Staraptor [QC: 1/3]

[Minus]

Staraptor can be a pretty good Sub-rooster thanks to Intimidate and good coverage, I think you can put that under OO.

Added

 

[Jukain]

my experiences against scarf raptor have changed my opinion on it

it can be a bitch to face, mainly as a late-game cleaner. it's not really that great at revenge killing, though it can do that to some effect. as a late-game cleaner, though, with flying resists removed, scarf staraptor is a total bitch to fight against. it even edges out cb talonflame in power, which is ridiculous. the set:

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Brave Bird
move 2: Double-Edge
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Close Combat
ability: Reckless
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant

seriously, i don't think it's a good revenge killer. it doesn't like switching into attacks at all (though that is not a requisite of a scarfer) and has a good amount of solid checks, in addition to a weakness to stealth rock. however, it can really shine as a late-game cleaner, and for that reason i think it deserves a set analysis.

 

[Minus]

Jukain, Scarfraptor does a little more damage than CB Talonflame, but it loses out on priority. IMO, CB Talonflame does a better job at late-game sweeping.

 

[PK Gaming]

Close Combat hits Steel- and Rock-Types that resist Brave Bird, OHKOing Tyranitar, and Terrakian after SR with the bonus of 2HKOing Heatran.

Terrakion doesn't resist Brave Bird since it's part fighting. In fact, it actually gets OHKOed by Brave Bird. Furthermore, Heatran is outright OHKOed by Close Combat, not 2HKOed. Incidentally, you should mention in the usage tips that Close Combat and Double-Edge should on be used rarely, as Brave Bird OHKOes / 2HKOes just about everything in the game. It even has a good chance of 2HKOing Heatran with Brave Bird after SR.

Specifically nailing OHKOs on top-tier threats, such as Genesect, Gengar, Celebi, and Mega Charizard Y.

What makes these Pokemon worth mentioning over other top threats? I'd change these mentions to bulky Flying-type weak Pokemon, such as Mega Venusaur (who is notorious for being difficult to take down) and Conkeldurr.

U-turn is used to scout. Since Staraptor is decently fast, it can U-turn and bring out an appropriate Pokemon that can check the opposition.

It's mainly used during forced switches to keep up the momentum when its counters are up (ie when your opponent has an active Aegislash and you're up against a celebi, you're better off U-turning)

 

[Jukain]

Staraptor also has Double-Edge, which lets you be more flexible in what you actually clear out of the opposing team before you go out and clean. I've thought through the comparison against CB Talonflame, and Scarf Staraptor is just a different case.

 

[Minus]

PK Gaming implemented

 

[Super Mario Bro]

So, after speaking with Jukain and Fuzznip, we all agree that Scarf Staraptor deserves an analysis. It's not strictly outclassed by Talonflame because it's more powerful, and has the coverage to deal with the threats that pester Talonflame, such as Heatran, Tyranitar, and Rotom-W.

 

[alexwolf]

Not to mention that Scarf Staraptor + CB Talonflame can be used together for epic destruction against offensive teams.

 

[Hibiki]

Not to mention that Scarf Staraptor + CB Talonflame can be used together for epic destruction against offensive teams.

A double dragon style, maybe?

 

[YABO]

I really think you need to make Jolly nature on ScarfRaptor the first slash as it allows Staraptor to outspeed tons of stuff at +1 speed who get wrecked by Brave Bird. Notable examples include Genesect, Darmanitan, Yanmega, Haxorus, Hydreigon, Neutral nature Zard X, and neutral Terrakion. All of these have at least a shot at being OHKO'd after Stealth Rocks even with the Jolly nature.

 

[Jukain]

I really think you need to make Jolly nature on ScarfRaptor the first slash as it allows Staraptor to outspeed tons of stuff at +1 speed who get wrecked by Brave Bird. Notable examples include Genesect, Darmanitan, Yanmega, Haxorus, Hydreigon, Neutral nature Zard X, and neutral Terrakion. All of these have at least a shot at being OHKO'd after Stealth Rocks even with the Jolly nature.

