Other Stall

[56k]

I suggest people try using both Sand Stream pokemon together. Sassy Assault Vest Tyranitar is a GOD, and physically defensive Hippowdon is nearly as good even without a boosting item. (I'm also desperately trying to push Magnezone into this team, but he doesn't seem to fit :( )

Here's something I dug up from DPP OU: CurseTar

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Careful
Sand Stream
252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
-Curse
-Crunch/Payback
-Sleep Talk
-Rest


Scarf Magnezone traps and kills Lucario (not sure about MegaLucario, a tad bulkier), Ferrothorn, and Scizor, and threatens Fairies with Flash Cannon, and threatens Azumarill with TBolt. Gengar is using focus blast less and less, fighting type pokemon like terrakion and keldeo are rare, and rain teams are rare too. I'm not sure how Aegislash fits in with the Cursetar+Scarfzone idea, but i'm pretty sure Aegislash beats both of them...which brings us to Hippowdon, the perfect thing to round out the 3-man core.

Edit: Lucario and MegaLucario have the same special bulk. Timid Scarf Zone only does 54.25 - 64.18% with Volt Switch and 70.21 - 82.97% with Thunderbolt.

Double Edit for your trouble: Plus nature base 115s are faster than ScarfZone by 1 point but MegaLucario's base speed is only 112

 

[Karpi]

Scarf Magnezone traps and kills Lucario (not sure about MegaLucario, a tad bulkier), Ferrothorn, and Scizor, and threatens Fairies with Flash Cannon, and threatens Azumarill with TBolt. Gengar is using focus blast less and less, fighting type pokemon like terrakion and keldeo are rare, and rain teams are rare too. I'm not sure how Aegislash fits in with the Cursetar+Scarfzone idea, but i'm pretty sure Aegislash beats both of them...which brings us to Hippowdon, the perfect thing to round out the 3-man core.

It all depends on how Magnezone interacts with Mega Lucario (fuck you Lucario fanboys, you got what you wanted). Thanks for the idea though!

 

[Neab]

How about Probopass?

252+ SpA Probopass Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 208-248 (54.02 - 64.41%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. +1 160 HP / 0 SpD Probopass: 51-61 (16.94 - 20.26%) -- possible 7HKO
(since Defensive Heatrans don't carry Earth Power anyways)

also,

252+ SpA Probopass Earth Power vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 328-388 (101.23 - 119.75%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. +1 160 HP / 0 SpD Probopass: 120-142 (39.86 - 47.17%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ SpA Probopass Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 280-332 (81.63 - 96.79%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Probopass Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 352-416 (99.43 - 117.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Probopass Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 176-208 (50 - 59.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

It's not that bad honestly, especially under sand.

 

[DudeBro420]

Any Wrappers with access to Toxic and reliable recovery? Infestation, whirlpool etc.
Tentacruel would be the obvious candidate if it weren't for the rain nerf.

 

[Sir Lemongrab]

Any Wrappers with access to Toxic and reliable recovery? Infestation, whirlpool etc.
Tentacruel would be the obvious candidate if it weren't for the rain nerf.

Wrap, Toxic, Recover: Milotic, Chimecho
Wrap, Toxic, Roost: Dragonite
Sand Tomb, Toxic, Slack Off: Hippowdon
Sand Tomb, Toxic, Roost: Gligar, Flygon, Gliscor
Whirlpool, Toxic, Recover: Starmie, Quagsire, Corsola, Lugia, Milotic, Latias, Latios, Gastrodon, Arceus
Whirlpool, Toxic, Milk Drink: Miltank
Whirlpool, Toxic, Slack Off: Slowbro, Slowking
Whirlpool, Toxic, Roost: Dragonite, Mew, Lugia, Pelipper, Latias, Latios
Bind, Toxic, Recover: Kecleon
Fire Spin, Toxic, Slack Off: Infernape
Fire Spin, Toxic, Roost: Charizard, Moltres, Volcarona
Infestation, Toxic, Roost: Butterfree, Beedrill, Ledian, Masquerain, Vespiquen, Vivillon
Infestation, Toxic, Heal Order: Vespiquen

:'-)

 

[Xiom]

Crobat, as well as all the other flying birds, are immune against spikes anyways, however they really care about the -1 Speed from Sticky Web, other than Scizor, who can at least do something with Bullet Punch.

