Status Spikes

Lcass4919 said:
the question is this: HOW do you get the spikes? because creating new moves is out of the question otherwise it turns into a pet mod. same with altering the effects of moves in a "unequalized mannor" basically this metas only saving grace is that "status inflictors(twave glare, spore, but not attacking moves like relic song)" become "spike clones" otherwise i don't see how this meta will make it through without being forced into "pet mod" territory. id like some insight from Eevee General because i'm kinda curious on how he thinks this meta can "avoid" that. since this DOES sound like a interesting meta. but...i just cant think of any possible method. and if we go with this idea i mentioned...maybe you could even consider widening the "Status" to confusion, attraction and other cheap perfectly fine alternatives :^).
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Is it possible they could use the move Toxic Spikes, and just have whether the pokemon can use it and what effect it has changed by the metagame? I'm not aware of any pokemon that would be elligable for tspikes and another set of spikes, correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
Derivatives said:
Why use Gourgeist as a spinblocker when Harvest+Lum Trevenant exists : )
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Beuse Gourgeist is a direct upgrade to Trevenant in standard (Gourgeist walls the same stuff and more wheras Trev just sorta sits there until its luck runs out) /and/ clears drowsy spikes to boot.
 
Articuno I said:
Is it possible they could use the move Toxic Spikes, and just have whether the pokemon can use it and what effect it has changed by the metagame? I'm not aware of any pokemon that would be elligable for tspikes and another set of spikes, correct me if I'm wrong though.
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the problem with using tspikes means you would have to base it on something...something which nomatter what you could try to do, would result in you having a "unbalanced forumula" (eg, fire type user using burn tspikes...but no dark type tspikes for dark types) if you dont have a formula that applies to ALL methods of said formula, then it turns into a pet mod (eg, hidden type is an om, and each hidden power typing is turned into a third type. with no exceptions) or a more "specific example" being metagamiate, where all normal type moves(take note the word all) are changed to the typing of the primary type of the pokemon.) this meta cant do that with toxic spikes. kinda hard to explain.

best way of putting it would be this i guess: if you want to alter a move in ANY way but keep it a om, you need to do it in a "formulaic" manor. which means "it can apply to everything based on principles added". this metas "objective" is so specific, theres only really one possible way to do this, which is the method i said before. unless someone comes up with a formula thats more lenient.

note: im only being so edgy about this, because if you turn it into a pet mod by accident, it could likely end up being locked until you fix it. better to solve this issue now before it gets to that point. as by then the meta could end up killing off its hype.

edit: a good way of using tspikes would be to make another move have "Said status effect" like if relic song is on the second move slot, your "tspikes" becomes drowsy spikes...but thats so bleh, 2 moveslots wasted. your better off just changing the status moves themselves.
 
Lcass4919 said:
the problem with using tspikes means you would have to base it on something...something which nomatter what you could try to do, would result in you having a "unbalanced forumula" (eg, fire type user using burn tspikes...but no dark type tspikes for dark types) if you dont have a formula that applies to ALL methods of said formula, then it turns into a pet mod (eg, hidden type is an om, and each hidden power typing is turned into a third type. with no exceptions) or a more "specific example" being metagamiate, where all normal type moves(take note the word all) are changed to the typing of the primary type of the pokemon.) this meta cant do that with toxic spikes. kinda hard to explain.

best way of putting it would be this i guess: if you want to alter a move in ANY way but keep it a om, you need to do it in a "formulaic" manor. which means "it can apply to everything based on principles added". this metas "objective" is so specific, theres only really one possible way to do this, which is the method i said before. unless someone comes up with a formula thats more lenient.

note: im only being so edgy about this, because if you turn it into a pet mod by accident, it could likely end up being locked until you fix it. better to solve this issue now before it gets to that point. as by then the meta could end up killing off its hype.

edit: a good way of using tspikes would be to make another move have "Said status effect" like if relic song is on the second move slot, your "tspikes" becomes drowsy spikes...but thats so bleh, 2 moveslots wasted. your better off just changing the status moves themselves.
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I agree it would have to work in a formulaic manner, but I don't think using the move tspikes for this would necessarily mean that everything had to now be able to use tspikes. I don't see a problem with the formula we use being "if it's on this list (e.g. an electric mon), it can use tspikes and tspikes has the static spikes effect". It certainly seems doable and I don't think too many people would say it's particularly complicated - it's just a case of an interesting new mechanic being added with tspikes being the method used to add it, without having to make pokemon for some reason unable to to use status moves all of a sudden. There's no huge mechanic changes, so I really don't think it'd push it into the limits of being a pet mod.

Making it so that any other move would set the status spikes would be a big loss though, for example having sleep moves become the equivalent spikes could be really annoying if you wanted a way to put a flying mon to sleep.
 
It's really difficult to do anything with types really because Sleep is a status that is not associated with a specific typing, so making one big universal effect is difficult. Maybe something with Hidden Power + Stealth Rocks/other hazards could work? ex. HP Fire + Spikes in the first slot makes Fiery Spikes or something like that.

Although I do like that suggestion in which Pokemon on a list get Toxic Spikes and the effects are altered based off of their typing. But then again, Drowsy Spikes isn't correlated with any type.
 
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You could give everything t-spikes and correlate every type with a status? Like, you have five statuses and 18 types, which allows for two statuses to have three types and three to have four (suggested below). Then you can have a "primary association" for each type of spike (lets say poison, fire, ice, electric and grass) that clears its respective spike. While sleep can't be completely type associated, grass is a better shot than any other type due to it being immune to two sleep moves (spore and sleep powder).
Poison:
  • Poison
  • Bug
  • Dark
  • Flying
Burn:
  • Fire
  • Ghost
  • Dragon
  • Ground
Paralysis:
  • Electric
  • Fighting
  • Steel
Sleep:
  • Grass
  • Normal
  • Psychic
  • Fairy
Freeze:
  • Ice
  • Water
  • Rock
Honestly it doesn't matter that much how well they match the theme of the status as what matters is the gameplay. Some of those were hard to place (flying makes no f*cking sense for any of these), but I did my best to stay at least somewhat thematic.
 
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A Poison-type Pokemon that is not grounded will not absorb Toxic Spikes, so I assume that this applies to the rest of the new Spikes. That is kinda sad, since Rotom-Heat or even Rotom-Mow could have been Spike-absorbing threats in the metagame.
A combination of Electric types and Abomasnow is very solid, considering Abomasnow absorbs two Spikes types, and it's low speed is fixed with Static Spikes. Overall, strong mixed attackers have relatively high speed and attack if the opponent is paralyzed and it's not, with Abomasnow being the best example.
 
the someone said:
A Poison-type Pokemon that is not grounded will not absorb Toxic Spikes, so I assume that this applies to the rest of the new Spikes. That is kinda sad, since Rotom-Heat or even Rotom-Mow could have been Spike-absorbing threats in the metagame.
A combination of Electric types and Abomasnow is very solid, considering Abomasnow absorbs two Spikes types, and it's low speed is fixed with Static Spikes. Overall, strong mixed attackers have relatively high speed and attack if the opponent is paralyzed and it's not, with Abomasnow being the best example.
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Aww :(. ANY Rotom forme which countered spikes would end up cool (literally-Rotom Frost)
 
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