Steps to a Better Metagame (Currently Discussion Phase)

bestoise97 said:
What if when you switch a rock type in when a opponent uses SR your rock type absorbs them and gains +1 in defense? That way you can still use SR but they arent so easy to set up?
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Rock types removing SR actually gives them a reason to be used, since it's one of the types that got screwed in the matchup department. But realistically, this just increases centralization around Tyranitar (and to a lesser extent, Terrakion)... which to me doesn't seem like a better metagame.

Typing wise... Ice, Grass, Normal, Rock and Psychic need defensive improvement while Psychic and Poison need offensive improvement... and the types also need to be balanced between offense and defense (Steel doesn't need much of an improvement, even if it has low offensive coverage).

They also need some reason to distinguish from other types... Ice resisting any two of Ground, Water, Flying leads to a unique combination that might decrease the over usage of Flying and Ground attacks in the meta.
 
Stealth Rock: Deals %damage to switch ins equal to their usage stat.

Jokes aside, just remove the type super-effectiveness (damage can still be reduced by resisting rock, but no longer increased by being weak to it.)
 
So it's now the 16th of August. This means that everyone is permitted to submit up to THREE potential changes for the current OU metagame. Feel free to submit modifications similar to those already submitted; just make sure they are at least slightly different. If a large enough majority appears to want to change one thing in particular (Knock Off seems to be pretty popular), I'll run an individual vote for how we want it to change. I'll open it up with a few submissions:

1. Knock Off no longer gets a 1.5x power boost if it successfully removes the opponent's item.

2. Florges is now Fairy/Grass type.

3. Pokemon that resist the Rock-type are now immune to the damaging effect of Stealth Rock.
 
1. The Ice type now resists Dragon and Ground. (Ice only resists itself at the moment, and resisting Dragon and Ground will help the type a lot as those are some of the most dangerous types)

2. Poison type beats Water type. (The water type is one of the most powerful types in the current metagame, and the fact it only has 2 weaknesses is quite unfair. Poison could get another boost, so Rotom-Wash etc. can be handled easier)

3. Gale Wings gives flying type moves +0.5 priority (Talonflame is annoying. Utilizing this would mean it can be countered way easier)
 
1. Knock off is now 40 BP and still gets the 1.5x boost.

2. Gale Wings now makes talonflame's flying moves always move first in their priority bracket (not +1, its neutral but outspeeds all neutral threats with flying attacks).

3. The Ice type resists water and ground types, and takes normal damage from rock types, while the water type takes super effective damage from bug and normal.

So heres what I feel about these 3.

1. Knock off doesn't need nerfing back to its gen 5 status. Knock off is overcentralizing now, but it should still be threatening; it needs its place in the metagame. It limits some pokemon, but it gives niches to others in many cases, such as bisharp. Meanwhile mega stones still exist, it isin't that hard to switch into knock off nowadays. I think eliminating knock off hitting hard will keep it having a niche, since its not all that weak, and it still can knock off useful items.

2. Talonflame is a bitch atm, and its really kind of unfair. I don't really like the fact that it can beat other priority users like azumarill, but it should still have priority to be able to have its niche as a whole. Therefore I think making its flying type moves always go first in the common priority bracket, zero, gives it its niche of revenge killing and checking sweepers while not being as absurd at doing that job as it is now.

3. Ice needs a buff, and one of its main issues is taking normal from rock types. Meanwhile using edgequake is one of the most risk-free coverage uses in the game, which to me is kind of unfair. One of ice's main issues is weak to stealth rock, making almost all users of this type useless, so I remedy that by making it neutral to rock. At the same time water is one of the best types in the current metagame, and it makes sense for ice to resist it tbh so thats what should be done. This will also hopefully give offense better azumarill checks, and maybe make kyurem-b a little better (if its broken we can ban it, but i dont think a slightly better defensive typing (still no ice stab) and no longer having weakness to stealth rock will make it broken) then it already is for offense. This will mainly make countering many water types much easier. Ground type being resisted goes back to edgequake, while rock hits normal damage and ground hits NVE to ice to give it the niche as beating ground-type edgequake abusers not named excadrill. Water is also way too good defensively, and bug is one of the worst offensive types. So there we go, bug type moves have a better niche. Stuff like x-scissor on terrakion becomes much more useful than hitting psychic types. Also we can take normal, one of the most useless offensive types in the game, and give it the niche of beating up on one of the best typings in the game. It also give the azumarill another weakness to hit it on, making it easier to beat in general.



