Dsmashes can be spammed all you want, but after the knock-back from the first one your opponent will be far enough away to come back at you. And once again all it takes is a dodge to avoid short hop aerial attacks. It is extremely predictable to attack right after the invicible start up and therefore easily evaded.
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Super Smash Bros. Brawl: Character and Tier Discussion
- Thread starter Firestorm
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So after the knockback of the first dsmash, the opponent is a good distance away. He then runs back in to punish
Only to get hit by the second dsmash, since dsmash has low lag.
Have you tried sidestepping G&W's short hop back air without using Dedede? Even if you did successfully dodge, G&W's can space it so the opponent has little opportunity to punish their almost non existant landing lag, from which they can start up the whole process again.
The opponent only runs back if they are a moron or a computer. Instead they use a projectile or aerial attack. Yes I have tried side stepping back air, and it is very successful. All it takes is a half decent approach attack to cover that space and you can do some damage, and why would you restart the whole thing if your going to end up getting hurt more?
By the time you use a projectile, G&W can shield/sidestep. By the time you short hop for an aerial (unless you're Marth or a few other characters) he'll probably do the same.
In any case, all this is still situational, and the basis of this argument is that G&W is in the placement he is because of his options and abilities. He also has a number of matchups going in his favor as well. You could discuss all day your strategies for avoiding and punishing all his attacks, but the fact is, we could very well discuss the same matters as it pertains to G&W's side of any given matchup. If you're going to use that as a basis for an argument, then we could talk about MK not being top tier just because of what Yoshi apparently does to him.
I guess that each of the characters has so many ways to counter and be countered that there are infinate arguments possible. What it really comes down to is how well these arguments pose in actuall battle.
If you consider also the skill and performance of both players, then that would apply in a given match.
However, we're currently discussing tier placement. Not a single random match.
these placement disscusions seem to turn into random match talks because people always end up trying to use a scenario.
You should probably avoid doing that.
I have done that once or twice. But yeah I should.
Why must you guys continue to feed the troll, or at least entertain the extremely... simple. Maybe it's because ALL of you are... simple. Hmm. It could be a trap. :/
Nothing to see here, folks.
I'll trade you for it! Not because I think the rank itself means anything, but because this site-vs-site thing is a waste of my time if my match is hardly worth anything way down at my own little #13. I guess I'll fight the guy if he comes bugs me to do it but I'm sure not going to put any great effort in finding him myself. *coughothertopiccough*
You just described every attack in the game, grats.
Nothing to see here, folks.
I'll trade you for it! Not because I think the rank itself means anything, but because this site-vs-site thing is a waste of my time if my match is hardly worth anything way down at my own little #13. I guess I'll fight the guy if he comes bugs me to do it but I'm sure not going to put any great effort in finding him myself. *coughothertopiccough*
You just described every attack in the game, grats.
Falco's jab. =/
Only that's a literal impossibility, because HotGarbage mains Metaknight now.
So we're pretty sure to lose that match.
M-K is a pain to fight, did ya guys know some people want him to get banned ? ;o
MK banned? Lol.
And yes, everyone is familiar with that whole fiasco.
And yes, everyone is familiar with that whole fiasco.
...
Step 1: Stop posting
Step 2: Play MrEsc
Complete those following two steps; only then will you fully realize how stupid this post and your other posts concerning G&W are.
I'd be more than happy to trade spots with you. I think it'd be better for me anyways: (1.) I certainly don't like the thought of being #1 (2.) I wouldn't want to risk that spot's battle outcome with my Puff representation. (Seriously, I have absolutely NO problem doing this.) You'll have to make sure it's okay with zerowing though. =3
So true......so VERY VERY true! x3
I think it's more because of his bad matchup vs. MK, instead of any flaw in his moveset.
Face it. Victory is MK's destiny!
I'm going to preface this by asking you to please forgive my general lack of knowledge of competitive Brawl. I haven't played competitively in nearly six months, and when I did I only used a handful of characters. So you'll have to excuse me if I say something "controversial". I'm going mostly based on memory trying to get back on track.
With that said...
Just what is so good about King Dedede? I mean, for the life of me I can't think of any useful moves aside from his chain grab, his f-tilt, his b-air, his recover move and his waddle dees. Same thing with Lucario, the only good moves I can think of are his neutral A combo, his f-tilt, his u-tilt, his force palm and his aura sphere.
With that said...
Just what is so good about King Dedede? I mean, for the life of me I can't think of any useful moves aside from his chain grab, his f-tilt, his b-air, his recover move and his waddle dees. Same thing with Lucario, the only good moves I can think of are his neutral A combo, his f-tilt, his u-tilt, his force palm and his aura sphere.
Wait a sec. You actually needed someone to answer this for you? You answered it yourself, only missing his weight, really. He can build up free damage with his CT which leads to edgeguarding with bairs and such. He has a projectile, and he survives forever. Ftilt gives him a good zoning option, as well. A DDD main could probably go into more detail, but yeah, that's pretty much the basics.
There is also his FSmash, Counter, the fact that he gets stronger the longer he survives, ALL of his aerials, and wall clinging.
DSmash and USmash, while not as easy to connect with, have good knockback. His up throw leads to combos, while his forward throw has good knockback at higher percents.
At least that's what I think makes Lucario good. If only he had a spike...
*sigh*
Yeah. Not sure if this was simply a matter of getting better with the weapons available of if there was something huge I was missing.
Dunno about the counter, since I abhor the ending lag, but I can kinda see what the uses are for the others. I guess my other issue is how weak he is at 0%. It's like he's a character that requires that you take hits in order to do more damage, as opposed to just trying to go through the match with as little damage as possible. And if you and your opponent are going through a round, racking up damage for each other, and you happen to get knocked out first, then you end up starting on your next life having to try to get your opponent down to however lives you have while being weaker than you were when you were on the verge of KOing them last life. It's as if they get some sort of small recovery item as you're KO'd. I hate being in that situation as Lucario.
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