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Other Stall
- Thread starter ShootingStarmie
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I think that speed tiers are something you should worry less about when you have 5 other team slots to cover the 70-80 Spe tiers. With that set, I'd prefer to go with outspeeding Bisharp and Heatran. I think preserving as much bulk as possible would play into that set's success. Excadrill may LOOK like a Swiss Army Knife, but don't try to take on too many things at once. I look at it kinda like SpDef Gyarados--you could play around with all the EV's you want, but eventually you're gonna have to specialize in something and cut your losses with the stuff you can't take.
That's just the ladder not being prepared for stall.
Dazzling Gleam is an awful move on Jirachi, especially for Specially Defensive sets. It provides almost no useful coverage.
This is what I would use:
move 1: Iron Head
move 2: Toxic / Body Slam
move 3: Wish
move 4: Protect
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
nature: Careful
Thanks for the help, I just found that the suprise factor helped deal with some other sableye stall teams. I'll just modify the Jirachi set a little to suit my team.
Mega Sableye will not be banned. For a long time now, I've thought it was overrated as an S threat, and it seems like the metagame has finally caught up to it. It's really not that hard to remove from the game so long as you can keep momentum OR you have a fairy. It's nowhere near broken, and it's not centralizing at all. I would be shocked if it moved down to A+ and somehow got banned.
It most likely won't be. Every relevant Fairy on the ladder right now complety destroys it, such as Specs Sylveon, M-Gard, Non-DD Altaria, Togekiss, and Clefable, as well as many other common threats such as both Zard forms, SD Talonflame, Houndoom (uncommon but still shits on it), M-Gyarados to an extent, NP Thundurus and plenty more. Frankly, it's extremely over hyped, and it's never been S worthy. It's great on paper, but the meta has adapted to it and it's not ban worthy anymore.
Edit: I hate you sun :c
SketchUp
Don't let your memes be dreams
It gets Moonblast so Dazzling Gleam is irrelevant in the first place. For specially defensive sets you only have room for 1 move outside of Wish, Protect and Iron Head. Moonblast has a very little niche over moves like Stealth Rock, Fire Punch, Toxic and U-Turn so I wouldn't recommend it.
I'm still waiting until the ORAS metagame settles down to try anything (as well as to develop a team of underrated stall pokemon once again...plain stall gets a bit boring for me so I really want to develop Pokemon which nobody expects on your standard stall team) but my memories of the XY game were similar to that. About 20-30% of games in the low tiers were my opponent starting up, realizing that I played stall, then leaving. Another 10% were them raging and saying that stall is either mindless or the "cheap" way to win. It gets better if you get to higher rankings I find as players there don't automatically expect a sweeper heavy team.
To be honest, if you're so outright demolished by stall that you want to just call your opponent "talentless trash" or something and exit the match at Team Preview, it probably has a lot more to do with your skill as a player and teambuilder than with stall itself. There are ample amounts of viable methods of dealing with stall teams, whether it be through stallbreakers, wallbreakers, or just raw offensive pressure and aggressive play. You have to be careful to make a team that has at least some way of dealing with common stall builds or you're just going to get worn down slowly while you frantically flail and fail (I made that one up muh self).
Ladder player tears are kind of a delicacy though, which is probably why I enjoy playing with stall from time to time.
Ladder player tears are kind of a delicacy though, which is probably why I enjoy playing with stall from time to time.
I absolutely agree. Honestly, I think stall is a harder and harder style to play because of different viable offensive permutations (something that seems to increase faster than the number of viable defensive permutations). I've played since Generation III and I feel that developing a good stall team is a skill that requires more and more theory and assumptions than before. Even accidentally stumbling on a way to break stall, after you work you way through the learning curve, seems like something that should happen these days.
I personally think that the reason many drop out when they see stall is because they want fast games...stall games for me typically take 15-30 minutes if I slowly plot everything out whereas the average probably for my mid-range game (I guess "bulky offence" is the right word but I do a lot more Magic: The Gathering work these days so mid-range is the first word that comes to mind) is typically down to 10-15 minutes. I would then guess that many low tier players don't want to waste up to 30 minutes (well, my record was 3 hours but that involved two ill-equipped stall teams) to settle the matter and just take the loss and try to fit two games or more in that time.
The ones that call it "cheap" I suspect are new players who just aren't familiar to it...though sometimes I still find the occasional player who feels the need to let off steam at me at the end of the match, win, lose, or draw.
