Metagame Suicide Cup

Approved by The Immortal and drampa's grandpa


old art by T-Lukke

Now playable here on the trash channel!

Premise:
In this OM, you win by losing! That is to say the win condition is changed from knocking out all of your opponent's Pokemon to winning by knocking all of yours out first.

Pokemon in Suicide Cup are limited in how they are able to KO themselves, as spamming Memento or Healing Wish would become uncompetitive quickly and are banned. Instead, Pokemon have to rely on indirect damage from effects like Black Sludge, Substitute, Belly Drum, Steel Beam, and even now entry hazards with the new move in Court Change! This leads to a ton of counter play with Taunt, Imprison, Trick, Heal Pulse, and more.

Rules:

Mechanic:
First player to knock out 6 of their own Pokemon wins.

Clauses:
  • Ubers Clauses
  • All Pokémon must be level 100
  • You must have a full team of 6 Pokemon
  • Family Clause: You can only use one Pokemon from their respective evolutionary line

Banned Pokemon
  • Shedinja
Banned Items
  • Choice Scarf
Banned Moves
  • Explosion
  • Memento
  • Healing Wish
  • Self Destruct
  • Final Gambit
  • Magic Room
Unbanned Moves
  • Baton Pass
  • OHKO Moves
Banned Abilities
  • Infiltrator
  • Magic Guard
Strategy:
  • New to gen 8:
    • Court Change lets Cinderace and a whole heap of supportive Pokemon have viability thanks to the feasibility of sacking mons due to heavy SR weaknesses. Dugtrio makes a great setter thanks to Arena Trap, and mons like Charizard and Zen Darm are already viable in addition to their x4 SR weakness. This can be risky with the transition of SR into Court Change as the opponent can prevent it with Taunt as well as sack their own mons while SR is up on their side, or even run Defog on already viable mons like Hawlucha. Replay 1, Replay 2.
    • Steel Beam allows its users to cut their health in half while attacking with a high powered Steel stab. With Black Sludge and Substitute, it can KO the user in just 2 turns. This can be dangerous, as abusers like Bronzor and Togedemaru have very low special attack, and only a few mons in the game (Raltz, Impidimp, Cutiefly, ect) can actually be 1HKO'd by Bronzor. Still, having negative special defense and a weakness to Steel is very useful, as Steel Beam sacks are some of the only ways to check it. Replay 1, Replay 2.
    • Snatch and Magic Coat are gone, which previously were some of the best moves to check faster Substitute / Belly Drum and Taunt users, respectively. In their place is Imprison, which has its own benefits but lost the priority, making faster Imprison users like Rapidash-Galar and Prankster Sableye much more viable.
    • Kommo-o is the sole user of Clangorous Soul, a new self status move that raises the main stats for a third of the users HP. This move is a little underwhelming on a mon that is already 2HKO'd by Belly Drum and Sub, but nonetheless it gives Kom a niche over the faster and better typed Darmanitan-Galar.
  • Substitute is everywhere, as its the main way to lose a solid chunk of HP while also granting immunities to dangerous moves like Heal Pulse and Trick.
  • Pokemon want to have the lowest stats possible to minimize the damage they give while maximizing the damage they take.
  • The exception to this is when a Pokemon's lowest HP is not divisible by 4, as most sets need to be divisible by 4 to take the most from Substitute and be in range of Steel Beam / Belly Drum 2HKOs.
  • Shadow Tag is legal, making the Goth family great for trapping opponents and possibly ending games thanks to Trick and items like Pecha Berry removing the main forms of losing health from Black Sludge or Toxic Orb.
  • Prankster users have the fastest Taunts and Imprisons in the game, but have to worry about the many Dark types immune to them.
  • Belly Drum into Substitute with Black Sludge is a 2HKO, and is checked by faster Taunt / Imprison users. Belly Drum and Steel Beam users need to have their HP stat divisible by 8 for the 2HKO, as this allows Black Sludge damage to an integer. For example, Charizard could have 6 HP IVs to be at 272 HP and guarantee the Belly Drum into Sub KO.
  • Snore is often ran on Pokemon that lack a better 4th move as it can be pressed when taunted with no fear of actually damaging the opponent.
Council:
Ho3nConfirm3d
We Wuz Nidokangz
NOC Unlucky 13
SBPC

Discord: https://discord.gg/bmTunPt
 
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Sample Teams:
(click on sprites for pokepaste)

Court Change Abuse:
:cinderace: :dugtrio: :charizard: :darmanitan-galar: :weavile: :snom:
by Ho3nConfirm3d
Court Change offers a ton of new versatility to Suicide Cup, as it creates a whole new meta around setting up rocks, switching them, having mons weak to rocks, and the ways to check this strategy. There is a risk involved at the beginning, as you risk the opponent capitalizing with rocks on their side of the field with the option for them to sack their own Charizards or Darmanitans. Still, it can be highly rewarding if set up correctly.

Cinderace is of course needed as its the only Court Change user, but its high base speed of 119 and its own access to Taunt means there are only a few mons that can stop Cinderace from getting off a Court Change. This is made easier by Dugtrio, as with Arena Trap it can trap a mon like Ralts or Goth, and after setting up SR can switch right into Cinderace for a quick Court Change. Charizard and Darmanitan-Galar-Zen are both fast BD users that only need a BD to be in range of a SR 1HKO, making them have perfect synergy on this team. Weavile is needed as its a fast Taunt user that is immune to Prankster, allowing it to check Impidimp or Cottonee that could Taunt Dug or Cinderace. It's also weak to SR and SB, which makes it valuable in its own right. Snom is the final mon for the team and covers the SB 1HKO against Bronz and any SB user, while also being x4 weak to SR. Snom should be played as an early sack and check to SB, or saved for the late game SR sacks, as its movepool and low speed make it unable to do much else than Substitute.

Sticky Web Trap:
:ribombee: :Gothitelle: :Linoone-Galar: :Charizard: :Bronzor: :Hawlucha:
by Ho3nConfirm3d
With Choice Scarf being banned, speed is generally pretty consistent and limiting. One way to buff speed is Sticky Web, which allows Pokemon like Gothitelle and Charizard to move first on mons that are now slower like Cinderace or Rapidash-Galar. Moving first prevents opposing Taunts, Imprisons, and Substitutes from getting in the way of this team pulling off its strategies.

Ribombee is a good webber for its high speed, Imprison, and its SR and SB weaknesses. It can also use and block Baton Pass, making the transition into Goth easier. Goth enjoys the speed buff as it can now trap and move first on many more targets, which allows it to Trick its Pecha Berry on to them. This item removes the targets Black Sludge or Toxic Orb item while also curing them of their Poison, which to most Pokemon mean they are unable to KO themselves. There are exceptions, including Steel Beam users, which makes this strategy risky; riskier even as Goth itself is 100% dependent on trapping and getting a detrimental item for it to be KO'd. Linoon-Galar is a good Prankster check with the fastest Taunt in the game once boosted by Quick Feet, and can pivot into Goth and others with Parting Shot. Charizard enjoys the speed buff as it can get off its Belly Drum without fear of Weavile using Taunt on it. Bronzor is a Steal Beam user that can get rid of itself quickly, and also has the utility of providing Sandstorm if Goth fails to get a Trick off, which can be the final chip damage needed for Goth to go down. Hawlucha is a final fast Taunt / Encore user that can Defog against Court Change teams and be the final Baton Pass user for switching into Goth.