Aren't levitating and flying immune to sticky web?

 

[Neab]

Aren't levitating and flying immune to sticky web?

Yes, they are. My bad.

 

[GeneralMLD]

Here's something I dug up from DPP OU: CurseTar

Edit: Lucario and MegaLucario have the same special bulk. Timid Scarf Zone only does 54.25 - 64.18% with Volt Switch and 70.21 - 82.97% with Thunderbolt.

Double Edit for your trouble: Plus nature base 115s are faster than ScarfZone by 1 point but MegaLucario's base speed is only 112

Not sure if people would run timid magnezones, nevermind scarf ones. What would a Modest Magnezone thunderbolt do? Because thats the most common nature in Magnezones competitively.

Also focus sash Magnezone is arguably better as it allows it to take a fighting/ground move while able to use all its moves. So if its thunderbolt with modest and special Atk EVs can take it out, then thats good news.

 

[56k]

If it's modest then MegaLucario is faster than magnezone. The modest thunderbolt also does not OHKO

 

[DudeBro420]

Wrap, Toxic, Recover: Milotic, Chimecho
Wrap, Toxic, Roost: Dragonite
Sand Tomb, Toxic, Slack Off: Hippowdon
Sand Tomb, Toxic, Roost: Gligar, Flygon, Gliscor
Whirlpool, Toxic, Recover: Starmie, Quagsire, Corsola, Lugia, Milotic, Latias, Latios, Gastrodon, Arceus
Whirlpool, Toxic, Milk Drink: Miltank
Whirlpool, Toxic, Slack Off: Slowbro, Slowking
Whirlpool, Toxic, Roost: Dragonite, Mew, Lugia, Pelipper, Latias, Latios
Bind, Toxic, Recover: Kecleon
Fire Spin, Toxic, Slack Off: Infernape
Fire Spin, Toxic, Roost: Charizard, Moltres, Volcarona
Infestation, Toxic, Roost: Butterfree, Beedrill, Ledian, Masquerain, Vespiquen, Vivillon
Infestation, Toxic, Heal Order: Vespiquen

:'-)

Sweet Arceus.

Jellicent gets Bind/Toxic/Recover from gen 5 as well.
Stall is back and viable in all tiers.

 

[mode.9800]

I am going to disagree with a lot of people and say defog is in fact a buff to stall, or at least semi-stall, and a pretty major one at that. Prior to now offensive teams could often get away with a dedicated suicide lead and a spin blocker to get hazards on the field and keep them there. Through smart play most offensive teams could keep their hazards up for most of a match which really allows many offensive Pokemon to thrive. Now with defog there is no way to truly block the removal of hazards perfectly. Also since using defog removes your own hazards offence can't afford to waste the time removing hazards and then reapplying them. Without suicide leads offensive teams need to give up momentum in order to maintain hazards, or concede hazards effectively nerfing the power of their Pokemon. Now compare this to stall. It is very easy for stall to keep a hazard setter alive and reapply them throughout the matc,h as a stall player is going to have turns to play with. Defog is a guaranteed way to get rid of hazards from an offensive player and then just need to be reapplied to bring stall into an advantage. Honestly I've always believed that hazards benefit offence more than stall as frail sweepers don't care too much to take small damage as they are not designed to take hits in the first place.

 

[Koindozer]

Well the buff to frost breath and storm throw could make a small difference as defensive boosts wont matter as much now, but stall teams dont boost defense that often.

