Resource SV National Dex UU VR

[Iride]

Quick Post about the upcoming VR -

The council has been working hard on additional preparations for some of our most valuable resources as of late. We thereby recognize that the VR is largely misrepresentative of the tier’s current state right now, and with NDPL nearing the end of its course, as well as the recent Kartana suspect having concluded too, it is in our primary interest that the metagame continues to remain in top shape in spite of these immense shifts. For the moment, we hope to prioritize the VR so as to increase transparency before any additional course of action takes place.

---


With the release of the Teal Mask DLC. Mega Tyranitar cements itself as arguably the most perfect offensive presence around, having attained the sheer utility of Knock Off at a more heated time and at a more intense hour. Since then, we have not only continued to oversee its collation of traits excelling on offense, but on bulkier teams as well with its opportunities behind enabling other threats having increased dramatically for it as a whole. Suffice to say, we are utmost certain on insisting that Mega Tyranitar has single-handedly become the new face of the entire tier, and is bound to have a much more serious grasp on the viability of other Pokemon as things continue for it.

/ /
Another key component of the new metagame has also given rise to common balance structures supplemented by Regenerator, now aided by the overarching presence of Wish Alomomola, which gained the slow pivoting of Flip Turn this time around. This shift also notably affects the viability of other Pokemon as well, in addition to forcing various adaptations on several old ones – to such an extent, the metagame has begun to favor key Pokemon with more resilient qualities at their disposal, such as Court Change on Cinderace, which has since shifted to a bulkier variant with Will-O-Wisp to boot, and Spikes on Skarmory. Conversely, we’ve also begun to notice an increase in specific wallbreakers able to act similarly as well, such as Pivot Thundurus and Choice Band Galarian Zapdos, now able to more freely leverage their unmatched long-term power in these recurring conditions.


Other key aspects to follow include the introduction of several new breakers, namely the Ogerpon forms, but these additions are more tertiary to the general direction of the metagame if anything. Though the impact they continue to bring by themselves is notable on an individual scale.


On another note, provided the next tiering shifts aren’t set to change the meta in any significant way. I personally intend to make the following nominations:

from S -> A+
from New -> A-/A
from B+ -> A-
from C+ -> B/B+
from C+ -> B
from B+ -> B
from UR -> B-

 

[Lupla]

Supporting what Arishem also said, there are a few mons that have been content with how the meta has been progressing and others that didn't, some of the main examples are:



I already talked about Iron Hands and i'm doing it again, having notable marks in the meta once again by taking advantage of nearly everything that has been popular up until now. The buffs to M-Tyranitar, Alomomola, Ceruledge, the raise in more Cinderace, Meowscarada, Iron Moth and SpDef Hippo and then the October drops introducing the Ogerpons has been hugely benefitial in how many things it's able to check or setup in a game, the tools it has are nearly perfect for what's being popular despite things like M-Venusaur or Bulky Cinderace being ocassional annoyances. HO has also started to pick it up thanks to not only being an amazing setup sweeper on it's own but also gives them a valuable tank when facing opposing HO and sometimes being the one decider for the entire matchup.


Electrics in general have been on a good spot as the abundance of good Grass types has scared out most of them away. Zeraora is probably the best non-scarf speed control you can get and while it's power leaves something to be desired at times, it's able to do just enough to keep up when needed to alongside good coverage and utility options in Knock Off, Toxic, Grass Knot or Close Combat. Thundurus-Therian on the other hand has a great defensive typing paired with an amazing extra immunity thanks to Volt Absorb, sharing most of what Zeraora has in terms of offensive movepool and utility at the cost of the speed. You can check out replays for them in their sprites (Except Iron Hands but you'll probably find that anywhere in NDPL or smth).



Speaking of good Grasses, M-Venusaur is certainly one of those, even with how common M-Ttar is that makes Sand really good you really can't pass how good of a defensive and offensive demon this mon can be. Being a good way to force switches with Leech Seed and amazing coverage in Sludge Bomb and Earth Power alone (HP Fire, Knock Off and Giga Drain are also options) makes it really difficult to properly switch into it due to how easy it can rack up passive damage. The defensive trades are nothing to scoff at either, a valuable Grass, Water, Fairy, Electric resist that's neutral to Bug, Poison, Fire, Ice (Thanks to Thick Fat) and a good absorber of Knock Off in a meta full of Wellspring, Iron Hands, Meowscarada and other things it's able to check off bulk alone such as Aegislash, Iron Moth or Cinderace. It isn't a perfect answer to everything given how some of them have options to play around it since M-Venusaur itself suffers from lack of passive recovery and vulnerability to hazards but it's certainly one of the winners right now.



Many of these have really been given the short end of the stick with how time passed. Latios used to be an amazing wallbreaker that fell off post-tera and almost never seen after that, Slowbro having one of the toughest competitions in Alomomola who often outshines it due to pure Water being a better type in general since it lacks the crippling Bug and Dark weaknesses, Sandy Shocks is an interesting case as it's actually been doing alright yet it's probably not gonna move from where it was, enjoying the Mola meta before October and looking to be a rising star just to have that hope be destroyed in a few days due to the Ogerpons and Ursaluna dropping which nearly killed it's viability but managed to keep up thanks to Scarf sets. All of these (and probably a few others) really have been unspectacular and unless a miracle happens 2 days later as of right now it doesn't really seem like it's gonna change.



There's a few more i could argue for rises or drops altho i'm either skeptical about their exact placements or just don't have much to say about them:

From New to B
From B+ to A-
From B to A-/B+
From B to B+
From B- to B
From Unranked to C+


From A- to B+
From B+ to B/B-
From B+ to B-
whatever their rank is to Unranked

 

[Iride]

Well well... council just got back from some extremely tedious tiering and NDPL games. Thus, our long-awaited VR Update is finally here!

Rises
from A+ -> S
from A- -> A
from A- -> A
from A- -> A
from B+ -> A-
from B+ -> A+
from B+ -> A-
from B -> B+
from B -> A-
from B -> A-
from B- -> B
from B- -> B
from C+ -> B+
from C -> C+
from C -> C+


Drops
from S -> A+
from A+ -> A
from A+ -> A
from A -> A-
from A -> B-
from A- -> B+
from A- -> B+
from B+ -> B-
from B+ -> B
from B+ -> B-
from B+ -> B
from B+ -> B
from B -> B-
from B -> B-
from B -> B-
from B- -> C
from B- -> C+
from B- -> C
from B- -> C
from B- -> C+
from C+ -> C

The following Pokemon have also been unranked as a result -


Additions
from New -> C
from New -> A-
from New -> B
from New -> A-

from UR -> B-
from UR -> C+
from UR -> C+

was put up for a vote too, but the council since decided that it would be far too early to warrant giving it a proper ranking, so it will be abstained from the VR for now. We may come back to revisit this Pokemon soon, however.

---

Sticks and stones just broke my bones, and organizing this update took everything else out of me. So I will be leaving some of these nominations to questions in the meantime, ask away, but do so civilly.

 

[jawsome274]

Well well... council just got back from some extremely tedious tiering and NDPL games. Thus, our long-awaited VR Update is finally here!

Rises
from A+ -> S
from A- -> A
from A- -> A
from A- -> A
from B+ -> A-
from B+ -> A+
from B+ -> A-
from B -> B+
from B -> A-
from B -> A-
from B- -> B
from B- -> B
from C+ -> B+
from C -> C+
from C -> C+


Drops
from S -> A+
from A+ -> A
from A+ -> A
from A -> A-
from A -> B-
from A- -> B+
from A- -> B+
from B+ -> B-
from B+ -> B
from B+ -> B-
from B+ -> B
from B+ -> B
from B -> B-
from B -> B-
from B -> B-
from B- -> C
from B- -> C+
from B- -> C
from B- -> C
from B- -> C+
from C+ -> C

The following Pokemon have also been unranked as a result -


Additions
from New -> C
from New -> A-
from New -> B
from New -> A-

from UR -> B-
from UR -> C+
from UR -> C+

was put up for a vote too, but the council since decided that it would be far too early to warrant giving it a proper ranking, so it will be abstained from the VR for now. We may come back to revisit this Pokemon soon, however.

---

Sticks and stones just broke my bones, and organizing this update took everything else out of me. So I will be leaving some of these nominations to questions in the meantime, ask away, but do so civilly.

what does munki even do. like i can see a reason for each of these new additions but munki seems like extreme pursuit bait for choiced sets and none of its stabs are really spammable at all with both of them having common immunities and resists, just seems like a worse zam who already aint that great, and pivot sets ig could do stuff but we already have plenty of good pivots and while a u turn that has a 30% toxic chance does sound a little appealing i dont see how thats all too great when you have toxic immunities like aegislash and glowking - two of the best pokemon in the tier - who can come into it quite safely. even if you can deal with those, its not wowing anybody with its speed tier, it doesnt have a shit ton of common resistances, and its bulk is nothing to write home about

 

[Iride]

what does munki even do. like i can see a reason for each of these new additions but munki seems like extreme pursuit bait for choiced sets and none of its stabs are really spammable at all with both of them having common immunities and resists, just seems like a worse zam who already aint that great, and pivot sets ig could do stuff but we already have plenty of good pivots and while a u turn that has a 30% toxic chance does sound a little appealing i dont see how thats all too great when you have toxic immunities like aegislash and glowking - two of the best pokemon in the tier - who can come into it quite safely. even if you can deal with those, its not wowing anybody with its speed tier, it doesnt have a shit ton of common resistances, and its bulk is nothing to write home about

U-turn + Future Sight in conjunction with the paring alongside Pursuit Bisharp, which has been seeing more use on bulkier teams lately and can also remove both Aegislash and Galarian Slowking for it. Toxic Chain also becomes decently threatening on account of common absorbers like Tapu Fini, Iron Treads, and Mega Venusaur being threatened by coverage and / or future sights, while targetting key defensive staples like Hippowdon, which can beneficial in the long-run when stacked.

Other than that, you are mostly better off using Latios and Alakazam as purely offensive Psychics, which makes the niche minimal for now.

 

[Niadev]

While Cinderace suspect is still going on, we have decided to do a mini VR slate for the new mons and some minor shifts.

