STAB STABmons

in the hills

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Survey Results and Announcements
Thank you all for your responses in our previous survey!! We received a lot of great responses, which you can find here:
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The survey also showed overwhelmingly that the community was not in favor of banning Tyranitar in any capacity, so we will not be pursuing that idea in the future, as we were not sold on the idea ourselves either. Thanks for the feedback! As a result, the STABmons council has decided that...


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1617133526368.png

SPECTRIER HAS BEEN BANNED AND CLANGOROUS SOUL HAS BEEN RESTRICTED FROM STABMONS!!!

Following our survey, the council has still struggled to decide on a concrete plan, but after much deliberation we decided that both Spectrier and Clangorous Soul were the most restrictive elements in the current metagame.

Spectrier was the clear front runner in our survey, and for good reason. The main purpose of our survey was to gauge how people felt about Pokemon that necessitate the use of Tyranitar in the metagame, and everyone seems to be in agreement that while Ghost-type breakers in general do necessitate Tyranitar on some builds, Spectrier was by far the most polarizing threat of the 3. Where Gengar and Blacephalon have secondary checks in bulky Water-types like Seismitoad and Assault Vest Toxapex, Spectrier's are practically nowhere to be found in the current metagame. We feel that Spectrier's presence in the tier was too restrictive and is the most clear example of the issues that have been discussed the past few months.

We had a small back and forth about Clangorous Soul and whether or not it or its abusers were the issue, but ultimately we felt that this move enables them just a bit too much. While Latias was pretty clear as the main Clangorous Soul user, it is not broken in its own right while Latios was right behind it as a broken ClangSoul user, albeit less so. We feel that Clangorous Soul has no place in the metagame as it has the potential to enable multiple already strong Pokemon too much.

Votes:
drampa's grandpain the hillsstresh RESULT
Spectrier
BAN​
BAN​
ABS​
BAN (2-0-1)
Clangorous Soul
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN (3-0)
As you can see, only the 3 of us voted on this slate. This brings me on to my next announcement, vivalospride and betathunder have stepped down from the council. Thank you to both of them for their work and helping us out!

What's Next?
Gengar and Blacephalon:
As it currently stands, our next plan is to look into the other two Ghost-type threats in the metagame. They both were top 4 highest priority threats from the community survey, but the council was split on whether or not they were banworthy at this time. Most likely, there will be a suspect in the near future, but we have not set anything in stone.

Zapdos-Galar: Zapdos-Galar is a threat that the council feels is very pressing, as it has very limited counterplay, especially after a No Retreat. While we did list No Retreat in our survey, it is clear that nobody thinks the move itself is broken, but rather its single user. We'll be keeping an eye on Zapdos-Galar over the next few weeks before making a decision on it.

Other
After those two plans, we do not currently have our eyes set on anything in particular. It is too earlier to say what the metagame will look like a few weeks out from now, so we are keeping our options open. There are a few things from the survey, as well as one not on the survey, that I'd like to touch on for a moment.
Glacial Lance: While this did rate pretty high on the survey, we are not completely sold that it is broken in the present moment, as its abusers are not very prevalent in the current metagame. As we move forward, the metagame and our position on this may change.
Tapu Koko: While this did rate fairly high as well, we do not feel that Tapu Koko is close to an issue at the present moment. Tapu Koko is a solid thread, but with its checks such as Excadrill, Rotom-Heat, Ferrothorn, Tapu Bulu, and Seismitoad being so prevalent, it has more than its fair share of counterplay in the metagame. As it stands there are no plans to look into in Tapu Koko as we feel its presence in the metagame is healthy.
Toxapex: Toxapex has been discussed on occasion since DLC1 introduced Flip Turn to us, but the general response every time is that it is not quite unhealthy enough to be banned. However, it will most likely still stay in the back of our minds as we move forward and I'm sure this discussion will come up again in the future.
Tapu Bulu: Tapu Bulu was mentioned by several people on the survey, however the council feels that it is manageable in the current metagame, and has notably become worse since the ban of Landorus-Therian due to the increased variety and viability of Steel-Types, as well as increased usage of other Grass-type checks.
Thundurus-Therian: While this was not on our survey, it is something that came up during our discussions. Thundurus-Therian has maintained a somewhat lowkey status since DLC2 started, but it is quite difficult to play against in a lot of matchups. Nasty Plot sets can just outright win some matchups against teams without Tyranitar, so it does put a heavy strain on teambuilding despite not being a prominent threat currently. I think this is something that will make itself prevalent as we move forward, but we shall see.

Thank you all again for your feedback and we hope that these changes will move us to a less volatile metagame. We will be sure to keep up with the community's thoughts better moving forward and make sure that we are quicker to act upon issues in the metagame.

Tagging Kris to implement Spectrier ban and Clangorous Soul restriction.
 

in the hills

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STABmons Viability Rankings:

S Rank:

S Rank

Tyranitar

A Rank:

A+ Rank


Ferrothorn
Garchomp
Tapu Bulu
Toxapex

A Rank

Excadrill
Seismitoad
Zapdos-Galar

A- Rank

Aegislash
Corviknight
Heatran
Latios
Slowbro
Sylveon
Tapu Koko
Thundurus-Therian

B Rank:

B+ Rank


Celesteela
Gengar
Gyarados
Rotom-Heat
Tangrowth
Tapu Lele
Tornadus-Therian
Victini

B Rank

Aerodactyl
Amoonguss
Blacephalon
Dracozolt
Dragonite
Kyurem
Magearna
Mandibuzz
Nidoking
Obstagoon
Rillaboom
Slowking-Galar
Tapu Fini
Weavile
Zapdos
Zeraora

B- Rank

Alakazam
Blissey
Buzzwole
Cinderace
Diggersby
Keldeo
Kommo-o
Magnezone
Marowak-Alola
Pelipper
Rotom-Wash
Slowking
Terrakion

C Rank

C Rank


Azumarill
Barraskewda
Blaziken
:chansey: Chansey
Clefable
:ditto: Ditto
Grimmsnarl
Hawlucha
Hippowdon
:jirachi: Jirachi
Latias
Melmetal
Moltres-Galar
Porygon2
Scizor
Shedinja
Slowbro-Galar
Suicune
Swampert
Volcarona
Zarude
:zygarde-10%: Zygarde-10%
The STABmons Viability Rankings have been updated! Check them out here!

We're also opening up for Sample Team submissions! Post your submissions in this thread with a copy of the team and a description explaining what the team does for a chance to have it included in our Sample Teams! That's all for now thanks!
 
I have been waiting to show this team. This is a team that originally I made as a meme but it has done well enough in tours, etc that I think it might be unironically great:

Pokepaste Link

a laser dolphin's STABmons Setup Offensive Team

This is a team that really enjoys increased access to setup moves and can really steamroll those unprepared.


:ss/weavile:
Weavile @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Glacial Lance
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
This is a somewhat standard Weavile set. The item can change according to your play-style. Sash is nice if you opt to either bring this out early or run hazard removal somewhere else. I use this team as something that's pretty high-tempo, so I prefer HDB, but YMMV.


:ss/ferrothorn:
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Strength Sap
- Anchor Shot
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
Relatively standard Ferrothorn, although I'm opting to run dual hazards. Since this team opts not to waste any slots with removal, this can pressure your opponent to Defog and give you an opening if you need one. This is excellent at being a reverse wallbreaker for physical mons.

:ss/latios:
Latios (M) @ Life Orb / Throat Spray
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psystrike
- Core Enforcer / Clanging Scales
- Aura Sphere
Instead of removing Latios altogether from this team after Clang was banned, I made some slight changes and it still does a great job. Throat Spray + Clanging Scales can be a fun surprise factor if you're looking to push out some extra damage.

:ss/toxapex:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Recover
- Haze
- Flip Turn
Pretty by-the-book Pex, although I'm opting to keep Sludge over Rocky Helmet, given how Ferro is adjusted in this core.


