Game Freak balances singles around Magearna and Smogon around Toxapex, mystery solved.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
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I think you may be mixing Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra lol. Unless you really enjoyed the regenerator swapping hdb meta in IoA and Shifu clogging up the tier lol. Which is fair if you did. It seemed like most tended to like DLC2 more tho.
As for Dynamax compared to Terastal, tbf DMax was banned within like… the first month or so. And was overwhelmingly disliked. Terastal is more akin to Z moves in its popularity. Where some people really think it’s problematic and others genuinely love what it adds to the tier.
Personally I like tera but I do hope, when it eventually gets retested we have options for restricting it. Tera on preview imo would solve a lot of the problems people have with it imo. (Matchup Moth’s set being predictable being one of them)
As I've said before, most of the things that made SS so unfun were nerfed or just removed from the game (so far), and we've seen ridiculous new abilities and moves on the same level as Gen 5. Even without Tera I think that SV will be an extremely memorable and unique generation as GF is bound to nerf some of the more ridiculous stuff next gen. Saying that every recent gen has been "gen 7 OU but worse" is ridiculous, it's like saying that DPP and BW play the same because most of the core mechanics and relevant moves are the same. While I wish that GF had just nerfed Regenerator instead of recovery moves altogether, the bulky mons that defined SS have lost a lot of their best tools, and it's unsure whether DLCs will bring them back (Toxic and Scald, at least, are unlikely to return).
The no Ban of Urshifu-S was literally the only Bad thing of DLC1 Meta. I did like the Regenerator cores and I managed to find ways to abuse opponents using them. Then Lando-T, Heatran, Kartana, Lele and all the legendaries came back and the Meta became SM OU but without the Megas (which were cool).
Before DPP, all Legendaries had some big drawback, being either typing, movepool or mediocre ability. Since DPP, GF started to optimize them and Metas became full of them. DLC1 had very few legendaries and the average BST of the Tier was way lower than both SM and the DLC2 (or current Meta). I liked that detail a lot.
https://pokepast.es/24c6efd9c3489c8f < This was my favorite team of DLC1, Gardevoir abusing Regenerator and Magic Guard cores. You couldn,t build something similar after DLC2.
https://pokepast.es/444e85d4d8793ab8 < A Charizard HO. One of the few Times I actually liked an HO team.
https://pokepast.es/ec5f9a4f331b4a8b < Roserade being useful AND AV + Rocks Cobalion. This actually won a Snake game.
https://pokepast.es/a96afcf2b0ebfe11 < This team is the reason for which Centiskorch was one of my favorite Mons of Gen 8.
https://pokepast.es/6f7fdc5193c0d511 < Not really good, but Rapidash and Ninetales doing stuff.
https://pokepast.es/b9a698327db0c935 < A Duraludon of all things decided to break all fat cores.
https://pokepast.es/c1c6b448bad418cc < Bewear Stall.
https://pokepast.es/778c69382376d8e6 < Avalugg + Coil Stall.
https://pokepast.es/946258b2c3f6cc2b < Heracross with Grassy Terrain + Para support.
This was the type of Meta I liked. Maybe if Zygarde, Spectrier (which this SV Gen I fully approve the Ban, hopefully its never retested) and Pheromosa stayed unbanned in DLC2 I would appreciate it more, since they made the Meta very different from the usualy Lando/Heatran/Kartana/Lele/Tornadus cores that plagued the Meta. I would have also accepted the former 3 Mons being banned but with at least some of the later (or Melmetal) making them compay in Ubers. As things turned out, DLC2 for me way worse than DLC1, my (almost) perfect Meta was totally ruined and from going 5-1 in 2020 Wcop and 6-3 in 2020 Snake I went to not winning almost any relevant game in the rest of the generation. Not only the DLC2 Meta was less fun and balanced, I also became worse myself because of it.
i'm here not to single you out but to remind everyone as I've seen several people say this on literally one page:
it's "Ninetales", not Ninetails
not only is "Ninetails" just deadass the name of the actual mythology "nine-tailed fox" about a fox-like creature of which many fictional foxes are based on (for instance, that weird ass digimon looking ass mother fucker in Naruto)
the reason it is "Ninetales" is to be a pun on Nine tails, and Tales, obviously. and most pokedex entries are about a legend surrounding the pokemon.
now, why is this important enough to post about?
because if you do it a stranger on the internet who loves ninetales will be sad and you wouldn't like that would you???
you monster.
on the topic of if alolan-ninetales was actually in gen 9 though, it would be a monster, honestly. Screens teams are already bad enough with stuff like Grimmsnarl, and if you want Aurora Veil you have to use abomasnow
it's also faster than a lot of Pokemon and because it isn't dedicating two moves to screens it can fit a lot more. Honestly though I think Dragapult is a very very good screens setter, and even ANinetales wouldn't be the only good setter, perhaps, just as Eleki was an option in Gen 8 as well.
