STAB STABmons

[in the hills]

Hello everyone! Our first STABmons council survey is available here: https://forms.gle/Pq1ZgFmZQHZ87T3Y8
We look forward to how the meta develops in the upcoming OM Majors, if you haven't signed up yet you should!

 

[Giagantic]

Team Dump Time, varying qualities and types, some balance, some HO, some offense.

Team 1:
Basically the idea of this team is to begin with every one but Houndstone and end the game with Houndstone. Whittle away at the opposing team then when you know you can sweep, finish it by bringing in Indeedee then Tyranitar and finally Houndstone to sweep.

Team 2:
Offense team without Screens, play very aggressively. Azumarill is your emergency hazard clear and Cloyster is sashed to ensure it can setup on special attackers and live to potentially sweep.

Team 3:
Offense with a defensive core of Dondozo and Clodsire, the former being for things like Garchomp and Dragonite, the latter for special attackers and hazard clear / harassment.

Team 4:
Hyper Offense with Grimmsnarl as the screen setter, feel free to swap ceaseless edge for taunt or Thunder Wave. Azumarill is once again as much about offense as it is about ensuring you don't get mauled by hazard spam (sticky web especially) and to counter opposing screen setters with Raging Bull. Don't be afraid to sack things, this is all about offensive pressure and as such avoid switching too much. Very weak to fairy. Can swap Azumarill for a fire type like Volcarona to improve match up but at the cost of basically autolosing versus sticky web teams.

 

[Giagantic]

Giagantic's Personal Revised Viability Ranking (not affiliated with the council, the smogonati, cotta, or any other group and/or person...) said groups and/or persons are allowed to reference this and use it for their own nefarious deeds.

S Rank reserved for the best, the pinnacle, the meta defining!

S
Toxapex
Dragonite

S-
Garchomp
Cloyster

A Rank reserved for strong, viable Pokemon that are often central to the meta or strong enough to justify this ranking

A+
Ting Lu
Garganacl
Tyranitar
Cyclizar
Azumarill
Iron Valiant
Gholdengo

A
Iron Treads
Palafin
Kingambit
Skeledirge
Annilihape

A-
Slither Wing
Corviknight
Iron Hands
Sylveon
Baxcalibur
Weavile
Clodsire
Grimmsnarl
Great Tusk
Roaring Moon
Volcarona

B Rank reserved for viable Pokemon that don't quite define a meta nor are strong enough to justify being higher, but are fully viable nonetheless

B+
Gyarados
Iron Moth
Slowbro
Torkoal
Pelipper
Amoonguss
Meowscarada
Rotom-Wash
Rotom-Mow
Rotom-Heat
Scizor

B
Blissey
Slowking
Avalugg
Lokix
Houndstone
Wo-Chien
Glimmora
Salamence
Dondozo
Sandy Shocks

B-
Grafaiai
Gengar
Chansey
Alomomola
Indeedee

C Rank reserved for more niche Pokemon that often have glaring flaws or compete with higher ranks that do their job better
Scovillain
Revavroom
Barraskewda
Brambleghast
Ceruledge
Drednaw
Espathra
Gastrodon
Hatterene
Hippowdon
Hyrdreigon
Iron Jugulis
Leafeon
Magnezone
Mudsdale
Orthworm
Pawmot
Pincurchin
Quagsire
Quaquaval
Beartic

D Rank reserved for extremely niche Pokemon that in general should not be used or are Ditto (Ditto is only as strong as the Pokemon it copies)
Ditto
Slaking


*List may be updated depending on demand with additional ranks / re-ranks

 

[LBDC]

Hey, just a really quick post.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb 
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Cotton Guard
- Body Press
- Spiky Shield
- Grav Apple

I'm not sure if anybody thought of Breloom before but I made a set for it. Interesting, thanks to its Grass / Fighting typing, it gains both of Cotton Guard (+3 Defense) and Body Press (uses Defense boosts for damage calculations). Even more remarkable, it has also Poison Heal, which gives it a good, passive, recovery option. The plan I used is simple: play safe with Toxic Orb activation, by bringing it after a slow turn move (e.g Volt Switch or Flip Turn) (like in BH), setup with Cotton Guard, and ideally sweep. Obviously, faster, special attackers, which can often OHKO Breloom, should be removed before hand. I assure you, this thing is dangerous if not prepared for. Maybe I'll edit in a few ladder replay latter :)

---
On a side note, the council is done with the Survey! I'll leave to ITH the hard part of actually publish the results. In meantime however, I'll say that the the council will very likely conduct another slate at some point "soon". It will include problematic elements raised up in the survey, including Gholdengo, Cloyster, Cyclizar, and Iron Valiant (they'ree not set in stone afaik) Also, this wasn't annonced yet but pannu rejoined council! He will help us with the next tiering decisions to come. Welcome back!

 

[in the hills]

Thank you all for the survey responses! I'll share the results below:

On average, the opinions on the current metagame scored a 7.1/10

Next, we asked people's opinions on Terastallization. While 60% would support action if it happened, 70% believe it to be healthy for the metagame. Given the responses to the survey, it seems clear the focus right now is on Pokemon and moves than Tera.

Next we asked for opinions on the healthiness of specific Pokemon and moves. The scores are as follows:
-Gholdengo 3.2/5
-Cloyster 3.35/5
-Cyclizar 3.25/5
-Iron Valiant 3.2/5
-Ceaseless Edge 2.6/5
-Gigaton Hammer 2.6/5
We typically use 3 or 3.2 as the cutoff for voting, so we decided to vote on Gholdengo, Cloyster, Cyclizar, and Iron Valiant from this batch.

Our final multiple choice option was gauging opinions on RNG moves. The results were fairly mixed and we received a few comments that people felt only Dire Claw was an issue or that Magical Torque was fine, so we went through with voting on Dire Claw and Triple Arrows separately.

We also received a few written responses that did give us extra insight on some things to add to our watchlist, but nothing mentioned in the written responses was voted on for this slate as there wasn't much discussion outside of the written responses. I will highlight those responses later on when I go over our watchlist.

