Move Stealth Rock

[Ryker]

I would like to thank these "quality" users that did a fine job at derailing this thread from its intended purpose (you know who you are), and turning it into, I believe the phrase is: " a clusterfuck". This thread is to discuss the users of Stealth Rock in Generation 6, especially the users now and those after December 27th (when PokeBank is released). Consider this a general warning, if I catch users going off topic, and complaining that Stealth Rock is broken / needs to be banned / damage caps or whatever, I will instantly infract. Please don't test my patience, and stick to the threads intended purpose please.

Have a nice day.

Read that before you post, please dear God.

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Love it or hate it, Stealth Rock has been one of the most important moves for a few generations now. It's essential to most teams because of just how good it is at punishing switching and ensuring KOs. When you think of OU Stealth Rock, there are more than just a couple Pokemon that should jump to mind from gen 5. You have everything from TTar and Lando to Heatran and Ninetails. One of the first thing you would analyze on team preview are what the reasonable Stealth Rock threats were.

Having arrived in gen 6, we have acquired more options and a time where people are going to experiment with more and more things. My challenge to you is to identify what we have as Stealth Rock threats in the new generation.

Currently I can see Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Aggron, and Tyrantrum. At the moment, I'm having trouble finding the Stealth Rock user I need for some teams (before we get Pokebank). This is what got me started thinking about what exactly there is to throw up rocks in this gen.

 

[Jazzy]

Well stealth rocks may be more dominate then spikes/Tspikes now since defog removes hazards.

 

[GrislyBear]

Ferrothorn can still drop rocks. I think Tyranitar can too.

 

[Ryker]

While not my original intent, listing what we still have in the current pre-pokebank game is interesting as well.

 

[Jazzy]

At the moment a lot of people are using Tyrantrum/Skarmory/Ttar/Klefki to set up rocks.

 

[lucas14121]

I think Chestnaught and Barbaracle will be able to set up stealth rocks.

 

[Ryker]

Chesnaught can get spikes, not SR, if I remember correctly.

 

[UltiMario]

At the moment a lot of people are using Tyrantrum/Skarmory/Ttar/Klefki to set up rocks.

Klefi can't learn Stealth Rock.

 

[Fangren]

Carbink gets Stealth Rock, though I don't know how good it'll be overall.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Well stealth rocks may be more dominate then spikes/Tspikes now since defog removes hazards.

Stealth Rock was less dominant than Spikes? That's news to me.

Do people really use Megas for setting up SR? Seems like a waste, especially with more hazard emphasized game. Maybe except for Aerodactyl...

 

[Kibblecat]

Whether it's relevant to most of you or not, it's actually impossible at present to get a Ground-immune to set up rocks on XY cartridge teams at present - unless I'm missing something massive, the only one who gets it from an Egg move is Skarmory, and the only possible parents are other Skarmory and the Archeops line (both of which only got it from the BW tutors anyway). With the exception of the likes of Mamoswine, Ferrothorn and Forretress (I don't know off the top if there are possible parents for all of them), that leaves us with few obtainable, viable Rock setters - makes me wonder if people will find alternatives (not that I don't recognise that the majority of gameplay happens on sims, nowadays).

Just to clarify, the only Pokemon that learn it through level up are Steelix, Golem, Gigalith, Crustle, and Carbink (unless any other XY newcomers have been found to have it too).

I'd only dare speculate that this might affect usage figures of some of the lesser used rockers, like Aggron (particularly with his mega-evolution), Probopass and Steelix.

 

[Eriorguez]

After the introduction of a third entry hazard flying types and levitators can ignore, I still don't get why this one hasn't been retooled as the entry hazard to screw up stuff inmune to spikes, rather than the hazard that fucks up everything weak to rock. Oh well, Gamefreak logic.

ATM we have a quite limited pool of users, and most of them are slow but with Sturdy and quite decent bulk, weaknesses nonwithstanding. So until December taunt will keep rocks out just fine I'd guess.

 

[Fangren]

Just to clarify, the only Pokemon that learn it through level up are Steelix, Golem, Gigalith, Crustle, and Carbink (unless any other XY newcomers have been found to have it too).

Tyrantrum also learns rocks naturally, I think.

 

[AstralFire]

Tyrantrum also learns rocks naturally, I think.

I can confirm it does, Tyrunt even starts with it.

 

[Cogg]

TTar still remains prominent, I think he's gonna stay at the head of the 'Rockers. With his Mega evo, not that's a good idea in the slightest, unless you have a team that can run it well, he gets double sandstorm (if necessary) and a lot bulkier, making it easy for him to get Rocks up and to trade some hits. Great on sandstorm teams might I add, with the nerfing of weather effects and all.

 

[56k]

I will still be using this move because even if their whole team is neutral to it, you do a minimum of 62.5% damage throughout the match. If they stack up on pokemon that resist it then they're probably over-focusing and building weakness to earthquake or flying stabs. Defog and rapid spid spin are counters, but that's why the best rock users are bulky, reusable, and have nice STAB threats in their own right. My opponent also probably takes 25% damage just when they switch in to defog, and hopefully it sacrificially dies in the process. Was it really worth trashing your crobat or your starmie just to get dragonite in safely?

 

[Kibblecat]

I can confirm it does, Tyrunt even starts with it.

Yes, I've since seen that, but my point still stands since despite strong offensive and defensive typing and a solid attack stat, I don't see him overtaking other similar pokemon due to lack of his own niche. But then, that's my opinion/instinct on him, which is open to debate, but not here, as Tyrantrum's a different topic.

