Resource SS ZU Viability Rankings - Update @67 [Locked due to DLC 2]

[Ginger Princess]

Gonna make some noms uwu
Dugtrio UR -> B I've only seen Dugtrio used 2-3 times, but it has interesting qualities in the ZU tier - one of the fastest mons allowed, STAB ground coverage and 100 base attack, with rocks. Has decent matchups against other hazard setters, like Vespiquen, able to offensively threaten with Rock Slide.

Hattrem UR -> B+/A- Hattrem is very good in a metagame where TSpikes are extremely valuable. Its pretty good defensively, and Life Dew, despite only healing 25%, is good enough in a metagame where offensive threats are few and far between.

Grookey A -> B+/B With the ban of Swoobat, the need for Grassy Terrain doesn't seem to be necessary, as there is no longer an excellent Grassy Seed user. Grass STAB by itself is pretty much outclassed by Gourgeist and Trevenant, and defensively hindered severely by mons like Klang, Vespiquen, and Vullaby.

Hippopotas A -> A- Putting Hippopotas at the same rank of mons like Pikachu, Mime-G, Vespiquen and Trevenant seems a bit strange. It sets up Sand, which is an excellent deterrent for Shedinja, and it has access to Rocks, but offensively its still underwhelming, and Rocks in general isn't too effective when its best targets are always running HDB.

Shiinotic B+ -> A- Itemless Shiinotic currently serves an excellent defensive niche, stopping Pokemon like Machoke and Poltergeist users like Gourgeist and Trevenant dead in its tracks, if not running an item. This, plus techs like Strength Sap, Spore, Fairy-stab are all amazing qualities that allow it to always serve a purpose.

Machoke B+ -> A- Defensive Sleeptalk Machoke is one of the best answers to both stall and offense, being able to reststall on Pokemon like Pyukumuku who would otherwise prove extremely difficult to break through, and easily tank basically any threat in a pinch and threaten with a knock off/Dynamic Punch

Duosion C -> B-/B Duosion kind of serves the roll of the premier stored power sweeper now that Swoobat has left the tier. If it gets in after Shedinja or Dark-types have been handled, there are hardly any threats that can deal enough damage to beat Duosion in Mid/Late Game. Its immunity to TSpikes also plays a critical role in its viability, able to use Toxic against an opponent to prevent statuses like Sleep from being used against it.

Shedinja C -> B-/B/B+ ZU is perhaps the only tier where Shedinja can serve a valuable defensive niche, essentially forcing most of the viable Pokemon in the metagame to run some kind of coverage option. It provides pressure on Volt Switch Pikachu/Raichu, allowing you to get a Pokemon weak to Electric out of danger in a pinch. They are best used when saved for late game, if threats that have been revealed to not have an attack for Shedinja are the mons left standing.

Torracat C -> B- Fire Stab is very good in the ZU metagame, with only Stonjourner really resisting it with Pokemon ranked A and above. Its ability to pivot with Parting Shot is still valuable, and the base 90 Speed tier cannot go ignored.

 

[Eris]

hello, i'm pretty new to zu so my propositions and opinion may not be very accurate but, I have been playing a lot lately and these are my thoughts on the metagame, hopefully this can open a perspective from a newcomer stand point or something

rises
A to S rank
S rank might be a reach to many but Grapploct is probably one of my favourite wall breaker in this tier, this Pokemon just has an edge above the rest of the metagame in its great versatility and offensive power output. I have been maining the BU + 3 attacks set and found that this Pokemon doesn't have a lot of defensive counterplay. Common walls like Vespiqueen, Shiinotic and Hattrem are all pressured heavily by it and always fear coming in on Ice Punch or Brutal Swing. This is also reinforced by the less common set, Octolock. While more oriented in facing bulkier teams, this set has great use as well in breaking down walls like Hippopotas, Ivysaur and even Pyukumuku. This only leaves room for offensive counterplay which is less reliable as it is really easy to wear down threats into Sucker Punch range, especially with how common Toxic Spikes are at the moment.

A to A+
I really like this Pokemon and I think it's become a staple on many teams because of the amazing utility and role compression it offers. As a Specially Defensive wall it has a lot of importance by checking most Psychic-types like Mr.Mime and Beheeyem while also pressuring Grass-types like Bellossom but it really is mostly used for its team support. Vespiquen is probably the tier's primary hazard clearer in my eyes due to its ability in pressuring hazard removers/preventers like Hattrem and hazard setters like Hippopotas and Palpitoad by not being threatened by their coverage or, even status since Vespiquen commonly runs aromatherapy. It is also the tier's primar Toxic Spikes setter which at the moment in my eyes is probably the best form of hazard.

UR to A
Magic Bounce is a great asset to offensive teams and Hattrem really excels in this metagame by being able to reliably check all Stealth Rock setters such as Stonjourner, Palpitoad and Hippopotas. I'm very found of the Nuzzle, Giga Drain/Psychic, Rest, Sleep Talk set and I think it works really well in this metagame due to how bulky it is. Nuzzle is also great for pressuring offensive threats like Mr.Mime who may try to switch in and take advantage of Hattrem's passivity at times.

B- to A-
Heavily slept on, I think this Pokemon has great potential, I have mainly used it with Substitute, Pain Split, Flamethrower, Hex which was on a team given to me by Cash and honestly this Pokemon works wonders. Combined with Toxic Spikes there are not a lot of Pokemon who can reliably switch into it, especially when your sub is on. Great offensive typing and Special Attack combined with good resistance and solid Speed tier, people should use it more! Other than this set I still think sub cm, specs and scarf are also really good options but I haven't used them as much to be honest.

other than this I agree with a few noms that have been made here,


These two should definitely rise a rank, I see them as front runners in the volturn archetype, they pressure a lot of cores and do it well. Pikachu's access to double priority in Fake Out + Extreme Speed, Knock Off and Volt Switch is all it needs to wear down its opponents, especially with how common NFEs are here with Ivysaur, Hattrem and Klang rising. Surf is still really good but I just haven't seen it as much and I don't really deem it as worth when you pair it with Silvally. Silvally has more room for versatility where it can be Swords Dance Multi-Attack set or just Special pivot, I think both have their ups and downs but overall both are really good wallbreakers and should rise a rank.


Also agree with these Pokemon rising, many have touched upon them but I think they all have great utility beyond their offensive presence. While Choice Specs Whiscash gets a lot of praise I still think bulky sets with Toxic and Future Sight are really good, overall it's a nice soft check for a large variety of the metagame, notably Electric-types and a really good wall breaker that threatens a lot of bulky cores teams tend to build around. Ivysaur is also a really good wall with offensive pressure and good speed tier for what it does, Knock Off + Toxic is always a good combination and not many Pokemon like to switch into its stab since none really resist it other than Klang, definitely a Pokemon that deserves more mentions but I wouldn't rate it S rank yet like uhuhuhu7 has. Machoke also is really good, I think Grapploct overshadows it quite much but Machoke still has use as a Physically Defensive wall but I've also seen a lot of Power-Up Punch variants which are great wallbreakers, you get to pass your way through a team really easily after being at +2 and Machoke isn't ohko'd by a lot of wall as well.

drops

Agree with most drops that were mentioned above, Grookey, Palpitoad, Carkol, Dusclops and Zweilous especially as they aren't really as viable as the VR depicts them, despite Grookey being somewhat of an exception as a terrain setter, still Swoobat ban nerfed that enough for it to drop a few ranks.

I haven't really used any of these so I may be out of line but just by skimming over I think the VR extends itself a bit too much in lower ranks. I think there are Pokemon that repeat themselves in terms of roles and are generally outclassed. Pokemon like Whirlipede and Trubbish both being ranked for example, for I believe the same niche in Spikes + Toxic Spikes? Other example would be Maractus which doesn't really do anything Trevenant or Gourgeist can't do whether offensively or defensively. There may be more that I can't spot but otherwise I think Pokemon like Swirlix, Hatenna or Natu could be unranked as they're all clearly outclassed.

 

[5gen]

To make it official, the VR will be locked Sunday night. Sooner than I mentioned in ZU's Discord because the 23rd is a little too soon and this gives council more time to test and discuss things. So, everyone has until Sunday night to make any new noms.

 

[risin_glory]

Phew, my post is finally complete after almost a week. And since there have been a lot of additions since the first time I posted it, I have reposted so as to let everyone check the additions out.

grookey: A-->B Grookey lost the only reason to reach A tier with the ban of Swoobat and Musharna, the backbones of gspam. Now it may be said that trevenant/gourgeist-l/gothtelle etc still benefit from the gterraina nd can cause some serious ruckus, it is just not as effective as it was with swoo/mush. As a result, grookey and its niche should go down.

Hippopotas: A-->A- Hippopotas may be physically bulky and have the sand chipping power alongwith utiliy and recovery with slack off/toxic/sr/whirlwind but its low speed/eviolite dependence/not a very high special bulk, all together contribute enough to take it to A segment, but only to A-. it isn't as amazing a mon atleast with the entry of hattrem, to be a A mon.

Mr. Mime-G: A-->A- Mr. Mime-G still has the same trouble as always. It needs several extra moveslots to accommodate Spin/NP/Freeze dry/Psychic/Focus BLast/Shadow ball. Which means u either need to remove a coverage, or a stab, or the breaking power provider np, or the amazing utility of spin, making its potential and worth of an A mon degrade. Also not to mention, this meta is very close to a klang meta now.