Stealth rock nerf is stupid, Idk why you think you guys have a point here. GF nerfed SR this last gen with the defog buff, and tbh I don't really think that it needs further nerfing since its not that good anymore. Sure you "need" rocks for many teams, but that applies to whether or not its easily removed or not; its an opportunity to apply quick pressure to the opposing team and shapes pokemon battles as they are. Thinking this is unhealthy is just a straight line of thinking, since you are just taking a passive aspect that can make the game more complicated and eliminating it citing that its overpowered. Without stealth rock we would just get a metagame without that aspect of complication, and meanwhile pokemon like zapdos and mandibuzz would completely lose all their niche. Volcarona would also shoot straight up into ubers, and talonflame could follow. Stealth rock is overcentralizing to its users, yes, but better distribution could fix this if its really that bad, but tbh its not. Say hi to azumarill for offense and tell me SR is overcentralizing to its users rather than water resists being overcentralizing because of BD azumarill. And really, stealth rock is overcentralizing to its users but it has good users, terrakion being by far the best of them being able to run scarf RK sets and having taunt to stallbreak along with good bulk, and it can also be a fighting type that can beat bisharp and mega mawile (if you pack EQ). There are so many good stealth rock users with niches its not even funny, so I don't see that argument either. Nerfing stealth rock into a gimmick would be nearly impossible, you either nerf it to it being not very good and the above happening or you keep it being very powerful. You either need to pack hazard control or you don't, there is no in-between for teambuilding when it comes to stealth rock in general even if its uniform all around. There is no getting around this, this means that SR will either be powerful and centralizing or a gimmick that is useless. This doesn't even come to mention the unholy terrors that can come from the item called focus sash, as it can literally rip apart the current metagame in seconds without stealth rock in place. Stealth rock stops breloom from consistently putting something to sleep, it stops unburden hawlucha from sweeping offensive teams w/o priority 10/10, and it stops every pokemon from having a COMPLETELY foolproof way to live a single attack in any circumstances period, which to me is just stupid.

SR nerf boils down to this:
1. It was already nerfed due to defog
2. It is overcentralized to its users, but it has many viable users, and if you still think that is a problem we could just change the distribution.
3. It gives many pokemon niches in OU, such as starmie (post-aegi), mandibuzz, zapdos, etc.
4. It prevents many pokemon from going from pretty good or not-so-good to banworthy in seconds, such as volcarona, talonflame, hawlucha, thundurus-i, dragonite etc.
5. Focus sash would become the most overcentralizing item ever, being able to be used on virtually anything to guarantee multiple hits on almost all opponents and sweep teams without priority.
6. You can't nerf SR itself, since you either need defog support or you don't; it will either be very powerful or a useless gimmick. If its worth it it is OP, if its not it isint, which is why saying stuff like "rock types should get rid of SR" wont work since it comes at no opportunity cost.

tl;dr SR nerf is pointless since it removes niches, makes new uber-worthy pokes, would make focus sash ridiculous, and it would still either be great or useless.
 
MoxieInfinite said:
...or just play DPP OU. That shit was actually fun. And balanced. And fun.
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The point is to make a meta similar to that while incorporating gen 6 mons and moves
xJownage said:
1. Knock off is now 40 BP and still gets the 1.5x boost.

2. Gale Wings now makes talonflame's flying moves always move first in their priority bracket (not +1, its neutral but outspeeds all neutral threats with flying attacks).

3. The Ice type resists water and ground types, and takes normal damage from rock types, while the water type takes super effective damage from bug and normal.

So heres what I feel about these 3.

1. Knock off doesn't need nerfing back to its gen 5 status. Knock off is overcentralizing now, but it should still be threatening; it needs its place in the metagame. It limits some pokemon, but it gives niches to others in many cases, such as bisharp. Meanwhile mega stones still exist, it isin't that hard to switch into knock off nowadays. I think eliminating knock off hitting hard will keep it having a niche, since its not all that weak, and it still can knock off useful items.

