Just going to add, apparently people don't know how to use gossifleur, because from my understanding it walls pretty well outside of passive damage, partially due to its general gimmick, but also partially due to the fact that its endure move can be used multiple times in a row.
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Format Discussion Super Staff Bros 4 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter HiZo
- Start date
I don't think it's broken, but it's a lot better than the win rates suggest. +1 adaptability off of 150 base attack, along with an excellent speed tier means that it hits like a truck. I believe the reason it has a lower win rate than I would expect is because I see people click buzz inspection far too much, far too early. Often I'll see people bring in Beowulf, mega evolve, then buzz inspect straight away, almost halving their power in the process.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8superstaffbros4-1292809107
Full Zodiax 6-0 sweep. Zodiax busted????
Full Zodiax 6-0 sweep. Zodiax busted????
Yeah, Beowulf's set in SSB4 isn't too different from in SSBB (although def a downgrade), where he was... pretty good to say the least. In SSB4, the attack boost is guaranteed (no download/speed boost shenanigans), but the trade off is a large decrease in consistency, despite the gimmick of buzz inspect. Although buzz inspect isn't terrible due to mbdrill being a ridiculous glass cannon with some inconsistency issues, I personally miss having a consistent hard hitting stab move (buzzing of the swarm). Then again, SSB4 has less ridiculous mons in general than SSBB, so the current Beowulf is probably in a good place.
make buzz inspect add compound eyes as another ability rather than overriding the current ability
I'm surprised Uxie isn't higher, considering how impossible it is to kill. Very few things can one-shot it unboosted, while Rigged Dice makes it impossible to set up on and triggers Regenerator. More often than not you find yourself with literally no way to kill it, much like Carbink. You need either something that can deal massive damage to it without setup or a Magic Bounce user.
Pretty sure that's what it does unless it changed since I've been in some instances where its damage output didn't change after using buzz inspection (without the intrepid sword +1 ofc)
Found an interesting mechanic where if data corruption hits a choice locked mon the choice item resets and allows you to select a new move.
That or V-create was in the moveslot and the system just rolled with it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8superstaffbros4-1294062633
That or V-create was in the moveslot and the system just rolled with it.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8superstaffbros4-1294062633
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Not sure if bug or feature
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8superstaffbros4-1294577485-h2zljjepqhyh6xhsmjrumiquud386bxpw
Replay if wanted
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8superstaffbros4-1294577485-h2zljjepqhyh6xhsmjrumiquud386bxpw
Replay if wanted
Sorta a bug, but cant be fixed. satanic panic fucks with your team by removing one poke from your team and switching with another of theirs. So it looks like you have 7 pokes but really its just 6 - 1.
How dare you break the game.
BALANCE
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8superstaffbros4-1294751346
Idea: replace the specs with a scarf. Andrew gets a more solid niche as being extremely fast and still hitting decently hard (and also still able to use Trick to cripple walls), but without being obscenely strong.
Edit: I did some calcs out of curiosity to see what could've happened if I hadn't been weakened by dogknees first: Perish Song would've still been OHKO'd even at full HP, Jett would've survived Moongheist Beam at full HP (though it would get 2HKO so it's only a check, not a counter) but would've died to Pollen Puff (since its Sturdy is neutralized), so if Andrew safely switched into Jett I'd have to switch, but my only mon that doesn't get OHKO or 2HKO by Pollen Puff is RavioliQueen, and it still dies in 3 or 4 hits, so if they did hit and run with Pollen Puff I still lose. If I sent out Jett as a revenge killer at full HP after Andrew killed with Moongheist, I could've OHKO'd Andrew with Knock off if it stayed in and The Hunt Is On! if it switched, but if Andrew stayed and I chose The Hunt Is On it would survive (thanks to Jett's Adaptability being neutralized) and would then 2HKO Jett and proceed with the sweep (and of course if I chose Knock Off and Andrew switched then I'd have been back at square one, possibly with Andrew revenge switching back in to use Pollen Puff). So my only way to survive in that situation would've been a revenge kill that relied on a coin flip.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8superstaffbros4-1294751346
Idea: replace the specs with a scarf. Andrew gets a more solid niche as being extremely fast and still hitting decently hard (and also still able to use Trick to cripple walls), but without being obscenely strong.