To summarize, we decided to only vote on Cloyster, Cyclizar, Gholdengo, Iron Valiant, Dire Claw, and Triple Arrows for the time being as they received notable support in the survey and from council. The results of the vote are below:

Vote	Fc	fissure	ith	lbdc	pannu	RESULT:
Cloyster	DNB	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN (4-1)
Cyclizar	DNB	DNB	DNB	BAN	BAN	DNB (1-3-1)
Gholdengo	DNB	DNB	BAN	BAN	DNB	DNB (2-3)
Iron Valiant	DNB	BAN	BAN	DNB	DNB	DNB (2-3)
Dire Claw	RESTRICT	RESTRICT	RESTRICT	RESTRICT	RESTRICT	RESTRICT (5-0)
Triple Arrows	DNR	RESTRICT	DNR	RESTRICT	DNR	DNR (2-3)

As a result Cloyster has been banned from STABmons and Dire Claw has been restricted!

So, with only 2 bans out of 6 things on our voting slate and a good amount of responses in our survey highlighting other threats, our watchlist is quite wide going forward. I'll shortly highlight the previously unmentioned threats below and open up the thread to more discussion.
Garchomp
Garchomp was mentioned a few times in the survey and for good reason. Garchomp was banned last gen for SD and Dragon Dance sets being too difficult to account for without a Corviknight and/or Weavile to revenge kill it, and this gen it's a little bit different. While the same can still be said, Garchomp has the added tools of Glaive Rush, which is stronger than last gen's Dragon Darts with the risk of being easier to revenge, and Tera. Tera is noteworthy for Garchomp because Dragon Dance sets can opt to run Tera Fire and Tera Blast to break right through Corviknight and resists Weavile's Ice Shard, which cuts out its two most classic checks (while albeit opening it up to other forms of priority like Jet Punch and Water Shuriken). Even if it opts not to run Tera Blast, it can run Tera Water to resist most common forms of priority. Even without Tera, its counterplay is fairy limited, Skeledirge for example has to burn its own Tera but is a solid check for the most part for any set.

Dragonite
Dragonite was the other commonly mentioned threat in the survey due to Dragon Dance and Choice Band sets that generally lack counterplay as well. Normal Tera Extreme Speed is the best speed control we have in the metagame and is incredibly difficult to switch into in its own right, especially when considering Dragonites other STABs and coverage, which already lack switchins. There's really not a solid check you can point to here for Dragonite, as everything fears one of its moves. Even Corviknight has to fear Band Fire Punch or getting overrun by Dragon Dance sets.

Rage Fist (Annihilape)
Rage Fist was brought up a few times as well, but oddly enough Annihilape was not brought up in the responses at all. This was a bit perplexing to me as Annihilape is undeniably Rage Fist's best abuser and non-native users honestly don't come close to it. I think Rage Fist isn't a pressing issue personally because other abusers are Ceruledge which is frail or Skeledirge which is weak even with a max BP Rage Fist, but I think Annihilape is a good option to put on our watchlist. I think an argument can be made for Rage Fist, but right now it doesn't make sense to restrict a move whose best abuser is its native user.

Houndstone
Houndstone was brought up by a few for the same reasons it was banned in OU, there's not much to it. It is noteworthy that Tyranitar is better here than OU so Sand Rush sets are stronger and checks like Ting-Lu have recovery, but otherwise it mostly does the same thing it did in ou.

Outside of our watchlist, we're working on resources still and hopefully will get them out soon if bans don't continue to shake things up too much. That's all for now!

Tagging Kris to implement Cloyster ban and Dire Claw restriction.

 

[Giagantic]

Hi folks, it is I, the team bringith'er! Behold 3 more teams I have been concocting!

______________________________
Team 1: Protosynthesis Team

^^Team Here^^

Hot Summer Day (Torkoal) @ Heat Rock Ability: Drought Tera Type: Water EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD Calm Nature - Torch Song - Will-O-Wisp - Stealth Rock - Rapid Spin	Torkoal is the proverbial weather setter and your standard lead, it can also perform supportive roles as a Rocker and Hazard Removal but should generally be kept as healthy as possible. Torch Song is a flexible moveslot and it can be changed to your fire move of choice whether that be Bitter Blade for some recovery or some other option. Tera Water is defensively great for Torkoal.
Painful Sting (Slither Wing) @ Life Orb Ability: Protosynthesis Tera Type: Bug EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly Nature - First Impression - Combat Torque - Earthquake - Leech Life / U-Turn / Morning Sun	Slither Wing is a beast both in and out of the sun, able to dish out immense amounts of damage to even resisted targets. It should be played in a hit and run style and as a result the final moveslot is flexible between U-Turn for Pivoting, Leech Life as a pseudo recovery and reliable stab and finally Morning Sun for actual recovery. Tera Bug is ran to boost the impact of First Impression to obscene levels.
The Sand Burns (Sandy Shocks) @ Life Orb Ability: Protosynthesis Tera Type: Ground EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Volt Switch - Electro Drift - Earth Power - Shore Up / Spikes	Another beast, Sandy Shocks is a threatening special attacker that is an immense threat to things like Toxapex whom fear the very soil it walks upon. Biggest road block for Sandy Shocks is inevitably Ting-Lu.
Toaster Oven (Rotom-Heat) @ Heavy-Duty Boots Ability: Levitate Tera Type: Fairy EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpA / 56 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Volt Switch - Torch Song - Freeze-Dry - Roost	Rotom-Heat is an excellent Spa attacker in it's own right and a pivot and sweeper all mixed into one. Freeze Dry gives it's basic stabs great mileage letting hit hit threats like Garchomp and Dragonite hard if not tera'd. There are two options for Tera, both are defensive in nature and are extremely important to take note of, one of the most unfavourable matchups is Great Tusk and Tera Fairy results in Rotom-Heat actings as a great check to Tusk and Garchomp. In contrast, Tera Steel lets it check both Dragonite and Garchomp to an extent but results in it losing to Great Tusk, personally I prefer Fairy tera.
The Harmless (Toxapex) @ Assault Vest Ability: Regenerator Tera Type: Grass EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Relaxed Nature - Flip Turn - Mortal Spin - Clear Smog - Steam Eruption	The Ultimate supportive pivot, that is what Toxapex is... Tera Grass is chosen simply because it resists ground, bug or flying would be more preferable if they didn't incur a SR weakness but it does and as a result grass is used.
Bowlway (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers Ability: Vessel of Ruin Tera Type: Flying EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Impish Nature - Earthquake - Ceaseless Edge - Foul Play - Shore Up	Hazard setter and the greatest wall on the team, Ting-Lu is capable of handling many threats that would otherwise demolish the team given a slight opportunity (Garchomp and Dragonite). Foul Play is used in order to prevent it from being too passive and acting as setup fodder to the aforementioned sweepers.

