-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Move Sticky Web
- Thread starter Haruno
- Start date
- Status
Point is: NEVER use Galvantula (or Sticky Web user) like a suicide lead. Sticky Web works WAY better (in theory, at least) in the middle of the battle, when Defoggers and Spinners are crippled or fainted.
Galvantula with Life Orb and Volt Turn, Volt Turn, Volt Turn, Volt Turn... and, in the verge of death by recoil (or Stealth Rock), then yes... Sticky Web like a last present.
Sorry for my sorry english :p
Galvantula with Life Orb and Volt Turn, Volt Turn, Volt Turn, Volt Turn... and, in the verge of death by recoil (or Stealth Rock), then yes... Sticky Web like a last present.
Sorry for my sorry english :p
it pretty much renders the whole flying/levitate counter pretty useless thus making everything that relies on sheer power just completely obliterate your team.
Sticky Web is so underrated. The best way to utilize it is with Pokemon that can generally beat Defog / Spin users. Explosion Smeargle works well since you can kamikaze into a Defog / Spin counter. (I'm going to refrain from naming examples so we don't all go and use the same abusers but there are plenty of amazing Pokemon that love Sticky Web).
I've been thinking about eviolite Swadloon as a sticky web setter. When physically defensive (max defense, impish) its defenses become the equivalent of 55/150/129. Which is cool, definitely nice and bulky. It's very different from Leavanny so I don't think comparison is necessary there. It does however deserve being compared to Shuckle as a sticky web setter because their stats are very similar.
Disadvantages over Shuckle:
- No lefties hurts overall survival.
- Is prone to knock off, which is now really common.
- Defensive typing, though allowing lots of switch in opportunities, has crippling weaknesses so Swadloon can rarely stay in long. This doesn't fit the role Swadloon wants to do.
- Has less special bulk than Shuckle when both have a physically defensive set.
- Shuckle has some extra move pool options, like stealth rock, Knock off, infestation, encore, contrary shell smash, and power split.
Advantages:
- Actually has more physical bulk on the physically defensive set, if I'm not mistaken!
- Higher base speed has some uses, though it's still low. It also has higher offenses, which are at least relatively useable with boosts.
- Reliable recovery in synthesis is pretty big. Despite no lefties, this makes Swadloon far less prone to being worn down.
- Lots of other really good movepool options like magic coat, struggle bug, light screen, grass whistle, and interestingly enough calm mind, agility, and iron defense + baton pass.
Potential sets could be bulky baton passing sets, or hazard bouncing+setting sets, that can also maybe set up sunny day (and benefit from it). Grass whistle, though very inaccurate, allows it to maybe set up boosts, while magic coat stops it from being taunt bait.
Just an odd thought, it might not work at all. Any thoughts?
Disadvantages over Shuckle:
- No lefties hurts overall survival.
- Is prone to knock off, which is now really common.
- Defensive typing, though allowing lots of switch in opportunities, has crippling weaknesses so Swadloon can rarely stay in long. This doesn't fit the role Swadloon wants to do.
- Has less special bulk than Shuckle when both have a physically defensive set.
- Shuckle has some extra move pool options, like stealth rock, Knock off, infestation, encore, contrary shell smash, and power split.
Advantages:
- Actually has more physical bulk on the physically defensive set, if I'm not mistaken!
- Higher base speed has some uses, though it's still low. It also has higher offenses, which are at least relatively useable with boosts.
- Reliable recovery in synthesis is pretty big. Despite no lefties, this makes Swadloon far less prone to being worn down.
- Lots of other really good movepool options like magic coat, struggle bug, light screen, grass whistle, and interestingly enough calm mind, agility, and iron defense + baton pass.
Potential sets could be bulky baton passing sets, or hazard bouncing+setting sets, that can also maybe set up sunny day (and benefit from it). Grass whistle, though very inaccurate, allows it to maybe set up boosts, while magic coat stops it from being taunt bait.
Just an odd thought, it might not work at all. Any thoughts?
252+ Atk Mew Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shuckle: 46-55 (18.8 - 22.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mew Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Swadloon: 63-75 (20 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Shuckle will always be more bulky than swadloon, so you have to have other reasons why Swadloon could be better.
The problem with both Swadloon and Shuckle is that because they're so non-present, they basically scream PLEASE SET UP ON ME FOR FREE which honestly, is worse than kamikazeing your Smeargle or Galvantula and going 5-6 for the rest of the match. Even Leavanny has at least a workable Attack stat.