Edit: I did some calcs out of curiosity to see what could've happened if I hadn't been weakened by dogknees first: Perish Song would've still been OHKO'd even at full HP, Jett would've survived Moongheist Beam at full HP (though it would get 2HKO so it's only a check, not a counter) but would've died to Pollen Puff (since its Sturdy is neutralized), so if Andrew safely switched into Jett I'd have to switch, but my only mon that doesn't get OHKO or 2HKO by Pollen Puff is RavioliQueen, and it still dies in 3 or 4 hits, so if they did hit and run with Pollen Puff I still lose. If I sent out Jett as a revenge killer at full HP after Andrew killed with Moongheist, I could've OHKO'd Andrew with Knock off if it stayed in and The Hunt Is On! if it switched, but if Andrew stayed and I chose The Hunt Is On it would survive (thanks to Jett's Adaptability being neutralized) and would then 2HKO Jett and proceed with the sweep (and of course if I chose Knock Off and Andrew switched then I'd have been back at square one, possibly with Andrew revenge switching back in to use Pollen Puff). So my only way to survive in that situation would've been a revenge kill that relied on a coin flip.
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zodiax is here to zodihax
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8superstaffbros4-1296722318
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8superstaffbros4-1296722318
Is my mon really that good that it needs a nerf? I thought I did a pretty good job balancing it lol
There isn't a single nerf suggestion that mentions my mon aside from it having a high winrate, which I'm surprised at as well given that every tier list seems to put Mimikyu at the middle of the pack
There isn't a single nerf suggestion that mentions my mon aside from it having a high winrate, which I'm surprised at as well given that every tier list seems to put Mimikyu at the middle of the pack
I honestly think it shouldn't be nerfed, but I think that there are simply too many underpowered mons in the meta rn, and personally would like the mons to be around your "powerlevel".
I don't think it should either honestly. I don't think that would accomplish anything. Being able to stop almost all setup sweepers without normal typing in their tracks, it's really not broken at all... it can get tanked very easily, baited, disabled and taken advantage of like all the rest, thanks to its speed tier, and it actually does get run over by multiple hit moves.
A while has passed since the tier came out, there have been some patches, and I've got to use all of these mons a lot more in the 1000 or so games I've had since I last made a tier list. As such, here is my updated tier list! Anything at B tier or above is good, anything below is mediocre to bad.
Mans really put Zodiax in E tier below Segmr
ok. not implemented yet.
NERFS
-----
drampa's grandpa: Get off my lawn no longer switches the user out
KingSwordYT: Ability: No more giving damage from damage taken. Clash of Pangoros: No longer heals user
Rach: No more regenerator
Nol: Mad Hacks prority: -7
Blaz: Why worry -> Solid Rock
The Immortal: Watt Up: 75% chance to buff Speed
instruct: Back to soda break, but Last laugh now boosts instruct's moves 10x to opponents already affected by Last Laugh
Hoeen: Storm Surge speed decrease from 50% less to 25% less
Mitsuki: No more solar power
Hydro: stats of Dedenne
BUFFS
----
Mad Monty: Full IVs
Cake: jungle healing over life dew
tiki: Frosmoth stats
Segmr: Price to curse now 25%
Sectonia: Homunculus's Vanity: +1 defenses, opponent gets -1 to highest offensive stat
NERFS
-----
drampa's grandpa: Get off my lawn no longer switches the user out
KingSwordYT: Ability: No more giving damage from damage taken. Clash of Pangoros: No longer heals user
Rach: No more regenerator
Nol: Mad Hacks prority: -7
Blaz: Why worry -> Solid Rock
The Immortal: Watt Up: 75% chance to buff Speed
instruct: Back to soda break, but Last laugh now boosts instruct's moves 10x to opponents already affected by Last Laugh
Hoeen: Storm Surge speed decrease from 50% less to 25% less
Mitsuki: No more solar power
Hydro: stats of Dedenne
BUFFS
----
Mad Monty: Full IVs
Cake: jungle healing over life dew
tiki: Frosmoth stats
Segmr: Price to curse now 25%
Sectonia: Homunculus's Vanity: +1 defenses, opponent gets -1 to highest offensive stat
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my moves, not theirs
Also going to add this addendum:
Next rounds of balancing will be not next month, but whenever we feel like it.
