Resource SV Doubles OU Viability Rankings

[Nails]

-> 1 cudgel bonk, too bulky for its speed and power.
-> 1 is able to ohko most of the tier for half the game.
-> 2 cannot fake out basc and dies to last respects.
-> 3 dies to last respects and cannot ohko back.
-> 4 lunar blessing support is less important and is weak to last respects, other trick roomers have better defensive utility. trick room in general lacks the potency of other strategies that focus on basc
-> 5 too slow and cannot contest flutter or basc
-> 4 manual weather torn outclasses the weather setting abilities, the mons have been power crept enough that including them on a team is a bigger liability than it was at the start of the gen
-> UR can come back to 3 after masc is banned

 

[Schister]

So much to say

NEW -> T4; Very effective Bulk Punch user with a perfect ability for the job, a rather difficult to hit Defensive typing that can be easily teraed out of into the few mons that do hit it hard enough with Psychic, Flying or Ground attacks, with these types mostly being on supportive mons in the current metagame, or the much slower Ursaluna who does not appreciate taking a drain punch itself.

NEW -> T4; A nice ability combined with a broken movepool, interesting typing, and good stat distribution makes sinistcha a major supportive threat: being able to spread burns, spam healing for itself, and abuse trick room while having access to redirection. Sinistcha is also competent at running a calm mind set to become harder to kill and even a win condition thanks to no shortage of healing options between its signature and Strength Sap, and has a well-defined role on trick room structures. Being immune too both spore and fake out gives it bonus points as a fairly reliable Trick room setter.

T2 -> T4; Ogerpon's multiple forms pair with Rillaboom to dominate most team's grass options, and their access to follow me can provide any team using them an easy means to invalidate Amoonguss' Spore. Sinistcha being as effective as it is as a Rage Powder user and setter on trick room structures also provides a bit of additional competition for Amoonguss as a Supportive grass type

T2 -> T5; The combination of multiple new grasses, Grassy glide's return as a competing priority option on Rillaboom, who offers much more support, pre-dlc metagame shifts against it, return of Basculegion as a rain abuser and premier water offenser and an overall shift towards faster gameplay with Bulky screens no longer at the forefront of the meta has left Palafin either outclassed or invalidated in just about all of its previous roles lately; especially with the new and common Wellspring Ogerpon having access to Water Absorb Redirection to completely neutralize Palafin's only STAB type on many teams. Still, it would be a mistake to deny the sheer power this mon has, as it can still cause some serious damage with its attack stat.

NEW -> T1; Incredible typing, broken ability, fantastic STAB attacks.
NEW -> T2; Probably the best redirector in the format, especially with the ability to basically put on an assault vest at will.
NEW -> UR; Belongs on DUU Sand teams, not worth using in DOU.
NEW -> T5; Slap on a choice band and pretend to be scarfed Garmanitan with a worse stab type. Otherwise outclassed by wellspring.

T5 -> T4; With so many elemental types flying around and every team having a grass of some sort, Acrobatics moon can almost always find a target to snipe down while providing tried and true value as a bulky tailwind setter. Newfound access to Knock off also helps.

UBER -> T3; Able to run away with games and is a a dominant force for trick room teams, but hasn't picked up much traction in tours lately between basc and the new grass types running around, and trick room denial methods being common in taunt genies and what have you. Too reliant on team support for me to consider a T2 mon at the moment, especially with so many other powerful and more independent threats running around.

NEW -> T4; A slow but powerful Assault vest/Calm mind user that notably outspeeds Iron hands and Kingambit by a hair, establishing itself as a strong check to big threats int he game, both fast and slow with nearly unresistable coverage, immense 140 BP stab button. and access to vacuum wave to finish off Dark types, even rolling for the OHKO on Chien-Pao.
252+ SpA Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Vacuum Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chien-Pao: 280-332 (93 - 110.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

NEW -> T3; Incredible support mon with great bulk as a result of gen 9 snow mechanics, finding value from screens/weather as well as a great support movepool that with encore/disable, howl and helping hand.

I also think bax deserves to rise with how strong ninetails is and its newfound loaded dice set but I'm not fully sure of its power and don't have any saved replays at this time for it.

 

[RelicanthPrimal]

farig to 2

the og combo of fo hands and tr farig is back, it does well into the ho meta. blocking the prio attacks for stuff like basc is also gr8. easily the best tr setter once again. but after bans to the 2 op ghosts who knows

 

[zoe]

2 -> 1

This is my big nomination and I haven't seen anyone else make it, so I'm going to explain a lot here to properly say why Landorus-T deserves Tier 1 once again.
​

Intimidate

Intimidate is a really valuable ability in the current meta, considerably reducing the damage done by the swathe of physically based attackers such as Iron Hands, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Ogerpon-Wellspring, Baxcalibur, Basculegion, Chien-Pao, opposing Landorus-T, Rillaboom, Ursaluna, etc. There are a lot of Pokemon Intimidate slows down in this format, especially compared to last generation, where it was really just Urshifu-R and Rillaboom, with the former effectively not caring. Landorus-T is easily the best Intimidate user in the format due to previous competition, namely Incineroar, not being available and the other options and the available users being mediocre to plain awful, partially due to Landorus-T outclassing them. It has the bulk to stomach a large amount of the physical attacks it weakens as well, such as taking 40% max from Ogerpon-H post Intimidate (not while Ogerpon has Embody Aspect up). However, the important part about Intimidate is it allowing Landorus-T's teammates to take the weakened hits that much better - Landorus-T itself doesn't threaten that many of the attackers it intimidates outside of Ogerpon-H (mainly post-tera) and Iron Hands (which it can actually OHKO with Stomping Tantrum if Hands uses Fake Out on it at first, which is a impressive feat on its own). However, allowing a RIllaboom to take an Ursaluna Facade or Heatran a Chien-Pao Sacred Sword so both can threaten KOs on them in return is extremely valuable and shouldn't be understated. Even reducing the amount of damage a setup sweeper like Baxcalibur takes can change the tide of a game Even if Landorus-T is threatened by some of the physical attackers - Chien-Pao and Ogerpon-Wellspring being the primary two - Intimidate can still lead to favorable trades due to the drastically reduced damage taken by its partner, which can be invaluable. It's an ability a lot of teams can find value with, but not the only redeeming part about Landorus-T.

Set Diversity

Landorus-T has 3 main sets that have all seen high level use and success. All 3 carry two moves, Stomping Tantrum and U-turn, but the other aspects of the sets are different. Defensive sets often run Taunt and Stealth Rock with a Sitrus Berry (but can run other things too of course) while Assault Vest and Choice Scarf can run p much any 2 attacking moves besides Stomping Tantrum and U-turn. All 3 sets can effectively function as an Intimidate pivot, but have considerably different roles otherwise. The defensive set can switch in on physical attackers more due to Sitrus Berry increasing its longevity, but the main draw is its ability to run both Taunt and Stealth Rock. The both give Landorus-T a lot of utility due to it being able to stop redirection, setup, or Trick Room with Taunt, or Stealth Rock providing general chip but also breaking Focus Sashes and being extremely helpful at wearing down Pokemon like Tornadus, Ogerpon-H, Ninetales-A, and Chien-Pao, which are all cornerstone pieces of their respective teams, making chipping them down extremely important. Stealth Rock is also a move without a ton of viable users currently, with the main two being Glimmora, which isn't as easy to fit as Landorus-T and can often die early on, or Heatran, which ether runs Assault Vest or opts for other moves instead of Stealth Rocks, making Landorus-T's ability to fit them as easily as it does considerably useful. Assault Vest is more geared to checking special attackers while still functioning as an Intimidate pivot, and can switch in on Flutter Mane to intimidate its partner far easier than normal as a result. Assault Vest is especially great at countering the likes of Chi-Yu, Heatran, and Volcanion due to it absorbing most of their attacks comfortably (Steam Eruption being the main exception) and threatening them back with Stomping Tantrum. It can also avoid a 2HKO from Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast while 2HKOing it in return if need be, but it'll most often be switching in and out to refresh Intimidate regardless, so this isn't situation that's seen a lot. Choice Scarf sacrifices defensive utility for offensive, as Choice Scarf outspeeds the entire unboosted meta without a +Speed nature, allowing it to run Adamant so it can OHKO common threats like Ogerpon-H and Flutter Mane with Tera Flying Tera Blast (or still doing significant damage without using tera), while still threatening others like Chien-Pao, Basculegion, and Chi-Yu. This is all while it can still provide Intimidate support for its team and take hits, such as living Focus Sash Chein-Pao Ice Spinner after Intmidate. Compressing an effective revenge killer that outspeeds some of the fastest Pokemon in the meta with an Intimidate Pokemon is very useful, especially when said Pokemon can still take hits somewhat comfortably.

Summary

Landorus-T is a Pokemon that deserves Tier 1 not out of how it affects the meta, but out of sheer effectiveness. Intimidate is a fantastic ability in its own right, but Landorus-T uses it along with its other numerous strengths excellently to allow its team to handle the tier's physical attackers considerably easier than normally, even if said attackers would threaten it otherwise. All of its sets provide useful tools for its team as well, such as Stealth Rock, being a general stopgap to special attacks, and threatening a good portion of the tier's offensive metagame, all while still providing invaluable Intimidate support, providing value to almost any team it can be fit on as a result. All of that lets it earn Tier 1 pretty comfortably in my eyes, and I hope everyone else sees it the same way :D

 

[BriefMarigold4]

-> UR; Sadly, this little fella is just no longer needed. Between Tornadus, Alolatales and Grimmsnarl there's no reason to use this over any of the previously mentioned Pokémons. Screens? Grimm and A9 are right there; Encore? Again, A9's got you covered. Not only that, but these Pokémons aren't as passive as a Shuckle waiting for its team to set up Trick Room and Power Trick; Stealth Rock? I'll be honest, I'm short of that but it's not like hazzards are the most vital part of Double Battles. This guy just hasn't been outclassed, it's been rendered obsolete, and has been power crept and speed crept like hell after the recent DLC.



-> T5; This thing is... weird. The combination of Tail Glow and Take Heat automatically make it usable, but it's just too easy to focus on and doesn't really have the coverage needed to take on mons like Volc, Wake and Waterpon. It also has a pretty mediocre SpA stat, being unable to OHKO Cress and AV Hands at +3 with Rain and Tera, let alone 2HKO them without those boosts. However, a +3 is still a combination to fear, especially now that it has Baton Pass, which thanks to its good bulk and speed can allow it to pass it to much better threats. It also has decent utility with Knock Off, Haze and even Heart Swap. It's just a very niche mon that only works in very specific scenarios, but when it does it pays off massively.



-> T4; He's big, he's fat and he's back. Sadly he isn't doing much, but he does just enough to guarantee not being a T5 unmon. What is his role? Belly Drum mostly, but thanks to Thick Fat it can "resist" powerful moves from the likes of Bundle, Chi-Yu, Armoruge, Torkoal and even Chien-Pao if it's running a tera to resist Sacred Sword. In fact, talking about terastalization, it pairs significantly well with Thick Fat, and allows Snorlax to more easily make use of its gargantous bulk to eat moves through resist. It's also base 30 speed which allows it to underspeed Kingambit, the Ursas and Hands under Trick Room, as well as speed tieing with Amoonguss; and although Tork does hit first under TR, Snorlax's Thick Fat and massive special bulk allows it to take Tork's Eruption with no trouble. However, it does have lots of disadvantages: although it's much easier to not immediatly die after using Belly Drum, it is much harder to achieve those conditions; Snorlax also suffers from being not very threatening, if at all, before using Belly Drum; lastly, its monotyping and low attack stat make it hard for it to ensure an OHKO on mons like Hands and Ursa without having to invest heavily in its attack stat. Also heavily contests with Hands and Luna, which is hard to do when you're Snorlax.