Viability Rankings:

S rank:

:accelgor: Accelgor
:cinderace: Cinderace

A+ rank:
:bronzor: Bronzor
:charizard: Charizard
:darmanitan-galar: Darmanitan-Galar
:dugtrio: Dugtrio
:gothitelle: Gothitelle family
:sableye: Sableye
:weavile: Weavile

A rank:
:hawlucha: Hawlucha
:hatterene: Hatterene
:linoone-galar: Linoon-Galar
:noivern: Noivern
:pawniard: Pawniard
:rapidash-galar: Rapidash-Galar
:ribombee: Ribombee
:togedemaru: Togedemaru

A- rank:
:durant: Durant
:ferroseed: Ferroseed
:honedge: Honedge
:gardevoir: Gardevoir family
:impidimp: Impidimp
:salazzle: Salazzle
:silvally: Silvally
:whimsicott: Whimsicott family
:xatu: Xatu

B+ rank:
:corviknight: Corviknight
:cutiefly: Cutiefly
:espeon: Espeon
:froslass: Froslass
:gengar: Gengar
:indeedee: Indeedee-F
:sigilyph: Sigilyph

B rank:
:dragapult: Dragapult family
:Liepard: Liepard
:mew: Mew
:mamoswine: Mamoswine
:mr.-mime-galar: Mr. Mime-Galar
:snom: Snom
:trubbish: Trubbish
:weezing-galar: Weezing-Galar
:wimpod: Wimpod

B- rank:
:butterfree: Butterfree
:ditto: Ditto
:frosmoth: Frosmoth
:ninetales: Ninetales
:ninjask: Ninjask
:swoobat: Swoobat
:vanilluxe: Vanilluxe

C+ rank:
:dwebble: Dwebble
:gastly: Gastly
:toxicroak: Toxicroak

C rank:
:clefable: Clefable family
:cursola: Cursola
:darumaka-galar: Darumaka-Galar
:pichu: Pichu

C- rank:
:lapras: Lapras
:mawile: Mawile
:heliolisk: Heliolisk
 
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Role Comp:
Below is the role comp of viable mons in the Suicide Cup meta, and of which the VR derives from.
Click on the names / sprites for the pokepaste of the set with a description of what it does.
Not every legal user is listed, as they likely are too outclassed to even be worth mentioning on the VR. An example would be Pyukumuku, as even though it is a legal Taunt user, it is not mentioned it the role comp because it serves no niche at all with its counterintuitive abilities, high bulk, low speed, bad typing and more.

These are the in game mechanics that are available and viable to do damage and KO your own Pokemon:

Items:
Black Sludge
Toxic Orb
Sticky Barb

Abilities:
Solar Power
Dry Skin
Snow Warning
Sand Stream

Hazards:
Stealth Rock
Spikes
Toxic Spikes

Moves:
Belly Drum
Steel Beam
Curse (on Ghosts)
Clangourus Soul
Substitute
Sandstorm
Hail
Struggle
Belch (as a single move without berry)

These are the in game mechanics that are available and viable to prevent the opponent from KOing their Pokemon:

Items:
Pecha Berry
Choice Specs
Choice Band
Mental Herb

Abilities:
Prankster
Wonder Skin
Magic Bounce
Sticky Hold
Neutralizing Gas
Wimp Out
Psychic Terrain
Oblivious

Moves:
Taunt
Imprison
Encore
Whirlwind
Roar
Trick
Switcheroo
Defog
Heal Pulse
Snore
Attract
Thunder Wave
Nuzzle
Sleep Powder
Tailwind
Skill Swap
Copy Cat
Court Change
Protect
Disable
Baton Pass
Parting Shot

Court Change Users:
:cinderace: Cinderace

Stealth Rock:
:dugtrio: Dugtrio
:mew: Mew
:mamoswine: Mamoswine
:pawniard: Pawniard
:bronzor: Bronzor
:ferroseed: Ferroseed
:swinub: Swinub
:dwebble: Dwebble

x4 Stealth Rock Weakness:
:ninjask: Ninjask
:butterfree: Butterfree
:snom: Snom
:darmanitan-galar-zen: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen
:charizard: Charizard
:frosmoth: Frosmoth

Wimpout:
:wimpod: Wimpod

Defog:
:frosmoth: Frosmoth
:corviknight: Corviknight
:hawlucha: Hawlucha
:noivern: Noivern
:weezing-galar: Weezing-Galar

By Speed:
:durant: Durant
:togedemaru: Togedemaru
:silvally: Silvally
:corviknight: Corviknight
:pawniard: Pawniard
:bronzor: Bronzor
:ferroseed: Ferroseed
:honedge: Honedge

Steel Beam 1HKOs (using Bronzor as the standard):
:snom: Snom
:dwebble: Dwebble
:swinub: Swinub
:darumaka-galar: Darumaka-Galar
:ralts: Ralts
:cutiefly: Cutiefly
:impidimp: Impidimp

Prankster:
:whimsicott: Whimsicott
:sableye: Sableye
:impidimp: Impidimp
:cottonee: Cottonee

By Speed:
:linoone-galar: Linoon-Galar (Poisoned)
:darmanitan-galar-zen: Darmanitan-Galar-Zen
:weavile: Weavile
:noivern: Noivern
:cinderace: Cinderace
:hawlucha: Hawlucha
:salazzle: Salazzle
:swoobat: Swoobat
:gengar: Gengar
:froslass: Froslass
:linoone-galar: Linoon-Galar
:mew: Mew
:darmanitan-galar: Darmanitan-Galar
:kommo-o: Kommo-o
:toxicroak: Toxicroak
:gardevoir: Gardevoir
:vanilluxe: Vanilluxe
:corviknight: Corviknight
:gothitelle: Gothitelle
:pawniard: Pawniard
:croagunk: Croagunk
:darumaka-galar: Darumaka-Galar
:ralts: Ralts

By Speed:
:charizard: Charizard
:darmanitan-galar: Darmanitan-Galar
:kommo-o: Kommo-o
:darumaka-galar: Darumaka-Galar

By Speed:
:rapidash-galar: Rapidash-Galar
:indeedee: Indeedee-F
:gardevoir: Gardevoir
:gothitelle: Gothitelle
:ralts: Ralts
:hatenna: Hatenna
:hatterene: Hatterene

