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Other Subtle but important nerfs

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I think Steel-types have nerfed almost across the board. Although it received both buffs and nerfs from the new type chart, the big issue is that the best Fairy-types in OU are just Togekiss and Azumarill, and their match-ups vs. Steel-types really haven't changed that much. I suppose Mega Mawile is a new threat that bulky steels can handle well (I'm not entirely sure of its movepool but I know I've been handing it with M Aggron), but that doesn't really match up to Gengar, Hydregion, Aegislash, and Tyranitar who can now spam those Dark and Ghost moves much easier. I dare say Hydregion, who used to forgo Dark STAB altogether, now has an easier time spamming Dark Pulse than Draco Meteor (though DM is still the money move).
 
I think the issue is that while Steel was slightly bumped offensively, there are still very few good Steel moves available out there.
 
Could I bring up the fact that gamefreak decided to forget everything it did for bugs in Gen V, and to introduce the weakest Pokemon (line) of this generation as the only new bug types of this generation. And coupled with the added resistance to bug type moves in fairy type pokemon, has made bug types aggregately the worst offensive type out there (in stats, and now tied with grass in type disadvantages). If it wasn't for sticky web, I would think Gamefreak has completely forgotten about bug type pokemon.
(and now here is where I get silly and mention how both Goodra and Zygarde should have been Dragon/Bug types)
 
bugsinwater said:
And coupled with the added resistance to bug type moves in fairy type pokemon, has made bug types aggregately the worst offensive type out there (in stats, and now tied with grass in type disadvantages).
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Poison still only hits two types Super Effectively, and unlike Bug doesn't effect one type at all (and a common type at that).

Maybe more things resist Bug, but it still gets tough competition from Poison.

Also aggregation is irrelevant to the meta, especially when you have a type that has intentionally bad earlygame members in every gen without the sheer volume Normal and Flying have to dilute it.
 
bugsinwater said:
Could I bring up the fact that gamefreak decided to forget everything it did for bugs in Gen V, and to introduce the weakest Pokemon (line) of this generation as the only new bug types of this generation. And coupled with the added resistance to bug type moves in fairy type pokemon, has made bug types aggregately the worst offensive type out there (in stats, and now tied with grass in type disadvantages). If it wasn't for sticky web, I would think Gamefreak has completely forgotten about bug type pokemon.
(and now here is where I get silly and mention how both Goodra and Zygarde should have been Dragon/Bug types)
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Uturn exists for a reason. It's pretty much the only common bug move seen nowadays and it's still a good move.
 
SomeoneStoleTheNameIWant said:
Right-o. Most Mega-Evolutions tend to stick to hyper-offense or tanking (and whatever it is that Abomasnow is supposed to be doing). Shame... I was hoping for Mega-Miltank, with like Lugia bulk...

However, 56k had a point. Although yes, Choice Trickers generally target Walls, there's still a definite drawback in that (a) the opponent can potentially switch in on the Choice Tricker and set up, and (b) (a bit more indirectly) people may potentially (can't stress that enough) be less likely to run Walls and instead opt for the bulky tanks/nukes that are the Megas, thus cutting down on the niche that Choice Trickers hold.
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The issue is switch ins, scizor was only an example. Latios is/was one of the best trickers but now if TTar or Scizor switch in, they might not even be crippled at all. If you use protect and see the opponent use trick, you've just got a free switch in to your mega, which is nice. I'm only seeing rotoms and latis using trick at the moment, starmie is pretty nonexistent in general because defog has become popular, and jirachi got nerfed so bad.
 
bugsinwater said:
Would you say it would still find as much usage now with the added type disadvantage towards fairy?
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It wasn't used primarily to put on the hurt, but as a pivot move that hits everything (sorry Volt Switch). Sure, some pokemon get good damage out of it too, but another resister is hardly going to reduce its usage.
 
JayHankEdLyon said:
It wasn't used primarily to put on the hurt, but as a pivot move that hits everything (sorry Volt Switch). Sure, some pokemon get good damage out of it too, but another resister is hardly going to reduce its usage.
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Pretty much this, in addition thanks to the defog buff, momentum grabbing moves such as uturn/voltswitch have even more utility than before since they no longer take as much passive damage on the switch.
 
Wait so I have just said Bug Types have become weaker offensively due to adding Fairy types in the mix.
Then this was brought up
Haruno said:
Uturn exists for a reason. It's pretty much the only common bug move seen nowadays and it's still a good move.
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And naturally I asked if it was affected...and then I get this
JayHankEdLyon said:
It wasn't used primarily to put on the hurt, but as a pivot move that hits everything (sorry Volt Switch). Sure, some pokemon get good damage out of it too, but another resister is hardly going to reduce its usage.
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Haruno said:
Pretty much this, in addition thanks to the defog buff, momentum grabbing moves such as uturn/voltswitch have even more utility than before since they no longer take as much passive damage on the switch.
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And that actually is very informative but doesn't then end up changing my original comment talking about how bug types got nerfed this generation. ya?
 
bugsinwater said:
Wait so I have just said Bug Types have become weaker offensively due to adding Fairy types in the mix.
Then this was brought up

And naturally I asked if it was affected...and then I get this


And that actually is very informative but doesn't then end up changing my original comment talking about how bug types got nerfed this generation. ya?
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Gene has never been weak offensively no matter how you put it. Insanely diverse movepool, has an epic boosting move in shift gear, dual 120 cannons + a download boost, stab uturn. Gene really doesn't give a shit about anything. Also resisting fairy and hitting fairies for SE damage with iron head is always nice.

