I mostly agree, but
Edit: I understand that most people want it to move down to B or even B-, so maybe it should just stay in B+. It's definitely a stiff mon with one role and one role only, but I think it performs it's role pretty well.
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I mostly agree, but
Edit: I understand that most people want it to move down to B or even B-, so maybe it should just stay in B+. It's definitely a stiff mon with one role and one role only, but I think it performs it's role pretty well.
Voltorb to B+ 
VR just got updated and it moved down to B-. How?
No seriously how.
20 speed ties Diglett
and outspeeds Girafarig 
. You have access to Taunt, Volt Switch, and Thunderbolt which are all exceedingly valuable. You can also tera type into Bug or Ice to be able to deal with Diglett, Girafarig and Toedscool.
40 HP, 50 Defense, 55 special defense is really good combined with eviolite, especially when Voltorb is so fast that its quite hard to hit. Having Diglett level speed is always valuable.
Not being scarf locked is also really nice, as your biggest competition is Magnemite
who needs the scarf to be able to function.
Its not perfect, but it deserves more recognition.
VR just got updated and it moved down to B-. How?
No seriously how.
20 speed ties Diglett
and outspeeds Girafarig . You have access to Taunt, Volt Switch, and Thunderbolt which are all exceedingly valuable. You can also tera type into Bug or Ice to be able to deal with Diglett, Girafarig and Toedscool.40 HP, 50 Defense, 55 special defense is really good combined with eviolite, especially when Voltorb is so fast that its quite hard to hit. Having Diglett level speed is always valuable.
Not being scarf locked is also really nice, as your biggest competition is Magnemite
who needs the scarf to be able to function.Its not perfect, but it deserves more recognition.
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Voltorb to B+
VR just got updated and it moved down to B-. How?
No seriously how.
20 speed ties Diglett
40 HP, 50 Defense, 55 special defense is really good combined with eviolite, especially when Voltorb is so fast that its quite hard to hit. Having Diglett level speed is always valuable.
Not being scarf locked is also really nice, as your biggest competition is Magnemite
Its not perfect, but it deserves more recognition.
Echoing this post. Been seeing Orb pretty consistently recently, it's doing very good for itself and can pick & choose which target to delete with Tera Blast very effectively. I'd honestly swap it and Zorua's placement.
Zorua is one the few mons with knock off in the tier, which is invaluable in addition to its dark typing, giving it a really strong attack to hit opponents with.
You are immediately threatening to Giraffe (before tera, of course) due to this, in addition to having a fantastic movepool with options such as encore, u turn, sucker punch, memento, taunt, swords dance and nasty plot. Zorua's statline is pretty good, as 65 attack, 40 defenses and enough speed to have 17 at level 5 are all great traits. Both a scarf and eviolite set are available, and Tera blast Fighting allows you to destroy Pawniard, which would otherwise effectively wall you. Disguising as a rapid spinner also means you can reliably get the spin off when your opponent could try to spin block and instead immediately die.
It has gotten worse since rufflet got banned, but B+ is about right. Voltorb deserves to come up and be with Zorua, not have them swap places.
I've actually had lots of success with avalanche on base form wooper, especially against the very popular toedscruel. He also sets up spikes, which admittedly isn't too useful because of spin quax, but it does often deter or even threaten a kill on a quax or toedscruel switching in to spin.Wooper C -> B-
To be honest I think this mon deserves a little more credit. Its BST isn't the most desirable, but it does have some nice qualities that can get some good value in a match.
- First, it has a nice typing. With the typing defense profile, you can switch in on mons like Magnemite and Pawniard and it's pretty hard for them to touch you, while you threaten them out with your Ground STAB. You resist Pawniards Iron Head, Brick Break won't hurt too bad. Pawn also doesn't always fit Night Slash into the moveset. Additionally, you're basically untouchable to a Magnemite, resisting one STAB and being immune to the other.
- Second, Unaware. This is an excellent ability to have, as you can shut down things like Agility Bulk Up Rufflet and the occasional Swords Dance Pawniard or a screens team.
- It has Stealth Rock, Spikes, and reliable recovery in Recover so if you run a mon like Pawniard on the same team as Wooper, the Pawniard is free from having to carry rocks.
- Annoying utility like Yawn and Haze can make this mon very nice to have on the team.
I think Wooper could belong in B-, because tbh I think some of the mons in B- are worse than Wooper (Slowpoke and Numel stand out to me, even if I love using Numel on Sun)
Idk about poop woop cause you're suddenly weak to Diglett but maybe it has something good? Its very easy to forget about
I am not sure most lc players know but shroodle has prankster which can be invaluable. It also gets swords dance , poison jab, parting shot , super fang and toxic . It also gets trailblaze, u turn , pounce , acrobatics , encore, taunt ,substitute , thief (which can mess up Pokémon that require a certain item being necessary on their set )and weather setting . Also guessing the 50/50 between unburden or prankster is troublesome and guessing wrong could result in a bad result .also stab facade is strong . It has base 65 attack and has base 75 speed . It also is only outsped by buizel which means it can focus into a defensive or more offensive spread . Regardless it needs little to no speed investment .