By Speed:
:espeon: Espeon
:xatu: Xatu
:hatenna: Hatenna
:hatterene: Hatterene

Wonder Skin:
:sigilyph: Sigilyph

Prankster:
:sableye: Sableye

By Speed:
:ribombee: Ribombee
:swoobat: Swoobat
:gengar: Gengar
:froslass: Froslass
:rapidash-galar: Rapidash-Galar
:ninetales: Ninetales
:mew: Mew
:sigilyph: Sigilyph
:xatu: Xatu
:silvally: Silvally
:indeedee: Indeedee-F
:cutiefly: Cutiefly
:gardevoir: Gardevoir
:vanilluxe: Vanilluxe
:gothitelle: Gothitelle
:frosmoth: Frosmoth
:ralts: Ralts
:hatenna: Hatenna
:hatterene: Hatterene
:bronzor: Bronzor

Whirlwind / Roar:
:noivern: Noivern
:ninetales: Ninetales
:sigilyph: Sigilyph
:butterfree: Butterfree

By Speed:
:dragapult: Dragapult
:gengar: Gengar
:dreepy: Dreepy
:gastly: Gastly

Imposter:
:ditto: Ditto

Sticky Web:
:ribombee: Ribombee
:cutiefly: Cutiefly

Weather / Terrain Setters:
:ninetales: Ninetales
:vanilluxe: Vanilluxe
:indeedee: Indeedee-F

Dry Skin:
:heliolisk: Heliolisk
:toxicroak: Toxicroak
:croagunk: Croagunk

Belch Struggle:
:trubbish: Trubbish
 
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Just another team for people who want a place to start, its not great but it should be able to get you started.

So, just a couple Pokemon outside of the sample set that I want to talk about.


Sigilyph seems way too bulky for SC at first glance, but it does have some interesting tricks up its sleeve. For instance, while its best ability is banned, it has Wonder Skin, one of those abilities that can cheese out wins way more often than it should. In addition, it has an interesting combination of Trick+Imprison, something not every Pokemon can boast. The last thing I want to bring up is that it's the only Pokemon that has access to both of those moves and any phazing, meaning that it can get rid of Subs while preventing them from coming back, making its Tricks very hard to block. It also is faster than you might expect, with a neat speed tier of 97, allowing it to outspeed Darmanitan. The only real issue with Sigilyph is that it has a horrible, and I mean horrible, matchup against Trick Goths, being Taunt fodder against it while being unable to swap out.


Galarian Rapidash is one of those Pokemon I highly underestimated when I first saw it, partly because it has no good abilities; I only run Run Away because its easy to give. That said, it is the fastest Pokemon with access to both Heal Pulse and Imprison. It's speed allows it to outspeed tons of high impact Pokemon, like Charizard, Darmanitan, and every single Steel Beam user but Durant. Speaking of Steel Beam, its generally 2HKOed by Bronzor+Black Sludge, meaning its generally a good check to Steel Beam. Oh, and if you thought you could deal with it via trapping, not only is it faster than every single trapper bar dugtrio, it also has Baton Pass to let it escape. Seriously, this thing is really good, probably the best Healer the meta!


Seriously surprised this thing isn't in the sample sets. While it lost Snatch in Dexit, it still has Oblivious, which still makes it immune to all Taunts, even if the Taunter in question has Mold Breaker, and it still has access to all of Taunt, Disable and Encore. It still has a very good speed tier of 117 (though it matters a lot less with Cinderace being 119.) It also still has Knock Off, which has its uses. It still has a Rock weakness, which matters a lot more this gen. Just look at this thing's movepool, its insane. Only thing to remember is that you NEED to run Sticky Barb on this, else its really obnoxious to KO.


How was this not in the sample sets? It's the fastest Defogger in the meta, and its the second fastest non-prankster Taunters in the game. As if this wasn't enough to secure a spot in the meta, it also has Switcheroo to add more depth to its game, meaning you can't just easily check it with Magic Bounce. In addition, it has access to Whirlwind (neat utility) and Tailwind. It also has a Stealth Rock weakness, just like Weaville and Hawlucha. Flying type also means it can escape from Dugtrio if you somehow get into a hairy situation against it.


Honestly, the matches I've played this gen are even better than last gen. We will all miss Snatch, but I feel like pretty much every other change has positively impacted SC. Gothitelle no longer having Magic Coat makes it so much more manageable than before, and Smeargle not forcing you to build only 5 mons is absolutely appreciated. We might need to keep an eye out for Dugtrio+Cinderace teams, but that seriously seems to be it.
 
Focusing on new stuff here.

Impidimp seems pretty good, it has Prankster and a few good status moves to disrupt the foe, low stats and Fairy typing let it get killed off by Steel Beam pretty easily.
0- SpA Bronzor Steel Beam vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Impidimp: 186-222 (93 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Hatenna seems like another very nice mon, Magic Bounce lets it reflect Heal Pulses and more. It also gets Heal Pulse itself, along with Baton Pass, Imprison, and a couple other cool things.

Mew gets Imprison now and can pair it up with anything in its large movepool, but the most interesting to me is Transform. You can copy your opponent and force them to struggle while also potentially limiting their counterplay if they switch out, or you can trap them with Block as well, pretty fun. Probably too gimmicky though.

Perish Body is a wacky ability. If you can force your opponent to use a physical attack or Struggle you can switch in, phaze them with Red Card and get your Perish Song active. If all else fails you can self-KO with Curse. The main issue is not getting phazed out yourself, Cursola doesn't really have anything to stop opposing phazers. Also quite gimmicky.

You can use Xatu too. They get Imprison, and also Baton Pass is now legal with Magic Bounce. Although slower than Espeon, Espeon doesn't get Imprison or Thunder Wave.

Seems like there's a lot of fun new things to play around with this gen.
 
Unintuitively given that Dynamax grants double the HP and increased-power attacks, it turns out that Dynamax actually has a useful role in this metagame. Its main uses are to conjure up Max Guards (i.e. buffed Protects) and break out of Taunt/Encore (I had last-mon Silvally win a 1-vs-1 against last-mon Hawlucha this way), although I've also seen the Max Starfall Misty Terrain tactic. (Incidentally, Snom gets Fairy Wind, bad Special Attack, and a junky movepool, so I guess it can conjure Misty Terrain in Court Change teams if it wants.)

Another pro of the Xatu line is that Dugtrio can't Arena Trap them and get Stealth Rock on its own side for free by abusing their Magic Bounce.
 
Update: Role Comp is out!

The role comp is currently the third post in this thread, and should give a good idea of the spectrum of viability is here in Suicide Cup. Click on the spoiler to see the whole range of the suggested mechanic, like with Court Change to see viable SR users, and Steel Beam to see common 1HKO switch ins. A VR will come out likely soon, as everything in the role comp still needs to be tested to give an educated guess of their early viability. Past that, we are looking for more sample teams if anyone would like to submit anything!
 
Unintuitively given that Dynamax grants double the HP and increased-power attacks, it turns out that Dynamax actually has a useful role in this metagame. Its main uses are to conjure up Max Guards (i.e. buffed Protects) and break out of Taunt/Encore (I had last-mon Silvally win a 1-vs-1 against last-mon Hawlucha this way), although I've also seen the Max Starfall Misty Terrain tactic. (Incidentally, Snom gets Fairy Wind, bad Special Attack, and a junky movepool, so I guess it can conjure Misty Terrain in Court Change teams if it wants.)