2. Talonflame is a bitch atm, and its really kind of unfair. I don't really like the fact that it can beat other priority users like azumarill, but it should still have priority to be able to have its niche as a whole. Therefore I think making its flying type moves always go first in the common priority bracket, zero, gives it its niche of revenge killing and checking sweepers while not being as absurd at doing that job as it is now.

3. Ice needs a buff, and one of its main issues is taking normal from rock types. Meanwhile using edgequake is one of the most risk-free coverage uses in the game, which to me is kind of unfair. One of ice's main issues is weak to stealth rock, making almost all users of this type useless, so I remedy that by making it neutral to rock. At the same time water is one of the best types in the current metagame, and it makes sense for ice to resist it tbh so thats what should be done. This will also hopefully give offense better azumarill checks, and maybe make kyurem-b a little better (if its broken we can ban it, but i dont think a slightly better defensive typing (still no ice stab) and no longer having weakness to stealth rock will make it broken) then it already is for offense. This will mainly make countering many water types much easier. Ground type being resisted goes back to edgequake, while rock hits normal damage and ground hits NVE to ice to give it the niche as beating ground-type edgequake abusers not named excadrill. Water is also way too good defensively, and bug is one of the worst offensive types. So there we go, bug type moves have a better niche. Stuff like x-scissor on terrakion becomes much more useful than hitting psychic types. Also we can take normal, one of the most useless offensive types in the game, and give it the niche of beating up on one of the best typings in the game. It also give the azumarill another weakness to hit it on, making it easier to beat in general.



Stealth rock nerf is stupid, Idk why you think you guys have a point here. GF nerfed SR this last gen with the defog buff, and tbh I don't really think that it needs further nerfing since its not that good anymore. Sure you "need" rocks for many teams, but that applies to whether or not its easily removed or not; its an opportunity to apply quick pressure to the opposing team and shapes pokemon battles as they are. Thinking this is unhealthy is just a straight line of thinking, since you are just taking a passive aspect that can make the game more complicated and eliminating it citing that its overpowered. Without stealth rock we would just get a metagame without that aspect of complication, and meanwhile pokemon like zapdos and mandibuzz would completely lose all their niche. Volcarona would also shoot straight up into ubers, and talonflame could follow. Stealth rock is overcentralizing to its users, yes, but better distribution could fix this if its really that bad, but tbh its not. Say hi to azumarill for offense and tell me SR is overcentralizing to its users rather than water resists being overcentralizing because of BD azumarill. And really, stealth rock is overcentralizing to its users but it has good users, terrakion being by far the best of them being able to run scarf RK sets and having taunt to stallbreak along with good bulk, and it can also be a fighting type that can beat bisharp and mega mawile (if you pack EQ). There are so many good stealth rock users with niches its not even funny, so I don't see that argument either. Nerfing stealth rock into a gimmick would be nearly impossible, you either nerf it to it being not very good and the above happening or you keep it being very powerful. You either need to pack hazard control or you don't, there is no in-between for teambuilding when it comes to stealth rock in general even if its uniform all around. There is no getting around this, this means that SR will either be powerful and centralizing or a gimmick that is useless. This doesn't even come to mention the unholy terrors that can come from the item called focus sash, as it can literally rip apart the current metagame in seconds without stealth rock in place. Stealth rock stops breloom from consistently putting something to sleep, it stops unburden hawlucha from sweeping offensive teams w/o priority 10/10, and it stops every pokemon from having a COMPLETELY foolproof way to live a single attack in any circumstances period, which to me is just stupid.

SR nerf boils down to this:
1. It was already nerfed due to defog
2. It is overcentralized to its users, but it has many viable users, and if you still think that is a problem we could just change the distribution.
3. It gives many pokemon niches in OU, such as starmie (post-aegi), mandibuzz, zapdos, etc.
4. It prevents many pokemon from going from pretty good or not-so-good to banworthy in seconds, such as volcarona, talonflame, hawlucha, thundurus-i, dragonite etc.
5. Focus sash would become the most overcentralizing item ever, being able to be used on virtually anything to guarantee multiple hits on almost all opponents and sweep teams without priority.
6. You can't nerf SR itself, since you either need defog support or you don't; it will either be very powerful or a useless gimmick. If its worth it it is OP, if its not it isint, which is why saying stuff like "rock types should get rid of SR" wont work since it comes at no opportunity cost.

tl;dr SR nerf is pointless since it removes niches, makes new uber-worthy pokes, would make focus sash ridiculous, and it would still either be great or useless.
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Excellent point on the state of SR in the current meta, but I feel that my submission for a small SR nerf is fair enough. It still hurts Charizard and Volcarona in extreme amounts and can whittle down common VoltTurners like Rotom and Landorus.
 