Segmr's will-o-wisp and good bulk allows it to spread burns effectively, and tsukuyomi can be used to allow another pokémon to come in safely against a half HP opponent. If you come in against an opponent you can handle, Segmr is almost guaranteed to put in some work with tsukuyomi + protect, since it can't be played around with bulky pivots like Felucia, Marshmallon, or Vooper, and even magic bouncers aren't safe because they take 50% recoil. Zodiax, while it can put in work, very frequently does not.
My thoughts on the changes, in no particular order:
Poor Nol. She didn't need a nerf at all. Hoeen and The Immortal haven't really been nerfed much, but those are neat. KingSword took a heavy hit, but I think he'll still be pretty decent. Drampa's grandpa didn't take too heavy a hit, but I think it's good.
Mitsuki and Rach took super heavy hits. Rach has very little survivability outside of regenerator, especially since it tends to switch out on low HP to heal up, so that's big, and Mitsuki lost a LOT of power. Jolly, non-STAB, unboosted coverage will hit a lot less hard, especially if you get the miracle seed set.
Blaz, Cake, Hydro, and Mad Monty: Good. Jungle healing is much better for cake, Mad Monty should be able to wallbreak more effectively, and Blaz won't be so unkillable now. Hydro taking a hit to its stats is well deserved.
Tiki and SectoniaServant are both incredible buffs. Tiki will be a true tank now, and be able to set up a lot of hazards before defogging them away itself. SectoniaServant looks set to be absolutely disgusting with a +1 +1 defences AND a BURN IT DOWN effect. I think they will be one of the best with such easy to set up bulk and pressure stalling.
Instruct is cool, I liked the old set but I understand why it's gone back, and you've fixed the biggest problem Instruct used to have.
Poor Nol. She didn't need a nerf at all. Hoeen and The Immortal haven't really been nerfed much, but those are neat. KingSword took a heavy hit, but I think he'll still be pretty decent. Drampa's grandpa didn't take too heavy a hit, but I think it's good.
Mitsuki and Rach took super heavy hits. Rach has very little survivability outside of regenerator, especially since it tends to switch out on low HP to heal up, so that's big, and Mitsuki lost a LOT of power. Jolly, non-STAB, unboosted coverage will hit a lot less hard, especially if you get the miracle seed set.
Blaz, Cake, Hydro, and Mad Monty: Good. Jungle healing is much better for cake, Mad Monty should be able to wallbreak more effectively, and Blaz won't be so unkillable now. Hydro taking a hit to its stats is well deserved.
Tiki and SectoniaServant are both incredible buffs. Tiki will be a true tank now, and be able to set up a lot of hazards before defogging them away itself. SectoniaServant looks set to be absolutely disgusting with a +1 +1 defences AND a BURN IT DOWN effect. I think they will be one of the best with such easy to set up bulk and pressure stalling.
Instruct is cool, I liked the old set but I understand why it's gone back, and you've fixed the biggest problem Instruct used to have.
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Instruct isn't cool he refuses to buff me
I made some faux patchnotes for fun because I was bored. Hope people like them :)
Abdelrahman -
The Town Outplay -
Option 1 - Burn Chance increased from 10% to 100%
Option 2 - 10% chance to burn, Puts up Downtown Room, Slower goes first + fire moves deal super effective damage to water types.
Adri - New Moveset: Searing Shot or Aura Sphere or Dragon Energy + Psystrike + Calm Mind + Skystriker.
Arby - New Moveset: Origin Pulse, Focus Blast, Blizzard, Quickhammer (either this or just give Arby Life Orb)
Wave Terrain - Removes all Hazards and Screens and prevents them from being placed as long as it is on the field, attacking moves cannot miss.
Quickhammer - Base Power 50. Priority +1 - Pursuit effect. 80% accuracy.
Andrew - Item - Choice Specs > Choice Scarf (that’s it)
biggie -
Juggernaut Punch -> Light Punch. Fighting Type, Physical, 20 Base Power, hits 4 to 10 times, Regain Health equal to 50% of the damage dealt.
Option 2 - Super Armor -> Wolverine Specific Combo - This Pokémon resists all damage from and deals 1.5x more damage to lighter Pokémon.
Option 3 - New Innate: Assist Me! - Assist uses the statline of the pokémon in the user’s team who originally owned the move instead of Snorlax’s and has +3 Priority. If the move is a status move, it comes out immediately. If not it comes out at the end of the turn.
