Sun & Moon UU Speculation and Discussion Thread - Updated with UU Alpha!

[MZ]

I'm sorta surprised that there's been a decent amount of gigalith discussion/usage but it's either as a regular defensive pivot or people are pairing it with Lycanroc with only 1 sand team. I get new toy syndrome, but we have something way better than lycan.

VERY fast doggo (Stoutland) @ Normalium Z / Life Orb (only LO if you have another z user already)
Ability: Sand Rush
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Fire Fang

In a meta where HO is pretty much all I've been seeing because the new offensive toys are way more interesting and powerful than the defensive ones, VERY fast doggo is faster than pretty much the entire meta bar scarf keldeo/terrak, which I haven't even been seeing that much of. While it is slightly weaker than Lycanroc (115 to 110 base attack), Lycanroc only has Stone Edge/Crunch/Brick Break for any kind of coverage, worse natural bulk where Stoutland can actually tank a hit or two, and a larger weakness to Rachi and Scizor which are two of the three most busted things in the meta right now with torn-t. Breakneck Blitz is really huge for you to net some random KOs like a great shot to take out Volcanion after rocks (guaranteed with 1 sand turn) and in general is just there to let you bust past the one thing your team couldn't weaken enough before clicking return on the more frail offensive things. While being weak to loom mach and taking a ton from scizor BP can be annoying, it's been really key for me in handling offense matchups like the above sashspam as long as you can break sashes early and not choke vs DDnite. Opposing Zard Y arent even that annoying since they have to be mega'd already to immediately reset sun and you're going to be running Gigalith to check it at minimum. I dont have the time to dump a lot of calcs but give this a shot.
Oh and some teams can probably try play rough / psychic fangs / pursuit / banded which was King UU's very diff set, I just found being able to switch it up vs scizor/rachi/dhelmise was really good and psychic fangs didn't hit much

 

[Saria]

When Zydoge wasn't allowed I was annoyed, so I decided to dick the ladder with some cheese

Hide

Ninetales-Alola @ Choice Specs
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Freeze-Dry
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Hawlucha @ Figy Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
- Substitute

Infernape @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 HP / 64 SpD / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Slack Off

Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 224 HP / 252 Atk / 32 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Rock Slide

Jirachi @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Serene Grace
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball

Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Scald
- Slack Off

The team is so fucking bad, but it's 23-4 on the ladder somehow.

Specs Ninetales hits way harder than it might seem at first and that's because Hail chipping down shit is super good.
Jirachi annoys other rachis and OHKOes Doublade!!!
Infernape is the Scizor, Charizard, Volcarona and Weavile counter. It's surprisingly usable
Muk is really fucking fat and traps shit like Latias. +2 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Muk: 320-378 (77.2 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. Also absorbs toxic spikes for slowbro
Hawlucha is amazing and Figy is super good on it (it heals 50% of your HP after you drop below 25%)
Slowbro doesn't die, setups on LO Weavile and walls 90% of the physical attackers

I wouldn't recommend using that team

=======

After zydoge was released, I used a real team

Hide

Zydoge (Zygarde-10%) @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Toxic

Keldeo-Resolute @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Scald
- Secret Sword

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam

Cobalion @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance

Slowbro @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Slack Off

Mew @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 152 SpD / 104 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Knock Off

This one currently is 20-0 and I've been liking it a lot so far. The plan with the team is keep the pressure up every turn and slowly setup the sweep for any of my 5 win conditions.

Zydoge puts a fuckload of pressure vs offense, because nothing switches in for free. Faster than the legendary horses, Gengar / Latias and Thundurus give it ton of utility. CB Extreme Speed is fine. Toxic is because it annoys Tangrowth and Slowbro, and with enough chip damage you can threaten them with Outrage. This Pokemon is really scary late game because you can safely click one move and smack shit.

Keldeo is super good right now because it checks some major threats, like Weavile and Scizor, and is amazing at winning games. Spamming Scald early own is the play vs some of your counters, such as Latias and Slowbro. CM is extremely good against teams without those Pokemon, to the point in wins some matchups by itself. Slowbro + Keldeo share some counters, and Cobalion + Keldeo share other counters, which means you can use either of those Pokemon to help Keldeo sweep and viceversa

Kyurem-B with Scarf is the "fuck offense" pokemon. Way faster than Mega Aero, revenge kills +1 Dragonite even if it's at 100%, bulky enough to tank every single non-STAB super effective hit. Amazing early game for surprise kills, amazing mid game because it revenge kills important threats, and can tank a lot of bullshit and then retaliate with a OHKO, amazing late game because it cleans up. Zydoge + Kyurem-B are really good at pressuring Dragon-type checks

Cobalion is so much better in SUMO, it's ridic. Does the same thing it did in ORAS, except it is Knock Off proof now and it is a scary offensive Pokemon now.

