippo being S- makes it less appealing to use.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-618666
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-622161

It is not even used pretty much at all during UUPL as i could only get 2 replays after shifts and it shows how rhyperior struggles since it can easily get statused and worn down and as seen the more common water types, grass types such as tang and amoonguss rising, and many pokemon limit it doesnt do it any favours as it struggles to accomplish anything of value that other pokemon can do as it just toxic'ed a pokemon and got up rocks while also getting stuffed out in the process
 
Nomming :bw/Sigilyph: from UR to C


While there has been recent discussion of fellow Magic Guarder :bw/Reuniclus: 's niche in the tier, I think that Sigilyph is a strong alternative as a Calm Mind setup sweeper that more people should consider. As a whole, the UU tier has relatively few users of Calm Mind compared to previous stages of metagame; I personally only see the occasional CM :Primarina:, :Keldeo:, or :Slowking:. As someone who likes using bulky setup sweepers, this is something I've been exploring as of late.

Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Level: 100
Timid Nature
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Heat Wave
- Psychic
- Roost

Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Level: 100
Timid Nature
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Air Slash
- Psyshock
- Roost

Sigilyph @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Level: 100
Timid Nature
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Psyshock
- Heat Wave
- Roost / Thunder Wave

While Reuniclus boasts superior bulk and a higher special attack stat, it has famously struggled with its choice of coverage on Calm Mind sets, wanting Focus Blast to hit Dark-types, but also Shadow Ball to defeat :Slowking: and especially :Aegislash: much more quickly than Psyshock. Fortunately for Sigilyph, it has no such issue, as it has access to a move that Reuniclus could only dream of: Heat Wave. Psychic + Fire coverage is notoriously strong in the UU tier, with other demons like :Azelf: and :Hatterene: using it to good success. Things that resist this combination, like :Hydreigon: and :Crawdaunt:, must be wary of a potential Air Slash or even Dazzling Gleam (another great coverage option Sigi has) before safely switching in.

Another advantage Sigi has over Reuniclus is its decent base 97 speed tier. While unfortunately still underspeeding :Hydreigon: by one point, getting the jump on strong wallbreakers like CB :Scizor:, offensive :Aegislash:, and :Conkeldurr: is amazing for something that wants to stay on the field for multiple turns, OHKOing the aformentioned three at +1 before they can retaliate.

While Sigilyph is definitely not as bulky as Calm Minders like :Reuniclus: or :Slowbro-Galar:, it is far from unusably frail, being able to survive nearly all relevant priority moves from full, and tanking most SE special hits at +1. Its speed tier also makes it less susceptible to FuturePort than those slower setup sweepers, as :Slowking: can't pivot into a threatening breaker if Sigi will just outspeed and delete that wallbreaker.

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 195-229 (67.4 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 226-268 (78.2 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 242-283 (83.7 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Sigilyph: 114-134 (39.4 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. +1 16 HP / 0 SpD Sigilyph: 204-242 (70.5 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. +1 16 HP / 0 SpD Sigilyph: 186-222 (64.3 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Nihilego Power Gem vs. +1 16 HP / 0 SpD Sigilyph: 206-246 (71.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 411-485 (58.4 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 218-257 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 274-324 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Both: 257-304 (98.4 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mamoswine: 367-433 (101.6 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nihilego: 385-455 (106.9 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psychic vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Quagsire: 220-259 (55.8 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Crawdaunt: 220-259 (82.3 - 97%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 148-175 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Air Slash + Psyshock:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1568458569 This opponent had a threatening team and played well, but fortunately I was able to remove their faster, stronger attackers so Sigilyph could sweep their defensive core

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1567534348-p9ur5opssc6znbx46ogfosvefdq8ai5pw Spore on Excadrill lets Sigi just win vs cool sand team

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1567503449-d0ngyebm15x324vg36wq1esnizwr3cfpw Hydreigon switches into Air Slash Sigi and promptly dies

Heat Wave + Psychic:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1569049187-lvac6vhq6foi2wkzjg7firnu1as5pivpw Unconventional defensive core but Sigilyph just runs through it

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1569060162 Sigi sets up on Mandibuzz then outspeeds and OHKOs Chandelure and Rotom-W (have chat disabled, sorry - ggs friend!)
 