Stoutland: B-->A I was actually surprised to see a big wincon down in B tier honestly. With the insane atk stat, Avg and yet great speed, nice bulk and diversified sets from banded or scarfed scrappy sweeper to sand rush sweeper to substitute/protect/howl with last resort scrappy, it is an outstanding mon nd honesty a wincon. Even the super hardy SpD klang gets 3hkoed by last resort of +1 stout or 2hkoed by +2. There are literally no switchins to its scrappy sets. I think since it has limited counterplays and is an unmatched midgame or late game sweeper, it definitely deserves an A.

Vespiquen: A-->A- Similar to how hippopotas's special bulk pulls it down to A-, Vespiquen's physical bulk pulls it down to A-. A simple non stab non atk invested -atk nature gourgeist 2hkos vespiquen with rock slide. No doubt the special bulk helps against stuff like mimes and also sets hazard easily against hattrem making it A section worthy, but the phy def side and low speed again pulls it back to just A-.

Vullaby: A-->B+ Vullaby was the best defogger at some point, but now its simply outclassed by vespiquen and that too in a huge manner cuz vullaby is evio dependant ad cannot manage running boots to avoid getting heavy chips which ultimately result in its comparatively early death. Also vespiquen is aided with its own hazards and aromatherapy.So, I think vullaby and vespiquen should not share the same rank.

Zweilous: A- --> B+ The entry of innumerous psychic and ghost types in the tier highly benefitted the dark types. Above that hustle+band or even just hustle is a very high power output, which makes this poorly design mon really good. But then its ability hustle itself also pulls it back a little with that accuracy loss. Not to mention the main reason for zweillous to rise, swoobat, is now gone for good and zweillous should now return to its well deserved position, i.e., B+.

Palitoad: A- --> B Palpitoad is honestly no way deserving of A-. It is highly weak to the predominant grass types of zu/evio dependant/ and even hattrem has now entered to push it down the vr.

Charjabug: B-->B+ Charjabug is our best webber and a great pivot. While it may be said that hattrem now punishes it, I have 2 points in its favour. 1) We have a palpitoad...literally palpitoad in A- right now...whats wrong with my boy charjabug to be B+. 2) With some gaming around with x-scissor and vswitch hattrem is easily very easily weakened enough to web it around.
0 Atk Charjabug Skitter Smack vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Eviolite Hattrem: 84-98 (26.4 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Charjabug Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Hattrem: 42-49 (13.2 - 15.4%) -- possible 7HKO
0 Atk Charjabug X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Eviolite Hattrem: 96-114 (30.1 - 35.8%) -- 25.8% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Hattrem Mystical Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Charjabug: 80-96 (25.1 - 30.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Hattrem Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Charjabug: 73-87 (22.9 - 27.3%) -- 52% chance to 4HKO

Oranguru: B-->B+ Oranguru has a very good defensive typing in normal/psychic and its bulk makes even knock just a strong avg move in front of it. Its coverage in psychic/shadow ball/focus blast is pretty amazing as well. It also gets its ultra breaking power form NP. It also has other coverage moves in energy ball and thunderbolt. Its only demerits are its speed and low acc of focus blast. It is also a good specs/trick user and tr setter. Due to the following reasons, it is a very very deserving mon for the B+ spot.

Lampent: B- --> B+ Lampent is a very strong and versatile mon. It is so the best offensive fire type we have. Under webs, its speed is pretty avg and usabe as it outspeeds even silvally/linoone-g/lopunny. In the webs team it can easily run the hdb/evio sets with sub or cm or even choice specs with trick. Not just that, but its scarf set is pretty amazing as well. Over to that, the ghost/fire/grass coverage is insane. I personally prefer webs + scarf as it outspeeds almost ever mon in the tier even if the opponent is hdb. (even beats ston's every set in webs+scarf). All of it is I guess worth enough reason to gie this Victorian spooky fire lamp a little oil and make it rise up the vr.

Vibrava: B- --> C Vibrava has only 2 jobs in the meta. 1) a defogger pivot, in which it is heavily outclassed and 2) Being a ston check and counter, where again it s outcassed.
Now I do agree that only a very few mons like vibrava and utility wartortle can compact the job of hazard removal, ston checking and pivoting together, IDT vibrava is good enough cuz of it's stats. Like even its stats are overall less than torracat. Like if role compressing is the only factor of viability, tentacool should be high ranked too cuz it has good spd, has utility of spin/haze/liquid ooze/tspikes etc. But similar to how tentacool ain't good enough of high rank cuz of bad phy def and being outclassed in spinning and hazard setting, I think vibrava is overall outclassed and a burden to be kept alive in a team, a waste of slot, hence deserving a lower rank.

Eiscue: C+-->B- Eiscue is a good sweeper and has pretty huge option in the fourth slot of coverage in liquation/zen headbutt/reversal. It is definitely a little hard to set up and needs proper timing for it, but once setup, can pose a serious threat and turn the tables. Apart from the conventional sub drum salac set, it can run the bulky stall set with sub/hail/protect/a stab. All of it is pretty good niche to make it a B- mon.

Natu: C+--> UR Natu was a so so magic bouncer and wish porter cuz of its roc weakness and low bulk overall. And now that even hattrem has entered, I don't see any point in having it ranked.

Togetic: C+-->B Togetic was our one of the best defoggers when it was here before rising to pu. And even now it functions neck to neck with vullaby, and even has a little similarity with vespiquen in having heal bell. While vullaby is just physically bulky, togetic I overall bulky in both def and SpD. Hence, if it isn't rising to vullaby level or higher, it should atleast be really closely ranked with vullaby.

:Farfetch Farfetch'd: C-->C+ The star of July, crashing to C tier, such a sad fate. Though there have been obvious reasons for the decay of its viability, I think its strong priority of FI/none evio dependency/ability to run lo/band/hdb and strong stabs alongwith decent atk stat, it should be in the highest ranks of C tier.

Maractus: C-->C+ Maractus is a decent stall mon and also a pretty good dent maker in opponent's team with the 3 turn sun power in solar beam/weather ball coverage that with lo and 252+ SpA ohkos a big part of tier and makes the opponent sacrifice their team members. Or the stall sets can just force the set up mons or just choice item HO mons to switch around and build pressure on opponent. Due to thes reasons I feel it should aslo be in the heights of C , i.e., C+.

Torracat: C--> C+ Torracat is our only viable offensive fire type apart from lampent and is pretty avg. Though its best movepool as per longeivity is Special where it only ha fire moves, bringing it to the C category, its fast taunting and pivoting alongwith its decent offensive stats, boosted with NP are enough selling points to take it a little up to C+ or B-.

Sudowoodo: C- -->B/B- Many people believe that sudo is just the bad version of ston, which is completely false. It is a good rocker, which can easily punish the hattrem trying to switch in with its ultra powered head smash which has no recoil and a stab over it. Its access to moves like sucker punch and wood hammer make it very viable as well. It is that powerhouse of a team that even being slow makes an immense pressure on that opponent. Now even though most times people may choose ston over sudo making its B rank questionable, I think it could still go upto B- atleast. But should definitely not be int he C category.

Honedge: UR-->C+ or B- I don't really know why this mon ever went to ur in the first place. But anyways, I think its time to give it its rightful position. It has great physical bulk, and even though its special bulk aint too high, its like stonjourner, where its hp covers up a bit. Above that it has good attack stat and awesome coverage. The stab priority of SS and breaking power of SD is notable too. Now I will just add the replays and calcs related to this.

252+ Atk Gourgeist-Large Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Honedge: 212-252 (72.1 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 216+ Atk Honedge Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gourgeist-Large: 170-204 (58.4 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO {this is considering gourg switches in, so it has already done 1 sd}

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1187294409-1soefm3zepfg2bdseojbsdonzn6wwd3pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186742460
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186726619
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186649756
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1187817899

Wailord: UR-->C This gen wailord has been abused badly, even though its a spectacular mon. Both scarfed and webs+specs sets are amazing. Apart from these, there are also the stall sets that are highly effective.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186742460
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186726619
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186649756
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186728396
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186723755
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1184960190-iwhjctg7zu07ggotdl9m453ek17rfdipw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186764853-7931g1vvktr72qrrc4vji851klrmmvopw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1187929167
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1187922119
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188504742
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1187922119

Onix: UR-->C+ With its insane physical bulk paired up with body press, it is an insane mon. Not to mention it is also speed tied with stonjourner, that it can also check and is a fast taunter and rocker. With its super powerful pody press it ohkos Persian/stoutland/lopunny and 2hkos lickitung/raichu(70-80%)/Stonjourner/Klang.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186742460
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186726619
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186649756
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186728396
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186723755
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1184960190-iwhjctg7zu07ggotdl9m453ek17rfdipw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1186764853-7931g1vvktr72qrrc4vji851klrmmvopw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1187817899
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1187929167
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1187922119
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1187929167
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1187922119

Hattrem: A- A boon to zu because it has magic bounce and is bulkier than natu and hattenna that were like way too fragile. Considering how big an impact hazards have on the game, their deflection/healing wish support/nuzzle/coverage moves like giga drain/rest these feats make it a very good mon. Only thing its still kinda avg bulk mon and slow on that with rest as only recovery, also evio dependant and weak to common types in zu. Thus it aint worthy of A or A+, but definitely of A-.

Dugtrio: A- Duggy is a very good addition due to its good 100 base atk stat, coverage moves, excellent speed, sr and memento, toxic stalling etc. the various sets of dugtrio namely soft sand/toxic sr stall/choice band HO/LO hyper offense are all excellent. Its only demerit is being way to fragile, making revenge killing with priority moves and scarfers pretty easy.