+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 216+ Def Tangrowth: 288-340 (71.6 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 298-352 (73.7 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Want to beat it with Gliscor?

+4 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 8 Def Gliscor: 280-330 (79.5 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 168-198 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Now note it can get an additional +1 to all those calcs if it switches into any of that 80 Knock Off users in the teir.

Slowbro again because it's just so fucking good. Being crit proof is gives you so many autowins against some teams. Checks physical attackers, wears down shit for Keldeo, or just wins.

Mew is there because I wanted a defog Pokemon to not lose to hazard stacking, especially Toxic Spikes; team doesn't actually care about SR. 288 means faster than Gyarados, Dragonite, Mamo, etc. It's a nice glue Pokemon but not particularly good on this team and I have been thinking about replacing it.

I play aggression non-stop with this team, despite having Mew and Slowbro, to create holes in the opponent's team and then decide how to win. Every Pokemon, but Mew, can win games and finding which one is the most fit for any given matchup shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Saria]

ps: dhelmise is dog shit

 

[bsu]

Hikari do u find sub cm to be better than rest talk? in terms of like weavile/scizor check or is keldeo more of an offensive soft check on that team ( also assuming the calcs are using the fighting type z move for cobalion right?)

 

[Saria]

Hikari do u find sub cm to be better than rest talk? in terms of like weavile/scizor check or is keldeo more of an offensive soft check on that team ( also assuming the calcs are using the fighting type z move for cobalion right?)

It's a soft check for those Pokemon. I don't /need/ it to check them, but it can deal with them if necessary.

And yeah that's all-out pummeling or w/e the name is. I'm just lazy with the calculator

 

[Tymano]

Keldeo @ Waterium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Rain Dance
- Icy Wind

After trying this out on a whim, I can conclude that this set is one of its best ones. Waterium-Z boosts speed when Rain Dance is used, which turns it into a terrifying sweeper with boosted speed and Hydro Pumps. If you really want to get a kill on something, then just use a 180 bp Hydro Vortex to get a kill on something, Rain Dance also makes it a solid Zard + Sand check. Not much else to it honestly.

 

[Paraplegic]

Hey everyone, want to get into UU this gen so figured I may as well start posting. I want to bring up a mon that I think is actually super good but I haven't seen too many people mention. This mon is none other then Thundurus-Therian.
In such an offensive "meta"(if it can even be called one yet) strong, fast scarfers are so good. It also certainly helps its case that quite a few people are forgetting their electric resists(or even if they have them, often times they aren't good ones), and there's only a few grounds running around in general. A simple set of tbolt/HP ice/volt switch/ coverage(I personally use uturn so I can still pivot when I do run into a ground type) is so insanely effective. This thing is incredibly strong and forces a ton of switches, so pivoting with it is insanely easy and rewarding and it is so easy to gain and keep momentum when ever this thing is on your side of the field.

Now one may ask why you would use this over the plethora of other electric types at our disposal right now. I justify running it just due to the fact that it has such an insanely high special attack stat and also the fact that it outspeeds just about, if not all, of the entire relevent meta. These traits in my opinion make it the best option for a team if you need a strong, fast electric type cleaner/revenge killer. It also has volt absorb which makes it great for pivoting into other electrics to block volt switches, and its presence makes opponents think twice about clicking electric moves in general which is really nifty if this meta and makes it a pretty good partner for the likes of zard-y and azumarill among others. The fact that it makes great partners with already meta-defining(and borked) mons, and has a bunch of really good attributes in the current meta on top of that, make this mon worth serious consideration for a teamslot on a lot of builds right now. I have personally found it to work quite well on offense(a given) AND balance(surprised me a bit but its actually a pretty nice fit on some bulkier builds).

In conclusion, I'm honestly just so impressed with this mon right now and feel its almost criminally underrated. The fact that people are slacking on their electric resists, in conjuction with the facts that this thing just hits so hard and that many people dont seem to be noticing it too awful much right now make this arguably the biggest hidden gem in my eyes right now. I implore everyone to go and try out this beast, I promise you won't be disappointed by it!