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Scizor doesn't have a UU set so do you use it's OU set
Scizor doesn't have a standard set yet, but it's a fairly customizable Pokemon depending on what your team needs.
Here are some example sets you can use for it:

Swords Dance + Bullet Punch
Scizor @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
- Roost
This set pressures throughout a game with Knock Off and can sweep late-game with Bullet Punch. It has speed for Adamant max Speed Azumarill.

Choice Band
Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
This set aims to wallbreak throughout a game, but can also clean late-game with Bullet Punch.

Bulky Swords Dance + Bullet Punch
Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 228 HP / 160 Atk / 120 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off
- Roost
This set sacrifies Speed and Attack for greater defensive potential. It can survive a Nihilego Meteor Beam.

There are plenty of other possibilities with items like Safety Goggles, Rocky Helmet, Choice Scarf, Occa Berry, etc., and you can customize the EV spread as you need. Scizor is a Swiss Army knife!
 

Estarossa

moo?
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C&C Leader
To add onto the above, there's another popular set that Celebiii didn't mention but something we just recently optimised an EV spread for within QC for our sample sets that will be going up soon, the fat 3 attacks pivot scizor.

Scizor @ Rocky Helmet / Heavy-Duty Boots / Protective Pads
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 104 Def / 140 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

EV Spread - Enough SpD to live Nihi's Power Gem after Stealth Rock MOST of the time (approximately 9% chance of dying, reducing to 0% costs too many EVs to reduce something already as rare as an Ice Beam freeze), relevant for non-boots or if you get knocked while boots. Don't get 2HKO'd by Zarude ever with the defense, while you maintain an offensive presence with an offfensive jump point to better pressure stuff.

252 SpA Nihilego Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Scizor: 132-156 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Zarude Darkest Lariat vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Scizor: 118-141 (34.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

This set essentially combines a lot of scizor's useful defensive traits as a check to Pokemon like Zarude, Nihilego, Tangrowth etc with the ability to offensive check threats with Bullet Punch and generate lots of progress and momentum, Knocking Off switch-ins like Mandibuzz, Moltres, Amoonguss etc and generating offensive opening points for teammates that abuse them. Helmet's really nice to punish stuff like Zarude, Pads is great to avoid being burned by Moltres and to circumvent Rocks better, Boots is obviously nice on a team without removal.
 

Expulso

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-> C+

Idk why this got bumped up as it just struggles.. forced out by the entire meta which favours it less with hippo being in the tier it competes for a ground type slot and nihilego is an excelent rocker and competes with a slot with them. It cannot check much as having lefties knocked off or being poisoned sucks and makes it so it just gets worn down very quickly. Pokemon it should check like nihilego, salamence, aegislash, rotom-h, and maybe some more can easily threaten it with status or dish out a lot of damage to make sure it cannot repeat it more than once. Its slow which means it takes hits much more often and can easily be pressured by meta trends and not benefiting from them such as moltres dropping, nihilego, rotom-w, skarm, rising in usage and hippo being S- makes it less appealing to use.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-618666
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8ou-622161

It is not even used pretty much at all during UUPL as i could only get 2 replays after shifts and it shows how rhyperior struggles since it can easily get statused and worn down and as seen the more common water types, grass types such as tang and amoonguss rising, and many pokemon limit it doesnt do it any favours as it struggles to accomplish anything of value that other pokemon can do as it just toxic'ed a pokemon and got up rocks while also getting stuffed out in the process
figured i’d comment on this since these were both my replays. the first team was pretty bad since we were already in, wish i didnt use it so no more comments there. for the second team, i liked rhyperior to give me a mon that checks molt-galar (yes it does eat, iirc, a +3 wrath from full) + a decent way to offensively pressure mandi. it’s pretty team-specific, though; I wanted to be able to make it a hippo to not be 4x weak to grass knot, for instance. C+ seems fine to me
 
I think Aerodactyl deserves a spot on the viability rankings.