-> T3; Where do I even begin with this little fella. Guy has 2 incredibly good abilities in Heatproof and its signature Hospitality, so it can choose between turning a main weakness into a neutrality (or even a resist with Occa Berry) or supporting its team via immediate and unblockable 25% heals. Its natural typing isn't THAT good, but Fake Out immunity and grass resist is always appreciated. Stats wise it is a pretty well balanced Pokémon, as its biggesst stat is its base 121 SpA. It has VERY average bulk, which is one of its main problems, and its Speed is very akward, but all of this can be overlooked in favor of its main attraction: Matcha Gotcha. This move is so dumb; it has a 20% chance to influct burn, recovers 50% of the damage dealt AND it is a spread move. Of course, 90% accuracy makes it somewhat harder to spam, but it is still a hard move to switch into since you have to be careful with switching in something that doesn't care about burns AND doesn't take neutral or worse damage from Grass to prevent it from healing up. Sinistcha also has a ton of utility thanks to Rage Powder and Trick Room, which means it is not a 1 trick pony, and has other means of recovery in Life Dew and Strenght Sap. It also can set up with either Nasty Plot or Calm Mind, to become incredibly threatening, in tandem with other moves like Leaf Storm, Shadow Ball, Energy Ball, Hex or even Scald for either strong STAB alternatives or coverage in the case of Scald. Overall, a mon with a dumb movepool and dumb abilities held back massively by a poor typing and poor stats, and also very poor non-STAB coverage.



-> T2; After being unbanned, this chonk has proved to not be as threatening as it was back when it first introduced itself to the meta. Between brand new mons and the metagame itself changing, counterplay against Ursaluna is much more available and easier to use. However, this doesn't mean that it is been powercrept by these changes. Although it is still restricted to Trick Room, Ursaluna keeps being damn good at its job. Facade and Headlong Rush are still terribly dangerous, and Earthquake is a nice spread move to use with teammates like Landorus, Cresselia or Tera Grass/Flying Indeedee (who also cancels Grassy Glide's priority); but if Trick Room is out of the question, it is still a very good user of redirection support from the likes of Amoonguss, Sinistcha and Waterpon. The damage output it has is massive, and KOing it is no easy feat, however between its constant chip damage, all the brand new counterplay, the reintroduction of Grassy Glide and all the strong priority in the tier (see Chien Pao + Kingambit), Ursaluna can now be kept it in check. However Ursaluna is still a Pokémon that can spiral out of control very quickly, and its presence is very much so respected on the field. Still mad dependant on support, but crazy enough to pull it off.



-> T1; this thing is absurd, there is no contesting that, she deals obscene damage while still being fast as hell and relatively bulky for the damage and speed she has; the fire goblin also has a ton of random utility like Knock Off, U-Turn and Follow Me and has out of pocked coverage like Stomping Tamptrum, Brick Break, Superpower and Play Rough and also has all of the 3 good Grass STABs + Glide.

 

[Test Bots]

For now, I want to nominate this mon

to Tier 4. I have summarized my reasoning into two categories: 1) Stats & Typing + 2) Movepool.

1. It has good enough speed to KO what a ground-type pokemon should beat, but not enough to outspeed the Ogerpons; this is why I use Tera Type Dragon. Since it always needs to be Jolly (or otherwise gets KO'd by Chi-Yu), Life Orb or Choice Band is recommened as opposed to Booster Energy; the latter will only increase Treads's speed when its damage output is probably more important. It also has a good defensive typing but, in my opinion, not a good enough defensive stat.
2. It has a pretty good movepool. I personally found Ice Spinner and Heavy Slam to be useful secondary attack moves. I suppose you can use Wild Charge but there are no Water types in higher tiers that it would be useful against. Stone Edge or Rock Slide if fine but Ice Spinner pretty much does a better job of what they supposed to do. It also got access to Rapid Spin and is perhaps the best mon for the job, but I always found Stealth Rock to be more useful.

Here is that I have been using:

Iron Treads @ Life Orb
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Horsepower
- Ice Spinner
- Heavy Slam / Stealth Rock
- Protect

Hopefully, this analysis will give more insight to the viability of Iron Treads.

 

[AIRedzone]

Idk if I'm late with noms but here are a few mons that I've been enjoying quite a bit:

Landorus-T: 2-> 1

2 -> 1

This is my big nomination and I haven't seen anyone else make it, so I'm going to explain a lot here to properly say why Landorus-T deserves Tier 1 once again.​

Zoe's post above covers pretty much all the bases for why THE genie of healthy meta deserves top dawg status again. A quick summary: Lando's set diversity allows it to add immense value to any team while denying opponents the opportunity to gain ground through Intimidate. With its bulkier sets, it can eat hits all day, throw up Rocks very safely, and deny opposing utility/speed control with Taunt. It generates an incredible amount of space for its partner by weakening the majority of meta threats, which are predominantly physical. More interestingly, I believe offensive Lando is firmly back in the meta with the rise of the Ogerpons. Choice Scarf Lando-T (typically Tera Flying) is running amok in VGC at the moment due to its ability to effectively shut down Ogerpon-H and Ogerpon-W (Urshifu too, but thankfully that bear is banned). I expect this set to pick up in popularity once Basculegion-M is gone (pls vote ban), with Choice Band being a more niche option that is made viable with Tornadus support.


Tornadus: 2 -> 1

The most obnoxious mon in the tier, Tornadus is a no-brainer on any fast offense team. Prankster Tailwind is already obscenely strong and a point of contention for many players, and Tornadus elevates it with a spread STAB move that is not negligible in the slightest. Covert Cloak typically guarantees it can get a Tailwind off on turn 1, and Bleakwind Storm allows it to pressure Rillaboom and the Ogerpons, often forcing the latter to Tera. Offense vs. offense battles (which are basically all of them at this point) often come down to which player can position their Tornadus better to enable the Brokens to run away with a game.


Ogerpon-H: NEW -> 1
Ogerpon-W: NEW -> 2

NEW -> T1; Incredible typing, broken ability, fantastic STAB attacks.
NEW -> T2; Probably the best redirector in the format, especially with the ability to basically put on an assault vest at will.

Nick summarizes these two very well: both the Ogerpons have incredible typings. Hearthflame can consistently pressure most meta threats with FIre-type Ivy Cudgel without Tera, and can nuke absolutely everything with Tera. Wellspring hasn't seemed to receive as much hype yet but I believe it'll rise to the level of Hearthflame due to its excellence as a redirector. With Helping Hand and Follow Me it can enable its teammates to run away with a game, and even without much investment, its STABs provide excellent offensive pressure.

Now for the big dawg...

Okidogi: NEW -> 3

Perhaps this is a little too ambitious, but I believe Okidogi has got that dawg in em. Conditional on the increasing popularity of Lando-T, Okidogi's fantastic ability and typing allow it to bully nearly every tier 1 and 2 mon. It excels as a Bulk Up + Drain Punch user (especially behind screens), harkening back to our favorite dead monkey, Annihilape. However, this does require a good portion of the team to be built around it, which is a big investment if you're not confident that you'd run into Intimidate. A more versatile option, leveraging Okidogi's great attack stat and solid defenses, is Assault Vest. Most Okidogi sets can semi-comfortably eat a Stomping Tantrum from Landorus-T, and Assault Vest frees up moveslots to run Ice Punch to guarantee the reversal. It can Tera out of poor matchups - most commonly Grass to shrug off Ground attacks and become neutral to Psychic attacks - allowing it to continue to set up or deal big damage. Most importantly, its STABs are ridiculously good: Gunk Shot annihilates the Ogerpons, Rillaboom, and the hopefully-soon-to-be-banned Flutter Mane or forces them to Tera (and still eat a large amount of damage), while Drain Punch allows it to duel Iron Hands and profit off of Dark types. Its speed tier is not the best, but allows it to function on Semiroom teams as well as Tailwind offense teams provided its partners can shut down opposing speed control. I think T3 or T4 is reasonable for a mon that holds the potential to solo teams with the right support. I'm looking forward to exploring offensive sets like Band, Scarf, or Life Orb soon...

A few Dogi sets for those looking to try it out:

Assault Vest

Okidogi @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guard Dog
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 188 SpD / 28 Spe
Careful Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

Bulk Up

Okidogi @ Leftovers
Ability: Guard Dog
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 168 SpD / 28 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Gunk Shot
- Protect

 

[Actuarily]

The Viability Rankings have been updated for the first time since the Teal Mask DLC! Thank you to everyone who voted & nominated. Discuss your thoughts to the new VR below!

Now that we’ve done an update post the DLC, we’re going to bring back the usual rules for nominations, such as noms need to be more than one liners, nominating something from UR needs to include a replay of it being used, etc.

Low Tier Sweep

Nominations:
New -> T1/2

reasoning

Actuarily: T2. Is an absolute wrecking ball under TR, able to pick up OHKO’s on most relevant threats, requires the opponent to play very carefully around it. Only downside is that it basically requires TR to be up, and can be hard to position due to having bad defensive typing for the current metagame.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Almost completely reliant on Trick Room being up, which is a big ask at the moment. Despite being strong under TR, how difficult it is to reach that state holds it back heavily. The addition of Grassy Glide and Ogerpon to the meta doesn’t help either.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Right now the trick room/semiroom comps this is used on just get completely run over by offense, which is what everyone is using and should be using since we didn’t ban flutter. Fun times. Not a bad mon, just the comps to use it on need a lot of work put in to not fall behind.

SMB: tier 3, it’s harder to fit because the meta isn’t kind to cress. A lot more of priority moves as well.

JRL: T3. It is mostly used in trick room/semiroom. Flame orb + gust make it have great offensive strength + its stabs means that the entire metagame receives at least 2 ko from this pokemon. He has problems against rilla + ogerpons priorities and amoongus in trick room can hurt him with leaf storm.

Madaraaaa: T3. Dangerous as hell f is in the right spot but needs specific partners to setup tr and suffers too many high tier pokemons, ogerpons too, and needs often to tera.

Bage1: Tier 3: Yes its a huge threat when positioned correctly under Trick Room but even then it now has to contend with Rillaboom and the Ogers getting Glide to threaten it. I think it kinda needs TR and a lot of support to make work and imo TR in general is not very strong right now. Omnipotent terrain means it can’t click eq so it still has to outplay in TR which can be a struggle.

New -> T1/2

reasoning

Actuarily: T4, doesn’t hit as hard as regular Ursaluna, but still has the bad defensive typing. Its competitive advantage is due to mind eye making things like Flutter Mane not able to play around it. Hyper voice is nice as a spread move, but doesn’t really get KO’s which lets this get attacked back.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Very reasonable alternative to regular Ursaluna, Mind’s Eye means you don’t need to worry about Ghost-types switching around to stall Trick Room turns, and Hyper Voice is a much better spread attack than Ursaluna’s Earthquake which is a big plus for a TR attacker. Calm Mind is an interesting option which lets it function more outside of Trick Room, and worth noting that there’s no turn of setup for Flame Orb required. On the other hand, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon is less bulky and arguably not quite as good against single-targets, but overall there’s enough to use this over regular Ursaluna without it just being worse.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Lower special defense than regular ursa means it can find switching in a lot harder. Setup can work well but needs trick room and can also just be dead if it gets hazed/clear smog’d, which is actually somewhat common right now with other setup mons running around. Non-setup sets aren’t great and setup wants both setup as well as trick room. Sometimes just too many conditionals to get this running.

SMB: tier 4, a bit worse than regular ursaluna but it’s harder to play around because its normal attacks do not have immunities. Having more versatility with its item is really nice as well.

JRL: T4. This pokemon does not have safe changes due to its ability, which means that it can hit ghost type with normal. He needs more turns than his brother ursaluna to be able to hit harder and also has his niche in trick room/semiroom teams.

