Resource SV Doubles OU Viability Rankings

[Darkmalice]

and to Tier 2. Putting these both together, since Deo-A only operates at Tier 2 level with Indeedee-F, and I feel that their combined weight are worthy of Tier 2. Possibly Deo-A to Tier 1. Also the fact that we're actually suspecting Deo-A for being too strong and that's entirely due to it when paired with Indeedee-F makes me wonder why they're only Tier 3 in the first place.

Deo-A under Psychic Terrain is capable of OHKOing much of the metagame with Psycho Boost. With either Tera or Helping Hand, most of the metagame can be OHKOed with Expanding Force, and with both, everything in the metagame that doesn't resist Psychic and doesn't hold Assault Vest (with those holding Assault Vest falling to Psycho Boost):
252 SpA Tera Psychic Deoxys-Attack Helping Hand Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Raging Bolt in Psychic Terrain: 536-632 (118 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tera Psychic Deoxys-Attack Helping Hand Expanding Force (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Diancie in Psychic Terrain: 312-368 (102.6 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Compounding matters is Deo-A's very high Speed, Focus Sash to take two hits, Indeedee-F being able to Follow Me hits away, and the sheer pressure that Deo-A exerts makes it hard to actually set up hazards against the team in the first place since most of its users fold to Deo-A.

The main reason I think they're Tier 2 and that Deo-A isn't ban worthy is the metagame naturally has checks to Deo-A alongside Indeedee-F that would still be here even if Deo-A gets banned. Incineroar is the biggest check, being able to survive two non-Helping Hand Superpowers without Sitrus thanks to Intimidate Rillaboom can remove Psychic Terrain and tank a non-Helping Hand Psycho Boost. Assault Vest Archaludon may not even be 3HKOed by Tera Psychic Terrain and can tank a Superpower. Tornadus sets up priority Tailwind to shift the momentum against Deo-A and sometimes packs Tera Dark (for priority Taunt immunity). Kingambit forces Superpower which at least limits Deo-A's options. That's 4 out of the 6 Tier 2 Pokemon. In Tier 3, Scarf Chi-Yu outspeeds and Snarls to bypass Follow Me, Chien-Pao can tank one hit with its own Focus Sash and Ice Spinner away Psychic Terrain, Gholdengo can tank a hit unless it's Helping Hand Tera Psycho Boost and also bypass Follow Me, Porygon-2 requires Helping Hand Tera Psycho Boost. Whimiscott has priority Tailwind. Of note lower done, bulky Psychic types (Mew, Cress, Farigaraf) can take any hit set up TR against it or, in the case of Mew, whatever it wants, Tyranitar mandates Superpower and breaks Sash, and Metagross can comfortably switch into anything.

Note that although a lot of these can be overwhelmed with Helping Hand boosts, and Deo-A can Superpower, both have their downsides with them focusing on one Pokemon, which can lead to trades in typical Deo-A fashion. Superpower only having the power to reliably check these Pokemon the first time without an Attack Drop means a wrong Superpower prediction leads Deo-A unable to handle its check, or means it can't handle more than one check. Many teams naturally have at least two checks. I lost count of how many teams I saw on ladder with at least 2 Dark-types, and they can also Tera out of Superpower, with Superpower sometimes being predictable if both opponents resist Psychic. Having to nuke something with Psycho Boost can also remove the offensive pressure that Deo-A exerts. Indeedee, although it can help with Follow Me and Helping Hand, generally doesn't offer enough offense pressure by itself with its attacking moves to deal with most of the checks other than Chien-Pao.

Due to the large number of viable checks available, I don't think it's excessive team building pressure to account for Deo-A Pokemon, in particular with Flutter Mane banned, where the team building for accounting for the two together was excessive. At the same time, since Deo-A requires multiple checks, users can also try to wear down the checks over the battle (or force them to Tera out of their Psychic-type resistance) so that Deo-A can sweep later, especially if hazards are unlikely to be used based on Team Preview.

Edit: with the Deo-A ban, I don’t think Indeedee should move up to 2 unless other Psyspam sweepers such as Deoxys-N and Iron Crown adequately fulfil most of the role that Deo-A held as a Psyspam sweeper.

 

[SuckyLucky]

4 —> 3

Surprisingly useful mon on multiple archetypes. Really helps HO with Imprison + Trick Room shenanigans, and isn’t dead weight on those styles of teams either - hits surprisingly hard. Priority block is also huge and does it better than Indeedee, and it can still work as a Trick Room setter/attacker with throat spray.

 

[SuckyLucky]

Immediate Post-Deo noms

3 —> 1

Flutter Mane and Deoxys-Attack are gone, which were two of the biggest things holding this mon back. Now it threatens everything in the tier that isn’t Chien Pao or Waterpon 1 on 1, and with best buddy Chi Yu by its side nothing is safe from it.

3 —> 2

With Deo-A gone it can go back to doing its normal Amoonguss thing without fear of being OHKO’D by terrian boosted Eforces, unless pf course Deo-A gets replaced by

4 —> 3

The presumptive successor to Deo-A on Psyspam teams, at least for the non TR ones. Good typing and Taychon Cutter being good plus booster energy shenanigans mean this mon is weaker than Deo-A by quite a bit, but still can likely keep Psyspam relevant on its own.

UR —> 5

Same reason as Crown being bumped. Deo-A is gone and so regular Deoxys taking its place (With 30 less base Attack and Special Attack) on certain teams doesn’t seem that unreasonable. Definitely think it’s worse than Crown in most situations though.

5 —> 3/4

Psyspam taking a hit helps this guy a lot in spamming Jet Punch, and not being OHKO’d be Deo-A helps too. Bulk Up set just got a lot better.

5 —> 4

Also appreciates not being clocked by Psychic Terrain Eforce. Good mon before Deo-A got the axe and made better with its removal.

I already nommed to 2 post-Flutter Mane ban but now I believe in that nom even more since another one of it’s big counters is gone. Lando-I and Incineroar bans when???

 

[eragon]

Today we Look at the Pokemon Below the VR

shoutouts Schister Rayenith KeanuVGC
and also Arcticblast for inspiring one of the tiers
(ignore the VR council slander in the first few seconds so I don't get cancelled pls)
https://tiermaker.com/create/sv-dou-shitmons-897405

Tier List

Accompanying this we have a few VR noms from the higher tiers from the video:
--> tier 5 (43:28 in video)
This mon is genuinely quite solid as a fast fairy type and a bit of a flutter replacement, you can run it the same way with the tera fairy specs moonblast and it will do damage. Obviously suffers from not as a great a typing and less speed (although still enough to do a lot) but wins games.

set

the goat (Enamorus) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 88 HP / 80 Def / 120 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Springtide Storm
- Sludge Bomb

Can also be the superpower av set:

Set

Enamorus @ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Atk / 96 Def / 132 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Play Rough
- Zen Headbutt
- Iron Head

Which is less solid but also will win games. Don't have replays for this because haven't been playing in tours recently but this mon is genuinely on a solid 10-15% of my teams at the moment. Pay attention to this mon even if it doesn't rise, this is real imo.

4-->5 (1:02:44 in video)
This mon is not that guy. Struggles into the Lando-I metagame, volcanion fits on more teams, just genuinely struggles with the competition from other fires and no longer trades as well overall.

--> 5 (1:13:57 in video)
Solid mon, works well as a breaker. This has seen a little use in tours I believe, I think this was snubbed last time

Also brief mentions for:
--> 5 (1:57:11)
-->5 (2:26:40)

Hope you enjoy!

 

[bagel]

A couple noms that I care most about currently

Incineroar -> Tier 1
No Flutter is really good for Incin, its back to doing normal Incineroar stuff and providing value everywhere. Its extremely good into a lot of the Chien-Pao teams that have gotten more common, and its a good soft check of common threats such as Gholdengo and Chi-Yu as well.

Gholdengo -> Tier 2
Gholdengo balance has been one of the most popular and consistent styles lately. Ghold is a super resiliant mon and with less Flutter/Sun HO stuff around to steamroll before it can get setup, there is a lot more time and space for Gholdengo to play the slow game. There are only a couple mons that outright threaten Gholdengo 1v1 which lets teams easily build around those matchups + makes Ghold a great tera abuser.

Lando-I -> Tier 2
Like SuckyLucky said this mon beats a vast majority of the metagame 1v1 *in a vaccum. This is not a Tier 1 mon but I think tier 2 is right now that Flutter and Deo-A are gone. This is probably the best Mon at punishing Incineroar, and in general it feasts on slower comps. I think its pretty flexible and can work on anything from a slow bulky team to Torn HO, but its low bulk and mediocre speed definitely necessitates certain partners or support.

Ursaluna -> Tier 4
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon -> Tier 3
Swapping the bears. I think regular Ursaluna simply isn't worth all of the support that it requires-- it's slowed down by intimidate, wants Trick Room (bad), and can't reasonably use spread attacks to make the most of the limited Trick Room. Ground + Normal is a good stab combo but Facade + Headlong can get outplayed. On the otherhand Bloodmoon Ursaluna is epic and unwallable because of its dumb ability. Bloodmoon is one of my favorite Hyperoffense threats because of how it can make use of both Tailwind and Trick Room. Life Orb Hyper Voices are extremely free to click along with the threat of Earth Power, and it still has good physical bulk that gives it enough longevity.

Farigiraf -> Tier 3
Armor Tail on a Trick Room setter is such a good combination, it allows for so much control over the pace of the game. I don't think its role has really changed from before, mostly being used on Tailwind offense to provide alternative speed control for the mirror and counterplay for Trick Room matchups. I do think the style appreciates priority-blocking more now, and I personally think I was undervaluing Farig previously.

 

[Schister]

Landorus 3 -> 1
The single biggest threat in builder and the best general check in the entire tier. Single-handedly manages to hold back Archaludon, Gouging fire, Raging bolt, Kingambit, Chi-yu, Gholdengo and Iron Hands from freely dominating the tier as powerhouse offensive threats thanks to its raw power, typing and excellent speed tier in a way no other single mon in the tier can even hope to. Archaludon in particular is such a massive threat in the builder that landorus instantly becomes appealing to almost every team I have personally attempted to build, onlyfalling to the wayside on some paoffense cores and on trick room/semiroom teams which are better suited to running one of the big bad bears as their ground breaker. It's so omnipotent that 332 speed is perhaps the most common speed benchmark in the tier for any pokemon over base 101, notably ogerpon and many tornadus sets. Tera poison sludge bomb enables it to have near-perfect coverage in 2 slots with earth power in this tier, barring fringe levitate users and flying types, allowing Landorus to freely run protect and its choice between the criminally strong spread move Sandsear Storm, substitute, or even more fringe picks such as psychic, taunt, u-turn, or stealth rocks. There's even been a small rise in scarfed lando-i usage recently as it becomes increasingly valuable to subvert pokemon that attempt to creep its speed and check it: chief among them ogerpon-wellspring.

Landorus' presence in builder is second perhaps only to Archaludon and Wellspring in my eyes, the latter of which is undobutedly helped by its phenomenal matchup into landorus in that regard, and the former being such a stupidly powerful threat in the tier that it warrants suspecting in my eyes. There's really no reason not to run a landorus on your team unless you have a crippling weakness to ogerpon-wellspring or perhaps snow, an archetype that has risen to prominence with good success recently by preying upon the innumerable teams using landorus and many of the dragons around., and even then a little tera and good positioning will still allow you to get great value out of your landorus given the sheer amount of targets it has in the tier and it's raw power even into neutral hits. It's presence is so great that it is perhaps the greatest factor in the falls of former staples of the tier: Iron hands, Volcanion, and especially Heatran to having much more fringe use cases than these former tier 1/2 pokemon previously enjoyed, no small feat to say the least.

Landorus is the premier special attacker in the tier right now and in my opinion the single most impactful mon in the metagame right now, gluing innumerable teams together while being a massive threat in its own right that is almost always worth including on your squad of six.

 

[Actuarily]

We're looking to update the VR after DPL ends, so consider this a last call for nominations! We'll probably start the voting slate around Tuesday or so to give everyone time to write up their nominations after DPL finals (who am I kidding we all know there's gonna be a tie, and in that case we may start the slate next Tuesday).

 

[bagel]

More noms!

Chien-Pao -> Tier 2
Naturally faster than just about everything, really great both on offense and as a check to offense. I think Pao is really flexible and I commonly find myself just putting it in flex spots on teams just because of how much pressure it can put on. It's not restricted to prio-spam physical offense teams but of course it helps those out a lot. Of course Pao really hates Incineroar but without Incin a lot of teams can struggle to deal with Pao, and even then Incin isn't infallible.

Ogerpon Hearthflame -> Tier 3
Tera Fire Ivy Cudgle has the funniest calcs in the game. Pretty much unrivaled in the amount of damage it can do in a single turn without any setup required. I think Firepon has been kinda underused even if it means you can't use Waterpon. It's really flexible between being a setup threat with Swords Dance or offering utility with Follow Me. IMO the only mandatory attack is Ivy Cudgle and it can choose between big Grass STAB like Wood Hammer, Grassy Glide, and coverage like Stomping Tantrum.

Gouging Fire -> Tier 3
I think Howl compositions are really consistent and at least a tier 3 comp that wouldn't exist without this mon. Great typing and bulk gives it a ton of longevity and Howl + Breaking Swipe lets it support partners extremely well. Heat Crash (or Flare Blitz ig) does crazy damage on its own especially after a Howl boost which lets the mon be pretty self sufficient. I think Clear Amulet Dragon Dance sets are also viable but more niche and I think not as good but they can Just Win some games.

I've just upnommed 3 mons that don't like Incineroar after nomming Incineroar to tier 1 which I guess is more of a testament to Incineroar more than anything else, but I think these all have the ability to pretty much just damage through Incineroar a lot of the time especially in tandem with a lot of their common partners/support such as Stealth Rock or pressure from Lando-I.

Iron Hands -> Tier 2
Not much to say here seconding this nom as 2 of the things it was most scared of are now gone it probably goes back to its rightful place in tier 2 as one of the best damage traders in the tier. I personally prefer this on more offensive structures as Hands is less efective slowplaying because Incin still kinda stomps all over AV Hands' mojo but not enough to keep it in tier 3. I have seen a resurgence of Belly Drum Hands on ladder which which is pretty scary news, so take this as your warning to be ready for Belly Drum + Trick Room turn 1...

