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Super Smash Brothers Brawl Discussion #3

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needs more pokemon trainer luuuuuuuuuuuuv x3

ivysaur shits on ike like none other sorry guys

but what i do like is that even people like ike are countered by others. a sign of a balanced game's greatness. :D

except pit how the fuck do you kick his ass

what's this about "getting inside his hitbox" or something??
 
Ike's my favorite character from my favorite series, so I was intending to main him the day he was confirmed for Brawl on the DOJO. While it's a little disheartening to know that Ike could be the character that's going to be overused for his power, I'm still going to use him myself.

I do hate how I'm sure to be tossed into the group of people abusing Ike because of his strength; I'm going to an anime convention this weekend and there's going to be a large Brawl tournament that I'm going to be entering, most likely with Ike, and I'm sure I'll get a few comments like that if I happen to win.

EDIT: I know I sure as hell need practice dealing with projectile users while playing as Ike. Especially Olimar, who one of my friends is maining far too well.
 
Steeler said:
needs more pokemon trainer luuuuuuuuuuuuv x3

ivysaur shits on ike like none other sorry guys

but what i do like is that even people like ike are countered by others. a sign of a balanced game's greatness. :D

except pit how the fuck do you kick his ass

what's this about "getting inside his hitbox" or something??
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^^PLEASE READ THIS^^

Pikachu is one of my mains, and I've heard he has a VERY rough time with pit. I haven't played too many pit players, but I'd like steeler's post to be answered.
 
If any character is going to be overpowered this gen, it will be Pit. Once Ike takes over Wi-Fi and tournaments, people will start looking for a counter, and Pit will be there with his crazy arrows that hit everything.

I still have no idea how to beat Ike with arrows though. Something about the fact that my opponents like to jump over them really throws me off, and I've yet to perfect my boomerang/Fair combos with Toon Link.
 
Hustino said:
What's ironic is that, between the time of E4All and the game actually being released, everyone was saying that Ike was going to be the sole member of the 'garbage tier' while every other character would be infinitely superior.

I'm glad I stuck with him even when everyone was so absolutely sure he was horrible and useless.
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You and I need to have a battle I swear.
 
So I basically played this at my friends house the other day and it convinced me to order a wii online the very next day. I am extremely excited to start playing and from what I have heard so far Ike is a god in this game. When I was playing at my friends house I used Ike a couple of times and was impressed by his power, but I was to caught up in trying every character to actually establish a new favorite. I the end I defaulted to Marth (I love fire emblem, however I would have wanted Hector so much more than Ike). I am still waiting for my wii to arrive and am very excited to start playing this game.
 
Until I play a truly exceptional ike user, I don't think I'll be able to believe that ike would rise to be a top tier. He's certainly good, and probably high tier, but a slow character just isn't going to ever make it to the top. Faster characters can dance around him, and pretty much all of the projected top tiers have some sort of projectile or another.
 
What leafgreen says is exactly true. He'll never be top tier material unless Ken pulls another combo out of his ass and boosts Ike's abilities to the limit. The only exceptional players of Ike thus far are Ken, Azen, and Kirk. Yet we still have no idea how this will all turn out in tournaments.
 
kholdstair, i guess i could be considered a decent wolf. i can usually beat wolt, quinny, and a bunch of other smogoners.
ill put up some battle vids as soon as i get a gamebridge.
oh, and zjiin has vids of just about every character being used by Pros;
thats a place to look for good lucas/ddd/wolf.
btw, can you chase easily with ganons >B? i kinda picked up ganon a few days ago and i could get 6-7 off in a row, so it seemed to piss people off =]
 
Changed my second main to wolf, after unlocking him, he's amazing and he can camp! Although I'm a little better with Lucario.
:)
 
Cooper said:
If any character is going to be overpowered this gen, it will be Pit. Once Ike takes over Wi-Fi and tournaments, people will start looking for a counter, and Pit will be there with his crazy arrows that hit everything.

I still have no idea how to beat Ike with arrows though. Something about the fact that my opponents like to jump over them really throws me off, and I've yet to perfect my boomerang/Fair combos with Toon Link.
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Ike actually owns Pit. The Ike player just needs to get close enough to Pit to use the sword, and then Pit is dead. Ike's sword is too long for Pit to use Melee attacks but too short for Pit to use arrows or SideB effectively. And Pit's insane recovery means nothing when you fly off the top of the stage @ 70% damage.

Toon Link with Bombs actually does work, I'm just not good enough with Toon Link yet to keep it up an entire match. Large stages also help when fighting Ike, he has enough range to use the platforms on Battlefield as psuedo-shields against Toon Link.

And this really sucks for me, because one of my friends has a really mean Ike. I might pick up Wolf just to try to counter him.
 
You guys are calling way too many things broken that aren't actually broken. I also don't get the complaints against Pit. He's not that overpowered.
 
Hyra said:
Toon Link with Bombs actually does work, I'm just not good enough with Toon Link yet to keep it up an entire match. Large stages also help when fighting Ike, he has enough range to use the platforms on Battlefield as psuedo-shields against Toon Link.
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Indeed. I saw a video today that confirmed a strategy I'm working on involving bombs, which is to pull one, jump in the air to make it seem like you're going to Dair, and toss the bomb down. If your opponent dodges the bomb, you know not to Dair. If they shield, it's a judgement call. If they don't react in time and get hit, then Dair. It's really simple, but it works.
 
Hmm someone has the links to some good Ike battles where the user is Ken, Azen, or Kirk? I'd like to see them if there are any recent ones.

Ike is so powerful because all it takes is one slip up by the opponent to cost that player one stock. And if he gets top tier that will be the reason.

