Announcement SV National Dex Suspect 17 - Child of the Moon

Bit by bit.
there are plenty of Pokémon that can get rocks if you lead diancie, by threatening OHKO T1, or by Ignoring Magic bounce.
idk if you know what I meant, You DD on the KGB that does not have much more than Supreme Overlord 1
The HO team should be offensively pressuring the opponent enough to prevent them from going up for a while. The only pokemon that ignore magic bounce are hamurott (which gets chunked so much by moonblast), mold breaker excadrill (entirely inferior to sand rush) and kleavor/smeargle (bad mons). Most likely, rocks are not going up. And by the point they WOULD go up, you probably have lost two or more mons. Diancie's whole shtick is preventing rocks while getting them up itself, its a suicide lead.
Rmoon at 30% Health still destroys you becausse it got to 30% by defeating the KGB.
You're supposed to DD on the unboosted KGB not EQ it raw m8. this is about the absolute Menace roaring is to Standard Good HO teams that look prepared to it.
Cool, and how are you doing that? You are switching in raw either on a KO (every pokemon on the team can threaten it immensly, so it has to attack immediately), or on kingambit itself. Worst case scenario, they switch in as you sucker punch. Then you iron head, and take 50% from it with iron head min and then 30% with sucker punch. If kingambit decides to SD, iron head or knock off, it straight up wins.
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 235-277 (66.9 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 123-146 (35 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And would you look at that, kingambit does in fact beat it if its +2 supreme overlord or higher, which it will probably be.
 
The HO team should be offensively pressuring the opponent enough to prevent them from going up for a while. The only pokemon that ignore magic bounce are hamurott (which gets chunked so much by moonblast), mold breaker excadrill (entirely inferior to sand rush) and kleavor/smeargle (bad mons). Most likely, rocks are not going up. And by the point they WOULD go up, you probably have lost two or more mons. Diancie's whole shtick is preventing rocks while getting them up itself, its a suicide lead.

Cool, and how are you doing that? You are switching in raw either on a KO (every pokemon on the team can threaten it immensly, so it has to attack immediately), or on kingambit itself. Worst case scenario, they switch in as you sucker punch. Then you iron head, and take 50% from it with iron head min and then 30% with sucker punch. If kingambit decides to SD, iron head or knock off, it straight up wins.
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 235-277 (66.9 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roaring Moon: 123-146 (35 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And would you look at that, kingambit does in fact beat it if its +2 supreme overlord or higher, which it will probably be.
we obviously have 2 completely different scenarios going on in our heads since you don't understand me so let's just cut it.

Roaring moon is an unhealthy Presence that benefits none and resitricts teambuilding by just existing. too fast and hard-hitting, WAY too fast and hard hitting, can pull movepool outta nowhere and Nuke your counter very very randomly. Terap doing it is fine as it's not dishing out the hardest hits. Rmoon is totally diffferent because it will destroy you and you team. very much earned its place in Uber, let it stay there
 
we obviously have 2 completely different scenarios going on in our heads since you don't understand me so let's just cut it.
What is there to understand? Like, HO's whole deal is offensively pressuring stuff. If you can't do that, then your not playing HO well. There are extremely limited ways for Roaring Moon to beat the sample HO as is, with it having to get in on kingambit that clicked a sucker punch while also making sure it hasn't already ko'd two of its members AND have rocks up. That is legit the only way for roaring moon to beat that team. And that is a very specific scenario that will basically
Roaring moon is an unhealthy Presence that benefits none and resitricts teambuilding by just existing. too fast and hard-hitting, WAY too fast and hard hitting, can pull movepool outta nowhere and Nuke your counter very very randomly.
Most of the time, no, its not nuking your counter randomly. The sets that do that are lures that aren't good against the general meta. Nobody is using firium z sets, those compromise way too many moveslots to fit them and don't even beat something like corviknight, so they are in fact bad lures.
+1 252 Atk Roaring Moon Inferno Overdrive (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 288-340 (72.1 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And again, you can stack multiple of its checks on a team (pokemon that you already want to be using btw) in order to cover every possible moveset. Mola+tusk+gambit destroys every variant, mola+tusk in fact destroys every variant besides taunt acro which is hella fake.
There is tons of counterplay to it, sometimes you may need to use multiple pokemon to cover every set, but again, these pokemon are good pokemon you should be using on teams already.
Zama+m-scizor is able to beat it, that's on another sample, with terapagos and landorus helping against it too. Ferrothorn+Lando+M-Lopunny+Dragapult on another sample deals with moon. Valiant+Landorus+M-Diancie deals with it on a bulky offense sample. Ting Lu+Moltres+Scarf Urshifu+Clefable on a hazard stack. I could go on but teams already can prepare for it well.
 
