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Stall in NU - CCAT
- Thread starter DTC
- Start date
- Status
I'm going to vote for erisia.
fixed for me :P
Receiving a whopping four votes TropiOUs's Tropius is the winner and will be the foundation of our stall team.
@ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
- Air Slash
Here is the set we will be basing our team around, feel free to nominate Pokemon you feel would make a good partner for Tropius. Are we going to add hazards next? Or focus on someone who can tank the myriad of weaknesses that tropius brings to the table? Let me hear your ideas!
btw I'm taking this over for DTC :)
Trait: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
- Air Slash
Here is the set we will be basing our team around, feel free to nominate Pokemon you feel would make a good partner for Tropius. Are we going to add hazards next? Or focus on someone who can tank the myriad of weaknesses that tropius brings to the table? Let me hear your ideas!
btw I'm taking this over for DTC :)
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic
Quagsire is a staple on many stall teams and has great type synergy with Tropius. It can handle Pokemon that trouble it such as Skuntank and Rock Blasters while also stopping dangerous set up sweepers. Additionally, Quagsire lures in grass type attacks which Tropius can easily switch into.
Flareon @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Lava Plume
- Protect
Specially Defensive Flareon. Fire-type is not that bad of a specially defensive typing. It does a decent job vs Magmortar (who's strongest move is HP Ground or, more realistically, unSTAB Focus Miss) and other specially based special attacks (except Water-type, which is one of the few common specially offensive type that hit Flareon SE). Wish and Heal Bell to remove status / heal up any pokemon that doesn't have recovery. Lava Plume to get burns and not be complete set up fodder. Protect is to assure that wish heals us and to scout. The reason I'm suggesting him over Lickilicky is because FWG core would be pretty good (I was thinking of Flareon / Trop / Quagsire) to have on a stall team, and he doesn't take SE Focus Blast. Also, he has better type synergy with Trop than Licky does(He takes Fire and Ice moves aimed at Trop, while Trop takes care of Water and Ground moves. Both are weak to rock though, which is why Quagsire would be a nice addition to the team).
Tropius' two biggest stumbling blocks are Duosion and other Grass-types, especially defensive ones like Meganium and Vileplume that can easily take an Air Slash.
For that, I'd say:
@Leftovers
EVs: 252HP, 156Sp. Def., 100Sp. Atk
Calm Nature (+Sp. Atk, - Atk)
~Knock Off
~Roost
~Hurricane
~Hydro Pump/Scald/U-Turn
Knock Off helps to neutralise Duosion, and Hurricane is a guaranteed 2HKO once Eviolite has been removed. 156Sp. Def EVs also always prevent it from being 2HKO'd from Tangela's HP Rock. Hurricane also heavily dents Grass-types. You can either go with Hydro Pump or Scald in the 4th moveslot to wash out Fire- and Rock-types (particularly Golem, whose Rock Blast can ruin Tropius' day), or U-Turn to conserve momentum (sadly, Pelipper does not learn Whirlwind).
For that, I'd say:
EVs: 252HP, 156Sp. Def., 100Sp. Atk
Calm Nature (+Sp. Atk, - Atk)
~Knock Off
~Roost
~Hurricane
~Hydro Pump/Scald/U-Turn
Knock Off helps to neutralise Duosion, and Hurricane is a guaranteed 2HKO once Eviolite has been removed. 156Sp. Def EVs also always prevent it from being 2HKO'd from Tangela's HP Rock. Hurricane also heavily dents Grass-types. You can either go with Hydro Pump or Scald in the 4th moveslot to wash out Fire- and Rock-types (particularly Golem, whose Rock Blast can ruin Tropius' day), or U-Turn to conserve momentum (sadly, Pelipper does not learn Whirlwind).
Cryogonal @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe , -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Cryogonal can switch into and wall most special Ice attacks coming from the likes of Ludicolo and other rain sweepers. It also provides spin support for Tropius and the team. On its own Cryogonal is a decent special sweeper that also has good special bulk. They share Fire and Rock weaknesses though so the rest of the team will have to cover that.