I can agree very strongly that Rocks will be a huge factor in T-Tars usage this Gen, particularly for people like me, who, in previous Gens, weren't a fan of having a permanent Sandstorm on a team that wasn't designed around it (although I'll concede that it wasn't always an issue for standard offensive teams to have a Sandstorm going on, and late-game-Tar solved that compatibility issue anyway); the mixed-blessing of losing perma-weather has given SR-users like Tar, and in December Hippowdon, a lot of splashability.

Having looked again, however, at our Fairy-type-rocker, I think Carbink might get some use early on, at least; it has great defences (50/150/150, I believe) access to boosting (albeit from a pretty poor Attack stat and no Fairy-type physical STAB), Stealth Rocks, dual screens, status (Toxic), and a reasonable set of resistances (including Dragon immunity) - it's missing Taunt and reliable recovery, but it's nothing special in itself. With the right support it could be a reasonable rock setter, and it might see usage early on this meta if for nothing other than access to rocks, provided teams can build around having a steel resistance (steels types are fairly common and splashable anyway) and an EQ immune (again, not much of a tall order) - he could form part of a defensive core. Don't get me wrong, he won't be the best rock setter, and he's massive taunt bait, but he's worth playing around with.

 

[Ryker]

I will still be using this move because even if their whole team is neutral to it, you do a minimum of 62.5% damage throughout the match. If they stack up on pokemon that resist it then they're probably over-focusing and building weakness to earthquake or flying stabs. Defog and rapid spid spin are counters, but that's why the best rock users are bulky, reusable, and have nice STAB threats in their own right. My opponent also probably takes 25% damage just when they switch in to defog, and hopefully it sacrificially dies in the process. Was it really worth trashing your crobat or your starmie just to get dragonite in safely?

Pretty sure no one was saying the move should be passed up this gen. People are only noting how limited our options are at the moment and what possible rock users we've gained.

 

[WaterlooZoo]

I hate Stealth Rock. I hate that it's so good and ubiquitous that it forces EVERYONE to use it. Yes, I use it too, and I hate it. Unfortunately, this gen it's only better than ever... *sigh* If this move didn't exist, I could actually have fun trying to integrate Ice/Fire/Bug/Flying types.

When the first leaks for X/Y were coming out, I was crossing my fingers to find out about a Stealth Rock nerf. This was literally the thing I cared about the most in X/Y.... But it wasn't meant to be.

So far I have yet to play a competitive Gen 6 battle in which my opponent did not use Stealth Rock. But I know Smogon will never ban the move. It's too beloved. So we're stuck with it.

 

[Bravadorado]

I hate Stealth Rock. I hate that it's so good and ubiquitous that it forces EVERYONE to use it. Yes, I use it too, and I hate it. Unfortunately, this gen it's only better than ever... *sigh* If this move didn't exist, I could actually have fun trying to integrate Ice/Fire/Bug/Flying types.

When the first leaks for X/Y were coming out, I was crossing my fingers to find out about a Stealth Rock nerf. This was literally the thing I cared about the most in X/Y.... But it wasn't meant to be.

So far I have yet to play a competitive Gen 6 battle in which my opponent did not use Stealth Rock. But I know Smogon will never ban the move. It's too beloved. So we're stuck with it.

I'd say the buff to Defog was a pretty good Stealth Rock nerf, no? Stealth Rock is moreso the best hazard now probably, but it's not necessarily worth it if your opponent has Defog.

 

[PKMN1]

Personally, it focuses the game so much and so severely hurts so many pokemon that I believe it should be banned, though i know its never happening because Most of Smogon SEEMS to love it and ignore the obvious.

 

[poutowz]

I don't see any real problem with the move despite the fact that it's greatly overused...i'll be honest i don't like the move though because of that fact

 

[Kakimori]

Without Stealth Rock, Volcarona would haunt my dreams.

 

[PKMN1]

I don't see any real problem with the move despite the fact that it's greatly overused...i'll be honest i don't like the move though because of that fact

How about the fact many pokemon are not used SIMPLY because the moment they come in in most matches they take 1/4 or 1/2 half and to stop it requires you having a SPECIFIC move that not a huge amount of pokemon get. While it is true that defog got buffed, many of the maine users of the move, are ALSO weak to the Stealth rock.

 

[Manaphy]

Having looked again, however, at our Fairy-type-rocker, I think Carbink might get some use early on, at least; it has great defences (50/150/150, I believe) access to boosting (albeit from a pretty poor Attack stat and no Fairy-type physical STAB), Stealth Rocks, dual screens, status (Toxic), and a reasonable set of resistances (including Dragon immunity) - it's missing Taunt and reliable recovery, but it's nothing special in itself. With the right support it could be a reasonable rock setter, and it might see usage early on this meta if for nothing other than access to rocks, provided teams can build around having a steel resistance (steels types are fairly common and splashable anyway) and an EQ immune (again, not much of a tall order) - he could form part of a defensive core. Don't get me wrong, he won't be the best rock setter, and he's massive taunt bait, but he's worth playing around with.

Yeah, I'm gonna agree with you here, Carbink's not that bad. His typing is unique and his resists are actually really solid, while Steel, Ground, and Grass resists are very easily to come by and implement. He's got a movepool problem (Z version pls!) and doesn't like Taunt at all but he's good at what he does.