I always imagines SR being the inverse of spikes. Flying types that are immune to spikes get nailed by rocks - so I'd go one step further and just make it only hit non-grounded pokemon.
 
nightsitter that defeats the point. Your submission doesn't even adress the issue; stealth rock being overpowered and overcentralizing. But to be honest, I think the current SR meta is better. While making rock types not take damage is okay, it doesn't improve them at all; they took neutral damage from SR anyways and weren't made more or less viable by SR to begin with. Meanwhile If you make them absorb stealth rock, rock types will either be overcentralizing or SR will stop being used due to the commonness of pokes like terrakion.
 
xJownage said:
Stealth rock nerf is stupid, Idk why you think you guys have a point here. GF nerfed SR this last gen with the defog buff, and tbh I don't really think that it needs further nerfing since its not that good anymore.
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Yes, SR has been indirectly nerfed but it's still on every team. Saying that it's not that good anymore is downright laughable. Did you read my brief reasoning as to why it's broken as hell? All the reasons I listed are still completely valid.

Sure you "need" rocks for many teams, but that applies to whether or not its easily removed or not; its an opportunity to apply quick pressure to the opposing team and shapes pokemon battles as they are. Thinking this is unhealthy is just a straight line of thinking, since you are just taking a passive aspect that can make the game more complicated and eliminating it citing that its overpowered.
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You are speaking as though we're completely removing SR from the game, lol. I actually like SR a lot and think it makes the game more fun. The fact is, it's unfair and undeniably overpowered.

Without stealth rock we would just get a metagame without that aspect of complication, and meanwhile pokemon like zapdos and mandibuzz would completely lose all their niche. Volcarona would also shoot straight up into ubers, and talonflame could follow.
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This is pure conjecture. Saying things like Volc shooting to ubers with Talonflame is laughable also. Volc is hard countered by the pink blobs with toxic and is easily revenged by the likes of Terrakion and Dragonite.

SR isn't the primary reason why Volc is UU, and it isn't what's keeping Talon and Zard from going to ubers. They're not Mega-Luke, Mega-Kanga or Deoxys. If they had the qualities of a suspect, they would have been suspected already.

Stealth rock is overcentralizing to its users, yes, but better distribution could fix this if its really that bad, but tbh its not.
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Do you mean redistributing it so that 80% of good support pokemon don't have it? If it has sticky web-like distribution, that would most certainly change things up a bit.

Say hi to azumarill for offense and tell me SR is overcentralizing to its users rather than water resists being overcentralizing because of BD azumarill. And really, stealth rock is overcentralizing to its users but it has good users, terrakion being by far the best of them being able to run scarf RK sets and having taunt to stallbreak along with good bulk, and it can also be a fighting type that can beat bisharp and mega mawile (if you pack EQ). There are so many good stealth rock users with niches its not even funny, so I don't see that argument either.
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I'm still not sure exactly what you're trying to say here. But Azumarill is not a threat in the same way SR is a threat. Azumarill can only get a BD off through prediction, a high risk high reward strategy and it still has to be careful of faster priority and water resists. SR is low risk, high reward because it's easy to set up at any time during a game and it trades evenly by forcing the opponent to spend a turn removing it or taking the damage.


Nerfing stealth rock into a gimmick would be nearly impossible, you either nerf it to it being not very good and the above happening or you keep it being very powerful. You either need to pack hazard control or you don't, there is no in-between for teambuilding when it comes to stealth rock in general even if its uniform all around. There is no getting around this, this means that SR will either be powerful and centralizing or a gimmick that is useless.
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You could just make it to be more similar to spikes, without the stacking. Something like hitting flying types for 25% and everything else for 12.5% dmg. It would still be a great move. You don't need to do anything gimmicky to make it fairer.