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

So what Gen 7 mons (including formes) have been working out the most for people? I really want to use one on my team, but I'm not sure which ones are "viable" in current UU, if any at all.

 

[Paraplegic]

So what Gen 7 mons (including formes) have been working out the most for people? I really want to use one on my team, but I'm not sure which ones are "viable" in current UU, if any at all.

The new mon I've had the most success with is bewear. Fluffy is actually an insanely good ability, and combined with decent stats make this thing a serious tank. I've personally liked the banded set the most, as +1 superpower has pretty limited switchins and return or brutal swing bop most of those. I've found that that set excels in the offense matchup too, as being able to tank hits from almost every unboosted physical attacker and hit back with a banded attack is really good for taking out certain threats to your team.

For reference, here's what I run:

Bewear @ Choice Band
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Return
- Ice Punch
- Brutal Swing

 

[Froggyboy]

Earthquake is infinitely better than Brutal Swing. It 2HKOs max HP Doublade and kills Jirachi, while Brutal Swing doesn't do either. It sucks to be locked into if there is a Flying type on your opponent's team, but at least that's better than giving free switch-ins to every Dark resist in the tier(which are super common).

 

[Hayburner]

Alright so I've made it decently high on the ladder (about 30th) and l wanted to share a few teams as well as possibly have some input!
The first team I built around zygarde 10%:

Hide

Zygarde-10% @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Iron Tail
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Defog

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard

Charizard-Mega-Y @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- Solar Beam
- Roost

Latias @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Recover

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Scald
- Earthquake

The main idea of the team is to clean late game with zygarde. Colbur berry is on latias so it can survive a knock off from life orb weavile and just about ohko in return with +1 dragon pulse. Seismitoad, while not common in the tier, gives me rocks support, a rock resist, and a water immunity which is key with all the strong water types running around the tier. I use dragon pulse over air slash or focus blast on Zard Y to catch latias on the switch. On to the second team:

Hide

Kyurem-Black @ Icium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Freeze Shock
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Iron Head

Latias @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock

Bewear @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Return
- Substitute
- Bulk Up

Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Pursuit
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 SpD / 72 Spe
Careful Nature
- Roost
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind

I built this team around the power of icium Z kyurem black. The Z crystal gives it the ability to bluff the choice item and absolutely nuke a potential switch in. As for bewear, I've been switching back and forth between sub bulk up and band so pick your favourite set for that Mon. The team was looking very latias weak so spdef pursuit trapping muk is a good option. Assault vest with more attack investment is also an option.

Anyways try out the teams if you want they've served me pretty well
Any questions on sets I can try and give an explanation but I'm not good at examining things (lol)

 

[playerW17]

After altering some of the sets of stall team I presented on the previous page, I was able to reach the #1 rank on the UU alpha ladder, with roughly a 42-5 record using the finalised version of the team (before I lost twice trying to beat out Aquadext for the 4th time and dropped to 4th). (thanks to XQLRSZ (PrimaryCanary) for helping with the modified team).

Importable version of improved team

Knife Life (Weavile) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit

Chubby Fuddy (Blissey) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled

Muddy Buddy (Quagsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Curse

Bunches of Punches (Scizor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn

Loaf of Growth (Amoonguss) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Shelly Kelly (Slowbro-Mega) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Psyshock

Weavile remains exactly the same, but was honestly one of the strongest wincons and revenge killers I had during the climb. Banded Pursuit is especially strong in trapping a stupid amount of things, including Tornadus-T / Latias / Thundurus / Mew / Gengar and many weakened pokemon in general.

Blissey is now sporting the patented Stealth Rock + Toxic combo, instead of Heal Bell like any rational player. Stealth Rock is pretty much a core part of every stall team, and its utility in wearing down switches is invaluable. Toxic is pretty much just here to not lose to Giga Drain Volcarona, although its ability to wear down a lot of common switchins is excellent as well. I found that there was only about 3 games out of 47 that I actually wanted to use Heal Bell, although I did not run into many stall teams. This thing just catch all checks special threats in general, and is nearly essential on stall.

Quagsire has Curse in order to serve as a secondary wincon, as Toxic was almost never used. Its helpful against random things like SubBU Bewear and to help wall Terrakion/BD Azu more reliably as well. Its ability to wall Continental Crush Terrakion, BD Azu and most Dragonite sets is unequaled, and basically why its on the team. An electric immunity to defeat most Volt Switch users is also good to combat Volt-turn.