I'm not even gonna try to make reqs because I don't believe I'll succeed, but I think Roaring Moon is outright busted.

The Dragon Dance set is fun, strong, but not at all a problem whatsoever as it suffers from 4mss, and isn't hard to stop with just whirlwind, toxic, or something similar.
The real problem is the Choice Band set, specifically Paired with Yard on sun teams. This set hits FAR too hard for how fast it is, and generally ends up ripping through most balance or defensive teams like tissue paper, including breaking even relatively thick resists and flat out 2hkoing basically every defensive pokemon in the tier.
Nothing except immunities can even hope to switch into Banded Protosynthesis Outrage, and most of those immunities get blasted with EQ or just u-turned on if it predicts decently. On top of that, there's Band Speed Proto in sun, which is a whole other can of worms (I'd prefer not to have effectively 205 speed speed control with damage that rivals Mega Medicham)

In my opinion Yard and Roaring Moon cannot exist in the same tier, and one of them has to go. This should be Roaring Moon, because Yard is obviously balanced and was fine before Roaring Moon dropped due to the suspect.
 
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I'm not even gonna try to make reqs because I don't believe I'll succeed, but I think Roaring Moon is outright busted.

The Dragon Dance set is fun, strong, but not at all a problem whatsoever as it suffers from 4mss, and isn't hard to stop with just whirlwind, toxic, or something similar.
The real problem is the Choice Band set, specifically Paired with Yard on sun teams. This set hits FAR too hard for how fast it is, and generally ends up ripping through most balance or defensive teams like tissue paper, including breaking even relatively thick resists and flat out 2hkoing basically every defensive pokemon in the tier.
Nothing except immunities can even hope to switch into Banded Protosynthesis Outrage, and most of those immunities get blasted with EQ or just u-turned on if it predicts decently. On top of that, there's Band Speed Proto in sun, which is a whole other can of worms (I'd prefer not to have effectively 205 speed speed control with damage that rivals Mega Medicham)

In my opinion Yard and Roaring Moon cannot exist in the same tier, and one of them has to go. This should be Roaring Moon, because Yard is obviouly balanced and was fine before Roaring Moon dropped due to the suspect.
My main issue with band moon is how it just doesn't really work with yard. Yard's sun is definitely nice for it but it's hard to pivot in moon safely, since other common yard partners like bolt and tusk are significantly bulkier than moon is, and often have either notable resistances (electric/rock/water) or useful immunities that actually pair well with yard's typing. It's definitely a threat but stuff like mola that can toxic stall you out or the fact that iron valiant geniunely just fucking switches into this guy even with prot make it a hard sell. This isn't even counting the fact that you only get 4 turns of sun with yard unless you sac it, and its crippling rocks weakness means that at most you're probably getting ~5 turns of actually clicking with the guy in sun. I feel like it's too much commitment in the builder to justify. Also running atk prot moon feels REALLY dogshit, especially on band since you're stuffed by some common pokemon like ogerpon, the latis, mdia etc. While yeah you get big numbers vs lando with outrage, you're going to be letting in the opponent's fairy for free which feels terrible, especially with how momentum-hungry yard doubles are to begin with.

boots moon is a chill guy though, I'm a fan
 
Mega kangaskhan can't break Dengo or Dozo or Iron Hands or Buzzwole yet it's the brokenest mon in existence
mega kang breaks dengo with power up punch pre mega into sucker punch/earthquake due to scrappy, breaks dozo with seismic toss and also two shots max hp buzzwole after rocks with seistoss along with nearly two shotting iron hands as well, it can easily break these mons so thats not a great example
 