I got to 1600+ in 2 days on an alt account spamming an Aero + Froslass HO team. Aerodactyl has the niche of outspeeding every possible hazard setter or remover bar Accelgor and crobat (not very common) and magic bounce (who froslass beats with Poltergesit)+ being able to OHKO web setters with rock blast. The only somewhat unfavorable matchup is rock tomb exca but you at least can guarantee no hazards.

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake

Froslass @ Focus Sash
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Poltergeist
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond

Celesteela @ Power Herb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Autotomize
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower
- Meteor Beam


Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Necrozma @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Photon Geyser
- X-Scissor
- Heat Wave

Polteageist @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Shadow Ball
- Stored Power
- Giga Drain
 
New update means new noms from me

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A- > A
Should keep rising tbh. Its synergy with Scizor is insane. Very awkward to switch into due to Volt Switch, Hydro, and Wisp/T-Wave/Tox. UU has become a voltturn fun house all thanks to this and Scizor.

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B+ > A-
Less competition for a slot from Gmolt means Gyara becomes more of a menace. +1 Waterfall + Power Whip + Ice Fang is very difficult to switch into. Being able to capitalize on Scizor and Tang’s that are running more AV sets to punish Keld and Thundy is excellent. Can utterly ruin Skarm with Taunt as well as prevent status. Can tech Bounce to mess with Amoonguss. Lum Berry for less risky set ups vs bulky waters. Its insane.

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B+ > B
In a very awkward spot atm. A steel that takes neutral from U-Turn and is weak to Knock due to the cursed Psychic typing. Competition from Scizor and Coba as steel pivots puts it in an awkward spot. Bad mus against top or rising threats. Scarf Healing Wish is nice on certain builds, but I digress.

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B > C+
Poor Krook. Went from the face of UU along with Coba and Hydrei to a shell of its former self. As an offensive rocker its outclassed by Drill. As a scarfer its outclassed by Diggersby. Gets picked off by a lot of the metagame while not offering much defensive utility apart from Taunt. The meta in Gen 8 has become too power crept for Krook. Honestly Drill was the nail in the coffin for it. Hopefully it can one day join RU before SV comes out, where some of the other former UU staples live peacefully like Suicune, Rade, Toge, and Hera.

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B > B+
Demon Steel is one of the most absurd wincons. Even vs teams with Aegi it can potentially pp stall it. Gets stopped hard by Taunt and Skarm, but in the right mus, it is hard to stop once it gets momentum going. It even has midgame usage as a check to Resttalk Prim and Mence.

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C+ > C
Uncertain why its even ranked here. No defensive utility. Heavy competition from Mence and Crobat. Frail in a meta with a ton of speed control and priority. Itemless Defiant Acro sounds nice but it means it has to take rocks and even after a boost it isn’t that strong on the physical side. I could be wrong but I need confirmation.

EB715AA0-0773-4D1A-8B54-9842196458CC.png
C > C+
Any Gen 7 UU players remembered when this thing’s usage skyrocketed while Washtom was in the tier? Well here it is. What it brings to the table is being able to completely sit on non-Toxic Washtom all day, set up rocks, Knocking items, and checking similar mons to Pert while having an awkward speed tier of 74, letting it outspeed things that speed creep Pert.

748CBDEC-4530-442D-A0BC-ABBE2B211F66.png
C > C+
Surprised this isn’t higher considering the fact that there is like three fairies in the tier, and two of the most common ones have no recovery. Unlike in OU with 6 fairies, UU not only has less of them, but the power level makes Draco or Dragon Pulse pack much more of a punch. This also means less things can KO it at full. It doesn’t need Dragon Energy as much here since it can heavily dent steels anyways. There is also the potential for DD with Thunder Fang or Explosion to lure Prim, opening the door for stuff like Keldeo. Definitely a flawed breaker, but its def better than shitty Sirfetch’d, speaking of which.

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C > UR
I know Sirfetch’d is cool and it is a relic of early SS UU, but sometimes we have to let go.
 
