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Stalling thread.

majesty

Remember when I suggested D/P was all offense?


Nobody?

Well, turns out I was right even if you don't remember. I'm not seeing much in the RMT in terms of a toxic/stall team these days. With all these fancy scarfs, specs and bands, combined with some new devastating attacks on attack soaked pokemon, it spells gg for anyone trying to keep a poke in for longer than, say, three turns.


Well. What do we have left for stallers? Is there any hope for me, the GSC whore that loves to stall someone to death with an Umbreon and then laugh? Are there no more laughs for me!? I'm going to say yes. Perhaps maybe you, the seasoned pokeveterans, could suggest some good stallers capable of ruining some shit here in the new gen?
 
I like Spiritomb myself.

Spiritomb
EVs: ...er, I don't know what EVs work best with Pain Split.
Nature: Bold
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
1. Protect
2. Pain Split
3. Calm Mind
4. Dark Pulse

Make them run out of PP with your Pressure ability by Protecting whenever you can, then Dark Pulse them off once they start struggling. Protect also goes well with Leftovers. Calm Mind not only increases two stats at once, but it makes the opponent think twice about switching, as you could conceivably get a free Calm Mind during that turn. Pain Split helps you recover HP and indirectly turns their own attacks against them.
 
What about past stallers, like my main man umbreon, that have been basically molested by this new gen? How many of them still stand up to the gluttonous attackers of D/P?
 
Well, even completely ignoring the extremely powerful special and physical hitters introduced this gen, things like Toxic stalling aren't the greatest idea in the DP metagame. Steels are running rampant, and they're completely immune to all poison attacks, not to mention resisting the attacks of common stallers like Umbreon and Spiritomb; this makes it extremely difficult to pull off your desired play style...

And then you have Heracross, who rapes Umbreon, takes advantage of Guts, and demolishes many common walls. That's not to say this kind of thing is impossible, but I can't see it being as effective as it was during GSC...
 
Well, there is a lot of room for stalling before you get to "as effective as it was during GSC".

Also, what you see in RMT topics may not be really representative of DP as a whole.. I know a few people who stall very effectively -or at least they tell me they do, as I still havent battled yet..

Have a nice day.
 
I've been debating some pokemon's stalling potential, which has lead me to some oddball set ideas. Like...

Spiritomb@Lefties
Pressure
+SpDef/-Att; 252 HP, 128 SpDef, 128 Def
-Protect
-Substitute
-Taunt/Spite/Hypnosis
-Pain Split

Silly, silly idea and really needs support to even have a chance of working. But the idea is that you use a combination of Subbing and Protecting to drain your opponent's PP. Pain Split allows the occasional recovery if its necessary. The other slot is open. Taunt to prevent buffing up, Spite to murder PP and Hypnosis to help set-up.
 
adman2 said:
Anyone who uses Aerodactyl for stalling needs to get his head examined. . .

There is still room for defensive play to an extent, but you have to be more careful about it. Blissey, Skarmory, Weezing, Bronzong, and Dusknoir have a chance in D/P.
Click to expand...
Actually, Aerodactyl can quite easily stall many opponents out of PP if you adopt Pressuredactyl, carrying Sub/Fly/Roost/filler. The filler could be Protect or another solid physical attack such as Earthquake. Aero's Sp.Def is pretty good in Sandstorm, and Defense can be beefed up a little with EVs. Roost also allows it to stall out Rock, Ice and Electric attacks. Beware of jumping to conclusions!
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
Actually, Aerodactyl can quite easily stall many opponents out of PP if you adopt Pressuredactyl, carrying Sub/Fly/Roost/filler. The filler could be Protect or another solid physical attack such as Earthquake. Aero's Sp.Def is pretty good in Sandstorm, and Defense can be beefed up a little with EVs. Roost also allows it to stall out Rock, Ice and Electric attacks. Beware of jumping to conclusions!
Click to expand...

That Pokemon XD Aerodactyl can actually work? :)
 
adman2 said:
I need to clarify a bit.

There's a Battle CD in Pokemon XD in which you have to out-stall a Kyogre with an Aerodactyl.
Click to expand...
Oh, now I understand. Stalling doesn’t work too well with him in Advance, but all the new additions in D/P make it a real possibility. The only new thing to worry about is Choice Scarf, but Sub can be used to scout for potential switch-ins, then Fly for two wasted turns on their part. I don’t think anything can outrun and kill with CS Rock Blast, but I might be wrong.
 
I've got a sudo effective honchkrow staller. Although it's not very effective since it has horrible defences. Nightslash/Twave/attract/Fly. Kind of effecite, but not very. (Took down a metagross once though)
 
Main problem with stallers is they can be instantly locked down by only 1 single move.

Taunt.

That single move instantly screws over any hopes of a stall. Its not even a proposterous idea or over specialized either, in fact the easiest to setup DDdos sets carry Taunt. It lasts 2-5 turns now as well which effectively screws over even the Fly abusing Aerodactyl.