Raging Bolt -> Tier 2
Honestly a bigger reason for me being less sure about the Hands nom. Bolt has extremely goofy stats that let it actually compete with Hands as an Electric type. Assult Vest sets can be extremely annoying for offense to deal with with its bulk, damage, and utility. Seriously this thing has like 15 good moves I bet 2 people can each bring AV Raging Bolt to a game and only share 1 move. Calm Mind has been picking up and can run away with games on its own as well. Definitely needs to be built around and can be awkwards at times due to relying on Thunderclap but it can absolutely solo a lot of teams if it gets some free boosts.

These remaining noms are just some lower tier housekeeping

Latios -> Tier 4

Levitating Dragon + Tera is quite strong, and this is one of the only special attackers that outspeeds and threatens Landorus-I now that Flutter is gone. It still has 130 base Special Attack and Luster Purge is an extremely spammable move. Can both click Tailwind and fit on teams with other speed control options. Obviously not amazing as it hates Kingambit and is threatened by Chien-Pao but definitely has a place.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-747738
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-753731

here are two DPL replays where Latios has a pretty strong showing. The first game Latios puts on a lot of pressure on lead and removing the Lando-I which was a huge threat, and later cleans up at the end of the game. In the second game it trades itself for damage into Tyranitar but I think it was worth it as Tyranitar was one of the main ways that team dealt with Chi-Yu.

Walking Wake -> Tier 4

No Flutter is great for Walking Wake, and lets it kind of slide into the Flutter Mane slot on sun offense compositions. Chi-Yu really appreciates it as a partner that can easily threaten Incineroar and Lando-I. I've seen all of Speed Boost, SpA Boost, Assult Vest, Specs, and Life Orb have success.

Iron Jugulis -> Tier 5

Niche but I think it has a place as an alternative supporting speed control Pokemon. Bulky Snarl + Taunt sets can help control the pace of the game really well. Its Dark typing lets it avoid Prankster Taunt that would otherwise stop it from setting up Tailwind.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-752011?p2

Here it doesn't stay on the board for much of the game but it's disruption gives some free turns for Gouging Fire to set up and eventually run away with the game.

-> Garganacl -> UR
I haven't seen this guy in forever, there are tons more cringe IDBP pokemon that people prefer like Registeel and Kommo-o.

Manaphy -> UR
Haven't seen this in forever either and it seems really bad and outclassed + outpaced by just about everything.

 

[SuckyLucky]

I suppose I shall do more nomming

4 —> 3

Similar to Pelipper in the sense that it’s a weather setter, but it can actually just win games on its own instead of setting up/supporting teammates if Trick Room ever goes up. Needs more support to really dish out damage but can also be super annoying with yawn and forcing switches.

3 —> 2 & 4 —> 3

Since the last VR slate (pre-Flutter ban) a lot has changed for Pao stuff to get better, mainly Flutter leaving the tier but also the decrease in psyspam usage meaning priority isn’t going to be blocked as often. Incin being incin means Pao likely won’t ever get back to the level it was pre-home, but I think the archetype is a lot better than it was a few weeks ago. Also DNite might be a bit better now thanks to inner focus and Tera Normal ESpeed shenanigans dropping most of the tier when Sword of Ruin is there to help.

 

[Grandmas Cookin]

-> 4
i dont think t5 is accurate at representing this mon, it was accurately put that nothing besides gholdengo can really deny it any utility, and encore disable with incredible speed is almost always going to be useful when its on the field, while also providing acceptable chip damage with dazzling gleam.

-> 3
this pokemon has exceeded my expectations in the post flutter format, its made several setup pokemon such as archaludon, moltres-g, and cm raging bolt into incredibly threatening and largely unkillable monsters through hospitalily, rage powder, and life dew. also capable of cleaning up teams that no longer have the means to take it down quickly just by spamming matcha gotcha. easily better than t4 right now

-> 5
good trick room mon, surprisingly bulky and has great damage with the new sharpness ability working with several of its stab moves, better than most things currently in t5 imo

-> 3
snow has proven itself to be extremely viable, and i believe both of these pokemon are also capable of functioning outside of blizzard spam by themselves which should put them in a higher position than t4

-> 3
enables archaludon a tiny bit better than tornadus simply by setting rain instantly, also has wide guard which i think is invaluable in the current format

also going to vocalize my agreement with several posts with a quick hl of noms that already were mentioned
-> 1
-> 2
-> 2
-> 3
-> 5

 

[zee]

UR(???) -> 3/4

Galar Molt is one of the strongest setup options in the tier and has been used repeatedly throughout OSDT on multiple teams featuring Incineroar and Sinistcha as enablers. Incredible bulk, Nasty Plot + Berserk, and a great spread move give it the durability and offensive capability to solo some games with as little support as parting shot and redirection. Flying typing + high spdef makes it actually one of the best Pokemon to have in front of Landorus-I. While there are a few Pokemon that Moltres will struggle to break past, namely Tyranitar and AV Iron Hands, it is hard to find a state where Moltres is completely walled out.

 

[Schister]

T5 -> T3

Consistently one of the best breakers in the tier, often out-competing incineroar for its brilliant offensive merits as an intimidator on many teams. Finds a great home on gholdengo tailwind offense and pao structures and consistently performing in OSDT with a healthy ~10% userate in every round. Rock-fire coverage is phenomenal into big scary snow teams and opposing offensive structures alike, notably being one of a few direct torn switchins that can also subsequently threaten that slot. This mon will definitely punish you if you don't respect it in builder and tier 5 doesn't reflect its current status at all.

T3 -> T4
T5 -> T3
Echoing bagel's nom for gouging to tier 3, an incredible win condition/support mon that can opt into howl or dragon dance sets, or even choiced on sun teams if you prefer to just spam heat crash. Heat crash is a ridiculous move that finally has a viable user and as such gouging fire has one of the most spammable no-drawback moves in the entire tier on top of being stupidly bulky (seriously who gave this thing 105/121 phys?). Burning bulwark causes this pokemon to have mind games on the same level as glimmora, as you never know when you might catch a stray burn if you target this slot, giving gouging a truly oppressive advantage in gameplay that really has to be felt to be understood. With all of these traits gouging fire has largely supplanted entei on many pao teams, though entei still has many merits of its own in sacred fire extreme speed and inner focus. (P.S. Game Freak removing howl from entei but gouging fire keeping it was sooooo disrespectful)

T3 -> T4
Outspeeding torn doesn't matter much if you get bleakwinded in the face trying to taunt it. Overlaps types with soooo many grass types as well causing it to throw the type balance of many teams that may attempt to use it off. Definitely not a bad mon and always pulls out some stops in its games on a good team but it's a bit harder to find those teams than I'd say it should be for a tier 3 mon

T4 -> T5
Good stats and ability, but isn't offering anything too desirable over any other steels in the tier. Banded explosion is fun though.

T4 -> T5
Still good on psyspam to deal with annoyances like rilla and incin, but way less splashable with one of its main targets in flutter long gone and the rise of bolt.

T4 ->T5
I think the only teams I've seen this mon on are very rare snow balance teams that appreciate flash fire and can scare away landorus. Flash fire still allows this guy to obtain incredible tera value, but its kit just doesn't justify doing so over an actual wincon or even other team stabilizers like ogerpon.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- UR NOMS -------------------------------------------------------------------------

-> T5
Good specs user as a rare water type that outspeeds lando-i with a uniquely good defensive typing. 91/90/90 bulk Allows it to live some strong supereffective hits such as most Bleakwind storm and grassy glide and flip turn allows it to build momentum but the real merit of this mon is Specs muddy water coming off of a 129 special stat that outspeeds a heavy portion of the tier. Keldeo's typing is also critical to the reason I believe it has a niche, as it fully typewalls the stabs of Chien pao and Harcanine, forcing these mons to lock into undesirable non-stab moves or forcing arcanine to tera normal espeed to deal with it which barely even has a chance to KO as shown in the calc below:

252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Normal Sword of Ruin Arcanine-Hisui Extreme Speed vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 288-339 (85.7 - 100.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

This specific merit allows keldeo to anchor some teams against two of the most potent and difficult to manage breakers in the tier, while threatening some of the best mons in lando and incineroar making it a unique but valuable pokemonfor managing specific challenges often presented to teams in the current metagame

Specs Keldeo

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Muddy Water
- Flip Turn

https://pokepast.es/126e21209eda85d0
I intended to team dump this team later anyways but I feel comfortable sharing it now in the name of nomming Keldeo to tier 5. it has been a real joy to pilot in OSDT and in practice, I never feel like I'm on the back foot with it and am confident enough in its strength to share it even if that means I might get counter-prepped harder if I decide to run it again.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-756653
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9doublesou-754605

-> T5
Deoxys not being on the list is more of a product of dating than anything else. That said it is definitely not deoxys attack and demands a lot of support to be able to win games, though it is still quite capable of doing so. Especially good at matchup fishing for games against teams lacking a rilla to ruin its life.

-> T5
With flutter and deoxys gone the relevant speed tiers in the format have been considerably lowered, meaning scarfed kleavor sets can finally be free to run adamantand do more damage. Also greatly benefited from hands falling from grace and rocks in general are strong right now with so many teams running pao and harcanine as breakers, and other supports such as torn and incin hating them

 

[LuBiStar20]

T2->T1
Rillaboom is single-handedly holding the tier together. If it wasn't here, DOU would be overrun by PsySpam. It is the ultimate glue Pokémon. It can run Grassy Seed with Fake Out/U-Turn/Grassy/Wood Hammer, or it can be a more bulky variant with AV, opting for coverage over U-Turn or Wood Hammer.
T2->T1
Another Glue. I think this Pokémon is the best in the tier. It can do whatever you want. Want to run a Rain Team? Bleakwind/Rain Dance/TW/Filler. Sun? Sunny Day/TW/Bleakwind or heat wave/Filler. Hell, It can probably be used on Hard Trick Room Teams because it has Prankster. It doesn't even have to run a primary setter because it's so reliable. No Tornadus I've seen runs any speed anymore.
T3->T1
102 Speed Special Ground. It can outspeed some Pokémon in TW. Counters than HALF of the Pokémon in this tier. I don't think much needs to be said about this beast. It can run 3 attacks sub, 2 attacks Sub/Tect, you don't know what's coming.
T3->T2
125/91/89 bulk for an Electric Dragon is fucking INSANE in a meta where Rillaboom, Ogerpon, Incineroar, and Tornadus are all running rampant. It doesn't have much coverage but it doesn't need coverage. It's just that strong with its 137 SpAtk.
T2->T1
Snowballs easier than any other mon in the tier. You lose to this instantly unless you bring Glimmora or Landorus. If you don't, better hope you brought tera blast ground Vikavolt.
UR->T4
Underspeeds Ting-Lu in Trick Room, OHKOs ursaluna (After 2 turns of Flame Orb Damage 252+ SpA Choice Specs Vikavolt Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Ursaluna: 418-494 (90 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO), and is a great counter to Landorus and Rillaboom outside of Trick Room. It's not T1 though. I may be a vikavolt believer but I am not that insane.

Put Vikavolt on the VR i beg

 

[Actuarily]

We have the updated viability rankings! Thanks to every who nominated and voted. Due to length, post needs to be in two parts.

Votes are below:

Low-Tier Sweep

Votes

3 -> 2

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 2. While Landorus’ high usage is a limiting factor for Iron Hands, Hands is still really good into so many archetypes in the tier like TR and hail while also being able to offer good fake out support. As others have mentioned, set up is still a pretty viable option.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 2. Removing two of the biggest threats to Hands (Mane & DeoA) has allowed it to rise and actually do something. However, it’s not as strong as it once was, since it struggles into a lot of common setup Pokémon + Intimidate, but it still does an amazing job at eating hits, clicking faking out, and can even pivot with Volt Switch (And can run coverage like Ice Punch, Heavy Slam, Fire Punch, etc.). Can also run SD or BD, but aren’t that amazing anymore.

Bage1: Tier 2. Hands isn’t the auto-include glue for balance structures like it was pre-DLC 2 as it now has to compete with Incineroar and Raging Bolt, but at the end of the day it's still an Iron Hands with its insane stats. Hands can still be really threatening with speed control (whether that be Tailwind or Trick Room) and out-trade just about anything, so I think it fits more easily on offensive structures now. Setup sets are probably more viable now with the recent bans but that doesn’t mean they are particularly solid.

Eragon11145: Tier 2. Fits pretty decently as a fake out mon on a lot of teams, but Incin and Lando I still make life a little difficult for it. I think it’s maybe on the lower side of tier 2, but with Deo-A and Flutter out of the tier it has risen up a fair amount and I think tier 2 is more suitable for it than tier 3.

Madaraaaa: T2. Fairy type and moves are less popular, hands is really strong but slow and suffers intimidate recycling. Av set can trade vs lando i or other pokemons, sd is still ok but is really difficult to make the strategy work. Seems hands right now wanna pivot and damage instead setup.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Far better with no flutter around, but instead there’s more intimidate and more lando-I. Right now it feels somewhat the lower end of tier 2 as it struggles into some of the setup mons dominating right now, especially with tera

SMB: Tier 2, still doesn’t get a ton of usage like it did on some points of the gen, but it’s one of the best mons at stat checking almost anything and generally always does something. BD sets have seen some more usage and they have proven to be a threat on the right team

Yoda2798: Tier 2. The most recent bans have been good for Iron Hands, letting it rise up to Tier 2 as it can better leverage its bulk for good trades again. However, I’d still put Hands on the lower end of Tier 2, high Landorus-I usage is limiting, and it’s often neutered by Intimidate. Also, Iron Hands competes with Rillaboom and Incineroar which are more splashable Fake Out users and, importantly, actually run pivot moves (Volt Switch is bad); the lack of which combined with Iron Hands’ low Speed often means after burning Fake Out it can be left sitting on the board rather awkwardly where one of the other two could pivot out. Still, Iron Hands is a strong pick on the right teams, perhaps most notably when forming part of Trick Room cores.