While Pit is really good against users with no projectile defense, he could possibly have an even bigger advantage against a lot of characters that do have projectile defense.

So far I think that Falco, Toon Link (probably normal Link as well), and Wolf have the biggest advantage against Ike at the moment.

I still have no idea how to beat Ike with arrows though. Something about the fact that my opponents like to jump over them really throws me off, and I've yet to perfect my boomerang/Fair combos with Toon Link.
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Since I'm sure you have tried jump shooting your arrows, use the fact that they will continually jump over your arrows to your advantage. If that is the way they will dodge your arrows, then formulate your plan of attack around it. Instead of them forcing your arrows to miss, force your opponent to jump over your arrows. After getting punished enough they are going to either let those arrows hit or figure out another way to dodge them.

To be honest, I haven't seen anyone use Pit in a way that he isn't easily beaten down. Pit does have weaknesses and I would probably tell those weaknesses if I didn't want to make them public =P. Least I don't have a problem against him at all xD.


You guys are calling way too many things broken that aren't actually broken. I also don't get the complaints against Pit. He's not that overpowered.
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In agreement here. As I said I don't really get most of the Pit problems. Though some of his hardest counters are probably pretty hard for most people to spot. Especially when you compare him to other characters out there. 90% of the Pit population don't even use him near close to how effective he can really be.
 
Everyone else is doing it, so I will too. My mains:

1. Falco: My main in Melee, 'nuff said
2. Lucario: Love the auto-reversal
3. Toon Link: Link is just a teeny bit slow for my liking, so Toon Link is perfect.
 
Indeed. I saw a video today that confirmed a strategy I'm working on involving bombs, which is to pull one, jump in the air to make it seem like you're going to Dair, and toss the bomb down. If your opponent dodges the bomb, you know not to Dair. If they shield, it's a judgement call. If they don't react in time and get hit, then Dair. It's really simple, but it works.
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I really think Toon Links bombs are overrated. I don't think that the strategy works effectively against people who know his moveset. They take a second to pull out and create a bit of lag after the toss. Not to mention they are extremely linear and predictable.
 
~~EpiC~~ said:
I really think Toon Links bombs are overrated. I don't think that the strategy works effectively against people who know his moveset. They take a second to pull out and create a bit of lag after the toss. Not to mention they are extremely linear and predictable.
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As is his Dair. The point of throwing a bomb first is to catch someone off guard or give yourself some time to land without getting hit by something.
 
Ike is so powerful because all it takes is one slip up by the opponent to cost that player one stock. And if he gets top tier that will be the reason.
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See: melee ganondorf

Four hits and you're dead. That's pretty much how things went against a ganon. And yet, ganon was only slightly ahead of the middle of the pack, placed at #12.

Any of the characters projected to be top tier also have ways to punish mistakes, be it combos or insane smashes... or both. Ike can kill early, but he suffers from a lot of startup and lag on his moves in general, making it so really the only way he can compete in the first place is by punishing mistakes.
 
Are there any other pikachu mains besides thunderpup and myself here? I'd also love to know some sort of reliable strategy for dealing with pit.

Fun fact: pikachu's skull bash cancels projectiles (awesome for getting back on stage against zelda's din fire spam). Do you think this could be used to approach pit in any way, or is it too slow for the arrows?
 
i won't be able to get braw; for ages but it's obviously my top want nand i've checked the roster and i've decided who i will be using

1. Captain Falcon

i always used him on melee and falcon punch is the best as you can uppercut them first and charge the punch

2. Meta knight

this guy looks great. i saw a video of him and he was pwning whoever he was facing.

3. Sonic

apparently a faster version of captain falcon so i thought i'd be using him quite a bit

4. Lucario

easily my favourite pokemon from the roster. the trainer looks crap. his moves seem ok but when i get really good and i won't take much damage then aura sphere will be quite weak but he is still quite cool

EDIT: i've been reading a few posts and found stuff about tiers. So, can someone tell me who the best people are please
 
xc_hawk said:
Are there any other pikachu mains besides thunderpup and myself here? I'd also love to know some sort of reliable strategy for dealing with pit.

Fun fact: pikachu's skull bash cancels projectiles (awesome for getting back on stage against zelda's din fire spam). Do you think this could be used to approach pit in any way, or is it too slow for the arrows?
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I've only said I was a pika main numerous times in every brawl thread? Also, the QAC would probably be a far better approach for pit than skull bash, which just kinda... sucks. Interesting on the projectile thing, though.
 
Cooper said:
As is his Dair. The point of throwing a bomb first is to catch someone off guard or give yourself some time to land without getting hit by something.
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Well that was my point, that against the people who you'd want it to connect against most it would probably end up just being used in order to judge your attack plan. I can see it being useful every now and again, but not used more than a few times. Might be really useful against Lucas and Ivysaur though. I was saying it was really limited because most of the times this has been used against me it worked out in my favor.

See: melee ganondorf

Four hits and you're dead. That's pretty much how things went against a ganon. And yet, ganon was only slightly ahead of the middle of the pack, placed at #12.

Any of the characters projected to be top tier also have ways to punish mistakes, be it combos or insane smashes... or both. Ike can kill early, but he suffers from a lot of startup and lag on his moves in general, making it so really the only way he can compete in the first place is by punishing mistakes.
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True, but don't you think connecting those with ganon a bit harder than connecting one of the many kill moves Ike has? Ike's B moveset is really useful in general and he comes coupled with Invincibility Frames and a counter, as well. And he does have a quick move or two.

I'm not saying he is top tier, but I'm saying that it is a possibility that Ike could take it.
I'm curious though, who do you expect to take over top tier during the early tournament scene?
 
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