Carvanha: UR-->C Carvanha has a small but significant niche in the meta. It has decent atk stat and a great speed boost ability.Being fragile is its merit, not demerit, as it can easily destiny bond with its high speed. Also if the opponent reads destiny bond and uses a status move or switches, you have the protect to just get the safe dbond turn again.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188436687
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188431141-egd70y1awi0fw1v3pt765z7p2dyy969pw

Tentacool: UR-->C It is just another good spinner+tspikes absorber along with role compression of knock/haze/spin/hazard/tspike absorption. It is quite decently bulky as I will show in the calcs below.
252 SpA Mr. Mime-Galar Psychic vs. 252 HP / 84 SpD Eviolite Tentacool: 140-168 (49.2 - 59.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Beartic Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Tentacool: 142-168 (50 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1189656226
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1189649870
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1189635637
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1189579135
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188954599
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1189620427-2qsnx38ltwo5n72jj1688hf8qdnpg5rpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1189536099-c4hvbr6itg4v81a7ggu25s5e0zb4muapw

Mienfoo: UR-->B-/C+ An awesome mon that has similar bulk as Persian and with regenerator it gets cool recovery. SD and CM variants are pretty awesome apart from the conventional fake/cc/knock/uturn. Anon webs, sd variant can create quite a ruckus cuz of its good speed and coverage.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188407693
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188374033
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188431141-egd70y1awi0fw1v3pt765z7p2dyy969pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188359055-jzurclukbd6c7lfejm5e4qxshua3fwzpw

Magnemite: UR--> C+ Slow and bad bulk, yet amazing. Sturdy ability+ choice specs or analytic choice specs both hit damn hard. Can fit on tems rather easily and do some good cleaning.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188374033
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188316167
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188359055-jzurclukbd6c7lfejm5e4qxshua3fwzpw

Rufflet: UR-> C+ Rufflet with hustle scarf or sheer force scarf or even bu evio works amazing. Has good coverage and decent offensive power.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188508319
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188374033
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188316167

Lickitung: C- --> B- an awesome Sp wall and wish passer. After som team support and chipping of opponens team, its stall power can even lead to a sweep.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188508319
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188374033
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188316167
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188359055-jzurclukbd6c7lfejm5e4qxshua3fwzpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1189620427-2qsnx38ltwo5n72jj1688hf8qdnpg5rpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1189536099-c4hvbr6itg4v81a7ggu25s5e0zb4muapw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188970427

Koffing: UR--> B- this thingis an awesome tspikes user and physically bulky as hell. Checks ston too.
252 Atk Life Orb Stonjourner Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Koffing: 138-164 (48.5 - 57.7%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO(at this point will-o-wisp just destroys ston)
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Koffing: 204-242 (71.8 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188508319
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188374033
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188316167
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188359055-jzurclukbd6c7lfejm5e4qxshua3fwzpw

 

[Tuthur]

from UR to C+. Slowpoke is an amazing slow pivots for offensive teams. The combination of Teleport and Regenerator allows it to safely bring on the field frail but extremely threatening attackers such as Farfetch'd, Pikachu, and Mr. Mimes. It also serves as a safe switch-in to Grapploct and Stonjourner, that are two of the most difficult attackers to switch into atm.

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8zu-515978
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1189763165-l3i4fp12rlik9l1wzrwfd5fh018gm90pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1190025687-tar2d9xa8lbpfumi8iutbllu6khcsqgpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1190064819

 

[Toto]

Drilbur UR > C
Drilbur is great lead for hyper offense builds in the current meta. Drilbur always gets rocks up thanks to mold breaker and can keep rocks of your side thanks to rapid spin. Rapid spin giving a +1 speed boost is great as it can outspeed the opposing mon and then spam steath rock. It can also toxic common mons that resist or are immune to eq such as Gourgeist and vespiquen

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1187842184
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1188492971

 

[missangelic]

Super late to the VR. party but hey lets go. I'm like sliding in at the last second so this will mostly just be noms I support or disagree with rather than my own, but I think more mons still deserve to be spoken on.

SUPPORT

Gourgeist: A+ to A

Forced into running more defensive, and Banded is mostly covered for by a lot of meta things right now. It's definitely a little less good Post-Swoobat Ban and Grassy Terrain decline.

Grapploct: A to A+

Octolock has grown on me a ton as a set, Bulk Up is one of our best sweepers, and Grapploct's coverage beats pretty much every mon in the tier. Grapp had the month long of experimentation that it needed to really establish itself as one of the top meta picks, and I think A+ should reflect that.

Grookey: A to B+

I'm basically an echo of an echo at this point but Grookey is Grassy Terrain teams, and Grassy Terrain teams are not as good as they once were when Swoobat was here. Itemless defensive Grasses are still good right now, which really blanks a lot of Grassy Terrain's remaining abusers like Trevenant and Banded Gourg have to be played really well in order to succeed. Grassy Terrain may not be as inconsistent as Beartic Hail, but it's getting to that point.

Mime-G: A to A+

:clown:
Mime-G's offensive utility is so great right now by beating the best Toxic Spikes setter and the most popular rockers. Carkol has been a ladder fave for a bit, but Gime genuinely offers way more potential with Spin alone than Carkol, and Wartortle has also declined with the advent of Toxic Spikes and Ivysaur nearly everywhere.

Pikachu: A to A+

Pikachu is just so good as an offensive pick on pretty much every team, and it's coverage and priority are what define the meta. Fast and physically frail threats struggle, and many more defensive teams must run some sort of defensive Grass type in order to mitigate its potential to cleave teams apart. It's always capable of forcing progress with Knock and Volt, and some games can even come down to who preserves Fake Out on Pikachu or if you win the E-Speed tie. Pikachu's constant showing in ZUPL II is really what cements this idea for me.

Vespiquen: A to A+ (maybe even S)

Vespiquen is effectively meta-defining as a support Pokemon. Nearly every team type save for Hyper Offense really wants the Defog and Toxic Spike potential that comes with a great bulky pivot into whatever they need. Many players at ZUPL brought Vespiquen nearly every week, and it maintains an excellent winrate on that.

Vullaby: A to A-

Vullaby is thoroughly now no longer the star Defogger of ZU and has some of its utility diminished by Hattrem now blocking hazards in some cases. Vullaby offers great role compression still, though it could be described as mostly less than mandatory on teams when building. There's a number of other Dark types present that offer different utility against many of the Psychics of the meta, and Vullaby isn't always the best in that category.

Mr. Mime: A- to A

:clownclassic:
Mime can shred teams, and many teams often fail to build properly to account for how threatening Mime can be to them. Between set unpredictability and how it can either wallbreak or clean, Mime threatens a lot of the balance builds lately that have hinged on Ivysaur/Klang/Machoke.

Palpitoad: A- to B+

Palpitoad just isn't as consistent of an anti-Stonjourner rocker when Hattrem can fully shut it down. With that, Toxic Spikes also tend to be better in the meta, and Palpitoad has no way to dodge hazards or recover HP to check Stonjourner later in the battle. Plenty of teams are running Ivysaur and a number of other defensive Grasses in response to Raichu, which has further lowered some of its splashability. B+ is a much better fit for it.

Silvally-Ice: A- to A

Icevally really appreciates this meta with better hazard removal and management and many high tier Pokemon that can't take its coverage. Icevally is really great at punishing Vespiquen, Ivysaur, Gourgeist, Hippopotas, and friends for stacking ice weaknesses on teams and running mostly just Klang as an ice resist. As such, I think it deserves a rise.

Torracat: C to C+

Torracat's in a pretty good place as an offensive pivot against stuff like Klang, Vespiquen, and Ivysaur, but it's still an offensive pivot that's weak to all hazards and takes extra from rocks. I do think it's underrated and far more useful than other C level mons like Cufant or Drakloak, but B- would be an oversell at the moment.

Ivysaur: B+ to A-

Ivysaur is probably one of the more splashable Pokemon right now for just how much utility it can fit into one little slot. Toxic Spikes are popular at the moment with high Vespiquen usage, and Ivysaur provides immediate relief to teams that run it and suffer from T-Spikes. That and Ivysaur doesn't let Stonjourner switch in for free while being a great defensive Grass that can soft check a lot in the meta. Ivysaur just tends to make teams so much better and helps progress the match generally in the favor of whoever brings it.

Machoke: B+ to A-

Restalk Machoke has become really prominent once more for its ability to really check how dangerous Grapploct has become. It's also a pretty decent check to the maintained dominance of Stonjourner and the rising dominance of Klang considering neither can safely switch with it around. Machoke also generally does not mind Toxic Spikes being common in the meta, either mostly ignoring its effects or even benefitting.

Wartortle: B+ to B- (should go to B)

Toxic Spikes (feel like I've said this a bajillion times) have become much better, which makes Wartortle a lesser spinner. It's still okayish against stuff like Stonjourner and Klang, but it invites in the very common defensive Grasses while not offering much in the realm of reliability. Sweeper sets have also really fallen off considering that at +2 Wartortle still isn't breaking everything it wants to. It's still fine in the B rank, and I don't think it deserves dropping into B-, but it has lost some of its luster.

Whiscash: B+ to A-

Specs Whiscash is legitimately one of the best mons right now. Whiscash is an extremely effective offensive check against stuff like Stonjourner and Klang, with Specs' coverage pretty much blasting through the entire tier. Whiscash is pretty much our best Ground type at the moment (Hippopotas be damned), so I think it deserves to be in the A ranks for how much great offensive pressure it brings.

REJECT

Klang: A+ to S

Klang is an amazing Pokemon, and its Iron Defense set is a huge rising threat in the meta right now. However, Klang is not the most splashable Pokemon to put on every team, nor it is always the end all be all of setup sweepers. Bulky Grounds are big in the meta right now, and Klang tends to be checked or phazed by many of the ones that have remained. Stall teams always have an answer to it with both Dusclops and Pyukumuku. Grapploct and Lampent are also great options against it. I think Klang is absolutely deserving of its A+ position right now and is the best choice in that rank, but its other sets can be hit or miss, and its coverage can let it down.