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celebi.gif

Celebi dropped off the VR so it's time for me to argue for my favourite mon being viable again! I've already explained what the mon does before, so I won't rehash all of the points again. Instead I'm just going to show you a team I've been using it on (successfully!) to prove that it can still do work.


In comparison to the previous team I used to show Celebi's worth, there are 3 major changes to accomodate the new metagame (though I believe the old team is still good as well). The first is the addition of Skarmory, which is vital to deal with Scizor spamming U-Turns, and helps to patch up this team's greater weakness to Zarude as well. Skarmory also helps this team make progress by laying Spikes and spreading Toxic on switch-ins it otherwise can't threaten, like Moltres and Thundurus-Therian. The second change is the addition of Umbreon, which acts as a physically-biased mixed wall, check to physical boosting threats like Gyarados and Salamence that Skarmory cannot handle, and cleric to keep the team in good shape with Wish. The third is the addition of Nihilego, which helps to pressure Fire-types, and can maintain Stealth Rocks in the face of Defog Mandibuzz and Salamence while threatening KOs on them. Nihilego also helps make progress by spamming Knock Off. The team does still have weaknesses: Hydreigon will require smart pressure with Rotom-Wash, Nihilego, and Umbreon; the Darmanitan matchup can get tough if Umbreon and Rotom-Wash take too much damage; Hatterene needs to be aggressively pressured; and Choice Specs Primarina can do a lot of damage if allowed to come in too many times. However, I haven't found any of these issues to be insurmountable, and the team has performed consistently for me. I've included replays to help prove this (and may add more in the future).

Replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1569976932
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1570275566
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1570499442-ukjnukjt3kg09gmlumsgyeaptqw2btipw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1570610540
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1575519748

With a much shorter post this time out of the way, I'll quickly wrap up this post with my re-nomination of Celebi to C rank. While it still has many weaknesses, I think Celebi still has worthwhile differentiating factors to keep it viable in the current metagame.
 
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-> A-

Regardless of what people think its clear that registeel can win on preview and even be a huge threat in some games. It has shown that many teams can be swept by it instantly once it comes in and it gets many opportunities to setup such as on amoonguss, tang, scarf drei, 3 attacks scizor, CB azu locked into anything but liqudation, prim that is not choiced locked into hydro pump or encore, rotom-w, salamence, slowking, etc. This shows that it has many opportunities to setup its boosts and many teams esp thought UUPL have teams that struggle to break it barring crits. But wait you ask

"what if it faces WW skarmory, trick, or taunt?" Well it can still beat skarm via last mon scenario and even then it can hit it pretty darn hard with +2 body press helping its teammates that would appreciate skarm being weakened. Trick can be outplayed easily and baited since its used on rachi, chandelure, and rotom-w which can easily be scouted and registeel isnt even staying in on chandy anyway and chandy is pretty mid rn so is scarf rachi and idk about that much rotom-w.

"But what if it faces a MU where it cannot sweep what so ever and its not a threat offensively?" well its still a pure steel type which helps it wall many common pokemon in the tier such as the grasses, scizor, and waters which means it is still a great defensive presence in the tier which also contributes to its ability to get many boosts on many pokemon. Registeel being unable to do jack is rare as even celesteela is hurt by a +2 body press

+2 4 Def Registeel Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 160-189 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- 32.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 28 Def Registeel Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 163-192 (48.6 - 57.3%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Def Registeel Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 208-245 (62 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

and slowbro-g is also rare and can be PP stalled as 1/24 crits are pretty rare and registeel only loses potentially to CM slowbro-g which is a pretty rare sight with only 30% of slowbro-g running CM.