Another pro of the Xatu line is that Dugtrio can't Arena Trap them and get Stealth Rock on its own side for free by abusing their Magic Bounce.
Dynamax in Suicide Cup does have this unique niche of being able to provide Protect through Max Guard, meaning everything kind of has a 5th move prior to popping your Dyna. There are a ton of downsides to this tho, as Max Guard does fail in succession, and as Dyna last three turns you are locked into just Max Guard. Not a good look, and only has some of the most niche utility.

When it comes to Max Starfall, the Fairy type max move, it can be a high risk attack with little reward. Again, you would be going for a moderate to high base powered attack for the Misty Terrain effect, which isn't even that useful when its so inconsistent and expendable. Yes, a low special attacking mon like Snom does get Fairy Wind and can afford it as a last move, but it is at the high risk of damaging or even 1HKOing the many Dark types or already low special defensive mons in the meta thanks to Suicide Cup. And the reward, delaying the opponents Toxic Orb mons, is again very situational and some teams and playstyles may not even have a Toxic Orb mon / could have already gotten them the Toxic earlier in the match.

So yes, Dyna may have a minute amount of viability in Suicide Cup, but likely will go never used most games (and will not be worth banning / suspecting).

Curious why the Role Comp doesn't mention Perish Song at all. Is it just because all its currently available users have viability issues?
This was something I was hoping someone would catch, as it was deliberate. I'm not sure if Perish Song will be viable or not, as previously it was Perish Song + Baton pass that was worthwile. Right now, the fully evolved Perish Song users are Gengar, Lapras, and Cursola, and only Gengar has some obvious viability thanks to its speed and movepool. It very well could be that all three of these mons deserve their own sets and VR ranking, but I would need to do some more testing to see what niche they have, and I would love others to do the same.


Has anyone with a game been able to confirm if steel beam is not blocked by damp? It doesn’t sound like it would be but we need to make sure, as it would have huge implications for how we counter the strategy.
In Showdown right now, Steel Beam is not triggered by Damp. I currently have found no resources online that describe any relationship between the two, but haven't tested it in game myself yet. I will come around and edit this post (and possibly the role comp) if this becomes true.
 
The Belch + 3 blank moveslots combo is still legal, causing anything that's capable of learning Belch (Salazzle is the fastest option) to be able to go to immediate Struggle and force a 4-turn clock on itself (barring stuff like Heal Pulse) without needing to hold Assault Vest. Further, after Home opens up, it should be possible to achieve the same effect by having a moveset of nothing but snapped moves (for example, a Shuckle with Constrict/Return/Frustration/Hidden Power), and in fact that version of the set is superior since it can't be spoiled by having the opponent fling a Petaya or other berry at you.
 
The Belch + 3 blank moveslots combo is still legal, causing anything that's capable of learning Belch (Salazzle is the fastest option) to be able to go to immediate Struggle and force a 4-turn clock on itself (barring stuff like Heal Pulse) without needing to hold Assault Vest. Further, after Home opens up, it should be possible to achieve the same effect by having a moveset of nothing but snapped moves (for example, a Shuckle with Constrict/Return/Frustration/Hidden Power), and in fact that version of the set is superior since it can't be spoiled by having the opponent fling a Petaya or other berry at you.
Would it be worthwhile to ban all snapped moves because of being able to run four in a set?
Right now the only auto-Struggle mon the role comp includes is Trubbish, largely because there aren't better Belch users (or possible 4 illegal move users). This is largely because Trubbish has a low BST and weak Atk for the lowest Struggle damage, but also because it has a great ability that Auto-Struggle mons want in Sticky Hold.

Going foward, I see no merit in banning the moves that lead to Auto-Struggle like the Belch users, as it likely will continue to be not that viable of a strategy. Auto-Struggle has a ton of downsides, including be vulnerable to Trick and Heal Pulse with no opportunity to Taunt or Sub to prevent it. It can also be easy for the opponent to bring in low defensive mons like Snom or Cutiefly and even the weakest Struggle users can take chunks off these already established mons. And even at its best, Auto-Struggle is only a 3HKO, where other strats like Belly Drum, Steel Beam, and x4 SR weaknesses are quicker at 2HKOs.

Auto-Struggle has a ton of downsides, and even though mons like Trubbish can have an ability to get rid of one of their weaknesses, it still likely won't be at the top of the meta. If Home brings more users of this tech, then thats great for fleshing out the role comp further, but I would have to say that these mons compete heavily with the already established sets and playstyles.
 

SBPC

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I'd like to argue that Court Change is an overcentralizing move and should be suspected/banned in Suicide Cup. A large portion of this being not argued comes from the move's exclusivity being locked to explicitly Cinderace, but that doesn't stop entire teams being based around it, and forcing the entire metagame to prepare for hazards in unconventional ways. After Court Change has been executed, or stopped via a faster taunt lead to stop the opposing team from rocking, most teams will have at least 2-3 members that are partially hazard weak, or if specifically prepped to abuse it, mons that are 4x weak such as Charizard, Snom, Ninjask, and Frosmoth, while even being able to use mons like Wimpod's Wimp Out to take stealth rock damage and pivot into other rock weak pokemon. With this in mind, Court Change has some forms of basic counterplay, such as packing your own court change, or fast defoggers such as Hawlucha and Noivern. While these may seem effective, Taunt is incredibly common in this metagame, and while noivern is the fastest taunt abuser in this meta, it means shutting down defog is far easier than trying to get one off. In addition to so, using Court Change to counter enemy Court Change isn't exactly healthy for a metagame.

Here are some replays of rocks being up for minimal time, and the players benefitting extravagantly off of them.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8anythinggoes-1027260750
This replay showcases some Cinderace on Cinderace action, with my Cinderace getting a taunt into change off, and getting 3 members of my team to go down super quick.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8anythinggoes-1027262958
While the Cinderace user got haxxed at the end of this game, the fact that this player was in an almost guaranteed losing position and was almost able to immediately reverse it off of one move showcases why this move is unhealthy.
 
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I'd like to argue that Court Change is an overcentralizing move and should be suspected/banned in Suicide Cup. A large portion of this being not argued comes from the move's exclusivity being locked to explicitly Cinderace, but that doesn't stop entire teams being based around it, and forcing the entire metagame to prepare for hazards in unconventional ways. After Court Change has been executed, or stopped via a faster taunt lead to stop the opposing team from rocking, most teams will have at least 2-3 members that are partially hazard weak, or if specifically prepped to abuse it, mons that are 4x weak such as Charizard, Snom, Ninjask, and Frosmoth, while even being able to use mons like Wimpod's Wimp Out to take stealth rock damage and pivot into other rock weak pokemon. With this in mind, Court Change has some forms of basic counterplay, such as packing your own court change, or fast defoggers such as Hawlucha and Noivern. While these may seem effective, Taunt is incredibly common in this metagame, and while noivern is the fastest taunt abuser in this meta, it means shutting down defog is far easier than trying to get one off. In addition to so, using Court Change to counter enemy Court Change isn't exactly healthy for a metagame.