First thing: Darmanitan, Yanmega, Haxorus, and Hydreigon are barely even relevant in this metagame. Neutral-natured Terrakion doesn't exist in this day and age, and the only way for Terrakion to boost its Speed (besides Rock Polish, which always outruns Scarfraptor after a boost) is with a Choice Scarf, which you can play around fairly easily and almost always runs a Jolly nature, so running Jolly for it is basically useless.

You can also only even KO Genesect if it has a Hasty nature, which IMO, while the most common for sure, isn't worth the risk of it being Naive, which can take a Jolly Brave Bird.

That leaves Megazard X, which is indeed pretty useful to outspeed.

+1 Megazard X and Choice Scarf Genesect (again, if it's Naive you lose) are two reasons to run Jolly. However, they don't make it worth a first slash, especially with the amount of power it loses in return. In short: keep Adamant first, but definitely slash Jolly.

Okay.

Overview

• Competition from Talonflame

Staraptor and Talonflame are barely even comparable. Talonflame does not pack the raw power and coverage of Staraptor, while Staraptor lacks the priority and excellent Speed even without a Choice Scarf. They also form an amazing duo. There are numerous, numerous considerations you have to make when picking Staraptor or Talonflame, but you would choose them for entirely different reasons. It does face some competition as a Flying-type, which you can mention. Make sure you mention some of the nuance in the write-up, though, because overall, this point doesn't hold true.

Choice Band

Use Brave Bird/Double Edge conservatively.

This isn't really very true in my experience. You want to spam Brave Bird/Double-Edge and watch stuff die. That's much of the purpose of Staraptor. That said, mention that U-turn is always a good safe out when you're not sure what to do or you want to save Staraptor for something specific later.

• Most teams have diverse weaknesses, so chances are, the next 'mon is line will be hit neutrally/Super effectively by Brave Bird

I'm not positive what you're trying to get across with this tip; it's not really relevant to how you play Staraptor. Clarify or remove it.

Choice Scarf

• Scarf Staraptor has the fastest Brave Bird outside of the seldom seen Crobat nailing a perfect OHKO on the ubiquitous Genesect before it can even hit.

Talonflame's priority Brave Bird is 'faster'. Also, it can't OHKO Genesect without Stealth Rock damage, so it's not a perfect OHKO by any means. Mention that Brave Bird is a nice revenge killing tool that's still powerful with a Scarf due to Reckless and has great neutral coverage.

Usage Tips

You have say something about U-turn letting Staraptor get out of its counters, but that doesn't cover the whole thing. U-turn is the move you spam throughout much of the game unless you're specifically revenge killing something, much like CB Talonflame. This provides momentum for you by allowing for a favorable switch-in, forcing the opponent to switch out.

Team Options

Mention that hazards are really cool with this because they punish the forced switches caused by U-turn. Unless you can name specific KOs, entirely replace what you have currently about hazards with this reason.

Mention SR + spin Excadrill for the offensive spinner role, as it does the offensive thing well, spins away hazards, and even sets up SR for you. It's pretty much the perfect partner.

Other Options

• Intimidate can be opted for to support walls. Staraptor is sent out first and U-Turns out into a wall who can easily take the coming attack and setup Spikes/SR/Status

Reckless is so much of the reason for Staraptor's viability that I don't even think Intimidate is worth mentioning for any good reason. You can mention that while it does cushion physical attacks, it's pretty much entirely inferior to Reckless because of the massive power drop -- outside of SubRoost, that is, which you mention.

Mention a Sharp Beak set, which can switch moves (that's really nice), but lacks the power of CB and the Speed of Scarf, so is kind of stuck in an odd middle between two extremes, which hurts it.

Checks and Counters

Mention Rhyperior. Also mention sandstorm damage as an additional form of chip damage.

