• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Stat exp or EVs

Which one do you like more?

  • Stat experience

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • Effort values

    Votes: 16 72.7%
  • Whatever the hell legends arceus did

    Votes: 5 22.7%

  • Total voters
    22
This thread is mainly just to discuss which stat manipulator do you perfer and why?

For context stat exp works by applying values to your pokemon based on the enemy pokemons base stats, these values had a limit of 65535, stopped applying when the pokemon is at level 100 (not counting certain exploits) and you can max out all the pokemons stats

Effort values is the system thats been used since gen 3 where every pokemon has a seperate ev value thats usually base on their highest stat, each stat can only go up to 252 and theres a general limit of 510

(Oh yeah theres also grit points but im to lazy to explain that.)

What im asking is, whether it be for in-game, competitive or just personal fun, which one do you like to use more?
 
In terms of a system adding strategic depth to an in game playthrough, I think EVs are a far, far better made system.

There is hardly any depth in stat experience. It is a grind check that you have actually used the Pokemon you're fighting with, and is still so muted a boost it's barely relevant over the course of an average in game play-through. It's going to take hundreds and hundreds of battles to max out any particular Pokemon's stats.

EVs are still difficult to coral to specific values in an in-game play-through, but it's entirely possible to do a general stat boost in the games with easy power item access like B2W2 and SV. They offer an interesting way to customize the stats of your pokemon.

I know there are players out there that prefer the nature of Gen 1 / 2 competitively where things aren't exploding all the time from all the maxed stats. That's fine, but I think the actual stat experience system is really boring in that it is basically just a second slider you barely interact with akin to IVs. Plus, this is OI, so I'm mostly not speaking competitively! I think big long boring grinds are bad for basic gameplay pieces!
 
I think there need to be better systems in place for interacting with EVs, but 100% EVs are better. StatXP doesn't involve any decisions from the player, just grinding, and that's a nothing system. (this is the same reason I hate IVs)
 
I would like to say that EVs are better from a competitive standpoint, and for the most part they definitely are. Learning how to specifically optimize EVs for certain Pokémon to account for certain matchups adds a layer of complexity to battles that doesn’t necessarily “break” the game in the same way that other additions to the games have. The opportunity cost that comes with EV optimization helps balance Pokémon out, whereas with stat experience this often just helped make the rich richer and gave the metagame a lot more emphasis on bulk and defensive play.

From a casual perspective, I do still think stat experience has some merits over the EV system, though. That’s why it’s hard for me to say one is better than the other even if EVs are inherently a more variable system. Stat experience feels like the kind of thing that’s easier to understand for newcomers and is an overall upgrade over EVs for the majority of the single player experience, save for battle facilities and the like. I’ve also had situations pop up in certain games where because of the Pokémon you battle against, that creates a disparity in the EVs you’ll be getting during the main story. Unova is especially bad about this, with Audino farming indirectly granting more HP EVs but the real issue is how deceptively few Pokémon in Black & White 1 give Special Attack EVs. Outside of the Celestial Tower, I can only think of a handful off the top of my head that actually do, and that’s not really that big of a deal but it bothers me when physical Attack EVs are much, much more readily available, which may have something to do with why most Black & White 1 playthrough teams consist almost entirely of physical attackers. Alola is another region where this happens but to a much smaller extent, with most of the fully evolved Pokémon being unusually slow resulting in less Speed EVs during the late-game than usual.

The issues with wild Pokémon and trainers’ Pokémon generally isn’t that big of a deal at the end of the day when well-designed level curves are much more important to single player than EVs will ever be, but to some extent stat experience does help to balance out the poor level curves of some games. Johto particularly comes to mind, as the large majority of Pokémon in GSC you’ll be battling don’t have any stat experience at all and by the time you reach Clair you’ll likely have enough of it to where the level curve is… still bad, I‘ll admit, but not as bad as it could be. I would estimate that if your team is in the low 30s when you reach Clair’s Gym, stat experience would make it so it feels more like the mid-30s instead. Not a huge difference, but it’s something.

Overall, I do believe EVs to be the better system but I voted for stat experience in an effort to highlight the marginal advantages the system does have over its successor. Not to mention, sometimes EV optimization can backfire if your opponent in, say, a tournament bracket knows what your stats are looking like and is allowed to change their EVs before your next Best-of-3. Imagine thinking you lost a Speed tie only to later find out your opponent outsped you by a single point so it effectively changed nothing about the outcome. That would be annoying to me personally, especially since there’s nothing I could have done about that in older games where speed ties are handled a bit differently. But that’s for another thread, I’m still doing research on recent findings.
 
I agree EVs are much better for competitive. For casual, >99% of players don't interact with the EV system. I'd be surprised if a full 1% of players have even heard of EVs. These players, myself included, go through the game getting a random distribution of EVs on their Pokemon, resulting in a more-or-less even stat bump... which is exactly what happens with stat exp. So really the only functional difference between the two systems is how many extra points a Pokemon gets in total, which is a pretty minor difference, so for casual I wouldn't say either is better than the other. I would even go as far as saying that we already have a system where defeating a few Pokemon gives a stat boost across the board: experience/leveling up, so having another system on top of that is pointless (again, for casual play).

I think a better system would be to go with something similar to the current EV system, where each stat can only have so many EVs and each Pokemon has a max number of EVs, but give the player more agency on what stats those EVs go to. And not in the form of a mini game completely unrelated to battling. Maybe for every KO a Pokemon is involved in, it gets the equivalent of 4 EVs that can be allocated to any stat upon leveling up. Or, if keeping the feature where different Pokemon give different EVs is desired, allow Pokemon to collect EVs for each stat, but some action has to be taken to apply them to their corresponding stat. For example, your Weavile would accrue EVs for all stats, but you could choose only to apply the ones it gets for attack and speed, but not any of the others.
 
I think a better system would be to go with something similar to the current EV system, where each stat can only have so many EVs and each Pokemon has a max number of EVs, but give the player more agency on what stats those EVs go to. And not in the form of a mini game completely unrelated to battling. Maybe for every KO a Pokemon is involved in, it gets the equivalent of 4 EVs that can be allocated to any stat upon leveling up. Or, if keeping the feature where different Pokemon give different EVs is desired, allow Pokemon to collect EVs for each stat, but some action has to be taken to apply them to their corresponding stat. For example, your Weavile would accrue EVs for all stats, but you could choose only to apply the ones it gets for attack and speed, but not any of the others.

Funny i remember modding a system like this in pokemon essentials basically every enemy drops a ev point which is like an item you can use on any of your pokes but whichever stat it raises depends on the type of the enemy you defeated.

(Also no mention of grit points?)
 
Back
Top