:ss/blaziken:
Blaziken @ Life Orb / Heavy-Duty Boots / Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat / Thunderous Kick
- Pyro Ball / Fire Lash
- Protect / Earthquake / Thunder Punch
- Swords Dance
This, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone else that may align elsewhere, is the mover/shaker of this team. Blaziken may not be the mon it was in past gens, but Good Arceus is it incredible here. I cannot even begin to explain how great this art-piece is. The much more traditional and more mentally together than I am trainer would probably use CC/Pyro/Protect/SD, and they'd have every reason to do that. It's extremely powerful STAB, you can scout with Protect and secure kills with SD, and a bunch of other stuff. The broke strat aside, the woke strat is Thunderous Kick, Fire Lash, Protect, SD. You definitely aren't pushing out as much power early on as you would with the original set, but by golly is it unstoppable if you opt to play more read-heavy. I have had many full-team sweeps with Blaziken. Now, for the truly daring trainer, the bespoke strat is to drop Protect entirely and run coverage. With the right coverage (and good use of the rest of the team), you are pretty much completely unwallable, especially with the guaranteed stat drops from the Dual STAB selections. After one SD, you can OHKO almost everything in the remote neighborhood. If you can threaten the defogger on the other team enough, the combination with the hazard stacking will legit break just about any mon in the game, especially with the rest of the team hammering down threats. Your item selection obviously depends again on your play-style, but I even ran lefties at one point to help reduce the threat of prio chip. I like Jolly because most folks are expecting Adamant and will act accordingly, often giving you a free chance to click your favorite move.


:ss/heatran:
Heatran @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Autotomize
- Blue Flare / Fiery Dance
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power / Scorching Sands
I love this Heatran. The logical set is Blue Flare to secure certain Corv OHKOs, etc, but Fiery Dance is thematically great with this team and allows for excellent late-game cleanup, especially if they somehow manage to kill Blaziken. Also a good backup threat to rival Ferrothorns.
Life Orb helps secure a couple interesting OHKOs:
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 309-367 (101.6 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 484-572 (121 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO (not that max SpDef is insanely common but it's still noteworthy)
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zapdos-Galar: 331-390 (103.1 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (don't forget you're often +2 speed)
And there are plenty others. However, I often do like running lefties to bait out the idea that it's bulky Heatran - they'll set up on you, you click Autom, and then the fun really begins. If you're extremely afraid of TTar (which this team often isn't, especially because of Blaziken and/or hazard spam), you can run Air Balloon or even Shuca Berry.

This team, especially the last two mons, puts in a ton of work, and can break through (if not at least cripple) pretty much anything you throw at it. There's certainly a bit of a surprise factor that this team likes to thrive off of, but you can definitely throw this thing through the gauntlet and do quite well! As a whole, I like this team as a good ratio of orthodoxy to creativity, and I hope you'll like it too!
 

in the hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
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I might as well post some teams for sample submissions to get the ball rolling a little more.

Triple Regenerator Balance:
I made this balance when I wanted to mess around with Tangrowth+Glowking as a regen core since they cover each other's threats pretty well. Decided to go with AV Glowking since it's actually able to check the majority of special attackers in the metagame in one slot while providing some offensive pressure with Future Sight. After this core, I went with SpD Spikes Seismitoad as my Ghost-type check and Spiker, since it's one of the best Pokemon in the current metagame and provides great role compression. After that, I decided that I needed something a little faster to help against slower breakers, so I added Defog Tornadus-T and Tapu Koko to the team, since they can offensively check stuff like Zapdos-Galar, Garchomp, and Latios. I finished the team off with Heatran, as I needed an offensive rocker and something that could pressure Steel-types a lot better.

Threat List:
  • Kyurem: Kyurem is a tough one because you can't really tell at preview whether its physical or special, so making the wrong play is detrimental. Special sets are manageable with Slowking-Galar but Dragon Dance in general is really tough for this team to beat.
  • Zapdos-Galar: Zapdos-Galar is somewhat a manageable threat with Tornadus-T and Tapu Koko, but if Tapu Koko gets chipped, it's definitely possible for No Retreat GZap to just clean
  • Aerodactyl: Although I can't remember the last time I've seen Aerodactyl, it undoubtedly does not have any switchins on this team. Keeping up pressure with Stealth Rocks and trying to guess 50/50s with Tangrowth and Tapu Koko is really your only counterplay here.

Thundurus-T Offense:
For my second submission I went with something a bit more offensive. I wanted to build with Thundurus-Therian because it's a super scary threat in the current metagame, and paired it with Garchomp to cover Tyranitar and Heatran. I went with Spikes LO Garchomp since I felt this set could apply a lot of pressure to teams without needing to set up which would make it a lot easier to set up spikes. I went with Tapu Bulu as a secondary offensive check to Tyranitar and bulky Ground-types, and because it's a great revenge killer right now. After that, I went with a pretty classic defensive core so that I didn't fold to the rest of the offensive metagame.

Threat List:
  • Zapdos-Galar: Zapdos-Galar struggles to get in on a few Pokemon on this team, but if it can get in you're put in a pretty tough position. Corviknight and Thundurus-T are both able to soft check it, but ultimately it's able to put huge holes in this team if it wants to.
  • Tapu Koko: While Tapu Koko is a pretty big threat to this team on paper, this team basically forces it into one huge 50/50 that you can take advantage of pretty well.
  • Faster Pokemon: I don't really have a good example here but this team is pretty slow on paper and relies a good bit on Tapu Bulu's Grassy Glide to check faster threats, so I'm sure there's a few things I'm forgetting that can potentially sweep in a good situation.
That's all I have for now, feel free to try out these teams and what not and I hope you enjoy!
 
Bumping this to drop some teams I made / used for Slam. I was mostly too lazy to use my own teams for this metagame, and relied on stuff I'd previously stolen, mostly from aesf mixed with a bit from jrdn. However, there were a few I made use of that I made myself.

https://pokepast.es/45b43e23118bf94e (Regieleki HO)
This was an old team I made use of, with some minimal updates. It's no longer legal due to Csoul ban and there was no real way to update it further, but it was a fun fast paced team who's strategy I might come back to later. It really just overwhelmed a lot of teams once it got going

https://pokepast.es/5fce9b0ed959fd3d (Kingdra Rain)
This was something I initially built for Team Canada in OMGS finals, they ended up not making use of it but I was quite satisfied with it and used it a few times myself in the stabmons open. It made use of Clangorous Soul Kingdra, who was great at punishing the mindless efforts of most teams to stop rain by switching into TTar. Kommo-O sets rocks, checks a few threats (including Sylveon and Ferro) and allows breaking vs a few team archetypes. Amoongus deals with Bulu because that mon is a nightmare, especially for rain. Thundy is a much-needed electric immunity; it's not the most reliable switchin to the likes of Koko, but I do have Amoongus for that, what I needed was a voltblocker. Thundy does that while also helping with the bUlu weakness and giving a good bit of extra balance breaking power, although Focus Blast is a bad move that it's always a pain to try and connect vs TTar. If I were updating it today I'd probably swap out both Kingdra (since it no longer has CSoul) and Craw (since it's breaking is optimized for what Kingdra struggles with) but overall I like the idea and it was effective.

https://pokepast.es/c15a303d2b15050c (Webs HO)
A very weird team, not sure what to think of it. I intended it for finals, but I was defeated by aesf before then and after that I didn't have reason to continue refining it. I think the concept here works quite well and a lot of the idea is good but it's a very raw team as things stand. Physical Nidoking seems sketchy at first glance but it's really crazy strong; in the right MU, it can just break a lot of teams that mistake it for the special variant with no recovery, and coil is very nice to make revenge killing it much harder. I was kicking around mixing in Galar Zapdos and maybe Tornadus-T, but who knows if I'll get anywhere with that.
 
