Suspect SV BH Suspect 2: Shapeshifter (Terastallizing)

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Tea Guzzler

it's all gone pear shaped
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Palkia-OBanBanDo Not BanDo Not BanDo Not Ban
The BH council has unanimously decided to suspect test Terastallizing. If successful, Terastal Clause will be implemented in SV BH.

Terastal has been a difficult topic in every meta and now BH is having its turn in the spotlight. BH has a fairly unique stance on Terastal in that it's an almost entirely offensive mechanic - Terastallizing a defensive Pokemon is only used as a reaction to an opposing threat. We ultimately judged that Terastal is linked to the two main issues in the meta, being that offensive Pokemon (such as Gorilla Tactics or Orichalcum Pulse attackers) are really difficult to wall and bulky setup Pokemon (like Fur Coat Quiver Dance users) spiral out of control too easily.

Defensive Terastallization is largely a healthy aspect of the mechanic - being able to shore up a weakness to a random demon breaker helps reduce matchup inconsistency and creates more stable games. Offensive Terastallization is the much more problematic element due to the sheer offensive power it gives to already-dangerous threats, arguably making them unreasonable to withstand long-term and (in some instances) very hard to actually threaten with damage. In places where a Terastallized threat can't brute-force its way through walls, it can also threaten 50/50s whenever Terastallizing is a possibility, and guessing wrong almost always leads to the loss of a Pokemon (which is signficantly more impactful than most other tiers). In addition to this, defensive Terastallization is arguably fringe and in many cases used only as a response to offensive Terastallization from an opposing threat, which creates many inflexible situations and could be symptomatic of offensive Terastal being too overbearing. Finally, Terastallizing can further haze matchup consistency by blanking Imposter users, which don't copy Terastal, allowing offensive threats to make the matchup completely one-sided or simply OHKO the Imposter user with the damage boost (see: Tera Fire GT Zacian-C).

However, there are arguments that Terastallizing is a healthy mechanic. First off, as said above, defensive Terastal helps to patch up emergency weaknesses in a team and help increase matchup consistency while not being flexible enough to let players get away with poorly built teams. Terastallizing also offers creative new ways to break past checks and gives newfound viability to would-be fringe coverage like Water, Grass, and Fairy, most often seen on Choice Item users. Finally, and while it's subjective, Terastallizing is arguably just a fun mechanic that makes games more dynamic and less like drawn-out wars of attrition, and so tiering on it ultimately falls to where you personally draw the line between balance and enjoyability.

As stated above, the only reason we're suspecting Terastallizing is because of offensive Pokemon. There are 2 main categories, being STAB Tera and non-STAB Tera, and both have defensive applications intertwined. STAB Tera is generally the most common as it provides a significant power boost to a Pokemon's (typically) strongest and most spammable attack, helping break through walls with sheer damage alone. Some of the more common Pokemon in this category are Palkia-O, Zacian-C, Arceus-Ghost, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Fairy, Groudon, Ursaluna, and Miraidon. The second category is non-STAB Terastallization, where Pokemon Terastallize into the same STAB as their coverage in order to give it the kick necessary to break past walls. Common Pokemon included in this category are Zacian-C (Choice Band sets sometimes use non-Tera Fairy), Enamorus, Palafin-Hero, and Slaking. A problem arises for some of these threats in that these categories aren't mutually exclusive - some Pokemon like Zacian-C and Slaking enjoy both, which adds an additional element of unpredictability, and even among STAB Tera-only Pokemon, it's sometimes not evident which Tera Type they're using. Many also have an inherent defensive use, such as Tera Electric Miraidon removing the Fairy-type weakness or Tera Fire Zacian-C flipping the Fire-type weakness into a resistance, which can make offensively pressuring these threats quite difficult.

If you looked at the voting table above, there were only 2/5 Ban votes on Palkia-O. Palkia-O is the most problematic Terastal user thanks to an excellent STAB combination and brutal wallbreaking power. Tera Dragon is most notorious, with +1 Dragon Energy OHKOing RegenVest Dialga-O and 2HKOing Chansey or +0 OHKOing Arceus and 2HKOing Ice Scales Dialga-O, whereas Tera Water offers a much better defensive profile that allows setting up on Zacian-C and PixiSpeed users like Arceus-Fairy. Ultimately we decided that Palkia-O wasn't warping in the same way that Slaking and Poison Heal were, and that it should remain legal for the suspect despite the massive power. This is mostly due to Palkia-O's limitations as a Pokemon rather than as a Terastal user, where it struggles heavily to break past dedicated checks like Desolate Land Zacian-C, and so it should be considered a part of Tera's applications.

During a suspect test, players must register an alt account and climb the Pokemon Showdown! ladder in order to reach a certain GXE and earn the rights to participate in the vote. The alts need to follow the below guidelines:
  • Have a creation date no earlier than today (February 27th).​
  • Games must be played on the official Pokemon Showdown! site.​
  • Terastallizing is allowed on ladder during the suspect period.​
  • Accounts must begin with the prefix "BHTERA", and this must be at the start of the name (eg. "BHTERA Tea" is allowed, but "Testing BHTERA" is invalid). This name requirement is mandatory.
  • To qualify for voting, players must reach 80% GXE with at least 30 games, decreasing by 0.2% GXE for every game played (down to 76% GXE with minimum 50 games). There is no upper limit for how many games you can qualify with.​
  • The suspect will last for two weeks, ending on Monday, March 13th at 11:59PM GMT+0.​
  • Posting proof of ownership of the alt account is mandatory. Post a picture of you logged into your alt account with reqs and forum name visible.​
  • (Optional) Feel free to discuss your stance on the matter when posting proof of reqs.​
A 60% majority in the blind voting forum is required for Terastal Clause to be implemented.
Tagging Kris to set up the suspect on PS.
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Tea Guzzler