Scizor replaced Doublade in order to provide Defog and useful priority, while also giving a much better answer to Weavile, Banded Scizor and Banded Zygarde 10% (without risking toxic) in general. The Steel typing also helps against Kyurem-Black and assorted threats (e.g Sylveon).The slow U-Turn to pivot into Weavile is also very useful in certain matchups.

Amoonguss is exactly the same, and still provides a reliable water resist (for Keldeo/Azumarill etc) and reliable grass resist (for Serperior/Breloom). Hidden Power Fire is so that Forretress and Scizor cannot come in easily.

Mega Slowbro is here to help beat Dragonite, Kyurem-Black, Victini, All-Out-Pummeling Cobalion, as well as just being a catchall physical wall in general. Calm Mind provides a secondary wincon that many teams are weak to, as long as Toxic is avoided. The double Regenerator core is also quite good at creating free health and is efficient in general.

Overall on the ladder not many teams provided this one with an issue without hax, due to its ability to beat a huge amount of the tier's threats. A few notable threats I encountered were Happy Hour Jirachi carrying Energy Ball + Fire Punch, opposing stall teams able to handle Weavile (esp due to lack of Heal Bell), and Taunt + Toxic Gliscor paired with a Weavile switchin.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuualpha-497610243

This replay against Hogg shows the team's general strategy and ideal conditions.

p.s PIF if you're out there I'm sorry for stealing your names :[

 

[Threw]

Is a Bold nature on Blissey really that important? Blissey just isn't as bulky as Chansey; I'm not great at math, but if I'm not mistaken, all it would take is two doubles with rocks up to get it in potential 2HKO range for Zard Y, which is an extremely feasible situation to face against a competent player, especially one that also has a rocker that pressures Bliss such as Cobalion (and if Spikes are in play, forget about it), and even more especially once people realize Overheat is an incredible fourth move. The fact that your Defogger is a free switch in for Zard doesn't help either. Not trying to tear down the team, because this is a micro-issue that could just be fixed by switching the nature to Calm and throwing just a few EVs in SpDef, and I doubt there's a reason that it really needs to be Bold. The one very relevant reason you'd want Defense EVs is so Weav can't trap you, but even 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 SpD Calm is good enough to give you a good bit more breathing room against Zard without making you take a game-ending amount from a boosted Pursuit. Or, not any more game-ending than the damage you would take anyway :^

 

[Patrick1088]

I have been enjoying Pallosand and Z-Lure Volcanion along with balance in Crobat/Snorlax/Blissey/Banded Terrakion.

Pallosand 85/110/75 bulk is no joke and checks Terrakion and M-Aero.

Volcanion@Grassium-Z
Water Absorb
Modest Nature
128 HP/252 S.Atk/ 128 Speed
-Steam Eruption
-Fire Blast
-Solarbeam
-filler/HP of your choice

HP hits SR number, while maximizing s attack. 128 speed outpaces 0 speed Suicune. It blasts other bulky waters as well (Alo, Gatr, Keldeo, etc..) that think they can switch in. You need to sell that you may be choiced (possibly switching out the first time) to bluff.

Dragonite, Weavile and Svolipede are definitely annoying. Everything else isn't so bad so far.

 

[Bright Powder Cena]

So what Gen 7 mons (including formes) have been working out the most for people? I really want to use one on my team, but I'm not sure which ones are "viable" in current UU, if any at all.

I've been enjoying Mudsdale. It's stupidly bulky and hits pretty hard even without much investment. Here's the set I've been using:

Amazing Horse (Mudsdale) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam

It's a bit gimmicky, but it takes super effective hits pretty well and can generally do a lot back in return.

 

[oh95]

After altering some of the sets of stall team I presented on the previous page, I was able to reach the #1 rank on the UU alpha ladder, with roughly a 42-5 record using the finalised version of the team (before I lost twice trying to beat out Aquadext for the 4th time and dropped to 4th). (thanks to XQLRSZ (PrimaryCanary) for helping with the modified team).

Importable version of improved team

Knife Life (Weavile) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit

Chubby Fuddy (Blissey) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled

Muddy Buddy (Quagsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Curse

Bunches of Punches (Scizor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn

Loaf of Growth (Amoonguss) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Shelly Kelly (Slowbro-Mega) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Psyshock

Weavile remains exactly the same, but was honestly one of the strongest wincons and revenge killers I had during the climb. Banded Pursuit is especially strong in trapping a stupid amount of things, including Tornadus-T / Latias / Thundurus / Mew / Gengar and many weakened pokemon in general.