Madaraaaa: T3. Weaker than ursaluna but with amazing ability. Is faster than gambit, hands, diancie so can be powerful also outside tr. I like seed bulky set or life orb too. But like the regular bear suffers too many common typings.

Bage1: Tier 3: As opposed to normal Ursaluna, Bloodmoon can at times struggle to deal damage if it isn’t given proper space to set up. Grassy Seed CM sets have been what I have seen used most which require specific support to make work. Strong unwallable spread with Hyper Voice is a big plus, but its low Special Bulk is very noticeable if it can’t get set up in time. I think this mon is quite unexplored and unproven in general.

New -> T2/3

reasoning

Actuarily: UR. Poor man’s Iron Hands

Yoda2798: UR. Zero reason to use this when Iron Hands exist, even if it didn’t I highly doubt Conkeldurr would be viable, Mach Punch isn’t enough to carry it.

Nido-Rus: UR. Not a useless mon but no good reason to use this over hands which is basically twice as bulky and has fake out.
SMB: UR, iron hands son

JRL: UR. It's not a bad pokemon, but iron hands exist.

Madaraaaa: UR. Iron hands is the top fighter and there are no reasons to use conkeldurr in this metagame.

Bage1: UR: There are a lot of slow attackers that outclass this guy, most notably Iron Hands makes it obsolete if it wasn’t already.

New -> T3/4

reasoning

Actuarily: T5, while it can put stuff to sleep, that isn’t the same as KOing it, so it needs competitive boosts to really hit stuff. There are plenty of physical attacking grasses/Iron Hands that can make this tough to get going, but it has a place since it can win if it does get going.

Yoda2798: Tier 5. Milotic always looks better on paper but ends up not being worth it in practice, no terrain blocking Hypnosis is nice, but it’s still quite meh unless given room to set up. Weaknesses to Ogerpon and Iron Hands make Milotic very reliant on Tera, like the many other setup Pokemon it faces competition from, and Coil is a slower, more passive form of setup compared to the alternatives.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Coil hypnosis can be really strong with just a single free turn to set up, but very much suffers from being a useless mon if it isn’t given that free turn. Can get taunted, hazed, clear smog’d, spored etc etc or just bonked by any of the very hard-hitting mons running around right now.

SMB: Ig it can be tier 5 if its hypnosis set doesn’t run scald and it’s not paired with tspikes

JRL: UR. Coil + hypnosis + tera is the interesting thing about this pokemon. It suffers too much against all meta plants such as rilla, ogerpons etc. Also offensively he has nothing to contribute.

Madaraaaa: Tier 5. Too many strong grass types in the meta and milo has not turns or enough space to coil and recovery. In general there are many water types that perform better.

Bage1: Tier 5: Coil Hypnosis stuff can run away with some games if teams aren’t prepared for it but it basically needs to tera and there is a decent amount of boost sweeper counterplay running around currently. Competitive is a great ability in Lando-t meta at least.

New -> T3

reasoning

Actuarily: UR. The typing is nice, but a lot of the top pokemon don’t even rely on their abilities, like Iron Hands/Ogerpon-Fire/Flutter Mane. Maybe there is a niche for this mon, but I haven’t seen it yet.

Yoda2798: UR. Weezing was really only usable last gen in a limited dex format, cool ability but not actually very good outside of that, and Neutralizing Gas is not good enough alone to carry Weezing, especially when it’s often very double-edged.

Nido-Rus: UR, base weezing is probably a little better and I could see that one in tier 5. You can do some funny shenanigans with ability shield lando + neutralizing gas, but it’s just too frail and passive to accomplish much. The transition from VGC to DOU hurts weezings quite a bit since there’s a lot more room to play around losing your abilities in DOU with the 2 extra mons you can switch to.

SMB: UR, it’s a do nothing mon very often. Ig you’d want to run this 100% because of its ability, but it’s not even that good atm and I think every team should be able to deal with it properly.

JRL: T5. neutralizing gas can be very annoying for some teams and it is a support with access to t spikes + taunt + WOW, which makes it always useful in a battle.

Madaraaaa: Tier 5. Good ability, in specific teams could be interesting with wow, taunt but is a really rare pic, not at level of other tiers.

Bage1: Tier 5: Good typing, has some cool utility, only really works on teams built around its ability which takes a lot of commitment and even then it can often be dead weight and easy to ignore.

New -> T3/4

reasoning

Actuarily: UR. There’s a long list of waters to use over this.

Yoda2798: UR. Hasn’t been good in the past, Competitive alone isn’t enough reason to use. The most notable thing about Empoleon is nice typing, it’s not a particularly good Tera user.

Nido-Rus: UR. Fun mon, no reason to use this. Steel actually hurts it since it can’t take advantage of its competitive boosts against lando very well without tera. Meanwhile it can’t kill flutter without a competitive boost or using a physical move, at which point it would’ve probably been better with defiant aqua jet anyway.

SMB: UR, on my list there are at least 7 better water types to use, one of them being toxapex

JRL: UR. Great improvement with its competitive ability, but it is very tera dependent and does not last long enough against the strongest pokemon in the tier such as chien pao or hands. Being neutral to fire and plant does not suit him as the metagame is.

Madaraaaa: UR. Competitive buffed it but is not so fast, not too slow for tr, is not a significant threat offesively… so UR.

Bage1: UR: Competitive is cool, yes, but it's just at a really awkward speed tier and somehow still wants to tera out of its supposedly great defensive typing.

New -> T1

reasoning

Actuarily: UR, it’s other forms outclass it, the only advantage is this can use an item, but I haven’t seen a set that makes this worthwhile over like Rillaboom.

Yoda2798: Tier 5. Pure Grass-type is bad defensively and offensively, a free item slot is worse than the secondary typing of the other Ogerpon formes. Doesn’t need Safety Goggles for redirecting Amoonguss, isn’t really bulky enough to make great use of Sitrus Berry, and while Defiant and a Speed boost with Tera does lean into going offensive, mono Grass STAB is super stinky. I’m not really convinced it has a serious use case over the other formes, but it’s still an Ogerpon so I wouldn’t have it unranked just yet.

Nido-Rus: UR, glorified zarude. Defiant is nice but if you tera you lose defiant and don’t actually get to fix any of its typing issues. Plain grass with no tera option to remove flying, bug, or fire weaknesses (all of which are mitigated through tera for the ogerpon forms) is not worth the speed boost, especially since you don’t get to boost anything but the base grass stab. Usable coverage but nothing that actually hits hard. Funny ladder sweep mon but you never want to switch this in and never want to tera with it.

SMB: Tier 5, it can run over unprepared teams but the opportunity cost of not running a different ogerpon is high

JRL: UR. There are better plant pokemon that do all the necessary functions for a better team than this pokemon. The advantage of putting an item on this ogerpon does not give him enough advantage in this meta where his fire and water companions can do everything better than him and with a better type

Madaraaaa: Tier 5. If you want an ogerpon the other three are better, if you want a grass pure rillaboom is better. I don’t see space for this ogerpon in the meta.

Bage1: Tier 5: Using this means you can’t use all the busted ones but it's still an Ogerpon at the end of the day so it gets to be ranked.

New -> T1

reasoning

Actuarily: T1. Great typing, hits like a truck, has a ton of good moves, and has an incredible double ability that works in its favor both of it Tera’s or doesn’t. There’s very little that is keeping this in check, the main issue is that it wants all of its speed & offense, so it isn’t super bulky, and it’s only a single target threat.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. In the higher end of Tier 2, Very strong fast, single target attacker, and a strong offensive Tera option. Several viable third slot options, Follow Me provides a lot of unique utility to more offensive teams that can’t fit the usually quite passive redirectors. No spread option and being on the frailer side hold it back a little though. Competition from Ogerpon-Wellspring and other Fire-types like Chi-Yu hold back the number of teams Hearthflame fits on as well.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. I was considering tier 1 but the meta has adapted around this pretty well, lots of strong fast offense that can out-offense firepon. This being as good as it is plays a big part in why trick room comps are harder to make and use viably right now, it just obliterates stuff it outspeeds.

SMB: tier 2, the best ogerpon offensively. The attack boost + sun being a weather relatively easy to fit sets the difference. Overall a really good pokemon but not at the level that a tier 1 pokemon should be.

JRL: T2. Its +1 attack after its teracrystallization makes it an incredible offensive pokemon, it can 2 ko any pokemon in the metagame, except heatran which is a full counter. It is also more destructive on sun teams, which are currently more common manually, increasing its fire-type movement. It has great speed, surpassing a large part of the meta and it also has defenses that prevent it from dying from any blow, making this pokemon a threat at any time in combat.

Madaraaaa: T2. Best ogerpon offensively, good speed tier and with tera is really powerful, in sun/tailwind teams but also with grassy glide plus rilla. Has swords dance, focus energy… could be difficult to stop its power. Puts pressure and has good coverage but there are faster pokemons (flutter, tornadus) and bulky pokemons (iron hands) that face it well. Also defensively is not so good, T2 is enough.

Bage1: Tier 2: Tippity top of tier 2 maybe tier 1 and probably suspect worthy but not quite reaching Flutter Mane’s power levels and versatility so I don’t want to put it with Flutter. Hearthflame is the most offensive form and it makes a great addition to the already popular sun offense archetypes. Its so easy to stack boosts and take ludicrous KOs with Ivy Cudgle, and it has a ton of support and setup options with enough bulk to let it stick around.

New -> T1

reasoning

Actuarily: T2, slightly worse than the fire version, but still is probably the best water mon in the tier. Is a better defensive option, with things like follow me & spikes.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Offensive typing and Tera boost are not as great for Ogerpon-Wellspring as Hearthflame, but Water is still pretty good offensive while being even better defensively, especially for redirecting with Follow Me. Defensive qualities lend it to investing in bulkier spreads, which is a much better option on Wellspring than Hearthflame.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2, more support oriented than firepon but still amazing offensively. Bulky follow me is solid, SD horn leech/glide is good. Water/grass is really nice offensive coverage.

SMB: tier 2, best ogerpon defensively and easily the best water type at the moment. Their offensive sets are really good as well so it’s a bit more versatile than its fire version, and this is what makes it closer to tier 1 in my opinion, nevertheless none of them reach the level that a tier 1 pokemon should have.

JRL: T3. Its +1 in esp def makes this pokemon more defensive in its function, it is the best follow me user and at the same time it also has an offensive presence. I think it fits better on balanced teams and as support for pokes with set up moves.

Madaraaaa: T2. Best ogerpon defensively, with also good offensive coverage. I see more sense to make it defensive, has sinergy with spdef boost with tera, has follow me but at the same time could hit hard good mons like lando, heatran, chi yu because is faster. Is good overall.

Bage1: Tier 2: Not as immediately threatening as Hearthflame but maybe even more splashable with its solid defensive profile. It still threatens big damage with setup options or facilitates teammates with Follow Me. Goes for both but options like Grassy Glide give it a lot of dimension that make it really hard to account for until you know the full set.