Blaz
Why Worry > Filter
Brandon
Bane Terrain > Switches Offensive stat investment instead of the actual stat the move uses (252atk to 252spatk but boosting moves still increase stats)
Cake
h > h2 - On Switch-In and at the end of every turn, this Pokémon changes type randomly. Every turn it, it replaces 2 physical moves each round with moves corresponding to its typing. This pokémon can only ever be dual typed.
New Moveset > Support Move, Specific Phys Move 1, Specific Phys Move 2, “Just Go For it”
Kevin > Just go for it: Effect : Boosts Attack, Defense and Speed one stage, replaces Innate ability with Ice Scales until the user switches out.
Celine
Status Guard > Bounces back status moves and switches itself out when they bounce.
c.kilgannon
Soul Siphon > Heals based on damage dealt instead of opponent’s attacking stat. Still lowers Attack.
Coconut
New Moveset > Magic Coat, Strength Sap, Topsy-Turvy, Devolution beam
Devolution Beam > Effect: If the target Pokémon is evolved, this move will reduce the target to its first-stage form. If the target Pokémon is single-stage or is already in its first-stage form, this move lowers all of the opponent's stats by 1 and deals double damage.
Base Damage > 80 > 90
Max pp 8 > 32.
Drampa
GET OFF MY LAWN > No longer switches the user out.
HoeenHero
New Moveset > Hurricane, Energy Ball, Scald, Landfall
Life Orb > Mystic Water
Hubriz
New Moveset > Searing Shot, Sludge Wave, Leaf Storm, Steroid Anaphylaxia
INStruct
Return to Soda Break
Last Laugh update: If Riolu is on the field, no Terrains can be set, and any existing terrain is replaced with Grassy Terrain on switch-in.
KipKluiff
New Innate > Pressure
Marshmallon
RAWWR > -7 Priority
n10sit
Unbind > While Hoopa is in its Unbound forme, Shadow Ball becomes Dark Pulse.
PartMan
Hecatomb Effect > + Magic Guard effect
Perish Song
Rock Blast > Diamond Storm or Stone Edge
Trickery: 100% accuracy
PiraTe Princess
Moveset
Moongeist Beam, Spacial Rend, “Third Move”, Dungeons & Dragons
Dungeons & Dragons: Raises the user’s Speed one Stage, keeps the opponent from switching out, adds Dragon Typing to the opponent, then rolls a d20, rerolls 3rd move.
on a 1: Raises the foe’s speed by 1 Stage
on a 2 to a 10: Confuses the user
on a 11 to a 16: Raises user’s special Defense and Defense by 1 Stage.
on a 15 to a 19: Raises user's special Attack by 1 Stage
on a nat 20: Omniboost.
Psynergy
Supernova > On switch-in, if total positive boosts - total negative boosts ≥ 6, both Pokémon faint.
Rage
New Item: Life Orb
Inversion terrain: Additionally, Burn and Poison Heal the afflicted and Burn gives a 1.5x boost to the power of phys moves.
Stoutland
Item Leftovers > Life Orb
Royal Coat now also Heals Raihan by 12% each turn like with Kev while he’s in Sandstorm.
SectoniaServant
Homunculus' Vanity > +1 to both Defensive Stats with a 50% chance to boost SpAtk.
Segmr
Tsukuyomi > 25% Health loss, Applies Taunt, Traps and Curses.
Shadecession
Shady Deal > Only boosts either Attack or Speed.
Zodiax
Primordial Rain > Primordial Rain + Dry Skin
Nol
Drought + Sturdy + Prankster > Desolate Land + Sturdy + Prankster (Please don’t nerf Nol.)
Abdelrahman -
The Town Outplay -
Option 1 - Burn Chance increased from 10% to 100%
Option 2 - 10% chance to burn, Puts up Downtown Room, Slower goes first + fire moves deal super effective damage to water types.
Adri - New Moveset: Searing Shot or Aura Sphere or Dragon Energy + Psystrike + Calm Mind + Skystriker.
Arby - New Moveset: Origin Pulse, Focus Blast, Blizzard, Quickhammer (either this or just give Arby Life Orb)
Wave Terrain - Removes all Hazards and Screens and prevents them from being placed as long as it is on the field, attacking moves cannot miss.
Quickhammer - Base Power 50. Priority +1 - Pursuit effect. 80% accuracy.