Blissey is now sporting the patented Stealth Rock + Toxic combo, instead of Heal Bell like any rational player. Stealth Rock is pretty much a core part of every stall team, and its utility in wearing down switches is invaluable. Toxic is pretty much just here to not lose to Giga Drain Volcarona, although its ability to wear down a lot of common switchins is excellent as well. I found that there was only about 3 games out of 47 that I actually wanted to use Heal Bell, although I did not run into many stall teams. This thing just catch all checks special threats in general, and is nearly essential on stall.

Quagsire has Curse in order to serve as a secondary wincon, as Toxic was almost never used. Its helpful against random things like SubBU Bewear and to help wall Terrakion/BD Azu more reliably as well. Its ability to wall Continental Crush Terrakion, BD Azu and most Dragonite sets is unequaled, and basically why its on the team. An electric immunity to defeat most Volt Switch users is also good to combat Volt-turn.

Scizor replaced Doublade in order to provide Defog and useful priority, while also giving a much better answer to Weavile, Banded Scizor and Banded Zygarde 10% (without risking toxic) in general. The Steel typing also helps against Kyurem-Black and assorted threats (e.g Sylveon).The slow U-Turn to pivot into Weavile is also very useful in certain matchups.

Amoonguss is exactly the same, and still provides a reliable water resist (for Keldeo/Azumarill etc) and reliable grass resist (for Serperior/Breloom). Hidden Power Fire is so that Forretress and Scizor cannot come in easily.

Mega Slowbro is here to help beat Dragonite, Kyurem-Black, Victini, All-Out-Pummeling Cobalion, as well as just being a catchall physical wall in general. Calm Mind provides a secondary wincon that many teams are weak to, as long as Toxic is avoided. The double Regenerator core is also quite good at

Overall on the ladder not many teams provided this one with an issue without hax, due to its ability to beat a huge amount of the tier's threats. A few notable threats I encountered were Happy Hour Jirachi carrying Energy Ball + Fire Punch, opposing stall teams able to handle Weavile (esp due to lack of Heal Bell), and Taunt + Toxic Gliscor paired with a Weavile switchin.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankuualpha-497610243

This replay against Hogg shows the team's general strategy and ideal conditions.

p.s PIF if you're out there I'm sorry for stealing your names :[

Lol, i play with you yesterday, nightmares with that stall team :(

 

[WildHope]

Alolan eggy gets flamethrower

Well, im stupid, but at least this make the set better

After altering some of the sets of stall team I presented on the previous page, I was able to reach the #1 rank on the UU alpha ladder, with roughly a 42-5 record using the finalised version of the team (before I lost twice trying to beat out Aquadext for the 4th time and dropped to 4th). (thanks to XQLRSZ (PrimaryCanary) for helping with the modified team).

Importable version of improved team

Knife Life (Weavile) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit

Chubby Fuddy (Blissey) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled

Muddy Buddy (Quagsire) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Curse

Bunches of Punches (Scizor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Defog
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn

Loaf of Growth (Amoonguss) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Shelly Kelly (Slowbro-Mega) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Slack Off
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Psyshock


p.s PIF if you're out there I'm sorry for stealing your names :[

Today i beat someone than copy pasted that team, is annoying to battle a good stall, but at end i break it with SD Scizor after taking care of Quagsire with someone else

Is hard to stay in the top10 with all the broken mons than make the tier match up based to the extreme, im using Gigalith to check special threats, physicaly defensive forretress for hazard control (and see who have a random fire move for Scizor) and Scarf Ditto because is the best thing agaisnt most HO teams, is pretty good in this meta

And people of the ladder, dont use Araquanid (and most of the gen 7 mons), is bad

 

[Vengeance417]

Mega Sharpedo is absolutely fantastic. Psychic Fangs did this thing so much justice, which allows this to blow past the many fighting types that originally took hits from it before, such as Keldeo, Heracross, Machamp, Toxicroak and Conkeldurr (Mach Punch doesn't OHKO at full while Conk dies to Adamant Psychic Fangs after rocks). I've also had success using this on a Hail team. Mega Sharpedo works well with Hail from my experience because not only does Ninetales and Sandslash appreciate Mega Sharpedo's ability to remove problematic Fire types that threaten the Ice types, but Mega Sharpedo also appreciates the Aurora Veil that Ninetales sets up as well, which weakens super effective priority like Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave, making cleaning a whole lot easier to do.

