Sun teams with no chlorosweepers? Why no-Oh, it's been done already...

alphatron

Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
Team in a nutshell: Ninetales, Heatran, Volcorona, Celebi, Forretress, Dragonite

I've recently been having fun with this team, so I wanted to post it up and get some advice and input from you guys.
Fire Man (Ninetales) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: EVs: 112 HP / 252 SAtk / 144 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam

If I were still running an avatar themed team, would Ninetales be Sozin or Ozai? Maybe heatran would be Ozai...

Was using a bulky Ninetales before this. But I decided to try this set out after seeing that a few others had some success with it. I've come to appreicate Ninetales' speed tier after hp ice saved me from a weakened dragonite and a choice band haxorus. Fire blast is monstrous under sunlight. Solarbeam is only here because I'm using sunny day. Making the other weather inducers switch in as I use sunny day helps as 3/4 of them are weak to solarbeam. I may not be ohking tyranitar or politoed with this, but it definitely helps as they are 2hko'd and I can simply take them out mid match after they've sustained some damage.

Changes: Ev spread has been optimized


Roll (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Volt Switch
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball

I'm pretty bad with themed teams...back when this was an Avatar: The last Airbender team, forry's name was Toph and she had Earthquake instead of Volt Switch. Balloon heatran didn't like that too much though.

Female thanks to rivalry choice band haxorus. He's here more so for toxic spikes than for spinning, as toxic spikes are what make winning the weather war so easy to begin with. Gyro ball is his staple filler attack. Rapid spin is obvious, while volt switch is for netting me free slower switches to other pokemon so that they can come in unharmed. Hilariously, it also hurts gyarados for a decent amount of damage. The mental herb is a remnant of when I used to run stealth rock, as most HO teams do not run taunters, but just a lead deo-S with taunt instead. It has its moments, but I'll probably replace it.

Changes: With Celebi carrying magic coat, he didn't really need the mental herb that much anymore. It's still useful against a few of the taunters out there, but leftovers comes into playu more often.

Mega Man (Dragonite) (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake

Sweeper #1. He's pretty self explanatory. Everyone except for forretress mandhandles steel type pokemon, so I'm most likely going to replace fire punch for earthquake. Fire punch is only here to serve as bait for the steel types who would switch out of everyone else, but meh. This would also make heatran much a bit easier to handle.

Magma Man (Heatran) (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Magma Storm
- Roar
- Earth Power

I love him. Specially bulky heatran is amazing under sunlight, taking specs surfs from latios and laughing them off as if they're nothing. Magma Storm is wonderful as the enemy weather inducers absolutely love switching into heatran. While eliminating the possibility of a double switch, it lets me pile on additional damage with toxic spikes. Magma storm is even better against jellicient, who also enjoys switching into heatran and getting trapped while dying to toxic damage. Removing jellicient isn't needed, but it forry is still alive, I want to make his job as a rapid spinner easier. More importantly, with the increased usage of tentacruel, heatran plays a very important part in dispatching it so that I may set up toxic spikes freely. In sunlight, heatran muscles down and beats Tenta with ease. Scald? 16-19%. Magma storm means that it isn't switching out either.

Roar is for emergencies and stealth rock is...well, stealth rock. I never liked running SR on heatran, so I'll probably run it on someone else. I could replace SR with protect if someone else was running it instead. Or I could just run the torment tran route to make heatran's trapping job a lot easier. Dugtrio? What the hell is that?

Plant Man (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Magic Coat/Recover
- Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Heatran's right hand man. Makes winning the weather war against rain easier, and handles the Scizor/Rotom-W combo all on its own. It counters terrakion with X-scissor and makes landorus' life tough. I have no idea why the hell I'm running heal bell. My two sweepers have insurance against status and I've only used this move a grand total of one time in any battles (I will admit that it saved my ass). I could probably replace heal bell for SR and free up one of heatran's moveslots.

I'm somewhat considering replacing Celebi with a Cresselia of the same EV spread and nature. Cress handles landorus and all sorts of terrakion way better than Celebi ever could, still fries Scizor with a sun boosted hp fire, and gives a counter to all dragons save for hydriegon and subDD dragonite (he's only countered by one pokemon anyway). Unfortunately, Cresselia does not manhandle politoed as easily as Celebi does either. Celebi is also heatran bait, picking off non specially bulky ones with earth power and clearing the way for both dragonite and Volcorona. At this point, I'm thinking either Nasty Plot or SR over heal bell.

Changes: Magic Coat was given to Celebi as a way to deal with Deo-S hazard leads. Otherwise, it has been useful for helping my opponent cripple himself with his own status attacks or hazard stacking.