My best guess is that for unburden set
Shroodle@iron ball/normal gem/toxic orb/
fling
Swords dance
Posion jab
Acrobatics
Or for prankster
Shroodle@oranberry
toxic
Paritng shot\tuant
Substitute/ knock off
Protect \ Tera blast \ encore
And compared to other prankster mons , impadimp while a solid mon , shroodle is able to deal more with psychical damage . And the only other prankster mon in the tier is riolu. It only uses prankster to set up so shroodle should have a unique niche in the tier.
just to note: Tera is still in work ,dark gives a immunity from a once weakness and makes the Mon prankster immune . It also could be Tera ice to hit toedscruel,digglet and mudbray hard
My best guess is that for unburden set
Shroodle@iron ball/normal gem/toxic orb/
fling
Swords dance
Posion jab
Acrobatics
Or for prankster
Shroodle@oranberry
toxic
Paritng shot\tuant
Substitute/ knock off
Protect \ Tera blast \ encore
And compared to other prankster mons , impadimp while a solid mon , shroodle is able to deal more with psychical damage . And the only other prankster mon in the tier is riolu. It only uses prankster to set up so shroodle should have a unique niche in the tier.
just to note: Tera is still in work ,dark gives a immunity from a once weakness and makes the Mon prankster immune . It also could be Tera ice to hit toedscruel,digglet and mudbray hard
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I think people might have been overlooking gimmighoul . It has base 70 defenses and 75 sp attack. Along with a base 40 hp with a good defensive type can mean it can take a hit . Along with being pure ghost it has spin immunities and can set up screens without brick break attempting to respond . This Mon gets stab shadow ball , power gem, light screen, reflect, protect, substitute, Tera blast . I think this Mon deserves some consideration and experimentation. I will update this later once I have more details . Just to note the calcs against mudbray , one off the tankiest mons of the tier . This Mon is underrated and I think it has a niche . The movepool is a large weakness but the speed is made up by the tankibilty . Speed investment and or scarfs can make this Mon a threat if used correctly. I am not trying to replace drifloon or gastly , just trying to diversify the roster of mons
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I don't support a rise with this mon, although the qualities mentioned are pretty nice, it has a pretty obvious weakness, that terrible speed stat. While this can be solved with rattled, your max speed is 11, so x 1.5 is a 16.5, rounding down to 16. This still means Gimmighoul is outsped by really good mons like max speed drifloon, gastly, scarfers, girafarig, etc, meaning you'd need to activate Rattled twice just to outspeed some mons. (You still are outsped by already fast scarfers too) Its defenses and offensive power can't be abused well because of this speed, making it a poor option
The coverage is also pretty bad, if the opponent has Pawniard (which most teams do), you're either forced to switch or you have to tera to beat it, and the mon simply isn't worth using tera when you could've used a better ghost anyway that can deal with Pawn a little better (Fluffy ghost or will-o/twave floon)
There are much better options than Gimmighoul for Ghost types, if you want offensive you go Gastly, more defensive with Drifloon. These mons are both much faster and can abuse their utility or power really well, unlike Gimmighoul. Spinblocking too. Gimmi is outshined by the ghost types mentioned before, as well as Greavard.
Shroodle isn't really that much of a threat at the moment. Many other Pokemon get access to Swords Dance and they use it way more effectively, for example Diglett or Pawniard. Black Sludge is considered unviable since passive recovery doesn't give much with LC numbers, you would be much better off running Eviolite for the added bulk or Berry Juice for the ability to heal back up to full after surviving a hit with below half health. It's best set? Prankster as a secondary weather setter or screens. Otherwise? Not really that good.
As a prankster user, I personally think Impidimp outclasses it. It also gets parting shot, thief and taunt. But it also importantly gets light screen reflect and thunder wave, which are really good moves for a prankster pokemon. Add on the fact that it has better typing and I just think it’s a better prankster pokemon. Shroodle is definetly better offensively though.
Quick nomination post to make things clear:
B- -> B/B+
18 Speed is really good in a Gastly infested metagame where 19 Speed Pokemon have been reduced to merely Pokemon such as Wingull and Buizel outside of Rain, typing lets it handle Gastly, Pawniard and Gothita (with exception of Scarf Trick) as well as absorbing Toxic Spikes, and can setup against those Pokemon with Nasty Plot and hit most of the metagame for neutral damage, netting 2HKOs on threats like Mareanie, Quaxly, and OHKO Foongus and Toedscool with +2 Fire Blast after Stealth Rock damage. If needed, it can use defensive Tera types like Flying to avoid getting revenge killed by Diglett and have a better matchup against Mudbray. Lastly, though not as important as the other traits, it can be used as a last effort to dish 25% damage to spinners thanks to Aftermath, being able to beat Toedscool if it's chipped already in said range.