I used to have an old rule since GSC when building movesets I always abided to, no matter what role NEVER EVER leave a pokemon without one offensive move even if its a stall set. Taunt in D/P is all the more reason for that rule to be in force.

Substitutes seem to be less of a worry though, I've noticed a severe lack of Substitutes being used lately. But its another thing which instantly can kill any stalling set not named Perish Trapping Missmagius.

On a sidenote, shame on you people for not mentioning it. Its only a 3-4 turn stall but its by far the most threatening stall set out there.

Jumpluff is also great support since the whole point of the thing is to annoy people to death by refusing to die if you think outside the box a little of what defines defensive.

Gorebyss is actually a wonderful addition to any defensive team. It can launch a pretty lethal Surf offensive when needed and I believe is one of the only pokemon in the entire game which can Baton Pass both Amnesia and Iron Defense. A massive plus to any team running defensive Spiritomb or Dusknoir.

Personally I used to run it with a Armaldo to take full advantage of its bulky powerhouse stats and the fact it had no glaring weaknesses.
 
Forsety said:
Main problem with stallers is they can be instantly locked down by only 1 single move.

Taunt.

That single move instantly screws over any hopes of a stall. Its not even a proposterous idea or over specialized either, in fact the easiest to setup DDdos sets carry Taunt. It lasts 2-5 turns now as well which effectively screws over even the Fly abusing Aerodactyl.

I used to have an old rule since GSC when building movesets I always abided to, no matter what role NEVER EVER leave a pokemon without one offensive move even if its a stall set. Taunt in D/P is all the more reason for that rule to be in force.

Substitutes seem to be less of a worry though, I've noticed a severe lack of Substitutes being used lately. But its another thing which instantly can kill any stalling set not named Perish Trapping Missmagius.

On a sidenote, shame on you people for not mentioning it. Its only a 3-4 turn stall but its by far the most threatening stall set out there.

Jumpluff is also great support since the whole point of the thing is to annoy people to death by refusing to die if you think outside the box a little of what defines defensive.

Gorebyss is actually a wonderful addition to any defensive team. It can launch a pretty lethal Surf offensive when needed and I believe is one of the only pokemon in the entire game which can Baton Pass both Amnesia and Iron Defense. A massive plus to any team running defensive Spiritomb or Dusknoir.

Personally I used to run it with a Armaldo to take full advantage of its bulky powerhouse stats and the fact it had no glaring weaknesses.
Click to expand...
Aerodactyl can also just as easily carry Taunt in the last slot, shutting down DDdos and any potential subbers. Stone Edge is also a good option, so it doesn't look good for Gyara to be honest.
 
Treedweller said:
And then you have Heracross, who rapes Umbreon, takes advantage of Guts, and demolishes many common walls. That's not to say this kind of thing is impossible, but I can't see it being as effective as it was during GSC...
Click to expand...

Umbreon typically isn't used for stalling most of the time though. It's usually trying to trap something to help a teammate set up, pass Subs or Wishes, or serving as an effective counter to stalling teams itself with the toxic/meanlook set that proved rather effective in the Boah era.

I think Hippowdon and Jirachi would probably be close to staples on most stalling teams. Hippowdon has SS, Slack off, Immense physical stats+HP and the ability to Stealth Rock, Roar, and even Yawn. A support oriented Jirachi keeps things alive forever and is almost impossible to trap by anything if it has U-turn, it can even get away from Dugtrio if it gets up a Reflect.

A problem for stall teams that is apparent this generation is that a lot of strong attacks that hit for Neutral damage against the majority of your Pokemon will completely lead to their undoing, as in D/P everything hits a lot harder, Super-Effective or not. You can't just send in Suicune against CB Rhyperior and expect it to just absorb supercharged EQs and SEs. The most effective way to deal with the sheer power of this metagame is through prediction.

Which is not good news for stall teams. The longer you try and prolong the battle, the higher your chance is of messing something up that sends your whole game plan to hell, not to mention that vs. a player of equal skill, prediction wars are basically a craps shoot anyway. If the Pokemon that was supplying you with that crucial water weakness is KO'd by faulty prediction or even something like a CH Stone Edge, your opponent now has exposed a hole in your defenses and can exploit it at will.

Just my thoughts.
 
majesty said:
What about past stallers, like my main man umbreon, that have been basically molested by this new gen? How many of them still stand up to the gluttonous attackers of D/P?
Click to expand...

Umbreon is pretty much dead meat this generation. It is bait for Gyarados, Tyranitar, Heracross, Weavile, etc. to run over you. Skarmory is still quite effective at stalling for a turn or two, and of course there's Blissey, who is still the premier special wall.
 
There's many Toxic stallers available, they've just lost value in D/P. Just have a Magnezone in your team to trap Steel types. (Of course, that doesn't work for ALL steel types, mostly Skarmory, but still, Magnezone is good for that.)
 
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