Zee: Tier 2, like others have mentioned it just has much better stats than a lot of the surrounding metagame and not a lot to threaten it, so it generally outtrades in a lot of scenarios and forms strong double Fake Out cores with Incineroar and/or Rillaboom.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 3. While rain can have some very tough matchups, it also can obliterate unprepared teams, and Pelipper is the best rain setter due to its ability to set tailwind & help beat mons like Ogerpon-Wellspring & Landorus.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 3. I usually don’t rank weather setters higher than Tier 4 but ig Peli and ATails are exceptions. This mon can actually provide more than only setting weather, as it has Tailwind, Wide Guard, and Flying-Water stabs that hit a lot of most used Pokémon like Ogerpon, Landorus, Rillaboom, etc. Also has good bulk that allows it to eat hits from the previously mentioned Pokémon, as well as some other threats like Chien-Pao & its buddies.

Bage1: Tier 3. Rain is a Tier 3 archetype right now and has a lot of variations that can include Pelipper. Pelipper generally feels better at supporting Archaludon than Tornadus, and outside of setting Rain Pelipper has a surprisingly solid matchup spread vs a lot of top Pokemon. It threatens Lando-I and Incineroar, can trade vs Chien-Pao and Ogerpon, and is an extreme nuisance for Gouging Fire and the common structures it fits on. I’ve had success with Eject Button, Damp Rock and Focus Sash as items while it has a decent support movepool as well.

Eragon11145: Tier 4. Arch helps this mon’s usage but at the end of the day Pelipper has like no stats and often feels frustrating to run to me. It’s a usable mon for sure, but I don’t think rain is good enough by itself to push this up to tier 3.

Madaraaaa: T4. Rain is a decent archetype and pelipper has sinergy with archa, but overall is a tier 4 pokemon, also because we don’t really have an excellent rain sweeper.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Feels a lot better to use than before with archaludon rain being a somewhat real rain option, flutter being gone, and having good matchups into lando and incin, but despite that there’s just far too much still dragging it down. Unlike ninetales-a this is still something you basically always want off the field if you can.

SMB: Tier 4, i don’t think pure rain which is were this would fit is higher than tier 4. Sharing type with torn is bad for the defensive synergy of the rain teams that play it, I wouldn’t say it’s that superior to politoed and rain teams definitely do not always need it

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Pelipper competes a lot with Rain Dance Tornadus, which can fulfill a similar role while being far more effective as speed control, but the immediacy of Drizzle along with access to Wide Guard and a secondary Water-typing give enough reason to use it over the genie. Archaludon and Ogerpon-Wellspring are both really strong and appreciate rain (with the option to switch Pelipper in for a boost being an especially valuable option), while Pelipper’s Flying-typing and ability to set Tailwind mean it doesn’t feel like too much of a burden on the team.

Zee: Tier 4. Autorain is nice but Pelipper is still a Pelipper at the end of the day and Rain Dance support from Tornadus or even Thundurus can still go a long ways to enabler Archaludon + Ogerpon semirain teams. Pelipper’s stronger role imo comes from harder rain squads, which I would rate tier 4.

3 -> 1/2

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 1. I was on the fence about this, but Flutter was far and away the best mon, and with it gone tier 1 is probably going to need to be expanded a bit. Landorus is one of the biggest offensive threats in the tier that is also able to check a lot of the opposing biggest threats, such as Archaludon, Raging Bolt, Iron Hands, Kingambit, Diancie, Chi-Yu etc. It’s of course not without flaws, having middling speed and a rough matchup into common archetypes like Hail, but if well positioned it’s been shown to win games, and it’s one of the highest usage mons since Flutter’s ban.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 2. The biggest offensive hitter in the tier, and it only requires 2 moves to hit basically everything (even if neutral, that tends to be enough). However, it’s not as fast as it’d like to be, it doesn’t OHKO stuff, plus it's relatively easy to revenge kill it, so I don’t think it's even close to Tier 1. Still super oppressive if you mess up your positioning / speed control though.

Bage1: Tier 2. One of the strongest if not the strongest offensive threat in the tier and one of the most consistent ways to break common defensive wincons and glue Pokemon such as Archaludon and Incineroar. However defensively it can be pretty exploitable due to its mediocre bulk and speed. Lots of pokemon can still outspeed and threaten Landorus such as Chien-Pao and Ogerpon. I also think its main attacks having immunities can mean opponents are able to pivot around Landorus’ attacks, or force the Landorus player to make risky predictions to make progress.

Eragon11145: 1. This is probably the best mon in the tier and certainly the strongest offensive mon imo. It’s really easy to fit this on almost any kind of team and it handles almost all of the various dragons that are all quite viable themselves. A great wallbreaker and if this isn’t tier one at the moment I think I’d struggle to put anything there.

Madaraaaa: T2. In teambuilding is so easy to put, is so good into high tier pokemons, with tornadus creates great sinergy, hits hard all pivots with ground+poison coverage, can tera to endure ogerpon or pao moves. Incineroar, gholdengo, kingambit, raging bolt, archaludon suffer lando’s ground power, sandsear storm cannot be redirected too. Many teams have multiple ground weaknesses and lando punish it.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Premier offensive threat in the metagame right now and it shapes defensive structures, but also very fair in terms of its speed tier and what it hits/doesn’t hit. Most things that outspeed this can easily threaten it, and most teams either have good options to outspeed this or to pivot around it. Very solid but not tier 1 universally good.

SMB: Tier 2, huge offensive threat but very frail defensively, with ogerpon water and hail being so common it is also very hungry for a defensive tera. Generally needs support to perform well unless it’s facing a very slow team, that’s not tier 1 material

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Landorus is one of the best attackers and an important Pokemon to consider when teambuilding, with great coverage, access to spread, and a decent Speed tier. Its ability to threaten Archaludon in particular is especially useful in this meta where many Pokemon struggle to touch it, and while it can Tera away the Ground weakness that threat is still valuable. However, Archaludon and other Ground-weak Pokemon moving to Tera types which match well into Landorus (Bug/Flying) does limit its effectiveness, along with its vulnerability to other offensive Pokemon like Chien-Pao or Ogerpon. At the end of the day I suppose the question is how close is this to king Ogerpon-Wellspring, and while close I don’t think I’d say Landorus is quite at the same level of universally good.

Zee: Tier 2, It is a powerful offensive threat for sure but it lacks the speed and bulk to be truly dominant like a tier 1 threat should be. Can often get stuck on calling if the foe will or won’t tera. Has to choose between substitute to maintain a semblance of bulk or sandsear storm to have a spread attack in this redirection-heavy metagame. And of course, too rough of a matchup into T1 Waterpon.

3 -> /2

reasoning

Actuarily: T4. Agree with most of the others, Psyspam is very niche right now, and while you can run this a little on non-dedicated psyspam teams, it’s quite passive.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 4. Biggest abuser of the terrain just got banned and the others aren’t that amazing. It still has very good utility moves and Trick Room, plus Terrain helps vs Priority, but this thing is just too frail and more often than not just wants to set terrain and leave ASAP. Something like that shouldn’t be higher than T4.

Bage1: Tier 4. With Deo-A gone psyspam lost the best reason to use the archetype, and Indeedee is now mostly just utility TR/redirection option or hardroom mon and it has a lot of competition even in those roles. Psychic Terrain is always something that needs to be considered in the builder, it’s just much easier to cover for now.

Eragon11145: 4. Deo-A’s ban has severely damaged psyspam so I’m actually just going to vote this down. I’m not convinced enough of the strength of psyspam post-ban to vote to leave this in tier three and there are better redirectors.

Madaraaaa: T4. Low psy spam usage right now, still ok as tr setter and redirector but not having an oppressive psy abuser is a big flaw.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Lost its best partner and other options haven’t really picked up in its place. Still very usable but other expanding force mons are generally worse off in current meta with high incin, raging bolt, arch etc usage.

SMB: Tier 4, psyspam is still usable but loses a lot without deoxys, indeedee is not a great mon per se so its rank usually reflects psyspam place in the meta

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Indeedee-F was/is the part of PsySpam getting dragged along, it’s relatively weak as both a redirector and Trick Room setter so really needs a strong partner enabled by Psychic Terrain to be worthwhile, which with no Deoxys-Attack is very rarely the case. Unless you need the very specific combination of utility Indeedee-F provides then the more splashable Pokemon are just better, so it shouldn’t be higher than Tier 4.

Zee: Tier 4, in general I would rather consider Farigiraf for priority blocking since it doesn’t have to contend with Rillaboom’s offensive presence, and psyspam without Deoxys-A is just in really rough shape.

2 -> 1

reasoning

Actuarily: T2. Agree with Akaru, it was T1 in psyspam + Flutter meta, but now it’s not as necessary of a defensive piece, and thus has much more competition from the likes of Ogerpons/Amoonguss/Sinistcha. Still has great utility and can pack a punch, but there are a lot of grass resists right now.

Akaru Kokuyo: 2. I think in the Flutter Mane + DeoA meta, this was Tier 1. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s still super strong and offers way too much (Can deal big damage with Hammer, has Fake Out, U-Turn, can Knock Off stuff, can even help setup with funny moves like Snarl or Drum Beating, etc.), but it doesn’t like facing a lot of the current popular teams. Still, one of the closest mons to Tier 1.

Bage1: Tier 2. Great and splashable but there are some matchups where it can be walled offensively and feel a bit useless. Has 4 moveslot syndrome a lot of the time where it wants to carry ground coverage for all the Fire+Steels, Wood Hammer for big damage, U-turn for pivoting, and it can’t really drop Glide or Fake Out, so its always going to feel a bit limited in certain matchups depending on the moveset. Grassy Terrain + its pivoting still enables a lot but the actual mon can feel awkward too in-game for a tier 1 mon imo.

Eragon11145: 2. I’m a big hater of this mon in SV when psyspam isn’t the dominant offensive structure. I don’t think it really trades that well with the much-weakened glide and it has to compete with both several other grass types and several other fake out mons for usage. Still definitely a tier two mon but I don’t think it’s on the level of some of the other strong mons in DOU.

Madaraaaa: T2. Good grass pokemons like fire/waterpon, sinistcha are usable, but that doesn’t affect so heavily rillaboom’s usage and power. Av+fout+strong hammer+ grassy terrain offer help in so many semiroom, bulky setup teams.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Lost a significant chunk of its value since it isn’t as important to remove psychic terrain anymore and also lost a big target to snipe off with grassy glides in flutter mane. Still a good solid pivot, just not overbearing in any way. Lower half of tier 2 for sure.

SMB: Tier 1, provides a lot of control to the team with terrain, fake out and uturn, wood hammer hits really hard and has priority, I think you can’t go wrong by using rillaboom since it’s really splashable, usually gets favorable trades vs almost anything and enables lots of stuff, even for other grass types so it’s generally not worrisome stacking types with it

Yoda2798: Tier 2. For a long time Rillaboom has hovered around the cusp of reaching into Tier 1 along with the other small handful of next-best-things after the very top, though right now I’d say it’s at a slightly lower point than it has been for a while. Rillaboom is still a really good pivot, can set Grassy Terrain, and can hit hard with Wood Hammer or fast with Grassy Glide, but it still isn’t the same Pokemon as last generation. With Deoxys-Attack gone there isn’t a reason to significantly want terrain unless you have something bulky benefitting from the healing or Grassy Seed, while other Fake Out Pokemon like Incineroar and Iron Hands exist, and Ogerpon-Wellspring is the definitive Grass-type, meaning Rillaboom is very much in the boat of several good options rather than being a clear cut above the rest. Grassy Glide isn’t as strong as you’d like, and mono Grass-typing leaves it struggling against a lot of the most common Pokemon like Tornadus, Landorus, and Archaludon.

Zee: Tier 2. I think there are a tad too many Pokemon in that format that Rillaboom just struggles to gain advantage against like Incineroar, Archaludon, Entei, Orthworm, and Tornadus, not to mention many more situationally or via tera types. Still an excellent Pokemon with a great kit but there are definitely enough rocky spots for it to stay outside of tier 1, imo.

1 -> 2

reasoning

Actuarily: T1. Still manages to walk the line between offense & utility better than any other Pokemon. The typing can sometimes be a drag because as a water type it’s not a fire resist, and there are many more dragons around with Flutter gone, but Wellspring still just compresses roles like no other Pokemon.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 1. It was way stronger with mane and deo around, but still does an amazing job at basically everything. Redirects stuff, does a good chunk of damage, threatens other big threats like Landorus, it can even be your win condition with Swords Dance or act as a Coaching/Howl recipient. I really think this is barely the only Tier 1 the tier has.

Bage1: Tier 1. The best all-around mon in the tier, can soft-check two-thirds of the metagame pretty naturally. Has a great balance of support and offense so it can never really be ignored and provides value in just about any board state. The positive Landorus and Incineroar matchups in particular make this a really easy to include on any archetype.

Eragon11145: 1. I’d say this mon isn’t quite as tier one as it was when we last voted but the powerlevel has gone down and wellspring still serves as the best redirection in the format while helping teams handle Lando I and Incineroar, two of the strongest mons in the tier at present. I think it’s roughly at the same level of widespread applicability and strength as Lando I, and given that I voted that in tier 1 I believe Wellspring belongs there as well.

Madaraaaa: T1. Great support, fits everywhere, good typing and stats also allow to hit hard many high tier pokemons.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Considerably weaker now with the value of tera spdef boost decreasing after flutter and deo-a bans. Good strong pokemon in general but very much dislikes the rise in popularity of dragons across the board, especially the popularity of archaludon/raging bolt/kyurem. Still good value in chunky hits and solid redirection, but there’s so many options that safely sit in on this now and beat it or force it out.

SMB: Tier 1, again this is a mon that is always going to be useful, good both offensively and defensively, provides support, anti set up tools, great ability. Maybe be a bit worse than a couple of weeks ago because unexpectedly dragon types are way more viable but still tier 1

Yoda2798: Tier 1. Ogerpon-Wellspring hasn’t really changed from before, it’s still the best and most splashable Pokemon in the tier with its great typing and (adjustable) balance of Speed, bulk, and power. The few Pokemon faster than Ogerpon are frail glass cannons while it can maintain a level of defensive prowess, and can choose to leverage it for redirection letting it play a dual offensive-supportive role to a level that is very unmatched. There are really no teams where Ogerpon-Wellspring is not a good addition, and no matchups where it does nothing, while often playing a significant role in teams and games.