Team 2: Giagantic Rain Storm

^^Team Here^^

Big Mouth (Pelipper) @ Damp Rock Ability: Drizzle Tera Type: Ground EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA Bold Nature - Steam Eruption - Hurricane - U-turn - Roost	Rain setter, self explanatory right! Can also tank some hits and hit back with stabs.
Leap Frog (Greninja) @ Loaded Dice Ability: Torrent Tera Type: Water EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Water Spout - Water Shuriken - Fiery Wrath - Nasty Plot	Modest Greninja under rain with Water Spout at max HP hits like a truck that was on fire, and filled with dynamite. Modest is just because I wanted to maximize power and felt I rarely actually face many things that outsped it even without a speed nature. Loaded Dice is ran to Water Shuriken can act as a powerful stab alternative that can easily kill things one Tera'd. Fiery Wrath is self explanatory and Nasty Plot gives it the capability of destroying everything. Since it isn't speed nature'd watchout for prirority from things you'd usually outspeed with your own like Iron Valiant's Vaccum Wave.
Dinner (Barraskewda) @ Choice Band Ability: Swift Swim Tera Type: Water EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Adamant Nature - Flip Turn - Wave Crash - Jet Punch - Close Combat	Simply put, the physical rain staple and a monster that hits extremely hard, even resists, even tanky resists.
Flip Flop (Toxapex) @ Assault Vest Ability: Regenerator Tera Type: Grass EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Relaxed Nature IVs: 0 Spe - Flip Turn - Mortal Spin - Clear Smog - Steam Eruption	Not gonna repeat myself, Ultimate supportive Pivot(tm).
Lewis (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers Ability: Vessel of Ruin Tera Type: Fairy EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Impish Nature - Earthquake - Ceaseless Edge - Foul Play - Shore Up	Likewise, best wall in Stabmons, bar none.
The Lawn Mower (Rotom-Mow) @ Leftovers Ability: Levitate Tera Type: Poison EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpA / 56 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Volt Switch - Apple Acid - Electro Drift - Roost	Rotom-Mow is an important player that is capable of sweeper and tanking some weaker hits at the same time. It's Tera is an alternative to Fairy or Steel and has similar benefits regarding your matchup versus Great Tusk and fairies.

Team 3: Giagantic's Stabmons Team 1 (original name right)

^^Pokepaste Here^^

Groovy (Skeledirge) @ Heavy-Duty Boots Ability: Unaware Tera Type: Water EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Bold Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Torch Song - Infernal Parade - Earth Power - Slack Off	Skeledirge is a great unaware wall and bulky sweeper of sorts, but whereas most run Will-o-wisp I run Earth Power to hit ground weak foes because I find Infernal Parade to be consistent enough in regards to burning that I don't need Wisp at all. Tera Water is a purely defensive tera that helps with various matchups (like against rain teams).
Vroom Vroom (Rotom-Mow) @ Leftovers Ability: Levitate Tera Type: Steel EVs: 252 HP / 200 SpA / 56 Spe Modest Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Volt Switch - Apple Acid - Torch Song - Roost	Setup Sweeper, pivot, and relatively tanky at that, Rotom-Mow is great, however you can subsitute this slot with any of the viable Rotoms, though you matchups change based on it.
Toxic (Toxapex) @ Assault Vest Ability: Regenerator Tera Type: Grass EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Relaxed Nature IVs: 0 Spe - Flip Turn - Mortal Spin - Clear Smog - Scald	Final time, Ultimate Supportive Pivot.
Soup Bowl (Ting-Lu) @ Leftovers Ability: Vessel of Ruin Tera Type: Fairy EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Impish Nature - Earthquake - Ceaseless Edge - Foul Play - Shore Up	Also final time, Best Tank in Stabmons.
Polka Dot Door (Dragonite) @ Heavy-Duty Boots Ability: Multiscale Tera Type: Normal EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Adamant Nature - Extreme Speed - Dragon Ascent - Fire Punch - Dragon Dance	A monster... will probably be banned... yeah... pretty self-explanatory. Tera normal to boost Extreme Speed to crazy levels also makes Gholdengo's life harder, which is a bonus.
Pavarotti (Cyclizar) @ Silk Scarf Ability: Regenerator Tera Type: Normal EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature - Boomburst - Overheat - Rapid Spin - Shed Tail	The creme de la creme of the team, Cyclizar isn't just there to Shed Tail or Rapid Spin it is there to deal immense amounts of raw damage thanks in part to Boomburst being a bust move. Do not underestimate it's potency especially once tera'd.

 

[Giagantic]

Hello Folks, No teams today (I have a bunch of new teams but I ain't tested them enough to warrant uploading), instead I want to bring to attention the most problematic element in Gen 9 Stabmons, Dragonite.

Dragonite is a monster in Stabmons, it gains 2 high powered reliable stabs with manageable negative effects (Dragon's Ascent and Glaive Rush) which when coupled with it's high Attack make walling it as is difficult to say the least. This would be enough alone to bring it your attention but the real horror begins once you account for Tera Dragon / Flying which when run on Choice Banded sets let's it 2hko pretty much the entirety of the un-tera'd metagame.

This set is the staple of upfront power:
Dragonite @ Choice Band
Ability: Multiscale
Tera Type: Flying / Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Glaive Rush
- Earthquake / Fire Punch
- Extreme Speed

This set can break most teams in half, and doesn't account for the other set run by Dragonites, Dragon Dance. The following calc's illustrate how obscene it is and how similar to Chien-Pao forced defensive Tera's on some of the sturdiest Pokemon to even attempt to blockade it.