Honestly, the real problem mon of late stage SM OU was Kartana. Ridiculously overtuned between it's Z-move wallbreaking sets, Choice Band, and Choice Scarf all being very dangerous in their own rights and being kinda hard to predict which one you're facing until its too late (its gotten a Beast Boost). At least Ash-Gren was burdened by teams preparing hard for Specs Greninja and Magearna... didn't have its Gen 8 movepool (this one was also a bit crazy but I'd prefer to keep it in Gen 7 than not).
To bring the topic back to SV though, I've been tinkering with my Zapdos-Galar team some more after the bans, and I think its improved slightly as a mon post-Urshifu ban (Volcarona being banned doesn't really do much for it). Choice Band sets can 1v1 IDPress Zamazenta if the opponent has burned their Tera (and if they use it on Zama then you should have a backup check for that hopefully) and are generally alright into the bulky cores that people are attempting unless they have something like physically defensive Gholdengo or Zapdos-Kanto. Urshifu being gone has made it even easier to just slap on bulky Grounds as your physical blanket checks (i.e. Tusk and Lando), which Zapdos-G takes advantage of easily. I haven't really toyed with Tera typings past Flying for nuclear Brave Birds, but if someone has found an interesting one in their time using Zapdos-G, feel free to chime in. I have weird faith in this mon, or maybe it's just really good into ladder teams, lol.
While I know Basculegion-M is the big hype right now for Wave Crash, there's a part of me that's very curious about Bascu-F's slightly more Special offenses and Ghost STAB (same SpA as Dragapult so not unusable at least for spammable types) given how few Water Immunities the tier has right now in tandem with said Water STAB giving an out to the most common Ghost Resistances/Immunities. Curious mainly because Floatzel offers an immediate alt to Basc-M doing the above while Rain Special Breakers (Some Wake sets, Greninja, Golduck, and non-Water nukes like Torn-T) might be better than Basc-F but at least not immediately comparable? It's a bit Tera dependent against the mainly-Dark-Type checks, but it's not like Tera Water is a Huge ask for an offensive Rain Mon, even if tiering action in several months may bite this.
Any Calcs will be using Spell Tag rather than Specs or Adaptability because I hate Predicting and this is assuming SS to patch up speed, but with Adaptability or such you can make more nuclear hits if you're better than me. That said Spell Tag allowing a move change does ease prediction for those switch-ins for obvious reasons
tl;dr Has anyone tried the girl fish ghost, since it looks interesting if not on Basc-M's level of relevance?
Any Calcs will be using Spell Tag rather than Specs or Adaptability because I hate Predicting and this is assuming SS to patch up speed, but with Adaptability or such you can make more nuclear hits if you're better than me. That said Spell Tag allowing a move change does ease prediction for those switch-ins for obvious reasons
- Bulky Kingambit can be beaten under Rain by Shadow Ball + Hydro Pump with a neutral Tera to dodge Sucker, even with 5 Fainted Allies and Rocks, and Offensive without HP has a 30% Chance at being OHKO'd by Rain HP after Rocks. Kingambit having Tera Dark can get the Sucker KO but this is assuming he both has that type and their Tera is still available late game.
- Offensive Moltres-G literally needs absolute minimum roll to survive Shadow Ball + Hydro Pump under Rain, and lacks Priority like Kingambit had to get around the Swift Swim speed.
- Samurott resists both STABs but isn't too bulky, taking 54% Minimum from Hydro Pump and being 2HKO'd if it's not a SP variant.
- Ursaluna and Ting-Lu are KO'd by Water STAB and are slower even outside Rain so they ain't checking that without TR
- Fairy Garg (Water's a Hard Counter, no question) can JUST stomach Hydro Pump under Rain, but those have exactly as much PP as its Recover, assuming no SpD drop switching into a Shadow Ball. Since it'll stall out the Rain I consider this a Solid Check, but Garg has to burn some Recovers while doing so if it's eating the hits, which might be worth SOMETHING at least if trying to overload the Salt.