Zee: Tier 1, there’s just almost no reason not to run this Pokemon at this point in the metagame. It speed checks a majority of the tier, its tera form allows it to be a great blanket check to almost any special attacker in the tier, Follow Me enables all sorts of set up and positioning options in addition to absorbing Spore if not terastalized. Also has a great arsenal of lesser used moves such as Encore and U-turn to look into even if the traditional set isn’t a good fit for certain teams.

3 -> 4

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 4. Encore isn’t that valuable, and you’d rather just run Tornadus for better offenses. Only real reason to use this is if you really feel like you need a different typing than Torn to set tailwind, or if you’re running some sort of beat-up shenanigans.

Akaru Kokuyo: 4. Cheaper Tornadus. This thing enables a faster Taunt than Tornadus and can run Encore, but it can’t do damage (which is something you really want to do in this tier). Also enables Beat Up which isn’t great but if you are not prepared you can insta-lose to that!

Bage1: Tier 4. The combo of being worse than Tornadus and losing hard to Tornadus is really rough. It's insane prankster movepool does give it a niche over Tornadus mostly on hyper offense structures but in general Whims is just way less consistent and hard to justify over Torn.

Eragon11145: 4. Torn better. Still quite usable on some hyper offensive structures, but it’s generally outclassed by Torn’s ability to fit on almost any team structure and Torn is able to sit on the field more effectively by spamming Bleakwind.

Madaraaaa: T4. Tornadus is the premier prankster support and has a strong good stab. Whimsi is so passive right now, suffer a lot of faster pokemons, many dark types ignore prankster moves, better grass type exist.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Hyper offense structures are usable but worse than before, which makes this a lot harder to justify over torn given its considerably worse bulk and lack of personal damage.

SMB: Tier 4 or even 5, the only time I would use this over tornadus is on beat up teams or another gimmick strategy

Yoda2798: Tier 4. The use case for Whimsicott over Tornadus is not a lot, the genie has a better (and less common) typing while being much better offensively, also bulky Covert Cloak is the best set which works better on Tornadus as well. Encore is cute but not enough, especially with Ogerpon-Wellspring often available to redirect it if completely necessary, and Beat Up is gimmicky.

Zee: Tier 4, generally too frail and wants to click too many buttons for its allotted bulk. Tornadus matches up a lot better into the tier offensively and defensively for the most part.

5 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 4. While Kommo-o can definitely run away with games, as far as the dragons in the tier goes, it’s behind quite a few. The fighting type gives it weaknesses to things like Tornadus, and it doesn’t have the same bulk as many of the others. Also each of its sets have popular threats Kommo-o just can’t touch, making it a little matchup fishy.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 3. After being dead for a while in the Deo meta, it has now risen again as a solid win condition. This can wall half of the metagame after a single Iron Defense, and eats hits relatively well from threats like Landorus or Tornadus (although can’t do much back to them). The biggest downside of Kommo-O is it’s hungry for both heavy support and Tera, so in many cases you need to build a team around it, and if the matchup isn’t great, you are at a huge disadvantage. Still can win games alone though so I’m giving this a 3.

Bage1: Tier 4. Flutter + Deo gone does make this more viable but the Lando-I matchup is still extremely dire and it has to Tera way too much for my liking. I think Clang sets are interesting but it will always have coverage problems, and I will never rate an IDBP mon that highly when there are strong ghosts like Gholdengo and Sinistcha running around everywhere.

Eragon11145: 4. Definitely helped significantly by the removal of Flutter and Deo-A, but I still think this mon can be a bit difficult to actually pilot given how common bleakwind is in the tier, and Lando I also pressures it for a fair amount of damage. Better (and it was already viable before), but still not enough to warrant tier 3 in my eyes.

Madaraaaa: T4. Has to be checked in teambuilding, iron defense set can be a wall but overall needs support and there the presence of ghost types/tera + multiple special moves are not good news for kommo-o.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Flutter Deo-A gone is big, but lando-I stays common and this also has to contend with other popular dragon types now existing in raging bolt/archaludon/kyurem. Still more usable than before, but not to the point of being a considerable threat.

SMB: Tier 4, struggles a lot vs gholdengo, lando, special dragon types and encore stuff, i wouldn’t say not having fm was good for it because a lot more special stuff that check it are viable and tera can’t remove all these weaknesses

Yoda2798: Tier 4. The latest bans do help Kommo-o out, but it’s still a very hungry Tera hog and I also feel awkward even after Tera, particularly with being pressured by Landorus. There’s also the massive problem of Kommo-o being outclassed, if you want Iron Defense/Body Press then Archaludon is in a different dimension, and while there isn’t as clear a like-for-like replacement for Clangorous Soul sets, I think Dragon Dance Baxcalibur is basically just better, and there’s other better setup Pokemon like Kingambit with smaller drawbacks than Kommo-o.

Zee: Tier 4, there will be times where either set up Kommo-o set can hit the field and win on the spot but those aren’t particularly common: Iron Defense sets will struggle to break Landorus-I, Gholdengo, and various Ghost teras, while the the Clangorous Soul set can be very risky to setup with the HP cost when the metagame has lots of powerful spread attackers such as Kyurem, Tornadus, Chi-Yu, and Volcanion that can threaten it when terastallized or not.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T2. Hail is T2 good, and there’s so many different ways to build it, but they all have Ninetales-A. I was on the fence about whether this should be tier 3 or tier 2, with the main drawback of Ninetales-A being it doesn’t do much damage. But between setting veil, disrupting set-up mons, and fishing for freezes, Ninetales-A does enough not be total deadweight.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 3. The other weather setter I’m giving t3. Veils alone is a good reason for this to be in Tier 3, but it also enables Snow teams (With Kyurem, and the famous Frosty Fanroom!), disrupts Setup and Fake Out Pokémon with Encore, Blizzard is always a spammable move to fish for freezes, and has a good speed. Decent mon to bring even if your team isn’t Snow dedicated.

Bage1: Tier 3. If I’m giving Pelipper tier 3 then this is also tier 3. I think Snow is roughly on the same level as Rain as an archetype, and in my experience runs into a decent amount of trouble when veil is denied by stuff like Sunny Day/Rain Dance Tornadus. Atales itself is extremely weak offensively but it has decent coverage and good support with moves like Encore, Icy Wind or Roar to go along with Aurora Veil. Can sometimes feel like a sitting duck but other times its typing and bulk with Snow + Veil makes it annoying to break through.

Eragon11145: 3. Snow is the best weather with multiple abusers (Bax, Kyurem, and even Bundle) and Ninetales itself is the best screens user in the entire format. Totally enables Snow to be so effective and I think it definitely belongs in tier 3 given how much we’ve seen it recently. Fanroom is also the best sample by a mile imo and that helps this mon a lot.

Madaraaaa: T3. Has a lot of support moves, faces well draga pao stuff, is relatively fast and snow buff really made it a good pokemon.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Snow is top weather rn especially with kyurem as an amazing abuser. Flutter and deo bans mean that there’s very few popular mons that can stop ninetales-a from setting up screens, and kyurem presents a very significant threat now with ice being an incredibly strong offensive type into the current metagame. Freeze dry is also great on ninetales right now to threaten ogerpon and pelipper.

SMB: Tier 3, snow is the best weather, enables a lot of good set up mons like gholdengo or makes really bulky stuff almost unkillable. Even if veil is easy to counter, ninetales is almost always going to find a time to set it and worst case scenario if your opponent has brick break, you trade 1 turn for 1 turn, not like other screen setters that trade 2 turns for 1

Yoda2798: Tier 3. There are a good number of Pokemon which benefit from Aurora Veil (and Hail), especially for setup, which makes Ninetales-Alola a pretty justified choice in this meta. Ninetales does struggle when denied the option to get up Veil since it doesn’t do much outside that, but it gets them up often enough and Veil is usually strong enough to be worth it with the right partners.

Zee: 3. Snow is an incredibly powerful and versatile weather and has been putting up incredible tournament results and obviously that isn’t possible without Ninetales-A. Aurora Veil is of course one of the strongest moves in doubles but there are plenty of other moves to sing praises about, fast Blizzard and Icy Wind are obviously appealing, Encore, Disable, and Roar make for excellent disruption options, Moonblast is good to fit Fairy coverage in the post Flutter metagame, and even stuff like Fake Tears can be good.

2 -> 1

reasoning

Actuarily: T2, obviously provides a ton of support, but many of the offensive threats have good matchups into Incin (except notably Gholdengo) and so its defensive typing isn’t nearly as good.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 2. Now that Mane is gone it’s back to doing Incineroar stuff. Eats hits, Intimidates, Fake Out, Knocks Off items, can run WoW, Flare, Overheat, Parting Shot, Snarl, U-Turn, this thing is very flexible in the support role. Only reason this is not Tier 1 is Ogerpon-Wellspring and Landorus existing. (While also being punished by popular mons such as Kingambit, Glimmora, etc.)

Bage1: Tier 1. Incineroar feels like the ultimate safety blanket for the tier for me where I know it can provide value every game on top of neutering specific matchups. Of course Lando-I and Wellspring pressure it, but Incin can still absolutely be a nuisance for both pokemon. Its ability to pressure and slow down Chien Pao / physical offense structures + keep physical setup mons honest by forcing them to run Clear Amulet is extremely valuable. There are also a ton of random mons that get really screwed by Incineroar existing (which is more valuable on ladder but I want to mention it). Incineroar is still the best Pokemon in the tier at creating space for partners imo.

Eragon11145: 2. Probably towards the top of tier 2 but it’s threatened a lot by Lando I and Wellspring which are super common, while Kingambit is probably the best defiant mon we’ve had in an Incin format. Still does Incin things but its matchup spread isn’t quite good enough to justify it in tier 1.

Madaraaaa: T2. Still super good support but lando i and ogerwater are really popular. Exist also other good fire types depending on the pace of the team.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Very good option especially now, but also abusable in team structures at the moment as it results in not picking a more offensive fire. Threatened pretty significantly by other common pokemon like lando-I and waterpon, and just clear amulet along with tera ghost existing as pretty common options that a wide variety of pokemon can run ends up significantly reducing incineroar’s presence on the field

SMB: Tier 2, it has too many matchups where it feels weird to play it, and just comes in to try to intimidate and die right after, or parting shot gets blocked or you face an id body press mon and this is your fire type of choice. Great pokemon but not useful on certain games, not good enough for tier 1.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Incineroar is in a similar place to Rillaboom, it is a solid choice but one of several similarly good options, not a standout pick like would be needed for Tier 1. Incineroar does boast the perk of being the clear best Fire-type, but when Ogerpon-Wellspring and Landorus are two of the biggest threats Fire-types aren’t the staples they usually are right now. In many games it feels like Incineroar comes out and gives Fake Out and Intimidate, but after that is usually on the back foot due to the likes of the previous Pokemon or a boosted Archaludon Body Press.

Zee: 2. Agree with the others that Incineroar is great but not to the level of tier 1, be it because of the pressure it faces from Landorus-I and Ogerpon-W, the free invitation for a lot of the tier’s setup options, and the availability of Clear Amulet and Covert Cloak limiting its disruption potential, there are just a bit too many things stacked up against it to be Tier 1 level.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T4. Priority blocking is good, but priority-based teams aren’t quite as popular as before when hitting before Flutter & Deo-A was crucial. While it does set TR, it often has to choose between being bulky enough to reliably set it, or offensive enough to do something. Still has value, especially on offensive teams looking to counter TR, but isn’t valuable enough to move up a tier.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 4. Basically a “different” Cresselia. It doesn’t heal its partner, but it prevents priority while also having a good amount of bulk. The biggest drawback of this Pokémon is its item; if it runs Sitrus Berry, it’s almost guaranteed to setup Trick Room and still live, but it can turn into a passive Pokémon, and if it runs Throat Spray it gets rid of the passive problem but now can easily get KOd. It doesn’t want to face a lot of the setup Pokémon like Gholdengo or Kingambit thanks to the lack of moves to hit them, so it relies on having a good partner to not lose the game the moment Farif switches in. Has a plethora of utility moves though which helps a lot.

Bage1: Tier 3. Speed control + priority blocking in one slot is extremely powerful board control and Farigiraf has just enough stats to capitalize on the combination. It has a solid enough bulk to get up a TR in front of most combinations of opponents and enough offensive firepower to capitalize on TR on its own, especially with Throat Spray. It can also lean more into a supportive role and go bulkier with Helping Hand or Imprison to better support stronger offensive partners. Farigiraf is the best pokemon at punishing teams that rely too heavily on Fake Out / Rillaboom to survive Trick Room.

Eragon11145: 3. There’s a fair amount of fake out in this tier and this mon has solidified itself as a semiroom staple, able to effectively support torn and the faster mons while pairing excellently with Ursaluna Bloodmoon and other slower mons on that archetype. Offensively, it capitalizes on its TR more than any other setter bar Diancie with throat spray hyper voice. I’m a bit on the fence about this one but the archetype and mon have impressed me the last few months so I’m willing to vote it up here.

Madaraaaa: T4. Good for specific teams thanks to the ability and trickroom, but generally is walled and suffer by many dark, steel pokemons that are so popular.

Nido-Rus: 4. Good but only works on very specific more offensive team comps, and even on those it feels a bit rough to use as it can often end up as a sitting duck accomplishing nothing on the field.

SMB: tier 4 or 5, set up fodder and I wouldn’t say priority is as dominant, ho teams that run this are ok without it, and semitr teams basically have to pick between this or cress, I wouldn’t say one is better than the other, they just provide different things so they should be about the same tier

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Priority blocking is cool, especially for stopping Fake Out spam to stall Trick Room, but beyond that Farigiraf falls short, struggling to be both bulky enough to actually set TR and offensive enough to take advantage of it. Farigiraf is too niche for Tier 3, it’s only worthwhile for specific compositions which have other options as well, and often ends up doing nothing notable besides blocking priority.

