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I haven't used a charjabug myself, but I just want to say I don't think its stats are that bad for how long you're using it.
Like 57HP will taper off fast but it has 95/75 defenses and a solid 82 base attack. I've had several friends say it carry itself well both in terms of dealing damage & taking hits, though of course that's an anecdote of other anecdotes.
It's also better than crabrawler across the board aside from speed for what little that's worth.
Giratina93 Wishiwashi is definitely slow af, but I think you're overestimating the amount of out-of-battle support it requires?
If you buy a stack of discount Potions at the Thrifty Megamart, that'll basically cover keeping its tank filled for the rest of the game. The awful HP stat becomes bizarrely advantageous here; you can take on an entire route and just use one or two Potions from the big cheap stack in the process.
In exchange, you get offensive and defensive power that are frankly unreasonable.
idk, I'll grant that the way I play the games tends to make my parties EXP-poor, and that may cause me to overvalue mons that perform well in that environment. Which is definitely a fair description of Wishiwashi, given its ludicrous base stats and amazing experience curve.
I agree that Salandit should be a little lower due to the rarity of females and its frailty, but Dragon Rage doesn't stop being useful right after you get it. It 2HKOs almost everything you face for a little while after that.
Oh seeing Magikarp at high tier reminds me: You can get gyardos fairly easily but I'd like some confirmation on if i just got lucky or not
So literally the first thing I did was fish out a magikarp out of one of the bubbling fishing spots at brooklet hill. If you get one through that (which you probably will because the magikarp encounter rates are abusrd), it will SOS call for Gyarados of about the same level. I didn't even need an adreneline orb so i think it might be a high sos chance regardless. IF I was reading the SOS charts on serebii corretly, magikarp from bubbling spots will only call gyarados.
A bit of a hassle, I guess, since for MAXIMUM OPTIMIZATION you want an orb (which you get one free), thunder wave (to stop the SOS once you have the gyarados) and probably false swipe, but its posisble without and is it really any more of a hassle than just evolving a magikarp?
I agree that Salandit should be a little lower due to the rarity of females and its frailty, but Dragon Rage doesn't stop being useful right after you get it. It 2HKOs almost everything you face for a little while after that.
Except I've already mentioned how it suffers against Lurantis, Plumeria is a mixed bag you might not want to deal with, and Olivia is a no go regardless.Then you get to Island 3, and Hau splatters Salandit all over the floor, and from that point on, Dragon Rage fails to 2HKO what it really needs to 2HKO, and the fights just get worse and worse from there until you evolve.
this thing is a dong sandwich. you get it early but it sucks major ass for most of the game. it doesn't come with water attacks so you have to whittle the trainer w/ bonsly down until bonsly is at red hp and flails you to death. don't try yawning or cursing the bonsly either because that dude will just copypcat your yawn / curse. on the second island you get scald which is good for a hot second until you realize slowpoke still only has 45 base special attack and it moves slower than the notoriously slow alolan pokemon that are 5 levels below slowpoke. it's kind of tanky except it gets squishy quick later on as pokemon start evolving. it also evolves at level 37.
think of it this way: when you have a bewear, you're 10 levels away from getting a slowbro. when you finally get slowbro, you have access to a lot of nice TM's so it's pretty good, although it still has the problem of being slow as fuck so it's nothing exceptional. way too high effort for a pokemon that isn't even particularly strong. it's also garbage for basically every trial / kahuna aside from hala and the last dragon trial (it does like 10% to salazzle), both of which are incredibly easy.
like seriously just use staryu or wingull, they're way better than this thing.
Gabite should be Low or at least Low/Mid. It's an SOS battle summon which can takes ages to show up depending on how lucky you get. In the mean time you have Dugtrio attacking, Sandile swaggering and mud slapping... the easiest you can get it is by finding the 10% encounter rate Trapinch which will just crunch, dig, and earth power. There's also the constant Sandstorm which will wear down your Pokemon even faster. After a while, I resorted to using a Skarmory I had to sit down and stomach hits while I waited for Gabite.