A- -> B+
Very self-explanatory. Nymble still does its job really well, except that Gastly is everywhere now, and there are a lot more defensive threats able to manage it effortlessly, adding on top of that that one of the biggest reasons it was viable, Girafarig, is gone.
B -> A+
The biggest jump in this VR is Foongus, which thanks to Girafarig's departure, its viability has skyrocketed. Foongus can handle Ground-types in Mudbray and Diglett much better than Toedscool, can absorb Toxic Spikes and has access to Synthesis. In the 1v1 it still suffers a bit against Toedscool but it can outlast it thanks to Giga Drain + Synthesis, meaning it is more likely we see Foongus more often to check itself.
B -> A-
Gothita is now more efficient to use thanks to Girafarig being gone, most common set is CM Rest where it can switch into passive threats like Mareanie and Shellos, and use them as setup fodder in order to trap things. It can choose to run Charm to deal with Pokemon like Quaxly, Crabrawler, and Mudbray by lowering their Attack stats to comfortably setup, or Tera Blast Fighting to nuke Pokemon that would otherwise keep it in check like Pawniard. Scarf Trick sets are no slouch either as they help it outspeed Pokemon like Gastly and force them out so it can use its coverage against the switch-in, ranging from Tera Blast Fighting, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, and so on.
B -> B+
I know this might look like smoke but Shell Smashers in hyper offensive teams are able to perform clean wallbreaks if they get proper support from Pokemon like Impidimp on screens or Memento spam from the likes of Diglett and Glimmet. Especially, Shellder is able to OHKO both spinners thanks to Ice Shard given that Toedscool does not Tera into Water/Steel, and Tera Rock Rock Blast at +2 against Quaxly. Still, Pokemon like Tera Water Mudbray are able to put a halt on Shellder's rampage and take a Liquidation, then threaten it afterwards thanks to Stamina boosts. Ice Shard also has the perk of going first thanks to its boosted Speed, meaning it can kill Eviolite Diglett if it gets chipped, or play around Sucker Punch Pawniard at low health. Chewtle is more straightforward, as +2 Tera Dark Strong Jaw Crunch can tear big holes in teams by weakening Mareanie and Foongus, as well as resisting Sucker Punch from Pawniard and Diglett, with the drawback of less bulk. Protect is still a good option if you don't want to get messed up by Nymble.
B -> B+
Drifloon has started to be seen more as a Defogger thanks to physical sets using the combo of Acrobatics + Tera Blast Fighting, being able to act as a decent spinblocker while at it by switching into Quaxly, and bop Pawniard who is everywhere and would otherwise deter it from removing hazards.
Shellos is a really bulky Water-type able to set Stealth Rock, and it can choose to run either Sticky Hold or Storm Drain depending on what it wants to do, as well as use a myriad of defensive Teras, highlitghting Dragon due to the fundamental resistances to Water, Grass and Electric in Sticky Hold and Ground in Storm Drain to comfortably hold Volt Switch users and manage Quaxly. CMN sets can also be run but suffer a lot more because of the offensive pressure of Gastly and the risk of being statused by Toxic from Mareanie, or Spore from Toedscool and Foongus, which are a big pain. Lastly, Larvesta benefits a lot from a metagame ridden with Grass-types to check Ground-types, meaning it can easily run both defensive and offensive pivot sets, and dish out damage and regain momentum for its team.
B+ -> A-
A logical change with Girafarig's ban is the rise of Fighting-types, and Mankey is no exception. Being one of the most excepcional Scarf users with 17 Speed, it can abuse it's STAB Close Combat to dish out damage. It now runs more Night Slash because of Gastly, so there might be nothing else to say about it.
18 Speed is really good in a Gastly infested metagame where 19 Speed Pokemon have been reduced to merely Pokemon such as Wingull and Buizel outside of Rain, typing lets it handle Gastly, Pawniard and Gothita (with exception of Scarf Trick) as well as absorbing Toxic Spikes, and can setup against those Pokemon with Nasty Plot and hit most of the metagame for neutral damage, netting 2HKOs on threats like Mareanie, Quaxly, and OHKO Foongus and Toedscool with +2 Fire Blast after Stealth Rock damage. If needed, it can use defensive Tera types like Flying to avoid getting revenge killed by Diglett and have a better matchup against Mudbray. Lastly, though not as important as the other traits, it can be used as a last effort to dish 25% damage to spinners thanks to Aftermath, being able to beat Toedscool if it's chipped already in said range.
Very self-explanatory. Nymble still does its job really well, except that Gastly is everywhere now, and there are a lot more defensive threats able to manage it effortlessly, adding on top of that that one of the biggest reasons it was viable, Girafarig, is gone.