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe , -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Ground]
Cryogonal can switch into and wall most special Ice attacks coming from the likes of Ludicolo and other rain sweepers. It also provides spin support for Tropius and the team. On its own Cryogonal is a decent special sweeper that also has good special bulk. They share Fire and Rock weaknesses though so the rest of the team will have to cover that.
Omanyte @ Eviolite
Shell Armor
252HP/252Def/4Spdef
Bold (+Def -Atk)
~ Scald
~ Spikes
~ Stealth Rock
~Toxic
Tropius will really like some hazard support and I think Omanyte will offer more to us then Garbodor, Omanyte can also tank hits from the flying-types that are the bane of Tropius. Spikes and Stealth rock are both very important to a team based on stalling things out with Tropius. Also we can easily add toxic spikes later but the combination of SR + Spikes is very limited in NU.
I'm going to keep nominations open a little longer before we go to a vote :)
Shell Armor
252HP/252Def/4Spdef
Bold (+Def -Atk)
~ Scald
~ Spikes
~ Stealth Rock
~Toxic
Tropius will really like some hazard support and I think Omanyte will offer more to us then Garbodor, Omanyte can also tank hits from the flying-types that are the bane of Tropius. Spikes and Stealth rock are both very important to a team based on stalling things out with Tropius. Also we can easily add toxic spikes later but the combination of SR + Spikes is very limited in NU.
I'm going to keep nominations open a little longer before we go to a vote :)
I've used this tropius set a lot in the past and though toxic spikes are standard on stall teams, I would like to point out how much tropius appreciates paralysis support.
While there are a couple of things that can get passed tropius with all sorts of tricks very few can actually do so when they are paralyzed. Anything with a very powerful super effective reliable move can usually kill tropius before dying to toxic (especialy if they are faster). However, if they are paralyzed tropius can just sub until he get's an eventual free sub after parahax. Tropius also has a lot more facility to set up on slower enemies in general.
While many pokemon with reliable recovery will be much easier to take out with toxic, paralyze can still give a secondary role to tropius that will help deal with those who don't completely wall air slash: Paraflinch. With seeds help, tropius nearly always wins on the long term and with 32 pp of air slash he can prey for hax for a very long time.
Of all the paralyzed pokémon, only a few can reliably check tropius with either heavy special bulk and reliable recovery or the usual taunt, perish song, encore.
Paralyze is also slightly more useful to beat duosion (with something else than tropius). It's still much easier to spread toxic through toxic spikes though.
While there are a couple of things that can get passed tropius with all sorts of tricks very few can actually do so when they are paralyzed. Anything with a very powerful super effective reliable move can usually kill tropius before dying to toxic (especialy if they are faster). However, if they are paralyzed tropius can just sub until he get's an eventual free sub after parahax. Tropius also has a lot more facility to set up on slower enemies in general.
While many pokemon with reliable recovery will be much easier to take out with toxic, paralyze can still give a secondary role to tropius that will help deal with those who don't completely wall air slash: Paraflinch. With seeds help, tropius nearly always wins on the long term and with 32 pp of air slash he can prey for hax for a very long time.
Of all the paralyzed pokémon, only a few can reliably check tropius with either heavy special bulk and reliable recovery or the usual taunt, perish song, encore.
Paralyze is also slightly more useful to beat duosion (with something else than tropius). It's still much easier to spread toxic through toxic spikes though.
Voting Time! Please take this seriously :)
Bold one of the following in your post, also explain your reasoning or it will not be counted. You don't need a tl;dr but 2-3 sentences would be nice.
FLCL's Quagsire
The Reptile's Flareon
Axa's Pellipper
No Luck Involved's Cryogonal
Raseri's Omanyte
Voting will remain open until June 14th or when a comfortable majority has been established
Bold one of the following in your post, also explain your reasoning or it will not be counted. You don't need a tl;dr but 2-3 sentences would be nice.
FLCL's Quagsire
The Reptile's Flareon
Axa's Pellipper
No Luck Involved's Cryogonal
Raseri's Omanyte
Voting will remain open until June 14th or when a comfortable majority has been established
At first, I wanted to vote for Quagsire. However, Omanyte fits the synergy bill better than Quagsire. Omanyte takes the Ice, Fire, and Rock moves aimed at Tropius, while also laying down hazards and being a Bird check. Meanwhile, Tropius can switch in on Ground, Grass, or Fighting moves that target Omanyte. The synergy between the two is great, and as an added bonus, it is the start of a FWG core. My vote is Omanyte.