New -> T1

reasoning

Actuarily: T4, the worst of the three, but has some cool attributes like getting a spdef boost from sand, and having a neutral typing into types that are commonly used to beat other Ogerpons (flying & poison). It’s also way worse into Iron Hands than the other two, which is a mon you typically you want your grass type to be good into.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Ogerpon-Cornerstone has some unique matchups, like being the only one not weak to Flying (Tornadus), or being able to hit Volcanion super effectively, but overall it’s just worse than Hearthflame and Wellspring. Rock is nice offensively, but with easily the worst Tera boost of the bunch in a Defence boost, Cornerstone is a far worse offensive option than Hearthflame. Defensively the boost is also not as useful as Wellspring’s, who on top of having a better natural defensive typing, is far far better defensively after Tera, with pure Rock-typing being really undesirable. If the two better Ogerpon formes didn’t exist Cornerstone would jump up higher, but if anything I can see this sliding downwards as there’s little reason to use it over them.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Rock stab very good, but just the mechanics of how its tera works along with rock as a secondary typing isn’t great for it. Biggest issues imo are its flutter, hands, and lando matchups. Firepon gains a resistance to fairy on tera, while waterpon gets a spdef boost. No such help against flutter for rockpon. Hands can more reliably switch in against rock cudgel and always has a SE fighting move option, unlike the other forms which it can generally only hit for neutral damage. Finally, rock stab or tera rock doesn’t help as much against lando. Water tera boosts water cudgel damage, fire tera negates intimidate, while rock tera just trades bug weakness for +1 def and a new ground weakness while remaining intimidated.

SMB: Tier 4, i think it’s a bit underexplored but has the potential to be better than this, rock is such an amazing offensive type but leaves it exposed to stuff like iron hands, and its tera option is easily the worst out of the three

JRL: T5. With its +1 in def after crystallizing and sturdy make this ogerpon the best SD user. Offensively he has good coverage, but he is slowed down by the steel, making me sometimes hit him as hard as I could and even less so without having an SD on him. Defensively it has the worst type of the ogerpons which means that it does not last much in battle either.

Madaraaaa: T4. Nido-Rus expained well, I totally agree with his description. Iron hands, steel types hit hard also after the plus one defense tera… could have space in offensive team but is not strong as water/fire ogerpon. Unfortunately has not rock slide.

Bage1: Tier 4: This is a lot of just guessing tbh I haven’t played a ton of games with this guy but its still an Ogerpon and shares a lot of the qualities the make the broken ones broken. However it is not the broken ones so it goes down here for now.

T2 -> T3

reasoning

Actuarily: T2, the second best fire type due to its great typing and coverage, but often relies on speed control as it’s often double targeted to be eliminated quickly.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. I think Volcanion should drop but disagree that it’s down to Heatran being better (see my vote on Heatran) or from being bad into Ogerpons. Heatran is a massive Tera hog in comparison to Volcanion and gets 2HKOed Ivy Cudgel from Hearthflame (which is the more threatening STAB) while Volcanion eats that and forces Ogerpon to use its inferior STAB, which also applies in the case of Wellspring where it matches much better obviously - at the end of the pre-DLC meta I very much think Volcanion was the better of the two for comparison. The real problem here (along with Trick Room being worse which does significantly hurt it) is that since Volcanion is both a Fire- and Water-type, it stacks types with both the good Ogerpon formes. That disincentivises using both together (compared to Wellspring + different Fire or Hearthflame + other goodstuffs), and since one of those two Ogerpon formes are on ~50% of teams that blocks Volcanion from fitting onto many teams.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Biggest changes for this guy is that semiroom teams are harder to run and volcanion isn’t as good into ogerpons as the other fires. Doesn’t fit into tailwind comps as well as the other fires too.

SMB: Tier 3, this happens to volcanion from time to time, not a bad pokemon but there are better options for a fire type slot and better option for a water type slot. A fire type that doesn’t resist grass is not that good either.

JRL: T3. It is still a great special tank with its AV set, but it has taken a backseat due to the competition it has from being a fire type, ogerpon fire, chi yu, heatran. It always has a place on semi-room teams and has a wide movepool to deal damage to the vast majority of the meta with great bulk.

Madaraaaa: T3. Volcanion is still good. Can face multiple aggressive leads, chi yu, flutter mane, all ogerpons… bulky av is almost impossible to kill in one hit. Has also haze, wow… can control multiple scenarios and the typing is amazing offensively. Is not aggressive as chi yu or ogerpon fire but in semiroom balanced teams is okay, even if the meta is oriented to fast offensive teams.

Bage1: Tier 3: I think Heatran has firmly overpassed Volc as a bulky fire type while Chi Yu has filled the offensive role more. Being neutral to grass ends up hurting Volc a lot with the Ogerpons entering the tier. Needs to be AV to check Flutter but also wants boots because it doesn’t check Flutter after taking rocks. Still a good pokemon, just a bit more awkward to fit right now.

T2 -> T1

reasoning

Actuarily: T1. Still is such a great glue mon, enables other Ogerpons, and is a shaky check into so many of the top threats (other than Ogerpon-Hearthflame) like Iron Hands/Flutter Mane/Ogerpon-Wellspring.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Grassy Glide was a good (re)addition for Rillaboom, but Ogerpon actually hinders it more than it helps, since many teams will want one of those instead, while few will want both Ogerpon and Rillaboom together. Ogerpon’s ability to redirect away Grassy Glide from teammates like Flutter Mane also limits Rillaboom’s effectiveness. Some other meta shifts like Landorus-T being more offensive hurt it, but Ogerpon eating into its usage share is by far the biggest knock.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Glide is good, fake out is good, being a bulky pivot is good. Having said that, it can be too passive facing torn oger offense stuff, doesn’t appreciate follow mes from oger, or higher lando, roaring moon, kommo, snow, torn usage. Still solid enough for tier 2 despite all of this

SMB: tier 1, enables a lot of stuff and trades very well with almost anything, momentum, fake out, you can get wrong by using rillaboom

JRL: T2. 2nd best support in the metagame after hands, with his AV set he can do a great job vs flutter who with his priority can always do 2 ko, or against any special attacker by returning the ko after teracrystallizing. Enables ogerpons to perform grassy glide on grass field with priority.

Madaraaaa: T2. Nerfed glide can only chip pokemons that could stay and endure the hit, in SS rilla threaten more. Is not the fundamental role of this pokemon but is a flaw, suffers chien pao, oger fire, tornadus, chi yu that are really common. For sure is an amazing pivot, has strong hammer, offers the terrain for ogerpons, has fake out, taunt and u-turn. Is weaker than last gen but still solid.

Bage1: Tier 2: Grassy Glide is really good for this guy, and it's still one of the most splashable mons in the tier, but it is not Tier 1 (Flutter) level. The Glide bp nerf is very noticeable, and there are a ton of mons that do decent into Rilla right now like all the Fires, Torn, Bax snow stuff, and Lando-t.

T2 -> T5

reasoning

Actuarily: T4. Being forced to switch out early is tougher in our current fast paced metagame, and it so often has to Tera due to the omnipresence of grasses & Iron Hands. The most common ground mon also being an intim mon also isn’t great for it. But with all that being said, it still has value due to how outrageously good Jet Punch is with its massive attack stat, it just needs a ton of more effort in the builder to make it work.

Yoda2798: Tier 5. Grassy Glide and being replaced by Ogerpon-Wellspring does hurt the viability of offensive sets, but those weren’t the best before anyways. Bulk Up was falling off already pre-DLC, but along with Ogerpon not giving it room to set up (and kind of being able to do a similar thing with Swords Dance but I’d say not quite the same), Kommo-o does a similar thing but infinitely better. Kommo-o can be fast/bulky setup with Drain Punch, except it gets STAB on Drain Punch, can get Intimidate immunity and deal with Amoonguss at the same time, boosts the Special Defence side as well, and doesn’t require switching around baby forme either. Could easily see Palafin going unranked in the future, it’s super outclassed now.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. As bagel mentioned, another case of ogerpon both crowding out its role as well as beating it itself. Hates seeing sunny day torn comps, hates oger, hates rilla now getting glide. Still has enough value esp with rain dance torn to warrant tier 4 imo.

SMB: tier 4, still the best rain sweeper and can work outside of rain if the tera is locked into it

JRL: T5. The arrival of the ogerpons, grassy glide and sinitscha means that the viability of this pokemon is greatly affected both offensively where it is very difficult for there to be no min 2 pokemon that can stop it but also defensively, where the threats it already had previously must be add the new pokemon that most harm it.

Madaraaaa: T4. Fell in usage because of many grass pokemons, I think is really strong overall and can be a threat also not in rain teams.

Bage1: Tier 5: Wow I’m mentioning Grassy Glide and Ogerpons again. Palafin was already on the downswing and this felt like a death knell for it. Needing to switch out on lead is actually really really exploitable by good players and annoying to cover for in builder, while trying to switch Palafin in and out midgame can be even more of a pain. There is still a lot of sun to make its life suck, and Wellspring Ogerpon gives it competition as a physical water-type attacker that is way easier to use. Not UR because the raw power of Palafin in rain still needs to be respected.

T3-> T5

reasoning

Actuarily: T5, ogerpons were really tough for this, as Lando really needs to be faster than other offensive threats, and it doesn’t like the damage drop from running scarf. While ground/poison coverage is pretty nice, everything it wants to hit with it is either faster (Ogerpons) or bulky with AV (Iron Hands/Volcanion).

Yoda2798: Tier 5. Was already eyeing up a drop pre-DLC, Landorus-T is just so much better (and the one good Intimidate), while Landorus-I’s speed is pretty awkward in the current meta, combined with its natural level of bulk which is not the best (and if you want to invest in it or use Assault Vest then Landorus-T is much better). Being slower than Ogerpon is a big big blow where if Landorus was faster that would really change things, but when Ogerpon dunks on you (even Hearthflame hitting neutrally does a lot) along with all the faster attackers really, Landorus-I is in a weird spot of being “fast” but not actually fast, and not bulky enough or offering much else to be worth it.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Slower than oger really sucks for it and mostly forces it into a defensive tera. Very dependent on tailwind support, but right now it’s surprisingly pretty good with that- ground/poison is really nice right now for hitting hands, rilla, and oger. Pre-dlc this would’ve been straight to tier 5.

SMB: tier 5 and i’m only considering scarf sets, frail, hard to fit, life orb sets lose to almost anything that is faster and the worst thing is if you use this you can’t use lando-t

JRL: T5. Ogerpon + flutter + torna is an archaeotype that is the order of the day and that harms the viability of this pokemon. It is also not good against cresselia in semiroom, making it have a more limited niche than previously.

Madaraaaa: T5. Therian is better in general, incarnate form suffers pokemons faster than it, is more frail and has not the pivoting structure of therian form.

Bage1: Tier 5: Using this means you cannot use Lando-t, which also walls this. Loses to Flutter, loses to Pao, naturally slower than Ogerpons(!), needs tailwind to be effective and it doesn’t create pins as well as you would like.

T2 -> T3

reasoning

Actuarily: T2. While it still has to Tera a lot, it’s one of the best users of Tera. It’s coverage is still great, and it has a lot of good matchups still into stuff like Flutter Mane. Definitely worse off right now, but just went from the top of t2 to the bottom.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Heatran was already sliding down Tier 2 a bit pre-DLC in my eyes, with competition from Ogerpon-Hearthflame now I’m sold on a drop. Massive Tera hog, which the other Fire-types are much better for, and using Tera loses the valuable resists offered by its base typing, such as to Flutter Mane. That’s a really big point so it’s worth elaborating: it is really not good to have your Fire-type be so reliant on Tera as that limits your ability to use other Pokemon which also are, like Kingambit or other setup Pokemon (this is less of an issue in VGC where you can choose to leave one behind). Heatran is also a Fire-type that doesn’t resist Ogerpon-Hearthflame’s Ivy Cudgel, even after the typical Tera types, which is not ideal. In SCL usage so far Heatran has 3 uses to Chi-Yu’s 9, Ogerpon-Hearthflame’s 10, and Kingambit’s 12, it is just not on the same level as them. It’s not bad, but you’re usually better saving your Tera and using a Fire-type that works well without needing to commit it.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Solid into ogerpon, still amazing into flutter which still exists, a lot better into torn than the other fires. Best tera is quite definitively fairy at this point for the better torn, chien pao, fire oger, and lando matchups.