I believe the threat of registeel on preview and on teambuilding while also being a good defensive presence regardless allows it to be A- as it is a very underated threat
 

Lily

wouldn't that be fine, dear
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UU Leader
some stuff based on my past week or two of laddering ~300 or so games:

A- -> A
I think Moltres is honestly crazy good and it's weird how people are sleeping on it so much. I've seen some say that Hippo's existence is tough for it but honestly it's not true at all, even max spdef Hippo (uncommon) can't comfortably switch into Moltres at all since if it takes any chip (from Molt's own U-turn even) it just can't handle 2 Hurricanes. Beyond that there really aren't many comfy switch ins at all, it's realistically limited to Nihilego and Slowking (which can't switch in safely if physdef). Moltres has such a nice matchup into top stuff like Skarmory, Aegislash and Scizor too, I think it's in a really great spot rn and should rise. Was the bane of my existence while laddering despite having SpDef Hippo + SpDef Slowking + Thundy.

A- -> A
Keldeo's finally in a good spot. Most teams can't really handle it thaaaat well, Amoonguss / Tangrowth are not rly good answers and Slowking is falling off a little bit while Primarina is uncommon for one reason or another. Salamence is no answer and in particular I think Keldeo's ability to just shred hyper offense is super valuable, not only is it insanely hard for them to take Pump (esp. if they drop Gyarados) but it also has very nice natural bulk & a great typing that lets it check the ever-dangerous Cloyster and Scizor and even stuff like Aegislash in a pinch. I feel like it's on par with Hydreigon which is another great special wallbreaker rn and should rise to meet it.

B -> B+
Saw a ton of usage during the UULT laddering phase which may just be because it's cheese-resistant but I think Registeel's in a good spot rn altho it is still very matchup fishy. Not a fan of how open this leaves you to Aegislash at all, especially SD variants, and as such it needs to be built around which I think limits it from the A ranks, but it's still very good. Lots of teams are just 6-0d by this on preview if they lack Aegislash / Chandelure / Hatterene / IDef Skarm / SD Cobalion / NP Togekiss, which seems like a lot but that's still a pretty small subset of mons and unless your entire team prevents Registeel from setting up you'll probably have some trouble with it.

B -> B+
Demon, bullies Skarm teams so hard and is really annoying to deal with once it gets going which isn't too hard for it to do. Think it's in a very good spot rn with Skarm's dominance & its ability to bully (at least somewhat) teams that rely on Aegislash / Scizor for it.

C+ -> B / B+
Unexpected I'm sure but yeah, I wholly support this and will give some strong reasoning as to why so that nobody just thinks I'm nomming up a meme mon that I like.

Noivern's main appealing trait is of course its Speed which is more valuable than ever right now. Since most Crobats aren't running max Speed (I sniped way too many with Draco on the ladder...), Noivern is the fastest Pokemon in UU. Being able to outspeed and threaten OHKOs or near-OHKOs on all of Scizor, Salamence, Thundurus-T, Zarude, Cobalion, Hydreigon, Zygarde-10%, Starmie, Nidoking and Azelf is something very few other Pokemon can boast. Not only can it do this, it can also switch into these Pokemon (sometimes situationally, sometimes consistently) - Zarude and Azelf (the most common set I ran into on ladder, at least, which was Psychic/Flamethrower/Energy Ball/U-turn) can be pivoted into all game long thanks to your speedy Roost, and while Stone Edge from Cobalion is annoying you can take pretty much any other move easily. On top of this, threatening defensive staples like Tangrowth, Skarmory and Amoonguss is very nice, it's a good Mach Punch resist so you can RK Conkeldurr and it also 1v1s stuff like Mandibuzz if push comes to shove. All of this while having excellent defensive utility (much of Salamence's utility is also shared by Noivern - the fast Roost makes up for lacking intimidate when switching into stuff like Zarude or Entei, though you do suffer a worse matchup against Excadrill - you also have equally "bad" matchups against Keldeo since, while Salamence can slow Roost on Secret Sword and thus not be weak to it, Salamence can't roost off Hydro Pump since it's 2HKOd, while Noivern can PP stall them.) As pif said in one of my ladder games, being able to reverse momentum on popular momentum grabbers like Azelf, Zarude and Raikou is super nice and pretty unique to it.