The biggest jump in this VR is Foongus, which thanks to Girafarig's departure, its viability has skyrocketed. Foongus can handle Ground-types in Mudbray and Diglett much better than Toedscool, can absorb Toxic Spikes and has access to Synthesis. In the 1v1 it still suffers a bit against Toedscool but it can outlast it thanks to Giga Drain + Synthesis, meaning it is more likely we see Foongus more often to check itself.
Gothita is now more efficient to use thanks to Girafarig being gone, most common set is CM Rest where it can switch into passive threats like Mareanie and Shellos, and use them as setup fodder in order to trap things. It can choose to run Charm to deal with Pokemon like Quaxly, Crabrawler, and Mudbray by lowering their Attack stats to comfortably setup, or Tera Blast Fighting to nuke Pokemon that would otherwise keep it in check like Pawniard. Scarf Trick sets are no slouch either as they help it outspeed Pokemon like Gastly and force them out so it can use its coverage against the switch-in, ranging from Tera Blast Fighting, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt, and so on.
I know this might look like smoke but Shell Smashers in hyper offensive teams are able to perform clean wallbreaks if they get proper support from Pokemon like Impidimp on screens or Memento spam from the likes of Diglett and Glimmet. Especially, Shellder is able to OHKO both spinners thanks to Ice Shard given that Toedscool does not Tera into Water/Steel, and Tera Rock Rock Blast at +2 against Quaxly. Still, Pokemon like Tera Water Mudbray are able to put a halt on Shellder's rampage and take a Liquidation, then threaten it afterwards thanks to Stamina boosts. Ice Shard also has the perk of going first thanks to its boosted Speed, meaning it can kill Eviolite Diglett if it gets chipped, or play around Sucker Punch Pawniard at low health. Chewtle is more straightforward, as +2 Tera Dark Strong Jaw Crunch can tear big holes in teams by weakening Mareanie and Foongus, as well as resisting Sucker Punch from Pawniard and Diglett, with the drawback of less bulk. Protect is still a good option if you don't want to get messed up by Nymble.
Drifloon has started to be seen more as a Defogger thanks to physical sets using the combo of Acrobatics + Tera Blast Fighting, being able to act as a decent spinblocker while at it by switching into Quaxly, and bop Pawniard who is everywhere and would otherwise deter it from removing hazards.
Shellos is a really bulky Water-type able to set Stealth Rock, and it can choose to run either Sticky Hold or Storm Drain depending on what it wants to do, as well as use a myriad of defensive Teras, highlitghting Dragon due to the fundamental resistances to Water, Grass and Electric in Sticky Hold and Ground in Storm Drain to comfortably hold Volt Switch users and manage Quaxly. CMN sets can also be run but suffer a lot more because of the offensive pressure of Gastly and the risk of being statused by Toxic from Mareanie, or Spore from Toedscool and Foongus, which are a big pain. Lastly, Larvesta benefits a lot from a metagame ridden with Grass-types to check Ground-types, meaning it can easily run both defensive and offensive pivot sets, and dish out damage and regain momentum for its team.
A logical change with Girafarig's ban is the rise of Fighting-types, and Mankey is no exception. Being one of the most excepcional Scarf users with 17 Speed, it can abuse it's STAB Close Combat to dish out damage. It now runs more Night Slash because of Gastly, so there might be nothing else to say about it.
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Untiered -> on this list somewhere!These are probably the most underrated mons in the tier!
Wiglett is one of the fastest in LC, and while its attack stat leaves much to be desired and it doesn't get very good coverage, you can compensate for that with life orb and tera water. This gives moves like aqua jet and liquidation boosted power. It removes threats like tera ground quaxly, larvesta, and most sweepers in the tier. Put it on a rain team for extra water damage and this is an amazing revenge killer and hard to get rid of thanks to its speed. Oh, and I forgot to mention it has gooey for when it does get hit.
Rolycoly has an insane move pool for a defensive pivot. It gets stealth rock, spikes, willo, reflect, AND it spins? Also, most people will try to use a move like aqua jet once they see rolycoly. If you have eviolite, this will not kill it unless maybe it's a life orb quaxly. With steam engine, this raises your speed by a lot. And you can use that speed to use rolycoly's secret weapon: it also goes boom. Explosion also gets rid of most of the tier's sweepers, so it's probably the second best spinner in the tier under toed.
I don't have much to say about Larvitar other than it has a above average attack stat, it gets dragon dance, and it has guts as its ability. Give it a flame orb, dragon dance the first turn, then once the orb kicks in, tera normal facade. The only things that counter it are pawniard and ghost and fighting types. These are pretty common, so get rid of them first, then use larvitar.
These are pokemon that really no one uses right now, but they most definitely should.
These pokemon definitely have a place to shine, but that place isnt in regular SV LC.
If youre really interested in using them you'd have to play SV LCRU instead.
Wiglett is incredibly weak and doesnt have arena trap like diglett so there's really no reason to use it.
Rolycoly serves as a fire block + rapid spinner, neither are needed in SV LC currently.