Not sure if the VR rank works this way, but if it is possible, I would like to nominate Excadrill to A+. In addition to its commonly used abilities to make it up to A, Excadrill has a rather underused but amazing ability to set up Spikes, the best hazard of Gen8 in my opinion. No matter which set Excadrill uses, it can almost always fit this move into its slot, and it pressures a lot of defensive pokemons that do not bring HDB because they are not afraid of Stealth Rocks.
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
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STABmons Teambuilding Challenge Week 1!
Welcome to the first iteration of the in-thread STABmons Teambuilding Challenge! Here we will provide you with a weekly inspiration in the form of a set, Pokémon, archetype, or something else we haven't yet considered for you to build around.

To emphasize: Building a strong team is more important than religiously following the prompt.
The prompt is somewhere to start, not what we are judging based on.

The round will run from Sunday* - Sunday, as with most other projects.
*I'm posting this week early because of my own schedule and because it doesn't interfere with anything :o
RULES:
1 -
As always, all Smogon rules apply
2 - Submit your team through pokepaste. You may also have the paste elsewhere in your post just make sure the Pokepaste is there for us to find.
3 - Give us a brief rundown of your team: how it functions, what your building process was, and any additional information you think would be helpful.
4 - Your team does not actually have to include the inspiration! However if it is not immediately obvious what your team has to do with the prompt, please provide us with an explanation of how you arrived at your finished product. Tell us if you think the provided Pokémon is unviable in the current metagame, or why something else ended up fitting what you were building better.
5 - All submissions will be logged in the Hall of Fame (WIP) unless specifically requested otherwise, however we will have a voting slate beginning every Friday and ending every Sunday.
6 - Feel free to post more than one team, however only one will be considered for voting. If you do not specify this will be the first one in your last post (so if I made two posts with two teams it would be the first team from the 2nd post).

One of the main goals of this project is to amass teams both for people casually perusing the thread and for us to use as samples. We have had extremely few submissions so hopefully this will help with that. We also hope to generate more conversation and activity as always!

The first week's prompt is....
Despite the image it's perfectly fine to use Tapu Bulu on your team ;)

I HATE TAPU BULU!
With this prompt we are looking for teams that are admirably prepped to deal with one of STABmons' top threats, Tapu Bulu.

This could be as simple as running a team that is not at all weak to it, it could be running a team mostly weak to Bulu that nonetheless manages to be prepared, or it could be running an unconventional and unexpected way to remove Tapu Bulu. Or it could be something I didn't think of! Use your imagination!
 
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The Number Man

is a Community Contributoris the defending Other Metas Circuit Champion
CAP 30 Playtest Winner
Shoutouts for starting this project! Personally, I've been wanting to build some teams for this but never really got around to it until you guys announced the challenge. Hopefully there's others in a similar situation as well. I actually built 3 teams cause exploring the meta is fun, so here they are.

Submission: Kyurem bulky offense
:kyurem: :seismitoad: :corviknight: :tapu koko: :rillaboom: :heatran:

Basically, my thought process was that Kyurem is busted with Glance so I wanted to build around that. I wanted to support it with toad cause heatran is its biggest nightmare (since im running mono ice stab) and toad seemed like the best tran switchin, plus it also absorbs flip turns from pex. Kyurem + fast electric type has always felt like a good core to me (since they lure in grounds that give Kyurem free turns), I built Kyurem + Zera in AAA while both were still legal and it was quite nice so I decided to go with Kyurem Koko here. The key advantage koko has over zera is Uturn. With Zera, you gotta doubleswitch to get in Kyurem. With Koko you just uturn, which is also the reason im running uturn over volt switch.
The team felt a bit soft to +1 chomp so i added corviknight and rillaboom, rilla also works well w uturn koko being able to bring it in on ground types. Superpower gives me a chance to snipe Heatran on the switch. Last mon heatran cause it lets me potentially snipe opposing trans w earth power, DD is a nice move and its yet another bulu check, also answers sylveon well since my corv is pdef. This team is a bit soft to lele since im running offensive tran and pdef corv, and it's certainly not optimal, since my read on the meta is almost nonexistent, so feel free to adjust it if needed.

Bonus teams:

TornLele Sand
:tornadus-therian: :tapu lele: :tyranitar: :excadrill: :toxapex: :zapdos:

I started off with the idea of bulky Torn T (Spa EVs ensure FB ohkos max spd TTar at +2). Decided to pair it with Tapu Lele, cause fighting move torn is good at removing lele switchins and vice versa. Both Torn and Lele get outsped by Koko so I added the sand core to help with that. Pex i just added cause its a pex and i also have Zapdos cause I felt like my Gapdos MU wasn't great. But its possible that Pdef pex is enough and a Steel bird or a grass type is better there to improve the chomp MU.

KokoLati Balance
:amoonguss: :celesteela: :seismitoad: :tyranitar: :tapu koko: :latios:

I wanted to build an amoongus team cause bulu is sus and amogus beats it nicely + spore/tspikes utility is quite useful. Initially I added Chomp and Specs Bro to this team but then i realised that such a configuration leaves me extremely weak to setup mage so I went with Latios + Toad instead. I paired koko with a psychic type cause I felt like a Psychic type with coverage for Steels could lure ferro and let Koko spam moves more easily. Defensively, I added steela to toxic Dragon dancers, be another Bulu check and abuse Owing. Toad is the obligatory ground type and TTar finishes off the team as a SpD psychic/ghost/flying resist.

These 2 teams are even less optimal than the first one so again, any comments or straight up changes if you do end up using them for samples or whatever are encouraged.

E: thanks to Chazm for fixing my kyurem spread
 
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in the hills

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OM Leader
Submission:
Flying Frogs (Zapdos Galar Offense):


This team centers around No Retreat Roost GZap+Choice Specs Latios to break teams, with Heatran for Stealth Rock support and for threatening opposing Celesteela and Corviknight. Seismitoad finishes off the hazard stacking core, and I added Toxic Celesteela to help out my Garchomp and Tapu Bulu matchups a bit more. Finally, I added Tapu Bulu as some speed control and to deal with bulkier Water types. Overall, this team is pretty straightforward and gets the job done. The Thundurus-T matchup is a little rough Latios can revenge kill at any point and Tapu Bulu can if it is chipped.

Other Teams:
Victory Screech (Dragonite Hazard Stack):

This team looks hilarious on paper given there's not a single A rank or higher Pokemon on it, which was completely unintentional. I wanted to build with Dragonite for the Fuck Bulu theme as it's a really cool offensive Tapu Bulu check, and after a lot of editing I ended up pairing it with Victini to deal with Steel/Flying Pokemon. I went with Toxic Celesteela again for my Garchomp matchup, and paired it with Thunder Clefable as my Stealth Rock setter. Since I had Clefable, I chose to use Rillaboom over Tapu Bulu, while the Knock Off support is very valuable for this team. I ended this team off with Gastrodon for my Spiker since it provides slower pivoting than Seismitoad does.

Into the Jungle (Tangrowth Balance):

I went with Tangrowth as my "Fuck Bulu" inspiration since I think it is one of the best bulky Grass-types right now for its ability to check both Tapu Bulu and Garchomp in one slot. I paired it off with Toxapex as an Ice and Fire-type check that finishes of the Regenerator core. For my offensive core, I wanted to try out Life Orb Latios, which is a really nice breaker at the moment that a lot of teams are unprepared for. Latios struggles a bit with Steel/Flying mons, so I paired it with Tapu Koko for good measure. I originally went with Celesteela on this team as my Defogger, but opted for Corviknight for its pivoting. Seismitoad is my Ghost-type check and sets Spikes. Overall, I'm not really sure how I feel about this team yet since I haven't used it but on paper it seems a little more passive than I'd like, even with hazard stack and LO Latios, although the team still synergizes well enough to function.

Beach Boys (Garchomp Offense):

I'm not gonna go into much detail on this one, I just wanted to build something with LO SD Garchomp and this team ended up looking incredibly similar to the team that QT has been using a bunch for the past few months. Looks really solid though tbh.