Zweilous: A- to B+

Legitimately, I think Zweilous is super underrated and underutilized in this current meta. The Restalk set is amazing at just racking up chip against switch-ins, and it's one of the hardest stops to most Psychics, which I firmly believe are making a resurgence. Though Zweilous is definitely a good Grassy Terrain check, I think many people underestimate how surprisingly effective Zweilous is as a Dark-type. Zweilous works really well with Vespiquen, and also isn't really harmed by the Toxic Spikes meta on its Restalk set. Crunch still hits like a dump truck and Zwei has very few switch-ins save for Shiinotic (which arguably is not great right now). I cannot stress enough just how much Zweilous can contribute to the team as a tank that can go either specially defensive or physically defensive while providing a stopgap to many setup threats right now. Yes, Hustle misses can be really annoying, but the rewards for hitting Crunch aren't the only thing you should be using Zweilous for considering its amazing defensive typing and utility.

Shiinotic: B+ to A-

IMO, Shiinotic is not as consistent as it was in the previous meta for blanking a lot of banded Grassy Terrain abusers. Ivysaur is much superior as a defensive Grass for absorbing Toxic Spikes, and itemless Gourgiest-L plays similarly while getting to spread burns instead of trying to Strength Sap while running tons of HP investment or not being able to punish other Grasses for switching in. Shiinotic just ends up being kind of a mediocre compromise between other defensive Grasses for the sake of a Fairy typing that arguably isn't even that good right now seeing as Klang is doing really well. It's fine for checking Machoke, but Machoke itself isn't dominating the meta right now seeing as its Restalk Tank set is more to deal with Grapploct instead. Shiinotic is still pretty good, and B+ is the place for it, but it is not material for the A ranks.

Beartic: B- to B (stay B-)

Beartic has made some good showings in how potent it can be in ZUPL II and just how much raw power it brings, but I don't think Beartic Hail is a particularly consistent strategy, and neither is Rain. Beartic almost always mandates needing to bring Vulpix-Alola, which takes up a slot and can be awful in a matchup where the opponent brings Mime-G (read: best offensive spinner in the meta and a great special attacker on top of that). I don't think a rise to B would be warranted, and I firmly believe Beartic's rank should be representative of where Vulpix-Alola's rank is.

Vibrava: B- to C (could go C+)

Vibrava hasn't really won the battle to be Stonjourner's best check considering its Defog set is usually in the hands of Vespiquen, who is capable of setting Toxic Spikes. It's still fine, but I think it tends to fill smaller and smaller holes in teams as the meta adjusts to Stonjourner and friends. However, I don't think it's as garbo as something like Sliggoo.

Mudbray: C+ to B-/B (stay C+)

Mudbray's pretty good as a check to Iron Defense Klang, Stonjourner, and Pikachu lacking Surf (and can still trade Eviolite) in one slot, but Hattrem's drop compromises Mudbray's ability to really keep hazards up or punish switch-ins with status. C+ feels like it's Mudbray's place to stay considering its place in the meta has been mostly net zero with the Grassy Terrain decline with Klang/Ston/Pika rising and Hattrem's drop with Whiscash, Gime, and Toxic Spikes getting better. Mudbray also really struggles to choose between Rest and Roar given that its phazing is so helpful for Klang and Grapploct but it otherwise has no ability to restore HP while being vulnerable to Toxic Spikes. C+ is the perfect fit for an antimeta pick that requires quite a bit of team support, has to choose its fourth move carefully, and matches up poorly against top meta stuff like Ivy/Mime-G/Icevally.

Natu: C+ to C-/UR (should go to C)

I think Natu has definitely become worse with the addition of Hattrem to the tier seeing as Hattrem doesn't immediately fall apart after taking a hit. However, going straight from C+ to UR is way too severe for what Natu can offer a team. Unlike Hattrem, Natu is immune to Toxic Spikes, making it way less punishing if you predict improperly against Vespiquen (esp considering Vespi really threatens Hattrem and is pretty much everywhere right now). Natu also has much more reliable recovery than Hatt to make it less passive and is less strapped for slots because of that. C would be a great rank for it right now seeing as it doesn't have the title of sole Magic Bounce mon anymore (Hatenna notwithstanding), but saying it's on par with something like Marill or even so worthless that it should be unranked is just hyperbolic.

Shedinja: C to B-/B/B+

Shedinja is definitely a cool mon for the way it can blank certain picks like Gothitelle/Duosion/Gime in one slot, but I don't think it's anywhere near consistent enough to be a B rank mon. A ton of top threats in the meta right now have some easy way to hit it (Ston, Gourg, Vespi, Grapp, Pika, Trev, Vull, Frax, Zwei all do), and Knock or Poltergeist are givens on each team. Shedinja simply does not have staying power in most matches to really be forcing out some of the biggest threats at the moment, and I think this should be reflected in it staying at C. I could see it going to C+ considering that Klang's best set doesn't run Toxic as much and some Hatt/Raichu/Icevally sets don't have a way of hitting it, but Shedinja is just too risky as a pick to warrant being in the B ranks.

Whirlipede: C+ to B- (stay C+)

I don't think Whirlipede has become any better as a Spikes lead. Solrock and Dunsparce may be more niche hazard setters but they offer utility beyond hazards. Whirlipede can't even break Hattrem, so giving it a rise just would not make sense given the development of the meta.

Maractus: C to C+ (stay C)

It's a hazard setter that can beat Hatt (Knock into Leaf Storm). A Sunny Day set might not even be just a gimmick right now given that many people are running scarf Ston as speed control. Maractus struggles to really beat any Defoggers still (Vespi, Vull, Vally) or even spinners (Cark, Mime-G). Maractus contributes not much defensively to the team and sometimes doesn't even break through many of the defensive Pokemon in the meta (Klang, Gourgeist, Zweilous) while letting sweepers like Bellossom get set up safely.

Lopunny: C- to UR

I don't really enjoy Lopunny, but I also don't think it deserves to be Unranked. Lopunny does have a niche as a fast offensive Normal pivot like Linoone-G or Persian but with the ability to break Gourg/Trev with Triple Axel like how Stoutland can with Scrappy. Its speed tier and coverage still make it relevant for its mostly unresisted coverage. Lopunny can fill a very specific hole for teams that Stoutland, Goone, and Persian fail to fill, and C- is good for reflecting that.

Sudowoodo: C- to B (could go C/C+)

Sudowoodo competes with Ston as a hard hitting Rock attacker but gets to capitalize on most of the meta overprepping for Ston with defensive Grasses while Sudo breaks a ton of Ston checks. It's a pretty decent HO lead, which makes me think it's more worth being in C or C+ for those purposes. A lot of teams are shockingly weak to it, but I don't think it's splashable or consistently useful enough for B rank.

Emolga: B to B+

Emolga is definitely a bit better right now thanks to Hattrem's presence decreasing the general viability of a lot of bulky Grounds, which allows it to Volt around a lot more freely. However, I think Emolga is just an okay compromise between Vespiquen (best Defogger) and Pikachu (best Knocker, offensive pivot, and RKer in one slot). I still find that Emolga generally struggles to check a lot of what it theoretically should when its on the field thanks to its bad bulk and tendency to just get set up on. I feel that the only top threats it really does an okay job at checking are like Gourg and Raichu while being a fine midground against Ivysaur. I just don't think it really fits in with some of the more consistent picks in B+.

 

[5gen]

Hey all, time for this month's VR update! Here is the voting sheet.

Changes

New Pokemon
Dugtrio ranked at B-
Hattrem ranked at A-

Rises
Dedenne C+ to B
Drilbur UR to C-
Duosion C to C+
Emolga B to B+
Grapploct A to A+
Honedge UR to C
Ivysaur B+ to A
Klang A+ to S
Koffing UR to C
Krokorok B- to B
Lampent B- to B
Lickitung C- to C
Machoke B+ to A-
Mudbray C+ to B-
Silvally-Ice A- to A
Slowpoke UR to C
Solrock B- to B
Stoutland B to B+
Sudowoodo C- to C+
Torracat C to C+
Vespiquen A to A+
Whiscash B+ to A

Drops
Bronzor B- to C+
Carkol B+ to B-
Cufant C to UR
Glalie B+ to B
Gloom C+ to C
Grookey A to B+
Hatenna C to UR
Hippopotas A to A-
Lopunny C- to UR
Marill C- to UR
Natu C+ to C-
Palpitoad A- to B
Swirlix C to UR
Trevenant A to B+
Trubbish C to UR
Vibrava B- to C+
Vullaby A to A-
Zweilous A- to B+

Highlights of this update:
Klang A+ to S
This should come as no surprise as Klang has been dominating the metagame lately as the premier Steel-type and setup sweeper. Klang's ability to set up on the majority of the tier, pick and choose what it beats, and extremely easy to slap on teams easily makes it an S-rank. In that token, Klang has been shaping the metagame and is a centralizing force, most recently seen through Iron Defense sets and how teams have been preparing for it with the rise of Fire- and Fighting-types, Specs Whiscash, phazers, and Trick users.

A to A+
Grapploct's combination of power, bulk, and versatility leave it noticeable better than A ranks. Grapploct has only gotten better since it dropped, showcasing how little can actually switch into it and/or check it. Bulk Up Grapploct is one of the scariest breakers and sweepers, being able to break most of the metagame and pressure offensive counterplay with Sucker Punch. Octolock sets have also seen an uptick in usage, allowing Grapploct to trap Pokemon such as Machoke and Pyukumuku. Assault Vest sets are still solid as well.

