Format Discussion Super Staff Bros 4 Discussion Thread

[HiZo]

Winrate time baybeeeeeeee

Getting Buffed: Segmr, tiki, kipkluif, cake, SectoniaServant

Getting Nerfed: ckil, Drampa’s Grandpa, Piloswine Gripado, KingSwordYT, Paradise, DragonWhale, Rach

Actual buffs/nerfs subject to change.

big table

Rank	Pokemon	Winrate	Games	Wins
1​	Yveltal	0.6307​	325​	205​
2​	Drampa	0.6012​	311​	187​
3​	Piloswine	0.584​	339​	198​
4​	Pangoro	0.584​	327​	191​
5​	Slaking	0.5784​	325​	188​
6​	Mimikyu	0.5778​	289​	167​
7​	Spinda	0.574​	324​	186​
8​	Zygarde	0.5623​	313​	176​
9​	Spectrier	0.5611​	319​	179​
10​	Ludicolo	0.5608​	296​	166​
11​	Leafeon	0.5540999999999999​	323​	179​
12​	Zapdos	0.5518​	299​	165​
13​	Aegislash	0.5509000000000001​	314​	173​
14​	Garchomp	0.5508​	354​	195​
15​	Tapu Fini	0.5498​	331​	182​
16​	Lapras-Gmax	0.5471​	318​	174​
17​	Dodrio	0.5463​	313​	171​
18​	Bisharp	0.5445​	292​	159​
19​	Grimmsnarl	0.5428000000000001​	315​	171​
20​	Absol	0.5357999999999999​	293​	157​
21​	Gengar	0.5355​	295​	158​
22​	Dragapult	0.5337​	311​	166​
23​	Shaymin	0.5304​	345​	183​
24​	Lampent	0.5302​	298​	158​
25​	Latios	0.5302​	298​	158​
26​	Tauros	0.529​	327​	173​
27​	Mantine	0.5287​	348​	184​
28​	Oricorio-Pom-Pom	0.5268​	279​	147​
29​	Quagsire	0.525​	320​	168​
30​	Venusaur	0.5245000000000001​	305​	160​
31​	Celebi	0.5236​	317​	166​
32​	Lotad	0.5228​	306​	160​
33​	Naviathan	0.5221​	293​	153​
34​	Typhlosion	0.5209​	286​	149​
35​	Uxie	0.5206000000000001​	290​	151​
36​	Munchlax	0.5191​	314​	163​
37​	Garbodor	0.5165​	333​	172​
38​	Jigglypuff	0.5126​	316​	162​
39​	Glastrier	0.5111​	315​	161​
40​	Rayquaza	0.5092​	324​	165​
41​	Necrozma-Dawn-Wings	0.5088​	281​	143​
42​	Carbink	0.5083​	301​	153​
43​	Flygon	0.5081​	305​	155​
44​	Meloetta	0.508​	309​	157​
45​	Mismagius	0.5079​	315​	160​
46​	Hippowdon	0.5064​	308​	156​
47​	Lopunny	0.5063​	316​	160​
48​	Aurorus	0.5062​	318​	161​
49​	Pichu	0.505​	299​	151​
50​	Nosepass	0.5049​	305​	154​
51​	Pikachu-Cosplay	0.5042​	353​	178​
52​	Phantump	0.5038​	260​	131​
53​	Rhydon	0.5033​	298​	150​
54​	Minior-Meteor	0.5017​	281​	141​
55​	Volcarona	0.5015​	315​	158​
56​	Sneasel	0.5​	330​	165​
57​	Camerupt	0.4984​	327​	163​
58​	Dragonite	0.49689999999999995​	332​	165​
59​	Gyarados	0.49689999999999995​	332​	165​
60​	Mew	0.4968​	322​	160​
61​	Cosmog	0.49340000000000006​	306​	151​
62​	Volcanion	0.49329999999999996​	300​	148​
63​	Latias	0.4932​	298​	147​
64​	Furret	0.4929​	282​	139​
65​	Hoopa	0.4925​	270​	133​
66​	Jellicent	0.4917​	303​	149​
67​	Klefki	0.49119999999999997​	287​	141​
68​	Mr. Rime	0.491​	279​	137​
69​	Unown	0.4907​	269​	132​
70​	Kingdra	0.4893​	329​	161​
71​	Stonjourner	0.489​	321​	157​
72​	Azelf	0.4882​	297​	145​
73​	Froslass	0.4876​	324​	158​
74​	Pancham	0.4875​	320​	156​
75​	Toxtricity	0.4874​	318​	155​
76​	Aggron	0.48700000000000004​	310​	151​
77​	Chandelure	0.4864​	296​	144​
78​	Riolu	0.4858​	317​	154​
79​	Archeops	0.4852​	272​	132​
80​	Alcremie	0.4851​	336​	163​
81​	Xurkitree	0.4841​	347​	168​
82​	Stoutland	0.48310000000000003​	327​	158​
83​	Mewtwo	0.48229999999999995​	311​	150​
84​	Lycanroc	0.4803​	331​	159​
85​	Honchkrow	0.4802​	304​	146​
86​	Beedrill	0.48009999999999997​	327​	157​
87​	Audino	0.4797​	346​	166​
88​	Cinderace	0.47909999999999997​	288​	138​
89​	Darmanitan-Zen	0.479​	286​	137​
90​	Nidoking	0.4775​	312​	149​
91​	Weedle	0.47409999999999997​	310​	147​
92​	Shedinja	0.4731​	298​	141​
93​	Polteageist	0.4725​	328​	155​
94​	Forretress	0.4719​	339​	160​
95​	Charizard	0.4717​	301​	142​
96​	Weezing-Galar	0.4715​	316​	149​
97​	Duraludon	0.47130000000000005​	297​	140​
98​	Snorlax	0.47119999999999995​	331​	156​
99​	Keldeo-Resolute	0.47090000000000004​	293​	138​
100​	Shiinotic	0.46950000000000003​	328​	154​
101​	Mareanie	0.4689​	322​	151​
102​	Lucario	0.4682​	331​	155​
103​	Litwick	0.46759999999999996​	263​	123​
104​	Palpitoad	0.4672​	321​	150​
105​	Kartana	0.46509999999999996​	316​	147​
106​	Gardevoir	0.46409999999999996​	265​	123​
107​	Wingull	0.4571​	280​	128​
108​	Espeon	0.4548​	332​	151​
109​	Roserade	0.44409999999999994​	331​	147​
110​	Misdreavus	0.4436​	293​	130​
111​	Hattrem	0.44329999999999997​	309​	137​
112​	Kirlia	0.4338​	295​	128​
113​	Jirachi	0.43270000000000003​	305​	132​
114​	Orbeetle	0.428​	285​	122​
115​	Zekrom	0.4229​	305​	129​
116​	Runerigus	0.41960000000000003​	305​	128​
117​	Dunsparce	0.4156​	320​	133​
118​	Snom	0.414​	314​	130​
119​	Reuniclus	0.4012​	314​	126​
120​	Gossifleur	0.3961​	308​	122​