Larvitar's 4x weakness to both grass and water makes it unusable. Every team has a rapid spinner and the rapid spinners are usually Quax and Toedscool. You could use tera to not die immediately, but what do you actually gain from that? The mon doesnt have the power to sweep like it wants to.
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Voltorb prob belongs in the a-/b+ range. There's many tour replays of it doing pretty well. 20 speed is very good, and even if it is tera reliant, stab bolt-beam coverage is really hard to pivot around. Its also like kinda fat fsr? Its def a very real threat.
Edit: personally think its better than mag
(both are close tho)
Edit: personally think its better than mag
(both are close tho)
B -> B+/A-Shellos feels really nice right now. It can reliably take neutral hits from lots from mons and provide a lot of during a game. It also can utilize tera really well with Tera Ground to bait Electric Type moves like Thunderbolts from Gastly and Drifloon, Volt Switches from Wattrel, Voltorb and of course Magnemite. Tera Ground is super useful for Mareanie, since it can't Surf, will do minimal damage with Sludge Bomb and although Ice Beam has been seen on it, it's not the most common for Mareanie to use it. Storm Drain is really nice to wall Quaxly, (it is very funny into encore Quaxly) Mareanie and rain teams (Buizel), which have proved to be very effective and threatening to a lot of teams. Stealth Rock is really cool for Shellos to have, and what it has now is way cooler than the CurseAmnesia set of SS. Maybe isn't worth going into A-, but I think it deserves to rise a little
Also drop Nymble, you didn't hear it from me though
Wiglett doesn't need arena trap, it OHKOs almost anything with the circumstances I mentioned.
Also, the thing about larvitar vs. quad and toed doesn't add up. I did the calcs. After a Dragon Dance, larvitar outspeeds quaxly, so it's most likely gonna aqua jet.
252+ Atk Life Orb Quaxly Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Normal Larvitar: 105-125 (43.5 - 51.8%) -- 8.6% chance to 2HKO
So Life Orb Quax 2HKOs on a good day. Meanwhile, Guts-boosted 2x tera stab facade:
252 Atk Guts Tera Normal Larvitar Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Quaxly: 22-27 (100 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
also, toed's standard set is spikes, spin, spore, and knock. No grass moves except for the rare power whip, which has terrible accuracy.
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you heard it from me
No offense, but a lot of new players seem to misunderstand the ideas of the Viability rankings.
A) Pokemon are ranked on the vr based on how good they are in a variety of Match up. A good example imo is shellos which is a near auto win into rain but is a mon that is very weak to tspikes.
A pokemon like wiglett might have good mu into some teams, but it has a horrible mu into very common pokemon such as quax mareanie and shellos
B) Vr assumes that opponents are using team that are considered at least somewhat viable and are applying competent counterplay.
"Wiglett doesn't need arena trap, it OHKOs almost anything with the circumstances I mentioned."
It kinda does need it if it wants to be anywhere as good as diglett. Any opponent with a water or grass type will almost always just switch into the wiglett. If ppl play around it well It doesnt offer much at its worst.
"Also, the thing about larvitar vs. quad and toed doesn't add up. I did the calcs. After a Dragon Dance, larvitar outspeeds quaxly, so it's most likely gonna aqua jet."
Again, this assumes that ppl see ur larvitar, whos flame orb could likely already have been activated if u switch mid turn. A lot of pokemon can just like hit the tar for near ko damage cuz it doesnt have evio. You also assume here that u are using tera, which in itself means ur making a concession at that point which is something to keep in mind.
C) They are practical, what I mean basically is that they arent just good once they are in play, but can be Brought into the game in a reasonable amount of positions. They also, have to be able to do there rolls consistently.
Wiglett and tar are basically paper thin. You can bring them in on slow u turn(not super common) or a sac ( generally not great lol) and thats about it. Larvitar has a electric immunity but that doesnt really help much cuz u still need to gamble around electrics at best.
As for Coal, the compression of hazards and spinning sounds good on paper but in practice you end up not really being able to both maintain hazards and keep ur opponents hazards off, so u need to pick ur poison. Its also important to note that being passive and giving easy momentum can be taken advantage off by a strong player. Coal for instance doesnt really threaten common spin blockers or spinners, so even if it can do 2 things it doesnt really do either well.
D) The pokemon has a niche that justifies using it over something else
Why would I want to use wiglett of buizel? Why would I use larvitar over a sweeper like crabrawler? Why use coal over something like glimmet and or toed?
I dont want you to feel like im saying these pokemons are bad. Good pokemon do slip through the cracks on some occasion, but its important to present theses pokemon according to the criteria the community uses to judges pokemon.
Also, replays vs good players often help to prove a point
Final note, but its better to try to research stuff by asking in discord or looking on the index to confirm info. If your argument lies on very clearly false statements like
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-01/moveset/gen9lc-1760.txt
Even before girafarig ( sap sipper mon) There was roughly a 50/50 shot that toed had giga, and a bit more that it has one of giga or whip (I think idk the math lol)
Stuff like this makes ur arguments look kinda unreliable.