Heat Man (Volcarona) (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Morning Sun

I was running chesto rest bulkyrona before it was cool. Although I used to run enough EVs to outspeed Scarftar, I decided not to bother since I don't see scarftar anymore. Good thing too, scarftar is sort of crappy. In the sunlight, this thing sets up on pretty much everything. I've actually set up on a scarfed terrakion before who used X-scissor when expecting me to switch to Celebi. I'm using fire blast over fiery dance thanks to the ease this set has of setting up. This set probably won't change.

Changes: Switched to the lum/morning sun set but I haven't changed the EVs yet. I may in the future, but most of volc's checks and counters do not allow you to ramp up beyond +1 most of the time anyway.

Threat list: Offensive
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Politoed: Celebi can only be 2hko'd by specs hydro pump, a max damage roll twice in a row, and a layer of hazards. Giga drain means that this scenario will occur once every ten thousand years when Rita escapes. If volcorona gets 2 quiver dances up (or even one should toed have less than 60% of it's health), then I have even less to worry about.

Tyranitar: Specially bulky t-tar is of no consequence and loses the minute he switches into heatran's magma storm with tspikes down (and he always does). Bandtar is much tougher to deal with and is probably the only time wear I would admit to wanting dugtrio on my team...if it weren't for the couple of shed shell t-tars I have been seeing lately.

Dragonite: If he doesn't have EQ, then heatran roars him out and sets up SR. If he's SubDD, heatran does the same thing. If subDD is the last pokemon, try to muscle it down with volcorona. If it's rain abuser dragonite, then try to set up sun by baiting a hurricane and switching to Ninetales. Probably the biggest reason why I want to use Cresselia, as she counters all of his sets save for SubDD. If it tries to set up on Ninetales with a lum berry in tow, I'll just use hp ice, which has a high chance to ko if dragonite has already taken SR damage.

Terrakion: I have to get lucky with prediction depending on who he comes in on. Heatran can take X-scissors all day, while Celebi can tank stone edges and close combats while healing off the damage with giga drain. Cresselia is the most reliable answer. Unfortunately, there isn't room for seven team slots.

Rotom-W: Celebi shrugs off anything it can do, aside from tricking me its choice items. Volt switching is annoying though.

Reuniclus: Offensive trick room is beaten by a healthy volcorona. So is the CM Version.

Latios: Heatran is my answer. Even though I don't exactly do anything back to it, I gain some momentum and extra residual damage. If I see this thing on rain teams, it's tougher to wall, as I'll need the sun up in order to laugh at its surfs.

Haxorus: Hope that forretress is still alive. If not, punch myself in the face for not using cresselia.

Dugtrio: Just play carefully and don't fall for double switches...He can't actually switch into the attacks of anybody on the team. Usually, people try to switch their focus sash dugtrio into heatran's magma storm when hazards aren't up. I laugh because MAGMA STORM MISSES AND HEATRAN DIES. Should Dugtrio actually kill Ninetales, the team can still win since it isn't heavily reliant on sun without any chlorosweepers.

Heatran: Celebi baits it in and uses earth power on the non specially bulky variants. My own heatran does the same thing. To make my life easier, I should just slap EQ onto dragonite and remove the middle man...

Latias: Heatran will never give SubCM Latias any room to set up. Niether will Volcorona or dragonite after he's already set up.

Lucario: They don't run stone edge, so Volcorona can just kill it. Ninetales can revenge it if he's healthy enough.

Starmie: Usually I kill it with Celebi. I can't really complain much about it. If it tries to rapid spin, forretress will just volt switch out. If it comes in on heatran under sunlight, then heatran will simply kill it.

Salamence
: Don't ever let this thing set up. If Volcorona or Dragonite haven't already set up, then I probably lost. Sometimes I get lucky and he attempts to set up on Ninetales. Another reason to use cresselia, but I don't see him too often.

Threat list: Defensive
---
Uhhh....


Well, there it is. Rate and give comments. And yes, Blue-Star's team gave me inspiration to try something like this out. Here's a log of me using the team. Although I'll admit that I made risky plays and that it isn't the best battle ever.

http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-EasterRabbit-vs-alphatron--2011-11-03
 
Hello, nice team you have here.


--Run Shed Shell on Forretress if you keep encountering Magnezone, but I think Mental Herb would prove to be more useful more of the time due to the exploding popularity of HO teams.

--If you find Dragonite not needing ExtremeSpeed very often, you could use Earthquake instead, slightly mitigating your Heatran grievances.

--Consider running Leftovers on Heatran, as you probably switch him into weak attacks.

--I'd say keep Celebi to help ward off Water moves.
-As you mentioned, you can drop Heal Bell on Celebi for Stealth Rock to give Heatran a free moveslot for Protect/Will-O-Wisp/Toxic/Hidden Power Grass, whatever.
-Nasty Plot would be better utilized with a more offensive EV spread that would be out of place on this team.
-Thunder Wave is cool for crippling Lati@s/Salamence who think they are cool enough to switch in.
-Healing Wish is an interesting option you can try if you want to give another 'Mon a second chance.