Hope you enjoy, really cool project drampa I hope a lot of people at least try building something
 

Isaiah

The inner workings of my mind are an enigma
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Moderator
Submission:
1619557246502.png1619557257261.png1619557265419.png1619557584987.png1619842449199.png1619557568692.png - Zapdos-Galar Hazard Stack BO
My first thought was to try and build something with Zapdos-Galar + Corviknight to address the anti-Bulu theme, so here goes. The former is No Retreat because as far as I can understand, it's clearly the best set for ZapG and has the potential to just blow through teams given any kind of opening. The rest of the team is pretty much there to support the sweep: Physically defensive Corviknight with Rocky Helmet punishes Tapu Bulu for every attack, whereas Tyranitar and Ferrothorn form my hazard stacking core and also make sure that the team doesn't auto lose to fast special attackers like opposing Tapu Koko and Latios. Specs Tapu Koko gives me decent speed control and consistent offensive pressure + pivoting to get in my Zapdos. The Garchomp is pretty much there because I don't feel comfortable building without a Ground-type, and it actually does a decent job of applying pressure to bulky Water-types and things like Corviknight/Celesteela once it gets a Swords Dance or two, which helps out ZapG a fair amount as it tries to find opportunities to set up a sweep.
 

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drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
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Voting will go up at the end of today (12 AM EST), so get your submissions in by then!

Here is my submission!
:garchomp::tapu_koko::celesteela::tyranitar::excadrill::toxapex:
https://pokepast.es/e8d00f3546ac321b

Fat Dragon Dance Poison Jab Garchomp is meant to lure Tapu Bulu so Excadrill can sweep, while Steela and Koko can keep it under control.

This team is absurdly weak to Coil Nidoking, and other offensive grounds give it trouble as well. Steela is too passive to keep stuff like Exca, Chomp, and Nido from boosting and Garchomp, while it does a decent job, isn't a resist and isn't endlessly fat so it's really only a check.
 
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drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
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VOTING PHASE

Vote for your favorite teams submitted this week!

The Number Man
:kyurem: :seismitoad: :corviknight: :tapu koko: :rillaboom: :heatran:

in the hills


Think
1619557246502.png1619557257261.png1619557265419.png1619557584987.png1619557568692.png

drampa's grandpa
:garchomp::tapu_koko::celesteela::tyranitar::excadrill::toxapex:


You may vote for up to three teams.
Click the team icons for links to the respective Pokepastes.
Submitters may vote but cannot vote for their own teams.

Voting will close in ~24 hours.

I will use my own vote as an example:

Code:
1 - The Number Man
2 - In The Hills
3 - Think
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
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The voting is in and our champion for this week is...

in the hills! Congratulations to our own council member.

1 - The Number Man 2 - In The Hills 3 - Think
1. Think
2. drampa's grandpa
3. The Number Man
1. ith
2. drampa
3. tnm
1. ith
2. think
3. drampa
STABmons Teambuilding Challenge Week 2!
Welcome to the second week of the in-thread STABmons Teambuilding Challenge! Here we will provide you with a weekly inspiration in the form of a set, Pokémon, archetype, or something else we haven't yet considered for you to build around.

To emphasize: Building a strong team is more important than religiously following the prompt.
The prompt is somewhere to start, not what we are judging based on.

The round will run from Sunday - Sunday, as with most other projects.
RULES:
1 -
As always, all Smogon rules apply
2 - Submit your team through pokepaste. You may also have the paste elsewhere in your post just make sure the Pokepaste is there for us to find.
3 - Give us a brief rundown of your team: how it functions, what your building process was, and any additional information you think would be helpful.
4 - Your team does not actually have to include the inspiration! However if it is not immediately obvious what your team has to do with the prompt, please provide us with an explanation of how you arrived at your finished product. Tell us if you think the provided Pokémon is unviable in the current metagame, or why something else ended up fitting what you were building better.
5 - All submissions will be logged in the Hall of Fame (WIP) unless specifically requested otherwise, however we will have a voting slate beginning every Friday and ending every Sunday.
6 - Feel free to post more than one team, however only one will be considered for voting. If you do not specify this will be the first one in your last post (so if I made two posts with two teams it would be the first team from the 2nd post).

One of the main goals of this project is to amass teams both for people casually perusing the thread and for us to use as samples. We have had extremely few submissions so hopefully this will help with that. We also hope to generate more conversation and activity as always!

This week's prompt is....
:ss/torkoal:
Sunny with a Chance!
With this prompt we are looking for teams that are either Sun teams or built to withstand sun teams well. Will you build full sun? Semi-sun? A single sun abuser? Or will you go in the other direction and find some cool mon that checks sun really well?

You have until Friday night 5/7 at 11:59 PM EST to turn in your submission.
 

in the hills

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OM Leader
this challenge was very tough to build for in the not good way
Submission:
Pocketful of Sunshine
1619557568692.png1619557584987.png
So I started out with the super basic Torkoal+Venusaur sun core, except I decided to go with an interesting Magma Storm+Yawn set on Torkoal that utilizes the trapping to put Pokemon to sleep. After that, I wanted an strong breaker that was still fast enough to outpace the metagame without Sun up and nothing is stronger in the metagame than Darmanitan, which has fallen out of the spotlight since being unbanned at DLC2. Darmanitan's switchins are literally x when Sun is up, so good luck beating this beast in the sun. Next up I went with Corviknight for some added hazard control and pivoting. After that, I felt super weak to opposing Fire-types, so I added SD Garchomp to deal with those, plus Garchomp's switchins let in the sun sweepers for free. To finish this team off, I still felt weak to opposing Garchomp, so I went with Nasty Plot Togekiss to mess with it. Overall, this team is whatever, it's sun lol I don't expect much from it but feel free to try it out.
 

The Number Man

is a Community Contributoris the defending Other Metas Circuit Champion
CAP 30 Playtest Winner
sun seems hard to make work, but with summer right around the corner its a fitting challenge

Submission: Scarf Tran Sun aka sun's out guns out
:torkoal: :venusaur: :heatran: :tapu bulu: :garchomp: :thundurus-therian:

My team is pretty similar to ITH's, but in my defense i dont think you have alot of options for variation when building sun. Let's start with the overlaps.
Torkoal + venu is standard, my tork has Bpress so you can punish ttar for trying to reset weather on you. Venu is Grass/Fire/Ground so you dont get walled by tran. Garchomp i think fits sun well cause it checks opposing fires while not having its STAB nerfed by sun and also provides an elec immune. I basically copied ITH's chomper but made it SD 3 attacks (fire fang over shore up) since it lets you break past steel birds, thus not causing momentum loss on bird switchins which I think is very important for such an offensive team. I think coverage > longevity is better on such offensive teams since you probs arent winning a long game anyway. It's possible that DD Shore Up 2 attacks or SD Shore Up 2 attacks is better, so feel free to change that if you disagree with my reasoning.
The rest of the mons are Sap Bulu, featuring strength sap cause (yes, despite what I just wrote) I felt that being able to check garchomp longterm was more important than coverage as this team is extremely weak to it, so take this as an exception to the rule of coverage > longevity. Then there's Scarf Tran which I added for some out of sun speed control, a Fire type sun abuser and emergency fire move switchin. Last is Defog Thundy-T, to force decision pressure on Koko users, provide momentum, check tornadus, check bulu out of sun and remove rocks if torkoal cant do it. Also snipes TTar with Focus Miss.

E: shoutouts to QT for helping me with the Bulu set
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
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STABmons Samples are being updated (finally)!
We have one more team we are in the process of adding ^_^
Thank you to everyone who submitted teams!