All of this sounds great and all, but it still does have the same flaws as ever. Primarina wholly invalidates your existence, and while that's not always a huge deal if you run into standard RestTalk sets, you do need to be extremely careful around Specs and SubCM (Specs less so since you can wear that down pretty quickly via U-turn + hazards for an eventual Noivern win, but SubCM is a big threat). Additionally it's not even close to a wallbreaker - it's pretty strong and can pop offensive Pokemon, but you're toast into stuff like SpDef Hippo/Slowking outside of just U-turning on them all game long. Checks without reliable recovery like Swampert and Tentacruel tend to be favourable matchups because Noivern is outlasting them long-term, but they do keep you in check temporarily which is frustrating of course. There are also some priority mons you just can't handle (Mamoswine, Life Orb Scizor specifically - Noivern actually does check non-LO kinda, Lycanroc), and being forced to click Draco can occasionally be a lose-lose situation, though this can all be circumvented with a little support. They are notable flaws though, which is why I don't think Noivern belongs in the A ranks - it's very good but it does need support.

Here are some replays to show I'm not just talking out of my ass:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1570599713 - Once I'm able to wear down my opponent's main check in Swampert, Noivern KOs Salamence and automatically wins the game. It's also shown to be a capable switch in to Keldeo, Scizor and Azelf, all situationally but ya.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1570597507 - Noivern KOs both Scizor and Moltres - both of my opponent's Zarude checks - early in the game, at which point it wins on its own (or would've had my opponent not forfeited) as soon as Hippowdon goes down to Zarude.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1569350215 - As soon as Hippowdon trades a Toxic on Slowking, Noivern has essentially won the game; it even pops a Crobat from full HP due to being faster than it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1568530616 - Checks a bunch of Pokemon early game between Zarude / Cobalion / Amoonguss and ends up sweeping once Slowking is KOd.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1567623960 - KOs Hippowdon itself and then wins, you know the drill by now
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1566924056 - Solos Mandibuzz at which point it can clean up the remaining 4 members of the opponent's team
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1566848856 - Even in a nightmare matchup with Chansey + Primarina + Mamoswine, Noivern manages to sweep at the end by outspeeding and deleting a Crobat, finishing up Zarude and Azelf afterwards

It's a good Pokemon! Speed is super vital in this tier and realistically Noivern hits the hardest out of the >115 options we have, being a reasonable amount stronger than Crobat and harder to wall since it can actually hit Steel-types for non-negligible damage and doesn't give free turns to the best Pokemon in the tier. It's seeing lots of use in Open and Ladder Tour even if that's primarily on the sample team that features it, and it's been doing great. It's significantly better than all the niche shit in C+ and in my opinion is better than everything in B outside of maybe Registeel and Hatterene which should rise anyway.

B -> B+
I've been shredded enough times by Specs Togekiss to respect it but I think the offensive Nasty Plot sets I've seen on the ladder w/ Air Slash + Flamethrower are sick. Nothing really likes to handle those for any extended period of time outside of Chansey and the defensive utility it proves as a Hydreigon switch-in is great.

C -> B
Why did we drop this again? We're not acting like Scizor is some death knell right? It can't switch into this thing reliably at all and Chansey usage is extremely down too. vivalospride has been fiending the ladder with a Specs Vanilluxe team that shows how lethal this mon still is. It shouldn't have dropped imo.

A- -> B+
Tenta hasn't really gotten worse. It's just been ranked too high for a pretty long time. Doesn't really check anything specifically except for Prim which is admittedly nice but not enough for a slot in A-, and while it's def annoying to switch into I don't think it's really on par with mons like Swampert or Rotom-W as evidenced by its low usage. B+ fits it way better.

B -> C+
Honestly it just sucks outside of HO and is hard to fit even on HO. Doesn't deserve to be ranked alongside or even above HO staples like Cloyster and Froslass in my opinion.
 