Zee: T4. It’s a dead slot against a lot of the metagame, including setups like Gholdengo, Orthworm, and various Steel Teras. Its bulk also feels a bit fake at times, unless you go all in on defensive investment but then your offensive pressure is pitiful. Priority blocking + TR is a good enough kit but I think it’s fine where it is.

3 -> 2

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 3. There’s a ton of competition for grass types, and there’s even more that fulfill similar roles to Amoonguss between Ogerpon-Wellspring & Sinistcha. The main advantage Amoonguss has is sleep pressure, but there’s just enough in the tier that can become immune to sleep via tera/abilities/grasses redirecting/goggles/substitute/taunt that as long as the opponent has a counter they can take advantage of Amoonguss being neutralized.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 3. Could be the closest Tier 3 to 2 though. There are still enough natural Spore-immune Pokémon out there for this to be threatening, and a lot of teams have several ways of dealing with it (ChienPao + Fire mon, Tornadus + Landorus, Taunt, etc. ). Sure if you didn’t consider Amoonguss while building, prepare to have a not so fun game. Still, this thing will always be amazing if you give it enough room to maneuver even if defensively.

Bage1: Tier 2. If this was ever really tier 3 it was the best by far, but now the meta has slowed down just enough to where Amoonguss balance teams have the tools to deal with HO that might previously have run them down. Amoonguss is extremely valuable in balance wars with Pollen Puff while still also buying key turns with its bulk vs more offensive teams that need to try and power through Amoonguss quickly.

Eragon11145: 2. A solid defensive mon that can be a key defensive backbone for a fair amount of teams. I think overall I prefer Wellspring as a redirector but Amoonguss has a sizable niche and can even threaten wellspring and other grasses with sludge bomb. I also think pollen [iff is helpful at the moment for a lot of teams.

Madaraaaa: T3. Ignored by rilla, ogerpons, gholdengo… suffers hail and tornadus. Is not the best moment for amoongus but still usable and valid in semiroom/setup teams, especially if the setup sweeper is gholdengo, raging bolt, baxcalibur… all pokemons that can face pretty well other grass pokemons.


Nido-Rus: 2. Slower meta with fewer spore immunities is great for amoonguss. Also very much appreciates lower usage rates for heatran/volcanion/chi-yu and higher incin, even in cases where incin runs goggles. No Deo-A also helps a lot.

SMB: Tier 3, it really hates the presence of tornadus, ogerpon redirecting spore or gholdengo being the best bulky set up. Many teams run more than 1 grass type and sometimes tera is enough to check it. Ofc a game defining mon but it’s not at a tier 2 level atm

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Amoonguss is a Pokemon that seems to keep getting overhyped due to how it appears on paper, but never lives up to it in practice. Of all the OSDT rounds so far, Amoonguss’ highest placing in usage is 17th, when it’s usually placing the 20s, that’s quite clearly not the splashability needed for Tier 2. Ogerpon-Wellspring gives teams easy access to redirection without Amoonguss’ slow, reactive, passive nature; Ogerpon can also redirect Amoonguss and other Ogerpon, unlike Amoonguss, which is especially sad when redirecting Water-types is what Amoonguss should be good at. With all the ways teams have to handle Amoonguss, especially the low cost of including a Tera Grass on your team, you need to have messed up somewhere to struggle against it. With all that said, Amoonguss isn’t terrible, and it can fit nicely as a supporting piece to bulkier/setup Pokemon, but it is just not as pickable as better options like Rillaboom for the vast majority of teams, and not the strong, splashable pick a Tier 2 should be.

Zee: 3. The current metagame is honestly just pretty unkind to Amoonguss between the dominance of snow teams, overwhelming Tornadus usage, Gholdengo, Ogerpon, and most of the targets it would love to Spore packing Tera Grass.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 4, as many others have said psyspam is tough, and Iron Crown really has to choose between actually hitting hard or being fast, and it wants to be both.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 4. One of the remaining Expanding Force abusers, but what it offers is just way too little compared to DeoA. First of all, it doesn’t have a reliable way to deal with Dark types (It has Focus Blast, but gl landing those lmao),it has mediocre speed that often requires you to equip an Energy Booster Spe+, this forcing the Pokémon to stay in the field if it wants to keep the boost, and also lacks the nuke power in terrain. Sure it can fish matchups and win this way but there are way better fishers out there.

Bage1: Tier 4. Psyspam as a whole just isn’t as good right now and Iron Crown needs to hit Focus Blast or commit Tera in order to hit many of the common mons right now. I do think its probably the best mon to click expanding force with right now, but thats its only niche and its not an amazing niche currently.

Eragon11145: 4. I think this is probably the best psyspam abuser post-Deo but like I said before I haven’t seen enough out of the nerfed psyspam archetype to really push the mons on that core up. We might see more development in the near future but for now I think tier 4 is pretty suitable for it.

Madaraaaa: T4. Psyspam is T4, crown is not deoxis, but can do the job if not checked in building.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Not a bad option, but significantly weaker than other expanding force clickers. It makes up for that somewhat with solid defensive typing and the ability to run booster speed, but that also comes at the cost of an item slot. Hard to justify with incin popularity.

SMB: Tier 4, indeedee tier as it only fits in psyspam teams

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Iron Crown is hardly seeing any usage even without Deoxys-Attack (it’s arguably even worse due to PsySpam being worse, where it could be a supplementary piece before). Iron Crown and Indeedee-F are individually not that great, and the whole is not much greater than the sum of the parts here. Iron Crown is reliant on Booster Energy so it can’t really switch, has to pick a stat to be unboosted (and underwhelming) either way, and unlike Deoxys can be OHKOed. Iron Crown is very much not worth the price of admission (Indeedee-F) when better Pokemon exist that don’t need dedicated support.

Zee: Tier 4, Psyspam is just not dominant enough without Deoxys-A to rank this higher. Crown lacks the explosive potential of Deoxys to break past would be checks, and the reliance on Booster Energy makes it a very committal Pokemon which I don’t think lines up with how Psyspam should be played, ideally.

 

[Actuarily]

Part two below:

Votes

3 -> 2

reasoning

Actuarily: T2. One of the biggest set up threats in the tier. Has such a good ability that neuters many ways to stop set up, and has great bulk and typing. The only thing holding it back is there are key checks like Kingambit/Landos/Fire mons, often forcing this to tera or rely on speed control. But it’s not too hard to play around these checks, especially with redirection.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 2. Its typing + ability allows it to punish every single passive mon existing in the tier, and with the help of Tera, it can also punish some offensive threats and setup / attack in their face. One of the best setup Pokémon we have, and its relatively easy to support. It’s biggest drawback (and the only reason why this isn’t used in every single team) is the excessive amount of viable Dark-Type pokémon that also resist Make it Rain (Incineroar, Kingambit, ChiYu). Also fits well in HO archetypes with a Choiced Item equipped.

Bage1: Tier 2. Great typing and solid bulk lets it stay around and trade, HO teams with Chi-Yu are much less common now which gives it a lot more room to breathe. It has poor matchups against 3 of the top mons in Incineroar Wellspring and Lando-I but oftentimes it can be positioned to avoid or power through them. Of course the matchups are still bad which is why its not tier 1.

Eragon11145: 2. I think this mon is really good post flutter, it finds a lot of opportunities to set up and it can be really difficult to stop once it gets going thanks to its typing and ability. Has a few not great matchups (Lando) but still a tier 2 mon for me.
Madaraaaa: T2. Scarf or plot sets are both viable, this mon is just too good in stats and ability even if inci, gambit and lando are threats for it. Needs speed control and support, but in a good position can erase 2-3-4 opponents pokemon before fainting.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. A whole lot better with flutter gone, NP especially has seen a big resurgence. Choiced sets are still underused.

SMB: Tier 2, probably the best bulky wincon at the moment, its ability and bulk paired with the right support can make it a very solid threat, especially vs slower teams. Good matchup vs snow which might be the most popular archetype atm and also fits in some hyper offense teams as a choiced attacker.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. The absence of Flutter Mane is massive for Gholdengo, removing one of its biggest checks and letting it grow from being the niche Ghost-type option. Everything that made Gholdengo good before still applies, its amazing ability, strong spread move, nice typing, and ability to Tera into another great but also synergetic typing (Dragon). Yes Incineroar/Kingambit/Chi-Yu resist its stabs and are annoying, while Landorus hits it hard even after Tera unless you go for a less common choice, but Gholdengo is great into so much of everything else, while your own Landorus or Ogerpon-Wellspring can deal with those problem Pokemon for you. Nasty Plot does appreciate some support, and does hog Tera a bit, but Gholdengo is well worth the cost of admission.

Zee: 2. Gholdengo invalidates so much of the tier, as you can see in my reasoning for numerous Pokemon above. Between its offensive toolkit, Good as Gold preventing many of the common ways set up sweepers are disrupting, and its ability to easily synergize with any of the top utility Pokemon, it’s easily one of, if not the best set up option in the tier.

3 -> 4

reasoning

Actuarily: Tier 3. Was on the fence about this, but still when positioned correctly Ursaluna absolutely shreds through teams. Thankfully it has great bulk to make positioning pretty reliable, the only thing holding it back is how it needs reliable TR setters.
Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 3. Honestly I think this Pokémon is in a very good position right now. Sure Trick Room isn’t at its best right now (And bear should only be run in a TR team), but when it's up and bear is in the field, it basically threatens 90% of the meta. Facade nukes virtually everything even if at -1, Headlong Rush too, and can run Bulk Up, Swords Dance, and even spread EQ as 4th move. It’s a support hungry Pokémon though so It can be annoying or hard to correctly position. If correctly executed however, you can destroy half of the enemy team.

Bage1: Tier 4. I think this is pretty much a hardroom only mon but in the right position it still can rip through teams. Unfortunately it simply requires too much support for such little upside when it gets slowed down by intimidate and is susceptible to Fake Out, while being a sitting duck outside of Trick Room. It doesn’t have access to reliable spread because of Rillaboom and the Facade + Headlong combination can potentially be pivoted around so aren’t as reliable to click. In general just have to be in perfect positions to get enough value, and those are hard to come by in competitive games.

Eragon11145: 4. This one isn’t very good imo, run the other one on most teams. Struggles with being a little difficult to position and can be outmaneuvered pretty easily in this meta. Still has the highest damage output in the tier but it’s single target damage 90% of the time which makes it hard to justify all the effort that goes into positioning it. I do respect the niche it has on fanroom/snow teams in general but I think that team is just really really well put together and that goes a long way for this mon.

Madaraaaa: T3, I completely agree with akaru about this pokemon.

Nido-Rus: 4. Was debating keeping it at 3 as it seems to hold its own quite very well on frosty fanroom with the added defensive layers of aveil, intimidate, and hospitality/life dew recovery, but I feel that case is more of an exception of using a niche option well rather than a case for keeping this at 3, considering ursaluna has been doing worse across the board outside that. Does not like incin, lando-I, ogerpon, opposing hail, opposing rain, etc etc.

SMB: tier 3, it still has a pick one button and the only support it needs is tr being up. Can take hits and tera ghost is great on it to make full use of the tr turns so well positioned it can finish games on its own.

Yoda2798: Tier 4. I think regular Ursaluna is the worse of the two, Facade being a nuke is nice, but the drawbacks of a spread move neutered by Grassy Terrain (this is the big one), being susceptible to Intimidate, and needing Flame Orb to activate first to be effective hold it back. Like others have said, Ursaluna has performed on FanRoom (and the FullRoom team which has been fading away after the Deoxys ban), but that’s on a specific team with the right support. Ursaluna is a strong Trick Room attacker, but it really needs the right team to justify itself, and is too niche for Tier 3 I feel.

Zee: Tier 4. I think Ursaluna-BM is generally the better bear to employ for TR sweeping, as it has the better spread move (not nerfed by Grassy Terrain like Earthquake), doesn’t take an additional turn for Flame Orb activation, and doesn’t have to lower its defenses. Like Nido said, we’ve seen Ursaluna be a great attacker on SV fanroom, but that is an exceptional case where the mon is given a boatload of support that I think is too high maintenance to recommend above Tier 4.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T3. Very similar to the other Ursaluna in that if positioned correctly it just does so much damage, and bloodmoon is much harder to pivot around. That being said, Bloodmoon being a little faster can often be a negative against opposing TR, as it doesnt get the speed tie with Diancie/Iron Hands/Kingambit, and its ground moves arent as strong. But being a special ground attacker is big in a format with Archaludon.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 3. Basically everything I said for Ursaluna, but now specially offensive. I do however think this requires less support than the other one, and can also be good in Tailwind.

Bage1: Tier 3. One of the most consistent breakers in the tier, its attacks are extremely spammable and it has so much raw power that often it only needs to get 2-3 attacks off to break sizable holes into opponents and provide value. Tera Normal Bloodmoon erases pretty much the entire tier. It was enough speed to work with Trick Room and Tailwind which can let it be a consistent threat and flexible in how its used on teams. As eragon mentioned Farigiraf is one of its best partners, giving it a lot of space to fire off its attacks.

Eragon11145: 3. This is a really good semiroom mon (see farigiraf reasoning, the two pair really well together) and pairs really well with torn (one of the best mons in the tier, so a big plus) for something with its speed. Very, very threatening and one of the scariest mons to deal with in the tier when you don’t have a speed advantage.

Madaraaaa: T3. Perfectly explained by other eminent members.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Tiering this above farigiraf even though the two often exist on the same team. I feel running farigiraf is moreso one option to make blood moon perform well, rather than blood moon being just another semiroom abuser that farigiraf happens to be good for. Blood moon can perform incredibly well with its typing and stabs, just needs very significant support to do it. Performs a lot better now in this comparatively slower and less offensive meta, as blood moon gets more opportunities to switch in and break open defensive structures.

SMB: Tier 3, less breaking potential than regular ursaluna and a bit frail on the special side but can fit better on more teams and run an actual item

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Unlike its regular forme, Ursaluna-Bloodmoon does have access to a reliable spread move, which is a big plus for a Trick Room attacker (or Tailwind attacker, which this does have the Speed to function as). Blood Moon is an incredible attack, the drawback isn’t that bad, while Tera Normal boosting your nuke and spread options in one, along with losing most of your weaknesses, is quite nice. Earth Power to hit the few Normal-type resists rounds out Ursaluna-Bloodmoon as a nice, strong attacker.

