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Super Smash Bros. Brawl: Character and Tier Discussion
- Thread starter Firestorm
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That sounds like an improvement to me, MrE!
I think the only relevant results are tourney results in this case.
Wow, some of the characters here are ranked very differently from smash boards. Toon link high tier? I can't beleive there are so many people who use characters only because of their position on the tier list. I love playing as pikachu and wolf, pikachu especially because I get to show off all the advanced techs. Lucario should be higher in the list by the way, hes a comboing beast.
I thought you played that amazing Ness, Colin, not a Meta Knight or Snake (unless I am mistaken and Ness is high tier now)
I was confused as to what in the world you were talking about because we don't have a tier list until I realized that I still had the first SmashBoards tier list in the first post. It has been updated now.
This really only helps the Snake and Falco matchups substantially. DK is an inherently flawed character in that he's not MK in a game that has MK.
Late response, but
He said he used characters because he was good with them as opposed to them being on the top of the tier list. If he wants to play that seriously outside of tournies then it's relevant.
Late response, but
He said he used characters because he was good with them as opposed to them being on the top of the tier list. If he wants to play that seriously outside of tournies then it's relevant.
Eventually, those chars will be better. But w/e.
Jigglypuff is surprisingly great, if only she were heavier :/. Her aerial game is almost like Squritle and Rest can really force people to keep their distance. Plus, she can be CG whored by Falco, Pikachu, Peach... well, you get the point, she's light but, too light ;_;.
The only thing that I can say now is that Falco's gonna drop. GW's gonna move into his place or if anyone finds some type of fault with Snake/Meta, he'll probabally take one of their spots. I mean, come on, GW has very nice kill moves with almost no lag, his trumpet (Uair), dthrow + dsmash KOs around 80-ish% near the end of the stage, Up-b can really screw up MK's Nado, Bair, frikken Bair approaches, the list goes on. CGs from Falco aren't really that bad unless you let him spike you, his vertical recovery (and horizonal to an exent) suck and he's so gimpable though he's considered not-so-light. Lasers aren't really that annoying to chars who can deal with them/outprioritize them/reflect them/take them and his aerial game is pretty sub-par, only giving us his Bair :/.
The only thing that I can say now is that Falco's gonna drop. GW's gonna move into his place or if anyone finds some type of fault with Snake/Meta, he'll probabally take one of their spots. I mean, come on, GW has very nice kill moves with almost no lag, his trumpet (Uair), dthrow + dsmash KOs around 80-ish% near the end of the stage, Up-b can really screw up MK's Nado, Bair, frikken Bair approaches, the list goes on. CGs from Falco aren't really that bad unless you let him spike you, his vertical recovery (and horizonal to an exent) suck and he's so gimpable though he's considered not-so-light. Lasers aren't really that annoying to chars who can deal with them/outprioritize them/reflect them/take them and his aerial game is pretty sub-par, only giving us his Bair :/.
Rest doesn't force anyone to do anything except know how to avoid dair -> Rest at moderate percentages or counterpick stages with higher ceilings, if for some retarded reason they have issues with Rest.
You're missing some points on Falco. You've tried to downgrade him by focusing on some of his bad aspects and underrating one of his good ones. CG by itself is free starting damage. That's especially important when you've taken a stock off the opponent. The spike afterwards is only deadly if you're Wolf or Link. With anyone else, you're forced off the stage. 90% of the time that puts Falco (and many other characters, were they to put someone off the stage) in an advantageous position.
His aerial game is pretty damn good. All off his aerials minus Fair are good in their own right and can usually be autocanceled to lead into his ground game.
Lasers are annoying no matter who you are. Characters with projectile absorption/reflection moves still have to deal with Falco himself, who has a game outside of lasers. Even then, Falco can mix in lasers to lead off his attacks. In short, you aren't necessarily going to null anywhere close to half of the lasers a good Falco shoots out just because you have a reflector.
Btw, you can't outprioritize lasers.
I won't say that G&W isn't good, but I can't see him taking Falco's spot at all. Especially not with your current argument. Dthrow -> Dsmash isn't guaranteed by any means. Bair approaches are good overall, but it is counterable OoS (in my experiences at least). Even if it truly isn't, most characters will have a certain way of dealing with it (Marth can outspace it, Falco can laser it, etc). That doesn't make it bad, by any means, it just means that spamming/spacing bair isn't universally refutable tactic.
