Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

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Xufactor said:
I guess instead of 2 mons like Great Tusk and King Gambit, 6 mons, but they’re more like Great Tusk in terms of brokenness
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So just versatile?

That'd be sick, but also sorta sad. Itd only be 1 team comp through and through, since unless you can make your standard HO or BO bust through them all, youd always be able to swing one or two mons to deal with the threat. Theyre the six best, and theyre so variable you could run near anything with them, so why run anything else except vague, purpose built anti-meta teams.
 
mind gaming said:
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huh?


I don't rly see where recovery moves were limited in a way that affects the meta greatly except for roost on scizor/mew and pain split on rotom which most likely wouldn't have changed the meta that much anyway.
Assuming you mean reducing the pp of some recovery moves which is obv. an amazing change since we all hate playing a boring balanced meta and would much rather play a cheese/ho only meta. Me personally i hope we ban haze/whirlwind/defog/court change/toxic next to make another great step into the direction of an ideal meta.


Not my GF but you do you buddy.



Ofc. introducing a revenge killer against our beloved cheese teams would be the definition of a huge misstep. Nothing feels worse than clicking dd turn one and not even winning instantly. Also making another physical grass type viable could mess with our beloved tera water cm hatterene/enamorus so we would need to actually think when playing screens. Isn't that just the worst?



Yes scale shot garchomp for example we should also start giving random mons geomancy since a lot of the games have reached double digit turn count lately which is just a massive time waste.



Me neither but if it was dd + thousand arrows we could maybe talk about giving scald or toxic to some zu mons so that the balance tryhards don't complain.



I agree.
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They are actually great.

I hate you for showing me this and i hope you get trapped in an elevator with a monotype otto explaining you why it should get added to scl.

Just close this you don't need to read everything that gets posted here.
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Lack of distribution means huge nerf in the context of a meta. You know this you're just trying to be cringe lmao.
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Holy shit this is such a bad faith post lmao- yeah man Corv not being able to roost and add another 50 turns to every stall match means we want a pure HO meta with no status moves, gotcha bro. Didn't you get washed by stall in SPL? Wtf are you on about- "a cheese/ho only meta"? It's an offensive meta yeah, but recovery taking a small hit isn't why. Btw your team didn't get leaked, you just have ego problems.
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GF makes games as a vehicle to sell merchandise. They aren't concerned with making quality video games whatsoever. The only competitive metagame they give any attention to is VGC and even then it's far from their main concern, which is selling merch. I get liking mons, but how tf are you a Game Freak fanboy lmao?
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What mon is clicking DD that doesn't shrug off glide, Bax or Nite? Oh you mean doing 45% to the super popular (lol) dance Pult? Nice. Totally worth having glide cheese back, forsure bro. Hatt was DOA with H-rott and isn't great right now- Water Enam is funny af and barely a set, and it's 2hko by banded glide without tera anyway -screens isn't even popular right now. You got some wildly hot takes boss, ngl.
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Yeah dude give every mon geomancy. Idk what your problem is but you're coming at the wrong dude. Don't use my post as a springboard into a weird manifesto. You turned this entire thing into a raving rant about how SV is a cheese HO meta and everyone wants games to end in 5 turns. You're lucky you're a good player or that weirdly passive aggressive tantrum of a post would get flamed buddy.

SV is in a bad state right now but don't twist my words, take things in bad faith, and then top it off by being objectively wrong several times.
Not the best look. Get a grip.
 
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LoseToRU? said:
Lack of distribution means huge nerf in the context of a meta. You know this you're just trying to be cringe lmao.
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Holy shit this is such a bad faith post lmao- yeah man Corv not being able to roost and add another 50 turns to every stall match means we want a pure HO meta with no status moves, gotcha bro. Didn't you get washed by stall in SPL? Wtf are you on about- "a cheese/ho only meta"? It's an offensive meta yeah, but recovery taking a small hit isn't why. Btw your team didn't get leaked, you just have ego problems.
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GF makes games as a vehicle to sell merchandise. They aren't concerned with making quality video games whatsoever. The only competitive metagame they give any attention to is VGC and even then it's far from their main concern, which is selling merch. I get liking mons, but how tf are you a Game Freak fanboy lmao?
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What mon is clicking DD that doesn't shrug off glide, Bax or Nite? Oh you mean doing 45% to the super popular (lol) dance Pult? Nice. Totally worth having glide cheese back, forsure bro. Hatt was DOA with H-rott and isn't great right now- Water Enam is funny af and barely a set, and it's 2hko by banded glide without tera anyway -screens isn't even popular right now. You got some wildly hot takes boss, ngl.
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Yeah dude give every mon geomancy. Idk what your problem is but you're coming at the wrong dude. Don't use my post as a springboard into a weird manifesto. You turned this entire thing into a raving rant about how SV is a cheese HO meta and everyone wants games to end in 5 turns. You're lucky you're a good player or that weirdly passive aggressive tantrum of a post would get flamed buddy.

