Super Smash Brothers Brawl Discussion #3

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I see a big deal because I'm the one winning with Pit. No one else in my Smash Group plays Pit except for me, and Pit's arrows are one of the most important things for me to keep up. Don't assume that I'm complaing about other people: I'm complaining about my Pit style. I mean, at least Falco had to work to spam in Melee... short hops and all... but Pit can just stand there and curve arrows at people who even attempt to approach him. Aerial Dodges are met with Pit's Aerial attacks or a well timed Smash Attack. Bad design IMO.

I don't even plan to main Pit. I'm simply using Pit right now to learn how to beat Pit (or should I say... to "encourage" my friends to figure out better strategies for taking Pit on).

I do believe that Pit may be outcamped after looking at Toon Link and Rob videos... but that just makes me feel worse about this game...
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Oh boy oh boy! Pit discussion in the works.

I see, but there are a ton of characters that should not be having too much of a problem with Pit's Arrows. I'll list a few: Mario, Link, TL, Fox, G&W, Zelda, Falco, Meta Knight, Squirtle, Yoshi, D3, Ness, Lucas, Wario, Jigglypuff, Wolf. Probably could add Sonic (speed) as well. That's 17 characters. Though I should add that I firmly believe that Pit has a greater advantage against people with reflectors/absorbers if and only if the Pit user is really good.

Heck, Pikachu should also make it very hard for him to, as well, since Arrows come with a decent amount of delay and can be punished. Kirby shouldn't be to bad off either with his multiple jumps. A few characters simply out range Pit close range; Ike, Meta Knight and Link and ZSS are four that come to mind.

Pit can be outcamped overall by a few characters as well. Wolf, ROB, and Snake are three that come to mind.

He can be outcamped in a battle by Zelda and most probably TL and Link.

Pit can only curve his arrows to a certain degree and when a character approaches Mid range it becomes impossible to curve an arrow upward into someone. Let's not mention that curving arrows is already hard. How many people can honestly say they can almost always curve an arrow into a person no matter where they are on the stage?

I think there are a decent amount of characters that are inherently better overall and have more potential than Pit right now, as well. Olimar, Luigi, TL, Lucas, Pikachu, and Diddy are six that come to mind so far.

Ok, now I'm just stating random things about Pit lol. Even though I didn't plan on doing so, I'll post a guide about what I see Pit's weaknesses to be, how to spot a good Pit and a bad one, and what characters I feel have advantages over Pit and why/how as well as some useful strategies against him. But that's only if you want one =/
 
Are you aware that Pit can shoot his arrows straight up and then curve his arrows right and then down to cover that area where he can no longer curve his arrows "up" ?

Well yeah, post the guide. I'm unsure why you think Mario et. cetra. have an advantage over Pit... but I think the guide will clear that up.
 
A few of those on the list Epic posted don't seem right, but it is pretty damn easy for Mario to stop nearly every camper besides Snake. And I don't see how R.O.B. and Wolf can out-camp Pit at all.
 
Mario can approach Pit because his cape reflects arrows and if he capes Side B or neutral A then you get a free Smash Attack in.

Are you aware that Pit can shoot his arrows straight up and then curve his arrows right and then down to cover that area where he can no longer curve his arrows "up" ?
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Actually, I was speaking from the perspective of someone coming in from the air. There is a deadzone that Pit can not hit with his arrows.

And I don't see how R.O.B. and Wolf can out-camp Pit at all.
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Well, I meant to say from an overall perspective in relation to their performance against the entire cast overall compared to Pit's, not a 1v1 with Pit.

R.O.B. because his laser has more knock back and stun than Pit's arrows. He also has a rather useful Gyro projectile to add in with that. His Side B also reflects like Pit's and his Up B is much better than Pit's Up B in terms of recovery and spacing as it isn't as slow or risky and he can aerial UpB aerial Up B and use it sparingly to recover. Pit's Up B is easily Gimped.

As for Wolf, mostly because his laser has more knockback and stun. If you get hit by it close range it pushes you much further back and stuns you as well. His side Smash has a ridiculous range and he has two great spacing moves at his disposal. And he has a reflector.



As for the rest of the people I posted, here's why (though I didn't necessarily say they had an advantage, just that they shouldn't be having much of a problem with arrows).