My main issue with band moon is how it just doesn't really work with yard. Yard's sun is definitely nice for it but it's hard to pivot in moon safely, since other common yard partners like bolt and tusk are significantly bulkier than moon is, and often have either notable resistances (electric/rock/water) or useful immunities that actually pair well with yard's typing. It's definitely a threat but stuff like mola that can toxic stall you out or the fact that iron valiant geniunely just fucking switches into this guy even with prot make it a hard sell. This isn't even counting the fact that you only get 4 turns of sun with yard unless you sac it, and its crippling rocks weakness means that at most you're probably getting ~5 turns of actually clicking with the guy in sun. I feel like it's too much commitment in the builder to justify. Also running atk prot moon feels REALLY dogshit, especially on band since you're stuffed by some common pokemon like ogerpon, the latis, mdia etc. While yeah you get big numbers vs lando with outrage, you're going to be letting in the opponent's fairy for free which feels terrible, especially with how momentum-hungry yard doubles are to begin with.

boots moon is a chill guy though, I'm a fan
Quick nitpick but you can run Attack Proto Moon without losing your increased Speed over the 110 Speed tier. You can simply run 252 Atk / 252 Speed Jolly and still get an Attack boost. That's probably what the user you're replying to means when they're saying Band Moon hits too hard for how fast it is, cause it is still a 119 Speed demon that gets a free Attack boost in Sun to complement with Choice Band. I don't have much stake in the matter of Moon being balanced other than I feel Z-move DD with Sun support could be stupid, but such a set requires full Sun to really work.
 
Quick nitpick but you can run Attack Proto Moon without losing your increased Speed over the 110 Speed tier. You can simply run 252 Atk / 252 Speed Jolly and still get an Attack boost. That's probably what the user you're replying to means when they're saying Band Moon hits too hard for how fast it is, cause it is still a 119 Speed demon that gets a free Attack boost in Sun to complement with Choice Band. I don't have much stake in the matter of Moon being balanced other than I feel Z-move DD with Sun support could be stupid, but such a set requires full Sun to really work.
Yeah, I meant ada moon, not atk booster moon, I just wrote this a little late and got them confused in my head
 
After playing some sun with this mon I have mixed feelings.
First of all, I notice the absurd amount of sun counters on the ladder (especially the mid ladder I was in). I happened to queue into 3 mega altarias in a row, which wall most of the sun standards, and everyone else was running either rain or mdiancie. If you add the rain, ttars, dragonites and moltres, I think (mid) ladder is very over prepared for sun right now. This leads me to kinda question the drop-down suspect process, as adding a new mon which is suspected will warp the meta regardless of the mon being broken or not, and its actual power level may not be reflected that well.

Regarding moon itself, I ran a banded attack boost on sun and the few times I managed to get it in it was amazing. Its power is absurd for that speed tier and its typing is not as bad offensively as other people have said. Knock off is still knock off especially when stab boosted and from an attack and speed higher than mega mawile or kingambit. Comparing it with raging bolt’s typing, at least dark doesn’t have an immunity, and eq coverage helps a lot. If bolt works (even specs) while pretty much every team has immunities to both its stabs, moon’s dragon/dark is definitely not bad. Also, most fairy types are kinda scared to hard switch into it before they see the outrage lock, therefore using outrage to trade before you are revenge killed by a fairy is also viable. In one of my games moon casually ohkod a moltres with outrage, as it was probably running spdef to deal with zardy.

And that brings me to the main point: moon’s checks already have a lot of work to do against its common teammates. This is the case for many well built teams, but moon has the plus of simply running with away with the game due to its stupidly min maxed stats. This applies to dd moon even more than sun
 
I've gotten reqs a while ago, but I haven't had that spark that kinda just pushes me to write my feelings on this Pokemon, but here we are. Anyway, my thoughts are that Roaring Moon is good, and definetely something that every team should account for, but not broken per say. It has severe 4 moveslot syndrome, as you're pretty much walled by a bundle of already common Pokemon if you don't run the specific move for it.