Newly Ranked:

Spoiler

Aegislash - New -> A+
Hydrapple New -> B
Pecharunt - New -> C+
Rotom-Wash - New -> A
Sinistcha - UR -> C
Ting-Lu - New -> A+
Toxapex - New -> A

Rises:

Spoiler

Mega Latios - D* -> A-
Enamorus - A- -> A
Cinderace - A+ -> S-

* - Was NDUU by usage but hadn't been ranked yet, though there was a prevailing belief following the DLC it should be ranked as you can see from this VR shift. It was only technically D rank.

Drops:

Spoiler

None!

The following Pokemon were voted on to rise from Unranked but did not receive sufficient support to be ranked, and thus remain Unranked:

Metagross
Quaquaval
Zarude

Reasonings

Mega Latios - Generally speaking, Mega Latios is regarded as superior to the Soul Dew Latios set and is just as effective as base. Its higher bulk and defensive utility allow it to effectively make use of Flip Turn, distinguishing itself from its base and Mega Latias. This lets it act more effectively as a pivot while still being very powerful in its own right, especially with post buff Luster Purge. However, it has the distinct flaw of being a mega, meaning it cannot be used simultaneously with Mega Tyranitar or Mega Venusaur, which kept it from being the same rank as base.

Pecharunt - Pecharunt synergises well with common balance staples such as Skarmory and Celesteela, checking common physical breakers that threaten them, while Parting Shot allows it to pivot in breakers and sweepers more effectively than Toxapex. An NP Z set with status + Hex was brought up for having the distinct advantage of having the bulk to actually spread status unlike Gengar.

Sinistcha - While screens falling off following the Light Clay ban have hurt it, the Calm Mind Grassium set remains effective sometimes, and it can spinblock Excadrill.

Hydrapple - Though Mega Venusaur is generally the superior grass type, Regenerator + its typing means that Hydrapple is a more effective and reliable answers to water types such as Rotom-Wash. The main sets brought up were NP + Draco Z and Assault Vest.

Toxapex - While it is by far the closest thing to a reliable Cinderace check defensively (Zen Headbutt says hi), and it can effectively handle Iron Moth as long as you don't bump into Psychic variants, it struggles to check much else reliably due to most offensive threats hitting it neutrally or worse with STABs or carrying coverage that does significant damage to it, and it only really fits on Balance, Stall or Semi Stall due to its passivity. Worse, it gets abused by common offensive threats such as Latios and its mega, Iron Hands and Excadrill. Undoubtedly an effective mon, but these factors keep it out of A+, and there was some sentiment that it should drop if Cinderace gets banned.

 

[Pubo]

im suffering to get reqs (again) so i will leave some VR takes

Rises

(A+ to S-)

Ok this might be a bit polemic but Iron Hands has everything needed to be a S- Pokemon at this moment. Bulky Offenses being filled with Ting-Lu + Celesteela + Water Resistance (usually Rotom-W / Mega Venusaur / or AV Tang because Gren is nasty) (these cores are also super weak to something Nasty, but im not sure who........ maybe they are scared of Thunders?) makes Choice Band sets super threatening, basically nothing really switch into this guy besides Buzzwole and Mega Venusaur (not hard to chip the latter considering Spikes are everywhere). Mega Latias and Latios are usually one right prediction from death since Ice Punch does a lot. For example, M-Latias is not really an amazing check because Ice Punch does 67% at least and Psyshock does no damage. Both Mega and regular Latios can't really eat Ice Punch, but they re enough threatening to KO Hands, unlike Mega Latias. I think SD sets are a bit less annoying right now since you can't really find good setup chances in a metagame with Latios, Mega Latios, Thundy, and Alakazam here and there. Buzzwole is by far the best check, but i don't think you re facing this guy as often since Meow ban. Mega Tyranitar is still the best Pokemon here, but Hands can solidify itself as the second one pretty easily, especially if Latios leaves the tier.

Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Latias-Mega: 244-288 (67.2 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Latias-Mega Psyshock vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 218-258 (46.1 - 54.6%) -- 54.3% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 284-336 (94.3 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Latios-Mega Luster Purge vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Iron Hands: 498-588 (105.5 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Buzzwole: 175-207 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Buzz can just heal / switch to any Ground . Iron Hands takes only around 10% of recoil, so it might be able to overwhelm Buzzwole eventually if you Knock Off it with something else and stack hazards.

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 211-249 (52.3 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 219-258 (52.1 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

A- to A
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
| 4 | Thundurus-Therian | 51 | 30.36% | 64.71% |


It's that time of the year for every UU tier, is Thundurus-T broken? Probably, especially after the last 2 (and maybe 3) bans buffed this guy like crazy. Cinderace and Meow (rip) were solid revenge killers and threaten it easily and well... they re gone. Latios is the second best way to deal with this guy now and Mega Latias is by far the best check. Unfortunately, Thundurus-T loves the Lu + Steela cores, and every defensive core is one Nasty Plot away from death. Nasty Plot Fightinium Z breaking power is one of the most absurd things we have currently, with only a few Pokemon being able to deal with it reliably (Mega Latias, Mega Latios, and.... SpD Clefable? ). Boots sets are also solid, but right now Thundurus Incarnate is much better since its faster than 350. Also, is kinda crazy to think that this guy have a 70% Win Rate for the first round, and 64.71% overall...

B???? to A- (or B+ but this guy is good...)

| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
| 14 | Alakazam | 18 | 10.71% | 66.67% |

NP Sash is amazing as RK or cleaner and being faster than the common 350 benchmark is super valuable. Z or Life Orb still have value to cook Tyranitar or be more threatening overall, but i usually have more sucess with Sash to be safe against Booster Moth or Greninja. Greninja dropping hurts this guy a bit.... but not if you run Sash (and hit Focus Blast).


Drops



| 19 | Victini | 12 | 7.14% | 33.33% | B+ to B (or even B- tbh)

Errrrr.... Victini? Why you should use this guy instead of Moth? Weak to Tyranitar, slower than Boost Moth, Rocks weak.... there's no reason to run this guy over Zam or Latios with both being much more effective at this moment.

| ?? | Gengar | 0 | 0.00% | 0.00% | C to UR

We don't have Gengar stats because.... well, nobody used him! Gengar is really hard to fit on teams or build around right now from my experience. Speed tie with Latios and Moth is terrible since Gengar can't take hits and if you really need a stallbreaker, just run Thundurus-T! I feel really bad for this but man, Gengar sucks until we ban Mega Tyranitar, Latios, Moth, and MAYBE this guy can shine.... a bit.

| ??2 | Munkidori | 0 | 0.00% | 0.00% | C to UR (hmmm monke )

Another Dark weak Pokemon with 0 usage? Future Sight pivot is interesting on paper, but you probably noticed that Munki sucks against the common Lu + Celesteela cores. Being weak to Mega Tyranitar AND Pursuit does not help either, and its Speed tier is far from good at this moment. I really don't know what is keeping this guy on C.

| ??3 | Cyclizar | 0 | 0.00% | 0.00% | C to UR

Mom can i get Miraidon? But son, we have Miraidon in home....

Not really the same roles but c'mon, why are you using this guy?

 

[Runo]

B+ -> A-
A quality reason to use Victini over Iron Moth is definitely its Boots pivot sets with Encore since its typing and natural bulk lets it switch into and take advantage of threats like Clefable and Mega Latias and shut them down with Encore. It's also great at captializing off common entry hazard setters such as Ting-Lu and Hippowdon by locking them into Stealth Rock and Spikes so it can essentially force switches for teammates or for its own gain by freely being able to spam its powerful V-Creates with little punishment. In addition to V-Create, it's other high power coverage option in Bolt Strike / Fusion Bolt also makes it pretty tough to switch into (far harder to switch into than Iron Moth anyways) since bulky Water-types like Slowbro and Tapu Fini don't respond to Bolt Strike well.

Will-o-Wisp variants instead of Encore can also be sweet to punish other potential switch-ins such as Mega Tyranitar and Gastrodon. Toxic has good potential to do similar things against threats like Latios as well.

Iron Moth can do kinda similar things as mentioned here but it isn't as potent of a pivot since it lacks the better typing and bulk to pull it off as well, which I think is the advantage Victini has over it despite it being slower.

-‐‐‐‐‐‐

As for the other nominations, I can definitely see where they're coming from but I think people should make an attempt to try out Munkidori at the very least before judging.

 

[Lupla]

Hello everyone! Doing another post to do a small announcement that we are gonna be working on a new Viability Rankings update!

Unfortunately this also means the Iron Hands suspect is gonna be delayed (lost the count already) but we already needed some time with Iron Boulder anyway so we're making some use out of the time we got alongside the next round of ND UU Winters including drops. That aside this post was made in order to keep everyone aware of the current situation and encourage anyone to do some VR noms, whether it'd be raises, drops or an unranked nom anything will be good to keep in mind. And with that, see you guys later

 

[coral fan]

not been playing this tier for long so take with a grain of salt

UR -> C+
stayed UU by usage for a reason, very good wincon for HO especially with Fightinium Z, with Axel it can break through Amoong/Latias/Sinsistcha and Z allows it to break through physdef guys that are neutral to fighting such as Rotom, Celesteela, Skarm and Hands. not as easy to fit as Keldeo but the SD set is an effective & common enough wincon for it to be ranked somewhere between C- and B

New -> A
very good mon that also runs SD Z-move but has alternate options in Band & Booster. has 4MSS and low immediate power so can be easily revenge killed but is definitely viable, does not require support & fits on most teams.

UR -> B+
both battle bond and protean are good, priority shirukens help vs Boulder/Aero/Drill/Speed-Moth, has coverage to hit Amoong/MVenu/Fini/Keldeo if wanted, can function as a spiker, has many different viable sets including Z moves to break, seems to be common on ladder so even if i'm wrong about its viability it should be ranked D at worst.

 

[Lupla]

Looks like we've finished voting early so...Viability Rankings update live! After probably the Cinderace meta (somewhere like that) we have been able to organize things to represent what the meta is right now.

Raises

Spoiler

From A+ to S
From A- to A
From A- to A
From B+ to A-
From B to B+
From B to B+
From B to B+
From B to B+
From B to B+
From B to B+
From B- to B
From B- to B
From B- to B
From C+ to B-
From C+ to B-
From C+ to B-
From C+ to B-
From C+ to B-
From C to C+
From D to C
From UR to C+
From UR to C
From UR to C
From New to A
From New to A
From New to C+

Drops

Spoiler

From A+ to A
From A to A-
From A to A-
From A to A-
From A to A-
From A to A-
From A- to B+
From A- to B+
From B+ to B
From B to B-
From B to B-
From B to B-
From B to B-
From B to C+
From B to C+
From B to C
From B- to C+
From B- to C+
From B- to C+
From C+ to C
From C+ to UR
From C to UR
From C to UR
From C to UR
From C to UR

What would be the next best thing after a King? A God of course! Jokes aside Iron Hands has always been one of the best pokemon in the tier for a very long time and now's the time for it to be right alongside M-Tyranitar as one of the titans of the tier. It's been said multiple times what makes it so good so i'll limit myself by saying that how amazing it is at tanking nearly anything and striking back just as hard with both Swords Dance and Choice Band sets.