- Thundurus-Therian Offense by in the hills

- "Flying Frogs" Zapdos-Galar Offense by in the hills

- "Beach Boys" Garchomp Offense by in the hills

1619557246502.png1619557257261.png1619557265419.png1619557584987.png1619842449199.png1619557568692.png - Zapdos-Galar Hazard Stack BO by Think

Specs Slowbro Bulky Offense: A Similar Concept by xavgb

- Bulky Garchomp Semi-Sand by drampa's grandpa
 
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Isaiah

The inner workings of my mind are an enigma
is a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Moderator
Submission:
1620113360855.png1620113369881.png1620113437710.png1620113441902.png1620113452401.png1620113456904.png
I can't believe it's not Tyranitar! (DD Dragonite Pivotspam Balance)
As the team caption implies, my main goal here was to build something that's decently prepped for sun without having to use Tyranitar, which seems/felt like the easy answer. To reach that end, I started out with Victini after realizing that it can compress speed control, pivoting, and run Lunar Dance support (this really piqued my interest because it's basically super-buffed Healing Wish) and combined that with Dragonite, which manages to absolutely dismantle [what I presume to be] common sun threats such as Venusaur with Multiscale + a great defensive typing. That being said, Dragon Dance Dragonite should need no explanation--it just clicks the setup move and hits things hard with Dragon Ascent. As for the rest of the team, I just finished off the teambuilding basics while trying to retain the idea of pivotspam until Dragonite can win. Regenvest Toxapex gives me a water resist/scald absorber/full HP Toxapex switchin and the ability to get Dragonite in fairly safely versus Venusaur, plus it gives me a pivot on particularly powerful Fire-types such as Eruption Heatran as well as any rogue Pyro Ball Darmanitans. Tapu Bulu ensures that I have a way to change opposing terrain, gives me neat speed control in the form of priority Grassy Glide, and another setup Pokemon to try and break/clean with. Corviknight fills out the defogger + flying-type that makes sure Excadrill doesn't 6-0 slot, and Seismitoad gives me Stealth Rock and a volt blocker so that I can at least keep Electric-types at bay. Overall, I think this team has a fairly serviceable matchup against sun teams in general but still retains the ability to perform well in regular matchups, too.
 

in the hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
OM Leader
Heyo, I thought I'd share my personal thoughts on the current state of the STABmons metagame:

Garchomp (as well as some additional thoughts about high BP moves)
To put it bluntly, Garchomp is broken. It's become pretty blatantly obvious over the past few weeks, it's incredibly strong with only a few reliable switchins in the tier, all of which struggle to actually beat it due to its bulk combined with Shore Up. Examples of "switchins" are Toxic Celesteela and Corviknight, which can U-turn into a revenge killer. While there are a few offensive checks, most notably Tapu Bulu, there's really some guesswork for other options since Garchomp can run either Dragon Dance or Swords Dance sets. There's really not much to say because it's just far too difficult to deal with in the current metagame, and this can be seen in all of our samples having a Steel/Flying Pokemon to attempt to beat it.

As it currently stands, I think that banning Garchomp is the most clear course of tiering action we need to take, but I do want to discuss an issue I've been noticing with STABmons since DLC2: offensive Ground-types in general have proven to be too difficult for the metagame to deal with time and time again. I bring this up because while Garchomp is broken now, I also think that Excadrill has already shown signs of being broken as well for similar reasons; Swords Dance sets with Shore Up and incredibly strong STAB moves is too much for teams to handle. So what's the issue here? Is it the strong STAB moves that make it too difficult to switch into, is it the added recovery option that makes defensive checks unable to properly kill these breakers, or is it some combination of both? This made me also think about some of our previous bans since DLC2 started, namely Landorus-T and Mamoswine. Landorus-T points to a combination of both, as it had both strong STABs and recovery at its disposal, while Mamoswine was purely strong STAB moves that broke it. From what I've seen, I think that the evidence points more towards the fact that Precipice Blades is just too powerful of a STAB move for teams to handle, and I wouldn't say Shore Up is the issue at the present moment.

I think that there's some real discussion to be had about the strain Precipice Blades causes on teams, as well as other high BP moves in general. I think that this generation's power creep has made it much more difficult for these high BP moves, both old and new, to be balanced. We have an abundance of strong breakers with strong moves, and only a few Pokemon that are solid defensively (that are also lacking some of the support tools from last generation, miss you so much Beak Blast ;-;) I don't think that a move having a high BP automatically makes it broken, but we're getting to the point that we have multiple strong breakers all abusing the same few moves to broken or borderline broken levels, and I'm starting to believe that needs to change. To be specific, the moves I'm referencing are Precipice Blades, Dragon Ascent, and Glacial Lance, all of which were (re)introduced in DLC2. I think that these 3 moves have warped the metagame in a pretty unhealthy way when given to the wide range of breakers we have at the moment. I think that if we do go down the course of banning Precipice Blades, these two moves should be looked into, while simultaneously looking back into adding Mamoswine and Landorus-Therian back to the metagame.

Rant about high BP moves done, I am honestly not 100% sure that banning Precipice Blades would be enough to stop Ground-types from being broken. While a drop from 120BP to either 100BP with Earthquake with a weakness to Grassy Surge users or 90BP with Thousand Waves is a pretty significant nerf in power, I'm not fully convinced that this alone will stop offensive Ground-types from being overwhelming. However, it's clear something needs to be done about offensive Ground-types and personally the idea of banning most or all of them sounds terrifying and sounds like it could be detrimental to the metagame. Based on that, I think I'm leaning towards looking into Precipice Blades soon, but I really wanted to open this part up for discussion.

Tapu Bulu:
Tapu Bulu has been brought up increasingly often over the past few months and I think that I am one of the only people currently against banning it at the present moment. My personal opinion on it is that while it does warp offensive options quite a bit, I do not think that this is necessarily unhealthy nor do I think it lacks counterplay to the point of being broken. To me, Grassy Glide is just a great anti-offense tool, and Tapu Bulu's impact is similar to how Rillaboom functions in OU (and how Rillaboom technically functions here as well, it just doesn't see nearly as much usage due to the competition). Tapu Bulu does have the benefit of being slightly stronger with better coverage and a mostly better defensive typing, but I do not think that Tapu Bulu has anything that clearly breaks it for me. Defensive counterplay is pretty widely available if people branch out from trying to check it with Corviknight, Ferrothorn, and Rotom-Heat. Offensive counterplay is a little more rough because many type-advantaged Pokemon like Thundurus-Therian and Blacephalon take huge chunks from Grassy Glide, but it's definitely possibly to offensively pressure it if you prep for it properly. While I think Tapu Bulu is incredibly potent as an offense check, I enjoy its presence in the tier and don't really agree with the notion that it's broken at the present moment.

General Thoughts:
While this post is pretty ranty about some specific things, I actually quite enjoy the current state of the STAB metagame. There's a lot of fun options that we've been able to work with since the recent bans, and I think we're finally out of the Tyranitar dominated metagame which is a great thing to see. The meta also feels super fresh and it definitely feels like there's a lot more to explore and discover so I'm really excited to see what OMPL brings us!

Also, these teambuilding challenges are super fun and help me get out of my teambuilding rut, other OMs should do them as well sometime imo
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
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:ss/groudon-primal:
:mamoswine::landorus-therian::garchomp::excadrill:

Precipice Blades has been RESTRICTED from STABmons by a council vote
drampa's grandpa​
in the hills​
stresh​
RESULT​
ABSTAIN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​

Physical Ground types have repeatedly proven themselves too powerful for the metagame. The council has decided that the move Precipice Blades is the easiest and least disruptive element to remove from this equation.

Nothing else is being banned or unbanned at this time. We will be keeping an eye on the metagame over this OMPL with an eye on suspecting Mamoswine and potentially Glacial Lance.

Tagging Kris
 
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:ss/groudon-primal:
:mamoswine::landorus-therian::garchomp::excadrill:

Precipice Blades has been RESTRICTED from STABmons by a council vote
drampa's grandpa​
in the hills​
stresh​
RESULT​
ABSTAIN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​

Physical Ground types have repeatedly proven themselves too powerful for the metagame. The council has decided that the move Precipice Blades is the easiest and least disruptive element to remove from this equation.