This doesn't even come to mention the unholy terrors that can come from the item called focus sash, as it can literally rip apart the current metagame in seconds without stealth rock in place. Stealth rock stops breloom from consistently putting something to sleep, it stops unburden hawlucha from sweeping offensive teams w/o priority 10/10, and it stops every pokemon from having a COMPLETELY foolproof way to live a single attack in any circumstances period, which to me is just stupid.
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Once again, you're assuming that SR is completely removed frome existance. If it's nerfed to what I suggested above, then these 'problems' don't exist.

We actually had a SR-less OU ladder last year. I don't recall FS being a big deal but it would definitely be a much more viable item.
 
Rock types not taking damage from SR helps with Sturdy, which a lot of them have. And even if it doesn't make Rock an amazing type, it doesn't mean we can't nominate more buffs for it.

SR does limit really good pokemon (Charizard, Pinsir, Talonflame, Volcarona), but it also makes some others unviable (Articuno). We could also nominated balances to any of these pokemon to make sure they aren't overpowered, and if general consensus doesn't like the SR nerf then it'll be easy to remove it later (a month later, admittedly... this is a really slow process, but I think that's the point).

Here are my nominations:
1. Normal resists Fairy. The normal type is one of those that got screwed defensively (immunity to ghost is nice, but hardly enough). The flavour justification for this is essentially the same as that of Steel: normalcy (in steel's case, technology) isn't affected by fantasy.

2. Fairy no longer resists Bug. Just a good thing... Fairy is already a really good defensive typing.

3. Diancie gets Power Gem and Play Rough. Less need for mixed sets.
 
urdrakonis What you arent accounting for is the fact that all your points about SR being broken will remain or go away. SR will either be really good and worth it, and overpowered (which it isin't, its overcentralizing and thats a huge difference), or it will just be a gimmick because it doesn't do enough to be all that useful. This is exactly what sticky web would be if it had viable users; and you see its really good when used right. If it had great users like SR does, then people would complain just as much.

Excuse my wording for saying its not as good anymore, I meant its not THAT good anymore, really saying its much less overpowered, especially since its a lot less overcentralizing to rapid spinners since there are much more reliable and better ways of eliminating rocks than there ever has been before.

The reason I said several things about SR being eliminated was that there were a few people that mentioned it. I tried to speak to both sides, nerfing and eliminating, in my argument.

What I meant was having more SR users; many people complain that SR makes its users too good, or much better than they should be and therefore unworthy of being in such a high position in the tier. While I countered that with the number of good users (garchomp, terrakion, chansey, bisharp, skarmory, etc.) that are available, if people still have a problem with it being overcentralizing than we would redistribute it so more things could use SR, although I would be really opposed to this.

Saying that volcarona is countered by chansey and beaten by Dnite and terrakion (it could just run giga drain fyi) doesn't mean it wouldn't be broken. Most banned mons do have hard counters, genesect --> heatran, stuff like that. It would be massively overcentralizing is the point, as would talonflame, as many times rocks are the one thing detering talon from coming in since it needs at least moderate health to get more than one kill because of recoil and SR damage. If it took half damage from SR (25%), it would still get much, much better, especially since BU sets and taunt sets become much more viable to beat its normal checks and counters. Meanwhile the old banded set would get better as well, as it can come in much easier and has less reliance on SR being removed due to it being suicidal to begin with. Since it doesn't take half its HP from coming in, which would usually leave it only able to get maybe 2 kills, it can instead come in with 75% and guarantee 3 revenge kills/hits or more. So talonflame becomes really powerful with the SR nerf with bulk up and stallbreaker being worlds better, giving it aegislash like unpredictability (not that much, but still) and the ability to completely crush both stall and offense teams with its sets. Talonflame will not be suspected because of the support it requires, and the fact that SR means that stallbreaker and BU sets require massive support, but without this huge opportunity cost at having to keep rocks off the field those sets all of the sudden become much more potent and surely worthy of a suspect/ban.

