Yes, it can, and considering most Pokemon are in XY anyway it's being presumptuous to assume that no other Pokemon could possibly change.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other Subtle but important nerfs
- Thread starter ShravanP
- Start date
- Status
Shroomisaur
Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Yes, that's why I call Fury Cutter a "novelty", it certainly doesn't deserve a moveslot but it's still a new option and I think most people didn't even notice it. Breloom's always been a Pokemon that just can't cover all of its potential counters, and that's not going to change. My main point was simply that despite the Spore nerf, Breloom is still going to be a key player.
I agree that the new Overcoat definitely warrants a slash for Forry. Sturdy is still nice to take a rogue HP Fire, but immunity to Spore / Sleep Powder is a big bonus too. I'd probably stick with Sturdy unless your team really has no other Grass-type or sleep absorber.
Honestly, speaking of Forry, I wonder where he'll wind up this gen? With Defog around, Spike stacking is going to be much less valuable, and Rapid Spin will be less necessary as well... this spells big trouble for Forretress.
Yeah, defog really shakes things up a bit. The only thing with Defog though is that it removes hazards on both sides of the field (I believe that's right?) So while you can keep Stealth Rock/ Spikes off your side of the field, you're also sacrificing getting any hazards on your opponents' side of the field. I think it'll definitely be worth it for teams that have SR weak pokes (and thus need it gone), but if you don't... hm. It's a tough decision. A lot of teams will really despise not being able to have SR on the opponents' side of the field, so Rapid Spinners in general definitely still have their place. Maybe just not as high as they were this gen.
Electric-types can no longer be paralyzed.
Actually, i'd say it does.
Physical Mence has its main STAB and coverage moves resisted completely by Azumarill. Even +1 Earthquake barely manages to deal 55% (w/o Life Orb) to it. It needs Stone Edge to even put a dent in Togekiss, and healthy Fairy-types will always be able to check it.
I don't think it's going to be shitty or anything, but it definitely got some notable nerfs.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Doesn't salamence also get thunder fang? I imagine that would do a decent chunk to azumarill and togekiss.
Ghost-type Pokemon aren't affected by Shadow Tag only; Magnet Pull will still keep Aegislash from switching. Not that Magnezone will ever want to switch into Aegislash with it possessing Sacred Sword.
Nope, pretty sure they are unaffected by switch blocking completely.
Didn't really have Azumarill in mind but I agree with you.
That is why I believe that an all out attacking set of EQ, outrage, Fire Blast, and Iron Head would be Garchomp's most effective set this gen. With Iron Head, Garchomp has the ability to 2HKO Togekiss (and Most other Fairies) after SR and Fire Blast still has the utility of OHKOing Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Life Orb EQ also 2HKOes max HP Azumarill, which is pretty neat.
I don't think Chomp really got worse; it just needs to adapt to the new OU enviorment.
Link to where you found this info? I'd like to confirm for myself.
ariariadne
formerly Reinfleche
Ghosts can also dodge Arena Trap now, which may or may not be relevant depending on how used Dugtrio is. I was confused how I was running from Dugtrios in-game with a Honedge.
I think there is even a hex maniac NPC who mentions this in game at the town with the fairy gym. EDIT: Okay maybe not there?
Last edited:
I see. Thank you. But even so...
252+ Atk Life Orb (Aegislash) Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 255-302 (90.74 - 107.47%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (Aegislash): 109-130 (33.64 - 40.12%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Even if Magnezone were able trap Aegislash, it wouldn't survive if he Stance Dances properly.
The Battle Mechanics Research thread here at Smogon confirmed that Aegislash CAN switch out against Magnet Pull.
back to the changes affecting dragons, they can still hit fairies with physical attacks. that's been mentioned already. but the one dragon to really take a hit...hydreigon. its stab and fighting coverage (focus blast or superpower) are resisted by fairies and these fairies have naturally high SpD. i guess this dragon could run flash cannon..
From all the dragons i think Dragonite it's going to suffer the most, since it's the slower and because of that he can maybe miss some 2HKO on annoying fairies like Togekiss, Gardevoir and Mr Mime, something that Mence and Chomp can achieve with some coverage moves. Another interesting changes are the updated stats on some pokémon... That little bonus on Raichu Speed, Scolipede Attack and Roserade Defense (Just to mention some), can really make a difference in the long term... Also, Adamant Slaking Scratch isn't able to OHKO Pikachu xDDDDDD
Dugtrio is going to dive head-first (body-first? does it even have anything other than a head?) between the trapping nerf and weather nerf, even if it doesn't take advantage of weather itself. Dugtrio's only function in OU was to trap ground-weak Pokemon, particularly on Sun teams. For anything else, Dugtrio is terrible. Like, really, really terrible. Not being able to trap Aegislash, one of the new premier Steel-types, is a huge blow to Dugtrio, and its niche in Sun teams of trapping Heatran and T-tar is basically gone.
So ferrothorn now beats breloom most of the times in one to one situations , i like it
And Mega-Mawile, which outright walls any set (even LO-Latios, with help of some SDef EVs) that doesn't carry HP Fire...
Skarm doesn't resist ghost or dark moves now.
252 Atk Adamant CB Tyranitar Crunch vs 252 HP, 252 Def Impish Skarmory: 37.72 - 44.31%. 55.98 - 66.46% at -1 Def. Note that many Skarms don't actually maximize Def. Skarm can't really Roost stall this and whirlwind would drop him down to 20% HP
LO Gengar does along the lines of 30.56 - 36.26% to max SpD heatran with shadow ball, then finish it with a 60.62 - 72.02% focus blast. Such a heatran has no Speed EVs~.
That same shadow ball also does 59.01 - 69.47% to 252 HP, 252 Atk Scizor. It's 31.1 - 36.91% coming from Sash Alakazam. These are all decent chunks that become more and more important later in the game when everything has been chipped at already, and nullifies certain switch ins.
252 Atk Adamant CB Tyranitar Crunch vs 252 HP, 252 Def Impish Skarmory: 37.72 - 44.31%. 55.98 - 66.46% at -1 Def. Note that many Skarms don't actually maximize Def. Skarm can't really Roost stall this and whirlwind would drop him down to 20% HP
LO Gengar does along the lines of 30.56 - 36.26% to max SpD heatran with shadow ball, then finish it with a 60.62 - 72.02% focus blast. Such a heatran has no Speed EVs~.
That same shadow ball also does 59.01 - 69.47% to 252 HP, 252 Atk Scizor. It's 31.1 - 36.91% coming from Sash Alakazam. These are all decent chunks that become more and more important later in the game when everything has been chipped at already, and nullifies certain switch ins.
The day when Salamence is forced to resort to Thunder Fang for coverage, never could I have ever imagined something so amusing, it's a far cry from Gen 4 and it's SpecMeteor Uber days.
About the Jirachi nerf. With steel not resisting dark or ghost anymore it gets hit by those moves harder now.
- Status