 

[Kink]

Mega Sharpedo is absolutely fantastic. Psychic Fangs did this thing so much justice, which allows this to blow past the many fighting types that originally took hits from it before, such as Keldeo, Heracross, Machamp, Toxicroak and Conkeldurr (Mach Punch doesn't OHKO at full while Conk dies to Adamant Psychic Fangs after rocks). I've also had success using this on a Hail team. Mega Sharpedo works well with Hail from my experience because not only does Ninetales and Sandslash appreciate Mega Sharpedo's ability to remove problematic Fire types that threaten the Ice types, but Mega Sharpedo also appreciates the Aurora Veil that Ninetales sets up as well, which weakens super effective priority like Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave, making cleaning a whole lot easier to do.

Mega sharp and it's non-mega counterpart have had access to Zen Headbutt for multiple generations which normally allowed it to bypass those fighting types anyway. Not much has really changed for Mega Sharpedo this gen at all. Not to mention that running Psychic coverage means you're not running stuff like Ice fang, Eq, or Destiny Bond, the two former hitting a larger array of threats that hinder Mega Sharp's ability to sweep, while the latter gives it a last support option that can really mess with an opponent's team's cohesion/strategy. As for "beating Conk", yeah it'll never do that unless the set is strictly AV with zero bulk. BU will survive and OHKO and can even use Mach Punch if statuses or +1. Banded Iron Fist will OHKO without a second thought. Just thought I'd point that out, no reason to rely on hyperbole, majority of us know what Sharp does lol. It's usually better to run something else, but yeah Psychic fangs is minimally interesting I guess.

 

[Vengeance417]

Mega sharp and it's non-mega counterpart have had access to Zen Headbutt for multiple generations which normally allowed it to bypass those fighting types anyway. Not much has really changed for Mega Sharpedo this gen at all. Not to mention that running Psychic coverage means you're not running stuff like Ice fang, Eq, or Destiny Bond, the two former hitting a larger array of threats that hinder Mega Sharp's ability to sweep, while the latter gives it a last support option that can really mess with an opponent's team's cohesion/strategy. As for "beating Conk", yeah it'll never do that unless the set is strictly AV with zero bulk. BU will survive and OHKO and can even use Mach Punch if statuses or +1. Banded Iron Fist will OHKO without a second thought. Just thought I'd point that out, no reason to rely on hyperbole, majority of us know what Sharp does lol. It's usually better to run something else, but yeah Psychic fangs is minimally interesting I guess.

Zen Head butt doesn't do anywhere near as much compared to Psychic Fangs, which has slightly higher base power and is boosted by Strong Jaw. It's also 100% accurate as well, making it more reliable in every way besides missing the flinch chance. Also, there's no need to run Ice Fang when running this with Hail since you have all of the Ice coverage in the world with your Hail sweeper and setter to begin with.

 

[playerW17]

Is a Bold nature on Blissey really that important? Blissey just isn't as bulky as Chansey; I'm not great at math, but if I'm not mistaken, all it would take is two doubles with rocks up to get it in potential 2HKO range for Zard Y, which is an extremely feasible situation to face against a competent player, especially one that also has a rocker that pressures Bliss such as Cobalion (and if Spikes are in play, forget about it), and even more especially once people realize Overheat is an incredible fourth move. The fact that your Defogger is a free switch in for Zard doesn't help either. Not trying to tear down the team, because this is a micro-issue that could just be fixed by switching the nature to Calm and throwing just a few EVs in SpDef, and I doubt there's a reason that it really needs to be Bold. The one very relevant reason you'd want Defense EVs is so Weav can't trap you, but even 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 SpD Calm is good enough to give you a good bit more breathing room against Zard without making you take a game-ending amount from a boosted Pursuit. Or, not any more game-ending than the damage you would take anyway :^

The problem with using that spread is that Life Orb Latias is able to 2hko Blissey after rocks.

252 SpA Life Orb Latias Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 220 Def Blissey: 321-380 (44.9 - 53.2%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Although Latias is easily pursuited by Weavile, I found that most Latias tended to run HP Fire and thus I valued having a Latias switchin compared to handling Charizard-Y better. I do agree that a well played Charizard-Y paired with hazard stack or Pursuit is very difficult for the team to overcome, however.

 

[Kink]

Zen Head butt doesn't do anywhere near as much compared to Psychic Fangs, which has slightly higher base power and is boosted by Strong Jaw. It's also 100% accurate as well, making it more reliable in every way besides missing the flinch chance. Also, there's no need to run Ice Fang when running this with Hail since you have all of the Ice coverage in the world with your Hail sweeper and setter to begin with.