Sonic has amazing speed. You could get off all of what, one arrow before he's close range?
Squirtle has withdraw which is great for approaching and turns you invulnerable. He has water gun. He is extremely hard to hit because he is so small. Can crouch under linear arrows and has a massive air game with tons of priority.
Meta Knights Neutral B overrides all of Pits moves. He has multiple jumps and his sword out ranges Pit's weapon. He also has a glide.
Wario has his bike.
Yoshi has his flutter Jump.
Zelda, Wolf, Fox, and Falco all have offensive/defensive reflectors.
G&W gets a huge buff against Pit's projectiles.
Ness and Lucas recover HP from his arrows.
TL and Link have a shield that stops projectiles. They also have bombs, boomerangs (one of which will either push Pit back or bring him close) and arrows. Actually they can force Pit to use his shield instead of arrows.
D3 has waddledies that stop projectiles and multiple jumps.
Jigglypuff is small, has a massive air game, is very floaty and moves with a lot of priority. She can simple approach from the air.
For Pikachu, if Pit uses his arrows and Pika jumps up and uses Thundershock, it is almost impossible to shield the thundershock. He does have QAC, skull bash, and can duck under linear arrows.

I'm not so sure about Kirby since I haven't actually used Pit against him, but technically his small size and multiple jumps should make it hard. Plus his Wind Cutter is great to force an action besides arrows.

Err I think that was everyone I listed.
 
Omg I was playing with Lucas and I don't know if anyone found this out but his Psi Magnet does damage and KOs at the end when his bubble goes away! Its sooo cool! If I'm the first person to find this I am sooo naming it the Kristy smash. >:D
 
Omg I was playing with Lucas and I don't know if anyone found this out but his Psi Magnet does damage and KOs at the end when his bubble goes away! Its sooo cool! If I'm the first person to find this I am sooo naming it the Kristy smash. >:D
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Sorry to break your bubble (joke not intended), but it's been known before.
 
Interesting but most likely useless facts:

1. When Kirby copys Capt. Falcon's move and use it in the air, he lifted up into the air a good jump or two in height.

2. Aerials really needs priorities =[

3. Losing to a battle because of item spammers and lighting bolt gimping up your recover really, really, really hurts your self-esteem.
 
I was going to post something really insightful about the camping problem, but forgot what it was....

How do you get the trophy stands in Subspace when fighting bosses? I've fought all of them at least twice, and the only time I saw one was against Duon, and sadly he pushed it off the stage.... Is it random, or do I trigger it somehow?
 
haha, kristy, people have already discovered a superjump with lucas, i think they would discover a basic mechanic of lucas, which IIRC is included in the dojo description for lucas.

in other news, wolf definately outcamps pit from my experience. i have played a multitude of pit players, the majority of them were great players. the others were people trying to prove a point by counter picking pit to my wolf =/. i havent lost to a pit yet, but i know for a fact if i find a really good pit player he will beat me, but anybody playing well can beat me, look at yoshiking. he can beat the majority of us with yoshi.

i think that we should try to look at the brighter side of brawl, all this stuff about why the game will be so based on camping and all that is stupid. it's still competetive. its going to take a good player to win.
you guys may think ike is the best pickup character (which he is), but we are only going to see 1-2 PRO ikes. hopefully from ken or mew2king.

i'll name the brightsided of brawl.
camping can be countered, it is just the easiest method of winning right now so we can't really say that the game will be based on it so early on.
we have online play, so alot of us will get better, faster, with more productivity.
with more chances to play people above our level so we can have better players.

oh and also, we are so farking stupid as to finding all these advanced techniques that we arent even looking at the basics of brawl. i say if brawl will fail it will be because the community has failed it.

i want to hear it from you guys though.
 
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aahahhhahahahha
 
maybe all the people who get beat by campers and just need to learn how to counter it are the ones complaining that this will is a bad game and it will revolve around camping.
 
dark-war-cloud said:
maybe all the people who get beat by campers and just need to learn how to counter it are the ones complaining that this will is a bad game and it will revolve around camping.
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I don't know about that. Some very talented and pro-Brawl smashers are stating that, not just whiney scrubs. Btw, I wasn't saying anything by posting that, I just thought it was hilarious.

Btw, any former Peach Melee mains in here? I'm curious to see who you guys are using now..... Peach kinda sucks in Brawl :[[[[
 
HotGarbage said:
I don't know about that. Some very talented and pro-Brawl smashers are stating that, not just whiney scrubs. Btw, I wasn't saying anything by posting that, I just thought it was hilarious.

Btw, any former Peach Melee mains in here? I'm curious to see who you guys are using now..... Peach kinda sucks in Brawl :[[[[
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Floaty Peaches are a bitch to kill. Trust me, replace Spam D-Smash woth Spam Float and you'll be set. I got owned so hard by that.
 
ohh, otay, i thought you were serious.
gimpy is just mad because bowser isnt as usable because of no l-cancels. but his fair is amazing because it can be SHC'd (short hop canceled. see my video on it).
 