Zee: Tier 3, Blood Moon is a Z-Move that the devs somehow snuck into SV. Yeah it’s reliant on trick room support and not whiffing into protects or the wrong teras (a bit more than most other offensive threats), but the raw damage output when played successfully is so threatening that tier 3 feels entirely fair.

3 -> 2

reasoning

Actuarily: T2. As Eragon said, there’s a ton of ice weaknesses, and Chien Pao enables so many other pokemon that it’s a staple of physical attacking offense. Pao is also a decent check to many of the top set up threats like Archaludon/Kingambit/Gholdengo. Obviously its defensive typing and bulk make it somewhat difficult to position, but many of the teams it’s featured on are happy to just do damage trades and find a free switch for it.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 3. Also one of the closest to Tier 2 from T3. Amazing speed and offensive prowess, but you’re kind of forced to run Sash if you don’t want to get OHKOd. It also enables its partner to deal massive damage thanks to Sword of Ruin. Doesn’t like many of the Fire types and bulky structures though so it can be a bit lacking sometimes.

Bage1: Tier 2. Speed + damage checks a ton of frail attackers with coverage that feels better than it has maybe the entire generation. I think Pao easily slots in basically any team that can afford a flex slot because of its basically uncontested speed tier. Honestly I would probably consider this tier 1 if it weren't for Incineroar.

Eragon11145: 2. Pao Offense feels very strong to me right now, there’s a LOT of ice weaks and this mon can more easily afford to run adamant without Flutter in the tier which further helps it deal with many opposing teams. I also think Dnite got a lot better without Flutter and Psyspam being less prevalent, which is another plus for the mon you practically have to run Dnite with.

Madaraaaa: T2. Offers sinergy to phisical sweepers, is the faster high tier mon in the meta, threat lando, has sacred sword and dark moves. Indeed is frail but focus sash give it decent stability, usable in ho prio spam but also as an outside trickroom killer.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Pao offense as an archetype does not feel notably stronger than before flutter/deo ban to me, especially with stuff like incin, hail, and archaludon’s popularity. It does however definitely appreciate psyspam’s much lower usage as well as the addition of gouging fire as a solid option on the team comp. Pao itself however does seem quite a bit better with its base speed feeling far stronger with flutter gone. Ice is also a great offensive type now with rising popularity of dragons.

SMB: Tier 3, probably the main face hyper offense, I wouldn’t say that archetype is better than snow and I rank snow at 3. The pokemon itself isn’t that great to be tier 2 since it would really like to stay on the field for longer and enable their partners to deal more damage, needs to run sash most times which means it fails to get ohkos and either needs the opposing team to be chipped or double target some slot, which leaves it exposed many times

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Chien-Pao has actually been quite consistently 6th in usage throughout OSDT, which is surprising for a glass cannon, but does make sense to me given teams no longer have Flutter Mane to rely on. Chien-Pao is now clear best as the new “fast” Pokemon on your team, only being outsped by Choice Scarf users or more niche options like Dragapult. Combined with that is what everybody else has said about its coverage, with Ice hitting a lot of the top Pokemon like Landorus and Tornadus, Dark able to force Gholdengo to Tera, and Sacred Sword dealing with Incineroar/Kingambit/Chi-Yu while boasting the ability to hit Archaludon through its defence boosts (so usually forcing it to tera as well). Chien-Pao is just a really splashable fast attacker at the moment, its coverage and Sword of Ruin let it hit most Pokemon hard while Focus Sash gives it a level of survivability, it really does not require a dedicated partner like Dragonite/Entei to be strong right now.

Zee: Tier 2. There are a lot of different directions you can take Chien-Pao offense in, be it the Inner Focus Priority spam, Howl squads, or just having it be a fast attacker to speed check the tier on a balance team. Ice is a solid offensive typing for the tier currently as well. I do think the prevalence of Incineroar is obviously troubling for it, however it can generally find the partners to mitigate its presence.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T3. Hearthflame was definitely a little slept on while everyone was taking in how good wellspring is, but in recent times we’ve seen more and more of what makes Hearthflame good. It can hit just outrageously hard after tera-ing, able to pick up neutral kos on many offensive pokemon, and as Bagel mentioned with other modifiers it can be taken to another level, all without ever clicking a set up move. Even as a redirector it has merits for teams that want to redirect grass moves and actually resist it.

Akaru Kokuyo: 3. For bulky utility, you run Waterpon. For offensive utility, you run Firepon. This thing deals massive damage with little support, and still works amazingly as a support itself with Follow Me. Can actually compete vs Waterpon now that the latter isn’t as strong as before, and does amazing at being your Fire-type Pokémon.

Bage1: Tier 3. It’s really easy to put this mon in positions to do unfair amounts of damage with modifiers like Tera, Sun, and Chien-Pao. Has lots of flexibility in its moveset, especially because Ivy Cudgle can often break through checks such as Incineroar in the right circumstances. The main downside is the opportunity cost of not being able to run Wellspring. Hearthflame can do a lot of the same stuff while being more threatening offensively, it just has more polarizing matchups.

Eragon11145: 3. Large amounts of damage output and still has many of the same great qualities that Wellpring has in terms of movepool and utility. Not quite as high as we initially expected but I think this mon is a little slept on and has a strong niche in the tier for more offensive teams that can afford to drop Wellspring.

Madaraaaa: T3. Strong enough to be in tier 3, has less space and is walled by incineroar and dragons but Id not underestimate it.

Nido-Rus: 3. Whole lot better in this slower metagame where it can threaten way more stuff with tera. Still hard to run as it competes hard for the fire type slot, but its definitely easier to manage now.

SMB: Tier 3, I really think this pokemon is a bit underused but that’s only because of how teambuilding works since ogerpon water is the best water type by a large margin and there are many good fire types to use. It’s definitely better than tier 3, it has the same defensive tools ogerpon water has and can go for an offensive mode easier.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Ogerpon-Hearthflame’s biggest drawbacks are not getting to use Ogerpon-Wellspring, and not getting to use a different Fire-type, but given how other Fire-types are at the moment that second one isn’t so big a cost currently. Relatedly, it is the one Fire-type which can naturally outspeed Landorus and isn’t bad into it, which is a big plus with how common Landorus is. Incineroar is still a bit annoying to face, but Hearthflame is better than I previously thought a serious Fire-type option in this meta.

Zee: Tier 3. Trades the overall utility that Wellspring has for an incredible amount of potential damage output, can be especially threatening with Sunny Day or other supports that give it the space to set up Swords Dances. Bullies slower teams pretty hard, and that’s not that uncommon now that Flutter and Deoxys-A bans have shifted the tier’s speed tiers down significantly.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T3. The howl sets are interesting and can really take many priority attackers to another level, while also powering up Gouging Fire. Beyond that, it also has great stats/typing and signature move in Burning Bulwark.

Akaru Kokuyo: 3. Closest to Tier 4 though. It has insane physical bulk that comes super handy with latest meta development, and can Howl to support itself + it’s partner. You can also pressure the opponent to not Fake Out this slot since you can just protect and gift them a burn, allowing you to get some good turns for you. Still, it needs at least a couple of Howls and not being Intimidated for this to do something else than supporting with that + Breaking Swipe, but it does its job pretty nicely.

Bage1: Tier 3. A mon with its stats and typing will always have some value, and the Howl + Breaking Swipe support set is really strong right now. It has so many options opponents are forced to respect between Howl, Burning Bulwark causing burn on contact, and either of its attacks. With Heat Crash it does real damage especially if it gets attack boosts. There are some dire matchups that keep this mon from being any higher in my books such as Pelipper Rain and/or Archaludon, as well as it being stuck on one archetype which can be a bit one-dimensional in their approach. Set up Dragon Dance sets are also usable, but I think there are generally better setup options.

Eragon11145: 3. This mon is incredible and I’m almost tempted to vote it for tier 2 (although I think that would be jumping the gun a bit). This is the best howl mon we’ve ever had and its excellent typing and bulk make it pair really really well with some of the Pao teams I’ve seen and messed around with. I do think its reliance on physical partners does prevent it from being more applicable to a variety of teams but it can do so much and the speed booster on this mon helps it in so many matchups. I also think setup sets have some use but I think the howl set is better and more splashable. Oh yea and it also has the best protect variant of all time which disincentivizes targeting in some situations where it can be dangerous to let it get an attack off.

Madaraaaa: T3. Good but not the best fire pokemon. Is really bulky, can help the team with howl, snarl… but looks mid overall, is erased by lando i and booster energy seems a must.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. Flutter ban has done wonders for this as proto speed puts this at a basically uncontested speed tier now. I feel this is still somewhat worse than it is in VGC as gouging fire feels significantly worse when it loses its speed boost, but while it does have it, it provides amazing utility between howl and breaking swipe along with very significant offensive pressure of its own with its fire stab. Breaking swipe also feels a lot better now with the abundant phys attackers around.

SMB: tier 4, I’d rather play 5 other fire types before this, even on teams like hyper offense this would not be my first or second choice for a fire type. Has the same issues that roaring moon has being a physical attacker that mainly runs booster energy so intimidate limitates it a lot. DD or snarl clear amulet sets are probably its best set but that leaves it with a very average speed which is not great especially on snarl sets

Yoda2798: Tier 3. I think Gouging Fire is on the lower end but still makes it into Tier 3, it has some pretty unique stuff going for it with Booster Energy Speed, Howl, and Burning Bulwark. As Nido-Rus said the absence of Flutter Mane makes the Speed a big selling point now, but it is also quite reliant on it so doesn’t like to switch out which can be awkward. Gouging Fire is also pretty weak, so you’re relying on it being able to support your other Pokemon effectively enough which doesn’t feel guaranteed. Overall a pretty weird Pokemon, but with the Howl partners like Ogerpon-Wellspring, Chien-Pao, and Kingambit available I think it’s good enough for Tier 3.

Zee: Tier 3. I’m a big fan of the howl phys-spam archetype, as the likes of Kingambit, Chien-pao, and Rillaboom make excellent recipients of the boosts thanks to their already high raw power and great bulk (speed in Pao’s case) and access to priority. Breaking Swipe and Burning Bulwark are also great for keeping opposing physical attackers in check, including Inner Focus Pokemon which is something Incineroar can’t do.

3 -> 2

reasoning

Actuarily: T2. Because of its massive stats, it has two great sets in CM and AV, and Thunderclap is the perfect move to take advantage of both. The only thing holding it back is due to it and Archaludon sharing many counters, every team is accounting for these threats. But the fact that Raging Bolt still manages to run away with games despite this is a testament to how good it is.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 2. This mon is a monster if you allow it to exist for too long. It does amazing at both AV & Setup sets, has insane bulk, and offers a priority move in Thunderclap. I can definitely see this Pokémon wreaking havoc in the near future if people keep not respecting it in the teambuilder.

Bage1: Tier 2. Assault Vest Raging Bolt is utility overload while also being amazing at trading against most of the tier. It has like 10 moves that are viable and can have a spot on teams depending on what is needed. Extremely consistent at providing damage and speed control with Snarl and Electroweb or dealing damage of its own because it has a 137 base special attack stat. Calm Mind can run away with games but does end up being kinda awkward with Thunderclap mind games and Fairy being immune to Dragon allowing opponent space to outmaneuver.

Eragon11145: 2. One of the best mons in the tier, it’s just really bulky and has two excellent sets: AV and Calm Mind. AV is a bit easier to fit on a lot of teams and can be really difficult to knock out while leveraging a great movepool to either do damage with draco meteor or provide support with moves like snarl and electroweb. On the other hand, Calm Mind is one of the most threatening setup mons in the tier with many options available to support it. I expect this mon will be a key player for the rest of the gen unless it somehow gets banned.

Madaraaaa: T2. Amazing stats, can be used av or setup with leftovers or booster energy depending on the team. With tera and support and priority move can be unstoppable.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. Meta staple at this point, amazing combination of defensive typing, offensive coverage, utility, and setup potential.

SMB: Tier 2, av sets have great utility and bulk and cm sets are a massive threat with a couple of free turns and the right tera

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Thunderclap is better than I first thought, and no Flutter Mane is really nice for Raging Bolt. Its natural bulk and excellent resists as a Dragon-type work super well with either Assault Vest or Calm Mind, with the latter being one of the best setup Pokemon in the tier. Aside from being weak to Landorus and Chien-Pao (which Tera can help with), there isn’t much to complain about from Raging Bolt, it’s a really solid, reliable Pokemon.

Zee: Tier 2. Basically feels like a special version of Iron Hands with priority, where it has both AV and set up sets that are extremely threatening and stat checks the majority of the tier, also has a great pool of tech moves and tera types imo.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T4. Sun is solid, but as others have mentioned, there’s a number of ways to get it up without Torkoal, and since Deo-A’s ban there hasn’t really been much use of this as a TR attacker.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 4. It’s the 4th best sun setter (behind Tornadus, Whimsicott & Ninetales which is already lame af lmfao). Slow, which usually means it’s only doing things if you set up Trick Room first. Although it has some good utility in WoW, Helping Hand, Rocks & Yawn, it’s just not offering enough to be considered over the rest of amazing Fire types the tier has.

Bage1: Tier 4. I think Tornadus strictly outclasses Torkoal as a Sun setter on pretty much any non-Trick Room build. Torkoal just doesn’t offer enough value when it's not being put in perfect positions to click Eruption. That said, Torkoal under Trick Room in the right conditions can still be one of the most deadly pokemon in the tier, but even then it faces competition from Pokemon like Bloodmoon Ursaluna (not that Hard-TR can’t use both).

Eragon11145: 4. While it is the best/most consistent way to set sun in the format, it’s still a pretty mediocre mon on its own unless you commit to a TR mode, which weakens the use of the faster sun abusers it wants to pair with. Sun itself is also not quite as strong as Snow as an archetype right now so I think tier 4 is far more appropriate than tier 3 for a mon that has felt like deadweight on teams for me since like January 2023 (sorry Genone).

Madaraaaa: T4. Sun is not shining rn, torkoal is still good if trickroom is up but has multiple checks and superbulky pokemons exist. Considering also hazards presence, is hard for torkoal to be dominant in this meta.