Here are some replays of rocks being up for minimal time, and the players benefitting extravagantly off of them.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8anythinggoes-1027260750
This replay showcases some Cinderace on Cinderace action, with my Cinderace getting a taunt into change off, and getting 3 members of my team to go down super quick.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8anythinggoes-1027262958
While the Cinderace user got haxxed at the end of this game, the fact that this player was in an almost guaranteed losing position and was almost able to immediately reverse it off of one move showcases why this move is unhealthy.
Court Change no doubt has proven itself to be one of the most centralizing playstyles of early gen8 Suicide Cup, and any unprepared teams can be snowballed quick if they do not have anything for it. As far as being banworthy, I believe it is too early to tell for certain, and the problem with banning CC is that it makes such of the meta viable as options to fit on CC teams or as options to check CC.

The biggest checks to CC are the mons that have a naturally faster Taunt on Cinderace (Sab, Weavile, Noiv, Imp, Cottonee / Whims) to totally shut down Cinderace, but even slower Taunt users can catch Cinderace on the switch in. The huge issue with CC is that once SR is set, there can be a tricky and dangerous transition, and until then the opponent can capitalize. Take this game here as an example where the CC team is unable to get a CC off early while the opposing team keeps up faster Taunts and sacks their Charizard all the while. This was a Webs MU which CC teams are no doubt weak to, but another example is here with Tailwind + Teleport support and having multiple Defog users in Hawlucha and Wheezing. Lastly, even without multiple conditions, a mon like Sableye can be a big problem for CC teams as seen here.

I do respect the sentiment and no doubt CC is on the watchlist, as it SB for that matter. We'll just have to wait and see, as for what it looks like now. There are ways around it and a few mons that straight up counter it like Noiv and Sab, while small inclusions like having Ice types or Charizard will be helpful as well and are already good mons for the meta.

Quick Announcement I'm adding in this post:

The VR is up! This is the first rendition of the VR based off weeks of playing and fleshing out the early Suicide Cup meta. It should give you a good idea of what works and what doesn't. A big change is that for some Belly Drum / Steel Beam mons like Charizard and Corv had their HP updated for their sets, as previously they did not have the right HP for a 2HKO. Also, some mons and sets may still need an analysis, and the role comp will have an update as well sometimes this weekend.

Feel free to discuss any nominations, sets, court change / steel beam feelings, or teams that you have!
 
Are you tired of using Court Change style teams, but want to be able to beat them handily? Do you want a team that can give pretty much every team around a massive headache? Well, I've got just the team for you: Trick Room! You may think that Trick Room is hard to setup with all the fast Taunts running around, but that's because you haven't tried a very particular Pokemon that is one of 3 Pokemon to get Magic Coat, Munna! Munna is the slowest AND frailest Pokemon that learns Magic Coat, and since it gets Trick Room, you can mix up the setup, often times being able to pull it off for free, and even putting your opponent in an awkward position, having to switch out of a failed Taunt. Seriously, Munna is not something to take lightly.


Link to the pokepaste

The teambuilding process started when I was looking through the Pokemon that get Magic Coat. When I realized that Munna got it and Trick Room and was the slowest Pokemon with both, I just began building this. Gothitelle followed it up, being a nasty setter that also has Heal Pulse and Shadow Tag. Natu was added because I wanted a Trick Room setter that was immune to Arena Trap and had Magic Bounce, and its the slowest Pokemon with all of those traits. Frosmoth is there for a slower Defog, further improving the match up against Court Change teams, giving me an easy swap to Cinderace. Noivern was added for a similar reason, only in this case I wanted something faster, on the off chance Stealth Rock landed while Trick Room was inactive. Originally, I played Accelgor, but it just felt like it was kinda useless and just slowed the team down too much, so I replaced it with Ralts, which has Heal Pulse and Trick+Pecha, helping me to deal with Steel Beam spam a little better.

The biggest meta threat this team has is Prankster Dark types. If you see one while using this team, keep. Natu. Alive. I seriously can't understate how important Natu is against Pokemon like, say, Sableye. Ralts is completely incapable of doing anything to Sableye, and Munna can only come in after something faints, and these Pokemon can just spam Taunt, forcing you to switch basically every single turn. The basic game plan is to keep them from coming in for free, usually be spamming Taunt, although switching to Natu is probably your best play. If Natu faints before Sableye/Impidimp does, you have to switch Munna into them on pretty much every predicted switch. Oh, and if they are running Trick, you basically auto lose, since there's basically no way to KO Natu and Munna without Black Sludge. You could put on a Dark type to help soothe this weakness, but I don't know what you'd replace for it.

While Prankster Dark types are the most threatening Pokemon to deal with, the biggest threat to this team is Pokemon Home. Seriously, when Home comes out, way more Pokemon will have Magic Coat, making Munna's niche unnecessary. Basically, if you want to use Munna, you have until Home to do so.


Anyway, since there aren't many Pokemon with Magic Coat, I would like to talk a little bit about the second best user of it: Orbeetle. Like Munna, Orbeetle gets both Trick Room and Magic Coat. That said, Orbeetle has a lot more to offer than those two moves. It has exclusive access (for now...) to Sticky Web+Magic Coat, helping it get Webs off against faster taunts. Its Speed isn't the worst either, sitting at a solid base 90. It also is Bug, giving it a neat Rock weakness, comboing nicely with access to Baton Pass (what is it with new Pokemon and Baton Pass?). That said, it certainly isn't without faults. It's a very bulky Pokemon, sitting at 60/110/120, and has hella 4 moveslot syndrome. Yeah. its not going to be a must have in any capacity, though it might be neat on Court Change teams for speed control after you get Rocks up.
 
Another mechanics question that I can't test: Let's say you set up Ingrain and Baton Pass to Cinderace. If you use Court Change, does that switch the Ingrain to the opponent? I'm sure the answer is no, as I don't think that Ingrain is considered a field effect, but on the off-chance that it does, that would be a brutal way to stop or seriously slow down an opponent. Granted, it would take some time to set up, and the opposition will be able to see it coming and use that time to try to block it, but if pulled off correctly I could see it winning games. Again, probably not a thing, but it begs the question. Nvm no one learns this combo anyway.

Regarding other ways to slow the opponent through passive healing, I think Whimsicott could be a viable user of Grassy Terrain, since it has Prankster plus Taunt, Encore, Switcheroo, and Tailwind (and of course Substitute) and is weak to Steel Beam. Probably best with Toxic Orb, the damage of which would soon outpace the GT healing. It could also run a Terrain Extender and switch to levitating teammates like Charizard, Xatu, Bronzor, and Hawlucha--a strategy that is completely dependent on Whimsicott eventually Switcherooing its extender for a damaging item. Risky, but incredibly disrupting if pulled off.

As for Grassy Surge, I don't think Rillaboom is viable. I was able to have a lot of fun last gen by Perish Passing to Tapu Bulu, but now Perish Passing is gone, and even when Celebi is released (which will be much less consistent), the gorilla doesn't have Taunt+Roar to phaze opponents trying to take advantage of the Perish Song like Bulu did. Rillaboom does have Taunt, but that's it, and it's speed isn't super ideal for abusing it.