Ting-Lu is heavily pressured and faces a losing battle if un-tera'd.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Dragonite Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ting-Lu: 272-320 (52.9 - 62.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Dondozo even if EV'd for maximum defense and hp is still destroyed by Tera Stab Dnite and likely requires a defensive tera to specifically check it (which typically create another weakness to coverage options).
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Dragonite Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 288-340 (57.1 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Dragonite Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Dondozo: 144-170 (28.5 - 33.7%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Dondozo: 240-284 (47.6 - 56.3%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO


Corviknight can somewhat handle the stabs but faces a losing battle to Fire Punch Coverage.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Dragonite Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 153-181 (38.3 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 192-228 (48.1 - 57.1%) -- 42.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Even un-tera'd CB Dnite ruins Toxapex regardless of EV's.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Dragonite Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 177-208 (58.2 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery


Defensive Gholdengo just barely handles Tera'd Dnite Stabs but loses hard to Fire Punch or EQ.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Dragonite Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 164-194 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Dragon Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 274-324 (72.4 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This just highlights one thing from my perspective, that Dragonite is just too potent for the metagame and as previously mentioned this only covers one of the 2 primary sets ran by Dragonite, the other, Dragon Dancer Dragonite is equally as potent in a different sense. A single Pokemon shouldn't necessitate defensive Tera as the only practical response as this warps the metagame.

I suggest the council consider voting on Dragonite whether that be a Quick Ban or Suspect Test (preferably the former rather then latter).

 

[pannu]

Hey yall, now that the metagame has had a bit of time to adapt to the recent bans made from the slate the council decided to vote on some things that were on our watchlist to potentially further improve the meta. Heres the votes

Voting on:	ITH	Fc	LBDC	Fissure	pannu	Giagantic	Result:
Annihilape	Ban	Do Not Ban	Do Not Ban	Abstain	Do Not Ban	Ban	2/3/1; DNB
Dragonite	Ban	Ban	Do Not Ban	Ban	Do Not Ban	Ban	4/2/0; BAN
Garchomp	Ban	Do Not Ban	Ban	Ban	Do Not Ban	Ban	4/2/0; BAN
Iron Valiant	Abstain	Do Not Ban	Do Not Ban	Ban	Do Not Ban	Do Not Ban	1/4/1; DNB

As you might've noticed, Giagantic was added to the council! Congrats! Glad to have you on the team and I'm excited to work more with you in the future. Anyways, as a result of our votes, Garchomp and Dragonite are now banned from STABmons!

To briefly summarize the votes;

Annihilape has been brought up by many players since the initial tiering survey, proving to be quite potent in OM majors we decided to put it on this slate. Annihilape is scary as it's easily able to snowball through teams, its presence demanding that you always have Annihilape in mind when playing against a team with it, to avoid accidentally raising Rage Fists power, making it even scarier. Its also got access to a plethora of utility moves such as Taunt to avoid Haze from Toxapex or Rest to help with its longevity, making it even harder to deal with. It commonly runs Tera-types like Water, Poison, and Normal to help it flip the match up against potential revenge killers and use them as set-up fodder. However, a lot of the time it can be hard to set up; Pokemon that it should force out or use as set-up fodder such as Ting-Lu and Tyranitar commonly run moves to make its life hard like Whirlwind and Salt Cure. With a plethora of Pokemon that can hinder it such as Toxapex and Tera Garganacl, especially Iron Defense variants, and many breakers can threaten it out, or force it to terastallize if they get in safely, like Indeedee, Iron Valiant, or Palafin. Overall we didn't think its to overwhelming at this time but we'll keep Annihilape on our watchlist.

Dragonite was voted on due to how hard its switch into, with Dragon Dance sets being able to sweep through teams with its High Powered STAB moves like Glaive Rush and Dragon Ascent, as well as coverage for common defensive Pokemon with the likes of Toxapex, Gholdengo and Corviknight. Its worth nothing that Dragonite can hit everything that resists Dragon Ascent super effectively, so a lot of the time you would have to rely on naturally bulky mons like Toxapex, Ting-lu, and Dondozo to survive its hits, but even those could be overwhelmed by Tera-flying. It also had the option to run Extreme Speed alongside Tera Normal to better deal with teams that rely on beating it with Choice Scarfers. Choice Band Sets were also incredibly potent, as it had perfect coverage and could OHKO or 2HKO the entire tier. Reliably checking Dragonite was hard to do for almost any team, which is why its been banned.

Garchomp is very similar to Dragonite, wanting to spam its impossible to switch into STAB-moves. However, unlike Dragonite Garchomp has access to Swords Dance, making it able to overwhelm every defensive wall in the tier alongside terastallizing into either a Dragon- or Ground-type for more powerful attacks. Alongside a setup move and its stabs it could also run Fire Fang for the likes of Corviknight and other ground immune Steel-types or Shore Up for better longevity. Dragon Dance sets were also a possibility to shred through offensive teams, albiet struggling with physical walls like Dondozo and Great Tusk more. Being nearly impossible to switch into and hard to reliably check Garchomp thanks to its many different sets and coverage options we decided to ban Garchomp.

Iron Valiant was on the last slate, where it narrowly avoided a ban. Its ability to run a plethora of different sets like Choice Specs, Swords Dance, Choice Scarf, and Calm Mind and access to incredible moves such as Fleur Cannon, Triple Arrows, and Magical Torque make it a very scary breaker. However, this time we believe that its less overwhelming in the meta. Despite its status as an offensive threat many common Pokemon like Toxapex, Defensive, Gholdengo, and Corviknight wall all its sets, Only having to worry about Thunderbolt and Knock Off respectively. Pokemon like Great Tusk, Garganacl, and Garchomp could also Terastallize into Poison- or Steel-types to help deal with it depending on its set. Furthermore, for the choiced sets to really be effective relies heavily on guessing games and being able to get valiant in on the field safely. Non-Scarfed variants also have to deal with the plethora of faster mons like Cinderace, Meowscarada, and Choice Scarfers like Sandy Shocks being able to revenge kill it. The presence of reliable checks, as well as revenge killers being present, didn't make Iron Valiant broken enough to warrant banning on our eyes.