After that though, you've still only got a Gabite. Bulldoze is your only STAB for now which is passable, but very underwhelming. Dual Chop and Dragon Claw by level up later on is nice though. Getting through the Gabite stage to get to Garchomp was an absolute pain and the thing was constantly fainting whole I trained it throughout Route 16 and Po Town. Its only saving grace is that Garchomp is very nice for the Elite 4. Swords Dance can clean out Olivia and Kahili. Lyranroc's SR turn makes the champion set up bait. Still, catching and raising it is extraordinarily inefficient and something I wouldn't recommend to anyone.
Also, Castform has very similar catching methods and is just terrible. I don't think anyone will oppose Castform for Bottom tier.
Beldum on the other hand I think should rise to Mid.] It's a 10% encounter rate which isn't the best, but unlike Gabite you don't need to wade through SOS nonsense to get it. The big problem with Beldum is that it's hard to catch, but there are a few factors that make catching it very possible:
You have access to the Thunder Wave TM by that point in the game.
If you picked Rowlet as your starter, by around this point in the game, you'll likely have Decidueyes. Decidueyes can False Swipe Beldum down to 1 HP and catch it without Beldum killing itself due to recoil. Other starters don't have this luxury, so a ghost type (gastly from the melemele graveyard) or something will be needed.
Timer Balls reach their maximum capture strength faster thanks to a change in their formula.
Once its caught and once it's gotten a single level from the EXP share, Metang is a team player from the moment it evolves. You have the Psychic TM by that point and even with Metangs lower Special Attack, it's excellent when you're a steal-type that walls most things and their coverage options. Metagross is obviously fantastic and creams some of the more troubling fairy-types in the game (Lusamine's Clefable). The only real thing preventing this from being on par with something like Magnemite is the catching part, really. I'm going to tag DTC if he wants to offer any input since I know he used one too.
Salandit does not deserve top tier. Salazzle is great. Salandit isn't. It can get the job done, but it's often too frail and not powerful enough. Finding a female is a little annoying as well. It's not striking home runs right off the bat like other top tiers, so I'd suggest moving it down to high.
I don't think it's Salandit's stats that keep it out of top, but I would say that the difficulty of getting a female is enough to keep it out of top, but no lower than high - I put in the effort to get a female Salandit and it & Wishiwashi helped me to steamroll through the game.
But on other Pokemon I used in-game (My final team was Toucannon/Salazzle/Raichu/Ninetales/Luranits/Wishiwashi):
Pichu to Mid or lower. As Alolan Raichu, it was pretty good. However, it necessitated using Pichu for a big chunk of the game, and Pichu is terrible. Pichu is too weak to take out anything, too frail to take hits from anything, and evolves by friendship, and even then, you're stuck with Pikachu (not much better) until you can get a Thunder Stone. If I did a second run, I don't even think I'd use this thing over Oricorio.
Vulpix - It's not a very common encounter, not that powerful, and obtained late in the game. I would still put this higher than Fomantis, though; Ninetales at least has Dazzling Gleam to use against Nanu, but Lurantis is just too slow to do anything useful. I still don't think it's powerful enough to go any higher than low-mid, though.
Pikipek - honestly, I wouldn't put this any higher than Mid. Beak Blast is great, but reduced priority aside, Toucannon is too slow to really ever go first and not bulky enough to take hits well. You at least get it very early-game to make up for the mediocrity of its stats.
Wishiwashi - Top. You catch this thing not too far off from level 20, and School form Wishiwashi just takes hits so well in-game and dishes out pure, concentrated pain in return. It's also in the Fast Experience group, so it levels up quickly (it was over level 70 by the time I got to the Elite Four.) It sucks if you get below 25%, but you can buy plenty of potions to keep it healthy.
Fomantis - Pure concentrated garbage. This thing spent the majority of its time being a spaceholder; I remember it only being particularly relevant against Golem. Against Primarina, I already had Bullet Seed on Toucannon (Skill Link) and I also had Raichu. It's too slow and not quite powerful enough or bulky enough (70/90/90 isn't bulky enough for something as slow as Lurantis is). Salazzle at least has Speed to make up for its frailty, as does Raichu, but Lurantis gets nothing. I would honestly put this thing in bottom.