Overall, while it is undeniably fun to deny 2HKOs to things like BellyDarm and SB Durant, and to generally slow down things like Accelgor, Grassy Terrain is still a pretty gimmicky strategy, probably even moreso this gen. But since Whim has the other primary viable set, GT could at least surprise unexpecting foes, so I think its worth it to not forget the strategy completely.
 
Another mechanics question that I can't test: Let's say you set up Ingrain and Baton Pass to Cinderace. If you use Court Change, does that switch the Ingrain to the opponent? I'm sure the answer is no, as I don't think that Ingrain is considered a field effect, but on the off-chance that it does, that would be a brutal way to stop or seriously slow down an opponent. Granted, it would take some time to set up, and the opposition will be able to see it coming and use that time to try to block it, but if pulled off correctly I could see it winning games. Again, probably not a thing, but it begs the question. Nvm no one learns this combo anyway.
Actually, Bellossom gets this combo now.
 
Announcement: Suicide Cup Discord is up!
Link: https://discord.gg/bmTunPt

Feel free to join and discuss anything Suicide Cup related as we iron out the early gen8 meta.

Another mechanics question that I can't test: Let's say you set up Ingrain and Baton Pass to Cinderace. If you use Court Change, does that switch the Ingrain to the opponent? I'm sure the answer is no, as I don't think that Ingrain is considered a field effect, but on the off-chance that it does, that would be a brutal way to stop or seriously slow down an opponent. Granted, it would take some time to set up, and the opposition will be able to see it coming and use that time to try to block it, but if pulled off correctly I could see it winning games. Again, probably not a thing, but it begs the question. Nvm no one learns this combo anyway.

Regarding other ways to slow the opponent through passive healing, I think Whimsicott could be a viable user of Grassy Terrain, since it has Prankster plus Taunt, Encore, Switcheroo, and Tailwind (and of course Substitute) and is weak to Steel Beam. Probably best with Toxic Orb, the damage of which would soon outpace the GT healing. It could also run a Terrain Extender and switch to levitating teammates like Charizard, Xatu, Bronzor, and Hawlucha--a strategy that is completely dependent on Whimsicott eventually Switcherooing its extender for a damaging item. Risky, but incredibly disrupting if pulled off.

As for Grassy Surge, I don't think Rillaboom is viable. I was able to have a lot of fun last gen by Perish Passing to Tapu Bulu, but now Perish Passing is gone, and even when Celebi is released (which will be much less consistent), the gorilla doesn't have Taunt+Roar to phaze opponents trying to take advantage of the Perish Song like Bulu did. Rillaboom does have Taunt, but that's it, and it's speed isn't super ideal for abusing it.

Overall, while it is undeniably fun to deny 2HKOs to things like BellyDarm and SB Durant, and to generally slow down things like Accelgor, Grassy Terrain is still a pretty gimmicky strategy, probably even moreso this gen. But since Whim has the other primary viable set, GT could at least surprise unexpecting foes, so I think its worth it to not forget the strategy completely.
A quick test on your Court Change question shows that no, Court Change does not pass Ingrain. At least not on Showdown, although even if this worked in game, the strategy for having to running the slow and vulnerable Bellossom and passing into Cinderace just sounds too convoluted. Running any variation of TrickPecha, especially on Goth, is a much more viable and similar strategy.

Grassy Terrian has very few viable users as is and the negative of also effecting all of its users. Not to mention that some key SB / BD users like Bronzor, Charizard, and Corv are immune to it anyways. There's also more emphasis on Flying types in general now that they have an SR weakness and are immune to Arena Trap. So as far as I can see, I agree that it is totally a gimmick. It could be a consideration on something like Cottonee as late game it prevents grounded Black Sludge mons from KOing themselves if they have no other out, but that does mean that Cottonee absolutely would have to run Toxic Orb and then can't afford another 4th move like Protect or Stun Spore.
 
Announcement: Assault Vest, Misty Terrain, and Misty Surge unbanned from gen8 Suicide Cup
As Suicide Cup enters a new generation, there becomes more room for suspecting old bans and new mechanics. As for the old, some mechanics like the self 1HKO moves and abilities like Infiltrator and Magic Guard completely break the metagame or over centralize the ways sets can damage themselves. Thus, most of these bans are needed to foster a metagame with a variety of options for play, even if it means that Suicide Cup's banlist is relatively large. These three mechanics were unbanned to have a chance again in this new generation, as they were deemed to not be too oppressive.

Assault Vest:
AV doesn't offer in much of viability outside of Auto-Struggle sets. This allows any Pokemon to use Struggle while holding a AV and having a movepool of only status moves. Auto-Struggle already sees use with Pokemon like Trubbish and Belch without a berry, but it's not that great of a strategy. Without an item like Sticky Barb, AV users can only be 4HKO'd in normal circumstances. They're also completely vulnerable to Trick, Heal Pulse, and to low def Pokemon dying quicker than their Struggle recoil. While some Pokemon like Hatenna have abilities like Magic Bounce to circumvent some of the downsides, its ultimately not that great of a strategy, and even has the final noteworthy disadvantage of tacking half the damage from Steel Beam.

Misty Terrian / Misty Surge
The Misty Terrain effect initially comes off as limiting as it prevents Toxic Orb sets from getting their status on, and often these sets like Linoone-Galar and Sableye require Toxic Orb to KO themselves. However, both the move and the ability have limited users and ultimately compete with much better options. Pokemon like Rapidash-Galar and Gardevoir would much rather have moves like Baton Pass or Encore as their 4th moves, as there's just more use in the relevant meta for them than Misty Terrain. Cottonee might have use for it, but even then that can compete with teambuilding and prevent the user from running Toxic Orb mons. As for Misty Surge, only Weezing-Galar has it, and Weezing may rather have Neutralizing Gas anyways. This is because Neutralizing Gas gives it multiple niches in being immune to trapping (notable as Weezing is slower than Goth and can be Tricked by it otherwise), Taunting past Magic Guard and Oblivous users, and even outspeeding and Taunting Prankster users like Sableye and Cottonee. These factors along with the popularity of Black Sludge over Toxic Orb in most cases anyways gives room for having Misty Terrian being legal. It might find a niche as way to get an edge on some match ups, but with its short amount turns and limitation in that Toxic Orb mons may already get off their Toxic before terrain is up all makes the effect seemingly nonthreatening.

Let us know how you feel about the unbans! It's worth noting that the threatlist for potential bans or suspects includes Trick / Switcheroo, Court Change, Steel Beam, and Shadow Tag.
 
Pokemon Home dropped, Silvally got Defog back, Liepard got Prankster back, Magic Coat's distribution skyrocketed, and here are some Suicide Cup sets that have come out to play:

:zeraora:
Zeraora @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave
- Protect / Snore

The new fastest Taunter in town that doesn't need an ability to get the speed jump on things. Thunder Wave can create clutch wins as long as you use it before they Toxic themselves. I'd suggest Knock Off, but Zeraora's Attack is dangerously high.