Houndstone was previously on our watchlist, however, we didn't decide to vote on it this time around as we all agreed its inconsistent and not overwhelming enough to warrant a vote.

Tagging Kris to implement, thank u

 

[in the hills]

THE STABMONS RESOURCES THREAD IS LIVE!!!
Check out our resources thread for our Viability Rankings and other resources! Sample Team submissions are still open as always, send stuff our way if you want it to be included when we add Sample Teams! Thanks!

 

[in the hills]

Happy Pokemon Day! As I'm sure most saw, we got 3 new introductions in the tier today with the two new paradox Pokemon and the Hisuian Zoroark gift. I'll go through some sets for them quickly and how much I expect them to impact the metagame.


Zoroark-Hisui @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Normal / Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Shadow Ball
- U-turn
- Focus Blast

Zoroark-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Normal / Fighting
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Nasty Plot

Zoroark-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Normal / Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hyper Drill
- Poltergeist / Knock Off / Rage Fist
- Low Kick
- Swords Dance
Just a few examples of what it could run... this mon is just gonna be flat out broken LOL. Illusion with an actually stacked offensive movepool and coverage off of insanely good stats is just uncompetitive to play against and probably is just broken in the first place. I don't expect this to stay very long so abuse it while you can. At least it checks itself so if you predict right every time and the opponent isnt carrying Knock Off you win!

Walking Wake @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Steam
- Dynamax Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Draco Meteor
Walking Wake's introduction is going to be pretty epic if you ask me, I think Sun will soon become a staple in the metagame and not only will Walking Wake be a great Water-type for it, other Water-types like Rotom-Wash will be neat tools for sun to utilize as well. I think Hydro Steam is a really fun move that doesn't seem broken since it's only 120BP in sun. With how common Rain already is and with Tyranitar still rising back up to its old glory, I'm excited to see how Sun being even better shakes up these weather wars, and i think Walking Wake will be at the forefront of that. For those unaware, 244 SpA evs ensures that you get +Spe on Protosynthesis boost.

Iron Leaves @ Life Orb
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Psychic / Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psychic Fangs / Psyblade
- Flower Trick / Grav Apple
- Strength Sap / Close Combat
- Swords Dance
Iron Leaves will be somewhat decent in the metagame, it has a way to beat most Dark-types with either its STABs or coverage. I think it's a bit mediocre to really shake up the meta a ton but it'll be an interesting niche pick to say the least.

That's all for now, I'm excited to see what you all think about the newly introduced mons and how you think they'll shake up the metagame!

 

[zuki_]

funny joke set i found

Arboliva @ Starf Berry
Ability: Harvest
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stuff Cheeks
- Boomburst
- Strength Sap
- Grav Apple

 

[RoFnA]

sup fellas, after playing about 150+ games in Stabmons across my different accounts I want to give my opinion on some meta stuff :)

I want to alk about the new released mons real quick:


Zoroark-Hisui @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Dark Pulse

In my opinion this Pokemon should go ASAP. As In the Hills already mentioned with Illusion and strong offensive moves like Boomburst, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast for Coverage this mon is really uncompetively.
I think the special variant is way better. Population Bomb could also work but it gets easily shut down by any rocky helmet user and Boomburst is just immediately threatening.
some calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Zoroark-Hisui Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 240-283 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Zoroark-Hisui Boomburst vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 191-225 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Zoroark-Hisui Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Corviknight: 168-198 (42.1 - 49.6%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (needs slight chip to 2hko Spdef Corvyknight)
And mons that resist Boomburst like Kingambit and Tyranitar get sent into oblivion with Focus Blast.

I don't even want to mention tera, which pushes Zoroark even more over the edge.
The only weakness is that it is very frail and can get easily killed with priority like sucker punch, banded jet Punch from Azu or First Impression by Lokix.


Walking Wake @ Choice-Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Steam
- Dragon Energy
- Flamethrower
- Spacial Rend

Palkia-Origin Lite. This thing does the same as it does in OU, just better. With the addition of Dragon Energy it gained literally the strongest dragon attack it could ask for. With a nearly unresisted Stab combination of Hydro Steam + Dragon Energy it does just crazy amounts of damage.
It can run either Specs with 252 EV's in SpAtk to get the SpAtk boost or 244 EV's to get a Speed boost.

252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Toxapex: 288-339 (94.7 - 111.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 256-303 (55.1 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 186-218 (46 - 53.9%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill in Sun: 149-176 (36.8 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

I don't think it is as broken as Zoroark but with tera it's just too overwhelming.

thank you for reading and I will plan to post my team that got me to #1 on the ladder

 

[Giagantic]

sup fellas, after playing about 150+ games in Stabmons across my different accounts I want to give my opinion on some meta stuff :)

I want to alk about the new released mons real quick:


Zoroark-Hisui @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Dark Pulse

In my opinion this Pokemon should go ASAP. As In the Hills already mentioned with Illusion and strong offensive moves like Boomburst, Shadow Ball, and Focus Blast for Coverage this mon is really uncompetively.
I think the special variant is way better. Population Bomb could also work but it gets easily shut down by any rocky helmet user and Boomburst is just immediately threatening.
some calcs:
252 SpA Choice Specs Zoroark-Hisui Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 240-283 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Zoroark-Hisui Boomburst vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 191-225 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Zoroark-Hisui Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Corviknight: 168-198 (42.1 - 49.6%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (needs slight chip to 2hko Spdef Corvyknight)
And mons that resist Boomburst like Kingambit and Tyranitar get sent into oblivion with Focus Blast.

I don't even want to mention tera, which pushes Zoroark even more over the edge.
The only weakness is that it is very frail and can get easily killed with priority like sucker punch, banded jet Punch from Azu or First Impression by Lokix.