SV is in a bad state right now but don't twist my words, take things in bad faith, and then top it off by being objectively wrong several times.
Not the best look. Get a grip.
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good players don't actually have takes like that, dude. it's a blindingly obvious shitpost. sincerely holding those opinions requires a deep and fundamental misunderstanding of the game that's impossible for a competent player to achieve. it's a much worse look for you to be seething over something this clearly facetious. like, i get it, i hate the bullshit ho meta as much as the next guy, but you just seem completely mindbroken by it
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
good players don't actually have takes like that, dude. it's a blindingly obvious shitpost. sincerely holding those opinions requires a deep and fundamental misunderstanding of the game that's impossible for a competent player to achieve. it's a much worse look for you to be seething over something this clearly facetious. like, i get it, i hate the bullshit ho meta as much as the next guy, but you just seem completely mindbroken by it
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King, lmao.
That's clearly not a shitpost. Dude hates this meta like we all do and is trying to prove a point. You're getting shitposting confused with being passive aggressive. I said how much I enjoy a meta w/o Toxic and Scald everywhere, and he turned that into a rage post about how braindead this meta is compared to gen 8 and previous gens where Balance and BO was actually top tier. "Balance tryhards" is your dead giveaway. So is the ironic lamenting about how games are hitting double digit turns lol. Man's fed up with the MU fish HO meta with terrible end games, you can feel that radiating off the post.
Stuff online can be hard comprehend but that was not a post of a dude having a fun time being silly whatsoever. Some of it is funny so maybe that's why you're picking up shitpost vibes. I would have no problem with a rage post about how wildly offensive this meta is and how balance was stripped of a lot of its tools; should have used someone else though lol I'm not the one.
Only reason I'm responding and making you clear is I know you're honestly confused and I don't want you to look dumb.
 
LoseToRU? said:
King, lmao.
That's clearly not a shitpost. Dude hates this meta like we all do and is trying to prove a point. You're getting shitposting confused with being passive aggressive. I said how much I enjoy a meta w/o Toxic and Scald everywhere, and he turned that into a rage post about how braindead this meta is compared to gen 8 and previous gens where Balance and BO was actually top tier. "Balance tryhards" is your dead giveaway. So is the ironic lamenting about how games are hitting double digit turns lol. Man's fed up with the MU fish HO meta with terrible end games, you can feel that radiating off the post.
Stuff online can be hard comprehend but that was not a post of a dude having a fun time being silly whatsoever. Some of it is funny so maybe that's why you're picking up shitpost vibes. I would have no problem with a rage post about how wildly offensive this meta is and how balance was stripped of a lot of its tools; should have used someone else though lol I'm not the one.
Only reason I'm responding and making you clear is I know you're honestly confused and I don't want you to look dumb.
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It does look like a shitpost to me tbh, most of the stuff looks ironic. Still, it does come off as very passive aggressive as you said and was definitely not needed.


Anyway moving on, I really hope Bax gets tested asap, it restricts teambuilding like nothing else. What are you guys using to check this thing throughout a game, if at all?
 
LoseToRU? said:
King, lmao.
That's clearly not a shitpost. Dude hates this meta like we all do and is trying to prove a point. You're getting shitposting confused with being passive aggressive. I said how much I enjoy a meta w/o Toxic and Scald everywhere, and he turned that into a rage post about how braindead this meta is compared to gen 8 and previous gens where Balance and BO was actually top tier. "Balance tryhards" is your dead giveaway. So is the ironic lamenting about how games are hitting double digit turns lol. Man's fed up with the MU fish HO meta with terrible end games, you can feel that radiating off the post.
Stuff online can be hard comprehend but that was not a post of a dude having a fun time being silly whatsoever. Some of it is funny so maybe that's why you're picking up shitpost vibes. I would have no problem with a rage post about how wildly offensive this meta is and how balance was stripped of a lot of its tools; should have used someone else though lol I'm not the one.
Only reason I'm responding and making you clear is I know you're honestly confused and I don't want you to look dumb.
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oh fuck me i misunderstood the whole thing

this is what i get for reading forum posts at work on about 3 hours of sleep and 10 calories of food
 
Genuine question: Does the loss of recovery PP even matter that much? In most of the game's I've played, running out of recovery PP has rarely been an issue outside of defensive mirrors. The generation still has HDB + Regen mons and Toxic / Knock Cut makes it harder to break past mons like Ting-Lu imo. I don't think logevity is as big of an issue this gen.
 