Conversely, Vespiquen has proven to be a defensive staple in this metagame. Its ability to check a large portion of the tier and support its team via pivoting, Defog, Toxic Spikes/Toxic spam, and sometimes as a cleric with Aromatherapy make it incredibly splashable. For example, it has been used around 30 times in ZUPL and has a 57% win percentage.

Ice Up to A

Ivysaur has been nothing short of incredible this ZUPL, with an absurd 92% win percentage in 13 uses. This is because Ivysaur is arguably the best stallbreaker in the metagame thanks to Knock Off, reliable recovery in Synthesis, being immune to poison, and of course its great STABs. Moreover, Ivysaur checks many top Pokemon from Whiscash to Hippopotas to Raichu, giving it great defensive utility as an offensive Pokemon.

Despite the popularity of Klang and Fighting-types such as Grapploct and Machoke, Silvally-Ice has been thriving in the current metagame because of how good Ice is offensively. Moreover, those Silvally stats make Silvally-Ice a well-rounded offensive Pokemon, the main downside being its weakness to Stealth Rock. However, Hattrem makes for a great partner for Silvally-Ice and checks common Pokemon such as Hippopotas, Shiinotic, Gourgeist-L, and Vespiqeun extremely well.

Whiscash has taken the meta by storm lately, preying on the popularity of top mons such as Klang, Stonjourner, Hippopotas, and Raichu. Little can switch into Specs Whiscash while it can soft check quite a bit. In addition, Sub Toxic sets are increasing in popularity. As seen in pif vs tko in the ZUPL semifinals, Sub Toxic Whiscash is able to cripple teams and break down switch ins reliably.

Ranked at A- and B-
Hattrem has changed the entry hazard game with its presence, forcing teams to run more proactive entry hazard setters and shutting down passive options such as Hippopotas and Palpitoad. Hattrem also soft checks popular Fighting-types and passive Pokemon such as Shiinotic and Pyukumuku, making it a decent offensive Pokemon. Also has Nuzzle and Healing Wish and Rest+Aromatherapy, making it a flexible option for teams. That being said, Hattrem's lack of reliable recovery leaves it somewhat exploitable and it doesn't stop most entry hazard setters, which leaves something to be desired.

Dugtrio is an okay drop. It isn't particularly impressive and doesn't match up well against much of the metagame, but it does have an incredible base 120 Speed and is moderately strong, making it a nice option for offensive teams and balance builds that can afford to fit it.


As for drops, most or all are not major. Hippopotas does not like Hattrem dropping and Grassy Terrain teams have dropped off without Swoobat (hence Grookey and Trevenant dropping). Vullaby has taken a slight drop in viablity with Vespiquen giving it stiff competition and it being somewhat easy to take advantage of because it is weak and matches up poorly against common threats such as Stonjourner, Silvally-Ice, and Bulk Up Grapploct. Swoobat being banned also plays into it falling off a little as well. Speaking of Swoobat's departure affecting viability, Zweilous dropped to B+ because it isn't as necessary for teams and does not like the uptick in Fighting- and Fairy-types. As for all the other drops, those ranks were simply cleaned up.

 

[kay]

I'm really happy with how the top end of the VR is looking so I'm going to take some times to give my thoughts on the more bottom end stuff


Raises:

B --> B+
I think screens are a super under rated play style in ZU right now and with morgem being the premier setter I think it could do with a bump up. With such a wide range of set up sweepers to chose from and memento support from dugtrio screens find themselves in a new world of viability as a play style compared to webs where its currently ranked with that have only started to struggle more as the meta's gone on. With cool support moves like taunt to annoy klang and hazard leads, twave to annoy offensive switch ins, and a strong enough dazzling gleam give even grap some issues, morgem puts in work every game even outside the prioirty screens niche. I would have brought screens almost every game of zupl if I could, I think they're that good.

B --> B+
One of the best balance breakers right now. Psychic/fighting/ghost coverage is extremely hard to switch into right now with with its typing and natural bulk it finds itself as one of the few good offensive mime switch ins in the tier when paired with lefites which gives it a lot of longevity to come in and do its thing.

C+ --> B-/B
The NP sets are actually really cool and the tier is really underprepared for offensive fairy types with fire coverage. Not a ton to say about this other then look at how much work it did in the durza vs yovan zupl game. This mons really good and honestly could go higher if more people start experimenting with it.

C- --> C+
I'll probably nom this to a higher position at some point in the future, but for now this is a pretty safe place to nom it to get it out of the "lets unrank it" category. This probably comes to no surprise i'm nominating this if you've seen my zupl tiebreaker game, but this thing is actually a monster on screens and in my opinion one of the best screen abusers in the entire tier. You can't wall this after a BD, and thanks to its ability you get to full HP again after a BD which means rather then trying to revenge kill a 75%~ hp mon after a BD like normal you're suddenly trying to revenge kill this from full which is extremely relevant when backed behind its insane bulk with screens up (calcs below). And yes, while slow, you actually get to run enough creep for things like 0 speed grap, machoke, muds, and even hat.

set and calcs

Greedent @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Body Slam
- Earthquake
- Crunch

252 Atk Stonjourner Superpower vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Greedent through Reflect: 133-157 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Stonjourner Stone Edge vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Greedent through Reflect: 83-98 (21.5 - 25.3%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO

252 SpA Mr. Mime Psychic vs. 20 HP / 0 SpD Greedent through Light Screen: 78-92 (20.2 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 SpA Mr. Mime Focus Blast vs. 20 HP / 0 SpD Greedent through Light Screen: 139-164 (36 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Whiscash Hydro Pump vs. 20 HP / 0 SpD Greedent through Light Screen: 131-155 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+6 252+ Atk Gourgeist-Large Foul Play vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Greedent through Reflect: 190-224 (49.2 - 58%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO

you can run a little more bulk then this if you drop down from hat creep --> machoke creep. Goes from 20hp to 52hp which gives it a tiny bit better bulk if you value that over the extra creep.

So because if its ability to set up on everything not having having faster knock off, locked into strong super effective coverage, or foul play, you have a lot of opportunities to come in, set up, and either break all their defensive cores while they wait out screens, or they sack their offensive pokemon 1 by 1 trying to get this into revenge kill range. And if they're running a more passive/ defensive team then it pretty much just wins.
(PS: This in trick room is not good.)


Drops:

B+ --> C
aveil is just worse screens. The only niche it has is you get to use beartic combo with it but its not worth making a team 5v6

B --> B-
its really awkward to fit now and only acts as an ice resist against 1 of the ice types in the tier (silvally-ice) and you lose a lot of the defensive niche's that you normally look to our other rockers to have

B- --> C+
just doesn't really do a lot anymore and doesn't really check anything relevant defensively with offensive sets being just gimmicky. Rocks, roost, and para spreading slapped on good raw defensive stats is just all its really good for, but lack of any good resists really makes it hard to fit on anything.

B- --> C+
while it did move down this shift, I did also try to get more testing with it and I've been totally underwhelmed by it. It pretty much only fits on hat balance or double removal teams which is a tall order to ask for teams. Sure it offers a lot of cute things defensively like vally ice and mime switch ins on a rocker/spiker, but with solrock making waves in the meta which gives it competition in that niche and the fact that it only works when you can guarantee rocks are off is just too much for this to find itself on anything but the most dedicated teams for it.

C --> UR
What does this even do anymore. Its way power creeped out.

C --> UR
The only cool thing about this mon is it used to be able to out speed and revenge kill all the silvally forms back in the day. Now its speed tier isn't nearly as useful thanks to the new drops and offensively it still just lacks the breaking power even with specs to get through any walls.

C- --> UR
Its like ivy but way less useful. I guess defog is kinda cool but would you really look at this on any team over ivy?

 

[btboy]

C --> B-
Shedinja is a unique and fun Pokémon and I’d like to challenge the idea that it’s gimmicky and/or tough to fit. This post is going to be somewhat long, so if you’d like the TL;DR version, feel free skip to the bottom and read the bolded text.

Shedinja’s access to Wonder Guard makes it very useful for checking some of the high-level offensive threats in the metagame, particularly special attackers. Here is a list of common threats and their variants – currently ranked B+ or better by the council – that are hard-walled by Shedinja: Scarf/Nasty Plot Mr. Mime-Galar (19.8% usage in September), Specs Whiscash (18.6%), NP/Specs Raichu (13.9%), Quiver Dance Bellossom (7.8%), Scarf/Specs Mr. Mime (7.5%) , and Cosmic Power Gothitelle (6.4%).

Because the metagame currently lacks an abundance of flying- and fire-types, there are four things Shedinja must be especially mindful of:

• Rock-types
• Status
• Knock Off users
• Grass/Ghost-types

However, Shedinja is not in the business of switching into any of these; Shedinja should be using Wonder Guard to switch into the aforementioned Pokémon with impunity, and many of its threats cannot themselves switch into Shedinja. Band Gourgeist-L (A+, 20.7%) and Trevenant (B+, 12.9%) can revenge kill Shedinja, but are OHKO’d if they switch into Poltergeist with Stealth Rock active, although the former has a 75% chance of survival in the absence of hazards:

Hide

252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gourgeist-Large: 258-306 (88.6 - 105.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gourgeist-Large: 258-306 (88.6 - 105.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 386-456 (124.1 - 146.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And defensive Gourgeist-L is outsped and 2HKO’d by Poltergeist – even without Stealth Rock – if it does not carry Shadow Sneak and does carry an item (more on this later):

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252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Gourgeist-Large: 212-252 (59.8 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Pikachu (22.4%) is a prominent Knock Off user who lacks the requisite bulk to operate outside of free switch-ins, and will fall victim to Shedinja’s STAB priority after a few trips through Stealth Rock. Once Pikachu gets below 67% HP, Shedinja’s Shadow Sneak OHKO’s:

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252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pikachu: 312-367 (147.8 - 173.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Shedinja Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pikachu (66%): 114-135 (54 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

However, Pikachu operating at close-to-full health and under its normal conditions obviously scares Shedinja out, as do bulkier Knock Off users who can’t be 2HKO’d with Poltergeist even after Stealth Rock damage, such as Ivysaur (A, 8.2%), Vullaby (A-, 7.9%), and Machoke (A-, 6.7%). Shedinja will require support when it comes to these Pokémon, but savvy players should already be accounting for both these threats specifically and Knock Off in general, especially in an Eviolite-heavy metagame. In that sense, I don’t think Shedinja is asking for special treatment by requiring a teammate who can function as a Knock Off absorber.