 

[Koindozer]

Let's talk about new pokemon that can fit well onto stall teams. On top of my mind I can think of:
Mega Venusaur: great bulk, can absorb toxic spikes, sleep powder and spore, can deal with fairies and synthesis is more reliable now without perma-rain/sand
Gourgeist: bulky spinblocker who gets Flamethrower so it can actually beat Forretress and Ferrothorn
Aegislash: excellent bulky spinblocker who can also deal serious damage if it needs to
Dragalgae: specially defensive pokemon with Scald, a great set of resistances and ability to absorb toxic spikes
Goodra: great bulk and movepool and access to 3 very useful abilities
Klefki: Prankster Spikes. 'nuff said. Also, excellent defensive type

Do you think that Goodra could work with an ability capsule? I mean, it could switch to sap sipper whenever it expects a grass attack and otherwise keep gooey

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

Do you think that Goodra could work with an ability capsule? I mean, it could switch to sap sipper whenever it expects a grass attack and otherwise keep gooey

Ability capsule is not a hold item. You have to use it, in game, manually, and it changes ability permanently.

 

[Impy]

I'm liking this mishmash early metagame a LOT. Everything seems to be viable so far. I've been running bulky offense and it's beautiful. I can't speak for what will happen in december, though. Things might not change at all, or we might end up back at the drawing board.

 

[SkiGloves]

One pokémon I'm simply adoring in my stall team is Mega Mawile. She both breaks a mutual stall open and stops sweepers dead in their tracks (especially physical ones), like Aegislash, with excellent prediction skills, you can tear teams apart. While my first use of her may have been a bit anti-climactic (switched into a shell smash cloyster thinking it was going to use rock blast and instead finding it was using surf/ice beam), I've managed to win my last couple of games almost completely due to Mega Mawile's raw power and some flawless prediction luck (as well as regular luck with Play Rough never missing).

I'm actually happy that stall is going to be a far more viable strategy than last generation as I feel a single crit or missed Fire Blast can cause you to lose the game far more often than a missed Leech Seed (although a Prankster Will-o-wisp arguably has the same accuracy and more impact...).

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Personally, in the current legal OU metagame, I am finding it difficult to build stall teams because the the restrictions on Stealth Rock. Pretty much the only Pokemon in OU that can learn it anymore are Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine. Ferrothorn is OK for setting them up, but then you usually have to run Spikes on it as well, as Skarmory and Forretress have terrible redundant synergy with Ferrothorn, and with that there is a ton of pressure on Ferrothorn to get hazards up.

So pretty much your options for a team are forced as:

• Run Tyranitar without Assault Vest for Stealth Rock (boo)
• Run Ferrothorn with Stealth Rock
  • Use Forretress or Skarmory for Spikes
  • Run Spikes on Ferrothorn
• Run Mamoswine (icky)

Any other creative hazard options are appreciated, but currently, its pretty much looking like your forced into that.

 

[Dragontamer]

Forretress gets Stealth Rocks from Crustle as an Egg move.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Forretress gets Stealth Rocks from Crustle as an Egg move.

Well I suppose that's a little better, Skarm + Forretress isn't all that bad, I have used it in the past, not optimal, but certainly much better than some other options.

One problem I am seeing with this hazard core off the bat this generation is Azumarill blows right through it, and the usual stall counters are very redunant with them (Tentacruel and Ferrothorn), still, its not bad, I will have to investigate more creative Azumarill counters.

 

[alexwolf]

Well I suppose that's a little better, Skarm + Forretress isn't all that bad, I have used it in the past, not optimal, but certainly much better than some other options.

One problem I am seeing with this hazard core off the bat this generation is Azumarill blows right through it, and the usual stall counters are very redunant with them (Tentacruel and Ferrothorn), still, its not bad, I will have to investigate more creative Azumarill counters.

Mega Venusaur is also an option for an Azumarill counter, and also covers SD Mega Lucario.

And Forrerress is a horrible SR setter. SR users on defensive teams should either have ample switch-in chances or reliable recovery, and Forretress fills none of those criteria.

 

[MamotromicO]

Personally, in the current legal OU metagame, I am finding it difficult to build stall teams because the the restrictions on Stealth Rock. Pretty much the only Pokemon in OU that can learn it anymore are Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine. Ferrothorn is OK for setting them up, but then you usually have to run Spikes on it as well, as Skarmory and Forretress have terrible redundant synergy with Ferrothorn, and with that there is a ton of pressure on Ferrothorn to get hazards up.