Nido-Rus: Still 4. I don’t think sun has gotten better at all tbh. If anything it’s gotten worse as other weathers are better and all do quite well into sun right now. Torkoal itself also isn’t doing great as more dragons and incineroar means more fire resist switchins that limit tork’s sweeping potential. Still a threat on the right comp but not really any better than before.

SMB: Tier 4, sun and full tr are not at their best but torkoal is still a threat, even more when the main water type doesn’t resist fire type attacks

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Torkoal is still basically just a Trick Room attacker, and FullRoom is worse after the Deoxys ban. Sun in general isn’t the best right now, especially with the other weathers going around, and if you do want it then Sunny Day Tornadus is probably better anyways.

Zee: 4. This is a pretty weather heavy metagame and Torkoal users feel like they get the short end of the stick in weather wars, as rain is often paired with Rain Dance Tornadus while Tyranitar and AV Kyurem are quite tough to break when facing sand and snow respectively. It’s a decently strong trick room attacker in ideal conditions, but those conditions are so hard to achieve that I can’t support a rise.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T3. Inner Focus Extremespeed with that high of attack is just so threatening. Has a couple of good sets between CB and AV, and we’ve even seen a rise in DD use. There are just enough pokemon that shut this down that prevent it from being too much of a threat though, keeping it from the higher tiers.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 3. Has enough sets & moves to make it an extremely unpredictable but
solid Pokémon. It has prio, strong stabs, good utility moves, anti-setup tools, it’s great. Funnily enough, that’s also why it can’t be ranked higher. You basically play some sort of roulette when playing this Pokémon; if you get the good matchup with the correct moves, congratulations! If you didn’t, then I’m very sorry, because Dragonite is not doing much…

Bage1: Tier 4. I haven’t tested this mon enough probably but even with Flutter gone and psyspam usage going down I’m not a huge believer in the mon. Dnite has always been an extremely one dimensional and linear Pokemon that most solid teams will naturally be able to play around. Choice Band does big damage but mons like Archaludon and Gholdengo, or even Gouging Fire can take advantage of it locking into Espeed, and faster pokemon can KO it if it locks into a STAB or coverage move. Assault Vest sets have never felt like they do enough damage and end up being a bit passive.

Eragon11145: 3. I think PaoNite is back to being one of the most common and dangerous archetypes in the tier and this mon is so glad to not have to put up with Flutter everywhere and Psychic terrain constantly blocking Espeed. It does compete with Entei a little bit but it does more damage and seems more consistent in that role to me.

Madaraaaa: T3. Dragonite cb or av is valid. Suffers the common archetype hail veil, but on the other side can face rilla, lando, inci, ogerpon easily enough. The moveset coverage is amazing, with pao can be disruptive.

Nido-Rus: Tier 3. I feel like CB has been a trap for quite a while now, but I’ve liked seeing the adaptations people have been bringing in with VGC sets. It seems to perform particularly well on the ting lu orthworm team and I’ve made some adaptations of that as well that have felt quite solid.

SMB: Tier 4, I rank chien pao at 3 so 1 tier lower makes sense since it only fits on that playstyle and it’s not 100% required. Solid mon overall which can do a lot of things, I think cb sets are not that good since it limitates a bit its potential and needs either chip or chien pao to get ohkos most times, also being locked is pretty bad for the kind of teams it fits into if the opponent runs something like gholdengo. AV or dd sets are superior imo, it definitely needs to switch moves for better results.

Yoda2798: Tier 3. Chien-Pao being as good as it is right now makes justifying Dragonite easier, along with Flutter Mane’s absence giving it an easier time locking into Extreme Speed while not being as reliant on Tera defensively (though it still does obviously like Tera a lot offensively). The most recent shift though is the rise of Orthworm + Ting-Lu, which Dragonite fits nicely with, solidifying it as a Tier 3 for me. As others have also said, exploring sets besides Choice Band has helped breath some new life into Dragonite as well.

Zee: Tier 3. Mostly going with this ranking for its role on the Orthworm team, as I think it’s one of the best beneficiaries of Shed Tail and/or partners to have next to Orthworm. Not the biggest believer in vanilla Chien-Pao Dnite squads but it will always be a Pokemon you have to at least respect in the builder so 3 feels fair.

4 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T3. Sinistcha is great at enabling so many other threats between healing through its amazing ability & life dew, redirecting with ragepowder, and setting up TR. It fits on a variety of teams such as set up oriented ones, or teams that just need some slight healing for extremely bulky attackers like Archaludon or Kyurem. Teams trying to take advantage of Sinistcha’s offense often falls flat, but Matcha Gotcha is such a great move that it can work, or is just perfect for spreading around damage and burns and keeping Sinistcha going. As i’ve said a bunch, there’s so many good grass types creating some stiff competition, but Sinistcha definitely has a place in the top 3 tiers.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 4. Although it’s better than before, it’s still lacking something to make it a great pick. It has amazing bulk and is able to live a lot of super effective moves, has speed control in Trick Room and has very good support moves in Rage Powder and Life Dew, but can be dead weight sometimes. Sure you can also run an offensive CM/NP set and get rid of this passiveness, but if you’re doing that you’re probably better using something else than Sinistcha. Hard to justify running this as your Grass type when you have the other amazing options (And stacking Grasses isn’t great unless it’s Rilla + Other grasses).

Bage1: Tier 4. This mon always feels less than the sum of its parts to me. I’m not a fan of its typing for a mon that wants to stick around a lot throughout the game healing teammates. It also competes with a lot of other grasses for a support role and Amoonguss in particular as a healer + redirector, where I generally think Amoon is better.

Eragon11145: 4. I’m a big fan of this mon in general but there’s other grasses I’d rather use a lot of the time and I’ve only really been convinced of its usefulness with one partner (Goltres) which I think makes it a better fit for tier 4 in terms of applicability.

Madaraaaa: T4. Particular pokemon that can viable in particular structures, but overall I’d say is too passive and has a lot of weaknesses. Struggles vs dragon, steel, fire.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Personally love this lil dude but it's rather limited in its scope of how it functions and what it supports. Current meta also has far too many grass resists, limiting its recovery potential and personal damage quite a bit.

SMB: Tier 3, this might be the time that i’m using Sinistcha the most, great on veil teams due to the role compression of redirection + set up + speed control which sometimes these teams lack and also good on tr or semi tr teams that have 1 or more set up otions, it’s obviously better on bulkier metas like this one

Yoda2798: Tier 3. The unique package of utility Sinistcha brings is surprisingly valuable, as a Trick Room setter with natural Fake Out immunity, Matcha Gotcha with an unexpectedly decent Special Attack providing some offensive pressure under TR, and Hospitality combining with Rage Powder and Life Dew to effectively support bulkier/setup teammates. Sinistcha is arguably the best Trick Room setter at the moment, and OSDT usage backs that up, despite appearing deceivingly low due to being split across the two different formes; Sinistcha is like the clear top TR setter by usage each round when you combine its usage, and top 15 in usage at worst. Yes, other Grass-types exist, but Sinistcha has a very solid niche and is still totally usable alongside Ogerpon-Wellspring, while forming a great TR core with the likes of Iron Hands and a strong support option for setup Pokemon.

Zee: Tier 3. I think Sinistcha is an excellent enabler that gets at least some value in almost every game. A ghost type with rage powder can be an effective disruption tool. It often forces calls between attacking its setup partner or attacking the Sinistcha going for Life Dew to heal the partner while it goes for Protect. Trick Room as an option is always great in a metagame where you’re more likely than not to face Tornadus in any given best of three match.

UR -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T4. Can take over & win games, but many pokemon it struggles into are becoming more popular like Raging Bolt & Iron Hands.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 4. The only good team with this Pokémon is that screens one, and I’m sorry to whoever did that team but I don’t think it’s that great. It requires a lot of turns to set up before it starts to do damage, has a weird speed stat, and one of the stabs is Hurricane AKA you’re not hitting when you need it to. Feels like a super matchup fish Pokémon for me.

Bage1: Tier 4. This feels like it only works in one archetype and can be a bit weak vs strong offense as it takes a while to get enough boosts to do consistent damage. I think there are other setup pokemon that have stronger matchups spreads vs the metagame while Moltres wins a few specific matchups very well.

Eragon11145: 4. I think this belongs with sinistcha in tier 4, the mons work really well together but have little use when not on that archetype, which I think makes it a little too specific a strategy to put higher than tier 4. Still a threatening mon that needs to be very respected in game due to its extremely high bulk but I haven’t seen it enough to put it in tier 3.

Madaraaaa: T4. I think only under screens can do the job, but in general exist better bulky setup wincon like gholdengo, raging bolt, gambit.

Nido-Rus: 4. Fun mon that was somewhat overused in the first few weeks after deo ban as it preys on slow bulky archetypes. Has a much harder time against more offensive stuff that can break through the defensive pivots that moltres relies on. A little too niche without enough overbearing or immediate pressure to rank this higher.

SMB: Tier 4, good on screens teams although most of its viability is probably due to sinistcha since they have a really good synergy, really benefits from the meta not having good offensive fairy types

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Moltres-Galar can do well against certain teams and has some nice matchups, but it relies on a lot of support, has underwhelming damage output and Speed, and has some rough matchups against the likes of Raging Bolt or Chien-Pao (and if you Tera you become weak to other stuff). A niche setup option that is very fishy and often does not live up to promise in practice.

Zee: 4. Originally nommed to 3 but I do think that was a bit of an overestimate. Still, it has great synergy with Sinistcha and pivots like Incineroar and can take over some games, but requires the dedicated support and is a bit slow to get going which can leave it prone to disruption or unfortunate RNG at times.

5 -> 3

reasoning

Actuarily: T4. Struggles to find the right lane between intimidate & offense, and many times you’d rather have incin for intimidate or other fire types for offense. But rock is a good offensive typing right now, so it definitely still has a place in the metagame.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 4. Being a Fire-Type that doesn’t resist Steel, is x4 weak to the 2 most popular Pokémon in the tier and only offers Intimidate/WoW as support + having a bad speed stat doesn’t feel great. It can still get a massive great matchup in some popular teams like Tornadus - Ogerpon-H sun, Gholdengo Fake Out Recycle, and that’s about it.

Bage1: Tier 4. Great at spreading damage but not something you should expect to be getting OHKOs with Rock Slide. Its awkward typing and speed tier means it really wants to have speed control on its side and it has a tendency to hog tera a bit. I don’t really like locking into single-target moves much as then it can really be exploited. Still, eragon did a good job explaining a lot of its upsides that still warrant it to go to tier 4 imo.

Eragon11145: 3. This mon is a really good more offensive intimidate option with greatest offensive stabs that threaten a good portion of the tier’s staples. I think you still have to have the right structure to be able to fit it but it’s had some really solid performances from what I’ve seen and has a pretty good matchup spread into the metagame, putting it in tier 3 for me.

Madaraaaa: T4. Needs tailwind to be viable, is just the worst intimidate and has heavy weaknesses vs water and ground… and this meta is dominated by waterpon and lando incarnate. Needs often to click tera to avoid ko, and I think damages of harca are a disappointing.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Definitely more usable than before and a cool offensive alternative to running incin, but its typing gives it a pretty crippling weakness to ogerpon-w and landorus, especially with both being able to outspeed and ohko. Fast strong rock slides are a whole lot better than before though.

SMB: Tier 5, many common weaknesses and average speed tier, I don’t think its niche is enough to be higher than this and most teams it could fit into prefer having different mons like entei, dragonite or incineroar

Yoda2798: Tier 4. Arcanine-Hisui still leaves a lot to be desired defensively due to Rock-type being awful in that regard, especially when combined with Fire, but on the flip side does offer something valuable offensively because of how strong Rock Slide is against a lot of the meta. With Incineroar not being all-powerful at the moment due to Pokemon like Ogerpon-Wellspring and Landorus-I, Arcanine is valuable as an alternate Intimidate option due to its higher Speed making it a nice Will-O-Wisp option, and factoring into its much better offensive capabilities. Still a niche option, but hasn’t been as completely displaced by Incineroar as previously thought.

Zee: Tier 4, the niche for an offensive Intimidate/Fire/Rock is definitely there but in the same vein, a lot of times I could see myself getting much more value out of Incineroar’s bulk for repeated Intimidates. CB Espeed can be threatening but it doesn’t get to positions where that takes over games for free.

3 -> 4

reasoning

Actuarily: T4. Has definitely dropped off after the Flutter Mane ban, where it was one of the best checks. Still can be oppressive to switch into, but there’s just a lot that outspeeds this and threatens it.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 4. I honestly thought this would be a better mon but after all this time I haven’t seen it do much outside of those Pao-Priority teams as the Assault Vest Pokémon / Shroom measure with Goggles. Way better Fire-types to run now that Mane & Deo aren’t around, and it’s very hard to justify using Entei if not a Priority Based team.

Bage1: Tier 4. Much less valuable now that Flutter Mane isn’t running the tier and other fire types such as Gouging Fire and Incineroar have become more popular. Has the problem where it really wants to be next to Pao but Pao teams often prefer the other fires. Still, it has a very powerful toolkit that will keep it from being irrelevant and Sacred Fire is one of the most spammable moves ever.

Eragon11145: 4. I’ve kind of swapped my opinions on Entei and Dragonite over the last few months as the mon hasn’t quite delivered to the standard I expected. Still definitely has a niche and has decent bulk but I think Dnite pairs better with Pao in some ways and Gouging Fire ironically competes with it pretty effectively for a spot on some of the physical offense teams.

Madaraaaa: T4. Viable only in pao teams, but also here is not a must, simply there are 3-4 better fire.

Nido-Rus: Tier 4. Gouging fire getting a proto speed boost makes it a much more competitive option over entei as it gets past this comp’s big issue of relying too heavily on priority to deal with speed control.

SMB: Tier 4, similar to what I said with dragonite but entei is a bit more one dimensional and has better replacements

Yoda2798: Tier 4. The Flutter Mane ban hurts Entei a lot as an Extreme Speed user/Chien-Pao partner as it has a drastically better matchup than Dragonite, but now the level of the two Pokemon have kind of swapped without it. With no longer being the primary partner for Chien-Pao, Entei has dropped a level from before, and outside of that combination it competes with a wide range of Fire-types (some like Gouging Fire that have risen up recently) that all offer other things which are usually better for your team than Entei.