Bulky status-spreaders who can take hits and bypass Wonder Guard with Toxic or Will-o-Wisp also threaten Shedinja. Vespiquen (A+, 35.6%) doesn’t fear Poltergeist much (especially if she’s had her Heavy Duty Boots removed) and can threaten with Toxic or even Air Slash:

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252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vespiquen: 151-178 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

And Klang (S, 15.7%) variants carrying Toxic also shrug off Poltergeist and return fire:

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252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Klang: 108-127 (33.3 - 39.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Select bulky waters can also force Shedinja out. Pyukumuku (B, 9.2%) has access to instant recovery and laughs at Poltergeist:

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252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 93-109 (29.6 - 34.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

But, Palpitoad (B, 4.5%) will be worn down after too long:

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252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Palpitoad: 106-126 (29.9 - 35.5%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Other status spreaders have trouble switching into Shedinja, however. Dusclops (A-, 8.2%) can be annoying to break, but is easily dispatched by Shedinja’s Poltergeist:

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252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 122-146 (43.1 - 51.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Solrock (B, 2.4%) also hates Poltergeist:

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252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Solrock: 246-290 (64.2 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And Shedinja can even 2HKO it with X-Scissor if it would rather not risk missing on a Poltergeist:

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252+ Atk Shedinja X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Solrock: 180-212 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

As an aside, Solrock’s more offensively oriented cousin, Lunatone (B+, 5.9%), just can’t stomach Shedinja:

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252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lunatone: 438-516 (136.4 - 160.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Shedinja X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lunatone: 318-374 (99 - 116.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

This is a good segway into the subject of offensive Rock-types. Stonjourner (S, 31.3%) is as common as it is powerful and threatens Shedinja with both Stone Edge and Heat Crash. Its base 135 defense and lack of weaknesses to Shedinja’s STAB moves also let it switch in and either kill Shedinja or hit whatever comes in:

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252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stonjourner: 118-141 (34.6 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

New drop Lycanroc-Midnight (New, N/A) is another offensive Rock-type who is likely to be popular, and although it is not as bulky as Stonjourner, it can tank a Poltergeist or an X-Scissor and outspeed and kill Shedinja:

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252+ Atk Shedinja Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lycanroc-Midnight: 195-229 (62.7 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Shedinja X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lycanroc-Midnight: 141-166 (45.3 - 53.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Shedinja Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lycanroc-Midnight: 70-84 (22.5 - 27%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

In a vacuum, these Pokémon can switch in, survive a hit, and either force Shedinja out or kill Shedinja, but attempting to answer Wonder Guard with super-effective offense is inadvisable. This brings me to my next point. Swords Dance is not the best fourth move for Shedinja, in my opinion. Wonder Guard does allow it a free turn to set up if played correctly, yes, but Shedinja is better off operating early and often with guerilla tactics rather than cleaning late game. Shedinja should either hit-and-run its counterplay or status it. It has access to both Toxic and Will-o-Wisp, which gives it the ability to cripple switch-ins depending on what its team requires. Shedinja can burn the likes of Stonjourner, Silvally-Ice, Pikachu, and S as well as annoy walls with resistances to Toxic, like Klang and Ivysaur. It may also wear down defensive counterplay that hate status, like Vespiquen, Vullaby, and defensive Gourgeist-L (no item).

Given that Shedinja can attrition its offensive counterplay over time, but cannot consistently win against its defensive counterplay even with a Swords Dance under its belt, it is best to carry a status move in the fourth slot; Toxic is my favorite. There are also niche options available for that move slot. Grudge and Protect can punish and scout choice users, respectively, and Spite could be used situationally to PP stall setup sweepers like Klang who hope to boost in Shedinja’s face and win the patience game. I can also see any of these moves replacing Shadow Sneak if one’s team doesn’t need the speed control. I could also see there being merit to replacing Shadow Sneak in order to carry dual statusing moves.

In summary, Shedinja’s access to Wonder Guard affords it myriad switch-in opportunities and the ability to hard-wall some of the tier’s best offensive threats. Its highly usable base attack of 90 makes it difficult for offensive counterplay and/or Pokémon with weaknesses to its STAB moves to switch in freely, especially over the course of a game, and its access to both Toxic and Will-o-Wisp allow it to cripple switch-ins that would otherwise confront it with impunity. Being able to indefinitely switch into several A-tier Pokémon; 2HKO walls like Dusclops and defensive Gourgeist-L (Leftovers variant); punish offensive counterplay; and spread status, especially to the likes of Vespiquen and Vullaby, merits far more respect than a C ranking. Furthermore, the things that threaten Shedinja (Rock-types, status, Knock Off, and the Grass/Ghost-types) should already be accounted for in team-building, which means that you don’t necessarily have to build your team around Shedinja for it to succeed.

Note: this post has been edited after Tuthur pointed out that Shedinja does not wall Mold Breaker Fraxure. Thanks to Tuthur for the correction.

 

[Tuthur]

Quick reply on why Shedinja doesn't deserve to be better than C.

Shedinja’s access to Wonder Guard makes it very useful for checking some of the high-level offensive threats in the metagame, particularly special attackers. Here is a list of common threats and their variants – currently ranked B+ or better by the council – that are hard-walled by Shedinja: Scarf/Nasty Plot Mr. Mime-Galar (19.8% usage in September), Specs Whiscash (18.6%), NP/Specs Raichu (13.9%), CB/SD/DD Fraxure (9.3%), Quiver Dance Bellossom (7.8%), Scarf/Specs Mr. Mime (7.5%) , and Cosmic Power Gothitelle (6.4%).

Mr Mime Galar, Whiscash, and Raichu have specific sets walled by Shedinja, but they can afford to run Shadow Ball, Toxic, and Knock Off respectively, which makes Shedinja think twice before switching on them.
Fraxure isn't walled because Mold Breaker bypasses Wonder Guard.
Bellossom is hard walled by Shedinja, but a lot of other Pokémon are able to wall Bellossom (Vespiquen, Dusclops, Klang, Ivysaur).
The standard Cosmic Power Gothitelle set carries Toxic.

Because the metagame currently lacks an abundance of flying- and fire-types, there are four things Shedinja must be especially mindful of:

• Rock-types
• Status
• Knock Off users
• Grass/Ghost-types

You can add Sand Stream and Snow Warning to this list, as Hippopotas and Vulpix-Alola are viable threats (especially the former) to Shedinja as they prevent Shedinja to come on the field for 5 (or 8) turns.

I read that you reviewed how Shedinja interacts with some top tiers. Below you can read how it really interacts with the mon ranked from S to B+. The problem with most of your post is that you assume that Shedinja is facing a Pokémon it walls. In reality, Shedinja is either outsped or walled. There are only few Pokemon that are hard walled by Shedinja (Mimes, Toxic less Cash, Hattrem, Klang, and Bellossom) and in practice Shedinja doesn't have many opportunity to come on the field and is forced to scout almost every moves on the opposing team. Looking at my teams, in every team, at least 4 members don't care about Shedinja at all, and I have at most one Pokémon that is 100% of the time walled by Shedinja and you don't have to scout its set for.

Below

S
Klang - Walls most sets as Toxic is uncommun. If it has Swords Dance, it can even 1v1 Iron Defense Klang.
Stonjourner - Stonjourner always runs Stone Edge and Heat Crash. It just makes Choice sets think twice before clicking Superpower/Eq.

A+
Gourgeist-L - offensive Gourg outspeeds and defensive is always itemless. Shedinja is really not a threat to it.
Vespiquen - Shedinja is free on Toxic- and Dual Wingbeat- less Vespiquen. However it has to scout for these moves first.

A
Ivysaur - always carry Knock Off and outspeed.
Mr. Mime-G - Shedinja has to scout for Shadow Ball and can get messed up by Trick.
Pikachu - Pikachu outspeeds and has Knock Off. Shadow Sneak threatens it tho.
Raichu - Raichu often carries Knock Off, so Shedinja has to scout.
Silvally-Ice - outspeeds and always carries a Fire-type move.
Whiscash - Specs sometimes carry Toxic and Sub always has it.

A-
Beheeyem - most sets are walled, but it has to scout for Shadow Ball.
Dusclops - Polter 2HKOes so Dusclops isn't likely to stay, but it can since Toxic/Polter destroys Shedinja.
Fraxure - Mold Breaker
Gothitelle - Almost never foregoes Toxic or Dark Pulse
Hattrem - Bar the rare Mystical Fire, Hattrem is hard walled.
Hippopotas - Sand Stream lol
Machoke - Always has Knock Off, offensive outspeeds Shedinja and defensive is 4HKO.
Mr. Mime - Trick can mess up with Shedinja, whereas the scarce Mystical Fire hits Shed.
Vullaby - always carry a dark STAB move and completely walls Shed.