SMB: tier 2, probably the best steel resist, i’ve seen too many teams lose to gholdengo because they tera their one and only steel resist in heatran too early. Still does the things it did before dlc and it’s still great at it. Checks a lot of the top tier pokemon, great at spreading damage and one of the best tera options in any team.

JRL: T2. With AV it is a great special tank, holding up well to flutter (which it does 1 ko) + torna + chi yu core. With tera fairy you can win 1 vs 1 at kommo set up. It can fit into several team archetypes and has a good movepool with wow, sub, rocks, taunt, magma storm etc.

Madaraaaa: T2. Versatile fire type with great moves, ability and stats. With the possibility of tera fairy, grass, fire can easily stay in front of lando, iron hands and be a good damage dealer. I like assault vest item on heatran, but also life orb or other offensive versions are valuable. Can face multiple high tier pokemons, tornadus, flutter, chi yu… is really solid.

Bage1: Tier 2: Great all around fat guy that soft checks a ton of the tier, one of the best abusers of tera defensively. Fairy Heatran is really strong and obnoxious for a lot of teams to remove. It's also flexible with its moveset as well and not beholden to using AV. It has access to broken moves Stealth Rock and Will-O-Wisp and has good coverage into lots of threats. Leftovers, Sitrus, or Covert Cloak are extremely usable on Heatran.

T2 -> T3

reasoning

Actuarily: T3. While it’s still an excellent enabler with its ability, the typing makes it worse into so many of the top threats that other fire types are much better into like Flutter Mane, Iron Hands, Chien-Pao, etc. It was better off in the Basculegion metagame as a scarfer. Still can be really strong, but requires a lot of its checks to be gone first.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. In SCL so far, Chi-Yu is just behind Ogerpon-Hearthflame in uses, and has more than Heatran and Volcanion combined, it’s still going strong and easily the best of the three non-Ogerpon Fire-types. Very strong offensively along with a pretty good Speed tier, and boasts the massive selling point of access to a strong spread move over Ogerpon-Hearthflame, helping it easily find a place on offensive teams. Out of the Fire-types, Chi-Yu has by far the best set versability too which lets it adapt to the needs of many teams, even if its offensive sets are the best currently.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Offense is the premier archetype right now and chi yu is (one of) the best premier offense mons. Bulkier slower sets are worse off but fast, strong offensive sets are better than ever. Chi yu flutter still a broken combo, and chi yu boosting torn’s damage can make bleakwind hits do pretty solid chip damage.

SMB: Tier 2, it faces a lot of competition for the fire type slot but has a huge variety of sets, all of them are good and generally doesn’t have safe switch ins

JRL: T2. With flutter + tornadus on offensive teams sun continues to do a great job. He has great offensive strength and has reasonable special bulk with AV, which makes him hold up for the special while also hitting very hard. He also has a nasty plot that, accompanied by screens or seed grass, can set up and win entire teams. He also powers his teammates' special moves with his own ability. Tera ghost avoids getting fake out and tera fairy with terablast is a good answer to hands.

Madaraaaa: T2. Pressures opponent with incredible offensive power, can be used choice specs, scarf, life orb, bulky with seed, etc: in every case chi yu is a blade into opponents defense, can ko/ruin opponents hp. Dark fire is a great composition, fits with sunny day tornadus, offers more oppressive power to special attackers like flutter mane creating a devastating duo. Is T2.

Bage1: Tier 2: Choice Specs Chi Yu has unrivaled damage output in the tier. Nothing else can provide so much pressure on turn 1, and it's relatively simple to give it free turns to click Heat Wave. Some games Chi Yu can just 2hko every mon on the opponents team. Obviously not a free win button but perhaps the most potent attacker in the format with speed support. Of course there are other sets such as AV and more supportive Wisp sets that also need to be respected because Chi Yu gets to cheat and still do damage even if you don’t invest in its offense.

T2 -> T1

reasoning

Actuarily: T1. Flying is such a great offensive type due to the amount of grass pokemon, and this is the biggest enabler of offense, and has become a premier weather setter for teams that don’t necessarily need weather, but would like it. It’s absolutely a staple of the metagame.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Prankster Tailwind is really big, but there are times where Tornadus struggles to get much done beyond clicking Tailwind, or it will get to set Tailwind once in a match. Definitely really strong at the moment and the best speed control option, but not every team wants one, and it doesn’t consistently do enough on top of Tailwind. (Yes Bleakwind Storm is threatening in the right positions, and other moves like weather or Taunt have their spots, but Tornadus still ends up being ineffectual too often.)

Nido-Rus: Tier 1. Defines offense right now. Bulkier sets that can do things other than set tailwind are ending up quite a bit more useful than max offense sets. The value of priority tailwind, especially in late game, is far too overbearing- especially against booster speed pokemon that otherwise clean up endgame scenarios.

SMB: Tier 2, although prankster tailwind is great atm, tornadus stops being great after it clicks that move and turns out on a big momentum drain since it is walled fairly easily by many stuff

JRL: T2. It is the pokemon that makes good HO with its tailwind pranster, the best in the format. It has numerous support taunt moves, scare face, all weather and hits the 2 pokemon with its characteristic move. With covert coat you ensure tailwind on turn 1 and with defensive evs you can make it last longer on the field, ensuring speed control. I think it's not tier 1 because it doesn't do a good job when the trick room is active, making it useless in that situation, but in all other scenarios it's a good pokemon.

Madaraaaa: T2. Prankster tailwind, taunt, sunny day and other utility moves make tornadus the best tailwind setter of the metagame and also a good supporter. Offensive pokemons need it to shine with speed control/weather advantage and when you build a fast HO you usually think to torn at first. Plus has a cool strong flying move double target, is a complete pokemon.

Bage1: Tier 2: Still great for offense, especially bulky variants that can actually take hits and set TW more than once, but there are other speed control options such as Moon and Booster Flutter/Bundle. There is still a lot of bulk in the format to just live through TW turns and there are plenty of boards where Torn just sits there awkwardly clicking bleakwind into mons that don’t care.

T4 -> T3

reasoning

Actuarily: T4. Scarf is definitely the best set, and is good into a lot of the metagame like the Ogerpons, Tornadus, Chien-Pao, etc. However, there’s not a whole lot it is able to switch into, so it’s lead like 90% of the time, which allows the opponent to counter lead it frequently.

Yoda2798: Tier 5. “Free” rocks as in its attached to an attack, but that doesn’t mean Kleavor is worth using, even before it was limited to quite a specific sort of team. Often ends up getting to use Stone Axe once and that’s it which isn’t really worth it. If you want to trade a slot for hazards there’s Glimmora, if you just want Stealth Rock then there are better Pokemon like Landorus-T you can fit it onto; the Rock-typing is kind of nice offensively but mostly a downside and you can still cover Rock coverage with better Pokemon if you want it.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5. Worse than ever. Free rocks is nice but it has 0 valuable resists and there’s just way too much right now that outspeeds this and blows it up. Ogerpon, flutter, more heatran over volcanion, more lando-t.

SMB: tier 5, momentum good, kleavor bad (very). I still can see it doing ok in some hyper offense teams tho

JRL: T4. Stone ax is the greatest virtue of this pokemon, putting rocks on the field while doing damage to your opp is very good. The set scarf needs to be jolly to make ouspeed a flutter, chien pao and bundle, which makes it lose offensive potential. AV is another viable set on offensive teams with tornadus, making it last longer on the field and can do more damage.

Madaraaaa:T5. Good only in specific ho teams, can put rocks but in general is too slow to shine and exist better and stronger offensive pokemon.

Bage1: Tier 5: Free Rocks (90% of the time) is cool but this feels like such an awkward mon to use and it’s competing with a lot of better mons for the supporting slot it tries to fill. It has a truly horrendous typing and offers very little defensively. If you are desperate for Rock STAB there are better options.

T4 -> T3

reasoning

Actuarily: T4. As many have mentioned, it was in a better spot before the Basculegion ban, and even then it was probably a T4 Pokémon. It really wishes it had a better ghost move than Phantom Force so it doesn’t have to Tera ghost. Can still work on the right teams, but isn’t very splashable.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Naturally outspeeding Choice Scarf Basculegion was one of the biggest selling points for Dragapult, without that it’s just an awkward optional partner for Chien-Pao. Weak to Sucker Punch, very vulnerable to Booster Energy/speed control, a bit reliant on Tera, and also reliant on opponents being weakened into range, usually.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Would’ve taken it to tier 3 pre-dlc but post-dlc booster speed flutter and sun have become a lot more popular, making it much harder for pult to beat what it wants to beat. Glide ogerpon, glide rilla, and more prankster tailwind also all make pult easier to deal with than before.

SMB: tier 4 or 5, i just don’t see why you would run this instead of flutter mane (apart from checking unboosted flutter mane). I guess some dd sets could be threatening? Specially with more stuff getting follow me, but I haven’t seen this mon get usage in ages tbh.

JRL: T4. I think it needs too much support to do work, stop the priority of chien pao's sucker punch, gambit... and it depends a lot on the use of tera to do greater damage, tera ghost + terblast is the most common. It also needs chien pao to do more damage, because it falls short. It is true that Basculegion's ban benefits him, but there is still a flutter + energy boost that makes him 1 ko.

Madaraaaa: T4. Fastest pokemon of metagame but suffers too many priority moves and booster speed flutter mane/roaring moon/bundle etc. Is too frail for this metagame, but with chien pao and the tera at the right moment can be a fast strong physical killer.

Bage1: Tier 4: With Basc gone I don’t really think there’s anything that different about the meta that makes it deserve to be higher than it was previously. Threatening, strong, attacker that relies on Tera to deal with the #1 mon in the tier and also doesn’t beat all variants of it.

T5 -> T3

reasoning

Actuarily: T3. Acrobatics & knock off is super good coverage right now, and if you want different typing or more bulk than Torn than Roaring Moon can work. The main downside is how bad it is into Flutter & Iron Hands, so you have to be good into those elsewhere.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. The recent mini revival of Roaring Moon has shown then there’s more to it still than I had previously thought, but Tier 3 is a step too far when it still largely struggles from the same flaws as before as stated by Nido-Rus. Knock Off is a nice buff to its damage/utility though.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Proto speed tailwind knock is solid, but it still suffers from being tera hungry but not actually delivering enough on clicking tera. Weak to flutter and slower than flutter is rough. Acro being great into ogerpon is nice though.

SMB: Tier 4, probably the second best tailwind pokemon. The thing is that it is miles away from the best one, and very often requires tera due to its bad typing.

JRL: T3. With his tera fly he is very good against all ogerpons, forcing them to do tera if they do not want Moon to do 1 ko on them, and now he learns knock off by stab, being able to remove objects from the opp. He is the 2nd best tailwind setter and can do great in the support role with taunt, breaking swipe, snarl. In addition, it can be played with seed grass + dd, being a great set-up threat, which makes Moon a very versatile pokemon that fits into various play styles.

Madaraaaa: T3. Second best tailwind setter. Obviously needs to be careful to flutter mane, but with speed booster energy can use knock off and kill/do amazing damages and removing items. Has acrobatics, breaking swipe, taunt, brick break, stomping tantrum… has a versatile movepool. Is T3 because needs to tera in front of hands or flutter mane most of the times, but under screen or with redirection can easily avoid that danger. I like the tailwind setter version but I see potential in specific teams with clear amulet, dragon dance. T3.

Bage1: Tier 3: Fast Knock off is extremely easy to click on more supportive TW sets, opens up lots of cool combinations like Knock + Moonblast into Iron Hands. It's a stats + tw mon that offers more damage, bulk and specialized utility in exchange for prankster TW. Dragon is a solid defensive type if you can gameplan for Moon to dodge Flutter (easier said than done). Alternatively DD sets can be very potent wincons but require a decent amount of support to really make work.