Tldr: i encourage to keep posting, but for ur sake its easier to get ur point across if u keep these in mind
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more of a meme then anything but imma put it here bc i can,
-> C- or C
a really niche pick but i've been having some fun with it, venonat, similarly to nymble, gets the tinted lens ability. however, unlike nymble, it doesn't get first impression, a great move in it's arsenal. though let's look at the numbers, venonat has higher stats in every category except speed, where they both fall under the 45 speed tier. venonat also gets the move poison fang, a move that has a 50% chance of badly poisoning the opponent, aswell as protect to stall out screens and weathers alike.
basically what I'm tryna get at is that, i don't consider venonat superior to nymble. more like a side-grade, exchanging the assination skills of first impression for much higher bulk and damage output. like a wallbreaker of sorts, being able to consistently toxic the opponent whilst being able to hit them with tinted lens boosted moves in the same turn.
236+ Atk Life Orb Tinted Lens Venonat Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Sandygast: 8-10 (36.3 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after toxic damage
236+ Atk Life Orb Tinted Lens Venonat Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 140 Def Eviolite Crabrawler: 8-10 (38 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after toxic damage
236+ Atk Life Orb Venonat Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 9-12 (42.8 - 57.1%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
-> C- or Ca really niche pick but i've been having some fun with it, venonat, similarly to nymble, gets the tinted lens ability. however, unlike nymble, it doesn't get first impression, a great move in it's arsenal. though let's look at the numbers, venonat has higher stats in every category except speed, where they both fall under the 45 speed tier. venonat also gets the move poison fang, a move that has a 50% chance of badly poisoning the opponent, aswell as protect to stall out screens and weathers alike.
basically what I'm tryna get at is that, i don't consider venonat superior to nymble. more like a side-grade, exchanging the assination skills of first impression for much higher bulk and damage output. like a wallbreaker of sorts, being able to consistently toxic the opponent whilst being able to hit them with tinted lens boosted moves in the same turn.
236+ Atk Life Orb Tinted Lens Venonat Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Sandygast: 8-10 (36.3 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after toxic damage236+ Atk Life Orb Tinted Lens Venonat Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 140 Def Eviolite Crabrawler: 8-10 (38 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after toxic damage236+ Atk Life Orb Venonat Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 9-12 (42.8 - 57.1%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO
in current meta using a mon weak to stealth rocks defensively is not a good idea seeing as how good of a spinblocker gastly and even greavard to a certain extent is. at best venonat can be a physical attacker that u have no reason to use over nymble which in my mind makes me believe that it does not belong on the vr as you miss out on very crucial stuff like first impression and u turn.more of a meme then anything but imma put it here bc i can,
a really niche pick but i've been having some fun with it, venonat, similarly to nymble, gets the tinted lens ability. however, unlike nymble, it doesn't get first impression, a great move in it's arsenal. though let's look at the numbers, venonat has higher stats in every category except speed, where they both fall under the 45 speed tier. venonat also gets the move poison fang, a move that has a 50% chance of badly poisoning the opponent, aswell as protect to stall out screens and weathers alike.
basically what I'm tryna get at is that, i don't consider venonat superior to nymble. more like a side-grade, exchanging the assination skills of first impression for much higher bulk and damage output. like a wallbreaker of sorts, being able to consistently toxic the opponent whilst being able to hit them with tinted lens boosted moves in the same turn.
i have no time this year to make lenghty posts like id want to but i wanna give my quick two cents on some mons:
i think this mon is at least as good as quaxly, if not better. it gives you incredible utility between its bulk, poisons and absortion of tspikes. it can tera ghost to become immortal and escape cm goth shenanigans which are bad regardless but is what holds it back kinda.
i dont think bray is as relevant as it was, if it ever was a rank to begin with. it doesnt see as much usage in wl as its rank would suggest, and its not easy to fit onto a team with just how good diglett and toedscool are, which are by far its main competition. also it doesnt fare well vs top 2 mons gastly and toed.
mons insane rn, easy a rank if not a+.
to b+ with its fellow rain mons, it makes absolutely no sense to have them separately. you dont use buizel without shroodle lol
to a. at first i thought itd be an a+ mon, but it doesnt feel as insane with all these toedscools and gastlys to check it or threaten it, while it gets trapped by diglett and gothita (ik it can tera as well, im just saying its no a+ material). obviously spore is broken and its bulky enough to be a rank good.
a/a+ rank. while i dont think its broken, mainly because i think cm sets are bad and i have yet to see a game where they win, this is a really good mon even if it only traps one mon and dies. it also gives you speed control if scarf, allowing you to trap terad gastly or wingull, for example, and trick scarf onto a passive mon like mare and foong
this mon is hot trash id unrank it LOLit does nothing that other mons cant do imo
good gastly check, good foong check when somethings asleep, can even win w nasty plot and it abuses toed if tera grass. b+/a- in my eyes.