Walking Wake @ Choice-Specs
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 12 HP / 244 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Steam
- Dragon Energy
- Flamethrower
- Spacial Rend

Palkia-Origin Lite. This thing does the same as it does in OU, just better. With the addition of Dragon Energy it gained literally the strongest dragon attack it could ask for. With a nearly unresisted Stab combination of Hydro Steam + Dragon Energy it does just crazy amounts of damage.
It can run either Specs with 252 EV's in SpAtk to get the SpAtk boost or 244 EV's to get a Speed boost.

252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Toxapex: 288-339 (94.7 - 111.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 256-303 (55.1 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 186-218 (46 - 53.9%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Hydro Steam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill in Sun: 149-176 (36.8 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

I don't think it is as broken as Zoroark but with tera it's just too overwhelming.

thank you for reading and I will plan to post my team that got me to #1 on the ladder

I wrote about this topic in the council discord at length but will cover it furthe for others. Zoroark-Hisui is one of the most unhealthy pokemon to grace Stabmons for quite a while, even more so then Dragonite, Garchomp, and even Chien-Pao, IMO. The reason for this is actually quiet simple, it creates guessing games for the opponent in such insanely unhealthy manner as it is in reality hard to scout out a smartly played Zoro-H. This guessing game is further compounded by the insanely powerful dual stabs it has and this is just the tip of the iceberg because as time goes on players will eventually dip further into it's massive normal type and general movepool and pull out numerous different tech options.

It is unhealthy because these mindgames aren't fair, they are reminiscent of pre-Team Preview era where you were in the dark about the teams structure and form. This isn't like regular Zoroark which is mono-dark which limits it and has plenty of checks, this is a Pokemon with great Spa and even better dual stabs that is capable of nuking basically everything with the right set.

Zoroark-Hisui @ Choice Specs
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Trick / Dark Pulse

This will probably be the poster child set, for it packs the biggest punch.

This Pokemon is inherently unhealthy, the only way to find out what's a Zoroark is to have progressed deep enough into a game to create the tells or just get lucky and snag it with some strong priority (like staying in on a Zoroark disguised as a Great Tusk with a Sucker Punch from a Kingambit). This guessing is antithetical to competitive Pokemon for unlike predictions which are based on a teams structure and archetype this occurs based on gut instinct which can be very wrong and often costs 1 pokemon every time it occurs.
Below is a glimpse of it's movepool which is insane, and this isn't all.

Hide

-Bitter Malice
-Calm Mind
-Nasty Plot
-Foul Play
-Knock Off
-Hone Claws
-Tidy Up
-Encore
-Infernal Parade
-Low Kick (0 Atk Zoroark-Hisui Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 316-376 (78.2 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO or 0 Atk Zoroark-Hisui Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 232-276 (57.4 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
-Population Boom
-Spirit Shackle
-Taunt
-U-Turn
-Transform
-Will-o-Wisp
-And More

Furthermore, here is a team I used to terrorize the ladder with losing only 1 in 20 games due to a gimmick catching me off guard. I battled many high Ladderers and didn't lose to a single one (the one lost to was low ladder sadly).

^ Team Here ^

 

[in the hills]

Zoroark-Hisui has been quickbanned from STABmons!​

Vote​	fissure​	gia​	ith​	lbdc​	pannu​	RESULT​
Annihilape​	ABS​	ABS​	DNB​	DNB​	BAN​	DNB (1-2-2)​
Walking Wake​	BAN​	BAN​	ABS​	ABS​	ABS​	No conclusion (2-0-3)​
Zoroark-Hisui​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN​	BAN (5-0)​

Following our first vote, we discussed some more given the >50% abstain vote and decided to vote whether or not to suspect Walking Wake. The results are as follows:

Vote​	fissure​	gia​	ith​	lbdc​	pannu​	RESULT​
Walking Wake​	SUSPECT​	SUSPECT​	SUSPECT​	SUSPECT​	SUSPECT​	SUSPECT (5-0)​

Following this post, Zoroark-Hisui is banned! Walking Wake suspect soon!
Zoroark-Hisui very unsurprisingly was broken given its Illusion ability paired with Boomburst and insane offensive abilities. Previous posts will explain more, though it should be pretty obvious if you've played against it why it was incredibly unhealthy for the metagame. Walking Wake suspect will drop soon- Walking Wake has been pretty contentious so far due to Choice Specs and Life Orb Sun sweeper sets, with some arguing that Sun is too big of a detriment for it to be broken right now. Hopefully those who ladder the suspect will get to face it more and we will get a conclusion on this beast.

Tagging Kris to implement Zoroark-Hisui ban.

 

[LBDC]

My bus is blocked at least for 20-25min, so I guess it is team dump time. Bear with me, I'll try to be interesting as possible.

For those who don't know, there were recently a teamtour that featured STABmons, named OML (Other Metagame League ) in the French community, and it was won by PandaDoux team (Lummy Neon) against the team I was in. Smh. Nah, congratulations, once again. Anyway,



Sun team used against PandaDoux in W1 (I lost the game, by a close margin, but lost). There was no real reason to go with Sun, I just wanted to try it out and surprise everybody. The main sweepers are LO mixed Scovillain and Choice Scarf Charizard; I think btw that are both underestimated as sun sweepers, Scovillain just do damages and so is Charizard. Roaring Moon and Iron Moth both abuse of the sun to wall break; Iron Moth is kinda the "Toxapex breaker" here with boosted Discharge. After all, may I remind you that Torch Song is just super strong? Oh and yeah Tusk got a sun boost, even if today I'd probably go with a Covert Cloak set. A good team overall, that show a Walking Wake-less Sun.



First, disclaimer: this wasn't built by me, but by user Maybca☆〜ゝ。∂ and lemonstre1 . The idea was to use Iron Hands Punching Glove. What the heck is this item? I didn't know either what it was, so I thanks for surely the hundred time Maybca for bringing up this item. It is basically a mix of Protective Pads (so no contact) and Muscle Band on Punch moves (x1,1 on these moves). At this point, you probably think "but LBDC.. Isn't that super situational?". I thought it was, too but in the game I ran on a Toxapex / Corviknight structure with both of them being Rocky Helmet. So, yeah it was a nice game. Rest of the team I think is pretty classic.
though, I should mention Amoonguss. I think it is currently a really really good defensive Pokémon: Grass / Poison gives it useful resistance, like Fighting, Fairy, and Water, and its stats are good. Poison-type is also kinda broken on the movepool side , with acess to Mortal Spin and Corrosive Gas. It has Strength Sap too lol. Foul play is an necessity to damage (non-Recover) Gholdengo.