B+
Bellossom - gets walled
Emolga - always carry a Flying-move and has very often Knock Off.
Grookey - hits Shedinja with Koff, since it's locked, it's far easier to scout for the move. It's also pretty frail and easily threatened by Sneak.
Linoone-G - always carries Knock Off and is immune to Shadow Sneak.
Persian - bar the rare sets that run Water Pulse or Taunt, Persian always has Knock Off and is immune to Shadow Sneak.
Shiinotic - Shedinja has to scout for Toxic and Leech Seed.
Stoutland - CB has Crunch but is locked. Last Resort gets walled. Sand Rush is most of the time not locked and carries Crunch.
Lunatone - Shadow Sneak threatens Luna, but Luna OHKOes with Rock STAB.
Trevenant - Shadow Claw/Sucker Punch and is faster
Wartortle - SS is hard walled but defensive pivot has Toxic (ez to scout for the set tho)
Zweilous - Shedinja outspeeds and 2HKOes, but Zweilous OHKOes.

In conclusion, Shedinja needs a lot of support to scout what it walls and only gets limited opportunity to wallbreak. It also has some insanely bad match-ups such as versus Sand and Hail where it's completely useless. In my opinion, C-rank is the best rank for a Pokémon that fits the above description.

 

[Apagogie]

ZUPL and Post ZUPL metagame:

Drops

S -> A+
Stonjourner stays our most effective revenge killer and cleaner in the metagame. However, teams are now adapted to handle it reliably with among others, the presence of Whiscash, Mudbray or Hippo in most of teams. Its usage really dropped during the last week of ZUPL compared to what we could see during the first days as a result and if it has been overall decent during the whole tournament, it cannot be compared anymore to the level of centralization Klang currently exerces on the metagame. If I had to make a comparaison with a mon of gen7, Stonjourner would be an Electivire, a very potent scarfer with sometimes a different set if the team allows it. That alone is not enough to rank a mon at the highest level of the viability rankings, especially if it's relatively easy to play around what it clicks and if its answers are common and counter it perfectly. I would even argue further in saying that Stonjourner is not even the second best mon in the metagame, I think this definition better fits to Vespiquen due to its amazing utility and it's not far away either from Gourgeist-Large and its extensive versatility.

A -> A-
This mon hasn't been impressive during the whole ZUPL and hasn't been used at all since playoff if I'm not mistaken. Raichu is simply a mon very difficult to play due to the fact it heavily struggles to set up with its lack of bulk and speed control available in most of teams. NP would do poorly in most of the time with a presence relatively non-existent during the battle, except in falling against something really passive without ivysaur/gourgeist. Its pivot set with HDB, even if less match up based than NP, doesn't add far more utility than what an Emolga could do in my experience. Pivoting is generally more difficult right now since bulky offenses are on a clear decrase. Pivot Raichu simply needs too many turns to wear down a team that what we can accept in a meta which is shifting to be bulkier. I think this drop is pretty obvious but could engage much discussion but for the VR, I still put it there.

A- -> B+/B
Gothitelle is too inconsistent to stay in the A- rank. If it's possible to autolose versus her if you don't have the right match up, it's most of the time a deadweight without any utility in a team which drains the momentum and forces you to play basically at 5vs6. This doesn't change the fact that it's a deadly wincondition but to be perfectly honest, if it's what you are looking for, Klang is certainly a better choice. Not only Klang is just better and useful even outside of the good match up but it's also easier to get rid of its counters. Wearing down a Whiscash is not an issue, wearing down a Zweilous is definitely not possible. The counterplay against bulky set up sweepers is also more important due to Klang. Stuff like Whirlwind, Trick, Worry Seed Gourgeist see more usage which doesn't help more expensive set up sweepers to find a place in the metagame. Even if I always liked bulky set up sweepers, ranking gothitelle in A- is currently a stretch and should therefore drop in B+ and maybe B.

B+ -> B-
The presence of Politoed in the tier hurts Wartortle which lacks of a way to reliably hit it for offensive sets and which cannot click flip turn safely. However, the decrease of viability of our turtle is not only due to Politoed. Wartortle simply struggled to fill his role of hazard removers with toxic spikes vespiqueen used as most common defoger. With the power creep of the metagame, it was predictable that its damage input with only a base stat of 65 SpA would end insufficent to be claimed as a dangerous set up swepper. The adapation versus Whiscash has also been pretty detrimental to Wartortle since they share the same offensive moves. I think it's current rank in B+ doesn't reflect its viability in the current metagame and it should drop for at least two ranks.

C -> Unranked
I never had the opportunity to find a clear niche for this mon but now we have a hard counter which prevents it to pivot, I think it's pretty clear that you don't have a real reason to use Seadra except if you want to start a team with a downside to fill. Specs sets are worst than what whiscash/politoed can do and the reasons to play an other scarfer than Stonjourer, Mime or even Raichu are pretty limited. I think a new user shouldn't see the VR and thinks that Seadra is an okay mon to start a team because that really is not the case.

Rises

B -> A-
I think Pyukumuku doesn't feel in the right place in being ranked next to Glalie or Krokorok. Stall has proven to be a serious playstyle in the last rounds of ZUPL, notably used successfully by pif both in semi-final and final against kay and ho3n. This playstyle is a relatively safe way to win versus unprepared players and the utility of Pyukumuku in this archetype is unmatched. Set up sweepers like NP Mime, SD Silvally-Ice, Taunt Less Beartic or even Lampent would be real threats for stall without the presence of our little concumber and would drop the viability of this playstyle significantly. I think therefore that it is more than fair to rank Pyukumuku in A- which is better than the one where it is currently.

B- -> B+/A-
Contrary to other mons I talked above, the usage of mudbray has just increased in ZUPL weeks after weeks and for good reasons. Mudbray has seen a lot of usage in ZUPL for its ability to handle Stonjourner and Iron Defense Klang. It's a good alternative to Hippo and they are equal in viability in my opinion where the bulk and the sand of hippo matters in some match up but where the offensive presence and starmina is important in other. Since it's becoming a staple, I don't see the reason to keep it so low on the VR and I ask for a rise higher.

Discussion points

This post could end here but I decided to add few mons on the list to have at least a discussion in the council about their rankings because I think the ranks of mons listed below could potentially be changed :

B+ -> B ?
I have never been a fan of Shiinotic in the past and that hasn't changed now. If I agreed that B+ was a fine rank when Grapploct was still there, now it's gone, I struggle to see if there are still good reasons to keep it that high. Yeah, it's better than Gourgeist against Machoke but that's it really. It's worst than Gourgeist against any other match up, especially with Klang around and keeping it healthy can actually be a challenge if you rely on strength sap with Hattrem around. I didn't want to have a clear stand on this mon because I admit that it is not far worst than before but I think it's a bit overranked.

B -> B-/C+ ?
Similarly to Wartortle, I wonder how is the viability of Seaking in the current metagame with Politoed in this tier. Some points I would like to make:

• Toxic/Protect sets shouldn't be that good anymore, even if the presence of Knock Off gives it a small niche, alongside the fact it handles electric types. However, it's not even that hot versus most of our electric types to begin with since it's annoyed to lose leftovers versus emolga/pikachu and Raichu can probably set up more or a less on it.
• It doesn't really threaten Iron Defense Klang sets compared to Politoed. I think it's specially hard to justify when you start a new team. If you want to use Seaking but you have a mon which does approximately the same thing but in beating Klang, you could really reconsider your choice.
• I feel like rain is a difficult archetype to play or at least to rank high
• Pivots sets (Scarf/Band) stay alright especially since they stop volt switch but the presence of water immunities with Politoed sucks

For these reason, I think the rank of Seaking could really be discussed in its disfavour. If you have more opinions about it, feel free to share.

EDIT :

B -> B-/C+
Webs haven't been specially hot lately

New mons

Lastly, here is how I would currently rank the new mons. Nothing is written in the stone because I haven't had the time to test them fully, especially for meowstic-f.
-> A-/A
-> B/B+
-> B
-> C-/C

 

[czim]

Let's start with the new drops!
New -> A Politoed has become a huge metagame threat that has all the right tools to succeed. Great stats, movepool and ability make it extremely versatile and easy to fit on teams. I can definitely see it become an A+ mon in the near future though.
New -> B+ Definitely inconsistent but has an excellent movepool and can do offensive and defensive roles. I was originally going to nom this for B, but the SR+3 attacks set has convinced me it should be a bit higher due to how incredible it is in webs. It offers great utility and role compression and is just an all around an interesting mon.
New -> C+ Niche option for punishing defog, most of the time outclassed by Wigglytuff or Gothitelle on that though. It has a few selling points obviously, especially its great speed.
New -> C Niche Prankster user that just seems to not do anything super well. It does have a cool movepool though and might find itself a higher niche as the meta develops.

Now the rises, although most of the important ones have already been covered imo.
A -> A+ The rodent has been proving itself more and more as the metagame develops. The rise on bulky grounds such as Hippopotas and Mudbray is really good for Pikachu, as it can easily lure those threats for Klang and Stonjourner with Surf (or just cripple them with Knock). It's very hard to switch into, provides wallbreaking and speed control on the same slot and is incredible on Voltturn cores. This definitely edges the rest of the A ranks due to its splashability and versatility.
A- -> A Hattrem has been becoming more and more important as the metagame develops. The rise in Mudbray and Hippopotas usage made the physdef set a staple in bulky offense teams, preventing hazards and providing Healing Wish support. The same set also acts as soft checks for huge offensive threats such as Stonjourner and Whiscash if it runs Giga Drain. It is way easier to fit on teams than everything on A-, so this definitely deserves a rise.
C+ -> B- You can hate me all you want but Eiscue is just really noice right now. The Choice Band set has been gaining some traction and is an incredible form of speed control (with a free switch-in on any physical hit). Jolly Noice outspeeds Scarf Stonjourner and everything unboosted on the metagame. Its coverage isnt amazing but it gets the job done and is better than everything at C+, except Hakamo-o and Sudowoodo, which are nommed below.
C+ -> B Lowkey slept on right now. It just doesn't care about Ivysaur and has a handful sets of resistances that can just let it easily sweep if your opponent guess your set wrong. Access to Taunt, Substitute, Bulk Up, Dragon Tail and other moves just make it harder to play around.
C+ -> B- Wood Hammer is great in a meta infested with Ground-types being used as Rock-resists. Sudowoodo preys on standard team compositions that try to answer Stonjourner and Klang with stuff like Whiscash and Hippopotas, making it a pretty scary wallbreaker that is difficult to switch into.