Nothing else is being banned or unbanned at this time. We will be keeping an eye on the metagame over this OMPL with an eye on suspecting Mamoswine and potentially Glacial Lance.

Tagging Kris
Time to run Thousand Waves on everything to avoid the terrain.
 

in the hills

is a Site Content Manageris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
OM Leader
Role Compendium
1. Utility

Entry Hazards:
Stealth Rock:

Spikes:
10% Forme

Toxic Spikes:

Sticky Web:


Hazard Control:
Rapid Spin:

Defog:

Court Change:


Clerics and Wish:
Heal Bell/Aromatherapy

Lunar Dance:

Wish:


Other:
Knock Off (Defensive/Utility):

Knock Off (Offensive):


2. Offensive Roles

Wallbreakers:
Physical:
10% Forme

Special:

Mixed:


Choice Item Users:
Choice Band:
10% Forme

Choice Specs:

Choice Scarf:


Setup Sweepers:
Bulk Up:

Calm Mind:

Coil:

Dragon Dance:

Growth:

Nasty Plot:

No Retreat:

Quiver Dance:

Shell Smash:

Shift Gear:

Swords Dance:


Priority:
Accelerock:

Aqua Jet:

Bullet Punch:

Extreme Speed:
10% Forme

Grassy Glide:

Ice Shard:

Mach Punch:

Shadow Sneak:

Sucker Punch:

Water Shuriken:


3. Defensive Role
s

Walls:
Physically Defensive:

Specially Defensive:

Mixed:


Pivots:
Flip Turn:

Parting Shot:

Teleport:

U-turn:

Volt Switch:

Regenerator:

Other:


Trapping:

Anchor Shot:

Spirit Shackle:

Thousand Waves:

Magnet Pull:


4. Weather

Hail:
Snow Warning:

Slush Rush:


Rain:
Drizzle:

Swift Swim:


Sand:
Sand Stream:

Sand Rush:


Sun:
Drought:

Chlorophyll:

Solar Power:
The STABmons Role Compendium has been updated! Check it out to learn more about the various roles Pokemon in this metagame serve!
 
This is a cool semi room team thats feels p good when I use it (i made it in 5 minutes tho).
:glastrier: :slowbro: :shedinja: :heatran: :rotom-mow: :clawitzer:
The idea is heatran + shed beat a lot a stuff as tran blankets a a lot of special attackers that threaten shed specifically fire moves while shed beats most chomps, drills, bulu, pert, koko, a bunch of other stuff and is a great momentum reverse with slow u turn and immune to all pivoting moves. Heatran also helps with ferro which shed cant hit. (Tran is annoying but almost always u turn against tran and it chips it out tho u can't use shed for a bit unless u fast u turn on a free switch.)Then I added claw cause thats was a mon taht I wanted to use and benefits from shed beating bulu nicely. Claw is slow so I added Tr support which also helps with gyara and zapdos. I still felt weak to those so I added rotom which is a soft check and it completes vulture with shed and is a nice seismitoad switch in. Finnaly I added glast which abuses TR and synergies amazingly with claw cause they share checks and sd glast just blows thru seis and like wise with claw busting bro. (Those are also like there only core that takes these on reliably which fail to beat rotom and non toxic seis)

Threats:
:tyranitar: annoying asf when paired with bulu cause it breaks thru my best CT but against u have to play aggressively and only 1 mon really lets it in(tran), but taunt means it can't heal and u can beat it quickly. For bulu glast is best bet but u just really gotta be aggresive.
:Nidoking:
Annoying 2 but ur breakers force it out u relaly just got to beat it before it beats u.

And thats all, hope u enjoy my team.
 
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drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
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Moderator
The current metagame is super centralized around a few powerful offensive threats, and anything that doesn't check or counter these Pokemon is probably trash.

The first three Pokemon I'd like to discuss are all Island Guardians, or Tapus. While they each have their own individual attributes that make them strong, there is one thing they have in common that deserves mentioning before I dive into each one, and that is the Surge abilities. They all summon terrain on switchin, and they all rely on this terrain for their power. Since at least one of these Tapus appear on almost every team due to how good they are what this effectively means is that matches frequently turn into Tapus revenging each other over and over again, with say Lele coming in on a Bulu, which switches out to a pivot/sack, which pivots Bulu back in, and then Lele switches to a pivot/sack, and gets pivoted back in. Anyone who watches any number of STABmons matches has seen scenarios like this crop up frequently, and the fact that all of Tapu Koko, Lele, and Bulu are incredibly difficult to switch into, especially mid-late game, turns this into a test to see whose team can bear the brunt of this one attackers hits longer.

Fini and all other terrain summoners (besides maybe Rillaboom) are obviously not broken and as such I'm ignoring them.

:tapu_bulu:
Tapu Bulu is the first of the three Island Guardians I will mention here. It's been a controversial figure in the metagame for quite awhile, and recently it has become, in my view, even more problematic than it was before recently. The rise of Garchomp has led to Bulu getting many opportunities to come in, while its wide coverage makes actual counters near nonexistent.

Bulu's easy access to priority and general ease setting up makes it a nightmare for almost any STABmons team. It has the old Extreme Speed issue: it's a strong-ass mon already, wants to maximize its power because it doesn't need to worry about outspeeding stuff much, and its main power attack is the same as its main sweeping/priority attack. Basically Grassy Glide is too spammable and condenses the set too much.

:tapu_lele:
Tapu Lele nukes everything in this metagame. Even AV Slowking isn't safe.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking in Psychic Terrain: 191-225 (48.4 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO

Lele forces extreme measures in the builder if you don't wish to be vulnerable to it. You either need something like Slowking + a Dark type, Magearna + never getting chipped, or perhaps most practically: offensive pressure. Tapu Lele isn't that fast, so if there's no slow Pokemon it can come in on it won't do much

I've been focusing on the Specs set because that what terrifies me most, but let me be clear, it has other excellent sets including CM + 3A, Choice Scarf, and the rare double dance.

:tapu_koko:
Koko is probably the most common of any of these, however it is the one I least want banned. It has some very good and reliable counterplay that would absolutely be used whether it was in the metagame or not, most notably Excadrill, which has recently become probably the best offensive utility mon in the metagame. Its speed and power are excellent, but it cannot smash through walls in the same way Bulu and Lele can.

I can see the argument for Koko being centralizing. It does practically mandate an electric immunity (or resist if you're cocky) that isn't weak to Fairy. But those exist, and are good. Marowak-A, Amoongus(s?), and Nidoking are all good. Tapu Bulu can check Koko well and abuse its presence to knock stuff around, while SpD Bulu takes... a lot admittedly but isn't 2HKO'd by Fleur Cannon from full.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Fleur Cannon over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Bulu: 288-340 (83.7 - 98.8%) -- not a KO

I'm not sold on Koko being the problem here, although I think if nothing else goes it may have to. I think right now it feeds on the unhealthiness of the metagame. My ideal way forward would be to look at other stuff and keep Koko in the back of our heads.

:weavile:
Weavile, and by extension Glacial Lance, has come up recently among the council. Personally I'm not sold on it being broken yet. Checks and counters such as Buzzwole, Tapu Fini, Magearna, and Tyranitar exist, and are absolutely not used solely for Weavile. Weavile struggles to get in and set up due to frailty, which it needs to do in order to reach its full potential with its best sets.

I want to see more arguments about Weavile and more replays of Weavile being broken from the pro-ban side.

IF we decide Weavile is broken I am on board with the train of thought that Glacial Lance is what should go. We already banned Mamoswine, and nothing except Glacial Lance is keeping it banned now. I could be swayed; it's always tricky to find the spot where you say a move is broken rather than the abusers.
 
Hiya, I'm back to respond to council posts yet again. I've been playing STAB fairly sporadically since the last time a council post was made and after building for a good while I've mostly come to the conclusion that the metagame is not in a terrible spot, but it could use with some power decreeping. I am, however, opposed to suspecting anything during OMPL, so quickbans are preferred here.