One other thing I should mention... Drop Solgaleo and Lunala to Mid Tier
Yes, they completely steamroll the rest of the game... but there's only 7 trainers left at that point! You've already conquered all the Island Trials, beaten all the Kahunas, stopped Lusamine... there's so little left, it's hard to justify using either of the mascot legendaries for a serious playthrough. If you wanted to make an argument for the post-game, then I could see them in High Tier... but we're not doing that, and if you got the Exp. Broke on, you're going to be only a few levels lower than them, and got actual EV's and movepools to boot.
Rowlet's line can solo : First Island, half of the Second Island (Water and Grass trials) and useful for Olivia, take a step back during Third Island but still useful, great for Fourth Island. It can solo all of Lusamine's team by itself except Clefable. For E4 you need to be careful with Dark moves but it's also really strong. It can go either Physical or Special or Mixed.
Rowlett's line can solo : First Island, half of the Second Island (Water and Grass trials) and useful for Olivia, take a step back during Third Island but still useful, great for Fourth Island. It can solo all of Lusamine's team by itself except Clefable. For E4 you need to be careful with Dark moves but it's also really strong. It can go either Physical or Special or Mixed.
Decidueye has enough SpDef to resist a Shadow Ball. Mismagius doesn't have enough Def to resist a Spirit Shackle. Second fight I was at the same level as the Mismagius and it did something like 70% ?
Decidueye has enough SpDef to resist a Shadow Ball. Mismagius doesn't have enough Def to resist a Spirit Shackle. Second fight I was at the same level as the Mismagius and it did something like 70% ?
Decidueye has exactly one thing going for it: Sinister Arrow Raid messes shit up. It's got a hurtier Z-move than anything else that can afford to spare its item slot will have for a while, once it evolves and you get the Decidium Z.
But Rowlet is trash, Dartrix is trash, and Decidueye is slow, frail, and becomes useless immediately after using Sinister Arrow Raid.
Also, the other starters can pull the exact same trick, so, uh, lol.
I'd honestly be fine with seeing it drop to Mid. It's not a good starter, it's not a good Grass, it's not a good Ghost, and using it means you're not using Litten or Popplio.
e: also, while Salamence is way too hard to get for it to factor into Bagon's tiering, I feel like when that gets a writeup, level 10 Mence does warrant a note to the effect of "you ain't gonna get it, but holy shit if you get it use it."
Debatable as hell. Others have already said here that the Rowlet line is pretty meh, and especially cascades into disappointment in the late game, not excelling in any one area and just being mediocre overall. Lurantis Totem slaps you around with neutral X-Scissor (And both Trumbeak and Castform are DIE), Olivia nukes you with rock moves if you fail to kill, Hau and his Raichu of DIE murder you, Vikavolt slaughters you, you do jack to the former steel captain, Mimikyu slaughters you, Guzma bops you hard with First Impression, Lusamine's Mismagius outspeeds and nukes you, Acerola comes back to bite you in the ass... It is NOT better than Popplio in-game.
It's still early, but I can't see Rowlet being anything but the worst of the three starters. Grass is a terrible ingame type. It's resisted by 7 types and weak to 5. Two of those types in both categories being poison and flying, both common as hell.
I feel like people understimate Decidueye. For me Rowlet/Dartrix were meh early game but as soon as it evolved into Decidueye it got a very good Ghost-type STAB and learns Leaf Blade slightly later on. Those two great STABs along with good attack, special bulk and a speed that isn't *that* bad for in-game made it one of my better team members.
I feel like people understimate Decidueye. For me Rowlet/Dartrix were meh early game but as soon as it evolved into Decidueye it got a very good Ghost-type STAB and learns Leaf Blade slightly later on. Those two great STABs along with good attack, special bulk and a speed that isn't *that* bad for in-game made it one of my better team members.
I feel like people understimate Decidueye. For me Rowlet/Dartrix were meh early game but as soon as it evolved into Decidueye it got a very good Ghost-type STAB and learns Leaf Blade slightly later on. Those two great STABs along with good attack, special bulk and a speed that isn't *that* bad for in-game made it one of my better team members.
No one's saying Rowlet is complete trash. It's just not as good as Popplio or Litten (especially the former). It struggles against so much once you get past the Wishiwashi totem fight, and even when it evolves fully, it's at JUST the right moment for a whole new wave of pain to hit it (High Mimikyu!) It's got a limited movepool, and against the Elite 4... it does OKAY against two, but sucks horribly against the other 2. It's just meh all over the place.