252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 256-302 (85 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 576-680 (155.6 - 183.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Psychic Fangs vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 260-306 (71.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 244-288 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Psychic Fangs vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 236-278 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 222-262 (68.7 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Now, Psychic Fangs might get a boost from Strong Jaw, I don't know. It seems that the calcs presented don't actually include the Strong Jaws power boost even though I do have it listed as an ability. If it's not boosted, then like I said nothing has changed for it at all. If it does get the boost, I still think that Mega Sharp is better off using other moves in order to expand its sweeping coverage. The overlap between EQ and Psychic Fangs, for instance, shows us that EQ actually gains coverage on more typing, including neutral coverage at least from a competitive standpoint. The ONLY notable thing that you would KO is Keldeo assuming the power boost exists. I grant you, this gives Psychic Fangs a minor niche in the current alpha phase. But as I said before, not much has changed in terms of its competitive use and Psychic Fangs isn't THAT impressive. Again, I'm trying to counter some of the hyperbole presented in your first post. It really isn't all that revolutionary, at least for now. Perhaps strategies may change in the future, and seeing as we're not even in Beta yet, it would be a disservice to categorically deny the possibility that Psychic Fangs (with the power boost from Strong Jaws) might have a slightly larger niche than the one I describe, but I predict it will be a niche all the same.

 

[Vengeance417]

252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Heracross: 256-302 (85 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 576-680 (155.6 - 183.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Psychic Fangs vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 260-306 (71.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 244-288 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Psychic Fangs vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 236-278 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Sharpedo-Mega Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 222-262 (68.7 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Now, Psychic Fangs might get a boost from Strong Jaw, I don't know. It seems that the calcs presented don't actually include the Strong Jaws power boost even though I do have it listed as an ability. If it's not boosted, then like I said nothing has changed for it at all. If it does get the boost, I still think that Mega Sharp is better off using other moves in order to expand its sweeping coverage. The overlap between EQ and Psychic Fangs, for instance, shows us that EQ actually gains coverage on more typing, including neutral coverage at least from a competitive standpoint. The ONLY notable thing that you would KO is Keldeo assuming the power boost exists. I grant you, this gives Psychic Fangs a minor niche in the current alpha phase. But as I said before, not much has changed in terms of its competitive use and Psychic Fangs isn't THAT impressive. Again, I'm trying to counter some of the hyperbole presented in your first post. It really isn't all that revolutionary, at least for now. Perhaps strategies may change in the future, and seeing as we're not even in Beta yet, it would be a disservice to categorically deny the possibility that Psychic Fangs (with the power boost from Strong Jaws) might have a slightly larger niche than the one I describe, but I predict it will be a niche all the same.

Use the Nugget Bridge Calculator. It has the correct calculations for most of the 7th gen mechanics so far: http://jake-white.github.io/VGC-Damage-Calculator/

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Psychic Fangs vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Machamp: 386-456 (106 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Psychic Fangs vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 350-414 (108.3 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Psychic Fangs vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 408-480 (135.5 - 159.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It does get boosted. I feel this is great for a cleaner like Mega Shark. Ice Fang, and DBond have their uses, but so does Psychic Fangs, imo. The fact it can OHKO the likes of Keldeo now without the need for any prior damage is nuts.

Edit: And to be honest, all EQ hits is Cobalion and Lucario (which still takes a lot from Mega Shark's Psychic Fangs anyways, still doing more than Waterfall). Everything else that EQ hits super effectively is hit harder by Crunch due to STAB + Strong Jaw, so EQ, imo, is absolutely trash on Mega Sharpedo.

 

[dodmen]

Azumarill is one of the scariest Pokemon for me to face in this metagame and it's also one that I've been having exceptional ease setting up sweeps for. I actually prefer Sitrus > Z Belly Drum since it's much less situational and can be useful even if you don't have the chance to set up a BD. Overall, it's ridiculously easy to get it into a position to set up by forcing things to revenge kill fast stuff like Zydog and Jirachi. And there's only a handful of Water resists that can actually reliably prevent a sweep - these being offensive Grass-types like Serperior and Celebi, Supersonic Strike Gyarados, and a healthy KyuB. I'd legit pick Azu if there was only one thing I could pick to ban from this metagame, even over Kyurem and stuff.