Well, I wasn't pro-Peach or anything back in Melee, but she was my "secondary" or whatever one would call it. I still use her, but I agree with the notion that Peach has definitely been nerfed quite a bit.
 
Deck Knight said:
Floaty Peaches are a bitch to kill. Trust me, replace Spam D-Smash woth Spam Float and you'll be set. I got owned so hard by that.
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Really ?______? I've actually felt that her aerial game took a huge hit with the new uber defenses. For an example, In Melee her fair was a fairly safe move because even if the opponent shielded they would get pushed back too far to shield grab. In Brawl they can just shield grab the living crap out of you ;__; I suppose I should try and use her dair more.... I've found it very difficult to approach campers/people who run away with her.... I'll keep at it for the time being though, as my floating still hasn't adjusted from Melee I don't think.


dark-war-cloud said:
ohh, otay, i thought you were serious.
gimpy is just mad because bowser isnt as usable because of no l-cancels. but his fair is amazing because it can be SHC'd (short hop canceled. see my video on it).
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I'm almost positive he's maining Metaknight now actually. It's kinda discouraging to see guys like Gimpy, M2K, and Cort say bad things about Brawl though :/. Especially Gimpy, who has been a huge advocate for Brawl. Personally I'm going to keep playing and make up my own mind though. And in other news, after reading some interviews I've come to the conclusion that Sakurai is a phenomenal idiot.
 
Guys, please don't ever say Sakurai is an idiot. The man set out to make an amazing game that suits his dream: A fun party game that everyone can pick up and play. I would say he succeeded spectacularly, nomatter what people say the game is a commercial and critical success. It's a Nintendo fan's dream game, and it's also just goddamn fun.

To be honest I'm just really getting tired of competitive elitists (that's not directed at anyone here), I don't feel like going into reasons why but it should be self-explanatory.
 
just because you can't effectively combo from 0-60% and gimp kill at 20% doesn't mean there won't be a competitive scene or players that are clearly better than all others.

yoshi king is a nice example!!

reading those posts in the gimpy thread kind of pissed me off. :\ they are just too used to immaculate combos and racking up damage in bunches, methinks.

regardless, i'm quite glad that the game came out the way it did. it opens opportunities up for a lot more players. but i stress that almost all of these new players won't be as good as the people that have been playing melee competitively, especially right off the bat. the learning curve has flattened, but that doesn't mean there still isn't a learning curve, and that doesn't mean that all of a sudden the best at brawl are going to be losing or getting serious challenges from new, casual players. i believe there will still be a strong competitive scene, if anything STRONGER than melee's. sure, it won't be as tight-knit due to the fact that it's both bigger and less exclusive (lol wavedashing), but that also means more competition and more opportunities to improve. or something like that.

either that or this is all just a bunch of bullshit and i don't know what i'm talking about

disclaimer
 
dark-war-cloud said:
why is sakurai an idiot?
oh, and gimpy is using metaknight BECAUSE he can't use bowser. bowser is even worse now =/, IMO.
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Actually, though I know not too much concerning Gimpyfish, one thing that I know for sure about him is that he's maining Meta Knight because he was Gimpyfish's most wanted newcomer and, as a character, his favorite in the roster.

So far, I much prefer Brawl to Melee in nearly every sort of way. I agree with both Yoshi King and Steeler's posts.
 
I don't know about you guys, but even with the lag, the ability to fight actual human beings instead of crappy comps from just about anywhere in a several thousand mile radius makes Brawl one of the best games ever created.
 
Guys, please don't ever say Sakurai is an idiot. The man set out to make an amazing game that suits his dream: A fun party game that everyone can pick up and play. I would say he succeeded spectacularly, nomatter what people say the game is a commercial and critical success. It's a Nintendo fan's dream game, and it's also just goddamn fun.

To be honest I'm just really getting tired of competitive elitists (that's not directed at anyone here), I don't feel like going into reasons why but it should be self-explanatory.
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I would be inclined to agree to you... if it weren't for the fact that Sakurai apparently has thrown Tripping in there for no ****ing reason at all. It annoys me when I win because my opponent tripped (I'm unsure whether I deserved that win), and it annoys me when I lose because I feel like the game cheated on me. It is a lose-lose situation and I have yet to find someone convince me that there is any benefit to tripping.

No doubt, I find Brawl very fun to play. However, little things like that just piss me off.
 
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