it's all gone pear shaped
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spin minrolls are fake they can't hurt you (my therapist this morning, rip the first account)

on the fence, both ban and DNB are legitemate options. DNB -> remove all the broken stuff like zac-c and palk-o -> see where we are can work, so can ban -> remove the still broken stuff -> see where we are, ultimately ends up at similar positions but one has tera / one doesn't

built this for no tera tour and had most laddering success with it bc norm ghostceus and ooze zac are broken against 90% of ladder players, ursa sample also works but be prepared for good players to cteam it so they can farm wins. coil slaking is a demon and both phys attackers bait sap really well, don't be scared to throw arc away if they have like a scales chansey or scales abil shield ting-lu that poison isn't beating, scales dialga-o + chansey should handle most offensive threats while you can set up king and bait kills.
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True Coffee Maniac
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Got reqs, went 20-0 then ladder got me and lost 4 in a row. (para is dumb)

Dunno what I will vote, defensive Tera seems fairly healthy for BH, let's you outplay strats like mono-ghost attack Ghostceus but I can't deny the potency of offensive Tera. Dunno, since this is BH it is kinda different kinda similar to AAA, just the power level may justify the offensive power of Tera in contrast to AAA.

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A lot of emotional damage.

Will vote for ban.
Honestly fell that reversing mus is a problem. And tera into own types makes offensive mons stupidly broken as it let's u break through ur own checks. (Seriously the sheer damage from tera fairy Magical Torque from zac and tera dragon dragon energy and tera electric rising voltage from mirai lol)
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I'm not too proud of this record but I fought this cteam 3 times (thank you matchmaking very cool).

Anyways, onto the discussion of banning tera-typing. I don't think tera-typing itself is a problem, its the combination of tera-typing and offensive powerhouses that combines together to create nearly untankable threats. The presence of Magical Torque, Headlong Rush and Steam Eruption/Water Spout, and their respective users (Zacian-C, Groudon, Palkia-O) make same-type tera-typing dangerous, with the extra damage boost on top of moves with high base power.

Defensive tera-typing creates both balanced and interesting counterplay. Offensive tera-typing, however, is potentially broken. This "broken-ness" doesn't come from the feature itself, but rather the insanely powerful pokemon that are allowed in the meta in the first place. It would be unfair to suspect tera-typing before suspect testing Pokemon like Zacian-C or Palkia-O first.

If given the option, I'd vote for a partial ban of tera-typing preventing same-move-type tera-types (ei: Fairy Tera Magical Torque, Electric Tera Rising Voltage, Ghost Tera Judgement-Ghost), much like how Comatose and Sleep Talk are banned together but not individually. This would prevent the increased damage from tera-typing while leaving it open to defensive play. Otherwise, if this is not possible I'm leaning slightly towards do not ban but I will be highly in favor banning offensive tera-typing Pokemon when the suspect tests start.

edit: make words bold
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Gorilla Tactics and Palkia-O are the issues with the meta as those alone restrict any teambuilding to an FC resist and a specific Palkia counter unless one wants to lose at team preview. The absurd elements that get boosted via Tera are absurd with or without Tera. A Tera ban before any of these more glaring issues are addressed doesn't strike me as the path to take, especially with how integral Tera is to the identity of generation 9.


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I forgot how stupid BH ladd was (shoutouts & sorry to all the people that had 1% of luck vs me I was malding bc of all that stupid low ladd non-sens that gets everything they need to win + s/o LordBox for literally getting everything pain)
s/o Tea for the team even if it wasn't fishproof vs the ladd + whats ur ghostceus answer ??

not sure of what I will vote, I don't play BH and the ladder, esp in BH, isn't the best way to learn the meta lol, but I kinda agree with Onyx cuz when I played/watched replays Tera only felt overwhelming on already borderline mons (Zacian, Gorilla Tactics Groudon, Palkia-O or Ghostceus sometimes) and it just pushes them even further in the "probably broken" zone, but I never felt like tera on its own was the problem. However, Tera is def a game changing mechanic, and it isn't because I can only see those threats being broken with tera that a) there aren't other threats (that I'm not aware of due to my low BH experience) b) whenever those mons are banned/restricted/whatever, other threats appeared to be unmanageable due to how Tera works and how it can in one turn kills a game / transforms strong breakers in stupid breakers. On the other side, Tera often feels like an emergency solution vs a particular breaker that you couldn't prep for and instead of having a 0-100 MU if you face that particular threat you have a tool (which forces you to use your tera on this mon though) to deal with it. Anyway I don't really know, I'll try to watch replays if I can to have a better opinion, but there are def actions to take I think regarding Tera or other things like Onyx said (I faced like 3 Zac-C Water Absorb I mean maybe it's a legit set but maybeeee palkia-o is a problem too LOL)

(I also do not care of tera being part of the gen 9, as someone who doesn't play the actual games since DPP it doesn't matter much to me, it's just about is it healthy or not and I do not feel like it would remove the "identity" of gen 9, but I can see why people want to keep it free for that reason, as long as it is not absolutely stupid)

anyway, gl laddering, love on y'all :heart:

Tea Guzzler

it's all gone pear shaped
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Vote no ban for me is perfect tera makes matches more entretaining and less predicitible set ups in some mons like Zacian-C or Giratina. I don't see point to remove this interesting mechanic that can be used for offensive mons or defensive ones and also that is not even as broken as dynamax.
sorry, but you need a little more to meet the requirements.
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