 

[OM]

Ok I'm starting to think y'all are capping when u say my mon sucks

 

[PartMan]

What how are people losing with Chandelure



Guys c'mon it's not that hard

 

[Perish Song]

Perish Song is decent, if underwhelming compared to the other mons in the tier, but why is Trickery 85% accurate. There's no reason you should miss Trickery this often. You only get one good hit in most of the time, if that. If this is fixed, he would move up to the 'could use a buff' tier, where I would recommend Trickery hitting flying types, allowing you to use it with impunity, or adding an eviolite (or eviolite + helmet custom item or something) just for better tanking. At the moment, Perish Song can get worn down reasonably easily by the likes of HoeenHero, Aethernum, and Zodiax's hurricanes, which are pokémon this Rhydon should hard wall.

Ngl I agree

 

[Arby]

Top 100 Babyyyyyyyyy

 

[PartMan]

Top 77 WOOO

 

[deftinwolf]

Nerfing the lord of darkness may result in your doom. Just saying.

 

[RaJ.Shoot]

95

 

[Andy Snype]

Nerfing the lord of darkness may result in your doom. Just saying.

pls you have a higher winrate than i did

 

[deftinwolf]

pls you have a higher winrate than i did

Can't help that it's just better than yours in every way.

 

[Andy Snype]

Can't help that it's just better than yours in every way.

pls you're at the top after i took a handicap to make it easier for you

 

[deftinwolf]

pls you're at the top after i took a handicap to make it easier for you

Permission to attack Andrew, someone?

Irpa edit: conceeded

 

[Jett]

perfection

 

[nui]

 

[HiZo]

View attachment 319613

View attachment 319614

lol

Anyways QC decided the cutoffs for both ends of the modification train.

You're getting nerfed if you have a 0.57 WR or above.

You're getting buffed if you have a 0.420000 WR or below.

other changes may be made at QC discretion.

 

[deftinwolf]

lol

Anyways QC decided the cutoffs for both ends of the modification train.

You're getting nerfed if you have a 0.57 WR or above.

You're getting buffed if you have a 0.420000 WR or below.

other changes may be made at QC discretion.

So I'm good right.

 

[Enderevilherobrine]

Getting Nerfed: ckil, Drampa’s Grandpa, Piloswine Gripado, Pangoro, Paradise, DragonWhale, Rach

Ah yes my favorite staff member Pangoro.