- SpD Overqwil (niche but figure I should try to cover bases) fails to KO with Crunch while almost always being KO'd by Shadow Ball + Rain HP after Rocks (I don't see a variant running Speed or SS so seemed fair to assume it goes second)
Kingambit (Tera Dragon for Bascu chosen just for a neutral Tera without Water's Damage boost. Water's honestly preferable in general but this was to show the power wasn't necessary for the KO)
252+ SpA Basculegion-F Shadow Ball vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 68-81 (17 - 20.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Tera Dragon Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit in Rain: 283-334 (70.7 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dragon Basculegion-F: 276-325 (72.4 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Moltres-G
252+ SpA Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Moltres-Galar in Rain: 204-240 (63.5 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ting-Lu (Honestly needing THIS to be 2HKO'd by a SE Hydro Pump says something to me about this thing's bulk too)
252+ SpA Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu in Rain: 312-368 (60.7 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Garganacl (Tera Fairy. Can lose from full even if Tera'd already per below, but this is again down to the Tera Type)
252+ SpA Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Fairy Garganacl in Rain: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Overqwil
252+ SpA Spell Tag Basculegion-F Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Overqwil: 74-87 (19.7 - 23.2%) -- 23.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Overqwil in Rain: 255-301 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Basculegion-F Shadow Ball vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 68-81 (17 - 20.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Tera Dragon Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit in Rain: 283-334 (70.7 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Dragon Basculegion-F: 276-325 (72.4 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Moltres-G
252+ SpA Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Moltres-Galar in Rain: 204-240 (63.5 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Ting-Lu (Honestly needing THIS to be 2HKO'd by a SE Hydro Pump says something to me about this thing's bulk too)
252+ SpA Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Ting-Lu in Rain: 312-368 (60.7 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Garganacl (Tera Fairy. Can lose from full even if Tera'd already per below, but this is again down to the Tera Type)
252+ SpA Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Fairy Garganacl in Rain: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Overqwil
252+ SpA Spell Tag Basculegion-F Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Overqwil: 74-87 (19.7 - 23.2%) -- 23.6% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Basculegion-F Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Overqwil in Rain: 255-301 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
tl;dr Has anyone tried the girl fish ghost, since it looks interesting if not on Basc-M's level of relevance?
Yes, but you're a wimp for using Spell Tag. L2p.
Basculegion-F @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Surf
Been messing around with Moltres as a Fairy check. Being immune to Earth Power, and resistant to CC is pretty nice for the two big fairies of the tier. Far from perfect though as CM from Enamorus can potentially muscle past you with SpAtt drops, and TBolt from Valiant hits like a truck. Still, has been a fun mon to use.
THE DITTO THEOREM
The more viable Ditto is in a tier, the less healthy that tier is.
Not always true, Ditto was awful during the shed tail spam with Cyclizar.
It's a one way correlation. Ditto being unviable doesn't indicate a healthy tier.
That aligns with the theory since Shed Tail was balanced.
Ditto being viable doesn't mean the healthy, while it being unviable also doesn't mean it is healthy, that sounds like Pokémon so it must be true.
Y'all, I forgot how weird low ladder can be. Just had a promising suspect run upended by Tera Steel Weakness Policy Iron Head Dragonite.
Before boots weakness policy was the best item for Dragonite besides band, give that some respect.
I love FSG but idk if I can forgive him for bringing the totally incorrect usage of the word "theorem" into mainstream lexicon. But also, this doesn't hold up. Ditto pretty much always retains the same fringe viability regardless.
Friendly reminder, I got a comment on "Why Abilities are Everything - The Regigas Theorem"
It got 6k likes, and is increasing as we speak
EDIT: It's almost 7k
Not meant for promotion at all. It's only proof of what I said
the OU council is slowly getting rid of pokemon that can kill heatran.
We have had zama-C banned, which can body press it to oblivion if it switches in on a IPress; we had pao, who could 1v1 a heatran if it missed a single magma storm;volcarona, whose tera ground/water sets turned a counter into death fodder; and shifu, who could squash the super lava spiderfrogthing with either of its stabs. we now have the zama-H suspect, which is another breaker gone potentially.
its all a plot so that that the council can have an unkillable heatran meta
We have had zama-C banned, which can body press it to oblivion if it switches in on a IPress; we had pao, who could 1v1 a heatran if it missed a single magma storm;volcarona, whose tera ground/water sets turned a counter into death fodder; and shifu, who could squash the super lava spiderfrogthing with either of its stabs. we now have the zama-H suspect, which is another breaker gone potentially.
its all a plot so that that the council can have an unkillable heatran meta
conspiracy theory moment
Replace Heatran with Kingambit and you'd be onto something.
I remember a video of him saying that Scizor was one of the biggest winners in this gen and was one of the pilars of OU pre-Home. I mean, I got reqs with Scizor in pre-home once, but don't undertand why he considered Scizor to be the biggest winner over everyone else.
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