:mewtwo:
Mewtwo @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Heal Pulse
- Substitute
- Snore / Magic Coat / Disable

Your friend Mewtwo from Gen 7 Suicide Cup, now the proud owner of the fastest Heal Pulse in the meta. Outspeeds most Steel Beam users, but not this one...

:zacian:
Zacian @ Black Sludge
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 2 HP / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Steel Beam
- Substitute
- Imprison
- Protect

The actual fastest user of Steel Beam and Imprison in the meta that doesn't get STAB on Steel Beam. Its/her Special Attack is lower than Silvally's to boot. Shame its/her movepool is so barren that Protect is the 4th move. The HP IVs go for the Sub-Beam self-2HKO. Zacian must have 3 perfect IVs, so I stuck them on Attack, Defense, and Speed. Zamazenta can pull off similar stuff, but that guy resists Stealth Rock and isn't weak to Steel Beam, and its/his Dauntless Shield gets in the way of getting KOd by opposing Struggle.

:cobalion:
Cobalion @ Black Sludge
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 4 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Steel Beam
- Substitute
- Roar / Thunder Wave / Sandstorm

The new fastest user of Taunt and Steel Beam in town. Shame about that high Special Attack and that Steel STAB, though. HP IVs are again for that Sub-Beam self-2HKO. Roar and Thunder Wave disrupt Imprison Steel Beam users. Cobalion gets a better movepool than Zacian and Zamazenta, that's one thing for sure.

:vulpix-alola:
Vulpix-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Encore
- Roar
- Substitute
- Heal Bell / Disable / Protect / Hypnosis

Your new Steel Beam fodder, everyone. Snow Warning helps mons KO themselves faster. Black Sludge increases the number of Steel Beams that OHKO it. Heal Bell can remove paralysis (and, whoops, poison) from your team. Maybe EVing/IVing its HP so it gets 3HKOd by Stealth Rock and sitting in play for 2 turns is worthwhile, but do you lose any Steel Beam OHKOs in the process?
Forgot this isn't Ice/Fairy, so Vulpix-Alola loses its niche.
 
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Suicide Cup: Home Update:

Pokemon Home introduces a ton of new mechanics that shakes up the Suicide Cup meta. Below are a list of the major ones, along with my opinions / bias.

Celebi: The PerishPassing niche is back, with Celebi being the sole user. It completes this strat with Magic Coat, which can prevent it from being hit by Taunt or Heal Pulse. However, the slow 3HKO from Perish Song and Celebi’s huge BST might prove to be a hinderance.

Cobalion: Fast SB and Taunt; comes at the price of a high BST.

Decidueye: A Ghost-typing with Curse, Imprison, Defog, and Baton Pass. Likely outclassed, but has a few roles that can be compressed for it.

Dugtrio-Alola: Fast and weak Steel Beam, but nothing much else and likely not worth it.

Incineroar: Roar/Taunt/Parting Shot on a Fire/Dark type makes it weak to SR and immune to Prankster. Could be useful for phazing out Imprison Sableye while not being trapped itself thanks to pshot.

Linoone: Tied for the fastest BD user, but lacks a movepool past that.

Mewtoo: Arguably the most viable of the new mons, Mewtwo is super fast with a great movepool. Heal Pulse/Taunt/Imprison/Magic Coat are all great for its awesome speed. Only its huge bulk and Attack if hit by Taunt hinder it inherently, and it still has to watch out for Magic Bounce users.

Ninetails-Alola: Super weak to SB, while also having Encore and Imprison to bait out SB users when they use / try and use Substitute. This comes at a good speed and can bring Hail if you wish to have that support. Also, Lectrys, I do think that Vulpix still has a niche for how frail it is on the physical side for Struggle considerations, and it even takes marginally more damage from SB anyways.

Zeroara: Despite being the fastest Taunt user without modifiers, Zeroara lacks much of anything else to compete with other fast taunters like Weavile, Linoone-Galar, or Sableye.

Other new mons are likely too outclassed to be worth mentioning.

Magic Coat: :celebi: :clefable: :gothitelle: :mew: :mewtwo: :mr. mime-galar: :sableye: :silvally: :vanilluxe: - Some of the more plausible mons that got and would want to use this move again. Helps shut down faster Taunt and Heal Pulse users, whereas in the case of Imprison users like Sableye it can actually check itself!

Defog: :butterfree: :charizard: :cottonee: :cutiefly: :decidueye: :ninjask: :ribombee: :sigilyph: :silvally: :whimsicott: - With a ton more viable Defog users out there, Court Change totally took a nerf. Fitting one of these or two even can be very helpful counter play to this strat, and it sometimes isn't even at the cost of a better move.

Prankster / Steel Beam: :liepard: :zacian: - Liepard regained Prankster, making it another good Dark-type Prakster user with a fast Taunt, Encore, and even priority Copycat can be exploited. Zaician is just now observed to have SB, which is either an oversight on my end or something new Home added. Regardless, its the fastest SB user and also has a fast Imprison to work with. Its got a huge BST of course but its SpA isn't outlandish when there's no STAB to factor in.

As pileosand pointed out above, by having only unusable moves from prior generations a Pokemon is forced to Stuggle. This method, along with Mono-Belch and full status Assault vest is another tactic known here as Auto-Struggle. There are advantages to it with the 3HKO from recoil and Black Sludge, something that Mono-Belch pulls off and Assault Vest can only do a 4HKO. It's "immune" to Taunt, and can punish Pokemon that stay behind Substitutes like Sabeleye or Accelgor. The negatives are that Struggle is still an attack, and even weak users can trade hits poorly with very frail sacks like Raltz and Snom. Any case that Struggle does more damage than the self recoil is a bad one, and that is the other problem with auto-Struggle is that there is no other counterplay for it. Users like Trubbish have to rely on their abilities like Sticky Hold so that they do not get trapped and Tricked by Goth, or Magic Bounce so that they don't get outstalled by Heal Pulse users.

All in all, auto-Struggle isn't that viable. There are already two methods to start it, but the "greyed-out move" method would make more users potentially viable. For example, Magic Bounce is good to prevent Heal Pulse like I mentioned earlier, but is limited to a Struggle 4HKO from Assualt Vest. With greyed-out moves, users like Espeon can then run Black Sludge and have the much more viable 3HKO option.

As of right now I don't believe the teambuilder caters to this. I'll have to do some digging around to see what I can do about it, if anything.

There's still a lot more to the new meta than what was added, like Rapidash-Galar taking a huge nerf with Mewtwo laregly replacing it besides the SB vulnerability. As always, feel free to PM me for a game if you see me on, and check out our discord for more discussion!
 