Drops, also agree here with most of what's been nommed and will avoid repeats.
A- -> B+ When was the last time you've seen this do work? Shiinotic being pushed out of the meta and defensive mons such as Mudbray, Hippopotas and Gourgeist-L becoming more common just means that this has a much harder time breaking without being punished. Pikachu also being very splashable on offense makes SD+Scale Shot also very inconsistent. Common revenge killers such as Scarf Stonj and Scarf Mime also push it out of the meta.
B+ -> B Ivysaur 93% WR, enough said. Jokes aside though, every team usually carries 2/3 Bellossom counters between Vespiquen, Ivysaur and Klang. This is just hard to pull off and takes the Grass-type slot that is usually best filled by Ivysaur or Gourgeist-L.
B+ -> B Linoone-G has been very underwhelming in the last few weeks. It's power, speed and bulk just doesn't cut it anymore and it struggles even to check the Psychic- and Ghost-types it is meant to.
B+ -> B- Ivysaur 93% WR, enough said. This is just an inconsistent wall that was used because of Grapploct. It's way too easy to shut down with mons such as Ivysaur and Hattrem and its bulk isn't even that good.
B- -> C Dunsparce just doesn't do anything tbh. Its value was being a Normal-type that could set rocks and spread status, but Wigglytuff just does it better. I don't see a reason to run this on the current metagame.
C+ -> C Hates the Hattrem rise and just struggles to do anything well in this metagame.
C -> C- Gastly is just one of those mons that is cool in theory since it has 2 immunities and a immunity to Toxic, making it a nightmare for stall. But unless you're going to counterteam kay or something this is just not worth it. Feels more in line with niche cteam options such as Drilbur and Greedent.
C- -> UR Both power crept out. Wigglytuff dropping just makes Scraggy's life harder, with one extra fairy for it to worry about. Stunky was never even good to begin with but I didn't nom it down before just to not UR Ho3n's team mascot. The opportunity cost of running Stunky is just way too high.

 

[S1nn0hC0nfirm3d]

just kinda going down the current VR with my personal changes. Also, czim has a perfect Drops section that I'll echo besides . Shii still has the broken Spore + Strength Sap, and a few other tricks up its sleeve to make it a noteworthy sidegreade to defensive Gourgeist-L. A whole rank down at B+ is fitting for it, and it'll do much of the same and sometimes more.

UR > A+: Feels on par with Gourg-L when it comes to the versatility of this mon, being able to run a ton of different sets, and with a ton of inner-set variability thanks to its good movepool and all-around passable stats. It's a great bulky Water-type and should be at the core of a ton of different playstyles.

UR > B: Kind of underwhelmed with the lack of consistent bulk Wig provides. Offensive sets are ok but its still at a poor typing and bulk, with most relevant wallbreakers + Ivysaur easily outspeeding it. A new rocker is cool, but I'd consider it worse than Lunatone as far as an offensive rocker goes.

UR > B; B > B-: Okay so this has been left unsaid, but I wanna bring up how Meowstic has been ZU's traditional Prankster screen setter. Meowstic has considerably more bulk and Speed than Morgrem + Yawn, while Morgrem has a more unique typing for screens + Taunt. From what I've had time to test and see, I rekon that Meowstic will in fact replace Morgrem as the premier screen setter, but if not, they're still practically the same in most applications.

UR > B-: Outclassed by more offensive Psychic-types but has Speed and the potential to Nasty Plot on its side. Hard to fit outside of Morgrem screens (lol) or webs, but even then there's Wig that can do a bit more thanks to also having SR to potentially proc Competitive.

A > A-: Everything else in A are really unique and often the best at their roles, but Raichu's fragility combined with an increasingly overkill Speed tier makes it have much more competition with the other Electric rodents to justify it at a fat A rank.

A- > A: Stands out with the rest of A- and is worthy of a rise. Great hazard control and uses a lot of the neutral MUs of the Psychic-typing to its advantage. I'll always prefer Healing Wish + Nuzzle over RestTalk, but that edge of variability and consistency with Psychic / Grass coverage lets it excell at its job, and that's all it needs to do.

B+ > A-: Destroys unprepared teams with its awesome coverage and potential to boost further with Rock Polish and even Nasty Plot. Between fearing what it's last coverage is, it can easily secure Stealth Rock if it is, or just work with 4 attacks and be the teams special wallbreaker. This thing is way too scary for the B ranks.

C > B+: Oh yeah, we've all been waiting for it. This thing is completely under appreciated as a physically defensive pivot, and it effectively handles a lot more than what you may first think thanks to Regenerator. The noteworthy safe switch-ins for Slowpoke are Stonjourner, physical Silvally-Ice, and Stoutland, but it doesn't end with just physical attackers. Choice-locked special attackers like Whiscash and Mr. Mime can be effectively checked with Slowpoke being a switch-in while healthy, and if they lock into their unfavorable STAB attack, then it can switch out to a teammate and get most of the lost HP back. Pairing it with Gourg-L and Vespi will help to this degree, and they of course just love having a counter to Ston and SilvIce. And of course, a slow Teleport to bring in our tier's wallbreakers and stallbreakers is phenomenal. It's passivity isn't the biggest issue, with Scald threatening Ston and Toxic much of everything else, and it can still switch into defensive sweepers like Klang and Duosion if it means bringing in a wallbreaker safely, or with Klang, forcing it to rest off Scald burns.
Replays:

• Despite not a Ston in sight, Slowpoke + Vespi check Choice Specs Mr. Mime early-game, then with the help of Double Seed Gourg check Klang, and then finishes off that Mr. Mime with Toxic + Slack Off stalling.
• Pulls its weight against Webs and of course walls Ston.
• Pivots on Poli

Have a good day and play moar ladder plox :^)

 

[kay]

Small post to keep the train going.


Raises:

B --> B+

Rain got a huge boost this shift with wiggly + meowstic-m now being best in slot rain setters which gives a surge of viability to the 2 amazing rain abusers. Seaking at +2 under rain just shred through teams even when they pack water resists like Politoed, ivysaur, and offensive Geist as megahorn/ knock off ohkos them respectively. And everything not resisted pretty much drops to rain boosted +2 waterfalls. Its also really effective even outside Rain teams as just a general breaker or an AV / CB mon with Flip Turn as Politoed can't ever comfortably switch into it to block the Flip turn.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1200624777-k8is54wr2rkeay8dh8npqeh41xx3y8dpw

B- --> B+

Same thing with Seaking, with rain getting a new wave of viability this things an absolute monster. I think Beartic was already quite an under rated breaker in the tier to start with but when backed by rain its pretty brutal to play against and thanks to its killer bulk its pretty easy to actually set up to +2 and just start going to town on people. And with the meta getting slightly slower and a little more bulky thanks to Hat BO starting to make waves it makes Beartic outside of rain a lot better then it was a bit ago too which helps its viability a lot.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8zu-1200174758-5pcdiwytxg8qxv5ja1t0552sroiqazepw


New Stuff:

--> A+ I'm a hard believer in Politoed. Between specs, offensive lefties, and specially defensive there always seems to be some set Politoed fits on with ease on basically every team. Highly splashable and extremely effective I think A+ is the right place for it.

--> B/B+ Its pretty average but as far as offensive rockers in the tier goes its actually pretty decent if you want a rocker that's going to be offensive that's also not a suicide lead which is pretty nice to finally have an option like that because it was pretty much just stonj. Its also an amazing rain setter thanks to the role compression of rocks + teleport as a nice bonus.

--> B/B- After a lot of testing I think it has almost no merit as a screen setter over Morgrem as yawn doesn't do nearly as much as Taunt at doing what screen teams want, keeping up screens. That said its the best Rain setter in the tier so I see it like Charjabug where its viability is pretty much tied to the viability of rain which I would rate pretty highly right now.

--> B- Fast specs mon with a cool ability to dissuade defog which could make it be a cool pick on something like Spike stack or Webs.The thing really keeping it down tho is its inability to really break past Klang but at least with Specs you can run Trick and try to cripple it.

 

[5gen]

The VR will be locked Tuesday night gmt -4 and the council will begin the next slate after that. Been seeing a lot of good noms and discussion. Be sure to make any new noms before then.

 

[5gen]

Update time. As always. here is the voting sheet.
New Pokemon
Meowstic ranked at B-
Meowstic-F ranked at C+
Politoed ranked at A
Wigglytuff ranked at B

Rises
Beartic B- to B
Greedent C- to C
Hakamo-o C+ to B-
Hattrem A- to A
Mudbray B- to A-
Pyukumuku B to B+
Slowpoke C to B

Drops
Bellossom B+ to B
Bronzor C+ to C
Carkol B- to C
Corsola B to B-
Dartrix C to UR
Drakloak C to C-
Dunsparce B- to C
Fraxure A- to B+
Gastly C to C-
Linoone-G B+ to B
Raichu A to A-
Seadra C- to UR
Shiinotic B+ to B
Stunky C- to UR
Vulpix-A B- to C
Wartortle B+ to B-