Ima go with quagsire because it is one of my favorite NU mons, has excellent type synergy with tropius, it only has one weakness which tropius 4x resists.
It stops most set up sweepers except those with grass moves.
and I just love it.
It stops most set up sweepers except those with grass moves.
and I just love it.
I believe that the hazards setter should be Garbodor since is (for me) the better for this job, so i vote Quagsire since a lot of setup sweepers are hard to take down and Quaggy is an easy stop to them, plus he can toxic threats on the switch or simply poison (or burn) flying type like Braviary that doesn't enjoy it.
The only worry that i have, is that Quagsire can go to RU next month, so we have to get hurry or hoping that this not happen (i not, i hate Quag asd :P)
The only worry that i have, is that Quagsire can go to RU next month, so we have to get hurry or hoping that this not happen (i not, i hate Quag asd :P)
QUAGSIRE
Note that the Omanyte set has SR + Spikes as of now. But really, Trop needs those T-spikes in order to stall with Protect + Substitute and if we have T-spikes in Garb we might as well have Spikes on it too.... That leaves our possible stall-suitable T-spiker as Tentacool >.>
If we drop SR for T-spikes, we need another Rock-type anyways and we're wasting coverage on offensive threats. If we go SR + Tspikes only, we're wasting Oma's best move which is by far Spikes (SR is far too common, Tspikes are easily absorbed and while setting them up again is possible, Omanyte will most likely be too worn down to set them up repeatedly without Wish support from a /non-Lickilicky/ cleric. Garbodor has lefties at least, and can passably receive wish from the best Wishpasser Lickilicky.)
You all know how much I love going rogue, but I think kicking off with 2 rogue mons will get this in a total rut (not like this is already now lol!) and we need to make this team somewhat usable.
To future posters: please remember, I know hazards are good, but you don't have to put hazards on the team /right now/. It's not hazards vs. no hazards. It's hazards now, or hazards later. And I think the latter gives us more flexible options.
Note that the Omanyte set has SR + Spikes as of now. But really, Trop needs those T-spikes in order to stall with Protect + Substitute and if we have T-spikes in Garb we might as well have Spikes on it too.... That leaves our possible stall-suitable T-spiker as Tentacool >.>
If we drop SR for T-spikes, we need another Rock-type anyways and we're wasting coverage on offensive threats. If we go SR + Tspikes only, we're wasting Oma's best move which is by far Spikes (SR is far too common, Tspikes are easily absorbed and while setting them up again is possible, Omanyte will most likely be too worn down to set them up repeatedly without Wish support from a /non-Lickilicky/ cleric. Garbodor has lefties at least, and can passably receive wish from the best Wishpasser Lickilicky.)
You all know how much I love going rogue, but I think kicking off with 2 rogue mons will get this in a total rut (not like this is already now lol!) and we need to make this team somewhat usable.
To future posters: please remember, I know hazards are good, but you don't have to put hazards on the team /right now/. It's not hazards vs. no hazards. It's hazards now, or hazards later. And I think the latter gives us more flexible options.
I like Omanyte. The hazard setting is very important and the synergy is really nice. The hazards could be the difference in a long match.
Omanyte. I really like Amarillo's reasoning, but he forgot to mention that Omanyte is cuter than Quagsire.
Still tied. Omanyte.
While it doesn't have unaware or instant recovery, omanyte gives us a good pivot who can check birds for long enough so they eventually die to SR. A solid hazard setter would be great I think and seeing how hard spins are to pull off in NU (especially with cryogonal boarding the bus outa here), the hazards and the flying resistance gives it the edge over quag.
While it doesn't have unaware or instant recovery, omanyte gives us a good pivot who can check birds for long enough so they eventually die to SR. A solid hazard setter would be great I think and seeing how hard spins are to pull off in NU (especially with cryogonal boarding the bus outa here), the hazards and the flying resistance gives it the edge over quag.
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