T2 -> T3

reasoning

Actuarily: T3. Ogerpon-Hearthflame is the worst thing for this, and Tornadus’ popularity is also terrible for it. The other Ogerpons also get the superior redirector move in follow me, so there’s a lot of competition for a grass redirector. However, it can still be extremely effective if well played.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Amoonguss was already on the lower end of Tier 2 before, with the rise of Ogerpon and fall of Trick Room this is an easy drop for me. Amoonguss cannot redirect or really touch Ogerpon, which is a big hole in its supportive capabilities when it’s such a major threat. On the flip side, Ogerpon can also redirect Amoonguss with Follow Me without needing to commit to Safety Goggles, and unlike Rillaboom, Ogerpon-Hearthflame can threaten it on top of natural immunity as well. With three better Grass-types available, and other redirectors which are not as slow and can redirect Grass-types, you need a good reason to justify Amoonguss now more than ever, and while Trick Room was one before it’s not as much of one at the moment.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Always the kind of mon that picks up viability the more people think it’s losing viability and falling out of favor. Best anti-setup mon, still best redirection mon, and always need to prep to make sure teams aren’t too spore weak. Holding together bulky balance.

SMB: Tier 2, although grass spam is somewhat popular and some of these grass types can run follow me, it is still great at what it does and many teams stopped running proper sleep checks due to its low usage atm

JRL: T3. I think the competition in plant types has lowered the popularity of amoongus. Being redirected by the ogerpons means that it cannot put its rivals to sleep, making these new pokemon have a support function similar to that of amoongus. Additionally, the core tornadus + flutter + chi yu / ogerpon fire make it look threatened at all times. But it's still good to check in trick room.

Madaraaaa: T3. Amoong remains a top supporter, but with massive presence of ogerpons is a little worst, now more pokemons of the meta can take the spore and cannot be redirected by among that risks to be too passive. But remains in general a fantastic pokemon.

Bage1: Tier 2: Amoonguss still has broken moves Spore, Rage Powder, and Pollen Puff. Yes it is now worse with Ogerpons in the meta but I look at tier 3 and I think Amoonguss is just better than all those mons. It is still perhaps the best Flutter and the best Hands answer, and it still demands a ton of attention by threatening Spore and Rage Powder into most of the metagame. Cress is way less popular so sleep is actually scary to lots of the TR teams that tend to be Diancie or Farigiraf based, where they have to either sack their item slot to run goggles or burn Tera.

 

[Actuarily]

Part two for length:

T1 -> T2

reasoning

Actuarily: T1. Still is the best mon in the format, even though it is pressured by Flutter & Ogerpon-fire. Nothing else has its incredible combo of stats, coverage, and ability to be supportive or just win games with a SD/BD.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Barely just in Tier 2, Landorus-T being as widespread as it is keeps Iron Hands in check, and setup sets don’t have enough room to breathe at the moment, especially with Trick Room support being less readily available. Tera Fire is a nice option for Flutter Mane and Fire-types, but keeps the Ground weakness, there’s no easy route for Iron Hands to dominate a game. Assault Vest is still really good, but I think Iron Hands is not quite Tier 1 at the moment.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Was debating between tier 1 and 2, but def going with 2 after the past couple weeks. Ogerpons are great into it and spiky shield is particularly nice for chipping away at iron hands HP. Flutter stays and is as good or better than ever. Lando is very common and good right now. Tera fairy tran is now pretty common and great into hands. It’s much harder to run SD hands too with semiroom comps not really having the space to support setup hands, so hands is limited to mostly just its standard AV role.

SMB: tier 1, best pokemon in the tier, can check almost everything, can win games on its own, probably the most annoying pokemon to take down, fits into every playstyle…

JRL: T1. It is viable in all team styles of this metagame, incredible bulk, ability to set up with SD or BD, with its AV set it is a great special tank being able to make 1 ko flutter, chien pao, chi yu, heatran, tornadus etc. . Fake out support, it can pivot with volt switch, the truth is it is an incredibly good pokemon

Madaraaaa: T1. Okay, suffers flutter and lando, can kill it with heavy slam or ice punch thanks to the incredible bulk has. Is simply great, has fake out, amazing typing and coverage, can win with swords dance drain punch set. Is everywhere and can be used in every type of team, and in practice in this meta has not an ability, is surely the best pokemon with flutter mane.

Bage1: Tier 2: It is still great, just not as good as Flutter (been saying that one a lot hmm). It needs Tera more often than before and the metagame feels too fast for SD or BD sets to be super viable right now. Flutter + the Ogerpons pressure it hard but it's still one of best anti-offense mons in the tier and AV sets can trade at least 1 for 1 with just about everything.

T3 -> T4

reasoning

Actuarily: T3. Basculegion ban is really good for this, as previously you wasted too many turns with Cress being on the field during TR, and then Basc would clean up once TR was done. Still the most reliable TR setter, and has tons of utility.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Trick Room is in a really rough spot right now, with the level of offensive power going around its difficult to set, even for Cresselia. I do think there’s still room to explore different builds though, I think some people have been a bit quick to dismiss Cresselia entirely.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. I’ve touched on this with my other mon reasonings but cresselia bulky balance is somewhat dead right now. Firepon offense runs over this too easily, as well as a bunch of the other offense mons. It also hates hail since its teams can’t really stop veil from going up and don’t have great ways to break veil. Think it still has enough value for tier 4 with ursaluna comps, but it’s def not doing too well, could see it drop to 5 by next shift.

SMB: tier 4, do nothing mons are in a very bad spot at the moment because one free turn is punished a lot by too many stuff. I just don’t see how having cress in the field for more than 1 turn is good for any team, unless it has ursaluna, but probably not even in these cases.

JRL: T3. If you are not prepared for cress it can be very annoying, 2nd best tr setter in the meta in my opinion with the ability to heal life and altered states to the partner, helping hand, ally switch, it is a support par excellence. It can also be used with CM to set up, making it a win condition with the right support.

Madaraaaa: T3. Still really solid and helpful pokemon, even if seems not the best period for trickroom teams. Can face and hit with ice beam and psychic lando, iron hands and is a good switch in for this high tier mons. I keep cresselia in T3.

Bage1: Tier 5: Do nothing Mon that is way too slow paced for the current metagame. Is a literal dead slot a lot of the time and can be actively detrimental to the team. Offense can stall out Cress TR more easily now or simply KO the Cress with stuff like funny Ogerpon moves.

T3 -> T4

reasoning

Actuarily: T5, as many have said, Torn is much superior. Most rain teams currently don’t rely as much on rain, they just like to have it if given the opportunity. Idk what to call it, semi-rain?

Yoda2798: Tier 5. Rain is not that great right now (and wasn’t the best pre-DLC already) as others have explained, and Rain Dance Tornadus does the job better anyways.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5. Rain dance torn is massively better and saves a ton with role compression. Rain isn’t a great archetype right now with all the priority/proto tailwind icy wind stuff, prankster sunny day torn, follow me waterpon etc going around. Instead torn manages much better with rain dance as a tech option.

SMB: tier 5, there are at least 2 weathers that are more popular than rain, and both have a good matchup against it. None of the rain sweepers is specially good atm either.

JRL: T5. The weather manually (tornadus pranster) is gained from all Pokémon that use their weather due to their ability, since they have limited functions in the metagame. Peliper has tailwind + helping hand + weather doing a good job on some occasions, offensively he can hit ogerpons, rilla, heatran or chi yu, but he doesn't take their hits well. Furthermore, after Basculegión's ban he does not have good rain abusers, which causes the play style to decrease in use.

Madaraaaa: T5. Torn controls weather with rain dance or sunny day, pelipper has not the stats to be relevant in the meta also because paladin suffers ogerpons, basculegion is banned… rain is a T4/5 archetype now.

Bage1: Tier 5: Rain Dance Torn is just better than this and rain isn’t exactly in the best place right now. Pelipper is often just a momentum sink and really vulnerable defensively while not being a threatening offensive presence, even with all of the new grass types for it to hit with Hurricane.

T3 -> T4

reasoning

Actuarily: T4, while it has similar issues with torn being arguably a better sun setter, Torkoal still has value as a TR attacker as well.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Sunny Day Tornadus fits a lot better with the Pokemon that benefit from sun than Torkoal (on top of being a better Pokemon). Unlike Pelipper though, Torkoal is a real Pokemon if you can get Trick Room up (which is a big ask at the moment, but still), and sun as a weather is better than rain at the moment.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Another manual sun moment, along with TR being a lot harder to run + managing to fit torkoal on trick room being a lot harder. Still valuable for chunky TR eruptions if you can get it in the right position

SMB: tier 5, i think a team has to commit a lot by running torkoal (either by running 2-3 slow pokemon or just by running a sun setter eject button bot). At that point is probably just better to have sunny day tornadus.

JRL: T4. The same as peliper, it is very affected by sunny day tornadus, but torkoal has a niche in addition to sun teams and they are the trick room teams where it is an excellent sweeper, making it in my opinion that it is ahead of pelipper, but much inferior to the weather manual.

Madaraaaa: T4. Not really present now but still a massive threat in trickroom and gives sinergy with proto/fire pokemons.

Bage1: Tier 4: Once again I fail to see what this does better than Manual weather Torn as a weather setter for offense. Clicking rocks and wisp is cute but imagine having an actual fast threat doing damage. Goes to 4 instead of 5 like Pelipper because sun is better than rain right now and Eruption Torkoal under TR still shouldn’t be taken lightly.

New -> T3

reasoning

Actuarily: T4. Snow giving this a def boost is huge, as it can be bulky & fast and reliably get off aurora veils, however it doesn’t have much value beyond that as it has no offensive presence. Once it set veil it just either clicks blizzards hoping for freezes, or uses some niche support moves like Encore/Icy Wind.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Aurora Veil is a good move; unlike the other screens setters, Ninetales-Alola combines them into one move and has more presence on top, notably with Ice-type being good offensively. Really struggles into other weather, and I can very much see this sliding down over time, but Tier 3 for now is fine.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3, Aveil is very good right now. Ninetales typing is especially valuable bc it forces lando off the field, hits torn, and has good support options in icy wind and encore.

SMB: tier 4, a pokemon that just clicks screens and fishes for freezes or clicks annoying moves that don’t accomplish anything else than burning screen turns before it dies shouldn’t be higher than that

JRL: T3. Aurora veil is incredible making the team much more defensive, it has very good support moves like disable, encore, roar, icy wind etc. Key piece in hail teams with baxcalibur, whose def is increased by the hail, as in bulk off or set up teams, offering incredible support in teammates' defenses.

Madaraaaa: T3. Aurora veil and snow given a space to ninateles. Has also blizzard, icy wind, encore… is T3 for me.

Bage1: Tier 3: Aurora Veil is a broken move. Atales actually has decent speed to take advantage of it + encore all in one package. Hates manual weather Torn which is the best Torn but managing to click Veil p easily makes this tier 3.

T5 -> T2

reasoning

Actuarily: T5. Was better in a meta with Basculegion, but still isn’t worthless, as blocking priority & setting TR still has value.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. I think Farigiraf was solidly Tier 4 before DLC dropped, but now I’m not as sure, though I lean closer to 4 than 5 still. One way unconditional priority blocking is nice, letting you use Fake Out while your opponent cannot, and blocking priority like Sucker Punch or Grassy Glide is nice for faster, frailer teammates. Farigiraf does struggle to do much itself beyond sometimes setting Trick Room, but I think the utility is still enough for Tier 4 for now.

Nido-Rus: Tier 5. Priority blocking is good but it doesn’t actually generate much value on the field through blocking priority. I am a fan of this mon but as more time goes on, the less useful this seems. You pretty much play a 5v6 with the added benefit of threatening anti-priority at any moment, which can be nice, but sometimes just not enough.