I, once again, didn't built this team (it is yet Maybca) but I think it is a fairly simple team. Roaring Moon is great to wallbreak opposings teams, Gholdengo scarf is really cool as a speed control tool, and once again, Amoonguss finish the defensive core. I cannot stress how much I like the utilities that Amoonguss bring in, good stuff.



Disclaimer: this team is now illegal, as it has Zoroark-Hisui. I'm glad we banned this monstrosity though lol.

Anyway yeah this was final, I was matched up with PandaDoux, once again, so I wanted to try out the new toy Zoroark-Hisui. I knew I wanted WA Clodsire to block any slow flip turn Panda often brought (Toxapex, Dondo) and to be prepared against Walking Wake. For extra safety I even included Tyranitar to have an weather control tool, in case this team was facing Sun. You can see I was somewhat paranoid of Walking Wake because I put Protect on the 4th move of Tyranitar, just to be safe against any Specs set that could have Dragon Energy my Clodsire. That being said, I actually think Protect is a decent option on Tyranitar if used along Salt Cure, as it can accumulate passive damage. Clodsire has Haze to beat out setup sweepers like Torch Song Rotom-H / -Grass that could have beaten it otherwise. Zoroark-Hisui + Lokix is my offensive core, my idea was that Illusion could have made the decision more difficult against U-turn spam but it didn't work so well. Rotom-W and Corviknight are just defensive backbone, I'll say that Mirror Armor on Corviknight is definitely interesting against Thundurus Kick Tusk. I've lost to Tusk anyway in the actual game because Covert Cloak is an absolute OP item, ban it already!! xD
this game didn't mattered at all, it was over to this point btw and it was Palapapop that was playing. (don't be confused, my opponent is trying to impersonate me but we all know which one is the real lbdc...)

This post is already fairly long, so I'll conclude here. Thanks for reading, and play STABmons!

 

[in the hills]

Decidueye was just released through the new Raid event! Here's two new sets to try out with it:

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rage Fist
- Trailblaze
- Swords Dance
- Strength Sap

Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Long Reach
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rage Fist
- Grav Apple
- Cotton Guard
- Strength Sap

Decidueye seems like a more fun Rage Fist user than Brambleghast for its better bulk and access to Swords Dance, which is pivotal in making Rage Fist work as best as possible. Its better bulk also makes it a fairly decent Great Tusk switchin, so spin blocking might be a little easier in the metagame now. I chose Tera Poison since Toxapex is a pain for it

 

[Ahpel the applin water]

Ello experienced players and newbies, hope you're having a wonderful day!
please how do i counter this help https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9stabmons-1825021070

 

[MurderousMantyke]

Ello experienced players and newbies, hope you're having a wonderful day!
please how do i counter this help https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9stabmons-1825021070

The main thing about denying Belly Drum Azu is not giving it a chance to set up. You know that if you faint their pokemon then they can bring in their Azu, so try not to KO opposing pokemon with mons that allow Azu easy setup (especially true for Choice Item users or something like Weavile that cannot significantly damage it. In the future, it'd prolly be best to ask this kind of thing in the OM room in Pokemon Showdown rather than the Smogon Megathread.

 

[Ryan5374]

What's with all the combat torque/collision course on defensive Tusk? Body press does marginally better damage but also gets boosted by sun and ignores intimidate/bitter malice.

208+ Def Great Tusk Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 70-83 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Great Tusk Combat Torque vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 68-81 (16.8 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO

 

[LBDC]

What's with all the combat torque/collision course on defensive Tusk? Body press does marginally better damage but also gets boosted by sun and ignores intimidate/bitter malice.

208+ Def Great Tusk Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 70-83 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Great Tusk Combat Torque vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 68-81 (16.8 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO

That's a nice idea actually. I'm sure people just doesn't have caught up with it.

Ello experienced players and newbies, hope you're having a wonderful day!
please how do i counter this help https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9stabmons-1825021070

In addition of what MurderousMantyke said, I'd also add that some defensive checks are available: Haze WA Clodsire and Unaware users like Dondozo and, if you're willing to defensive Tera, Fairy-type Skeledirge. For most team, pressuring Azumarill is the still the best way (of dealing with it) but for some defensive check might a option.

As a side note, I think the current meta is pretty good. HO is viable but so are BO and balance. In particular, I enjoy how widely accessible is entry hazards removal: it is really easy to fit into teams and that's GOOD. Walking Wake *is* an issue but the suspect test should address this issue hopefully.

 

[Giagantic]

What's with all the combat torque/collision course on defensive Tusk? Body press does marginally better damage but also gets boosted by sun and ignores intimidate/bitter malice.

208+ Def Great Tusk Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 70-83 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Great Tusk Combat Torque vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 68-81 (16.8 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO

In general there isn't a good reason to run Collision Course on Great Tusk because it has low pp and generally things that get hit supereffectively die regardless of the move. Combat Torque is a viable alternative to Body Press because of it's paralysis chance. In general though, the best moves to run on any Great Tusk is either Thunderous Kick (for reliability) or Triple Arrow (if lucky) due to it allowing Great Tusk to break defensive switchins such as Dondozo which otherwise are capable of setting up on Great Tusk (though beware of Covert Cloak, it is a great item afterall).

 

[MurderousMantyke]

Body press does marginally better damage but also gets boosted by sun and ignores intimidate/bitter malice.

208+ Def Great Tusk Body Press vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mew: 70-83 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO

Sun doesn't actually boost Body Press, as Protosynthesis is a stat modifier and not a formal stat boost (such as Iron Defense). The only modifier that can boost press is Choice Band, as weird as it sounds, along with similar Attack stat modifiers that aren't stat changes like Huge Power.