Some people might say, "but kenyattaglazer54, it's almost impossibe to revenge kill! It immediately wins if you let it set up!" and to that I have 2 counter-arguments:

1. It requires good play in order to get it onto the field to set up

There's a ton of common Pokemon that can outspeed and threaten it before it even sets up, including Tapu Koko, Dragapult, and Zamazenta, all very common and very good Pokemon. Even then, Roaring Moon isn't even that bulky, and has a very detrimental typing weak to Fighting, Fairy, and to an extent, other Dragon types, and every single competitive team will have at least one, most will have 2, and it isn't uncommon to see all 3. Also, you shoudn't be letting it set up for free, and good play is almost required to get it in that position to sweep, which is something we should always reward in any competitive setting.

2. No, it is not impossible to revenge kill

There is a multitude of priority in this metagame, and again, Roaring Moon isn't that bulky. Just enough chip, which you will be getting, either through hazards or attacks taken to set up, will put Roaring Moon in range of priority like Mega Lopunny's Fake Out + Quick Attack combo, Mega Scizor's Bullet Punch, and Iron Valiant's Vaccum Wave. Hell, I've even consistently gotten into range of stuff like Raging Bolt's Thunderclap and Kingambit's Sucker Punch without much issue.

Anyway, I don't really have much opinions on this pokemon, and i'm just trying to get this out there, probably not even gonna do a grammar check or anything(not like I do those anyway), but yea, free moon.
hardcore hardcore hardcore
 
I've gotten reqs a while ago, but I haven't had that spark that kinda just pushes me to write my feelings on this Pokemon, but here we are. Anyway, my thoughts are that Roaring Moon is good, and definetely something that every team should account for, but not broken per say. It has severe 4 moveslot syndrome, as you're pretty much walled by a bundle of already common Pokemon if you don't run the specific move for it.

Some people might say, "but kenyattaglazer54, it's almost impossibe to revenge kill! It immediately wins if you let it set up!" and to that I have 2 counter-arguments:

1. It requires good play in order to get it onto the field to set up

There's a ton of common Pokemon that can outspeed and threaten it before it even sets up, including Tapu Koko, Dragapult, and Zamazenta, all very common and very good Pokemon. Even then, Roaring Moon isn't even that bulky, and has a very detrimental typing weak to Fighting, Fairy, and to an extent, other Dragon types, and every single competitive team will have at least one, most will have 2, and it isn't uncommon to see all 3. Also, you shoudn't be letting it set up for free, and good play is almost required to get it in that position to sweep, which is something we should always reward in any competitive setting.

2. No, it is not impossible to revenge kill

There is a multitude of priority in this metagame, and again, Roaring Moon isn't that bulky. Just enough chip, which you will be getting, either through hazards or attacks taken to set up, will put Roaring Moon in range of priority like Mega Lopunny's Fake Out + Quick Attack combo, Mega Scizor's Bullet Punch, and Iron Valiant's Vaccum Wave. Hell, I've even consistently gotten into range of stuff like Raging Bolt's Thunderclap and Kingambit's Sucker Punch without much issue.

Anyway, I don't really have much opinions on this pokemon, and i'm just trying to get this out there, probably not even gonna do a grammar check or anything(not like I do those anyway), but yea, free moon.
hardcore hardcore hardcore
Ival vacuum wave is 8% usage and mscizor would be better off uturning on it then clicking BP since it lives any hit if it is healthy. All of these moves are around 50% dmg, so taking that much helmet + a hit during setup probably means it already killed something. Gambit and bolt ranges are at around 25%.

And requiring good play to get in is a bit relative, considering that gambit is a pretty free setup if its not running low kick. Since gambit wants to come in and pursuit trap your glowking or lele (yeah that also exists to stop priority), getting moon in on a gambit is quite easy. And gambit is one of the top usage mons currently, so you have quite a few opportunities just from that.
 
And requiring good play to get in is a bit relative, considering that gambit is a pretty free setup if its not running low kick.

I wouldn't say that's entirely true. Iron Head still hits pretty hard. Unless you are willing to take an approximate 60%, setting up on Kingambit is gonna sting. While using Roaring Moon I found it quite difficult to set up in a lot of matches, it does require a bit of patience to find the right opportunity to go for a Dragon Dance, especially since Moon is weak to U-Turn.

Anyways for anyone interested (hopefully its a number greater than 0), I plan on writing a pretty big post on why Roaring Moon should be freed, so... stay tuned for that I guess.
 