SMB: tier 5, indeedee is better in tr teams and in offense teams it just feels very weird to have it, it’s a momentum drain for teams that want anything but that, imprison trick room it’s not even that useful anymore either

JRL: T5. It avoids priorities, it has a good type, it can trick room, it has the ability to set up with nasty plot, the truth is that it is a pokemon that performs several functions, both support and offensive, but it is not one of the best pokemon in any of these functions, being surpassed by indeedee in terms of curbing priorities or diancie and cress in their role as trick room setter. It is a good pokemon but it takes second place due to the competition it has.

Madaraaaa: T4. Super ability that helps partners to be unstoppable, in trickroom but also in tailwind. Is not the best tr setter, and vs some types can be a dead weight.

Bage1: Tier 4: I could see tier 3 maybe before Basc ban, This fits well on lots of offensive styles because priority blocking is super epic. I love Farig but it has a pretty trash typing and doesn’t generate a lot of offensive pressure on its own. Lots of bad teams do fold to Fake Out + TR but against good teams Farig can slow momentum which tends to hurt the often fast paced offense teams it wants to be on.

T2 -> T1

reasoning

Actuarily: T1. It’s the best intimidator, & best ground mon. As the post mentioned, it has great set diversity, and has a reasonably good matchup into most of the top pokemon. It’s not nearly as pivotable as in , but still can get off much needed intimidates in the tier.

Yoda2798: Tier 1. Best Intimidate by far and Intimidate is really good, one of the best Iron Hands checks, great offensively with Stomping Tantrum, and multiple viable sets to fit what your team needs. If you need Speed it can be Choice Scarf (the best user in the meta, and unlike Booster Energy users can switch), Stealth Rock if you want hazards, or Assault Vest to be a really bulky pivot. Haven’t really seen Choice Band post-DLC but that was super good before as well. I won’t rehash zoe’s post but Landorus-T is just a Pokemon that every team wants at the moment, and is practically never dead weight, there’s good reason it’s topping SCL usage ahead of Flutter Mane.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Tier 1 feels like a bit of overcompensation for lando being ranked too low at the start of the home metagame. Definitely a solid reliable option, but certainly not a necessary mon and also not particularly overbearing at any of the roles it does.

SMB: tier 1, this is where lando should be in any dou meta where intimidate is useful

JRL: T1. Best intimidator in the metagame, offensive capacity is his set band or scarf + tera fly vs the ogerpons, rilla or amoongus, ability to pivot, puts hazards, taunt etc. He is capable of entering any style of play and doing work due to his great ability to adopt offensive, defensive and support roles.

Madaraaaa: T2 High usage, high versatility, intimidate, pivoting, good typing, has rocks.
Scarf set with pao can delete ogerpons and rillaboom with terablast and flutter mane too, intimidates hands and hits fire types hard. Depending on the team, could be offensive or bulky supporter (with 145 attack base stat). The special set with sandsear storm is indeed interesting.

Bage1: Tier 2: Not Flutter Mane, but really really good. The meta is really physical right now and Lando-t is the most annoying mon for any physical attacker to see. Even Chien Pao with its great natural type matchup gets really slowed down by intimidate and hates dealing with Stealth Rock. Zoe’s post goes over everything well, its a very flexible mon that can be customized to fill whatever hole a team needs.

New -> T3

reasoning

Actuarily: T4, hospitality is pretty cool as it can pivot around set up pokemon & Ragepowder. The sets built around sweeping with Matcha Gotcha often fall really flat, but it’s a reasonably good move to fish for burns.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Very unique combination of utility that is cool on the right team but quite team specific, especially with multiple better Grass-types available, and several other redirection options. Being able to set Trick Room is also one of Sinistcha’s major selling points, which it struggles to do right now just as other setters. Grass/Ghost typing also has some nice matchups but at the same time has a number of common weaknesses as well, which also holds it back.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Best used on setup oriented teams with hospitality support. It’s unfortunately a little too frail and doesn’t have the best defensive typing, but can certainly get good value from its movepool and typing. Relies a little too hard on supporting setup and can sometimes fall apart if played around well.

SMB: tier 4, cm sets can steal some games but the best set is probably the hospitality one. It’s good enough in teams that run bulky set up and may or may not need trick room
JRL: T4. Pokemon with an incredible support role with its hospitality ability healing 25% of the partner's life after entering the field, rage powder, trick room, strength sap or its characteristic move matcha gotcha that has 20% burn and heals 50% of the damage done. It also has the ability to set up with CM or nasty, but needs a lot of support since it has many common pokemon weaknesses in the meta such as chu yu, chien pao, flutter or heatran.

Madaraaaa: T4. Really interesting pokemon, in bulky semi room team or under screens could be okay, has trickroom, powder heals partner and can double burn opponents. Unfortunately there exist really better grass types and sinistcha doesnt touch chi yu, heatran… is T4.

Bage1: Tier 4: Ghost type with redirection is: epic. Free HP is: epic. Otherwise awkward typing is not so epic. My vendetta against TR continues. I think this is a cool mon that is very usable but only on specific structures that are not the most viable in the current meta.

New -> T3

reasoning

Actuarily: T4, really wishes it’s ability was just defiant, but has good typing & movepool that gives it some niche over Iron Hands. Very reliant on speed control, but can be really difficult to switch into due to its coverage & stats.

Yoda2798: Tier 5. Okidogi seems niche to me, to put it politely, and with very little tour usage to back it up I’m really not convinced it should be any higher. Awkward Speed tier, while Iron Hands can be a bulky Fighting-type (Assault Vest) infinitely better. Guard Dog for Intimidate doesn’t help so much when Landorus-T Stomping Tantrums you, Kingambit is much better as an actual “punish” due to Sucker Punch and its stabs not being resisted. Bulk Up lacks priority or Special Defence boosting while not having especially great special bulk, other setup Pokemon outclass that set too. There’s a few different things Okidogi kind of does, but I don’t think it does anything well enough over the alternatives to actually be good.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Okidogi. Love okidogi but unlike iron hands, being weak to flying is a pretty hefty downside right now with torn being as popular as it is. Outside that it’s pretty fun and nice, guard dog can be really useful for keeping lando off the field to allow other physical pokemon to thrive.

SMB: i’m fine with either 5 or 4, okidogi is a weird pokemon, punishes intimidate but both of its stabs are not effective vs lando, i don’t think it can afford to run ice punch (talking about bulk up sets) so that leaves it in a weird spot or in a spot where it needs to tera which is bad as well. I think it has potential but 99% of the times i’d just rather use something that i know is going to work (see kommo-o or iron hands)

JRL: T4. Bulk up + guard dog is a very good combination, it has good bulk and can fit both on more offensive teams with its AV and set up sets. Its type allows it to absorb t spikes and with enough support it can be annoying

Madaraaaa: T4. I can see potential in bulk up set leftovers. In general is worst than hands but is not a bad pokemon, bulky and with cool coverage.

Bage1: Tier 4: Welcome to the “Not Iron Hands” club, where I will personally never use you over Iron Hands. Punishing intim is cool but it has a very awkward speed tier that makes it pretty unthreatening as a bulky wincon while AV sets seem super extra outclassed by Hands. It has decent offensive matchups in the meta right now into most of the grasses but I’m not impressed enough with Okidogi to put it any higher than this.

Changes:
Banned -> T3
New -> T4
New -> T5
New -> T5
New -> T2
New -> T2
New -> T4
T2 -> T3
T2 -> T4
T3 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T5 -> T3
T2 -> T3
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T5
T3 -> T4
New -> T3
T2 -> T1
New -> T4
New -> T4
New -> T4
T4 -> T5
New -> T3
New -> T5
New -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T5 -> UR
T5 -> T4
T5 -> UR
T5 -> T4
T5 -> UR

 

[eragon]

UR (lol) --> 3
This mon has literally never been on the vr slate since like the first vote and I think just got overlooked on the most recent one as well, but Bax is very clearly quite viable, got two major buffs with the arrival of Ninetales and the addition of Scale Shot enabling loaded dice swords dance sets in addition to the dragon dance ones that already kind of existed. Atales + Bax has seen a lot of SCL usage and with Atales in T3 I think Bax belongs there with it as it's pretty integral to the archetype, although the actual tier doesn't really matter too much to me as long as it's just included, I think this is just a pretty funny oversight (fwiw I think bax was prolly like t5 during home meta, it saw some use and wasn't too bad, but now it's much better)
Some replays with bax:
Fey vs jrl, scl week 1- bax doesn't see much usage in this game because it didn't need to, but this is just a good illustration of the kind of team it fits on
qsns vs xrn, scl week 2- a good depiction of the pressure loaded dice baxcalibur can exert even without setting up
xq vs fey, scl week 3- sd loaded dice set
xrn vs tenzai, scl week 3- dragon dance set

 

[Fangame10]

UR -> T5

Abomasnow still has use in my opinion even with the new addition of Ninetales who is generally better on most other teams.
It has better offensive coverage thanks to moves like Earth Power (can hit heatran and glimmora) and Leaf Storm is very nice to have against pokemon such as Diancie, Palafin and Basculegeon-F.

Also if you are running a Trick Room team, I've found using Abomasnow is better if you are using, say Ursaluna, since you can spam Blizzards against switch ins (while TR is up) that ursa cannot handle such as Landorus-T (weakens it, ground immune, and leaves next turn) and Sinistea.

 

[AbbabaReal]

View attachment 489373

Art by Fangame10​

Welcome to the Doubles OU Viability Ranking project, where we rank the viability of Pokemon in DOU. The floor will always be open to discussion, and after a period of time (roughly every month), the viability rankings council will vote on any of the Pokemon being discussed and post the results and reasoning here. A Pokemon moving from UR to Ranked must receive both a majority and at least 3 votes of "yes" in order to be Ranked. The rankings and tier descriptions have been assigned to describe each Pokemon's state within the metagame, and the Pokemon in each tier are listed in alphabetical order.

When making a nomination for a shift in the VR, many things can improve the quality of your post and thus the likelihood of it convincing the VR council. Calcs, reasons why the current metagame is different for the Pokemon, replays, and discussion on how the Pokemon interacts with other relevant Pokemon are all potentially solid inclusions. Additionally, you may want to discuss usage stats as part of your argument, but don't base your entire argument on the usage of a Pokemon - usage and viability are not the same thing. For examples of solid nominations from the last generation, check out this post (and the one two below it) and this post.

>>VR Council<<

Actuarily
bage1
JRL
MADARAAAA
Nido-Rus
SMB
Yoda2798

>>Tier 1<<


Flutter Mane
Iron Hands
Landorus-Therian

>>Tier 2<<

Chien-Pao
Chi-Yu
Heatran
Kingambit
Ogerpon-Hearthflame
Ogerpon-Wellspring
Rillaboom
Tornadus

>>Tier 3<<

Amoonguss
Basculegion-f
Diancie
Dragonite
Garganacl
Gholdengo
Indeedee-F
Ninetales-Alola
Roaring Moon
Ursaluna
Volcanion

>>Tier 4<<


Armarouge
Clefairy
Cresselia
Dragapult
Glimmora
Iron Bundle
Moltres-Galar
Okidogi
Palafin
Sinistcha
Spectrier
Torkoal
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Zapdos

>>Tier 5<<

Arcanine-Hisui
Enamorus-Therian
Farigiraf
Glastrier
Goodra-Hisui
Great Tusk
Grimmsnarl
Kleavor
Landorus
Lilligant-Hisui
Manaphy
Mew
Milotic
Ogerpon
Pelipper
Regidrago
Samurott-Hisui
Scizor
Scream Tail
Snorlax
Ting-Lu
Tsareena
Volcarona
Walking Wake

I think wake should be moved up to 4 or 3, it can definitely be used more than the others in the same tier. (i dont know how to put the sprites in text)

 

[Darkmalice]

I think wake should be moved up to 4 or 3, it can definitely be used more than the others in the same tier. (i dont know how to put the sprites in text)

Can you explain further? You'll need more information to justify why Wake should be moved up than simply "it can be used more that others in the same tier." Quoting the DOU leader:

Now that we’ve done an update post the DLC, we’re going to bring back the usual rules for nominations, such as noms need to be more than one liners, nominating something from UR needs to include a replay of it being used, etc.