Magcargo said:
Genuine question: Does the loss of recovery PP even matter that much? In most of the game's I've played, running out of recovery PP has rarely been an issue outside of defensive mirrors. The generation still has HDB + Regen mons and Toxic / Knock Cut makes it harder to break past mons like Ting-Lu imo. I don't think logevity is as big of an issue this gen.
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i agree; in my experience, it's usually balance/stall vs balance/stall matchups that really come down to these PP wars of attrition. i do think there are just enough knockers that things with longevity tend to have their boots taken off and consistently take 2-3 layers of spikes tho
 
Magcargo said:
Genuine question: Does the loss of recovery PP even matter that much? In most of the game's I've played, running out of recovery PP has rarely been an issue outside of defensive mirrors. The generation still has HDB + Regen mons and Toxic / Knock Cut makes it harder to break past mons like Ting-Lu imo.
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i've occasionally had trouble with recovery pp when i'm up against a team that puts a lot of offensive pressure on my recovering mons or a stall team when i'm also running stall, and also once when i ran up against a corviknight that was running spite instead of defog (which i probably should have expected given that it was nicknamed "pp destroyer")
 
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Magcargo said:
Genuine question: Does the loss of recovery PP even matter that much? In most of the game's I've played, running out of recovery PP has rarely been an issue outside of defensive mirrors. The generation still has HDB + Regen mons and Toxic / Knock Cut makes it harder to break past mons like Ting-Lu imo. I don't think logevity is as big of an issue this gen.
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Well, in a HO meta having only 1 or infinite PP for recovery moves isn't that problematic if still you're gonna be like 2HKO by mons like Bax, but surely as all the others said, in balanced teams isn't that great of a problems since without many mons with Knock Off (off-topic but seriously, Idk why they removed Knock Off from Weavile, ok TA for being a tutor move of the DLC, but Kn. Off I don't really understand at all) you still have your Leftovers and also HBD exist, but surely having all the recovery moves nerfed besides Wish is a really big thing
 
Magcargo said:
Genuine question: Does the loss of recovery PP even matter that much? In most of the game's I've played, running out of recovery PP has rarely been an issue outside of defensive mirrors. The generation still has HDB + Regen mons and Toxic / Knock Cut makes it harder to break past mons like Ting-Lu imo. I don't think logevity is as big of an issue this gen.
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The mons it matters for most aren't really stall mons, but bruisers that (for some reason) have access to reliable recovery. Like everyone's favorite salt rock, Garganacl.

If that thing had 16 PP on Recover, we would all be in hell.
 
Magcargo said:
Genuine question: Does the loss of recovery PP even matter that much? In most of the game's I've played, running out of recovery PP has rarely been an issue outside of defensive mirrors. The generation still has HDB + Regen mons and Toxic / Knock Cut makes it harder to break past mons like Ting-Lu imo. I don't think logevity is as big of an issue this gen.
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Other than killing hard stall, it hasn't been felt. I don't run defensive teams to have experienced the effects in that mirror, though.
 
DaddyBuzzwole said:
oh fuck me i misunderstood the whole thing

this is what i get for reading forum posts at work on about 3 hours of sleep and 10 calories of food
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You're good king. I read it right when I came into work on like and was like ok demon time. Now, as always, I regret going so hard lol.
Anyway we can all move on. Always fun to spice up the forums but I said my peace.

Magcargo said:
Genuine question: Does the loss of recovery PP even matter that much? In most of the game's I've played, running out of recovery PP has rarely been an issue outside of defensive mirrors. The generation still has HDB + Regen mons and Toxic / Knock Cut makes it harder to break past mons like Ting-Lu imo. I don't think logevity is as big of an issue this gen.
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If this meta wasn't as crazy offensive as it is then we would feel it a lot more, like if Corv only had 8 Roosts last gen things would have been different. But no, it's barely a thing right now. I kinda said that as an afterthought. The biggest QoL change was no Toxic and Scald, imo. Defog, Knock and recovery nerf I don't really have an opinion on.
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Idk if we want a new topic but Gambit seems to get more broken every day lol
What do we think about Zone for ole Gambino?
:magnezone:
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt

This set beats every Gambit, even Ghost and Fairy.
You set up ID and just win. I don't want to clog this up with calcs but yeah.
Zone either handles it late game, or trades with it mid game, or forces a tera, which can be really nice.
I've been using it on my full RU meme team on ladder that has so far hit 1600. It's a team that really needs Gambit gone.
It really puts fear into the opposing player using Gambit, because they have to be careful about tera. Since this is a pure counter, they are more afraid to tera other mons because if they do then you always take Gambo off the table.
Ik it's basically an unmon and highly outclassed by Zama but something to think about if we're gonna have to deal with this broken thing for many months to come.
I could see this being paired with Red Card Ting or something to reliably trap it.
 