It's not bad against some important fights (Lusamine), but I feel it becomes more of a liability around that point too. Hala has mons that can still target Decidueye pretty well (Knock Off, Punishment, Pursuit, Brutal Swing, Ice Hammer). Olivia is okay for it, but there is legitimate fear of Lycanroc. It is terrible against Acerola - at best it can gunk down one threat with Decidium Z and that's probably its best attempt. And maybe beating Drifblim. Kahili just wrecks Decidueye.
The champion is also bad for Decidueye. Ninetales, Braviary, and Incineroar don't really give two shits about it. Neither does Snorlax. It's even shaky against Lyncanroc with it having Crunch.
The issue isn't that Decidueye is so trash it has to be Mid, but it is pretty damn bad after a certain point of the game. It really gets dreadful to use because a lot of Pokemon start packing moves that Decidueye is weak against (Ice becomes more common, Dark becomes much more menacing, other Ghost-types make it a neutral-at-best matchup). Furthermore, its Speed is often a liability that is hard to fix.
The latter. Pelipper has a decent Special Attack so it'll actually kill things with neutral Rain-boosted hits (especially if you use Hydro Vortex). Getting Scald early and for free without much of a detour (it'll take you like 30 seconds to grab it while doing Lana's trial) is also super nice.
Oricorio is ranked too low. Used Pom-Pom Oricorio for my first casual run and needless to say it was fairly useful.
I'm going to talk about Pom-Pom mostly because I didn't need to use the others. Pretty disorganised thoughts at the moment.
Availability - You get it as early as MeleMele Meadow in its Pom-Pom style. You can get the other forms later (Except Sensu which is like Postgame iirc) but for most of the game, Pom-Pom is all you need.
Typing - Electric / Flying is useful. Only weak to Rock-types (fairly common) and Ice-types (rare) and some useful resistances. Offensively you are mostly relying on Flying-type coverage which is solid as always, nailing a few types. Annoyingly you don't get your other STAB until the lategame unless you win the Hidden Power lottery but there are times where that STAB will be useful.
Stats - Stats are really great in the earlygame though they taper off in the lategame (bulk in particular) but Base 98 Sp. Attack and Base 93 Speed still do a lot of good. Its Physical Attack isn't terrible either so you can feasibly run mixed until you get to the lategame.
Movepool - Earlygame it gets Air Cutter at Lv13 and Acrobatics by TM as well as decent support in Baton Pass (Pass them X-Item and Work Up Boosts) and Hidden Power if you get lucky coverage (I lucked out and got Ground in my playthrough), even Work Up right off the bat. Roost midgame gives it sustain. Lategame it gets Air Slash and Revelation Dance to replace your earlier moves, Calm Mind for sweeping or passing, and even Hurricane if you are fond of 70% Accurate Moves. Most of these moves will be very useful throughout the entire game.
Major Battles - Hala 1 it deals with well if you get Air Cutter, Totem Lurantis is doable with X-Items though Trumbeak (Rock Blast) and Castform (Weather Ball) can maim it, wins Guzma 1 and 2 (and 3 with item support), treats Lusamine's Clefable as setup bait both times (second in particular with Calm Mind), and sets up handily against Hala 2 and the Flying Elite Four Member whose name I forget (as Pom-Pom Style). Does okay to bad elsewhere. Beats Leafeon / Decidueye for Hala. Point is it's very good from the moment you get it and it can set up and either sweep or pass boosts to other recipients which makes it a solid supporter for the team as well.
Point is, Oricorio's early availability (and good stats earlygame) and that it's multi-dimensional in terms of typing support and sweepiness make it better than Lower Mid. I don't know how high it should go, but Lower Mid undersells Oricorio a fair bit.
Other thoughts later but I agree with Popplio and Mudbray in High, Alolan Grimer was disappointing for me but others have had better experiences, and I am not sold on Lunala and Solgaleo in high since they comes right at the end of the game with seven major battles and no minor battles left and they don't necessarily have the best matchup against all of them though they have really crazy stats. Finally agree with Eggy in Lower Mid as it was very underwhelming when I used it and the slowness and bad defensive typing at that point of the game affects it a lot.