 

[Ryan5374]

In general there isn't a good reason to run Collision Course on Great Tusk because it has low pp and generally things that get hit supereffectively die regardless of the move. Combat Torque is a viable alternative to Body Press because of it's paralysis chance. In general though, the best moves to run on any Great Tusk is either Thunderous Kick (for reliability) or Triple Arrow (if lucky) due to it allowing Great Tusk to break defensive switchins such as Dondozo which otherwise are capable of setting up on Great Tusk (though beware of Covert Cloak, it is a great item afterall).

This is true, and I suppose thunder kick will weaken body press anyway

 

[doot_]

Want to try something new? Struggling to break through defensive cores (that don't include steel types)? Need a very niche emergency water resist?
Introducing Flapple!

Flapple, while looking quite unassuming at first, is a monstrous wallbreaker and sometimes sweeper in STABmons (provided you've chipped down or fainted the steel types on the opposing team). This mon's selling point is the sheer amount of damage it can dish out in just one or two turns. After a Dragon Dance boost, along with Hustle and a Life Orb, this mon is able to OHKO some of the bulkiest and tankiest walls out there. It's STAB combination of Grass and Dragon allows it to hit many walls for neutral or super effective damage. An added benefit of Grass STAB is that it gives Flapple Flower Trick, a move that doesn't check accuracy, which negates Hustle's downside, essentially just making it a free Choice Band boost. But enough talk, let the numbers do the talking!
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Flapple Flower Trick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl on a critical hit: 538-634 (133.1 - 156.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Flapple Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 273-321 (89.8 - 105.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Flapple Flower Trick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ting-Lu on a critical hit: 554-655 (107.7 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Flapple Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 458-539 (106 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also, with the right amount of support, it may be able to break through the steels that could check it before!
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Flapple Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 253-300 (73.5 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Flapple Glaive Rush vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 265-312 (84.1 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Tera Dragon Flapple Glaive Rush vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 237-279 (59.3 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sadly, there are a lot of glaring flaws with Flapple. The biggest one being that it is really, really frail. Flapple takes a lot of damage from strong priority moves like Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, and especially First Impression and Ice Shard. A Steel Tera can help in this regard, but you're both losing your Tera and exposing yourself to the deadly Jet Punch. It is also somewhat slow, even after a Dragon Dance boost. The most common Choice Scarfers like Iron Moth and Gholdengo can easily outspeed a +1 Flapple and KO it. Another large flaw of Flapple is that it is chipped down really easily, from hazard damage, to Rocky Helmet damage, to Life Orb damage. Other item choices like Choice Band and Heavy Duty Boots can work too, but they all have their own issues, like being able to be played around easier, or not doing enough damage.

Overall, Flapple is a very niche, but powerful, wallbreaker. It can do great things, but only with the right team support and at the right time. Even still, it's a very fun Pokemon to use and I hope someone better at this game can pick them up and make wonders with this flying apple. If you call now at 1800-BUYTHISAPPLE, you can get one Corviknight check on your next Flapple purchase, absolutely free!

 

[in the hills]

ITH's Metagame Thoughts
Given that Open is getting down to the wire, I figure I'd post some thoughts on metagame trends the past month or so. The increased ladder activity is phenomenal and gives us a lot more opportunities to test and break things and having the Walking Wake suspect right before Open definitely helped drive some trends a bit. Overall the metagame has been fun to play and even with a few issues has felt pretty healthy. We'll likely have a VR update out within a few days or so that we've been voting on the past week and will reflect said metagame changes. Anyways, I do want to go over some of the things that have been present and unhealthy in the metagame throughout the suspect and in Open.


The elephant in the room really, prior to March there really weren't any viable Shed Tail teams whatsoever, seeing close to 0 usage in Majors and when it was used it did absolutely nothing. Since then, Shed Tail teams have cropped up everywhere and with the realization that slow pivot (usually Toxapex) into Encore Cyclizar is incredibly broken, here we are. There can be an argument made about Cyclizar vs Shed Tail as a whole, but ultimately I consider Shed Tail itself to be uncompetitive and that is generally the shared opinion across multiple tiers at this point, and for whatever reason the Walking Wake suspect ladder was filled with Orthworm teams that, while worse, still posed the same unhealthiness that Cyclizar Shed Tail teams do. I expect us to vote on Shed Tail this week, but feel free to share your thoughts in the thread regarding it.


Another issue that has cropped up, though less obvious, is whether Kingambit/Gigaton Hammer are broken. This one is a bit tricky as arguments can be made either way that Kingambit may still likely be broken without Gigaton Hammer or that Bisharp/Scizor/Revavroom/etc. will still break Gigaton Hammer if Kingambit is banned. Ultimately, I do think it is a bit of both but if/when the time comes it'll only be one banned to start most likely, so I do want to hear more from others on the issue. If I had to choose one, the more I think about it the more I lean towards Kingambit. Its bulk and Supreme Overlord make it incredibly difficult to deal with, especially when paired with Tera Flying. While Gigaton Hammer allows it to OHKO some defensive Tusk spreads at +2, Tera Flying hard stops any Tusk set in its tracks since it takes close to 20 max from Great Tusk's most common moves. Other checks are rather limited, though offensive pressure from things like Specs Valiant are the best bet (although on ladder you will undoubtedly run into random Bullet Punch Kingambits). I'm not sure a vote is imminent on either Kingambit or Gigaton Hammer, so opinions are really helpful here to help move a decision forward.

Otherwise, there's nothing particularly close to my radar personally. There's been some calls for Tera or other things but atm I don't find anything else to be pressing. As an added bonus, here's a team dump from the past month that I've been meaning to post. Teams are posted chronologically not by any kind of quality so use some at your own risk lel
- Shed Tail BO
- intro to Mortal Spin Iron Moth (team i used for WW Suspect)
- eject pawmot thing i reworked from some standard tier idea
- Rage Fist Decidueye
- Lokix Webs
- the CLOD
- Ting-Lu Screens (idea courtesy of Fissure)
- Triple Ground Balance
- Slowbro
- Cyclizar Balance feat. Annihilape (do not recommend)
- Dual Gambit hazard spam
- Arboliva Balance
Dark BO