These two are similar to each other in that they've been really effective at their roles yet their rises have been slow. Celesteela is one of the premier mixed walls around with it's amazing defensive typing and good stats, often being really difficult to take down as most pokemon don't like taking on a Leech Seed that Celesteela is capable of spamming endlessly for chip damage and recovery while offensive variants on HO take that defensive profile in order to setup and tear holes in the opposing team.


M-Venusaur also has similar trades but it's mostly notable in it's capability to check a lot of things at once such as Iron Hands, Iron Moth, Clefable, Tapu Fini, Rotom-Wash, Slowbro, Keldeo and more. It's so impactful that it's one of the reasons pokemon like Celesteela or Iron Moth run coverage for it as well as the recent raise of other threats like Alakazam or Gapdos. The only real drawbacks it has are in the amount of moves it wants to use and the presence of M-Tyranitar cutting through Synthesis recovery.




Gapdos was always a really good pokemon that was really only held back of greater heights due to it's average 100 speed tier when faster threats like Cinderace, Thundurus-Therian or Latios were around. Those times have changed and, while Choice Scarf is a really good speed control option that's capable of doing good damage, it's Choice Band that's taking the spotlight this time with it's amazing wallbreaking capabilities agaisn't the most common BO squads that consist of pokemon like Ting-Lu, Rotom-Wash, Celesteela, M-Venusaur or Clefable that it absolutely destroys with just one right move (and always having a fail safe in U-Turn and Knock Off).




I really have to talk about this huh...
So turns out when you completely throw out the idea of sweeping and instead you focus on wallbreaking as much as you can so that an actually good pokemon can finish the job was the better plan all along. Haxorus only has power, it lacks a lot of what makes an offensive pokemon good in this meta but it has barely enough in order fulfill it's role as a powerhouse that will force damage if given the opportunity, not as consistent as other options in this role like SD Iron Hands, DD M-Tyranitar or even Regular Tyranitar while also competing with fellow Dragon Salamence, it's found a place at the end of the day.




Greninja is our third type-changing starter who's actually having a 2nd trip in this tier after leaving post-beta, it used to be extremely overwhelming back when Drizzle was around as it was able to easily snowball out of control in a meta with not much defensive backbone and Greninja itself having a really good speed tier. Now we don't have Drizzle allowed anymore and things have settled down significantly, Greninja is still a good pokemon but it's far from the same demon it once was due to not having the power necessary to truly replicate it's snowball effect as 103 Special Attack isn't gonna cut it. Despite that it remains as a threat worth keeping in mind thanks to it's versatility (Choice Specs, Life Orb and Choice Scarf sets) and it's speed tier still being one of the best ones around, being able to threaten pokemon like Alakazam, Victini, M-Tyranitar, Aegislash and potentially being a revenge killer to Sand Rush Excadrill or Booster Energy Iron Moth is nothing to scoff at, even when it's bad matchups into bulky resists like Clefable, Tapu Fini or M-Venusaur as well as tanky neutral targets in Iron Hands and Celesteela are really common it manages to find a good place.


"As Ferropalmas fought the fraud of technology, Iron Fraud, he opened his domain. Iron Fraud shrunk back in fear and Ferropalmas said, 'Stand proud Iron Fraud, you're strong (not)'"

Leaving the Fraud Allegations aside, Iron Boulder has had a diminishing career the moment it was released, from being a potential broken that OU couldn't handle to dropping to UU and not even starting on A+. I've explained quite a bit in my post but to put it simple, Booster Energy sets aren't strong enough and are mostly relegated as decent speed control in HO while both Choice Band and Z-Crystals have proven to be the better items of choice for Boulder to find great results.


M-Swampert is unfortunately left alone, there's no drizzle and the presence of other good megas like M-Tyranitar and M-Venusaur (last one also being an amazing answer to it) means it doesn't really achieve much and it's relegated to either Rain Dance sets on HO or some form of bulky pivot on BO that's just a bulkier Regular Swampert without passive recovery.




I'll limit the drops to these two as this post is too long. M-Latias has gotten the short end of the stick this time around due to it's bad matchups into a lot of common threats (Most notably Greninja, Iron Boulder, M-Tyranitar and Aegislash) and despite it's great defensive profile, it suffers from reliably checking what it's supposed to as both Iron Hands and Iron Moth can still overwhelm it really easily (Hands isn't even that afraid of Psyshock) while agaisn't BO it really dislikes how great and prominent Ting-Lu and Celesteela are.


Latios left the tier yet Regular Latias has found itself dropping even further, this might be a bit wrong but it's also understandable given how many of the same issues that M-Latias suffers from are also applicable to Regular as well. It's able to keep up with CM sets using Z-Crystals as Latios isn't here anymore to outclass it but it has massive moveslot syndromes and it lacks the necessary power to muscle through teams the way Latios did (and needless to say, Choice Scarf sets are bad).


---

And there's that, if anyone has a question about any of these changes then you can ask in here for me or anyone else to respond. With that out of the way, have a nice day everyone!

 

[Triton_da_g.o.a.t]

I've been playing with this thing recently and i just wanna nom it cuz the fact that this thing isn't in the VR is insane.


Mienshao UR --> B-

Mien not being in the VR is a crime, it's a physical fighting type that skarm can't switch into if rocks are up, it also has the amazing ability of regenerator, being able to dish out huge amounts of damage with LO and still not worry about it's longevity, it also goes crazy in voltturn teams thanks to fake out and u-turn so even its checks can be worn down and mien could still be at high health, mien also gets access to koff which help it wear down it's checks by knocking their lefties or boots and help it conserve its longevity by knocking helmets, it's also a nice coverage move to have cuz it prevents a lot of fighting resists from switching on mien, the reason i am suggesting this buge jump from UR to B- is that mien works great most of the time and doesn't require a lot of support, and its ability to to break balance without being choice looked or wear itslef down and without being completely useless against offensive teams shouldn't be in the same place as the niches in C+ and C.

Calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 242-285 (60.8 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 200-237 (61.7 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Aegislash-Shield: 224-265 (85.8 - 101.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 112 Def Scizor: 222-263 (64.7 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Iron Moth: 187-221 (62.1 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Rotom-Wash: 177-211 (58.4 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 216-255 (51.5 - 60.8%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2136051411
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2135985518?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2136163738 (lost but mien still did great)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2132095293?p2

 

[Velcroc]

I've been playing with this thing recently and i just wanna nom it cuz the fact that this thing isn't in the VR is insane.


Mienshao UR --> B-

Mien not being in the VR is a crime, it's a physical fighting type that skarm can't switch into if rocks are up, it also has the amazing ability of regenerator, being able to dish out huge amounts of damage with LO and still not worry about its longevity, it also goes crazy in voltturn teams thanks to fake out and u-turn so even its checks can be worn down and mien could still be at high health, mien also gets access to koff which help it wear down it's checks by knocking their lefties or boots and help it conserve its longevity by knocking helmets, it's also a nice coverage move to have cuz it prevents a lot of fighting resists from switching on mien, the reason I am suggesting this buge jump from UR to B- is that mien works great most of the time and doesn't require a lot of support, and its ability to break balance without being choice looked or wear itslef down and without being completely useless against offensive teams shouldn't be in the same place as the niches in C+ and C.

I can back this nomination up with experience from tours I've played. Mienshao really like the hazard stacking direction this metagame is going and it has a pretty solid match-up into Tyrannitar which is the best mon in the tier. Mienshao's biggest checks (mainly Buzzwole and Enamorus) aren't doing too hot right now and you can always go toe-to-toe with Slowbro in the long run. The only real Mienshao answer is Clefable which has both longevity and reliable recovery to withstand repeated assaults from Mienshao.

Another ball in Mienshao's court is that Iron Hands is gone. Many people (including me) have been searching for potential candidates to replace Iron Hands as a Fighting-type breaker. The most similar replacement from testing has been Flame Orbs Conkeldurr and I know that Okidogi can potentially replace the bulkier set up variants. However, Conkeldurr is easily worn down and can't push its defensive utility as much since you're working against the clock with that mon. Okidogi lacks that same consistent pressure that even Swords Dance Iron Hands has at +0. Mienshao is a step up from these two since you have immediate offensive pressure AND longevity to boot. The defensive utility it has into Mega Tyranitar is also pretty cool since it's something the metagame needs at this point and Mienshao is significantly more splashable than things like Keldeo (which competes with Gren) and isn't restricted to revenging ttar like Gapdos is. Mega Ttar also partners well with Mienshao (much better than the other two Fighting types) and helps take out a lot of troublesome mons Shao has to deal with - making its road a lot easier.

I would argue that it is on par with the mons in B right now. If we look at the other Fighting-types Hawlucha is much more specific than Mienshao and I'm not a huge fan of Mega Heracross right now since you're pretty pigeonholed with that mon. I personally don't think it's B+ right now, but with the Open around the corner, I can see people experimenting with it.

 

[Lupla]

Keeping a bit of a streak in the middle of the new VR update, i'll be doing some noms as well!


From A- to A
Gapdos hasn't actually changed much since the last time where it gained Knock Off but after the Iron Hands ban, people started to look for more Fighting types to replicate it's success in Swords Dance and Choice Band sets. Unfortunately the Swords Dance sets aren't really something capable of recreating, the Choice Band set was something that inspired a lot of new Fighting type breakers to enter the scene in which 3 of them stand out the most, those being Buzzwole, Mienshao and Gapdos. If Scarf sets already had enough damage while providing good speed control, the Choice Band sets were outright terrifying, the damage on Banded is something insane to witness in most cases with how none of the common checks to it are able to take on it properly.