Some discussion in the STABmons channel in the Other Metagames discord prompted me to be a little more methodical with how I view these mons however, so these will have more clearly defined points instead of being in a relatively relaxed ramble.

:sm/tapu koko:
Tapu Koko
Is it unhealthy?
: Yes - Tapu Koko does not really give a lot of people room to move in the builder, and significantly punishes any Ground-type that cannot answer it. Its blistering 130 Speed and ability to abuse common pivots like Corviknight, Toxapex and the Slowtwins makes it hard to offensively pressure Tapu Koko, and access to Rising Voltage makes it exceptionally hard to answer without a hard immunity. This would be fine in some cases if it weren't for Tapu Koko's ability to U-turn out of all of its bad matchups to bring in a deadly wallbreaker, i.e Weavile, Terrakion, Cinderace, Aerodactyl, Starmie, Keldeo... the list could very well go on and on, but that's just how easy it is to bring pivot Koko + an uncommon wallbreaker and just mess with defensive cores on a consistent basis. The power level of STABmons effectively means that trying to eliminate all of the wallbreakers that Tapu Koko pairs well with is a pointless process - therefore I believe Tapu Koko to be the culprit in this situation rather than a partner like Weavile.

Is it centralizing, and what range of counterplay does it have?: Yes; and honestly, not a whole lot. SpDef Seismitoad and Excadrill are capable of taking two Specs Fleur Cannons, but this does not really stop Boots Koko variants from just forcing them in and clicking U-turn. On the other hand, U-turn punishers like Garchomp and Ferrothorn are unsafe and either fail to stop Specs from just clicking STABs or fail to adequately stop Boots Koko from pivoting around. Whilst you can fit Rocky Helmet onto certain Grass types like Tangrowth and Amoonguss, this only really makes you safe vs Boots variants - Specs variants can very easily break past these down to the sheer power of Rising Voltage. If this wasn't enough for you, Tapu Koko's access to Roost allows it to recover damage from Rocky Helmet + Iron Barbs / Rough Skin, making the punish even more inconsequential for Tapu Koko.

Some sidenotes: Even in the case of a well prepared team, Tapu Koko is an absolute brute in the endgame. When the opposing Ground types are worn down or outright KOd, Tapu Koko simply becomes an unstoppable force that even Grass-types have to be scared of, something the likes of Regieleki can't really claim. An example of Tapu Koko cleaning up like crazy can already be found in the first week of OMPL - once LBDC's Amoonguss goes down, Tapu Koko simply starts spamming its STABs, taking out 3 mons in the process and allowing Shiba to win the game.

My conclusion: Quickban Tapu Koko. Tapu Koko absolutely needs to be removed - its range of counterplay is simply too thin and it simply supports too much of the offensive metagame to really be a healthy presence at the moment.


:sm/tapu bulu:
Tapu Bulu
Is it unhealthy?
: No, except for Sleep Powder variants - Tapu Bulu is exceptionally strong, and is probably the most overpowered on this list, but it doesn't actually have any aspects that make it poor to play around, it may simply just be a case that Bulu is too good at abusing the metagame. Tapu Bulu's issue is that its counterplay is pretty much entirely decided around the last slot - this can mean some unexpected options such as Megahorn could very easily mess up someone's gameplan vs Tapu Bulu and put them on the backfoot. Aside from this, Bulu is fairly straightforward to answer, and just mandates good Grass resists rather than specific Pokemon in the same way that Tapu Koko does.

Is it centralizing, and what range of counterplay does it have?: Yes - it is actually somewhat expansive in terms of checks, but the broken part about Tapu Bulu is that final slot - no matter which check you choose, you are always forfeiting a matchup against a different Tapu Bulu, and this is what makes Tapu Bulu banworthy for me.

So, given this narrative, the checks I am compiling are for different variants, in a list format. Pivots that don't actually beat Tapu Bulu, but can take hits to the point where Tapu Koko can go into a revenge killer, are seperated by a |. This also goes for Pokemon that are good pivots into Tapu Bulu but aren't actual counters given Tapu Bulu has the correct sequence. Here goes:
SD +...
Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 56 Spe
- Grassy Glide
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- [Listed Move]

Strength Sap: :zapdos-galar: / :thundurus-therian: (PhysDef) / :aegislash: / :rotom-heat: / :tornadus-therian: (Pivot) / :tangrowth: / :victini: / :amoonguss: / :dragonite: / :slowking-galar: / :zapdos: | :corviknight: / :celesteela: / :buzzwole:
Play Rough: :aegislash: / :rotom-heat: / :victini: / :amoonguss: / :tangrowth: / :dragonite: / :slowking-galar: / | :corviknight: / :celesteela: / :tornadus-therian: (Pivot)
Stone Edge: :zapdos-galar: / :aegislash: / :tangrowth: / :amoonguss: / :dragonite: / :slowking-galar: (Needs 100 Def bare minimum) / :buzzwole: | :corviknight: / :celesteela:

Of these that check 3 variants:
:aegislash: / :tangrowth: / :amoonguss: / :dragonite: / :slowking-galar: (With defense investment) | :corviknight: / :celesteela:
(Niche options listed for completeness)
Sleep Powder: Simply imagine Strength Sap but the opponent has a chance to just completely lose their answer if you get a 2+ turn sleep
Megahorn: :zapdos-galar: / :thundurus-therian: (PhysDef) / :aegislash: / :rotom-heat: / :tornadus-therian: (Pivot) / :victini: / :amoonguss: / :dragonite: / :zapdos: | :corviknight: / :celesteela: / :buzzwole:

Choice Band [using Play Rough + Power Whip]: :rotom-heat: / :victini: / :amoonguss: / :tangrowth: / :dragonite: / :corviknight: / :celesteela: / :tornadus-therian: (Pivot)
Revenge Killers: :heatran: / :thundurus-therian: / :tapu lele: / :kyurem: / :melmetal:

The two things that stand out to me are the sets that check all 3 variants in one slot and Sleep Powder's ability to completely incapacitate those builds. This to me is something that might warrant a look into Sleep Powder itself, but Sleep Powder has not yet seen tournament usage from what I know, and therefore I will exclude it from this analysis. As for the Pokemon that check all 3 variants, the list is very limited, with two of these checks being very easy to push past (Aegislash, Dragonite) and two of them that are effectively incapable of properly answering Tapu Bulu (Corviknight, Celesteela). This leaves three Pokemon that can do it in one slot - this is pretty bad for a Pokemon with limited revenge killers, especially given that these Pokemon are not massively viable theirselves. However, the sets of Pokemon that check all 3 variants without suffering heavy chip are a bit larger, and not only that, they don't really end up overlapping that poorly.

My conclusion: Surprisingly, given the evidence above, you might think I hold a DNB position on Tapu Bulu, but I still lean towards quickbanning Tapu Bulu even after reviewing the evidence. A lot of these checks are not really answers in the long term, and given the correct partners, like Tapu Koko, Cinderace or Doom Desire Heatran, these Pokemon can very easily be overridden. Strength Sap is also slightly misrepresented in this case, where it is easily capable of staying alive and checking a multitude of threats throughout the game. The Sap set I think would actually be a really nice addition to the metagame if it weren't for its set variance, but alas, it adds up to Tapu Bulu being over the line for me.