Moon doesn't seem all that crazy to me. Banded sets with yard sound crazy on paper, but in practice, you are left with a mon that CAN deal big numbers, ultimately it gets walled by a lot of things. Banded outrage sounds...outrageous, but, in all honesty, you are locking yourself into a dragon type move for 2-3 turns in a metagame packed with fairy types. You get countered by valiant so hard its not even funny. Tusk also just eats up most hits, and if its defensive, you are just cooked. You are also pretty awkward into stuff like ferro, so yeah. Dd acro is kinda crazy, acro is still a big damage button even without tera, ig with dd acro you are somewhat better against tusk now, but still, valiant still fucks you up. Also, it doesn't really fit that well on sun in my opinion, not worth running both moon and bolt, and i sure as hell dont wanna sub out bolt for moon. So yeah, i think if moon ends up being free its just gonna be another mon with great sweeping that still has its solidified checks that can always come in against it, kinda like Kingambit
 
anyone got any moon teams I can try for this suspect
i've been spamming this sd bulu team with utility moon on ladder a lot https://pokepast.es/ca59d01eeadeece7

pult is shaky but you just have to try and deny dd as much as possible, pretty much everything can take a hit and mzor can bullet punch it to pick up a ko if it's low from tspikes

switch moon into yard that guy gets hard walled
 
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anyone got any moon teams I can try for this suspect
1000001229.jpg

https://pokepast.es/25367b55f932b464

Also why u running banded gdarm in ndubers dewd... Scarf gdarm with tera ground eq is where it's at...

Edit: STOP HAHA REACTING ME
 
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roaring knight.png


Today, it deigned to create this Suspect Test.
Reaching its long hand into the sky.
It coursed its will into its claws.
And made.


Well, it's been a little bit over a week since the Roaring Moon suspect test, and it's about time I publish my thoughts on this Pokemon. Let me start by saying that I do not think Roaring Moon is too much for National Dex to handle. On paper, it looks incredibly potent, and in many ways it is. It has egregious stats, great coverage along with utility, and the ability to set up with Dragon Dance. However, Moon does have some significant downsides that you can't just overlook. First of all, it's typing leaves it quad weak to Fairy, which is one of the most common offensive and defensive types in the game. A lotta things like Fini, Clefable, Booster Iron Valiant, and Tapu Koko will simply force an unboosted Roaring Moon out of the field, the former two can also threaten boosted Moons quite easily with their great defenses. With such an abundance of Fairies in the format, it may struggle to find setup opportunities with Dragon Dance. As if that wasn't enough, Moon's typing also leaves it weak to the most common pivot move in the game, U-Turn. Being weak to U-Turn is not a quality you want on any attacker, much less a sweeper. Good sweepers will want to force defensive Pokemon out with next to no repercussions as they try to set up. If Roaring Moon were to attempt to set up on an enemy with U-Turn, it might lose a hefty 40% of its HP or more, leaving it prone to priority or the opponent's other attackers. Against good players, a setup opportunity with Moon will be scarce with the prevalence of U-Turn. That's not even counting the fact that many other defensive Pokemon like Alomomola, Toxapex, and Slowbro also carry status moves like Paralysis, Poison, or Burn. Unfortunately for Roaring Moon, it hates all 3 of these. If Moon doesn't Dragon Dance, it'll likely be threatened by the opponent's scarfer or some other Pokemon that naturally outspeeds it, and if Moon does Dragon Dance, it risks getting statused or taking a good amount of chip from something like U-Turn. This leaves very few truly safe setup opportunities for Roaring Moon during a battle. Its status as a physical attacker leaves it constantly being menaced by Intimidate, Burns, etc., and its typing leaves it laced with terrible weaknesses that make it difficult to set up without significant trade offs.

You also get jabbed by all sorts of hazards, so that sucks.