Calcs

Vs
252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Skarmory: 172-204 (51.4 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs
252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 250-295 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs
252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 164+ Def Tapu Fini: 201-237 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vs
252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Both: 106-126 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Both: 156-184 (59.7 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Both: 230-272 (70.9 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Vs
252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Rotom-Wash: 204-241 (67.3 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 120+ Def Rotom-Wash: 220-259 (72.6 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It might not be that impressive and you also risk a lot of recoil when clicking Brave Bird but you have to realize a lot of these are really important defensive pieces (some of which don't even have good recovery) and are slower than it. Nothing truly walls it and it comes down to Gapdos clicking the right move which even in the worst case scenario it's able to spam Knock Off, U-turn or even Brave Bird, most of these giving it good progress maker even on matchups where there's too much decision making for it's stabs to properly break. Scarf sets are more splashable but when Band is affordable it's absolutely worth it.


From B to B+/A-
I think the value Slowking has is probably equal to Slowbro's value (potentially even higher) as a bulky water pivot at the moment. It being Specially Bulky helps it a lot with the current trends of Washer + Ting-Lu cores as well as Pivot Iron Moth who have been outlasting things so much that even Ting-Lu itself, M-Tyranitar and M-Venusaur start to see the difference. Being able to sponge these things as well as other mons such as M-Venusaur, Alakazam or Keldeo so much more efficiently is excellent.


From B+ to A-
This one also raises for similar reasons, it lasts much more than Ting-Lu does in order to handle Iron Moth while still checking most of what it needs despite just using Specially Defensive spreads (From M-Tyranitar and Iron Boulder to Pivot Iron Moth and most Aegislash variants). Having access to Toxic also allows it to be less passive agaisn't the current BO cores where Ting-Lu's best shot is trying to constantly keep Rocks in and clicking Ruination on opposing Rotom-Wash just to switch out, this is something that Hippowdon is able to do more consistently as it actually punishes Washer. HippoSkarm cores are doing well recently thanks to the current meta making Hippowdon better.


Some quick honorable mentions (as i wasn't looking for too much detail on things but i wanted to do something before getting back to work with another work i got my hands on):

This could probably drop due to nowadays wanting more longevity focused grasses but it's still one of the best tanks around, just not as well equipped with the current enviroment being slower and more chip damage focused.

The only one i'm skeptical about is Tangrowth as i haven't used it at all but the other two are a must raise at the moment.

Amoonguss shares a lot of M-Venusaur's defensive trades but trades the Ice and Fire neutraility for the ability to run Boots and have Regenerator, allowing it to play long term much better while having some neat trades of it's own like Spore, Foul Play and Clear Smog altho significantly more passive and not being bulky in both sides.

Hydrapple doesn't lack in the damage department as not only it has access to Nasty Plot, it's able to dish out good damage by itself, acting as a potential wincon that can force some progress vs certain teams lacking Celesteela (as even Scizor doesn't appreciate Dracos and Earth Powers). It completely eats nearly all of Washer's toolkit and uses Grounds for setup.


Fighters and Grasses are known in this tier for being Balance and BO breakers, they don't really have much room for setup but they're able to force things out in order to do so (Except for Mienshao who does not need any at all).

Mienshao has been discussed enough for me to say anything, it's a fantastic offensive pivot close to what Cinderace's done in the tier despite the significantly lower speed with the bonus of Fake Out acting as a good anti lead and free chip vs offense.

H-Decidueye and Zarude are the more niche ones. The first one has a busted spammable move that no Aegislash will absorb due to Scrappy and one Swords Dance will be enough to dismantle any non-clefable check ever in conjuction with Flyinium Z. Zarude is capable of absorbing Washer's moves completely but it's weaknesses hold it back a lot (i would love to get this ranked but now's not the time for me to fully get to it, no monke time).

 

[Lupla]

Time to double post again yippieeee. In all seriousness we did end up making this early than expected so here's the new VR update! I'll be going on some of the more notable changes here.

Raises

A -> A+
A- -> A
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
B -> B+
B -> B+
B- -> A-
B- -> B
B- -> B
B- -> B
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C+ -> B-
C -> C+
C -> B-
C -> C+
UR -> C
UR -> B
UR -> C+

Drops

A+ -> A
A -> A-
A -> A-
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B+ -> B
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> UR
C+ -> UR
C+ -> UR
C+ -> UR
C -> UR

This probably isn't much of a surprise to everyone as it's not just the only good defogger around but also one of the most splashable pivots in the tier with a good amount of utility and positive matchups (Most notably Excadrill, Scizor and Gapdos) for such a long time. It may not be some defensive juggernaut but the cores it forms on Bulky Offense are great into a lot of things and it's been the main target for people in teambuilding alongside HippoSkarm.



Similar to what i said in my last post, the Iron Hands ban has made Choice Band Gapdos a lot more popular as one of the scariest wallbreakers to face given it's excellent offensive typing and coverage, leaving you only able to check this with multiple resists on a team and proper play, sure the speed isn't amazing in general but for a mon of this caliber it's more than enough. Scarf sets are also a really good option for speed control as it still offers a good source of damage and progress making that's easy to fit on teams.



As the meta changed to Pivot Moth becoming a standard set and HO teams with Booster Energy being less common, Specially Defensive Hippowdon has been making some storms of resurgence as a much more long lasting bulky Ground type compared to Ting-Lu. It's able to handle not just Pivot Moth but also Mixed Aegislash, Iron Boulder, M-Tyranitar, M-Latias, Zeraora and more while not being a completely passive rocker given it's access to not just Sandstorm chip but Toxic which makes things like M-Venusaur and especially Rotom-Wash not able to properly switch into it (even being able to tank hits if needed).

Skarmory on the other hand has always been a good partner with Hippowdon, it's just that Hippo wasn't doing so well and neither was Skarm in the more fast paced meta that was still dominated by Rotom-Wash cores. Things slowed down a lot more and some of the mons Skarmory likes facing such as Scizor, Lokix and Hippowdon itself alongside being a better physical wall with recovery compared to Celesteela has gotten it a notable boost (especially with all the new and old fighters around).



Speaking of Fighters, here's two newly ranked ones that have been promising as of right now. Life Orb Mienshao returns with the same wallbreaking capabilities it always had but with a much better matchup into all the passive damage going around from Sand and Hazards thanks to Regenerator. The current passive damage infested metagame benefits Mienshao's offensive capabilities as anything that's not Clefable will have to take repeated Close Combats, Knock Offs and U-Turns all day which they need to heal up over and over in conjuction with everything else as things like Amoonguss or Slowbro are losing Boots while facing it while things like M-Venusaur would just get overwhelmed quickly. It's not completely worthless agaisn't Offense either as it still has a decent speed tier (which outpaces things like Gapdos or M-Gardevoir) but also Fake Out as a way to get damage to faster but fragile offensive threats like Iron Moth, Scarf Gapdos, Keldeo or Zeraora.

H-Decidueye is a lot more niche but it's recent tournament play has shown it's good qualities as a Balance and BO breaker given Swords Dance, Scrappy, a broken rom hack move in Triple Arrows and the strong neutral to super effective coverage of Brave Bird or Flyinium Z Supersonic Skystrike. It has it's defensive perks as well since it's resistances to Electric, Rock and Dark, good bulk and access to Roost gives it enough opportunity to both break and stay alive long enough to overwhelm the opposition.



With pretty much only one follower (Runo) who's been trying hard in getting this ranked, it's niche comes from being a wincon with amazing bulk
capable of doing some nasty things like 1v1ing Rotom-Wash, M-Tyranitar or even M-Venusaur. It does struggle from not being a Slowbro that holds Boots in a meta filled with passive damage which limits it's use a little bit (often requring trades until the end game) but it's been successful enough to warrant a place here.



This almost got the biggest downfall the tier has seen in a while (or maybe even ever). M-Venusaur used to be a contender for A+ and one of the best picks in general that offered nearly everything a team needed but unfortunately it's flaws have gotten a lot more notable and worse. The biggest issue is the lack of passive recovery and reliance on Synthesis for recovery, a problem that wasn't such a bad thing before but due to the increase of Sand and Hazards has made it so much worse at checking stuff as it can't even keep itself alive to even do anything. This is especially bad considering that it's not just taking up your mega slot but you also have other alternatives that are much more fit in this enviroment which are Amoonguss, Hydrapple and Tangrowth who don't need to waste a turn healing thanks to Regenerator, they're able to run Boots and not take the mega slot which allows a team to run a different mega such as M-Gardevoir, M-Tyranitar or M-Gallade. It's not completely terrible by any means but things aren't looking too good for it.


Ting-Lu suffers a similar issue, it's lack of longevity has gotten really noticeable and one of the biggest changes is the rise of Boots Iron Moth who completely dances around Ting-Lu and wears it down over time with ease, the rise of Fighters like Mienshao, Keldeo and a much more prominent Gapdos doesn't help it either. It isn't a drastic drop or anything as it still holds a lot of role compression and forms a great pair with Rotom-W but people have started to look for other options nowadays.



All of these pokemon are paired together as they all went Unranked in this update. Mandibuzz is an awful defogger who really only has 2 good matchups and loses to almost the entire metagame, H-Lilligant's Hustle anticts are too unreliable and don't offer anything of worth to make it worth using over all the other options for a Fighting type (and even for those with the same type), Nihilego just gets walled by steels forever and is outclassed by Iron Moth in most cases, Sandy Shocks suffers a similar issue but it doesn't even have an important niche at checking something or anything and lastly, Haxorus wallbreaking capabilities are now obsolete due to the new influx of faster, more reliable breakers around.

 

[Runo]

My personal VR for the tier post Mega Tyranitar, will elaborate some of the more important/agreeable aspects. There is no order within ranks.
S:
S-:
-------------------------------------------------
A+:
A:
A-:
-------------------------------------------------
B+:
B:
B-:
-------------------------------------------------
C+:
C:

-> B-/C+
A big issue stall teams have in this tier is the inability to slot all of the utility it wants (Spikes, Unaware, Hazard Control, Wish Passer, volt-blocker, etc) and checks to powerful breakers (Galarian Zapdos, Aegislash, Iron Moth, Mega Gardevoir, etc) without being short on a couple of those points. Flygon shores up some of these issues with the high amount of role compression; strong Iron Moth and Aegislash check, great Defogger into Ting-Lu and Hippowdon, also a stellar volt blocker into Rotom-W and Zeraora. Can even take on Iron Boulder in a pinch. Overall Flygon just allows stall more freedoms to properly fit counterplay to more things and grant it more opportunities to slot much appreciated utility options (Skarmory is no longer forced to be stall's Defogger so it can run Spikes now for example) which ultimately makes the playstyle more consistent as a whole.