Probably this was said weeks ago and I have just a bad memory, but since the DLC is going to be released in basically less than 4 days, do you think that there are some mons who can help handle or at least try to fight back some of the top threats of the Meta? Because currently in my mind without getting too much spoilers I have Conkeldurr, which I think can help to resolve some various threaths as Kingambit and Bax, and even force them to Tera, but idk if it will eventually work, and if it does, then we will have another HO mon in this meta
 
Spheal boi said:
Probably this was said weeks ago and I have just a bad memory, but since the DLC is going to be released in basically less than 4 days, do you think that there are some mons who can help handle or at least try to fight back some of the top threats of the Meta? Because currently in my mind without getting too much spoilers I have Conkeldurr, which I think can help to resolve some various threaths as Kingambit and Bax, and even force them to Tera, but idk if it will eventually work, and if it does, then we will have another HO mon in this meta
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Everyone hates Clef but it will probably bring stability to the meta. It does decently well into a lot of top mons and doesn't care about hazards either.
 
artificialdeath said:
Everyone hates Clef but it will probably bring stability to the meta. It does decently well into a lot of top mons and doesn't care about hazards either.
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And will also be a new tera abuser to boot, and can pass wishes around. Will probably help a little bit with the not very fun meta but a tera test soon after the dlc drops is definitely warranted at this point.

Also on the topic of drops from ubers, I expect Volc and maybe a shaymin-sky quicktest. (on the merit that covert cloakwill make it easier to deal with, even if it ends up going back to ubers like it probably will.) I don't expect anything else to come back until either dlc 2 or if tera gets banned
 
BolTingBlazie said:
And will also be a new tera abuser to boot, and can pass wishes around. Will probably help a little bit with the not very fun meta but a tera test soon after the dlc drops is definitely warranted at this point.

Also on the topic of drops from ubers, I expect Volc and maybe a shaymin-sky quicktest. (on the merit that covert cloakwill make it easier to deal with, even if it ends up going back to ubers like it probably will.) I don't expect anything else to come back until either dlc 2 or if tera gets banned
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Shaymin-S is never touching OU again
 
artificialdeath said:
Shaymin-S is never touching OU again
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Honestly I have doubts that it will be tested at all, but we said that with magearna and well, it got tested on the merit that powercreep would keep it in line. I could easily also see the same said for shaymin-sky by some of the council

All I am saying is as BS as shaymin-sky likely still is, there is a little bit of merit to testing it even if we all know it probably will be banned with covert cloak now existing. (Not saying it should be retested though, because I would also prefer if it wasn't retested.)
 
BolTingBlazie said:
Honestly I have doubts that it will be tested at all, but we said that with magearna and well, it got tested on the merit that powercreep would keep it in line. I could easily also see the same said for shaymin-sky by some of the council

All I am saying is as BS as shaymin-sky likely still is, there is a little bit of merit to testing it even if we all know it probably will be banned with covert cloak now existing. (Not saying it should be retested though, because I would also prefer if it wasn't retested.)
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Shaymin-Sky is still faster than the vast majority of OU and still incredibly bullshit with Serene Grace. Even though it doesn't have Earth Power anymore, the Subseed set still stomps on most of OU. Shaymin-Sky would mandate Covert Cloak usage for it to be even remotely tolerable, which would be extremely unhealthy. There are, for example, many ways to exploit Garganacl outside of Covert Cloak with Encore, Substitute, Taunt, Trick, and strong special attacks, but Shaymin-Sky would literally force every team to carry Covert Cloak, which would be extremely centralizing and unhealthy for the meta. Shaymin-Sky is just a Pokemon that is not meant to be balanced. Seriously, keep this thing away from OU.

Genesect would be a fairer test than Shaymin-Sky since it lost Shift Gear, Rock Polish and Extreme Speed, and there are more 4x resists to Bug than ever, but it might very well still be broken.
 
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BolTingBlazie said:
All I am saying is as BS as shaymin-sky likely still is, there is a little bit of merit to testing it even if we all know it probably will be banned with covert cloak now existing. (Not saying it should be retested though, because I would also prefer if it wasn't retested.)
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There is absolutely positively zero merit to testing shaymin sky in any OU metagame ever. Covert cloak is a junk item and is not remotely enough to even consider it even a tiny bit.
 

artificialdeath said:
Everyone hates Clef but it will probably bring stability to the meta. It does decently well into a lot of top mons and doesn't care about hazards either.
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Clef looks like it's going to be ass unless it gets moves that are uncomfirmed.

Moonlight as only recovery will be super bad, any matchup vs glowking or ninetales HO would make Clefable a dead slot due to only healing 25% and Clefable has mediocre bulk for a defensive mom to begin with. Losing Knock Off is also huge, losing clef a ton of utility.

Clef also really hates tera, it's bulk is at the point where most top offensive threats can tera and easily ko it, that is if they even need to tera against the 25% recovery mon.
 
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