insane mon, why isnt it higher? it sees usage in wl as well. good breaker, insane speed tier that allows it to win matchups it shouldnt and always be useful. b+/a- bc its too tera dependent.
b rank, its a good mon w defensive utility and can even break. its weak to rocks and needs tera to utilize its full potential tho, and it doesnt hit that hard.
i get this being unranked in girafarig meta but come on this mon is a- level of threatening at least. 19 speed with knock off is already amazing, and having unresisted stabs is just cherry on top. its frail as shit tho, so i think a- is fine, but it gives you a ton of utility off of that 19 speed alone.
i might get clowned with this, but this mons very threatening. it of course needs set up to work, and tera helps it a lot, but sometimes you just cant stop it. its b-/b in my eyes tho, not a reliable mon or at least not one that fits many teams. its a wisp gastly check tho which is huge
i think this mon is at least as good as quaxly, if not better. it gives you incredible utility between its bulk, poisons and absortion of tspikes. it can tera ghost to become immortal and escape cm goth shenanigans which are bad regardless but is what holds it back kinda. i dont think bray is as relevant as it was, if it ever was a rank to begin with. it doesnt see as much usage in wl as its rank would suggest, and its not easy to fit onto a team with just how good diglett and toedscool are, which are by far its main competition. also it doesnt fare well vs top 2 mons gastly and toed. mons insane rn, easy a rank if not a+. to b+ with its fellow rain mons, it makes absolutely no sense to have them separately. you dont use buizel without shroodle lol to a. at first i thought itd be an a+ mon, but it doesnt feel as insane with all these toedscools and gastlys to check it or threaten it, while it gets trapped by diglett and gothita (ik it can tera as well, im just saying its no a+ material). obviously spore is broken and its bulky enough to be a rank good. a/a+ rank. while i dont think its broken, mainly because i think cm sets are bad and i have yet to see a game where they win, this is a really good mon even if it only traps one mon and dies. it also gives you speed control if scarf, allowing you to trap terad gastly or wingull, for example, and trick scarf onto a passive mon like mare and foong this mon is hot trash id unrank it LOLit does nothing that other mons cant do imo good gastly check, good foong check when somethings asleep, can even win w nasty plot and it abuses toed if tera grass. b+/a- in my eyes. insane mon, why isnt it higher? it sees usage in wl as well. good breaker, insane speed tier that allows it to win matchups it shouldnt and always be useful. b+/a- bc its too tera dependent. b rank, its a good mon w defensive utility and can even break. its weak to rocks and needs tera to utilize its full potential tho, and it doesnt hit that hard. i get this being unranked in girafarig meta but come on this mon is a- level of threatening at least. 19 speed with knock off is already amazing, and having unresisted stabs is just cherry on top. its frail as shit tho, so i think a- is fine, but it gives you a ton of utility off of that 19 speed alone. i might get clowned with this, but this mons very threatening. it of course needs set up to work, and tera helps it a lot, but sometimes you just cant stop it. its b-/b in my eyes tho, not a reliable mon or at least not one that fits many teams. its a wisp gastly check tho which is huge
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Just wondering;
Where is scorbunny placed?
my guess is b+ or a- maybe a
Where is scorbunny placed?
my guess is b+ or a- maybe a
Probably C-D tier at best. Scorbunny dies very quickly in practice, and it requires a lot of prediction to be effective. It's not seen in high-level play for good reason.
Now that Gastly is out, I feel like Bramblin is more viable. It is a spinner that blocks spin. Knock Off is fairly rare. It's ability makes it a switch in to Hurricane and Tailwind so no fear of Wattrell etc. Toedscool is popular ans rightfully so but I liked using Bramblin with Strength Sap. (Semi-reliable recovery but in LC it's good enough with a lot of physicial attackers.)
you should probably also take into account the immediate rise of hisui-zorua, an, arguably more dangerous gastly with similar speed and a better typing in normal/ghost, and the prominence of crabrawler as the premium fighter running ice punch to deal with toedscool anyway.
Since the VR is so out of date, I won't bother publishing changes. I'll just state my list, and then explain some of the decisions people took issue with:
S TIER: Diglett
A+ TIER: Toedscool, Mareanie, Pawniard, Zorua-H
A TIER: Surskit, Larvesta, Wattrel, Wingull, Crabrawler
A- TIER: Glimmet, Quaxly, Voltorb, Psyduck, Drifloon
B+ TIER: Magnemite, Mudbray, Shroodle, Buizel, Zorua, Greavard
B TIER: Deerling, Nymble, Shellder, Foongus, Gothita, Numel
B- TIER: Mankey, Chewtle, Meowth, Shellos, Tinkatink, Stunky, Impidimp
Diglett: Most overcentralizing mon in the meta, full stop. The LO variant is able to trap and OHKO a variety of defensive mons such as Pawniard, Mareanie, and Glimmet with ease, forcing defensive teras like nothing else in the tier, and difficult to counter-trap due to sucker punch killing scarf gothita from full and tera flying to escape... other Diglett. Not only that, Tera Ice and Rock Blast variants mean that nothing is a reliable check to diglett, save for choice scarfers and mudbray. There are also three other items to use (eviolite, focus sash, and air balloon) if you're not as interested in winning. Did I mention it also gets stealth rock?