Replays where it did something significant:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2144563494?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2145206884
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2146326122?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2156325702-htnm1ck5a91wuc30loq19kupe0rov8tpw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2146465570?p2

There are more UR mons that I think should generally be ranked but I don't really have any evidence gathered to support their claims.

Other noms:
-> C+/C
-> C/UR
-> C
I think the older stalls that run a variant of these 3 are very dated. Mega Sableye kinda struggles to deal with a lot of the hazard setters of the tier, Goodra-H is still solid in theory but I think it's incredibly hard to fit realistically since the stall teams it can fit on have major holes. Quagsire is also still ok I guess but Gastrodon and Flygon are kinda taking over as the stall ground and Clefable is generally a better Unaware to begin with.

-> A+
Best speed control option we have in the tier, best wallbreaker in the tier, arguably the best Knock Off and U-Turn user in the tier. Always able to come in very easy and be a nightmare to control because of Iron Moth and other volt-turn friends enabling it. Very easy to fit on teams as well because it's insanely busted.

-> S
Clefable is a mon that basically has zero downsides when running it on a team because of Magic Guard's insane longevity and its insane movepool letting it be incredibly versatile in the tier and it will practically will never die unless its taking some insanely high powered hit or forced to be sacked to progress the game. It's one of the best Stealth Rockers in the tier because of that and can outlast or punish nearly all of the options for removal barring Excadrill. It's also the best defensive Knock Off user in the tier and the best Thunder Wave spreader in the tier and with either (or both) it can force a ton of long term progress against its own checks such as Amoonguss or even shutting down blanket wallbreakers that most teams fear such as Galarian Zapdos and Iron Boulder through it can't outright beat them. Other takes on the utility sets are really good, with Wish variants being well appreciated on bulky balance teams and other stuff like Teleport, Counter, Aromatherapy, Encore, etc can be teched onto a set and remain consistent. Calm Mind is probably one of the strongest bulky wincons in the tier because again it just cannot die easily. It also essentially can beat a lot of its checks such as Amoonguss and Aegislash since they can't touch it after a couple of boosts or if not then at the very least it can punish nearly any response to it in some way, with threats such as Iron Moth and Mega Venusaur being incredibly weary of Thunder Wave and Scizor and Excadrill hating Flamthrower. Life Orb variants of this are potentially even more annoying to deal with short term since it's capable of outright mauling counters like Celesteela and Jirachi (both are 2HKO'd by Life Orb +1 Fire Blast and they can't OHKO back / need to get lucky with flinches) while still retaining almost all of the defensive utility to a standard Calm Mind set. The Unaware sets, although only really seen on stall teams, are incredibly valuable at keeping setup sweepers like Hydreigon, opposing Clefable, and SD Aegislash at bay and can function pretty much the same as Magic Guard Clefable just without chip damage immunity.

-> S-
Insanely versatile mon right now since it no longer has any fear about a certain Pursuit Trapper removing it. Every set it runs can almost always force progress for the user to the point where even traditionally sketch options (such as Iron Head, Weakness Policy, Bulky Swords Dance) can be run relatively consistently in the hands of good players. Air Balloon for example (something that wasn't really that common in earlier metagames) is about borderline required for HO teams nowadays since the pseudo-ground immunity is super valuable to better handle stuff like Excadrill and Ting-Lu. You can also commonly see mons like Mandibuzz and Zarude get play despite not being that good because other options for checking Aegislash are iffy for a lack of a better term.

-> A
Tank sets still retain a whole lot of the defensive utility of the standard defensive sets except they hit way harder, which gives it a pretty major edge compared to Amoonguss. Mega Tyranitar leaving the tier also lets it spam Synthesis, Sludge Bomb, and Knock Off a lot more freely. Leech Seed and Knock Off are also superb progress makers to harass Celesteela and friends easier which is another benefit over Amoonguss. Hazard control generally is a lot more freed up post-Mega Tyranitar as well so the need for Boots Amoonguss is lessened.

-> A
Staple balance rocker, Ting-Lu is less applicable as it used to be on bulkier playstyles and Hippowdon can generally cover the same mons give or take so it should be ranked the same as it at the very least.

-> A
Strong check to Mega Venusaur and Iron Moth made even better due to Mega Tyranitar's rise since it can now afford to run Mystical Fire more often to deal with Celesteela, Scizor, and Aegislash. Calm Mind sets are still very potent and its far easier to fit on Bulky Offence now.

-> A-
Seen more Slowking in the past month than I have Slowbro in the past 3 months lol. Worth ranking the same at the very least imo especially with it being good at annoying Iron Moth and some other micro differences like it sitting on both Celesteela variants, being able to pivot directly in front of Rotom-W with little fear, trolling Synthesis Mega Venusaur, and shutting down Hippowdon's sand. All while still retaining a lot of Slowbro's qualities so it can still be a check to something like Excadrill or Buzzwole or even Gapdos and Mienshao in a pinch,

-> C+/B-
Webs HO generally feels really strong since its fairly difficult to remove them from the field. Especially with common anti-removal mons like Air Balloon Aegislash and Galarian Zapdos being extremely common, even more so for that playstyle.

A-
Offensive Buzzwole is very underrated breaker right now because of Gapdos and partially Mienshao's rising popularity, but it can still use its obscene bulk to bully mons like Excadrill, Zeraora, and Scizor while still being an offensive powerhouse like the other two.

A-
Magnezone in a tier where there is so much pressure to run any of Celesteela, Skarmory, and Scizor is pretty annoying in the builder. Like even if your team doesn't necessarily need those guys removed all the time, the fact that it can just break a defensive piece like that and have little to no response towards it because of Magnet Pull is dumb as fuck.

Other thoughts but not necessarily noms:

Has anyone used any of these post-Mega Tyranitar? What have they been like for you because I barely see them right now despite them "feeling" good to use.

 

[Iride]

I'd like to see Exca stay A+

The utility set remains excellent because of its outstanding mix of attributes, being especially so in a tier that continues to lack good removal. Exca remains the most effective at this by far, with rapid spin also being a major hand in facilitating the power and consistency of hazards on both offense and defense alike. Obviously, this is not the only side of things, said set also makes the most of its resistance-laid typing to act as an effective check to various mons, most notably M-Latias, Clefable (+1 Flame not 2hkoing with the right investment), and certain Aegislash sets, all while returning with hard to switch into STABs + unblockable Toxic. In addition, Exca remains as offensively threatening as ever, whether running Mold Breaker to matchup better into teams overrelying on weak Ground immunes, or Sand Rush to blitz past faster teams, Offensive Exca continues to be a very dangerous sweeper that defines one of the most important compendium checks on teams right now, greatly appreciating Lefties to more consistently leverage its utility or Z-Moves to nuke most things not named Skarmory at +2. Regardless of its set variety though, the amount of respect Exca demands is such that it comfortably deserves its place as a top threat IMO.

TLDR: Very good mon that continues to have excellent fundamentals for the meta at large. It's perfectly fine where it is.

 

[Elvira]

Vira's Personal VR rankings!

-> A.

Since Tyranitar is no longer with us, I feel like Hippo is now the certified Sand Streamer. With good bulk and access to rocks on top of eject button sets to bring in Excadrill. Just seems so. . . Good.

-> B.

Personally feel like Celesteela can do a lot more over Skarmory in terms of sets and variety. But on bulkier teams or even stall, it does become a very good Defensive wall on top of having Spikes. I just would prefer Ting-Lu for spikes you know?

-> S.

WE HAVE to accept that Iron Moth will lurk and roam around each corner of this tier. If you find yourself struggling to it, bring the pink cutie pie WITH the hat. Thank you.

-> S.

Honestly Pinky over here does the same few things as it always has. But against Hazard oppresive teams magic guard is a great ability to have along with its good bulk. Pinky Pie for NDUU President. Make it the mascot too. Thank you.

Honorable mentions that I feel should rise to NDUU for the culture are listed below. Fair warning I will not post explanations. Enjoy:
, , , , , , , .

Unfortunately i am obligated to have you arrested for the Breloom nom, thank you for your post

 

[Runo]

VR Update time!

Open + Constant Room Tours does wonders for this tier :)
Link to the voting sheet

Rises

: A+ -> S
: A+ -> S-
: A -> S-
: A -> A+
: A- -> A
: A- -> A
: A- -> A
: A- -> A
: B+ -> A-
: B+ -> A-
: B+ -> A-
: B+ -> A-
: B -> B+
: B -> B+
: B -> B+
: B -> B+
: B- -> B
: B- -> B
: B- -> B
: C+ -> B-
: C+ -> B-
: C -> C+
: UR -> C
: UR -> C
: UR -> C
: UR -> C

Drops

: A+ -> A
: A -> A-
: A- -> B+
: A- -> B+
: B+ -> B
: B+ -> B
: B+ -> B
: B -> B-
: B- -> C+
: B- -> C+
: B- -> C+
: B- -> C+
: B -> C+
: B- -> C+
: B- -> C
: C+ -> C
: C+ -> C
: C+ -> UR
: C+ -> UR
: C -> UR
: C+ -> UR
: C -> UR
: C+ -> UR
: C -> UR
: C -> UR

I've been told that Lupla will be doing the explanations so stay tuned for that if you need them. OP will be updated soon.

Oh also, don't scroll down.

 

[Lupla]

Hey everyone! Apologies for the delayed explanations, I had other stuff hitting these last 3 days and I wasn’t able to properly do this but right now (that I don’t even have my lights but I can still write this on a document) I’ll be focusing on some of the notable raises and drops, if you’d like to know about something I don’t cover here then be sure to ask in this thread or the Discord server.

Rises

: A+ -> S

: A+ -> S-

: A -> S-

: A -> A+

: A- -> A

: A- -> A

: A- -> A

: A- -> A

: B+ -> A-

: B+ -> A-

: B+ -> A-

: B+ -> A-

: B -> B+

: B -> B+

: B -> B+

: B -> B+

: B- -> B

: B- -> B

: B- -> B

: C+ -> B-

: C+ -> B-

: C -> C+

: UR -> C

: UR -> C

: UR -> C

: UR -> C

Agreed by most people of being the N1 in the tier, Clefable has nearly every tool you’d like on a team, capable of fulfilling most roles excellently and patching up any hole in a team without much problem. There isn’t anything that can be said about Clefable that’s not known by now, it’s a good wincon and utility pokemon since day 1, with the more notable thing being how important it is as one of the most splashable defensive check to Gapdos, often running Rocky Helmet to further punish it despite how valuable Leftovers is in other matchups (It still benefits it in other scenarios such as when fighting Zeraora, Mienshao and even both Scizor and Celesteela).