Andrew - Item - Choice Specs > Choice Scarf (that’s it)
biggie -
Juggernaut Punch -> Light Punch. Fighting Type, Physical, 20 Base Power, hits 4 to 10 times, Regain Health equal to 50% of the damage dealt.
Option 2 - Super Armor -> Wolverine Specific Combo - This Pokémon resists all damage from and deals 1.5x more damage to lighter Pokémon.
Option 3 - New Innate: Assist Me! - Assist uses the statline of the pokémon in the user’s team who originally owned the move instead of Snorlax’s and has +3 Priority. If the move is a status move, it comes out immediately. If not it comes out at the end of the turn.
Blaz
Why Worry > Filter
Brandon
Bane Terrain > Switches Offensive stat investment instead of the actual stat the move uses (252atk to 252spatk but boosting moves still increase stats)
Cake
h > h2 - On Switch-In and at the end of every turn, this Pokémon changes type randomly. Every turn it, it replaces 2 physical moves each round with moves corresponding to its typing. This pokémon can only ever be dual typed.
New Moveset > Support Move, Specific Phys Move 1, Specific Phys Move 2, “Just Go For it”
Kevin > Just go for it: Effect : Boosts Attack, Defense and Speed one stage, replaces Innate ability with Ice Scales until the user switches out.
Celine
Status Guard > Bounces back status moves and switches itself out when they bounce.
c.kilgannon
Soul Siphon > Heals based on damage dealt instead of opponent’s attacking stat. Still lowers Attack.
Coconut
New Moveset > Magic Coat, Strength Sap, Topsy-Turvy, Devolution beam
Devolution Beam > Effect: If the target Pokémon is evolved, this move will reduce the target to its first-stage form. If the target Pokémon is single-stage or is already in its first-stage form, this move lowers all of the opponent's stats by 1 and deals double damage.
Base Damage > 80 > 90
Max pp 8 > 32.
Drampa
GET OFF MY LAWN > No longer switches the user out.
HoeenHero
New Moveset > Hurricane, Energy Ball, Scald, Landfall
Life Orb > Mystic Water
Hubriz
New Moveset > Searing Shot, Sludge Wave, Leaf Storm, Steroid Anaphylaxia
INStruct
Return to Soda Break
Last Laugh update: If Riolu is on the field, no Terrains can be set, and any existing terrain is replaced with Grassy Terrain on switch-in.
KipKluiff
New Innate > Pressure
Marshmallon
RAWWR > -7 Priority
n10sit
Unbind > While Hoopa is in its Unbound forme, Shadow Ball becomes Dark Pulse.
PartMan
Hecatomb Effect > + Magic Guard effect
Perish Song
Rock Blast > Diamond Storm or Stone Edge
Trickery: 100% accuracy
PiraTe Princess
Moveset
Moongeist Beam, Spacial Rend, “Third Move”, Dungeons & Dragons
Dungeons & Dragons: Raises the user’s Speed one Stage, keeps the opponent from switching out, adds Dragon Typing to the opponent, then rolls a d20, rerolls 3rd move.
on a 1: Raises the foe’s speed by 1 Stage
on a 2 to a 10: Confuses the user
on a 11 to a 16: Raises user’s special Defense and Defense by 1 Stage.
on a 15 to a 19: Raises user's special Attack by 1 Stage
on a nat 20: Omniboost.
Psynergy
Supernova > On switch-in, if total positive boosts - total negative boosts ≥ 6, both Pokémon faint.
Rage
New Item: Life Orb
Inversion terrain: Additionally, Burn and Poison Heal the afflicted and Burn gives a 1.5x boost to the power of phys moves.
Stoutland
Item Leftovers > Life Orb
Royal Coat now also Heals Raihan by 12% each turn like with Kev while he’s in Sandstorm.
SectoniaServant
Homunculus' Vanity > +1 to both Defensive Stats with a 50% chance to boost SpAtk.
Segmr
Tsukuyomi > 25% Health loss, Applies Taunt, Traps and Curses.
Shadecession
Shady Deal > Only boosts either Attack or Speed.
Zodiax
Primordial Rain > Primordial Rain + Dry Skin
Nol
Drought + Sturdy + Prankster > Desolate Land + Sturdy + Prankster (Please don’t nerf Nol.)
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