Seeing that Defog so common in this metagame, I've toyed with the idea of using Bisharp as part of a core with Galvantula. Often Bisharp's mere presence is enough to scare Defog users into not defogging, and the speed drops help out against things like Terrakion. For more bonus points, you can pair it with Gengar or even better, Air Ballon Aegislash to spinblock. Granted, that is a lot more support than you'd normally ask for, just to keep one entry hazard afloat (though I suppose, it isn't much different than Deosharp?)
Seeing that Defog so common in this metagame, I've toyed with the idea of using Bisharp as part of a core with Galvantula. Often Bisharp's mere presence is enough to scare Defog users into not defogging, and the speed drops help out against things like Terrakion. For more bonus points, you can pair it with Gengar or even better, Air Ballon Aegislash to spinblock. Granted, that is a lot more support than you'd normally ask for, just to keep one entry hazard afloat (though I suppose, it isn't much different than Deosharp?)
LATIOS_
Banned deucer.
I know this is old, but Contrary can take advantage of SW because of it increasing speed rather than decreasing.
Or you could lead with a smeargle, and have it use magic coat so when your opponents galvantula tries to use sticky web it goes to their side of the field, and while they switch to their rapid spinner you set up SR, and when they try to rapid spin you send out your spin blocker, and they're screwed because they needed sticky web up 4 their m-Garchomp to be able to out speed something.
Shuckle is NU, Galvantula is a much better option.
There are reasons shuckle is NU, and there are multi-hit moves. If you need to be sure your Galvantula will live a hit give it a focus sash. Shuckle has absolutly no Hp, none whatsoever, its max hp is like 118, or probably less.
1. It has a max hp of 244.
2. There is no single multi hit move that can OHKO shuckle even at 5 hits.
3. It has a low HP stat. That's correct. But you're ignoring the 230 base defenses.
4. Stop judging shuckle based on it being NU. Galvantula is an offensive suicide lead. Shuckle is not a suicide lead. It's a tank that can set up the 2 best hazards in the game with ease.
Shuckle has SR, Power Split, and Gastro Acid.
Gastro Acid being kind of gimmicky but works very well depending on the ability like Mega mom if you're playing with randoms, and talonflame.
One of the major advantages Shuckle has is that it's pretty bulky. Galvantula dies pretty quickly to a breeze but Shuckle can take a beating before dying. This makes Shuckle useful in being able to reapply Sticky Web after it's been removed by the opponent.
You know who else is NU? Mandibuzz. Oh wait
Pokemon move up and down tiers as the metagame changes. Shuckle will probably be used a bit more because of sticky web. Yes, galvantula is good too, but they're both very different pokemon otherwise and shuckle might fit into your team better than galvantula does.
I'm not sure if this has been posted here yet, but Sticky Web can also wreck Shell Smash users such as Cloyster and Barbaracle that rely on their White Herb to fix their defenses. They come in, lose the speed to SW and the WH activates to fix the speed.
Shuckle's max defenses are 614, and while that may sound good after a SD most good physical attackers have around 500-600 attack
Edit: and Special attackers have nasty plot
Here's a damage calc: +1 Adamant max Atk MegaCharX Flare Blitz vs max Def max HP Shuckle
is 66.3 - 78.6%
Edit: and Special attackers have nasty plot
Here's a damage calc: +1 Adamant max Atk MegaCharX Flare Blitz vs max Def max HP Shuckle
is 66.3 - 78.6%
Last edited:
Yes, but you also have to remember that you can't have both defense stats maxed(unless you don't want max Hp, but thats not a good idea)
I would say that its a terrible first turn move. Using it on the first turn and sacrificing your sticky web user (since there all extremely frail bar shuckle, and there's no reason to use shuckle ever) is just asking it to be cleared away very early on, while their defog or rapid spin user is still extremely healthy. If your going to use it, its better to set up mid or late match when their defog/rapid spin user is weakened or you can keep enough momentum to prevent it from getting a chance to clear sticky web away.
And why is Shuckle being suggested? Yes it got a good move. However its still set up bait to literally anything that is immune to toxic and it doesn't have reliable recovery to keep it alive (rest making it even more of set up bait). Additionally, it's crippled by taunt and trick and can't get around substitute at all. Shuckle gives up all your momentum in an instant because so many pokemon can comfortable sit in on it. Even if no pokemon "outclasses" it as a bulky sticky web user, its still is a terrible pokemon in its own unique right.
Last edited:
- Status