I am sorry if I sound wishy-washy, but listing options is all I can really do.

Good luck.
 
You made a Sun team AND named all the Pokes after Mega Man characters!? O_o

...you are my hero.

Declarations of reverence aside, the only glaring problem I see is a complete lack of Fighting-type moves. Ground-type coverage isn't what it used to be, what with Air Balloon being so popular. Fighting hits 4 of the Pokes on your threat list for super effective damage: Ttar (4x effective), Terrakion, Lucario, and Heatran, the last of which likes to carry the aforementioned Air Balloon. You used Gallade in a few of your warstories (awesome warstories, BTW ;D), I think it would make a great addition to the team. The Bulk Up set with Ice Punch-- sorry, Justice Up set with Ice Justice hits 12 of the 14 Pokemon on your threat list for super effective damage.
 
Why no Cloro-Sweeper?

Seriously, why not? Venusaur performs most of the same roles that Celebi is doing, while providing a powerful sweeper. Tangrowth+Heatran is one of the most solid cores this side of SkarmBliss, simply since most of the moves launched at them are resisted by the other. And Tangrowth can perform as a Sun sweeper too. (Tangrowth cannot take on politoed though.)

I would suggest switching Celebi to Venusaur and trying that out. You can even run Sleep Powder over growth to provide utility if you don't want another set-up sweeper.
 
On bulkyrona I love it and it sweeps so much; however under sun your set is i believe outclassed by morning sun qd.
Also, use 24 speed evs and take those out of hp; this lets you outspeed starmie after a QD which can help a lot. swap chesto berry for lum/lefties and use morning sun over rest; it is a 66% healing move under sun.
 
Hey alphatron, I won't even try to tell you what to do, you're the boss on sun teams. However, this would look better if it gets pictures. Why don't I make sun teams this good ;-;
 
Perhaps you could run perish song on Celebi, it could be used in tandem with Heatran's magma storm to either scare set up sweepers into switching or take them out completely. Just a thought though, I didn't test it or anything
 
Hey alphatron, nice team you have there, and glad to know I was the inspiration xD.

There are some minor changes I'd like you to try, though. Firstly, Ninetales EV Spread. Ninetales only needs 108 Speed EVs to outspeed Timid Specs Toed, so you can dump the rest into its HP for more survivability.

Secondly, I think Dragonite wants Earthquake over Fire Punch or Extremespeed. Opposing Heatran are annoying for this team, since they outspeed and OHKO almost everyone on your team with the right move. Earthquake Dragonite would, however, be an excellent counter for them.

I also think Celebi wants Recover > Heal Bell. Recover enables you to switch-in on Politoed and others much better, while Heal Bell isn't that useful since your team isn't that crippled by status.

Lastly, Bulky Volcarona should probably use Morning Sun > Rest. Morning Sun heals 66% of your health in Sun, but it can be used 8 times instead of only 1.

Good luck!
 
Changes I've made so far are listed in the bolded portions of the first post. Thanks for the help, guys!

Venusaur is currently being tested in place of Celebi but I have no final set for him yet. Celebi has been holding its place for the moment though. I haven't gotten too much time to play recently...
 
Hey pretty good team here,

I believe Venusaur works much better than Celebi there, but if you don't plan on changing that I'd suggest you running Life Orb on Celebi for more power.

Also, Ninetales only needs 108 EVs on Speed, put the rest in HP or Defense.

That is pretty much it, good luck ^^
 
Nice team, alphatron.

Ninetales only need 128 Spe EVs to outrun Haxorus, btw. I prefer Will-O-Wisp, since burn comes in more handy than a weak HP Ice :0. I know you have Toxic Spikes, but there are still mons like Dragonite, Gyarados, Lum Haxorus, etc that are unaffected by the entry hazard and would hate to be burned.

I don't think Venusaur fills Celebi's role effectively. The main issue is the lack of Ground resist, which this team very much appreciates.

You may want to consider Nasty Plot over Recover / Magic Coat on your Celebi. With 80 EVs in SAtk, it takes out specially-defensive Heatran at +2. You may even want to couple this with Baton Pass, because Celebi is such a momentum killer / Pursuit-bait, which Baton Pass fixes. You lose out HP Fire to roast Scizor, but your team is not overly weak to the Volt-Turn combination imo. You will mostly use it to dry-pass, but Baton Pass also serves to break stall by setting up on Blissey / Chansey, which seems to wall your team but Dragonite, and pass the boosts to Volcarona.

Another option is Thunder Wave, which will be very much appreciated to this slow team. Paralysis is the ultimate hax, and will win Volca and Dragonite free turns to set up. Similar to Will-o-Wisp, T-Wave is targeted at mons that are immune to Toxic Spikes, which are plentiful. For instance, it prevents this Grass mon to be set-up / free switch-in for Salamence.
 
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