Unlike Falco, who generally use most of his maneuvers against the cast to some effect. Even if some floatier characters escape it, he has natural follow-ups to his dthrow that still put them at his mercy.
You're missing some points on Falco. You've tried to downgrade him by focusing on some of his bad aspects and underrating one of his good ones. CG by itself is free starting damage. That's especially important when you've taken a stock off the opponent. The spike afterwards is only deadly if you're Wolf or Link. With anyone else, you're forced off the stage. 90% of the time that puts Falco (and many other characters, were they to put someone off the stage) in an advantageous position.
His aerial game is pretty damn good. All off his aerials minus Fair are good in their own right and can usually be autocanceled to lead into his ground game.
Lasers are annoying no matter who you are. Characters with projectile absorption/reflection moves still have to deal with Falco himself, who has a game outside of lasers. Even then, Falco can mix in lasers to lead off his attacks. In short, you aren't necessarily going to null anywhere close to half of the lasers a good Falco shoots out just because you have a reflector.
Btw, you can't outprioritize lasers.
I won't say that G&W isn't good, but I can't see him taking Falco's spot at all. Especially not with your current argument. Dthrow -> Dsmash isn't guaranteed by any means. Bair approaches are good overall, but it is counterable OoS (in my experiences at least). Even if it truly isn't, most characters will have a certain way of dealing with it (Marth can outspace it, Falco can laser it, etc). That doesn't make it bad, by any means, it just means that spamming/spacing bair isn't universally refutable tactic.
Unlike Falco, who generally use most of his maneuvers against the cast to some effect. Even if some floatier characters escape it, he has natural follow-ups to his dthrow that still put them at his mercy.
I think G&W is pro-er.
That is all there is to be said.
That, and Umby should join us on Skype.
(At least G&W has surpassed Falco by a nice margin in tournament rankings!)
That is all there is to be said.
That, and Umby should join us on Skype.
(At least G&W has surpassed Falco by a nice margin in tournament rankings!)
Not many people can punish repeating Bairs when they connect with your shield. It's pretty much limited to people who have dragon punches out of shield, and those fast enough to quickly get close to G&W. Marth and Metaknight fit in the first category, Sonic and Ness using his dash grab fit in the latter.
12 frames isn't abysmal at all :V. There's also the landing hitbox, which really reduces his window of punishment to 10 frames. To make a comparison, Peach's "lagless" nair and bair have 11 and 9 frames of landing lag respectively.
I think what makes his bair seem laggier than it is is the fact that it's very telegraphed, which allows you to punish that small opening because you see it coming from a mile away.
I think what makes his bair seem laggier than it is is the fact that it's very telegraphed, which allows you to punish that small opening because you see it coming from a mile away.
I think Lucas is like, the best guy. I mean come on, his up smash is one of the most powerful moves in the game!
Zero Suit Samus may be my best character...but that just my playstyle. Me and my friend would always have matches, he would use pit and I would use sonic, it would always be a toss up. But then I started using Zero suit Samus...Jeez, for some reason, he will only use pit. Except, Pit like, cannot touch Zero suit Samus. Eventually, he would get so pissed and come at me with angel ring, and I would just stun him then hit him with side-B
Oh, and what is up with Falco? He was like the best guy in melee...but then they made him suck, maybe it's just me.
Zero Suit Samus may be my best character...but that just my playstyle. Me and my friend would always have matches, he would use pit and I would use sonic, it would always be a toss up. But then I started using Zero suit Samus...Jeez, for some reason, he will only use pit. Except, Pit like, cannot touch Zero suit Samus. Eventually, he would get so pissed and come at me with angel ring, and I would just stun him then hit him with side-B
Oh, and what is up with Falco? He was like the best guy in melee...but then they made him suck, maybe it's just me.
Maybe it's more like you being a not-so-subtle troll :<
Either way, it can be punished.
There many attacks that outrange Usmash or are simply quick enough to be able to punish Lucas during the landing lag of his Usmash.
also competitive lucas mains don't rely on usmash
That's why you got last at MM14 right?
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