------

Not certain if this is a bug or not, but Big Bang doesn't seem to work on the Steel Type Stealth Rocks.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8superstaffbros4-1291698148-miz5gk4rywri1wa6j3qy573dvegact0pw

 

[Musite]

Ok I'm starting to think y'all are capping when u say my mon sucks

It's not bad. I've always said it's good.

Winrate time baybeeeeeeee

Getting Buffed: Segmr, tiki, kipkluif, cake, SectoniaServant

Getting Nerfed: ckil, Drampa’s Grandpa, Piloswine Gripado, KingSwordYT, Paradise, DragonWhale, Rach

Actual buffs/nerfs subject to change.

big table

Rank	Pokemon	Winrate	Games	Wins
1	Yveltal	0.6307	325	205
2	Drampa	0.6012	311	187
3	Piloswine	0.584	339	198
4	Pangoro	0.584	327	191
5	Slaking	0.5784	325	188
6	Mimikyu	0.5778	289	167
7	Spinda	0.574	324	186
8	Zygarde	0.5623	313	176
9	Spectrier	0.5611	319	179
10	Ludicolo	0.5608	296	166
11	Leafeon	0.5540999999999999	323	179
12	Zapdos	0.5518	299	165
13	Aegislash	0.5509000000000001	314	173
14	Garchomp	0.5508	354	195
15	Tapu Fini	0.5498	331	182
16	Lapras-Gmax	0.5471	318	174
17	Dodrio	0.5463	313	171
18	Bisharp	0.5445	292	159
19	Grimmsnarl	0.5428000000000001	315	171
20	Absol	0.5357999999999999	293	157
21	Gengar	0.5355	295	158
22	Dragapult	0.5337	311	166
23	Shaymin	0.5304	345	183
24	Lampent	0.5302	298	158
25	Latios	0.5302	298	158
26	Tauros	0.529	327	173
27	Mantine	0.5287	348	184
28	Oricorio-Pom-Pom	0.5268	279	147
29	Quagsire	0.525	320	168
30	Venusaur	0.5245000000000001	305	160
31	Celebi	0.5236	317	166
32	Lotad	0.5228	306	160
33	Naviathan	0.5221	293	153
34	Typhlosion	0.5209	286	149
35	Uxie	0.5206000000000001	290	151
36	Munchlax	0.5191	314	163
37	Garbodor	0.5165	333	172
38	Jigglypuff	0.5126	316	162
39	Glastrier	0.5111	315	161
40	Rayquaza	0.5092	324	165
41	Necrozma-Dawn-Wings	0.5088	281	143
42	Carbink	0.5083	301	153
43	Flygon	0.5081	305	155
44	Meloetta	0.508	309	157
45	Mismagius	0.5079	315	160
46	Hippowdon	0.5064	308	156
47	Lopunny	0.5063	316	160
48	Aurorus	0.5062	318	161
49	Pichu	0.505	299	151
50	Nosepass	0.5049	305	154
51	Pikachu-Cosplay	0.5042	353	178
52	Phantump	0.5038	260	131
53	Rhydon	0.5033	298	150
54	Minior-Meteor	0.5017	281	141
55	Volcarona	0.5015	315	158
56	Sneasel	0.5	330	165
57	Camerupt	0.4984	327	163
58	Dragonite	0.49689999999999995	332	165
59	Gyarados	0.49689999999999995	332	165
60	Mew	0.4968	322	160
61	Cosmog	0.49340000000000006	306	151
62	Volcanion	0.49329999999999996	300	148
63	Latias	0.4932	298	147
64	Furret	0.4929	282	139
65	Hoopa	0.4925	270	133
66	Jellicent	0.4917	303	149
67	Klefki	0.49119999999999997	287	141
68	Mr. Rime	0.491	279	137
69	Unown	0.4907	269	132
70	Kingdra	0.4893	329	161
71	Stonjourner	0.489	321	157
72	Azelf	0.4882	297	145
73	Froslass	0.4876	324	158
74	Pancham	0.4875	320	156
75	Toxtricity	0.4874	318	155
76	Aggron	0.48700000000000004	310	151
77	Chandelure	0.4864	296	144
78	Riolu	0.4858	317	154
79	Archeops	0.4852	272	132
80	Alcremie	0.4851	336	163
81	Xurkitree	0.4841	347	168
82	Stoutland	0.48310000000000003	327	158
83	Mewtwo	0.48229999999999995	311	150
84	Lycanroc	0.4803	331	159
85	Honchkrow	0.4802	304	146
86	Beedrill	0.48009999999999997	327	157
87	Audino	0.4797	346	166
88	Cinderace	0.47909999999999997	288	138
89	Darmanitan-Zen	0.479	286	137
90	Nidoking	0.4775	312	149
91	Weedle	0.47409999999999997	310	147
92	Shedinja	0.4731	298	141
93	Polteageist	0.4725	328	155
94	Forretress	0.4719	339	160
95	Charizard	0.4717	301	142
96	Weezing-Galar	0.4715	316	149
97	Duraludon	0.47130000000000005	297	140
98	Snorlax	0.47119999999999995	331	156
99	Keldeo-Resolute	0.47090000000000004	293	138
100	Shiinotic	0.46950000000000003	328	154
101	Mareanie	0.4689	322	151
102	Lucario	0.4682	331	155
103	Litwick	0.46759999999999996	263	123
104	Palpitoad	0.4672	321	150
105	Kartana	0.46509999999999996	316	147
106	Gardevoir	0.46409999999999996	265	123
107	Wingull	0.4571	280	128
108	Espeon	0.4548	332	151
109	Roserade	0.44409999999999994	331	147
110	Misdreavus	0.4436	293	130
111	Hattrem	0.44329999999999997	309	137
112	Kirlia	0.4338	295	128
113	Jirachi	0.43270000000000003	305	132
114	Orbeetle	0.428	285	122
115	Zekrom	0.4229	305	129
116	Runerigus	0.41960000000000003	305	128
117	Dunsparce	0.4156	320	133
118	Snom	0.414	314	130
119	Reuniclus	0.4012	314	126
120	Gossifleur	0.3961	308	122