Azumarill as a sweeper is overcentralizing to an extent that teams without water resists or strong priority will get 5-0'd by a good player. Azumarill's BD set isin't that hard to set up, there are many balanced threats walled by it or that can't OHKO it, which will allow it the ability to set up a belly drum. Azumarill with HP evs doesn't take more than 75% from a lot of threats, so if you bait a certain mon, let it kill you and go to azumarill and they don't have a way to RK it its GG. This means its not a high risk strategy, and while it serves a different purpose it comes at a similar opportunity cost that the 1-turn possible momentum losing move (possibly 2 or 3) comes at. Its different, but they are similar in that way.



In an SR-Less metagame focus sash would be by far the best item, we would have sashmons virtually everywhere since there would be no opportunity cost for most mons to use them.
 
xJownage said:
urdrakonis What you arent accounting for is the fact that all your points about SR being broken will remain or go away. SR will either be really good and worth it, and overpowered (which it isin't, its overcentralizing and thats a huge difference), or it will just be a gimmick because it doesn't do enough to be all that useful. This is exactly what sticky web would be if it had viable users; and you see its really good when used right. If it had great users like SR does, then people would complain just as much.
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Explain how my previous suggestion to fix SR will make it 'useless' and gimmicky. It would still be extremely powerful, it just wouldn't punish things like Avalugg for its bad typing.

What I meant was having more SR users; many people complain that SR makes its users too good, or much better than they should be and therefore unworthy of being in such a high position in the tier. While I countered that with the number of good users (garchomp, terrakion, chansey, bisharp, skarmory, etc.) that are available, if people still have a problem with it being overcentralizing than we would redistribute it so more things could use SR, although I would be really opposed to this.
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Never heard anyone say such a thing. Almost everything that wants SR already has it.

Saying that volcarona is countered by chansey and beaten by Dnite and terrakion (it could just run giga drain fyi) doesn't mean it wouldn't be broken. Most banned mons do have hard counters, genesect --> heatran, stuff like that.
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Surely you know of Scarf Terrakion?

Volc is easy to handle because its speed tier makes it really easy to revenge. Its coverage options are limited, giving it few ways to break through traditional counters like Heatran and pink blobs. Its STABs aren't fit to wallbreak with, so it's a set up sweeper 90% of the time. Look, SR isn't what's keeping it in check, its individual weaknesses are what's keeping it in UU.

It would be massively overcentralizing is the point, as would talonflame, as many times rocks are the one thing detering talon from coming in since it needs at least moderate health to get more than one kill because of recoil and SR damage. If it took half damage from SR (25%), it would still get much, much better, especially since BU sets and taunt sets become much more viable to beat its normal checks and counters. Meanwhile the old banded set would get better as well, as it can come in much easier and has less reliance on SR being removed due to it being suicidal to begin with. Since it doesn't take half its HP from coming in, which would usually leave it only able to get maybe 2 kills, it can instead come in with 75% and guarantee 3 revenge kills/hits or more. So talonflame becomes really powerful with the SR nerf with bulk up and stallbreaker being worlds better, giving it aegislash like unpredictability (not that much, but still) and the ability to completely crush both stall and offense teams with its sets. Talonflame will not be suspected because of the support it requires, and the fact that SR means that stallbreaker and BU sets require massive support, but without this huge opportunity cost at having to keep rocks off the field those sets all of the sudden become much more potent and surely worthy of a suspect/ban.
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Talonflame would definitely benefit much more than Volc, I can easily acknowledge that.

I don't know whether or not it could be Ubers but Gale Wings is already a kind of degenerate ability. +1 BB is something I expect to see in STABmons or something. I don't think there will be many who will mourn the loss of Talonflame (or Gale Wings). If it would help stuff like Moltres, Kyurem etc. I think people would be rather happy with it.

Azumarill as a sweeper is overcentralizing to an extent that teams without water resists or strong priority will get 5-0'd by a good player. Azumarill's BD set isin't that hard to set up, there are many balanced threats walled by it or that can't OHKO it, which will allow it the ability to set up a belly drum. Azumarill with HP evs doesn't take more than 75% from a lot of threats, so if you bait a certain mon, let it kill you and go to azumarill and they don't have a way to RK it its GG. This means its not a high risk strategy, and while it serves a different purpose it comes at a similar opportunity cost that the 1-turn possible momentum losing move (possibly 2 or 3) comes at. Its different, but they are similar in that way.
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The difference is that stopping Azumarill directly contributes to securing victory. If you spend a turn to defog / rapid spin you are not guaranteed to negate hazard damage completely. They can just set up more hazards later, and you will have to answer it or take the damage. If you revenge kill Azumarill or any other sweeper, that's that; they're done.
 