The 2nd best pokemon in the tier and probably a hidden broken, Aegislash stands out as one of the biggest winners from the M-Tyranitar raise, losing a really good offensive check and praying on most of the metagame which mostly consists of Fighting, Psychics and Fairy types and a few other threats that don’t exactly have the best matchup into it. Alongside Clefable it’s also one of the better Gapdos checks around but more so offensively thanks to the lack of relevant Ghost resists which aren’t safe from coverage regardless. All 3 of SubTox, Mixed and especially Swords Dance are better than ever (except for when Tera was around I guess?) with a playstyle that usually had a good matchup into it in Sand taking a massive hit in their viability.



Now for the guy that we have mentioned in the last 2 picks, the 3rd best, Gapdos is not only the best speed control option in the tier but after both the Iron Hands ban and the pace of the tier becoming slower as time went on, Choice Band became one of the best breakers around. Nothing has really changed from the last time we have bumped it up, it’s presence simply became more apparent with possibly being worthy of a suspect test nowadays despite the risks it has from often being choice locked.



The fraud is not as fraudulent! While Swords Dance sets are great (as long as you’re not using Booster Energy) the real pressure comes from how amazing Choice Band is on more Bulky Offense squads. It’s decent at breaking holes when clicking the right move and doesn’t fear being pursuit trapped as much as before, it still has an awful defensive typing but the few resistances it has (most notably Fire, Poison and Flying) give it enough opportunities to come in on things like Iron Moth or a Gapdos locked into Brave Bird, even then there’s always good pivots around to enter the field safely.



These two have previously dropped but they were on the raise regardless with the inevitable M-Tyranitar raise. M-Latias is not only free to run other coverage options on Calm Mind sets but more offensive variants were discovered (3a Recover and Offensive CM) as a replica of Latios back when it was in the tier, it’s still strong enough to pull these variants out (Having the same SpA as Iron Moth certainly helps) and while it’s always gonna have moveslot syndromes as well as hard answers in Celesteela, Aegislash, Scizor, Bisharp, Hippowdon or Clefable, these are much more manageable as you aren’t punished with trapping and some of these don’t appreciate either coverage options, chip damage or the raise in Magnezone as an amazing partner.

M-Venusaur on the other hand still has the same issues as before of being crippled in longevity compared to the other grasses (due to it not being able to carry Heavy-Duty Boots) but with the less dominant Hippowdon, slight improvement on hazard control and one less excellent Mega to compete with, it’s much more comfortable in most matches as it’s still an amazing Tank, it just doesn’t have to worry about longevity nearly as much.


With Steels becoming more important as the number of threats call for more Skarmory, Scizor, Bisharp and Celesteela usage, Magnezone just keeps getting better as the biggest enablers to all sorts of threats (Mainly M-Latias, M-Gardevoir, Clefable, Alakazam, M-Venusaur, Enamorus, Iron Boulder, etc). Sub Electrium Z sets have been more consistent as they have the power to deal with Scizor and Celesteela while making themselves better into Bisharp, this also frees up a moveslot due to not needing Volt Switch or Hidden Power Fire and allows it to run Toxic in order to cripple Ground switchins like Ting-Lu or Hippowdon.



Our new batch of newcomers to the rankings (2 of them were on the rankings but dropped to UR). You can check Flygon on Runo’s post which explains it better but it’s basically a good role compression for Stall. Mandibuzz is one of the best Aegislash checks around that also has other stuff to answer like Scizor, Excadrill, Victini and sometimes Gapdos, as long as you’re not trying to use it as a defogger then it’s not a bad choice (Altho the M-Tyranitar ban makes it more usable as one I guess? Wouldn’t recommend it anyway). Zarude is a scarfer faster than Gapdos that clicks Knock Off and U-Turn decently while also checking Rotom-Wash, Greninja, Aegislash, Iron Boulder and Alakazam. And finally Iron Leaves has a niche on Hyper Offense as one of the few options for both a Rotom-Wash and Zeraora answer that also grants a Ground Resist, it has moveslot syndromes but can be really threatning if it manages to setup.

Drops

: A+ -> A

: A -> A-

: A- -> B+

: A- -> B+

: B+ -> B

: B+ -> B

: B+ -> B

: B -> B-

: B- -> C+

: B- -> C+

: B- -> C+

: B- -> C+

: B -> C+

: B- -> C+

: B- -> C

: C+ -> C

: C+ -> C

: C+ -> UR

: C+ -> UR

: C -> UR

: C+ -> UR

: C -> UR

: C+ -> UR

: C -> UR

: C -> UR

Now for the one mon that hates M-Tyranitar leaving, Excadrill has lost it’s best partner yet on not just Sand but even on Hyper Offense teams. Base Tyranitar and Hippowdon are still around but they aren’t as effective as M-Tyranitar who was an offensive menace that enabled it really well in the past. Support variants are still good as backup answers to Clefable, M-Gardevoir, M-Latias, Pecharunt and even being able to deal with Iron Moth, Iron Boulder, some Aegislash variants and Rotom-Wash at times but Sand has taken a massive hit regardless.



It’s really hard to rank this mon, there are times where it can be insanely threatning when it doesn’t have to worry about it’s longevity (especially with Life Orb), middling power or the reliability of Hydro Pump. Stabs and Sludge Wave are able to hit nearly the entire tier but it’s always missing out on enough power to actually kill anything, a problem that becomes more apparent on neutral targets like Celesteela, Amoonguss, M-Venusaur and even fellow offensive threats or things weak to it like M-Gardevoir, Gapdos, Slowking, Clefable, Ting-Lu or Rotom-Wash are able to check it. It feels like it needs a lot of support but the payoff can definitely be worth it.



It's kinda funny how, despite having the trade of a physically bulky pivot, it pretty much only answers Excadrill and Iron Boulder (barely) due to it's weaknesses as a physical wall being more notable. It's not a good Gapdos answer due to it being Knock Off and U-Turn food and, unlike Slowking, it's not as free of a pivot into Clefable, Iron Moth, Air Slash Celesteela or Rotom-Wash due to how much damage it can take from them.



I’m gonna save everyone’s time by saying some of these lost their niches due to meta developments, competition better than it, flat out bad or raises so I’ll limit myself to the two that seem more interesting. Arctozolt who, despite benefiting from the loss of M-Tyranitar, still struggles due to not being able to get past the two best grounds in the tier (Hippowdon and Ting-Lu) which doesn’t allow it to click Bolt Beak as freely, it’s probably a bit harsh to Unrank but it depends on how things go from here (R1C3M4N do it). M-Altaria has so many tools yet none of them are actually good. It mandates so much support that it’s suffocating in building (Requires hazard control, hazard stacking AND Magnezone on top of actually building to handle the rest of the meta) and even with it, it’s not worth it.

 

[N_Mareanie]

: C+ -> UR

: C -> UR

what happened to my Gen 8 NDUU goats? we truly are living the bad timeline

 

[Niadev]

what happened to my Gen 8 NDUU goats? we truly are living the bad timeline

Offensively, MAlt is just plain not impressive anymore, and gets walled by stuff like MVenu, while stuff like Clefable and Aegi check it. Steel birds are on a ton of teams atm too, especially MVenu ones, so it can forget about ever sweeping vs the vast majority of the meta. It also lacks the raw power to get the KOs it needs, especially vs meta staples.

Defensively, it's not useless, but we have much better options for defensive fairies, like Tapu Fini and especially Clefable. Clef offers far more utility to a team than MAlt ever could, being the best rocker in the tier, potentially providing Knock support or Heal Bell support, while also, importantly, not suffering from passive damage. It also has an item slot, and checks most of the stuff we use MAlt for, except for Keldeo (who usually gets stuffed by the bulky grass that's often paired with Clefable anyways) and stuff that rose between gens like Urshi-RS. We also have better defensive megas, like MVenu, MTias, the latter of which answering the vast majority of mons that MAlt would be used for too. On top of all that, defensive sets are abused by lots more offensive mons, namely Iron Moth, Excadrill (both sand and spin SD sets), MVenu, and Protean Gren.

Defensive Salamence doesn't have any real merit, and it shares some of its flaws with defensive MAlt. Its entire thing last gen was being faster than Urshi, who has vanished into NDOU, while competently answering Keld, Volcanion, and threatening Amoonguss. Keld isn't exactly dominating the meta with all the MLatias and MVenu and Amoonguss, Volcanion isn't bad but markedly much worse, partly because MVenu doesn't care as much about Volcanion so you no longer cook fat cores as well. Defog only sort of beats Ting (Salamence does marginally more than Leftovers to Ting while Ting can Ruination lock Salamence to about half in a worst case), Hippo laughs all the way to the rocks bank, and it has to be Flamethrower to beat Skarmory. And beyond that, you only really check Zeraora (who volts anyways) and Buzzwole since nobody runs Ice Punch anymore, compared to last gen where it soft checked other things like Swampert and Cobalion with its special bulk, speed and roost. There's just no reason to ever run Defensive Salamence.

This is actually tragic lmao

0 SpA Salamence Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu: 81-96 (15.7 - 18.6%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

Offensive Salamence is just kind of bad. DWB is weak and Outrage, even if you choose to run it, is doing nothing with all these Clefs and steel birds, and between Clef and the usual steel bird, it isn't doing jack into most teams in the meta. Right now it's especially horrendous since Clef is forced into Helmet on a lot of teams to help its team not get the absolute brakes beaten off of it by CB Gapdos, so your only move that does any passable damage is now coming with a third of your health gone just so you can fail to 2HKO it at +1. MAero at the very least checks Iron Moth, has an option to hit Clef that doesn't come with beating itself to death with Clef's helmet, naturally outspeeds important offensive benchmarks, and can possibly beat Celesteela with chip or praying it's the Air Slash/Flamethrower set, and MAero has seen much better days. Unironically, I think DD Haxorus would get more mileage than DD Mence in this meta since it can PJab Clef. To think, ladder was just a few months behind on the Hax train.

 

[Danbear02]

First VR post after the Gapdos ban! Originally just wanted to nom an unranked Mon but why not discuss what the meta looks like (in my opinion) right now.