I think Kip is actually fairly strong, despite what the winrates may say, it can cheese out many mons by itself and the priority helps force mons into situations where they HAVE to tank the switch. Teleport would actually be very interesting on Kip personally, it could help bait things like opposing Teleports and U-Turn, while making switches safe and getting off the Degenerator at the same time, Kip's biggest struggle, aside from being unable to stall things to death, is pp.

 

[Discordual]

pls you're at the top after i took a handicap to make it easier for you

If it helps, I think you're still completely busted. The only reason you aren't higher in winrates is because you're stopped pretty easily by normal types, but if there isn't a normal type on the opposing team, you steamroll mercilessly. Ckil is hard to deal with, and certainly very good, but doesn't automatically steamroll teams.

 

[Get Éclaired]

Btw, are the winrates based on all games or only on "higher" ladder games? Imo kipkluif isn't the worst mon in the tier (either sectonia or naziel imo), and piloswine is not the 3rd best mon in the tier (although still pretty good).

 

[HiZo]

Btw, are the winrates based on all games or only on "higher" ladder games? Imo kipkluif isn't the worst mon in the tier (either sectonia or naziel imo), and piloswine is not the 3rd best mon in the tier (although still pretty good).

All games from 1100 onwards. So the data we recorded is those who at least know what SSB4 is at the least. The reason we don't measure higher is because the SSB4 ladder isn't that high in the first place.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

the SSB4 ladder isn't that high in the first place.

I wouldn't count on that
...
If we're nerfing Drampa could it be removal of some coverage moves? I really never cared much about those they were just convenient.

Otherwise the ability stands out as the easiest thing to nerf. Just don't touch GET OFF MY LAWN!!! please.

 

[HiZo]

If we're nerfing Drampa could it be removal of some coverage moves? I really never cared much about those they were just convenient.

Otherwise the ability stands out as the easiest thing to nerf. Just don't touch GET OFF MY LAWN!!! please.

Unfortunately for you, it seems like what we're gonna do is just nick a feature of GET OFF MY LAWN, mostly because we already have an unusually excessive amounts of "phasepivots". So I would remove the self switch aspect of the move. Besides that its fine as is.

I am willing to compromise, though, DM me on discord if you have better alternatives

 

[Get Éclaired]

All games from 1100 onwards. So the data we recorded is those who at least know what SSB4 is at the least. The reason we don't measure higher is because the SSB4 ladder isn't that high in the first place.

Beowulf's winrate being lower than 50% would tell you otherwise
On another note, how is your (INStruct) mon's winrate calculated?
EDIT: To clarify, does it count winning on the side it was originally on (before satanic panic) or the side it has been sent to afterwards?

 

[HiZo]

Beowulf's winrate being lower than 50% would tell you otherwise
On another note, how is your (INStruct) mon's winrate calculated?
EDIT: To clarify, does it count winning on the side it was originally on (before satanic panic) or the side it has been sent to afterwards?

1) lol. I mean I personally dont find beowulf broken, and it was 51% last time so its position in the metagame actually hasn't changed much.
2) Im not sure actually, though for programming sake I'll probably reverse my change and go another route at buffing.