Hey there. I would like to nominate Charizard to C. UR -> C

1652159967594.png


As a sun player, I have been laddering with Charizard and its been putting in some work and often pressurising opponents into uncomfortable switching. I hit my peak in UU at 1566 with this sun team https://pokepast.es/3587bffc8e9b8c5a . I know Charizard has a nasty stealth rock weakness and needs support but with Hatterene and Excadrill, I've often found ways to keep rocks off the field which allows safe entry for Charizard in the sun and a free kill most of the time. Specs fire blast from Charizard in the sun 2hkoes the entire tier, Weatherball is so spammable unless the opponent has a Hippowdon, who is 2hkoed by specs Fire blast anyway. Only Chansey and Nihilego, I feel are safe switch ins most of the time. But Nihilego can get smashed by scorching sands and so can flash fire users like Chanderlure.

Here are some calcs vs fat

252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 340-402 (48.3 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO. Also this calc is so frightening.
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon in Sun: 379-447 (96.1 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 248 HP / 168+ SpD Mandibuzz in Sun: 390-460 (92.1 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 168+ SpD Mandibuzz in Sun: 432-508 (102.1 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Scorching Sands vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Nihilego in Sun: 480-568 (126.6 - 149.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Charizard Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Swampert in Sun: 265-312 (65.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 SpA Choice Specs Charizard Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 211-249 (50.2 - 59.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Even Max spdef Hippowdon is 2hkoed by Fire Blast and most Hippowdon aren't max spdef so Hippo cant come in on Charizard to change the weather and neither can it come in on Venusaur too.


A phys def Hippo can die to an overheat with some chip damage or a high roll - 252 SpA Choice Specs Charizard Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 369-435 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO



Here are some replays with Charizard

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1569869159 - Goes absolutely ballistic in the sun knocking out a Cresselia from 88 and doing 82 to a Gyarados - My peak
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1569865541-6xleslrc7deky6a5l4ckwx89g69osjypw - Won the weather war against sand and Charizard okod the Mandibuzz. Mandibuzz was forced to u-turn to prevent a free Zard entry.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1569851728-97723238ofn3czxoteui1egw10g4ybhpw - Forced a switch out despite the opponent having 2 naturally bulky fire resists in Slowking and Hydreigon. Did some incredible damage to Hydreigon and Slowking with specs weatherball in the sun
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1557659591-c50w4zg64k1246g4rb0yn78z345sb4epw - 2hkoed spdef slowking with slight chip
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1557650418-4rxjxmgtctf2wrzq5km7hp7hqp8j9c5pw -Okod Hippo in the sun with weatherball
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1554781039-tcuc64joogs6633c7bit1ty6fghfm7apw - Okod Moltres with specs overheat in the sun
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1570202849-7cerwfyqz855igir7qf6up54uostkf6pw - Did an incredible 60 in the sun to a bulky Primarina and would have 2hkoed the Hippo
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1562644243-luhq637laxbfhdubs1syh7wv3ezv3prpw - Inserted incredible offensive pressure and forced uncomfortable sacks
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1562644243-luhq637laxbfhdubs1syh7wv3ezv3prpw - Spammed weatherball in the sun
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1485888055-y4x3xzgebdxphvh8kgbbjrexhr4i7nvpw - This replay is 4 months ago but here Zard is able to use Skarmory as a point of entry and gives it an opportunity to fire off sun boosted attacks
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1528355510-v5s9o97rci75ib1ki8gxy6odwyhing2pw - Killed cm Hatterene who was at +2 spdef
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1570427856 - Gave me vital damage on Nihilego

Solarbeam is also an option to ko Primarina and Slowking in the sun. Charizard certainly has its issues like lack of longevity, stealth rock weakness and hazard support needed but its incredible power in the sun + above average speed tier makes it worthy of a spot in the VR as it punches huge holes and eliminates fat which allows Venusaur to clean up late game.

I would like to also nominate Venusaur and Torkoal to B-

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I personally dont think Hippowdon's presence has totally knocked off sun as Hippo cant come in on Venusaur at all. Venusaur can often sweep with one growth in the sun and come back later to clean up late game once Zard or Darm punch big holes. Torkoal has its issues of passivity but its a good check to Zarude and Cobalion. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1569850668-bmsa0bq482dwc2ign2563fuav5eqpbapw . It tanked a thousand arrows and burned the zydog which allowed a Venusaur sweep.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1570411307 - Venusaur being able to sweep and clean
 
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