Mareanie:The very fact that trappers such as Diglett and Gothita remain relevant is a testament to mareanie's utility. Between surf, sludge bomb, ice beam, toxic spikes, and haze, mareanie can be invaluable to nearly any team in walling the physically offensive mons that dominate the tier, such as crabrawler and swords dance pawniard. Its excellent matchup against glimmet and love/hate relationship with toedscool is also not to be underestimated. Diglett and Gothita are thorns in its side, to be sure, but tera water can remedy the weaknesses of the poison type while also giving it more of an offensive punch.
Larvesta: My love for the Blitzin' Bug is well known. Larvesta is undoubtedly the best choice scarfer in the tier, with an opportunity to mortally wound the opponent almost every time it comes in. STAB flare blitz coming off its excellent attack stat is one of the strongest attacks in the tier, and it only becomes stronger with tera fire. U-turn allows it to make a mockery of its checks by providing a free switch to its partners in crime, and it has a number of other moves to break through its checks (wild charge and zen headbutt) and valuable utility in a fast will-o-wisp. It also has an eviolite variant.
Psyduck:The duck, in my opinion, is the saving grace of rain. The only one of the trio actually able to break through rain counters, it is capable of menacing foongus and mareanie with a +2 ice beam, psychic or tera blast electric, while tera grass protects it from being revenge killed by diglett once the magic goes away, as well as allowing it to set up on toedscool with ease. There's also the fact that +2 surf is just really, really strong.
Numel & Stunky: I do not have strong opinions on these two. They are generally underwhelming setup sweepers that share a severe diglett weakness, and while they can catch someone unawares, they aren't consistent enough to note a higher placement.
S TIER: Diglett
A+ TIER: Toedscool, Mareanie, Pawniard, Zorua-H
A TIER: Surskit, Larvesta, Wattrel, Wingull, Crabrawler
A- TIER: Glimmet, Quaxly, Voltorb, Psyduck, Drifloon
B+ TIER: Magnemite, Mudbray, Shroodle, Buizel, Zorua, Greavard
B TIER: Deerling, Nymble, Shellder, Foongus, Gothita, Numel
B- TIER: Mankey, Chewtle, Meowth, Shellos, Tinkatink, Stunky, Impidimp
Diglett: Most overcentralizing mon in the meta, full stop. The LO variant is able to trap and OHKO a variety of defensive mons such as Pawniard, Mareanie, and Glimmet with ease, forcing defensive teras like nothing else in the tier, and difficult to counter-trap due to sucker punch killing scarf gothita from full and tera flying to escape... other Diglett. Not only that, Tera Ice and Rock Blast variants mean that nothing is a reliable check to diglett, save for choice scarfers and mudbray. There are also three other items to use (eviolite, focus sash, and air balloon) if you're not as interested in winning. Did I mention it also gets stealth rock?
Mareanie:The very fact that trappers such as Diglett and Gothita remain relevant is a testament to mareanie's utility. Between surf, sludge bomb, ice beam, toxic spikes, and haze, mareanie can be invaluable to nearly any team in walling the physically offensive mons that dominate the tier, such as crabrawler and swords dance pawniard. Its excellent matchup against glimmet and love/hate relationship with toedscool is also not to be underestimated. Diglett and Gothita are thorns in its side, to be sure, but tera water can remedy the weaknesses of the poison type while also giving it more of an offensive punch.
Larvesta: My love for the Blitzin' Bug is well known. Larvesta is undoubtedly the best choice scarfer in the tier, with an opportunity to mortally wound the opponent almost every time it comes in. STAB flare blitz coming off its excellent attack stat is one of the strongest attacks in the tier, and it only becomes stronger with tera fire. U-turn allows it to make a mockery of its checks by providing a free switch to its partners in crime, and it has a number of other moves to break through its checks (wild charge and zen headbutt) and valuable utility in a fast will-o-wisp. It also has an eviolite variant.
Psyduck:The duck, in my opinion, is the saving grace of rain. The only one of the trio actually able to break through rain counters, it is capable of menacing foongus and mareanie with a +2 ice beam, psychic or tera blast electric, while tera grass protects it from being revenge killed by diglett once the magic goes away, as well as allowing it to set up on toedscool with ease. There's also the fact that +2 surf is just really, really strong.
Numel & Stunky: I do not have strong opinions on these two. They are generally underwhelming setup sweepers that share a severe diglett weakness, and while they can catch someone unawares, they aren't consistent enough to note a higher placement.