What if you just, didn't try to set up? So what about choiced sets? I've seen a few people complain about Choiced Moon sets, but I think that they are seriously exaggerating the strength of them in practice. I believe Choice Band Roaring Moon will be the premier physical attacker in many Sun teams next to Tusk. It can strike really hard and can either get a Speed or Attack boost when under Sun, and Sun already has a disgustingly strong wallbreaker in Charizard Y. Many people say that Moon might tip Sun teams over the edge if paired with Tusk (or Terapagos), Bolt, and Charizard Y. I think that this is wrong because the fact that you're adding at least two Pokemon that are weak to fairy types into a team just invites something like Lele or Koko to wreck your team's face. Against faster teams, you may not find a chance to remove hazards to send your Sun setter out and give Moon the Speed boost needed to deal with common Fairy types like Scarf Lele or Koko. A team with Tusk, Bolt, and Moon will find it hard to switch into Fairy types in general, I'd expect someone building a Sun team to pick one of the two Paradox Dragons instead of going with both. I also think Choiced Moon on its own is extremely overblown as well. It'll likely be hitting U-Turn or Knock off a bunch of times. a U-Turn spamming attacker is not too difficult to punish by going into something like Moltres to burn it, or Ferrothorn/Garchomp to jab it for a good 12% (even more if they are holding Rocky Helmet). Banded Knock Off seems great on paper, but if the opponent can just heal off the initial hit, then you'll suffer from a sizable damage drop-off against that target as Knock Off only does extra damage if the opponent has an item. Pokemon like Corviknight, Alomomola, or Toxapex will be inconvenienced by having their item Knocked, but if it means being able to wall your next Knock Offs with ease, I'm sure they won't mind. Choiced Moon's big damage button comes in the form of Outrage, which is a huge commitment of a move. The second you lock into Outrage and take out the opponent's first Pokemon, you give them the chance to do whatever they want to you on the next turn. They might send in their Fairy type and finish you off then and now, or go to their Ferrothorn or something and Thunder Wave you, leaving you crippled for the rest of the match. Choiced Roaring Moon sets force you to get so many turns right to be truly devastating, skilled opponents may attempt to call your U-Turns, and in reality there's a chance you just get bricked by Knock Off's damage drop-off or get forced to make a trade or two with Outrage.

It also really sucks for Roaring Moon that it cannot pack all the moves it wants. If we're going with the standard Dragon Dance set then DD and Knock off are a given, but those last two move slots hold so much value. You'd want Earthquake for Kingambit, Iron Head for Valiant and Clefable, Acrobatics for Tusk & Zamazenta (You don't even OHKO Zamazenta with Proto Acro), Roost to heal, Taunt to block Toxic and T-Wave, and probably some other moves that I'm forgetting. Much like Volcarona and Iron Valiant, Roaring Moon struggles to slot all the moves it wants to have, and with reasonable scouting you can figure out a way to handle whatever combination of moves the opponent brought with them.

I want to finish by saying that I don't think Roaring Moon is bad. Far from it, in fact. If it gets unbanned, Roaring Moon will be a strong but not overwhelming presence in National Dex, serving as a Dragon Dance sweeper or a choiced attacker, both of which act as a great boon and a great foil to Sun teams. It has enough weaknesses to keep it in check, and if you position it correctly, I think you should be rewarded for your play by being able to hit the opponent really hard with whatever your Roaring Moon has up its sleeve. For these reasons I will be voting to UNBAN Roaring Moon. So, if you do think that Roaring Moon is fine to keep in NDOU, then I urge you to do the suspect test and cast your vote. Seriously, please, get requirements. I know a couple guys who are voting ban just to be chaotic trolls (if one of you guys are reading this, I hope Roaring Moon Knocks Off your Leftovers IRL).


delta rune img.jpeg
Free the Roaring Knight!
delta rune img.jpeg
 
Took me just a shade over 90 battles, which is double that it took me last suspect I participated in (I voted for Tera to stay in summer ‘23 I’m sorry I was stupid lmao), but just got reqs with this team:

https://pokepast.es/0a22ca02e06083d8

After experimenting with Z DD sets ala Pult but more coverage, Band is what stuck around. I feel like either have good, immediate answers and am leaning toward allowing it back in. Band struggles with bulked out Tusk and contact punishers, DD struggles with Unaware and either fairies or steels depending on last move, and both struggle with Zamazenta. Not easy to pivot in at all. Good players are going to make great use of Roaring Moon esp w/ Zard Y and general Sun, and it has more variety compared to standard OU, but it also has more answers that OU doesn’t.

I don’t really see anything that we don’t know about it already coming out of the woodwork and breaking the thing at this stage.
 