When making a nomination for a shift in the VR, many things can improve the quality of your post and thus the likelihood of it convincing the VR council. Calcs, reasons why the current metagame is different for the Pokemon, replays, and discussion on how the Pokemon interacts with other relevant Pokemon are all potentially solid inclusions. Additionally, you may want to discuss usage stats as part of your argument, but don't base your entire argument on the usage of a Pokemon - usage and viability are not the same thing. For examples of solid nominations from the last generation, check out this post (and the one two below it) and this post.

 

[AbbabaReal]

Can you explain further? You'll need more information to justify why Wake should be moved up than simply "it can be used more that others in the same tier." Quoting the DOU leader:

Ive seen walking wake be a monster on a good rain team, it has really good special attack and isn't bad typing-wise. It also has a possibility of being used elsewhere, though it isn’t as great as rain usage. I think it is niche but definitely better than tier 5 for its sp. atk. There is a point to be made about flutter mane too, but a good partner like gholdengo or empoleon with a type advantage will fix that.

 

[ButWhyThough_2]

Ive seen walking wake be a monster on a good rain team, it has really good special attack and isn't bad typing-wise. It also has a possibility of being used elsewhere, though it isn’t as great as rain usage. I think it is niche but definitely better than tier 5 for its sp. atk. There is a point to be made about flutter mane too, but a good partner like gholdengo or empoleon with a type advantage will fix that.

that's still not enough proof, if you want a good attacker in rain, the best one is still palafin. it's lower speed and weakness to fairy makes it a prime target for flutter mane to blast down. it has poor general bulk on top of that, getting koed by priority moves like sucker punch and grassy glide(life orb variants). it gets outsped and koed by ogerpon-h/w, and for general usage, both chi yu and flutter mane do everything that wake does, but better.

wake is not good enough to justify a higher ranking than 5, and i see it going down to UR when dlc2 comes.

 

[Fritz420]

UR to 4

Kommo-o has a lot of things going for it. It has a really good defensive typing, letting it matchup well vs ogerpon forms and strong grass types like Rillaboom. Aside from that it also can act as a strong wincon with a multitude of viable sets. Iron Defense sets are really good against the multitude of physical threats in the tier, at the cost of getting walled by ghost types, and Clangorous Soul sets can get away with running physical or special sets. Kommo-o has seen success in recent tournaments, with world cup being where I first saw it perform. With all this I think it deserves a solid placement on the rankings.

Arctic edit: Kommo-o was voted to Tier 3 in the last VR update, but was left out of the OP. This has been fixed.

 

[AbbabaReal]

that's still not enough proof, if you want a good attacker in rain, the best one is still palafin. it's lower speed and weakness to fairy makes it a prime target for flutter mane to blast down. it has poor general bulk on top of that, getting koed by priority moves like sucker punch and grassy glide(life orb variants). it gets outsped and koed by ogerpon-h/w, and for general usage, both chi yu and flutter mane do everything that wake does, but better.

wake is not good enough to justify a higher ranking than 5, and i see it going down to UR when dlc2 comes.

Fair points, you're right.

 

[PigWarrior19]

UR -> T4/5: While Iron Hands completely outclasses Conk in almost every way, Conk has some useful traits that keep it afloat. Conk's slower then both cocaine bears, Kingambit, and Iron Hands. This allows Conk to find a spot as a reliable guts flame orb breaker or BU sweeper on full room teams with a plethora of coverage options, prio, wide guard, and respectable bulk. JV iron hands is a solid pick for some teams.

Team https://pokepast.es/35b5fe8c01994bcf this is the team I used mainly I know it gets goobed hard by clear smog among and both forms of weezing but it's still definitely a solid squad

 

[Actuarily]

With the upcoming metagame shifts from the Indigo Disk DLC, we’ve held a final VR vote. Since there were only a few nominations, and since this metagame is about to be finished, instead of having written reasonings we just simply voted on every mon again to finalize the VR before the DLC.

Changes:
UR -> T4
T2 -> T3
T2 -> T3
T2 -> T3
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T2
T3 -> T2
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T2
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T3
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> UR
T5 -> T4
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> T4
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR

 

[Hugo]

Its wild to see that previous dubers mons are now t4s

 

[qsns]

-> 1

it's incineroar and probably will see >50% usage. It's the best Intimidator to get around Clear Amulet thanks to Knock Off, compresses Fake Out Intimi and pivoting into a slot, it does the usual metagame warping stuff.

-> 3

Much less reason to use it with Incineroar in the format - feels comparable to SS Lando-T. It has significant upgrades in the STABs of choice (both Tantrum and Sandsear are significant upgrades) but you need to have a strong reason to use it over Incineroar, such as a dire Iron Hands matchup or compressing Stealth Rock + Intimidate.

-> 3

Benefits a ton from the metagame slowing down thanks to Incineroar and threatening an OHKO on Incin itself. It threatens knockouts with its obscene power (sometimes on a spread move, as well) to efficiently use Tailwind turns from either Tornadus or Whimsicott. Many of the problems it struggled with in previous metagames (Scarf Basc, Cresselia) have faded in popularity and Tera Poison conveniently deals with the glaring Flutter Mane and Rillaboom issues.

-> 2

I don't think Kingambit in 3 was accurate in the previous metagame (consistently high SCL usage, dominated a significant number of games there, high usage elsewhere) but it got a lot better because of Incineroar. Both SD and AV can often Just Win with minimal support and the opponent is effectively locked out of using the most powerful pivot in the tier.

 

[Actuarily]

In the interest of rapidly updating the VR after the DLC2 release, the VR Council has voted on every Pokemon on the VR & all new fully evolved forms (And Porygon2) added in the Indigo Disk DLC. Since there were so many pokemon to vote on, we just did a simple ranked vote. All following votes will be based on nominations on this thread, and the VR voters will provide reasoning.

Votes

Changes Below:
T1 -> T2
T1 -> T3
T2 -> T3
T3 -> T2
T2 -> T3
T3 -> T2
T4 -> T5
T2 -> T4
T4 -> T3
T2 -> T3
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T3
T3 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> T4
T5 -> UR
New ->T5
New ->T3
New ->T3
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T1
New ->T5
New ->T4
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T4
New ->T3
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T5
New ->T3

 

[ryo yamada2001]

Landorus-I to 2
reiterating qsns' initial nomination, now we know a little bit more about what's good, and Landorus-I deserves an uptier based on its favorable matchup spread against this metagame's top tier Pokemon. so many Pokemon on this tier, who carry lots of defensive responsibilities on their respective team compositions, are weak to Ground-type coverage of which Landorus has the strongest, being capable of threatening the bulky pivots in Incineroar and Iron Hands while also checking Kingambit, Volcanion, Heatran, and Archaludon (as well as Gouging Fire, Raging Bolt, and flavor-of-the-week tier 5s). Sludge Bomb extends its range to catching Rillaboom, Tera Fairy Flutter Mane, and forces Ogerpon variants to invest more speed than they did prior. it has decent bulk and a generally favorable defensive typing which lets it switch into itself -- while Tera Poison exploits the lack of Ground-type coverage otherwise -- and its own offensive pressure often creates positions where it can Substitute to keep itself safe. on the offensive side its own middling speed tier isn't a major concern when it fits so easily on usual Tornadus compositions either.

few players have brought it to doubles yet -- tho look for qsns, smb, eragon, bagel -- but Landorus is part of many online VGC Reg F event winning teams, and it should arguably be even better here as it doesn't have to play into or account for TornUrshi compositions there. right now this pokemon is 100 emoji no cap and very difficult to stop or pin down

edit: unrelated but shoutouts to the VR team for quickly organizing a full revote and updating it just within a week of the metagame

 

[Fangame10]

Kyruem 5 -> 4

Now that Kyurem-Black has been banned, I think we can look a bit more in depth to its normal form.

Kyurem normal is an excellent Pokemon on Snow teams with similar stats to Baxcalibur, boasting more bulk in general. Kyurem however possesses a high special attack stat of 130 making it very useful as a Blizzard spammer with a potent special attack movepool with moves such as Freeze-Dry, Earth Power, Flash Cannon and Glaciate. It is in such a position that, unlike baxcalibur who usually prefers to use set up moves like Sword Dance or Dragon Dance in conjunction with Clear Amulet or Loaded Dice, Kyurem can afford to make use of its high bulk with items like the Assualt Vest while still outputting high damage with Blizzard without the need for set up. This makes Kyurem and excellent partner for pokemon such as Sinistcha or Amoongus who can provide healing (Life Dew, Pollen Puff or redirection(Rage Powder).

Overall I feel like Kyurem should definitely be able to compete with Baxcalibur as a Snow attacker and would fit in Tier 4

some example replays of Kyurem being bulky:
vs dad1 on ladder (look at how much damage Kyurem is taking from some of these super effective special attacks)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2020873683

vs eragon in a room tour (eragon threw the game by accident but it still shows how bulky kyurem is during the game)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2014014999

(Honestly, I haven't saved enough replays showing Kyurem be cool but just assume that I've done a lot and lot of games with it >:( )

 

[RelicanthPrimal]

New mons

Archa t3: the clear best new mon, it has a ton going for it: gr8 typing, meteor solarbeam, stamina bpress, but a very low spd stat forces it to run av or psy seed. Im not sure if its too dependent on rain to work, feels like u want main setter and torn which is quite a lot of commit.

Raging t5: good stats with a nice sig prio attack, but nothing rly crazy and loses to flutter. Feels strong on sun for free boost but again competing with flutter and beside chiyu its double ground weakness. In any other format it looks easily a solid 2 or 3 but sv power lvls r just nuts.

Crown t5: decent bulk and speed tier with booster but dont think its worth running ind for, and loses to flutter.

Returning mons (mostly annoying shits)

Incin t2: good as usual, im not so sure in t1 as amu slows it down tho it can knock. If ppl find a set that lets it abuse tera maybe, but doesnt look like it. landot competes quite well with it, i dont rate landoi as highly so less cost to this

P2 t3: godamnit its back, now u need to ev for atk boost and consider knock. Incin the obvious one, moon also but much harder to use. Id like to see more trick specs/scarf gholds as well, the only good user of that set

Whims t3: another prank tw option, extremely powerful encore, and also faster than torn so can taunt it. Grounded lets it use psy terrain tho u cant encore, and useful typing. Bws makes torn still much easier to use but whims another gr8 tw option.

Deo a t2: i still feel potential for this mon to be broken but with flutter around its trickier. Just trades super well with sash.

Araq t5: finally have a usable web setter, nothing great but its not complete deadweight. Fun 4th moves with wideguard or mirror coat

Smeargle t3: moody stat fishing baton pass feels quite legit, just have a bulky flutter and fast hands ready to take any boost. Another fo mon also helps it get another turn to roll moody. Plz ban.

loaded dice (Smeargle) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Moody
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Spore
- Baton Pass
- Spiky Shield

Rejuvenated mons

Terrak t3: terracott is back and better than ever, with tera, cloak and upper hand helping it counterplay lots of threats. Its hard to say how good it is but looks quite scary. i could easily see it go to t2 if ppl discover how to fully use it.

Lando i t3: the big one. lots of hype around this, but i think most of the new mons that r weak to it arent actually good, just new toys. Not sure on archa, only incin looks fully solid, and others very questionable (raging, crown)