UR -> C
Alright now some of you may be wondering what Dhelmise is doing here. But if you've been watching the Nat Dex UU Summer Seasonal, you know I've been having huge success with this team: . Specs Moth is an absolute monster if you can keep Hazards off, and given how Moth forces certain Grounds on every build, Dhelmise abuses this to Spin on Ting-Lu forever as well as keep Hazards off against Skarmory, and less reliably against Hippowdon and Clefable. Now Dhelmise obviously has its flaws, like being more bothered by Burns from Rotom-W that other Grass types, hating Sand and Knock Off, being fairly frail, etc., but if placed on a team that can use its defensive profile and reliable Spinning capabilities, this thing is fantastic. It also hits really hard with an attack stat higher than Gapdos, Scizor, and Mienshao, so its not super easy to switch into its reliable Ghost+Grass STABs. While I think a conservative ranking of C is best, Dhelmise has a lot of potential to exploit the Ting-Lu/Skarmory-centric hazard metagame.

Wanna do a quick breakdown of other notable movement in the metagame.

S -> S-
While Clef is still undoubtable the Queen of the metagame, Gapdos being gone and Mienshao + Moth rising means Clef can't do its job as reliably, especially with Poison Jab being such a great option on Mienshao. The metagame is also so centralized around Clefable that checks to it like Celesteela, Moth, MVenu, and Excadrill are on every team. Despite this, the right Clef set can annoy any team.

A+ -> S-
The new best attacker. It facilitates any offensive pressure you'd want, and its defensive profile is suprisingly adept at giving it opportunities to switch in on Aegislash, Celesteela, Clefable, Buzzwole, and Scizor.

A -> A-
With Gapdos gone, Skarmory doesn't have as defined as a role, especially because Life Orb Mienshao can break through Skarmory easily, only requiring Rocks to be up. It also doesn't love handling any form of Iron Boulder, Physical Aegislash, or Zeraora. Spikes are still fantastic though, and Excadrill being the best spinner is great for it.

A -> A+
With most offensive cores consisting of a combination of Iron Moth, Mienshao, Zeraora, and Iron Boulder, Mega Venusaur is able to be really annoying, often forcing trades. It's fantastic at forcing Moth to U-turn in fear of dying in exchange for 50% on MVenu, and it reliably checks Mienshao when hazards are off. Great against Zeraora as well, allowing Grounds to preserve their Leftovers or health for Moth, and can chunk Boulder and can even rarely trade with it.


These are stand-ins for every frail attacker in the tier. With Gapdos gone, these fast threats can take advantage of speed control being more limited/harder to fit on teams. Scarf Mienshao is still around, but can be dealt with more easily than Gapdos.

B+ -> A
Mienshao is the best replacement for Gapdos and is in someways even better, being able to pretty easily break through Skarmory and Clefable which Gapdos couldn't do without sustaining heavy chip and Choice Band. Scarf Mienshao is less reliable and splashable than Gapdos, but Life Orb is a menace. 100% the biggest winner from the Gapdos ban.


There's some movement among the lower ranks of the VR, with some stuff being more explored or getting better in the wake of Gapdos leaving, and some mons getting worse (or experimentation showing their major flaws). Overall though, the tier has opened up a lot post Gapdos, with offensive play becoming easier to implement in team building without fear of being torn apart by the bird. I think defensive counterplay needs to start getting creative to adapt to new behemoths like Mienshao + Moth, and other threats that have improved like Iron Boulder, Greninja, Scizor, and Victini.

 

[Iride]

With NDPL nearly over, here's something I'd like to toss in before the next slate arrives:


Primarina: UR -> C/C+

That's right. Most importantly, I'm nomming Primarina for a rank on the VR. This may seem suspicious as it's often known as a Pokemon that is mainly relevant in limited metagames, unlike something possibly like Gen 9 NDUU. So why Primarina now you may ask? Let's get into the bulk of it.


#1 Primarina in NDUU

What is Primarina's Role?

Primarina is a Pokemon I feel is more inherently suited to aggressive compositions in general, with alright physical bulk, weirdly high SpA and SpD, middling speed, and a strong offensive movepool. This means it functions best on fast-paced teams where it is able to stand out with proficiency in finding ideal matchups and opportunities. While you may think the presence of a -shaped hole in the tier would only continue to mitigate its potential, with dedicated Grass and Electric-type counterplay on the rise. I've actually found the broader effects of recent shifts to be more beneficial than detrimental. As I should explain.

With the increased presence of bulky offense and balance cores at the forefront while opposing offense is toned down as a result of losing several of its best enablers (), I believe this allows Primarina to better shine with the proper support needed. On the other side, its Water/Fairy typing is also excellent defensively for such an offensively-minded Pokemon, giving it significant utility against the various Dragon-, Dark- and Fighting-types of the tier, as well as several Fire-, Steel-, and Psychic-types when factoring in the dynamics of the meta. Indeed, more on specific MUs below.


Sets: Which ones are cool?

Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Voice
EVs: 240 HP / 52 SpA / 160 SpD / 56 Spe
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Moonblast
- Psychic Noise

The set I tried using at first. SubCM best takes advantage of more passive teams that rely on answering Primarina defensively, turning the reliability of Knock Clefable and Slowking into a liability. The EVs also prevent Rotom-W and Zeraora from breaking Sub with Volt Switch at +1 while also being favored to do the same vs Amoonguss, allowing it to threaten more offensive teams beyond its natural typing if positioned well.

Primarina @ Custap Berry / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Psychic Noise

To go all in on busting fat (s/o Ineros). Running a more offensive set allows Primarina to serves as a dangerous midgame attacker that like the AV variant I eventually discovered, also upholds its defensive capabilities to where it can trade with more offensive threats in a pinch too. Often at times using the versatility of Custap to fix its more than middling Speed tier and grab surprise KOs in conjunction with Torrent. Now that's quite intuitive isn't it?

Primarina @ Assault Vest
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald / Surf
- Moonblast
- Flip Turn
- Psychic Noise
*176 Speed EVs are also an option

Unlike SV and even NDOU where Tera is available, I feel that AV Primarina is by far the most effective set you can run here, doubling down on its aforementioned ability to check special attackers with its typing (Greninja, Alakazam, Keldeo, Hydreigon .etc) while profiting the most from its STAB combo being threatening to most cores due to being able to run Max SpA alongside its utility with Flip Turn + PsyNoise, the latter of which also hits Amoonguss/M-Venusaur quite well for its teammates to start abusing.

252+ SpA Primarina Psychic Noise vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur-Mega: 152-180 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Primarina Psychic Noise vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Amoonguss: 214-252 (49.6 - 58.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO

As we can see, 2 of Prim's otherwise best responses can be comfortably 2HKOed and thus unable to answer it reliably, especially as the former's recovery is also denied while another teammate enters the field.

Other Calcs I feel are also worth mentioning

Calcs from prominent SpA attackers
252 SpA Enamorus Moonblast vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 94-112 (26.7 - 31.9%) -- 59.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
248+ SpA Spell Tag Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 108-127 (30.7 - 36.1%) -- 51% chance to 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Hydreigon Black Hole Eclipse (160 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 149-176 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 194-230 (55.2 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 288-342 (82 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Sludge Wave vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Primarina: 135-161 (38.4 - 45.8%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

With this set, Primarina becomes much better as an offensive stopgap to these special threats, reversing momentum into its own offensive assault or opportunity to facilitate its teammates as it forces them all out in return.

Calcs from physical attackers with a type disadvantage
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 156-185 (44.4 - 52.7%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Mienshao Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 123-144 (35 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 160-187 (45.5 - 53.2%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO
16 Atk Buzzwole Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 124-147 (35.3 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Additionally, even with Primarina's lower Defense stat holding it back, it can still take on these attackers reasonably well in a pinch, often when supported by an aggressive double or point of entry into other moves.

Why not use any other Water/Fairy?

This is something I feel I need to make abundantly clear. Yes, while there is a plethora of opposing Water/Fairy-type competition that can ideally perform Primarina's various roles at a glance. Primarina's much higher SpA stat and STAB combo supplemented by offensive tools such as Torrent and CM means none of Clefable, Tapu Fini, or the Slowtwins can fulfill the offensive role as effectively and instantaneously as Primarina does. This makes it valuable as an offensive backbone and pivot on teams that not only value its ability to soft-check threats of the same calibre with its typing, but also the offensive firepower it puts out by itself. Simply speaking, the offensive nature of Primarina more than makes up for the shorter duration of defensive utility it has against most Pokemon and gives it a distinct, valuable niche in this economy.

252+ SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 202-238 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery - Puts a significant dent into teams using these mons as their Water resist as a result, Rotom-W also cannot risk Pain Splitting on the subsequent turn as Moonblast often threatens it to where it cannot check anything else, while AV or a potential CM means you soak up Volt Switch quite easily.

252+ SpA Primarina Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Hydrapple: 404-476 (97.3 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO - Very useful calc on most teams that necessitate the offensive backbone, especially considering a lot of Hydrapples nowadays are forgoing Grass STAB entirely for Recover, also making Primarina one of the best offensive checks to one of the most threatening Pokemon around! This makes a sufficiently SpDef/Spe invested and boosted Hydrapple WITH Storm/Giga the only scenario where it can actually threaten Prim.

Obviously, a major downside besides its lack of longevity includes a long-term weakness to entry hazards, but not to the irreparable extent that Prim doesn't guarantee one or more chances of having a safety net versus these Pokemon, thus giving its teammates very crucial time to reposition without being a momentum sink itself due to being quite threatening versus most of the metagame.

That said, I think this idea of weaknesses also leads to a perfect transition -


#2 Teammates

IMO, no niche is truly complete without the sum of its parts to compensate. So here's some key things I found are worth keeping in mind when building around Primarina.

Grass-type Checks

While Primarina can sometimes threaten them, it will often be forced out by Grass-types, notably AV Tangrowth, M-Venu, and Amoonguss. This makes teammates that can abuse them crucial for situations where Primarina is checked by them at preview. The first three as examples can also form quite an effective offensive momentum core with it, helping Primarina get in safely against defensive staples it threatens such as Slowbro, Skarmory, and Skeledirge.

Speed Control
|

Primarina will often be prone to revenge killing from faster threats, including several of the aforementioned ones which may overwhelm it. Fast teammates are useful because of this, especially because Primarina can also pass over checking efforts to them by pivoting them in when needed!