Scizor is still as good as ever being able to check special attackers lacking hp fire with AV/scizorite. It almost never relied on its bug stabs anyways so that's a moot point.

Galvantula has sticky web and thunder/bug buzz beats all spinners/bouncers bar exca which is incredibly nifty.

Overall bug hasn't lost anything this gen if at all.
 
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Haruno said:
Gene has never been weak offensively no matter how you put it. Insanely diverse movepool, has an epic boosting move in shift gear, dual 120 cannons + a download boost, stab uturn. Gene really doesn't give a shit about anything. Also resisting fairy and hitting fairies for SE damage with iron head is always nice.

Scizor is still as good as ever being able to check special attackers lacking hp fire with AV/scizorite. It almost never relied on its bug stabs anyways so that's a moot point.

Galvantula has sticky web and thunder/bug buzz beats all spinners/bouncers bar espeon which is incredibly nifty.

Overall bug hasn't lost anything this gen if at all.
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So I am not talking about bug type pokemon, otherwise I would agree (since typing is all but one variable in how viable a pokemon is). What I am talking about are offensive bug type attacks getting nerfed.
 
Bug types are better because there are so much less x1.5 water and fire attacks from rain and sun. When's the last time scald did 75% to your forretress and burned it?
 
bugsinwater said:
So I am not talking about bug type pokemon, otherwise I would agree (since typing is all but one variable in how viable a pokemon is). What I am talking about are offensive bug type attacks getting nerfed.
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Since when was bug ever used as a coverage move?
 
Haruno said:
Galvantula has sticky web and thunder/bug buzz beats all spinners/bouncers bar espeon which is incredibly nifty.

Overall bug hasn't lost anything this gen if at all.
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Heck, even Espeon gets gnawed on pretty good by Bug Buzz, even if it doesn't take the little purple bugger (lol) down in the process. Electroweb (taking the hit on Focus if need be) -> Thunder/Bug Buzz might even do the job outright.
 
Kyreth said:
Heck, even Espeon gets gnawed on pretty good by Bug Buzz, even if it doesn't take the little purple bugger (lol) down in the process. Electroweb (taking the hit on Focus if need be) -> Thunder/Bug Buzz might even do the job outright.
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meant exca. :X fixes typo.
 
ferrothorn may no longer resist dark/ghost but it now is immune to sleep from sleep powder/spore which i was reminded of harshly in a battle were i forgot about it being part grass so if you used sleep moves to set up on ferrothorn beware if it's sleep powder/spore.
 
This is a nerf nobody will have noticed because I'm pretty sure only I made use of this item: Mail. As far as I'm aware Mail isn't available in Gen 6. The use of Mail was simply to prevent being Tricked a Scarf on say, a Shuckle as I ran it. This item saved my bacon a few times even if people think its usefulness is negligible. I'll be sad to see it go. By this logic I'm hoping Mega Stones can't be Tricked even on non-mega mons, because Trick immunity is sometimes very valuable.
 
Martingale said:
This is a nerf nobody will have noticed because I'm pretty sure only I made use of this item: Mail. As far as I'm aware Mail isn't available in Gen 6. The use of Mail was simply to prevent being Tricked a Scarf on say, a Shuckle as I ran it. This item saved my bacon a few times even if people think its usefulness is negligible. I'll be sad to see it go. By this logic I'm hoping Mega Stones can't be Tricked even on non-mega mons, because Trick immunity is sometimes very valuable.
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Oh, don't worry. You weren't the only one ;]
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Hidden Power is now affect by Technician. So something like Roserade could maybe make use of it. :P
 
cellgoondude said:
Excadrill usually can only become this (unless 2 sand inducers?)
NameItemAbilityNature
Bulky Rapid SpinLeftoversMold BreakerAdamant
MovesetEVs
~ Rapid Spin
~ Earthquake
~ Swords Dance
~ Rock Slide / Substitute 176 HP / 60 Atk / 252 SpD / 20 Spe
That nerfsaur
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Don't need two sand inducers. Excadrill won't be doing much in just five turns of sand, but a Smooth Rock makes for lovely support to trigger Sand Rush. I run Jolly with full offensive EVs and Shadow Claw; I've never found myself wanting Swords Dance over coverage.

I've seen Mold Breaker used effectively, although I'm not sure how much use it could get out of Swords Dance with its lower Speed. I'm also confused about the slash you listed; Rock Slide just isn't optional, and Rapid Spin / Earthquake / Swords Dance / Substitute isn't going to get you any sweeps. Did you mean to slash it over Swords Dance?
 
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