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wow,, my first time completing a suspect test run! as someone who spends probably too much time playing this tier, i don't think roaring moon is broken and I would like to vote Do Not Ban. (is that all i do for my vote officially? i was looking to see if i need to post it somewhere else and cant find anything)

first things, i got the suspect done in one afternoon with a w/l of 41-10, which i feel pretty good about. before my run i was only vaguely thinking about roaring moon as i laddered for fun since my balance teams I'd been experimenting with had absolutely zero trouble dealing with roaring mid. landorus, lopunny, gliscor once its poisoned, dozo, ferro, and corvi all deal with it as long as you dont play brainlessly around it and make your pivots smartly.

To get my reqs, here is the team I used: https://pokepast.es/483c543c3b9ad72f
I won't write a full team report, but basically I think torkoal is way better of a support option for sun than zard y. the yawn and wisp combo allows you to get the most free pivots into whatever you want, and you really dont need the breaking power of zard. when i fought opposing sun that relied on it for their sun setter it just gave raging bolt free entry every time. its all about keeping momentum with sun, and while zard y might not have many answers av mons that resist its hits and blissey just absolutely own it and swing the momentum way too hard. Moon was certaintly a key piece of the team but its far from my most useful breaker, venusaur and heatran have been the real game winners for me. I do think without moon sun isnt viable really, the knock off and u turn support it grants the team is absolutely necessary for stall, but like i said, its great for chipping but it never just wins automatically like venusaur or heatran can do.

anyways yeah, dont ban, just run ferro or corvi or m-scizor and you can not care abt this guy, add a lopunny and you will DEFINITELY not have to worry abt this guy. excited to participate in this community more often!
 
wow,, my first time completing a suspect test run! as someone who spends probably too much time playing this tier, i don't think roaring moon is broken and I would like to vote Do Not Ban. (is that all i do for my vote officially? i was looking to see if i need to post it somewhere else and cant find anything)

first things, i got the suspect done in one afternoon with a w/l of 41-10, which i feel pretty good about. before my run i was only vaguely thinking about roaring moon as i laddered for fun since my balance teams I'd been experimenting with had absolutely zero trouble dealing with roaring mid. landorus, lopunny, gliscor once its poisoned, dozo, ferro, and corvi all deal with it as long as you dont play brainlessly around it and make your pivots smartly.

To get my reqs, here is the team I used: https://pokepast.es/483c543c3b9ad72f
I won't write a full team report, but basically I think torkoal is way better of a support option for sun than zard y. the yawn and wisp combo allows you to get the most free pivots into whatever you want, and you really dont need the breaking power of zard. when i fought opposing sun that relied on it for their sun setter it just gave raging bolt free entry every time. its all about keeping momentum with sun, and while zard y might not have many answers av mons that resist its hits and blissey just absolutely own it and swing the momentum way too hard. Moon was certaintly a key piece of the team but its far from my most useful breaker, venusaur and heatran have been the real game winners for me. I do think without moon sun isnt viable really, the knock off and u turn support it grants the team is absolutely necessary for stall, but like i said, its great for chipping but it never just wins automatically like venusaur or heatran can do.

anyways yeah, dont ban, just run ferro or corvi or m-scizor and you can not care abt this guy, add a lopunny and you will DEFINITELY not have to worry abt this guy. excited to participate in this community more often!
I def agree that Sun can’t rely solely on Zard Y, but Moon + Tusk + Zard Y are amazing offensive and utility synergy even without the extended sun turns. Those teams (the one I built for reqs in particular) aren’t built for sun but for more flexibility. Tusk getting extra speed, def or atk and Moon getting extra speed or atk is just a really nice bonus for the core and can help you respond to things that need to be immediately dealt with, like Booster Energy mons for example that Moon can now outspeed or Tusk can outmuscle because you had Zard Y in 1-3 turns ago. Moon is also itself a good switchin to Zard Y and teams with Zard Y struggle to have a good offensive check to it that doesn’t either get eaten for breakfast by Kingambit or is the opposite of offensive, is quite passive and eats momentum.

P.S. you were one of my last games for reqs, sorry for Mola flip turning on you ad nauseam for a lame W eruption heatran too scawwy D:
 
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