:sm/weavile: :ss/calyrex-ice:
Glacial Lance / Weavile
Is it unhealthy?:
No - Weavile has not really had a lot of time to settle in the metagame at the moment. Whilst its answers are fairly limited, Weavile also doesn't have a whole lot of leeway to get in outside of certain pivot support, at which point Weavile still has to make a prediction. Weavile can often require quite a bit of support to get it operating at its maximum power - which whilst it is exceptionally powerful and is what I consider to currently be STABmons' best wallbreaker, it is not at the point where it is outright uncounterable. As for Glacial Lance, a case can be made for its unhealthiness in past abusers, which I have mentioned more reasoning down below.
Is it centralizing, and what range of counterplay does it have?: I don't really think Weavile is centralizing, but it does force the builder to go out of their way to try and find answers to it, so I would have to say Yes to this question. Most Weavile answers aside from PhysDef Pex (which is pressurable by Spikes, a wincon I've gotten multiple times with CB Weavile in roomtours) tend to be a little difficult to fit onto teams, but they are still reliable answers none-the-less. Checks like Magearna, PhysDef Scizor, Tapu Fini (I've been experimenting with Scarf recently, it's actually a pretty cool pivot), Heatran, Buzzwole - and of course, physdef Rotoms exist and do pretty well, but none of these are either long lasting or easily splashable onto a team. Tough one for me, I think Weavile needs more time.

My final verdict on Glacial Lance / Weavile is a little tough to decide honestly. I think that as a standalone element, Glacial Lance is not broken, but I would also like to mention that Mamoswine was a Pokemon we lost due to Glacial Lance. This ends up being a weird conundrum, where there have been Pokemon banned in the past due to the existence of a move and possibly new Pokemon becoming broken due to it too. I personally think the decision should be to wait for a few weeks after a Tapu Koko ban to properly evaluate Weavile or Glacial Lance in the current metagame, and then determine whether Glacial Lance or Weavile is the broken aspect. My vote goes to Glacial Lance - but is this truly worth it just to nerf one Pokemon?

:sm/tapu lele:
Tapu Lele
Is it unhealthy?
: No, honestly. Tapu Lele is to me the same way most wallbreakers are in STABmons; they're all very brutal Pokemon that can in theory 2HKO most Pokemon in the metagame, it just so happens that Tapu Lele is very consistent at doing this. Tapu Lele's rather mediocre base Speed also means it doesn't have very many openings that it can make by itself, which can make it rather inconsistent at being the breaker its often made out to be.
Is it centralizing, and what range of counterplay does it have?: Tough question. I would not say that Tapu Lele is centralizing enough, but it could indeed be centralizing once the power level of this metagame decreases a little. Whilst drampa's grandpa does mention that AV Slowking is not good enough of a resist, Boots Slowking can work fine. The major problem with it as a resist is that Specs Fleur Cannon can actually threaten to 2HKO Slowking if it opts in for the Defense investment, but thanks to how Regenerator works, it doesn't have to worry about this short term. Corviknight and Celesteela are both excellent answers if they opt in for more Special Defense investment too, and the likes of Magearna and Aegislash are both excellent short term answers. Not only this, but if Tapu Lele wants to get past other answers like Heatran and Ferrothorn, it needs to be nearly perfect on the prediction game. Whilst this is a pretty small list of checks, most of them are also counters, and it's not like there aren't other breakers in STABmons we are perfectly fine with being in the metagame with a small list of answers, like Thundurus-Therian, Aerodactyl and Zapdos-Galar.

My conclusion: Yeah I think this is a pretty obvious Do Not Ban from me. I don't think Tapu Lele performs nearly well enough in either matchups to be considered broken on either side of the spectrum - it is just a hilariously strong wallbreaker.

However, after addressing these concerns, I believe I have one more problem Pokemon not listed that could very easily get tipped over the edge if we aren't careful with how we go about this.

:sm/toxapex:
Toxapex
Is it unhealthy?
: Yes - this one is as simple as it being extremely frustrating to chip whilst also being a very intuitive pivot that just has general goodstuff moves on it. Ways of approaching Toxapex in STABmons are extremely limited; whilst Seismitoad is capable of trapping Toxapex, it is not actually capable of outdamaging Recover, often making it an unsuitable momentum sink. Other methods of counterplay like Rocky Helmet to punish Flip Turn often don't work due to Toxapex's access to Knock Off, effectively rendering these tactics inconsistent at best.
Is it centralizing, and what range of counterplay does it have?: No - Toxapex is likely to define the mold for defensive teams, and therefore wallbreakers will be attempting to find some way of exploiting it. Unfortunately, if Tapu Koko is removed, we may lose a good pivot to most (see: Skypex) variants, which may make approaching it very difficult, as it can simply just dodge most attempts to get momentum on it with Flip Turn.

My final verdict on Toxapex is likewise with Glacial Lance but with the same reasoning as Tapu Koko - Toxapex could very easily be too good of an enabler, but only time will tell if this actually ends up being true. If Tapu Koko stays however, I'd probably vote Do Not Ban if this was ever a test.

Onto miscellaneous mons I've been playing with;

:ss/starmie:
Starmie @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Steam Eruption
- Psystrike
- Ice Beam / Thunder

Starmie! This cute starfish surprisingly takes its middling 100 SpA very far in STABmons, having very few true resists in the current metagame. Most Pokemon simply get blown away by an Analytic boosted Water Spout, and the few that don't tend to lose to coverage or lose to mid-term pressure. Some water resists like Toxapex and Seismitoad can attempt to pivot into Starmie, but Psystrike will put them in their place. Given its ability to pressure common Water resists, it happily pairs well with Strength Sap Tapu Bulu, who not only appreciates Grass-types being worn down or outright eviscerated, but also appreciates the amount of free switchins Starmie gives it.

:sm/scizor:
Scizor @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Protective Pads
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Gear Grind
- U-turn / Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog / Swords Dance / Sticky Web


Ever wanted to have your Corviknight actually beat Weavile as well as actually beat the things its supposed to check like Tapu Bulu? Well you might not have the same bulk that Corviknight does, but you sure as hell have a mon that can beat both Weavile and Tapu Bulu! Enter defensive Scizor, a Steel-type that I'm a little ashamed has gone under the radar. Defensive Scizor is excellent at dealing with some of the metagames biggest nuisances whilst also being a powerful attacker in its own right. It's also a pretty powerful blanket check, being able to 1v1 even things like Dragonite, Zapdos-Galar and other rising stars like Kyurem and Glastrier.
:ss/cinderace:
Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Libero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fire Lash
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- U-turn / Gunk Shot

dumb HO variant (Cinderace) @ Life Orb
Ability: Libero
EVs: 152 Atk / 104 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick
- Electro Ball
- Work Up


I am honestly surprised Cinderace has not picked up that much usage. Despite a weakness to Rocky Helmet Garchomp, Cinderace still manages to crack open most teams, especially those that tend to pick Seismitoad as their Ground-type, something that is quite easy to exploit by using Tapu Koko or Play Rough Zeraora. Between teams scrambling for Tapu Bulu resists and teams generally not packing good resists to Cinderace's coverage, Cinderace tends to get a few good switchins and is capable of burning through the opponent's team midgame. If burning through midgame is not your cup of tea however, try building a HO with this stupid set I picked up from Galar OU. It's dumb, but it works, trust me.

:sm/dragonite:
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Dragon Darts / Roost
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance


Dragonite is highly overlooked now that Rotoms have mostly faded away from STABmons, and it is unlikely that they will return any time soon. Even if they were to come back, Dragonite's excellent defensive utility even with a set like this is still there to stare teams down the sights. Between being an excellent blanket check for sweepers, to being a great Fire / Water / Grass check, this mon has tended to find more spots on my teams than ever before, and I think due to the current state of the metagame it establishes a great niche over other Flying-type competition like Corviknight and Gyarados.
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Moderator
Fellow Stab-ers and Mon-ers,

It has been a fun ride leading this metagame, but my time doing so has come to an end. As time has gone by I unfortunately have not been able to dedicate as much time as I should to this position due primarily to real-world conflicts.

My fellow council member and one of our new room owners in the hills will be assuming the position. He has proven himself over and over, as a community member, other metagame leader, and STABmons council member. He has been the primary moving force on the council for months and I am extremely confident in his ability to help make STABmons the best it can be.

I will be remaining on the council for the time being. We will likely look for a replacement soon.
Thank you so much for all the support and all the amazing experiences you've given me leading this awesome tier.
:drampa:
 

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