Breloom is also an extremely threatening Pokemon, as there are only a few fast Fighting resists that offense can use to stop a +2 Breloom (maybe difficult but certainly feasible to set up because of Spore). While Azu feasts on offensive threats like Hydreigon and Keldeo to set up, Breloom forces a sleep fodder against ANY slower Pokemon unless the opposing team has a Amoonguss, Celebi, or Tangrowth, only the former two of which are actual reliable counters to loom. It's something that's easy to forget about when building a team, and if you don't have a 100% way of dealing with it, expect it to put in a reasonable amount of work against your team if you have even one Pokemon that it can take advantage of. Its revenge killing capabilities against stuff like Sharpedo and weakened Scarf Rachi makes it useful in literally every single matchup.

Necrozma is something that's flown under the radar so far. The set I've been using is Iron Defense/Calm Mind/Stored Power/Moonlight with 241 Speed and the rest into Defense. With the proper team support (I have Togekiss, Z Cobalion, Scarf Krook to beat most Dark types, I have TSpikes, and Toge can Heal Bell if needed), it easily outlives Dark-types, as only Hydreigon has reliably recoverly. The set is an absolute menace for HO to face and if you can set up an Iron Defense on something like Coba/Terrak or something else that can't touch you, it's basically only possible to take down with crits. It can also boost alongside Gyarados and other sweepers like that, beating them again barring crits. This is the biggest advantage it has over Mega Slowbro, as well as the fact that it's fast enough to not be as pressured by stuff like Scizor, Primarina, and other slower attackers. It's also possible to run enough Speed to outspeed Breloom, if necessary.

And of course, Kyurem-B is terrifying as expected - having to play around the threat Scarf with offense makes this even harder to deal with.

As for Pokemon we've already had experience with in UU:

Azelf is far and away my favorite SR user and in my opinion the best one for offense, as it was as at the beginning of XY UU. Though it does lose to lead Aero, which I've seen a decent amount of on the ladder, it's otherwise very reliable at getting up Rocks. The major selling point over Aero is Explosion which, as usual, safely brings in one of the many, many sweepers we have in the tier - quickpass Scolipede, Breloom, Mega Zard Y, Zydoge, Salamence, and etc etc can be brought in for free with very little chance of SR on their side.

Jirachi is a really fun Pokemon to play with when you're not getting flinched by Iron Head. The set I've enjoyed the most is Expert Belt with max SpA, Iron Head/Fire Punch/Grass Knot and then one of Psychic/Thunderbolt (fuck Gyara)/U-turn. Really good for luring a lot of common Iron Head switchins like Scizor, Suicune, Swampert, Quagsire on stall, Keldeo, Infernape, Krook...etc. Meant to be paired with a fast thing like Zydog or Mega Sharpedo, which works well if you manage to lure stuff. I could see a Z Happy Hour set be used to do something similar, though I haven't used it. Obviously it's got a fuckton of other sets it can run as well, the most effective of which are SR/U-turn/Iron Head/filler and Scarf, but which also include fun stuff like Doom Desire. I'm actually finding it hard to not use either Rachi on Scizor on every team because of how much they can each bring to the table with their different sets.

Mega Sharpedo is an absolute menace - with some simple chip damage on Scizor or Azumarill or a couple other things, it's not hard at all to get kills with this late game. The ladder right now is almost entirely bulky offense, which Sharpedo excels against, and it's not too shabby vs fat teams either.

Baton Pass is honestly still retarded. The most broken abuser right now is Scolipede (Sash Spikes + 2 attacks, or LO + 3 attacks) which has tons and tons of options to choose from as we all are aware. There's also SD/NP Pass from Mew, Celebi, Decidueye (kinda shit mon but BP sets can be a huge surprise), Gliscor, or even Scizor - again there are plenty of threats to choose from like Sharpedo, Scarf Jirachi, Mamoswine, Gyarados, Zydog. No excuse of "but it's just Celebi lol!" this time from people who don't play UU.

 

[guan123]

I wonder if an "On the Radar for Alpha UU) should be a thing. Quite a bit of ORAS OU has dropped down and many members, such as Dragonite, Keldeo, Kyurem-Black, Weavile, Azumarill, Mega Charizard Y, and some others would be considered overcentralizing or even broken. I project that this gen's BL is going to be very large. I wonder if the above pokemon are broken, merely overcentralizing, or should stay in UU. I am not advocating for bans yet but want to know what others think.

Seems like the main playstyles are hyper offense or stall, with balance being very rare. Balance is rare because of how many great offensive threats are in the metagame. Is this true?