Ah, yes, bad gimmick time :pimp:


>tfw stuck with bro (Binacle) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 4 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Switcheroo
- Beat Up
- Infestation
- Taunt

Now possible thanks to Binacle getting Infestation back.
Short idea : Trap your foe, give them your cool helmet, and proceed to self-terminate by beating 'em up.
Long idea : Definitely not the most practical way to murder yourself, since you won't be getting two chances, unless you get a black sludge or sticky barb in the process and are okay with your death taking enough turns for the heat death of your opponent to happen. (on the plus side, some mons simply cannot die either if you steal their sludge, so that matchup is most likely yours)
That being said, since that thing is frail enough, it can work SB/struggle fodder. And i could see it perform not too horribly in Sticky Web/Trick Room teams. Also made me nearly consider Shell Smash 'til i remembered that it also increased offensive stats, which is most likely a horrible idea in this meta.
unless... ?
  • Does not make contact
Welp, here goes my dream.
 
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Ended up brainstorming some Gen 8 NatDex Suicide Cup sets if you're interested. I put my post in the NatDex Other Metas thread and quoted it here:

For you Suicide Cup fans out there, I figured that I may as well try to assemble some Gen 8 NatDex-only Suicide Cup sets that still have niches in the Gen 8 Suicide Cup meta. Warning: this list is long.

:smeargle:
Smeargle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Mind Blown
- Perish Song
- Whirlwind
- Baton Pass

Smeargle can use any moveset it wants (well, at least in Gen 7), and that's how it got to S rank in Gen 7. The PerishPasser set with Whirlwind and Mind Blown is my personal favourite for its sheer splashability, but Smeargle also uses Purify, Knock Off, Floral Healing, Spore, and all other kinds of moves well. Even if Smeargle can learn Steel Beam, Mind Blown is preferred for the lower numbers of Mind Blown fodder in the Gen 8 Suicide Cup meta.

:absol-mega:
Absol @ Absolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid / Hasty / Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Perish Song
- Baton Pass
- Taunt
- Snatch / Thunder Wave / Substitute

Celebi still feels like a terrible PerishPasser compared to this. This was one of the best PerishPassers in Gen 7 Suicide Cup because of its high speed and Magic Bounce, and this encouraged phazing moves on teams. Snatch provides a unique angle on disrupting Belly Drummers and some Steel Beamers by taking away their Belly Drums and Substitutes. PerishPassing may be more important in Gen 8 NatDex Suicide Cup, as Ditto is distinctly worse against the higher number of Imprison users in the Gen 8 meta.

:tapu fini:
Tapu Fini @ Black Sludge / Mago Berry
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def
- Taunt
- Heal Pulse
- Substitute
- Defog / Knock Off / Magic Coat / Trick

Misty Surge (and Misty Terrain) are unbanned in Gen 8 Suicide Cup, and with great shifts in the Gen 8 meta towards Black Sludge-loving Stealth Rock Court Change teams and Steel Beam Spam teams, these unbans are looking safe. Other than a neutrality to instead of a weakness to Steel Beam, Tapu Fini looks like a significantly better Misty Surge user than Weezing-Galar - a much higher speed tier and a better movepool are key. Use Timid with Knock Off and Mago Berry with Trick. Defog blows away Misty Terrain in Gen 8, but it's worth it against SR Court Change teams. Tapu Fini is forced to have at least 3 perfect IVs, so I put them on Speed, Special Attack, and Special Defence.

:slowpoke:
Slowpoke @ Black Sludge
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 56 HP
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Magic Coat / Heal Pulse
- Trick Room / Heal Pulse

One edge Oblivious Belly Drum Spam teams have over Steel Beam Spam teams is that Belly Drum doesn't injure the opponent. This Slowpoke is one example of an Oblivious Belly Drummer - another example is Walrein, who can Roar away Snatch users and opposing Belly Drummers. Magic Coat makes Encore and phazing users think twice. The HP EVs make Slowpoke's HP divisible by 8 so it can self-2HKO, and they also prevent the teambuilder from complaining. Use a Speed-boosting nature and actual Speed IVs and EVs if you're not using Trick Room.

:murkrow:
Murkrow @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Perish Song
- Whirlwind
- Defog / Substitute / Snatch / Tailwind / Thunder Wave

One of the best Prankster users that didn't survive Dexit, Murkrow is unique among Prankster users in that it can self-3HKO. Whirlwind ensures that the opponent cannot take advantage of Perish Song. Murkrow can still do plenty of Prankster-y things, but it's one of the only Prankster users who can Defog.

:comfey:
Comfey @ Toxic Orb / Pecha Berry / Mago Berry
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 1 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Floral Healing
- Substitute
- Magic Coat / Aromatherapy / Tailwind / Trick

Comfey has at least a theoretical niche as being able to heal opponents with a priority move (Floral Healing combined with Triage). Having only 100 base Speed hurts it, though, as many Steel Beam users can Sub before Comfey Taunts them, and Cobalion in particular outspeeds and Taunts it. Magic Coat can at least turn the tables on Cobalion and other faster Taunters, though. Use the berries with Trick. The Naive nature is to make it as good of a Steel Beam fodder as possible, and 1 HP IV lets it make Subs more easily.

:aerodactyl:
Aerodactyl @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spe
Naive / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Defog
- Substitute
- Whirlwind / Tailwind / Snore

Tied for fastest non-Mega Taunt and Defog user with Crobat and Tapu Koko, Aerodactyl distinguishes itself with weaknesses to Steel Beam and Stealth Rock.

:deoxys-speed:
Deoxys-Speed @ Toxic Orb / Pecha Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spe
Naive / Hasty / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Teleport
- Thunder Wave / Snatch / Knock Off / Trick

Deoxys-S is the fastest user of Taunt who doesn't need an ability to be that fast, and Teleport makes it a nifty disruptive pivot. The 4th slot just adds to the disruption. Use Timid with Knock Off and Pecha Berry with Trick.

:nosepass:
Nosepass @ Black Sludge
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Magic Coat
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave

Magnet Pull and Taunt make Nosepass a uniquely effective Steel Beam fodder. Non-Steel types with Steel Beam such as Zacian, Silvally, and Zamazenta can still switch out, though, and Steel Beam users with Magic Coat such as Jirachi, Silvally, and Klink can stymie Nosepass's efforts. Some weak Steel Beam users such as Bronzor and Togedemaru may not OHKO Nosepass. Magic Coat makes Nosepass better against fair teams and Steel Beam users with Taunt such as Cobalion and Pawniard.

:zoroark:
Zoroark @ Black Sludge
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty / Naive / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Imprison / Roar
- Roar / Snatch / Snore

People need to deal with SR Court Change mons and Steel Beam spammers in distinctive and predictable ways, so take advantage of this with Zoroark. Watch them lose tempo trying to Prankster Taunt this Dark-type, switching in their Steel Beam fodder while you Taunt them on the switch, or using anything but Substitute or Steel Beam after you Imprison while disguised as a Steel Beam user. Black Sludge and Substitute help it resemble a Steel Beam user.
I didn't mention them in the quote, but I believe Latias has a niche for being a Heal Pulse and Roar user who's immune to Sticky Web, and despite not being OHKOd by some Steel Beam users, Smoochum looks quite disruptive and hard-to-interrupt for Steel Beam fodder.
 

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