Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[Ctann]

I am not staying in for more than one grass knot (unless the 2nd one is guaranteed to KO you).

It's a regenerator core. Not Torn vs. Garg 1v1.

then it hasn’t broken the garganacl? At best you switch in on a “wasted” protect turn, lol.

anytime glowking is in becomes a +1 curse or a salt cure turn.

 

[turd2]

Trick + black sludge on Glowking is my insurance policy against setup.

In reality, 90% of the time I will have hazards or some chip damage on Garg and you will be in 2HKO range of grass knot by the time Torn-T comes in.

 

[Ctann]

Trick + black sludge on Glowking is my insurance policy against setup.

In reality, 90% of the time I will have hazards or some chip damage on Garg and you will be in 2HKO range of grass knot by the time Torn-T comes in.

noted, yes trick glowking is legit, since gen8. One of my favorite Pokémon due to how it can completely flip matchups. Unfortunately once an opponent has seen it once on your team, you don’t get a “free” trick later when you MU again. They’ll plan gameflow around it.

haven’t used it too much this gen, yet..

 

[turd2]

It's not "free" - it's a backup plan. If you manage to keep hazards off the field, keep Garg completely healthy, perfectly predict my pivoting, and get Garg to +2 or greater? You're not switching out. But then you eat a trick.

Regenerator cores wall Garg.

 

[Rootb]

Trick + black sludge on Glowking is my insurance policy against setup.

In reality, 90% of the time I will have hazards or some chip damage on Garg and you will be in 2HKO range of grass knot by the time Torn-T comes in.

If trick Sludge ever gets popular again, you might actually see a resurgence of Tera-Poison Garg to counter it, too. Easily one of the funniest "fair" things you can do with Tera.

 

[turd2]

If trick Sludge ever gets popular again, you might actually see a resurgence of Tera-Poison Garg to counter it, too. Easily one of the funniest "fair" things you can do with Tera.

Tera poison would invalidate this entire discussion regardless. Torn-T can't touch a specially defensive, tera poison Garg... but Glowking still hits Garg with future sight. It's hardly a smart play if you're afraid of Glowking.

 

[Mega Breloom]

If trick Sludge ever gets popular again, you might actually see a resurgence of Tera-Poison Garg to counter it, too. Easily one of the funniest "fair" things you can do with Tera.

Tera poison is very underated overall, true, it some mons can take advantage of it more, but blocking toxic, resist fighting and Fairy on this meta is super good.

 

[Ctann]

It's not "free" - it's a backup plan. If you manage to keep hazards off the field, keep Garg completely healthy, perfectly predict my pivoting, and get Garg to +2 or greater? You're not switching out. But then you eat a trick.

Regenerator cores wall Garg.

backuo plan in this niche Garg matchup. Against 99% of teams you want to offload it to that landorus/heatran/gambit, whatever it is.

against 99% of teams it’s not a backup, it’s trying to stay relevant against your most common switchins.

chilly reception is another option now, but can be manipulated by anyone who’s planning two steps ahead of you

 

[turd2]

backuo plan in this niche Garg matchup. Against 99% of teams you want to offload it to that landorus/heatran/gambit, whatever it is.

against 99% of teams it’s not a backup, it’s trying to stay relevant against your most common switchins.

chilly reception is another option now, but can be manipulated by anyone who’s planning two steps ahead of you

This team is based around a regenerator core and pivot moves... this type of team happens to be weak to strong setup... trick is there specifically to stop setup moves from snowballing out of control.

Heatran/Gambit/whatever the right play is always to chilly reception and go to another pivot.

 

[Ctann]

Good Pokémon: make progress when they matchup well

great Pokémon: can be adapted to make progress even against some of their best switchins.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Good Pokémon: make progress when they matchup well

great Pokémon: can be adapted to make progress even against some of their best switchins.

Somebody repost that pic of Kartana and Chi-Yu please.

 

[Ctann]

Is this the image?

unsure who to give credit to, found it on google

 

[YubelVT]

hi, your resident low-ladder scrub here. I'm hesitant to give this knowledge out but... tera fairy sash hisuian-zoroark. that is all

 

[Pabloaram]

Just use Tusk, Lando reign is over. at least until dcls gives it the good moves back.

Ultra Dyna Mega Tera Coping that LandoT goes his moves back. The reason of that was because they wanted a plain field for VGC to new players that never play older game cannot get access to Toxic Lando for instance. Same as everymon

Mew is a strange case bc is never allow in VGC at being a Mythical aka only obtainable in events from the specific gen. Same as Victini or Jirachi for instance.

 

[Mega Breloom]

Ultra Dyna Mega Tera Coping that LandoT goes his moves back. The reason of that was because they wanted a plain field for VGC to new players that never play older game cannot get access to Toxic Lando for instance. Same as everymon

Mew is a strange case bc is never allow in VGC at being a Mythical aka only obtainable in events from the specific gen. Same as Victini or Jirachi for instance.

I think that at least will get knock off back, or at least will get something good to use on the 4th slot since now nothing feels consistent so far.

 

[Pabloaram]

I think that at least will get knock off back, or at least will get something good to use on the 4th slot since now nothing feels consistent so far.

Uninvested Grass Knot 2HKO Great Tusk and Donbozo
0- SpA Landorus-Therian Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 266-314 (61.2 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Landorus-Therian Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dondozo: 228-270 (45.2 - 53.5%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO

Protect is also a option.