---

Since these are all pretty nitpick-ish in nature, I'll just go ahead and call this QC Approved 1/3 with these changes implemented.

 

[Minus]

Thanks!

 

[PK Gaming]

Jolly should definitely be the first slash on both sets

Losing to +Spe Genesect and not tying with Charizard is unacceptable

 

[alexwolf]

Not only this, but losing the Speed tie vs Manaphy, and getting outsped by +Spe Lucario (before it MEvolves) and +Spe Kyu-B sucks. Definitely slash Jolly first.

 

[Minus]

Changed it to Jolly

 

[alexwolf]

Overview

I don't like your Overview. I suggest you to change it to this:

• Great wallbreaker with spammable STABs
• U-turn and decent Speed make it a good member on VoltTurn teams, and a great Pokemon to partner with Talonflame
• SR weakness, bad bulk, and common weaknesses means it has difficulty switching in and is forced out by anything faster
• Mediocre Speed by offensive standards
• Common Pokemon stop it, such as Aegislash and Skarmory

Choice Band

Moves

Mention that Double Edge is used mainly to OHKO even physically defensive Rotom-W after SR. Also, explain how U-turn should be used only if the opponent has a hard counter to Staraptor, which are Skarmory and Aegislash basically.

Set Details

Explain why to use an Adamant nature: 70% chance to OHKO physically defensive Rotom-W after SR, sure 2HKO on mixed Aegislash with Brave Bird and no SR, and 90% chance to 2HKO 252 HP Heatran after SR with Brave Bird. Basically it eliminates the need for prediction and puts makes it less important to set up SR, meaning that you can start punching holes even earlier.

Also, mention a set with Roost (last slot) + LO + Adamant, for teams that can't afford to give set up chances to Pokemon such as Mega Tyranitar and prefer the ability to choose moves. You still get all the important OHKO/2HKOes anyway, but you die veeeery fast. Also, always use Adamant with this set, otherwise you can't get past Hippo and other important stuff.

Usage Tips

If you are in doubt of which move to pick, Brave Bird is the best move to be locked into due to the its raw power (OHKOs or 2HKOs most of the Tier after SR, like Heatran), but U-Turn is the safest

Use Brave Bird/Double Edge conservatively if you wish. Staraptor isn't at all bulky, but it needs to keep itself healthy, If Close Combat can potentially get a KO, use it instead. Otherwise, spam them and watch things die.

Get rid of those, they are 100% wrong. U-turn should be used only against teams with Skarmory or 252 HP Aegislash. Your main goal is to spam Brave Bird, with Double Edge and Close Combat covering the few things that aren't 2HKOed by it.

Getting in some entry hazards helps Staraptor in many ways. It first helps in turning some "50% chance to OHKO" to 100%.

This belongs in the 'team options' section.

Add that Staraptor should be brought in with double switches as it can't really take most attacks. For example, use something that lures Pokemon such as Mega Venusaur, Conkeldurr, etc, and then double switch to Staraptor.

Team Options

This needs some serious work. Remove any mention of Wish and Heal Bell, as they are absolutely useless on the kind of teams that Staraptor like to be in. Not only this, but Staratpor struggles to switch in to receive the Wish, and shouldn't be statused in the first place, so the cleric support is unnecessary. Mention that any kind of Talonflame is the single best partner for Staraptor to have, for reasons already explained.

Also, mention Pokemon with U-turn and Volt Switch, such as Rotom-W, Greninja, and Landorus-T, which can safely bring in Straptor, can set up SR (Lando-T), and beat the Pokemon that counter Staraptor (Aegislash and Skarmory).

Finally, mention Defog and Rapid Spin users. Manibuzz, Lati@s, Excadrill, and Starmie are all great choices that beat some of Staraptor's checks/counters and are great at getting rid of Stealth Rock from the field.

Remove Ferro, it does nothing vs Skarmory and Aegislash and doesn't have any real synergy with Staraptor, besides hazards, which other Pokemon can provide better.