So pretty much your options for a team are forced as:

• Run Tyranitar without Assault Vest for Stealth Rock (boo)
• Run Ferrothorn with Stealth Rock
  • Use Forretress or Skarmory for Spikes
  • Run Spikes on Ferrothorn
• Run Mamoswine (icky)

Any other creative hazard options are appreciated, but currently, its pretty much looking like your forced into that.

What about Mega-Aggron? I'm suggesting it but not sure if it might be good, I'm kinda new to competitive pokemon and I'm really interested on running a stall team. What made me interested on him was mostly it's typing and filter ability.

 

[Mulligan]

Isn't Hippowdon able to breed to learn Stealth Rock along with Slack Off? It's in the Field Egg group along with Smeargle IIRC. I haven't seen Hippo in pre-Pokebank, but I haven't played much lately so idk.

Anyway, how do you guys feel about "Quickstall"? For those that don't know, it's basically a more aggressive variant of traditional stall. The idea is to get hazards up as quickly as possible and then use annoyers (e.g.: fast SubSeeders, Tormenters) and/or offensive pokes using defensive sets to stall the opponent out. It was kind of a thing in DPP Ubers and I've seen a few users make it work in DPP OU. In BW2, I don't think anyone even bothered as stall itself was barely viable but I could be wrong. It's something that's interested me and from some games I've played with the team I built, I'm doing pretty well so far. I haven't cracked the top 100 yet though. Granted, I built it for pre-Pokebank and made sure I had a way to aggressively trap and beat most of the current Defog users, but I'm laddering on Pokebank OU just for the giggles and to see how far I could get, ranking wise. I think it's really cool in the fact that people get psyched out in Team Preview because it looks like you are running an offensive team, when you actually aren't. Of course, they don't find out until mid-game ;)

Would love some thoughts from anyone who has experience with quickstall.

 

[Honus]

Personally, in the current legal OU metagame, I am finding it difficult to build stall teams because the the restrictions on Stealth Rock. Pretty much the only Pokemon in OU that can learn it anymore are Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, Mamoswine. Ferrothorn is OK for setting them up, but then you usually have to run Spikes on it as well, as Skarmory and Forretress have terrible redundant synergy with Ferrothorn, and with that there is a ton of pressure on Ferrothorn to get hazards up.

So pretty much your options for a team are forced as:

• Run Tyranitar without Assault Vest for Stealth Rock (boo)
• Run Ferrothorn with Stealth Rock
  • Use Forretress or Skarmory for Spikes
  • Run Spikes on Ferrothorn
• Run Mamoswine (icky)

Any other creative hazard options are appreciated, but currently, its pretty much looking like your forced into that.

Just use Heatran lol. Maybe it's a bad thing for stall teams to be centralized like this but Heatran is a fantastic Pokemon in this metagame and should have no problems setting SR on stuff like Talonflame, Genesect, Fairies.

 

[Aasgier]

Don't most offensive Fairies wreck Heatran despite what the type chart suggests?

Since Azumarill has Water-STAB, MMawile has Brick Break, Gardevoir has Focus Blast/HP Ground, and Granbull has Close Combat.

They can also all take a Flash Cannon (not so sure about Mawile taking a Fire Blast or Granbull taking a heavily invested Flash Cannon, though).

Clefable, Sylveon and Florges DO get walled by Heatran though.

 

[Littha]

Don't most offensive Fairies wreck Heatran?

Since Azumarill has Water-STAB, MMawile has Brick Break, Gardevoir has Focus Blast/HP Ground, and even Granbull has Close Combat.

Most MMawile sets I have seen have been Play Rough/Iron Head/Sucker Punch. Not seen one with Brick Break yet.

Also Mawile is much slower than Heatran and weak to fire. I would be interested in how much damage a +2 sucker punch from a mawile would do to heatran but I'm on my phone at the moment.