Wallbreaking Teammates



Primarina may be strong offensively, but that doesn't mean it can or should be the only wallbreaker on its team. I would often suggest pairing it with other teammates that can dish out similar amounts of damage with good positioning to mount the pressure, which Primarina of course appreciates! These Pokemon also value Prim's defensive utility quite a lot in return, and can better leverage opportunities against checks such as most specially defensive tanks while backed by it. Hydrapple itself even features as a secondary offensive sponge that can help Prim and its team versus looming electrics and other physical threats with its good bulk and access to Regenerator.

Hazard Removal


Primarina's ability to check most of the threats mentioned will often be affected by hazards in question, thus making removal options crucial. Rotom-W may seem odd at first given the overlapping typing, but it actually synergises really well with Primarina, providing it with momentum and a check to SD Aegislash, Excadrill, as well as the aforementioned physical attackers, and appreciates Primarina threatening the Pokemon commonly come into it, such as Hydrapple. As for Exca and the recently uncovered Dhelmise, they're both cool as well and have some good type synergy with Prim as well.

Overall, not only are some of Primarina's traits quite good into the current meta, but also fairly easy to supplement with the diversity present atm.


#3 Replays

So I've outlined Primarina's potential for a niche in NDUU, as well as common teammates, but how does this combine together in practice?

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2217511657-j6fox18ziaeeqhk050dc74khfv5czpzpw
Stall MU. Prim manages to be quite valuable even though I end up losing, annoying Chansey by denying recovery and being strong enough to put a dent into everything else.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2218617358-41iirfvwrof9temuz3ang5t2kzu5po8pw
Forces out Zyg-10% and takes advantage of the incoming Slowking to safely setup, and would've overwhelmed SpDef Scizor in the long-term thanks to PsyNoise, though said scenario ends prematurely with SD Aegi stealing its thunder instead.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2219734281-2wmsd2483zfainnem6dsqfrjs7h4f6gpw
Takes advantage of Ting to dish out major damage, and even soaks an incoming Sludge Wave from Solchroma too prevent it from potentially sweeping. Would've had opportunities versus Mienshao had my opp not misplayed early with it too.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2221795215-lq784k85a02g107k8s26yjskwmzxpi5pw
Is likewise able to threaten Mienshao, and comfortably take on Clef with AV to stop it from sweeping with CM - Even taking advantage of its additional power with Torrent to overwhelm SpDef Celesteela to eventually clutch a win.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-791684 - W3 of NDPL.
The decisive choice to run AV Primarina as a pivot pays off quite well here, providing some solid offensive pressure and momentum despite the presence of M-Venu. More immediate chip on Celesteela also crucially helps Exca in breaking through it later.

Above are some replays showing how Primarina interacts with various teamstyles, stylistically supporting its team both offensively and defensively despite not featuring as the centerpiece in most of them. While I don't think its the flashiest or most splashable option around, I do believe the pros it brings to the table generally outweigh the cons and including it within the C ranks feels more than appropriate for now.

 

[Runo]

Hi this is my personal VR for the tier again. I will now explain some of the more important rankings:

B+ -> A
Nasty Plot Hydrapple is insanely broken in this tier with Z-moves. Made worse by the fact that Hydrapple is incapable of being worn down by anything and is way too fat for a wallbreaker. Stabs + Earth Power shreds through the entire tier and thanks to Z-moves like Z-Draco Meteor it decimates staples such as Celesteela (Apple one of the biggest factors that force it to run Air Slash and Venusaur-Mega. It's also really annoying to revenge kill because of how bulky it is so threats like Iron Boulder and Mienshao can just lose if its healthy enough (or lacking the proper coverage in Shao's case). Assault Vest is also really good and just straight up outclasses Tangrowth 2/3 times because of it's typing and offensive capabilities, while still shrugging off attacks from problem mons like Greninja and using Dragon Tail to phase out threats like Swords Dance Aegislash. Eject Pack Hydrapple is also really good on more specifc structures since it allows Hydrapple to provide instant momentum to its teammates while dealing heavy damage to Clefable and Ting-Lu. Also need to emphasize how important it is that this mon literally refuses to die easily while not being as passive as our other defensive regenerator options. It's probably one of the best Toxic absorbers in the tier because of that.

A -> A+
We have no grounds and this is one that doesn't get easily abused by Washtom or Clefable. Also just lives a fuck ton of random ass hits (+2 Iron Boulder Close Combat comes to mind) making it super reliable as a defensive mon. Also like really good at making sure HO doesn't go from a nuisance to actually broken thanks to it being arguably the only good user of Whirlwind in the tier.

A -> A+
Second best Mega Evolution in the tier and probably the best Calm Mind user. Since it gains a shit ton of value by being an Iron Moth check, it helps diversify teambuilding a hell of a lot while also giving teams a really easy to use win-con after Aegislash goes down.

A -> S
Easily the best mon in the tier. Insanely fat tank that can really live a lot of unboosted hits. Clefable and Washtom hate facing this a lot, Celesteela simply gets Knocked which is incredibly crippling. Breakers like Iron Moth and Aegislash can't pressure it enough if its healthy so they get hit back hard with a nasty Earth Power. It's also a powerful check to Greninja and Hydrapple. Sludge Bomb is also really good at punishing switch ins by Mega Latias and Mega Aerodactyl. Overall it's just way too good of a progress maker compared to the rest of the tier.

A -> A+
Life Orb + Battle Bond is broken as shitttt. Insanely difficult to actually revenge kill due to outpacing everything on top of priority as it uses its coverage to kill whatever it really wants to. Sets like Choice Specs and Z-Move variants of Battle Bond are also really easy to put on teams for easy progress against stuff like Celesteela and Rotom-Wash.

UR -> C
Short nom but it had some impressive games in NDPL where Scarf Krookodile managed to put in the work terrorizing faster frail threats like Zeraora, Aerodactyl-Mega, and Iron Boulder.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-795860?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-800561

Also agreeing with the following noms made above:

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A+ -> A
Think it's time the world hears this but Iron Moth is definitely overrated. Granted it's still a great pivot but the Booster energy sets that actually made it a menace got significantly worse and rarely do anything of value outside of assisting in breaking down Ting-Lu and friends on HO (keyword: assisting, and not beating and sweeping). It requires way too much support to actually pull off Iron Moth sweep against a good team (please to not show me a replay where the closest thing to a Moth check on the other team was a Mega Venusaur) due to walls like Ting-Lu, Mega Latias, Hippowdon being constants while more atypical threats such as Tyranitar and Mega Aerodactyl pick up steam again on top of that. Yes a key part to their rise in usage is because of Iron Moth's constrain to the builder in recent times, but that surge in counterplay when there seemingly "wasn't" resulted in those sets being way less consistent. Pivot sets are also less great but still good as I just said, it's more a matter of it demanding a lot of careful in-game play than last time (It's harder to actually want to switch into Clefable or Celesteela, fuck ton of mons are now carrying Ground coverage for it, the 350 speed tier is a lot less valuable now, etc). It cores well with Mienshao which I why Mienshao should be A rank as well, but it's really only Mienshao and like maybe Keldeo that make this very threatening and goes back to what I said about it needing way too much support to actually be an A+ mon in my eyes.

NDPL Games where Iron Moth has a poor showing

Games where it was unable to function properly due to an overtly hostile matchup:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-789855?p2
Because of the team structure, the Iron Moth was unable to actually do anything after placing a Toxic Spike down because of Tyranitar and needed for it to be removed for it to hit the field once again. Even after the fact, the existance of Mega Latias and Boots Sticky Hold Gastrodon make it insanely difficult for it to actually do work here.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-791049?p2
Again Tyranitar Sand makes this a very hard matchup for the Iron Moth player, made worse by the fact that it was forced to be sacked to Sleep turn one (presumably Rasche needed to preserve the capabilites of the other mons in order to win). It did nothing whatsoever.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-794683
R1C3M4N presumably understanding the value that his other mons had during a stall matchup immediately led with Iron Moth in order to try to put pressure on the lead Mega Sableye. Immediately it was Knocked and lost a ton of its value during that game (it's only good use now was as a Mega Sableye switch in and was incapable of breaking through Chansey + Ting-Lu as it starting hemorrhaging its Morning Suns).

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-795860?p2
Refering to Rasche's Iron Moth here: On preview it already seems like a very annoying matchup for it with Scarf Krookodile, Mega Latias and Blissey all on one team. The issue was only forced when Rasche had no choice but to sack Iron Moth in order to bring Mega Aerodactyl in safely to prevent a Mega Latias sweep. Again it couldn't do anything of value.

Games where the opposing team was prepped enough to where all that was needed was skillful play beat Iron Moth:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-790609?p2
The team structure meant that Moth couldn't easily spam Fiery Dance to become annoying. Good use of Gastrodon shut it down after that but Iron Moth's teammates made it close.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-793402?p2
Iron Moth was the only real Scizor check for this team and the team lacked any good pivots to bring it in against it so it was forced to hard-switch in essentially. Once it got Knocked then Sand + Rocks would do it in and ultimately ended not doing much of value.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2218627769-7yiprgegv34ejhrcq9u748pjg7kepjupw
The Tapu Fini and Celebi made this easier than usual but ultimately Iron Moth could not get past Mega Latias.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-789996
Saurav The Great's Iron Moth didnt have any good moves to use as a mid ground given the team structure, so every move it clicked required a high amount of risk.

Games where Iron Moth was incapable of properly entering the field (different from overtly hostile mu since if it entered the field it could've been a progress maker):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-793160?p2
As Slowbro was the only other pivot the best chance it couldve gotten was switching Celesteela but that died before Iron Moth could have a chance to hit the field. Presumably recognizing the lack of oppertunity to get on the field, Iron Moth was then used as a sleep sack for the remainder of the game.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexuu-2206843645-rxtpv6gshzieczci376hsu3my2hwceppw?p2
Iron Moth could not properly hit the field due to Specs Keldeo terrorizing the team, denying their pivots opportunity to do their job and bring Iron Moth in. This means Iron Moth essentially did nothing the whole game (It clicked U-turn once I think).

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9nationaldexuu-791667
Yeah I don't really know about this one lol, Iron Moth kills Mega Altaria (terrible mon) and then does nothing else of value throughout the game. Could it have done something more? Maybe!

There were some games that Moth won but that was only after it had to take the time to remove its checks like a normal ass mon or where the teambuilding was not good in general. Also currently experiencing some mental distress irl so apologizes if the explanations are scuffed, if there is disagreement with the game review then feel free to watch the replays for yourself.

Don't really care enough to properly nom anything else down a rank, but Clefable is not S rank anymore tbh.