To be honest, i don't know if you are suited for writing this. There were a lot of things that me and Jukain had to correct, and from your mistakes one could question if you really know how Staraptor is meant to be played. Implement what i suggested, and then i will make my final judgment about you writing or not this analysis.

 

[Minus]

alexwolf I implemented all of your changes. If it for the best, you can reassign this, but I would love to continue working on the birdy.

 

[TaBuu]

Talonflame is an amazing partner for Staraptor and speaking in offensive terms, one of the best.
However, you should probably refrain from stating that Talonflame is its best partner. Keep in mind that they actually do not cover each other's weaknesses. If anything, they only compound their liabilities. The reason they work so well together is due to the fact that both of the birds share similar counters ; therefore, it's effective for Banded Staraptor to nuke and Banded Talonflame to clean. Staraptor has other options that work just as well.
For example, Rotom-Wash works well with Banded Staraptor thanks to its ability to handle Mamoswine, Skarmory, Heatran, Tyranitar and so forth. Not to mention they get a pretty decent VoltTurn combination

 

[Jukain]

you cover synergy w/ something else, but talonflame IS its best partner

 

[alexwolf]

Talonflame is the best partner to Staratpor, don't change this anywhere. It's the reason why Staraptor suddenly got so viable in 6th gen, even though it received a new hard counter (Aegislash).

Use Staraptor's ability to break walls early game before entry hazards.

Remove the 'before entry hazards'' part. As long as it's early game, it's fine.

As for Scarf Staraptor, stress how it must be used with Talonflame, otherwise it's outclassed. CB Talonflame hits equally hard with Scarf Staraptor but his Brave Bird has priority, which is immensely more useful. So the only reason to use Scarf Staraptor is to break through offensive teams with Scarf Raptor + Talonflame. However, Scarf Staraptor is very superfluous with Talonflame vs balanced and defensive teams, as both fail to beat dedicated physical walls such as Mandibuzz, Hippowdon, and Slowbro, so it's main use is vs offensive teams.

You didn't add this:

Also, mention a set with Roost (last slot) + LO + Adamant, for teams that can't afford to give set up chances to Pokemon such as Mega Tyranitar and prefer the ability to choose moves. You still get all the important OHKO/2HKOes anyway, but you die veeeery fast. Also, always use Adamant with this set, otherwise you can't get past Hippo and other important stuff.

which should go in the set details of the fist set.

Add Slowbro, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon as checks, as they can either take one hit and OHKO back, force Staraptor to take huge damage, avoid the 2HKO from his STABs (in the case of Tyranitar), or just wall the whole set (which all three do against Scarf Raptor).

Do those and consider this

QC APPROVED 2/3

EDIT: Yeah right Jukain.

 

[Jukain]

alexwolf, that's 2/3

 

[Srn]

Minor nitpick: You may want to mention that double edge is also your best option against zapdos, which is becoming more and more popular to sort of counter-act this flying spam strategy. You may want to mention how in this way mega venusaur is also a decent partner, taking on rotom-w, aegislash (needs eq/leech seed), rotom-h (not specs) and zapdos (w/out hp flying) very well.

 

[bwebber]

Espeon is also a great partner. Can prevent Rocks and also discourages your opponent from trying to paralyze or burn you, both statuses that cripple Staraptor. Espeon can also set screens, which give Staraptor enough bulk to survive things like Tbolts from Goodra and Latias.

Not to mention Talonflame also greatly appreciates all of these things.

 

[alexwolf]

Slash Final Gambit on the last slot. It basically lets you cripple Skarmory and make it unusable for the rest of the game, as long as you lead with Staraptor and the opponent leads with something slower while having Skarmory, which is a fairly common scenario. Even Pokemon such as Rotom-W and Landorus-T that would maybe stay in against Staraptor are OHKOed or almost OHKOed, so it's a great tool when the opponent has multiple checks or Heatran.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

This is being reassigned. Fuzznip: can you take care of that in the index?