 

[1LDK]

I think that at least will get knock off back, or at least will get something good to use on the 4th slot since now nothing feels consistent so far.

made a post about that here

you have a lot of cool fun options to mess around, who needs toxic and knock off when you can have human emotion

 

[Pabloaram]

made a post about that here

you have a lot of cool fun options to mess around, who needs toxic and knock off when you can have human emotion

You asking people to use his brain. Thats pretty amazing ngl

 

[Mega Breloom]

made a post about that here

you have a lot of cool fun options to mess around, who needs toxic and knock off when you can have human emotion

I have seen all those moves but still doesn't feel like they are worth, everytime I see a Lando on my rival team I can't help but think: "thanks for not bringing the better ground types" powercreep plus the nerfs make Lando look like a B mon.

 

[furyofyuriy]

Ultra Dyna Mega Tera Coping that LandoT goes his moves back.

While i agree that some moves like Toxic are never coming back, there may be a case for other tutor moves like Knock off in the future from prior generations. This was basically confirmed. Not to bring up datamined data, but Grassy Glide is not only coded into the game (since we know it is nerfed) and it isn't among the list of known removed moves for this gen. At the very least, we can assume the Sword and Shield Tutor moves are.

But honestly I would rather Knock off not come back via mass distribution.

 

[Pabloaram]

While i agree that some moves like Toxic are never coming back, there may be a case for other tutor moves like Knock off in the future from prior generations. This was basically confirmed. Not to bring up datamined data, but Grassy Glide is not only coded into the game (since we know it is nerfed) and it isn't among the list of known removed moves for this gen. At the very least, we can assume the Sword and Shield Tutor moves are.

But honestly I would rather Knock off not come back via mass distribution.

Toxic and Knock are free to click. SS Tutor moves probably are coming with the DLC so Chomp can be UUBL when he gain Scale Shot back lmao

 

[Ctann]

I have seen all those moves but still doesn't feel like they are worth, everytime I see a Lando on my rival team I can't help but think: "thanks for not bringing the better ground types" powercreep plus the nerfs make Lando look like a B mon.

you use lando to position your hard hitters

in eleki meta landrous was A+ tier, since it could pivot on something, then u turn out to eleki. Eleki could then volt switch on fast things that survive thunderbolt, and electro ball slow things that you want to delete

but that’s a very extreme example of positioning a hyper-threat that showcases the utility of 2 immunities, plenty of resists, and intimidate to soften physical attacks.

In the current meta, you use landorus to check something, u turn out, and safely get in your Pokémon that needs positioning support. Every now and again you smack something hard with STAB EQ or a rock attack. Can also taunt away recovery/spore attempts.

I don’t think SD is very strong in current meta.

 

[Pabloaram]

I think that the missing move that make Lando T so "bad" rn is Defog. That move in my eyes make Lando so much worst compared to Great Tusk...

If you pick Lando as your ground type who clear hazzard in your team? Double ground with Great Tusk/Iron Threads or go double Flying with Corviknight?

That is what hurt Lando the most. Yes he can still pivot wich is huge but you cannot Voltun forever under hazzards presure...

What the rest think? Is Defog the big move lost or is Knock/Toxic?

 

[Moyashi]

I have seen all those moves but still doesn't feel like they are worth, everytime I see a Lando on my rival team I can't help but think: "thanks for not bringing the better ground types" powercreep plus the nerfs make Lando look like a B mon.

???

LandoT still performs its pivoting job very well. Especially in such a spikes heavy metagame, which its immune to, this is really big. Lando is still top as a ground and a fantastic mon, simply dipping into less used options. You say powercreep but what way has it affected Lando? Maybe not S tier anymore, but callinv it a B mon is just silly when it is still so reliable defensively.

I think that the missing move that make Lando T so "bad" rn is Defog. That move in my eyes make Lando so much worst compared to Great Tusk...

If you pick Lando as your ground type who clear hazzard in your team? Double ground with Great Tusk/Iron Threads or go double Flying with Corviknight?

That is what hurt Lando the most. Yes he can still pivot wich is huge but you cannot Voltun forever under hazzards presure...

What the rest think? Is Defog the big move lost or is Knock/Toxic?

I feel like some people forget that Lando only had Defog from USUM through SWSH. It did its thing extremely well even before that and isn't really gonna stop because it lost defog.

Also double ground is not remotely weird or unusual. Neither is double flying teams.

 

[Red Raven]

the companies have always wanted to do things like this, they just couldn't because the industry was smaller and reputation mattered more.

now that the gaming industry is ginormous, and most companies are publicly traded, as long as at some point you have gotten trust in the consumer it is in your interest to, in search of short-term profit for investors, release unfinished products

indie games are normally small companies with no outside vested interests, which is why they are more consistently quality. however I'd also say that's because the indie game market has more of a survival of the fittest element to it, where the indie games you hear of had to stand out to begin with

there is more i could say but eh I'm alreadhy rambling, apologies.

Yeah that makes sense as well. I remember the time around mid 2010s when The Witcher 3, Warcraft Legion, and even ORAS came out. The good times and games were actually worth the money you spent. Now, we get unfinished shit and even pokemon is eager to join the bandwagon

No need to apologies. It's actually nice to lament the greediness of the game companies with someone else. At this point I've pretty much stopped preordering shit because you can't trust these companies anymore

But hey, at least that made possible the open sheet format which VGC players like even if there is not need for it anymore.

Still, it is pathetic that part of the reason was because they didn't implement a feature from the older games but at least no one will bring binoculars to a pokemon tournament anymore lol