here are my suggestions:
  1. pokemon with infiltrator should ignore entry hazards
  2. make ice resist bug, ground, water, and electric
  3. gale wings now applies to opponent's flying type moves
I believe that these changes simultaneously make certain top threats manageable, while also making certain lower tier pokemon OU-worthy
1. hazards, while still potent, are now more easily managed (I had crobat in mind with this change)

2. gives the ice type great utility in not only resisting common offensive types, but also resisting the volt-turn combo

3. I didn't want to take talonflame's only niche away, so instead I made it so other flying types (scarf staraptor for example) can now check it
 
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Emerald Master said:
here are my suggestions:
  1. pokemon with infiltrator should ignore entry hazards
  2. make ice resist bug, ground, water, and electric
  3. gale wings now applies to opponent's flying type moves
I believe that these changes simultaneously make certain top threats manageable, while also making certain lower tier pokemon OU-worthy
1. hazards, while still potent, are now more easily managed (I had crobat in mind with this change)

2. gives the ice type great utility in not only resisting common offensive types, but also resisting the volt-turn combo

3. I didn't want to take talonflame's only niche away, so instead I made it so other flying types (scarf staraptor for example) can now check it
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I like the concept, but the idea of this project is to make very small changes. Adding 4 resists to one type is a bit too much; I'd say an absolute maximum of two at a time, although I would prefer one. Otherwise, great submissions!
 
A small suggestion: editing the title (if it's possible) to indicate which phase we're in would make it easier and give people a better idea of what to expect... and I'm sure there are people who are interested in one aspect of this process more than others (though that may be defeating the point).
 
Yay I'm late for the first voting phase. Anyway, PM me your top five changes from the current list.
1. Knock Off no longer gets a 1.5x power boost if it successfully removes the opponent's item.
2. Florges is now Fairy/Grass type.
3. Pokemon that resist the Rock-type are now immune Stealth Rock damage.
1. The Ice type now resists Dragon and Ground.
2. Poison is now supereffective against Water.
3. Gale Wings gives flying type moves +0.5 priority instead of +1.
1. Knock off is now 40 BP and still gets the 1.5x boost.
2. The Ice type now resists Water and Ground.
3. Water now takes supereffective damage from Bug and Normal.
1. Normal now resists Fairy.
2. Fairy takes neutral damage from Bug.
3. Diancie gets Power Gem and Play Rough as level-up moves.
1. Pokemon with Infiltrator are immune to all entry hazards.
2. Ice now resists Bug and Electric.
3. Gale Wings applies to the entire field when a user is in play.
Votes should be in the following format (example list does not necessarily reflect my opinion):

nightsitter 1, MegaGallade 1, xJownage 1, a__man 1, Emerald Master 1

The number following each username corresponds to which of the user's three submissions you are choosing. Your list of votes should be in descending order of preference (that means your favorite one comes first). Remember PM your votes to me, and you must select five. You can even vote for all three of your own, as long as you select two others with them.

If, by the end of the voting phase, two contradictory changes are selected, only the most popular one will be implemented. This also applies to changes that affect the same thing (type, ability, movepool) so modifications to particular aspects of Pokemon remain minor.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

EDIT: Your votes will carry more weight if you can prove that you are a skilled OU player via screenshot or something of the sort. 1650 or higher Elo should be sufficient, though 1800+ is even better.
 
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MegaGallade said:
Sorry. :P
Anyway, I'm guessing you can't vote for yourself.
And say... if xJownage wins, will ALL three of his suggestions be implemented? Or a select few?
Click to expand...
You can even vote for all three of your own, as long as you select two others with them.
Click to expand...
Any combination of changes may be implemented, bar contradictory ones or ones that affect the same aspect of the metagame (Ice's resistances, Diancie's movepool additions, etc.)

EDIT: wow ninja'd
 
Wait, so,
Voters are expected to have played and won against at least three different players during the period with the current changes.
Click to expand...
I didn't quite get that. "during the period with the current changes". Does that mean won against three players last period? Like in the testing stage? If so, wouldn't that be inapplicable this round, then?
 
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