There are too many SRers that sabel can't switch into. Those damn life orbs will hurt you too much! No worse feeling than seeing hazards on your own side that would have been prevented with a switch.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-214706469
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-214706469
Double post? Necro bump? Worth it! I thought this replay was amazing. I wiggle out of a really tough position (a +2 garchomp that almost surely has a lum berry) and it ends in a heroic save from mvp gyarados.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-218466914
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-218466914
I've switched around moves millions of times on sableye and settled on fake out because it lets you get up magic bounce on turn 1 without giving the opponent a free turn. Lets say I lead with sableye (because they have a ferrothorn) but they lead with gardevoir or a clefable. Using fake out (instead of protect) lets me get the ability change for free instead of possibly risking the opponent getting a free calm mind (or dragon dance, or SD lum chomp, etc). The tiny damage and extra turn of toxic/burn damage can come in handy late game too.
It's a shame that there are few good poison stall pokes out there. The only ou poison pokes that come to mind are venusaur, scolipede, tentacruel and gengar. 100% accurate toxic, immunity to poison and resistances to some key offensive types such as fairy, fighting and grass is something that any stall poke wishes for.
Some more defensive subWoW Gengar is cool, spamming Wisp is pretty strong (esp vs things immune to Toxic) and Gengar also has Hex to take advantage of it. It doesn't have the best defenses so it's important to take advantage of the immunities and resists, but the litte less passivity can be pretty helpful sometimes.
I believer you're looking for Amoonguss x) But I do agree, Poison is a great defensive typing. The biggest problem is that the Poison-type in general just doesn't give us great BSTs alongside them, seeing that a lot of Poison-types are found early on in the games (which are usually weaker) and we have no Poison-type legendaries. I sure wish Game Freak would pump up the Poison- and Bug-types like they did for EVERY SINGLE TYPE IN THE GAME T.T
I'm a huge fan of sub/WoW/shadowball|hex/sludgewave Gengar. I was messing around with it on the ladder yesterday and it definitely pulls it's own weight. I have a feeling that the analysis might be outdated though. Max speed is a given but how much HP and SpAtk should such a gengar use?
144 HP / 108 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe is given so that clefable can't break your subs and so hex can 2hko SpDef gliscor. However, new benchmarks might be in order to possibly secure 1hkos on mega-altarias, killing CM slowbro, and other new ORAS things.
edit: adding a replay.
I felt odds were against me 10:1 at team preview.
CharX paired with a Gliscor means it should basically be impossible to ever burn/poison/twave either of them. Furthermore there's a cleric on his team regardless. He has a starmie, something that sableye can't indefinitely spinblock. Ferrothorn stubbornly resists my only wincon (gyarados) and never has any reason to switch in on anything else, so never gets weak. And jesus to top it all off he has a gothitelle to pick off any select member of my team if he decides to.
Starts off with poking and prodding from both sides and discerning what types of sets people are using. I am frustrated to see that klefki (or any fairy) walls his charizard but klefki (and also seismitoad) are pretty vulnerable targets for his gothitelle. Strangely though he doesn't use it. Maybe it was lacking suitable moves; I only saw it use trick which implies rest cm trick psychic. Walled by sableye and heal blocked by tricking torn/tangrowth's assault vest on a bad double switch.
Since DD char beats DD gyara one on one, my only real options against it are toxic and seismitoad's earthpower. But one of my toxic users (klefki) is a free switch for gliscor and the other toxic user (seismitoad) is a free switch for ferro or sylveon. And as I mentioned earlier both of them are vulnerable to goth anyway.
I decide i need rocks no matter what and switch seismitoad in finally, not caring if it goes down. Fortunately though it doesn't get trapped and instead I find myself trying to spinblock starmie at the cost of sableye's life. I got fortunate here (didnt get burned in 2 tries) and by the end of the battle starmie was in range of being killed by any move. Unfortunately only torn-t is faster and he wisely switches out to spin later.
Midway through the battle I decide my only shot at winning is spamming spikes and baiting starmie to hardswitch in on klefki. This will give me a 25% chance to parahax it (and kill it) which I feel is a significant improvement over my aforementioned 10% odds.
Instead he surprises me and tries to bring in starmie later. I think he should have just found a way to sac something and get starmie a free rapid spin shot. Instead, in a ridiculous turn of fortunes, I end up with max hazards on the opponents field and he can't get rid of them.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-218955621
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I've been using spdef SD gliscor on a mega-scizor stall team while laddering recently, and it often proves to be my win con.
It helps against things like gengar and landorus-i lacking hp ice, both of which commonly trouble stall.
It already has an awesome physical bulk and physically defensive typing. Here is a replay in the high 1400s, where it beats an unaware clefable:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-219754389
It helps against things like gengar and landorus-i lacking hp ice, both of which commonly trouble stall.
It already has an awesome physical bulk and physically defensive typing. Here is a replay in the high 1400s, where it beats an unaware clefable:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-219754389
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