Zee: 4. There’s just so much competition for your Fire type in the tier right now and between Chi-Yu and Hearthflame’s offensive capabilities, Incineroar and Gouging Fire’s utility, and Volcanion’s reliability there’s not a lot of spots where Entei makes a ton of sense. I still appreciate it as a good slot on Chien-Pao offense but that archetype as a whole has taken a hit in viability.

2 -> 1

reasoning

Actuarily: T1. As i mentioned with Landorus, after Flutter Mane we need to slightly lower the bar for what a T1 pokemon is, and Tornadus definitely fits the bill. It is THE tailwind setter, setting everything else to shame, and enabling so many different types of offense. As Bagel mentioned, there are a bunch of ways to run Tornadus between items & movesets, giving something that largely is a tailwind bot a lot of flexibility. Flying is also a pretty good typing right now.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 2. The best Speed control Pokémon the tier has. It has prio tailwind, taunt, weathers, and some very fun moves in bleakwind (lowers speed), icy wind (lowers speed + hits Landorus severely), etc. You are never landing your Bleakwinds when you need it though. Still, it’s not as bulky as it’d like it to be, and if you invest a lot of bulk you’re suddenly slow and not doing damage, so it can often get its partner in a 1v2 situation. Hates facing the Steel types the tier has, and hates even more proccing the Kingambit Defiant with Bleakwind. It’s an amazing Pokémon, but not a T1 material.

Bage1: Tier 1. Prankster Tailwind but you don’t have to trade offensive capabilities or longevity for the most consistent form of speed control in the game. So many games come down to “who can preserve their Torn the longest”. Torn is extremely customizable between its moveset, item, and spread so it can fit on any style bar hard trick room. Bleakwind is extremely spammable and a complementary attack to so many of its common partners such as Landorus-I and Gholdengo. There are pokemon such as Raging Bolt, Kingambit, and Archaludon that can take advantage of Tornadus but I think Torn’s ability to consistently put teammates in advantageous positions and amplify offense counteracts its weaknesses enough to make it a tier 1 mon.

Eragon11145: 1. This mon is annoyingly good and has really exposed some of the issues with dynamic speed for me. It gets tailwind up multiple times in most games all while firing off bleakwind after bleakwind, an offensive tool that really helps it stick around on the field in a much greater capacity than literally every other tailwind setter we’ve had this gen. It fits on so many teams in this format and is so far ahead of the other speed control options that tier 1 feels correct to me.

Madaraaaa: T2. Amazing and dominant pokemon, but is walled vs too many hightier archetypes, pokemons and in some scenarios after putting twind is just a dead weight.

Nido-Rus: Tier 2. This feels worse than before if anything to me, as it struggles to face raging bolt or hail (apart from resetting weather) and it also doesn’t appreciate the rise in bulky semiroom comps where it ends up as a sitting duck. Only has 4 moveslots in the end, so it hardly gets the chance to run all of bleakwind storm, tailwind, rain dance, taunt, protect. Anything it doesn’t run feels sorely missed.

SMB: Tier 2, best and most splashable speed control but there are a lot of things that can take advantage of it like gholdengo, raging bolt or kingambit. Meta defining mon but not good enough for tier 1, it probably hasn’t been worse than this in the whole gen

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Similar to Landorus-I but slightly weaker, I think this comes down to how far behind Ogerpon-Wellspring you measure Tornadus. It’s obviously very good, and THE speed control Pokemon, but beyond setting Tailwind is not as valuable, and also in recent times I think people have increasingly made/used effective teams that don’t rely on Tornadus for speed control, whether that be from Trick Room, priority spam, or fat stuff like Raging Bolt. Akaru Kokuyo summed up Tornadus’ downsides offensively/defensively well.
Zee: Tier 2. I would like to scream very loudly at the devs behind the dynamic speed change but Tornadus/TW as a whole still isn’t dominant enough to be Tier 1 imo, if it was I think we’d be seeing a lot more torn mirrors than we do now. Can brick pretty easily into teams with reliable Trick Room setups, priority spam, or just a lot of bulk like raging bolt and snow offense.

2 -> 1

reasoning

Actuarily: T2. Arguably one of the most oppressive pokemon, but it does have a couple of reliable checks and is very reliant on rain, as others have mentioned. But boy can it just run away with games like nothing else.

Akaru Kokuyo: Tier 2. I honestly thought this would climb up to Tier 1 but hasn’t been amazing lately. Don’t get me wrong, this thing can 6-0 teams by itself if you don’t respect it, but it requires a lot of support in order to do that. Has so many good moves and sets it’s actually scary. Biggest flaw it’s the lack of sustain I’d say, and although you can patch it with Grassy Terrain for example, it’s just not the same.

Bage1: Tier 2. Very reliant on rain to be consistently threatening, needs decent support to get around certain matchups, and can often get blitzed down before it can start steamrolling. I also don’t think non-Rain sets that don’t run Electro Shot are very good.

Eragon11145: 2. Very strong but is still a bit dependent on rain being up, which isn’t the easiest condition to ensure in this format. Stamina is still an excellent ability and I think this is one of the best mons in the tier but I don’t think it has the same level of prowess across many archetypes like Lando I, Wellspring, and Torn (the 3 mons I voted tier 1 for).

Madaraaaa: T2. Important to have strong special moves to avoid to be walled by this pokemon in some points of the game, in rain can shine but also outside with pivots support. Can be a machine but is not so fast, needs right support.

Nido-Rus: 2. Very strong but loses very hard to the few things it does lose to. Kind of just sits around on the field if you can prevent it from getting the boosts it needs to function.

SMB: Tier 2, excellent pokemon that can abuse unprepared teams to another level, but has some limitations, iron defense sets are generally better than id kommo but has similar issues with its tera and worse special bulk. Electro shot sets struggle with being around as much as the id sets do and needing weather can leave it in a bad spot many times.

Yoda2798: Tier 2. Archaludon has the potential to run away with games, but it also has to actually get boosts going first before it really applies pressure, which requires support to get going. People are also aware of Archaludon now so are less likely to use teams which just lose to it, Landorus-I especially is everywhere now and forces a tera, while Chien-Pao with Sacred Sword can also be a silver bullet for it. Archaludon has one of the highest ceilings, but its floor isn’t high enough for Tier 1, particularly due to its reliance on rain and accumulating boosts to be effective.

Zee: Tier 2. The offensive sets are reliant on Rain support to get going and the lack of self-sufficiency can be a big issue at times, especially when that support is having to run Pelipper or forcing Tornadus to wait a turn before it can set Tailwind. The Iron Defense set feels like a fish/begging to not get crit to me, there are much better options for that route in the tier imo like Orthworm or Kommo-o.

Changes:
T3 -> T2
T3 -> T2
T3 -> T4
T3 -> T4
T5 -> T4
T4 -> T3
T3 -> T2
T3 -> T4
T4 -> T3
T3 -> T2
T4 -> T3
T4 -> T3
T3 -> T2
T4 -> T3
UR -> T4
T5 -> T4
T3 -> T4
UR -> T5
UR -> T5
UR -> T5
UR -> T5
UR ->T5
T4 -> T5
T4 -> T5
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> UR
T5 -> T4

 

[Schister]

-> T5

Mons on sample teams deserve a spot on the vr.

 

[Flying Beagle]

-> off the samples

Mons not on the vr don't deserve a spot in the samples.

 

[SuckyLucky]

3 —> 4

Not a great mon, doesn’t fit on stuff like it used to. Bad speed tier + Lando and Wellspring being 2 of the 3 best mons in the tier doesn’t help. Even ladder barely touches this guy.

 

[Fangame10]

UR -> 5

I just think it's neat

 

[|Powerman|]

Tier 4 -> Tier 3

Very useful as a special attacker, not only on hail teams where it spams blizzard, but also on other teams where its ice-ground coverage is useful. It is very effective against pokemon such as the genies and Ogerpon-W.

Sub 2 Attack

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect

This set allows it to sub up on less favorable matchups and allows it to beat some of its checks such as gholdengo and glimmora in the right conditions such as a teammate with Fake Out, redirection, or simply catching them on the switch.

 

[SuckyLucky]

Fangame on his way to drag Kyurem to t1 over the remaining course of the gen:

 

[Heatranator]

-> UR/Tier 5
Been using a specs glaceon team, and it god damn destroys everything in the tier. For reference, modest tera ice choice specs blizzard does 42%-49% to the standard incineroar set. INCINEROAR, WHICH IS A BULKY RESIST. It's basically diet kyurem/articuno that can work somewhat well in trick room, while not having to worry about fairy and dragon types and can also abuse snow cloak shenanigans which is insane. It also still has insane bulk under snow, as assault vest kingambit iron head does 64% maximum to it, with the following sucker punch never koing it if glaceon is at full health. Combine this with aurora veil and freeze chances, and glaceon is so hard to ko. Even outside of snow, it can still work, with ice beam or freeze dry chunking most things and it is able to support its teammates with icy wind shenanigans. It can use water pulse against fire types if needed, but who wants to use that when you have blizzard shenanigans. It does have competition from kyurem, but since that's ranked tier 4, and it has other issues (speed isn't low enough against opposing trick room), tier 5 I think is fair.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2105190429-ov1a2crpcny2y4736utnmqj4q49ztnepw Glaceon doing its thing
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2105199925 Glaceon working under trick room, showing its not entirely reliant on snow being active.
Edit: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2113413530
Cybertron used it in this game (yes, I know this is VGC), and it showed how amazing it is, so I think a top player using it is a worthy contender for Tier 5.

 

[Schister]

T4 -> UR
Zero function in the tier over Volcanion, which itself is being heavily competed with and pressured in this metagame thanks to lando-i and Bolt. I genuinely cannot think of a single structure that would want heatran right now over any other available fire type.

 

[tyo]

-> UR/Tier 5
Been using a specs glaceon team, and it god damn destroys everything in the tier. For reference, modest tera ice choice specs blizzard does 42%-49% to the standard incineroar set. INCINEROAR, WHICH IS A BULKY RESIST. It's basically diet kyurem/articuno that can work somewhat well in trick room, while not having to worry about fairy and dragon types and can also abuse snow cloak shenanigans which is insane. It also still has insane bulk under snow, as assault vest kingambit iron head does 64% maximum to it, with the following sucker punch never koing it if glaceon is at full health. Combine this with aurora veil and freeze chances, and glaceon is so hard to ko. Even outside of snow, it can still work, with ice beam or freeze dry chunking most things and it is able to support its teammates with icy wind shenanigans. It can use water pulse against fire types if needed, but who wants to use that when you have blizzard shenanigans. It does have competition from kyurem, but since that's ranked tier 4, and it has other issues (speed isn't low enough against opposing trick room), tier 5 I think is fair.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2105190429-ov1a2crpcny2y4736utnmqj4q49ztnepw Glaceon doing its thing
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9doublesou-2105199925 Glaceon working under trick room, showing its not entirely reliant on snow being active.
Edit: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2113413530
Cybertron used it in this game (yes, I know this is VGC), and it showed how amazing it is, so I think a top player using it is a worthy contender for Tier 5.

i respect the glaceon agenda

 

[Trelloant]

-> T1
"Pokemon that dominate a large portion of the metagame. They are either quite powerful or offer great team support, and can fit on almost any team. You can't really go wrong by using these Pokemon."

This is the best mon in the format right now by far IMO. I struggle to think of a archetype, besides full trick room, that wouldn't enjoy having a landorus-i on it. When I look at the threat list in the T1 and T2 LO Landorus only loses outright to Chein Pao and Ogerpon-W and otherwise it out speeds and OHKO/2HKO's the entire list. With either using Tera Poison OR minimal support from a TW or a Fake Out it can handle those threats calmly too. Otherwise it can do tons of neutral spread damage to almost the entire tier or hit it with a powerful sheer force LO sludge bomb. I think it matches the definition of a T1 threat.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Chien-Pao: 321-380 (106.6 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Poison Landorus: 231-274 (72.4 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tera Poison Landorus Sludge Bomb vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Ogerpon-Wellspring: 471-556 (134.1 - 158.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
124 Atk Wellspring Mask Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tera Poison Landorus: 244-288 (76.4 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I know you just voted so I'm gonna run through some counter point reasonings. Just using names to clarify the point im talking about.

Arguments/Counterpoints

Kokoyo I think that 331 is very fast in the current DOU metagame with only two extremely relevant dangerous mons outspeeding it. Prankster TW is extremely common and very difficult to stop and you must be planning for Lando + TW/FO in the builder. Above calcs show the mons tasked with revenge killing it can very much struggle.

To bagels point I think the opponent is put in a worse guessing game because those immunities generally mean either risking a weakness or a strong neutral attack (not many bulky flying mons). If the lando player gets it right it is extremely punishing on opponent switches and typically still safe when incorrect. I think that puts the onus on the opponent instead of the Lando player.

SMB 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tera Poison Landorus Sludge Bomb vs. 216 HP / 0 SpD Ninetales-Alola: 460-541 (134.8 - 158.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO behind TW/after FO lando can really cause problems against snow, now tera ghost can disrupt that too. It doesnt have great options besides Kyruem EP to handle it after Tera(252 SpA Kyurem Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tera Poison Landorus: 162-192 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Yoda Again I really do not think a single team with a Landorus on it besides full trick room dislikes that landorus. I think in the terms of T1 it completely fits as an elite damage threat that can ohko/2hko most of the format and at 331 is not slow. I feel like this mon dominates the current metagame much more than ogerpon-w.

Zee I think the matchup as shown above is not that bad. Ogerpon-W struggles after Lando uses its Tera to retaliate if it doesn't Tera itself. I also think that access to T1 cannot be determined by a 1v1 matchup against Ogerpon. Its about how those mons impact the tier and Landorus is dominating teambuilding and can apply tons of neutral damage to the entire metagame while outspeeding the majority of it.

edit: i oversimplified the snow argument that is not a great spot for lando but he can still apply pressure in that matchup. Switched up those calcs.

also see round of 32 in ODST usage: