Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[yomaalt]

Took alot of time but here’s a personal VR + explanations.

S Rank

View attachment 554972(No surprise. The best defensive glue in the tier and the best hazard setter in the tier. Soft-Checks a bunch of the tier, very annoying to switch into itself, can also run an SD set, fits on every archetype including HO. Doesn’t mind hazards much while also absorbing Knock.)

View attachment 554973(You know it, we all know it. Waterpon is a powerful offensive threat but also a versatile defensive one. Ivy/Horn Leech/Knock/SD is all it needs to shred most of the tier. Defensive Waterpon has a ton of utility and with Tera or its defensive typing, checks alot of top threats such as Ghold, special Pult, Manaphy, Blood Luna (with Encore), Rain, BB Gren, Moth, Wake, etc. It can do pretty much everything. Wallbreak, set up spikes, Stallbreak, Pivot, Knock, or just win games on its own cause its Waterpon.)

I ain't gon lie not putting gambit in S tier when all that changed with DLC is tusk, hrott, gren, etc.... usage dropping is kinda crazy. Only thing that changed was the funky little fellow being in the spotlight until the cold reality of 252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch hit her (With rocks up this was an OHKO) With gliscor spikes being bloody everywhere, and prolly hrott spikes gonna start rising soon since people are flocking to hatterene again as hazard control, gambit is quite literally, still the king.


SPEAKING OF, I know this is a hot take but I feel as if tusk is barely hanging onto S- due to the fact he's the "easiest" hazard clearer (I say "easiest" as this mf feels threatened by just about every great setter now. Ting? ruin + whirlwind it, it'll die to spikes soon. Hrott? Razor/Aqua cutter it, or ifyou hate it, hydro pump him. Gliscor? Tox on the switch, prot, then literally just spam spikes, 4 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 244-288 (69.3 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal, play your cards right and tusk ain't winning lmfao)

I unno tho or is this sentiment of metagame hositility towards tusk just me being a noob?

 

[PrincessGardevoir]

I unno tho or is this sentiment of metagame hositility towards tusk just me being a noob?

I don't think it's you being a noob, but it's asking the question of 'What's better?' Cinderace will just result in both sides of the field being littered with hazards and is reliant on Boots to itself not instantly die (and also doesn't win vs Ting or Glisc, and fears Aqua Jet from Hrott), and Corvi is living in eternal pain right now. There's Treads who hits even less hard but can maybe Steel Beam I guess, but what else do you even have left for hazard removal?

I also do completely get the sentiment, using him solely as a spinner has been utter hell for me and I want the pain to stop. At least offensive sets are doing okay? I guess?

 

[MattC (Banned)]

ARCTIC MONOCLAW!​

Oh fuck this shit NOT AGAAAAAAAIN

Delibird Heart ping

 

[MrE]

Alright, since everyone seems kind of distracted with Gholdengo, dropping Darkrai and if Chilly Ninetales is actually good (which come tf on, it is), I thought I’d unearth a horror of metagame past with some added updates:

ARCTIC MONOCLAW!
https://pokepast.es/19b93e1ae2d02d4e
​

- The team’s primary support system. Sets Aurora Veil, hits Waterpon and Gliscor with Freeze Dry, Encores anything that happens to click into a bad move, you already know what this thing does.

- The titular Quick Draw / Quick Claw Pokémon. None of the Ogerpon forms want to switch into it, checks Sneasler pretty well, checks a common annoyance to Veil teams in Spore Breloom and also forces Cinderace and Moltres to think twice before doing anything. Tusk and Valiant still hate it just as much as they did before.

- Remember how everyone’s favourite cocaine bear had no longevity with Flame Orb and without it, it had middling power? All it took for those issues to be fixed was seemingly a transformation into a cyborg zombie (with added Recovery, broken STAB thanks to Mind’s Eye + Gigaton Boomburst Blood Moon and a shift towards becoming a Calm Mind tank). Now, nothing besides Blissey can come in safely on this guy with the busted Mind’s Eye + Blood Moon combo. Gholdengo doesn’t want anything to do with matching up against it, Corviknight doesn’t handle this version of the cocaine bear at all and anything that doesn’t have good special bulk while also resisting it at the same time gets completely mauled. Not to mention Quick Claw gives it a way to jumpscare everything faster than it without resorting to Tera Fighting Vaccuum Wave. Tera Flying allows it to resist Grass and Fighting moves so it can keep on nuking shit. It’s either you die instantly, you get brutually murdered or you get crippled (and die anyways) with this edgy bear.

- It’s just the usual Bulky Kingambit set but Sucker Punch is replaced with Tera Blast and Leftovers is replaced with Quick Claw. Now Fairy-powered Kingambit reverse sweeps are even more bullshit!

- Tail Glow, Water STAB, a colourful selection of Ice/Grass/Fairy coverage and the classic Mythical/Mew statline of 100 across the board is still OP asf behind screens. Now with a 30% chance to make your opponent immediately forfeit move first every turn! What else am I supposed to say? The thing’s powerful no matter what team it gets put on.

- Those SubLeftovers sets for the ice horse were pretty fun back in Gen 8, although Ice really isn’t a durable typing… But with the added Defense boost that Snow gives now along with ’s Aurora Veil making its raw bulk even better and Quick Claw, this joke of a Legendary becomes more scary than funny. I mean, it has the same Attack stat as Baxcalibur, the same Ice STAB, ground coverage in High Horsepower, Close Combat as a coverage option and even a Moxie clone. Tera Fighting for making the lives of any opposing Kingambit that much harder and actually giving yourself resistances of some sort.

As an alternative, you could use Iron Hands since it’s just got much better natural bulk factoring in typing, better Dual-STAB and still has Ice Punch for any annoying Ground types that come its way.

It’s basically a Screens Bulky Offense team but with extra RNG. Delibird Heart was a revolutionary with the original Monoclaw, so I thought I’d give it a bit of an update.

Hide

Don’t blame me if Quick Claw actually gets banned. I’m just a messenger lol

You are the the hero we need but don't deserve, GOAT team and people should embrace the chaos.

 

[Sahvyt]

That sounds really cool but maybe Thief on top of fling is trying to do too much? Especially since you lose boosted acrobatics after you thief something

i was thinking about replacing it with EQ, but potentially stealing Leftovers and being able to get 18% every turn because of Poison Heal or getting a Rocky Helmet to punish U-turn is sorta insane.

 

[Goodstyle]

Took alot of time but here’s a personal VR + explanations.

S Rank

View attachment 554972(No surprise. The best defensive glue in the tier and the best hazard setter in the tier. Soft-Checks a bunch of the tier, very annoying to switch into itself, can also run an SD set, fits on every archetype including HO. Doesn’t mind hazards much while also absorbing Knock.)

View attachment 554973(You know it, we all know it. Waterpon is a powerful offensive threat but also a versatile defensive one. Ivy/Horn Leech/Knock/SD is all it needs to shred most of the tier. Defensive Waterpon has a ton of utility and with Tera or its defensive typing, checks alot of top threats such as Ghold, special Pult, Manaphy, Blood Luna (with Encore), Rain, BB Gren, Moth, Wake, etc. It can do pretty much everything. Wallbreak, set up spikes, Stallbreak, Pivot, Knock, or just win games on its own cause its Waterpon.)

S- Rank

View attachment 554975
View attachment 554976
View attachment 554977
These three don’t need an introduction. Obviously they are some of the best mons in the tier but Glis/Waterpon are just ridiculously splashable and good. Been running Sub Tusk as a way to minimize the 50/50s with Ghold and block Toxic from Gliscor, it gets the job done while Tusk itself also still hits hard. Nasty Plot Ghold is still a scary breaker while Scarf is still a strong lead against most BO leads. Been running T-Wave on Scarf which cripples Gambit and Cinder on the switch. With how strong offensive threats like Oger are, Gambit’s Sucker and solid bulky is just as valuable as before, except its slightly less dumb this time imo. Gambit is the most likely out of the three to rise to S rank for me.

A+ Rank

View attachment 554981(Its Pult, ofc its gonna be good. Ghost spam is really good rn, has a bunch of sets to play with. Specs, Hex, Band, etc. With how easy status is to spread in the tier with Gliscor around, Hex on Specs Pult sets becomes much more valuable and nasty. Lets not forget how broken Tera Dragon Draco is.)
View attachment 554982(With Bax gone from the tier and Waterpon being one of the best mons in the tier, Dnite has become both meta and anti-meta again. It has a ton of options to play with in its main DD set such as Fire Punch, Encore, Ice Spinner, Hurricane, etc. Its one of the best Waterpon checks while being able to rkill almost everything in the meta. Band is underrated due to people expecting DD only to take a shitton from its Banded 134 Attack stat. Splashable and versatile.)
View attachment 554983(Valiant is still good, what a surprise /s. Valiant is much easier to play around defensively in Teal Mask. New mons like Gliscor, and Clef are excellent Valiant checks while Amoonguss, Molt, and Zapdos still remain good in the tier. Moth rose quite alot since the few weeks Firepon was in the tier. Instead of trying to 6-0 teams, Valiant acts more as an offensive support/cleaner, basically the same as Home but less polarizing. It keeps in check a bunch of offensive sweepers such as Gambit, Bloodmoon, Manaphy, Kommo-o, etc. Even though Valiant isn’t gonna 6-0 teams, its one of the most versatile mons in the tier.)
View attachment 554984(Nobody is gonna side with me on this, but fuck it. Meowscarada is great in this meta. Band Flower Trick one shots Waterpon after rocks, without Tera. Its an incredibly annoying pivot that can rack up damage fast, its one of the fastest unboosted mons in the tier, has Low Kick for Gambit, matches up well against Gren. Play Rough smacks Kommo-o and Wake. Fast and a pain to switch into. Oh and ofc its a good hazard lead.)
View attachment 554987(Moon has been getting nothing but W’s in Teal Mask. Knock Off being a really good stab option, Bax getting banished to the shadow realm, switches into Waterpon’s STABs, has a nice Ghost resist. There is Tera Flying DD, Band, and even possibly a Boots set since Knock/Roost/U-Turn is always annoying. It also checks non-Dgleam Moth and non-Ice Beam/Dgleam Manaphy. Going from outclassed to a top mon, congrats Moon.)
View attachment 554989(This shit is broken lmao.)

A Rank

View attachment 554995(One of the biggest glow ups from Home to DLC1. The combination of its fantastic bulk, Regen, Scald, and Flip Turn have made it a splashable defensive glue and the second best bulky water in the tier. It pretty much blanket checks most of the physical attackers in the tier with option to either fish for burns or pivot into something that can rkill said offensive threat. Matches up really nicely against rain, specially since it can stall out rain turns via Protect. I couldn’t rank it any further since it gets hard walled by Wellspring Ogre and is still exploitable by the likes of Gliscor and Gholdengo. Nevertheless, loving the new Mola.)
View attachment 555004(A bit overblown. Veil isn’t nearly as popular as it was when Bax and Firepon were in the tier. It has inconsistent match ups with the top mons, especially Gliscor who can just come in and set up hazards again cause realistically, what is Cinder gonna do back? Its still a strong pivot, burning checks like Waterpon, Tusk, Dnite, etc is always gonna be appreciated, but its matchup into Gliscor is just very mediocre, specially as hazard removal. Overrated but still obviously good.)
View attachment 555014(Clef does Clef things. Sets up rocks, Knock + T-Wave, etc. One of the best Valiant checks in the tier. Absorbing Knock and being immune to hazards is a deal breaker. Imo tho the best sets rn are SpD Tera Grass Unaware and CM. Clef is unique in being an Unaware wall with the invaluable fairy typing without Tera and having solid special bulk. Its funnily enough one of the best Bloodmoon checks in the tier. With Tera Grass it stuffs out Waterpon even without PhysD investment and can T-Wave it. More physically defensive sets even check other shit like Valiant, BU Tusk, and Kommo-o. CM sets with Tera Water or Ground make for scary wincons, specially since even without spd investment, Modest Ghold doesn’t even one shot it at full. Veil being less common also helps Clef feel less deadweight. Rain sucks tho but its not like Clef ever had a stellar Rain mu anyways. Clef is still good y’all.)
View attachment 555064(Dozo has been consistently the same viability wise since the beginning of SV OU. Checks a bunch of physical attackers, Curse wincon, easy to exploit due to a lack of recovery besides rest and very vulnerable to spikes.)
View attachment 555066(Shits on common Gliscor Spike Stacking builds while being a threatening CM sweeper with Tera. Hamurott still trashes it but Hatt matches up well with every other hazard setter in the tier. Fits on BO, Veil, and Sun. Doesn’t actually check much defensively but its utility is not to be understated. If the meta gets bulkier as a result of more defensive staples, Hatt will only get better with time.)
View attachment 555067(Kommo-o is legit great both as a sweeper and a defensive glue. Mola being such a reliable Wish passer offsets its “no recovery” weakness. Checks several mons and has its own utility with Rocks, Roar, and Taunt. Stuff like Tera Dark Gambit, non-Play Rough Waterpon, Dnite, and non-Psychic/Dgleam Manaphy. Bulletproof lets bulkier builds and HO pivot into the ghosts. Its defensive presence shines even more on HO where it uses its bulk + typing to find setup opportunities and it has a billion ways to mess the opponent up. Be it Special, Phsyical, Mixed, Scale Shot or even Salac BD cause why not. Tera Normal Boomburst with Throat Spray is also just insane. Bax leaving has only made it easier for Kommo-o to be slot onto teams, be it offensive or defensive builds. It might rise for me in like a week
View attachment 555072(Firepon provoking high usage of this thing made people realize Moth is pretty kino, even with Firepon gone. An offensive threat that checks Valiant and Ghold. Fiery Dance boosts can snowball teams hard. Most player’s special walls are Gliscor who risks getting blown up by Fiery Dance boosts or Glowking who takes 2 turns to dent Moth or run T-Wave which in that case, Substitute says hello. Specs Moth is a powerhouse, and under Sun its a demon. It tears apart many common defensive cores atm, and with Tran pretty much being nonexistent, it doesn’t even need to run Tera Ground Blast.)
View attachment 555080(Wake is still kinda stupid and they buffed it even further by giving it Knock and Scald. Now Wake can ruin Blissey and save the Hydro/Draco fun for the rest of the team. Scald is just an improved Hydro Steam outside of Sun. The admittedly decent Empoleon and Wellspring-Oger are solid checks to Wake (the latter dies to Specs Tera Dragon Draco tho lmao). Protect on Gliscor and Mola makes it easier for bulkier builds to pivot around Specs. Can you tell that DLC1 is more balanced than Home? If I’m not complaining about Wake anymore despite buffing it, they’re doing something right.)
View attachment 555081(Zama is about the same viability wise as before but slightly better since the birds aren’t nearly as common as in Home. Sub-ID absolutely shits on Gliscor and Mola. It checks the usual suspects, Gambit, Dnite, Hamurott, and also now Waterpon. Band is kinda bad cause Gliscor fucks with it, but the bread n’ butter works great as always.)

A- Rank

View attachment 555084(Sussy baka Among Us. Resisting Grass/Water while not having to worry about any of Waterpon’s coverage (except Zen Headbutt but who tf is running that?). It is the most consistent check to it while also checking other notable threats like Valiant, BB Gren, and Meow. Though Amoonguss is even more passive this time around due to both Ghold AND Gliscor completely stuffing it, letting the latter get off Spikes or Toxic for free, hence why it dropped from its A rank. Regardless, defensive grass types are proving themselves valuable in the current meta with the dominance of Waterpon. The bans of both Firepon and Bax help its case. There is another defensive Grass Type but we’ll get to it.)
View attachment 555086(Sub-CM Enam is still scary. It has more setup opportunities with how popular Gliscor is. It also still matches up well with a few top threats such as Tusk and Valiant. Has anyone tried Lefties Sub-Protect just to fuck with Blood Moon? Gets shit on Glowking but a funny concept no less. Enam was considered overrated in Home and now imo it’s appropriately rated here in A-.)
View attachment 555087(Fell off due to Gliscor and Clef but the Curse set lets it continue thriving in the meta. Don’t even bother running non-Curse Garg. Gliscor sits on you for days and you have plenty of other rockers to choose from. Curse is a strong wincon with whatever Tera it wants honestly. Tera Grass is something that popped up to check Meow and Waterpon while still checking rain. Oh and ofc the Ghost resist will never not be bad.)
View attachment 555113(Annoying as fuck to deal with on HO and though with the introduction of a few new mons, Gren remains a great cleaner in the tier and one with the HO dominating qualities it boasts. Most of what can be said about it in Hone can apply to it in DLC1 so I won’t stretch this further.)
View attachment 555116(Manaphy is a solid wallbreaker and wincon on HO and Rain. However it is not on the level of being banworthy like it was the first week for a few reasons. Heavy 4MSS, vulnerable to being rkilled, Waterpon, and more water resists being plastered onto teams in response of it. Its Tera reliant in order to not get rkilled by Meow or Pult who can hit past Screens. Not to mention the abundance of fast Encore in the tier, regardless its a solid wincon that can also break defensive teams in half, just like the good ol days.)
View attachment 555121(The loss of Bax really dropped this mon, but not by much. Veil is still good in the current metagame. Assisting powerful setup sweepers such as Gambit, Ogerpon, Manaphy, Moon, and FNAF Luna. Encore is always a plus on anything that has it, the move pretty much became the Gen 6 equivalent of Scald. The physical from Snow and its naturally high special bulk gives it opportunities to set up Veil at least 2-3 times a match. Not much else to say about it.)
View attachment 555122(Hamurott is still good, what can I say. Gliscor has taken its place as the premier spike setter and Waterpon is another water-type spike setter with an offensive presence, but Samurott is Samurott and being a hazard setter that bypasses Hatt will never not be absurd. Sporting STAB Knock and now Flip Turn, resisting both Ghold’s STABs and switching in at least one or twice. Encore cause ofc. Still a great spike setter, just overshadowed atm by the big two.)
View attachment 555129
View attachment 555130(Both Slowkings are viable interchangeably, but imo Joeking fairs better in the current meta. Not being weak to Earth Power from Bloodmoon and having a water resist without Tera is just a bit more valuable since it helps BO/Balance builds play around those mons. Not being weak to Tusk EQ is also a solid niche, but more importantly its Scald that puts its a step above its evil British twin. It is much more consistent at punishing switch ins like Gambit or Hamurott rather than relying on a predicted read. That being said, Glowking has the upper hand in other cases. Its a check to CM Valiant and Enam, absorbs T-Spikes, has a slightly stronger FS, its mu against Garg and Zapdos is also just way better for obvious reasons. I prefer Joeking but Glowking is also still good in this meta.)
View attachment 555134(Still good, just not borderline Top 5 like in Home. SpD hurt its offensive capabilities by alot, due to not being able to be worn down throughout a game and in return, Gliscor threatens with Toxic. Also Knock Off is everywhere. Despite this, Static is still fucking broken and its matchup against physical Valiant, Meow, and even Moon is nice. It can compensate for the fact Gliscor exists by running U-Turn over Volt. It also still threatens bulky waters and Zama so its offensive presence is still there, but having a prominent bulky ground type with Poison Heal be one of the best mons in the tier have toned it down.)

B+ Rank

View attachment 555141(Not alot has changed for Cress. Shits on Gliscor cause of Tera Poison. A deadly matchup fish but still a match up fish. No Bax means less offensive powerhouses that can 2HKO Cress. If you know about it from Home, you know about it in DLC.)
View attachment 555143(Not a whole lot to say about it. Glimmora is pretty much the same as Home only a bit better due to Glowking being less popular.)
View attachment 555144(Defensively, completely outclassed. Offensively however, its a menace. Sub or Taunt ruins Gliscor and it can set up SD or smack it down with…Smack Down. Can shred through many common defensive cores while also sharing Gliscor’s defensive typing. Its ranked lower because ofc, Gliscor took its defensive niche, but its no sloutch defensively. EQ/Smack Down/G-Knot still doesn’t have much in safe switch ins.)
View attachment 555145(Flame Body has pretty much kept Moltres relevant even while surrounded in a sea of bulky waters. Checking Gambit/Tusk/Ghold/Valiant all at once will never not be relevant. Even moreso now since Tusk doesn’t have time to run Head Smash or Knock when it has to deal with Gliscor’s ass. Can also pivot out of sturdy fire resists to keep up momentum or Roar out a dangerous CM Cress or Booster Moth. Bax being gone helps it a ton since its no longer punished for clicking a fire move. The abundance of Knock Off prevents me from putting it any higher tho.
View attachment 555148(Grassy Glide is back babyy. Rilla was boosted even further with Firepon and Bax being gone, but also the fact it now has priority in an aggresive metagame (Not busted priority but 70 bp priority is still good). Rilla is also notably a Grass Type and one that threatens Waterpon with priority Grassy Glide. Then it has Knock Off for the birds, Drain Punch for Gambit, and U-Turn cause you know why. Right now the sets are Terrain Extender and Band. The question is will Bulky SD Rilla make a return to SV OU? Find out on Game Theory.)
View attachment 555149(Underrated asf. Surprised it wasn’t even ranked. TL;DR, Sinistcha is a bulky physical wall, Water resist and spinblocker that spreads burns and functions as one of the better Waterpon checks due to threatening it with a burn and eating Knock via Colbur. With Tera Steel CM it is a terrifying wincon since Tusk and Gliscor can’t even one shot this physical fortress and losing the 1v1 anyways due to how broken Strength Sap is. Grass-Type Scald is very annoying to switch into, even if they don’t mind burns, that extra chip damage. Also look at this bozo Cinderace fail to 2HKO it. Hell even standard Moth doesn’t beat it if it gets up one CM.

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Sinistcha: 126-150 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 0 SpA Sinistcha Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 141-166 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatproof Sinistcha: 126-150 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Insane. Grass/Ghost is a broken type, but the only mons that had it up until now were mid asf. Its movepool is small because Matcha, Sball/Hex, CM, and Strength Sap are all it needs. Checks a bunch of things and can win games, it deserves to be respected.)
View attachment 555157(Nerfed due to the existence of Gliscor and the physically bulky Mola being able to Scald burn it. Before Sneasler can run CC/Gunk and S-Claw to cover everything, but now here comes Gliscor who threatens it or can Toxic it if Sneasler clicks Tera Flying. That being said, its still a good wincon in the tier, especially with Rillaboom buffed and better than before. I believe with time, Sneasler might rise up, or fall, who knows.)
View attachment 555158(Heavily outclassed by Gliscor but it has a couple advantages over it. Ghost resist is always invaluable in the tier. Hits a bit harder than Gliscor which is helpful cause it can hit Hatt hard on the switch with EQ. Mola being as good as it is helps with its longevity issue. Blocking Future Sight is still useful. It might drop further simply cause Gliscor does its spiking job and more.)
View attachment 555160(The Sun Is A Deadly Lazer)

B Rank

View attachment 555161View attachment 555162View attachment 555163(Clumping them together cause their viability is based on how good rain is. Waterpon is a big monkey paw for rain. You get a powerful Water/Grass type, but that Water/Grass type also has Water Absorb and shits on the whole archetype. Mola/Gliscor cores are really hard to deal with for rain, however Waterpon and Gren provide insurance for rain to deal with both bulkier builds, and cover holes in teambuilding. Also as long as HO is still strong, Rain will be a great counter team, til they bring out Waterpon.)
View attachment 555169(Hard walled by Gliscor and Balloon Gambit, but it still checks a bunch of things while sporting a Water Immunity. Gliscor is just such a dominating presence that also can lay Spikes and click Toxic, that I can’t rank it anywhere but here)
View attachment 555171(Hard walled by Ghold but its still a decent check to a bunch of things. Never use it as a Defogger. Just bait Ghold switch ins with U-Turn and pair it with 1-2 things that exploit it. Also Corv is a fake Blood Luna Check. Gangsta til it Tera Poisons.)
View attachment 555172(After 13 years, Empoleon is finally viable in OU again. All it took was Roost. Has a ton of utility in Knock, Roar, Rocks, Flip Turn, and Haze. The best Manaphy check in the tier and also shits on Cress. Also notably checks Wake. Outside of those three, Empoleon isn’t checking much else, also faces competition with other bulky waters like Mola and Waterpon. Still, I’m proud of my penguin boy.)
View attachment 555174(It was doomed to be in Bax’s shadow until the Gods gave mercy to this mammoth by vanquishing the demon ice dragon to the depths of Ubers. With it gone, Mamoswine is free to smite thee with earth and ice. Its continental force and its glacier-sized bashes are not to be taken lightly. Those whom blitz it shall regret their miscalculation as the wooly beast throws its shards of unrelentless frost and cold. Encounter carefully or meet an icy grave.)
View attachment 555175(You want a spinner that beats Ghold? Here you go. With max atk and max speed, Quaquaval always outspeeds and 2HKOs Ghold with Knock + Aqua Step/Wave Crash. In return it always lives a Sball, even with Tera in the equation. Unlike Tusk who risks getting sniped by Scarf MiR or play 50/50s with Balloon + Tera Flying. Quack’s typing also lets it match up well against most of the other hazard setters in the tier and Roost keeps it alive throughout a game. Aqua Step + Moxie can also serve as a lategame cleaner to unprepped teams, Knock Off gives Quack the extra utility to push it to being a great spinner. If you don’t need the spin, Encore bodies the Gambit mu. Better than Iron Treads lmao.)
View attachment 555176(Dirge is a bit better than in Home. More mons were introduced like Kommo-o and CM Clef which it absolutely stuffs. Other than that it’s quite overshadowed by the more consistent Molt who can check even more of the tier. Went from the best starter in OU to the worst starter in OU. Still the best starter in Ubers tho lol.)
View attachment 555177(Knock was a huge boon for it, now giving it proper utility and being able to cripple Zapdos. Bleakwind/Knock/Taunt is very annoying to play around for bulkier builds and Flying is pretty spammable atm. Doesn’t check alot of things, but it has the utility and threat factor to back it up.)
View attachment 555179(Passive, especially in this meta, but it checks a bunch of shit. See you in UU Pex.)
View attachment 555180(Mamoswine with zoomies. The biggest appeal of Weavile is its 125 speed tier blitzing past Meow, priority Ice Shard, and Low Kick for Gambit. Band Beat Up sets are better with more high base Atk mons such as Ogerpon. Knock Off means it makes progress no matter what and it can ofc clean late game.)

B- Rank

View attachment 555181(Scale Shot ironically didn’t change much about Chomp however it makes Chomp potentially threatening to offensive builds again. Free Rocky Helmet will always be valuable in a tier littered with physical powerhouses, but here is the thing. There is less competition with Bax gone but also still competition with Dnite and Moon who both check Moth and also actually resist Wellspring Oger’s STABs. Meanwhile they both perform its job much more consistently with the latter having a better speed tier. Its also not helped that its role as a breaker with Chain Chomp is now easily checked by SpD Gliscor, so it can’t even break teams as easily as it once did. Meanwhile Gliscor is just an infinitely better spike setter. So uh, sorry Chomp. Not even Scale Shot can save you.)
View attachment 555183(Imagine being a Dark type Defogger that loses to Ghold. Fucking bozo. Regardless, its still a solid ghost resist and physically defensive sponge on Balance or Stall. Checks SD Gliscor, Dnite, Tera Flying Moon, Waterpon, Meow, ur mother, alot of shit. Since Mandi is not beating Ghold, you can just forgo Defog for Foul Play, Taunt, Toxic, or U-Turn. Solid at being a physical wall but shit as a defogger.)
View attachment 555185(Not much to say about this.)
View attachment 555186(Grass/Rock with Fighting coverage is lowkey scary, even moreso than Grass/Water since there isn’t one type that just walls the type combination. Sturdy with Spikes and its high speed makes this an underrated lead, though that means no Waterpon. The defense boost from Tera gives it the upperhand over priority users such as Dnite and Gambit.)
View attachment 555187(Requires more support than the two other Ogerpons, but rewarding on the right teams. It functions similarly to Meow but with a permanent +1 Speed Boost upon Tera, which makes it a terrifying cleaner. Fortunately its locked behind a not so great offensive typing without any secondary STABs. Also faces competition with Meow, Rilla, and ofc Waterpon.)
View attachment 555188(Webs are bursting in popularity rn due to the plethora of abusers like Ghold, Waterpon, and Gambit. A bit of a mu fish tho since Cinder and Boots spam is a really tough mu.)
View attachment 555189(Tera reliant, moreso than ever, but its still decent. Tera Ice blasts Gliscor while hitting the other Grass Types. Outside of that Shocks finds itself outclassed by the vampire scorpion as a hazard setter.)
View attachment 555190(Checks Valiant, beats non-Fire Punch Dnite, Knock gives it an option to cripple the birds and Ghold. With a specific EV spread it can be a Defogger that 1v1s Ghold. Priority is also always nice in an aggressive meta. Now if only it had Roost.)
View attachment 555191(Taunt Three Attacks Volcanion destroys alot of Mola Balance builds. Steam Eruption burns are annoying. If the meta gets fatter, we might see more Volcanion, especially considering its rain mu.)
View attachment 555192(A nuke with a bit of defensive utility. Benefits from less Zapdos and also Knock Off into its moveset. Nothing else to say.)

Not gonna mention to C rank mons just cause I’m tired and their niches are pretty small to be discussed extensively. So here is the mons that suck. :)

Trash Rank

View attachment 555193(Holy shit this ass is thing. There are a billion water resists in the tier due to Waterpon who also completely outclasses it and revenge kills it easily. Imagine being a bulky water/fairy type that gets 2HKOd by Wake, with Bax gone there is straight up no reason to use this garbage.)

View attachment 555194(Poor Heatran. From Top 5 last gen to borderline trash. Everything it does, another mon does better. Rocks? Look around you. Ghost Check? Look around you. Breaker? What gen do you think this is? Gliscor ruins it. The loss of Toxic hurt this mon badly, since it has no way of dealing with certain bulky waters, especially Waterpon who outspeeds and threatens an OHKO, meanwhile bulkier variants can just heal off the 8 pp 75% accurate Magma Storms with Synthesis. Basically it can’t even be a pain in the ass to switch into anymore. Outside of Moth, this thing doesn’t check anything notable other than the ghosts and maybe Gambit. A sad day for Heatran fans.)

And thats it. Anything you all want to add?

I agree with a lot of this, but I think Pex is very underrated here. Special defence Pex completely invalidates Manaphy without tera electric, beats almost every Iron Valiant, beats Sun Specs Walking Wake, and beats most Iron Moths. And with zero physical defense investment it totally walls Sneasler and most Zams, include the Iron Defense Body Press set. All in one Pokemon, that's hella important IMO.

EDIT: Also works as a Bloodmoon Pivot, comfortable taking that, before you can switch into a ground immune mon that can threaten the beast out.

 

[Jhang]

Alright, since everyone seems kind of distracted with Gholdengo, dropping Darkrai and if Chilly Ninetales is actually good (which come tf on, it is), I thought I’d unearth a horror of metagame past with some added updates:

ARCTIC MONOCLAW!
https://pokepast.es/19b93e1ae2d02d4e
​

- The team’s primary support system. Sets Aurora Veil, hits Waterpon and Gliscor with Freeze Dry, Encores anything that happens to click into a bad move, you already know what this thing does.

- The titular Quick Draw / Quick Claw Pokémon. None of the Ogerpon forms want to switch into it, checks Sneasler pretty well, checks a common annoyance to Veil teams in Spore Breloom and also forces Cinderace and Moltres to think twice before doing anything. Tusk and Valiant still hate it just as much as they did before.

- Remember how everyone’s favourite cocaine bear had no longevity with Flame Orb and without it, it had middling power? All it took for those issues to be fixed was seemingly a transformation into a cyborg zombie (with added Recovery, broken STAB thanks to Mind’s Eye + Gigaton Boomburst Blood Moon and a shift towards becoming a Calm Mind tank). Now, nothing besides Blissey can come in safely on this guy with the busted Mind’s Eye + Blood Moon combo. Gholdengo doesn’t want anything to do with matching up against it, Corviknight doesn’t handle this version of the cocaine bear at all and anything that doesn’t have good special bulk while also resisting it at the same time gets completely mauled. Not to mention Quick Claw gives it a way to jumpscare everything faster than it without resorting to Tera Fighting Vaccuum Wave. Tera Flying allows it to resist Grass and Fighting moves so it can keep on nuking shit. It’s either you die instantly, you get brutually murdered or you get crippled (and die anyways) with this edgy bear.

- It’s just the usual Bulky Kingambit set but Sucker Punch is replaced with Tera Blast and Leftovers is replaced with Quick Claw. Now Fairy-powered Kingambit reverse sweeps are even more bullshit!

- Tail Glow, Water STAB, a colourful selection of Ice/Grass/Fairy coverage and the classic Mythical/Mew statline of 100 across the board is still OP asf behind screens. Now with a 30% chance to make your opponent immediately forfeit move first every turn! What else am I supposed to say? The thing’s powerful no matter what team it gets put on.

- Those SubLeftovers sets for the ice horse were pretty fun back in Gen 8, although Ice really isn’t a durable typing… But with the added Defense boost that Snow gives now along with ’s Aurora Veil making its raw bulk even better and Quick Claw, this joke of a Legendary becomes more scary than funny. I mean, it has the same Attack stat as Baxcalibur, the same Ice STAB, ground coverage in High Horsepower, Close Combat as a coverage option and even a Moxie clone. Tera Fighting for making the lives of any opposing Kingambit that much harder and actually giving yourself resistances of some sort.

As an alternative, you could use Iron Hands since it’s just got much better natural bulk factoring in typing, better Dual-STAB and still has Ice Punch for any annoying Ground types that come its way.

It’s basically a Screens Bulky Offense team but with extra RNG. Delibird Heart was a revolutionary with the original Monoclaw, so I thought I’d give it a bit of an update.

Hide

Don’t blame me if Quick Claw actually gets banned. I’m just a messenger lol

You know, now I am wondering: how bulky is Glastrier in snow, with and without screens. With a lack of priority, no Bulk Up, and a speed tier that acts as a middle ground between Avalugg and Avalugg but from Hisui, it isn't gonna make it a top wallbreaker nor bulky sweeper. But Bax sure made me think a lot about ice types who suddenly have astounding defensive profiles in a limited number of turns.

I am looking at you too, Frosmoth.

 

[YubelVT]

Anyone who says gg after losing to kingambit is lying. There's just no fucking reason to keep this shitstain in the tier. Excise the problems with the meta, starting with gambit

 

[Pokemon Trainer: Shadow]

Took alot of time but here’s a personal VR + explanations.

S Rank

View attachment 554972(No surprise. The best defensive glue in the tier and the best hazard setter in the tier. Soft-Checks a bunch of the tier, very annoying to switch into itself, can also run an SD set, fits on every archetype including HO. Doesn’t mind hazards much while also absorbing Knock.)

View attachment 554973(You know it, we all know it. Waterpon is a powerful offensive threat but also a versatile defensive one. Ivy/Horn Leech/Knock/SD is all it needs to shred most of the tier. Defensive Waterpon has a ton of utility and with Tera or its defensive typing, checks alot of top threats such as Ghold, special Pult, Manaphy, Blood Luna (with Encore), Rain, BB Gren, Moth, Wake, etc. It can do pretty much everything. Wallbreak, set up spikes, Stallbreak, Pivot, Knock, or just win games on its own cause its Waterpon.)

S- Rank

View attachment 554975
View attachment 554976
View attachment 554977
These three don’t need an introduction. Obviously they are some of the best mons in the tier but Glis/Waterpon are just ridiculously splashable and good. Been running Sub Tusk as a way to minimize the 50/50s with Ghold and block Toxic from Gliscor, it gets the job done while Tusk itself also still hits hard. Nasty Plot Ghold is still a scary breaker while Scarf is still a strong lead against most BO leads. Been running T-Wave on Scarf which cripples Gambit and Cinder on the switch. With how strong offensive threats like Oger are, Gambit’s Sucker and solid bulky is just as valuable as before, except its slightly less dumb this time imo. Gambit is the most likely out of the three to rise to S rank for me.

A+ Rank

View attachment 554981(Its Pult, ofc its gonna be good. Ghost spam is really good rn, has a bunch of sets to play with. Specs, Hex, Band, etc. With how easy status is to spread in the tier with Gliscor around, Hex on Specs Pult sets becomes much more valuable and nasty. Lets not forget how broken Tera Dragon Draco is.)
View attachment 554982(With Bax gone from the tier and Waterpon being one of the best mons in the tier, Dnite has become both meta and anti-meta again. It has a ton of options to play with in its main DD set such as Fire Punch, Encore, Ice Spinner, Hurricane, etc. Its one of the best Waterpon checks while being able to rkill almost everything in the meta. Band is underrated due to people expecting DD only to take a shitton from its Banded 134 Attack stat. Splashable and versatile.)
View attachment 554983(Valiant is still good, what a surprise /s. Valiant is much easier to play around defensively in Teal Mask. New mons like Gliscor, and Clef are excellent Valiant checks while Amoonguss, Molt, and Zapdos still remain good in the tier. Moth rose quite alot since the few weeks Firepon was in the tier. Instead of trying to 6-0 teams, Valiant acts more as an offensive support/cleaner, basically the same as Home but less polarizing. It keeps in check a bunch of offensive sweepers such as Gambit, Bloodmoon, Manaphy, Kommo-o, etc. Even though Valiant isn’t gonna 6-0 teams, its one of the most versatile mons in the tier.)
View attachment 554984(Nobody is gonna side with me on this, but fuck it. Meowscarada is great in this meta. Band Flower Trick one shots Waterpon after rocks, without Tera. Its an incredibly annoying pivot that can rack up damage fast, its one of the fastest unboosted mons in the tier, has Low Kick for Gambit, matches up well against Gren. Play Rough smacks Kommo-o and Wake. Fast and a pain to switch into. Oh and ofc its a good hazard lead.)
View attachment 554987(Moon has been getting nothing but W’s in Teal Mask. Knock Off being a really good stab option, Bax getting banished to the shadow realm, switches into Waterpon’s STABs, has a nice Ghost resist. There is Tera Flying DD, Band, and even possibly a Boots set since Knock/Roost/U-Turn is always annoying. It also checks non-Dgleam Moth and non-Ice Beam/Dgleam Manaphy. Going from outclassed to a top mon, congrats Moon.)
View attachment 554989(This shit is broken lmao.)

A Rank

View attachment 554995(One of the biggest glow ups from Home to DLC1. The combination of its fantastic bulk, Regen, Scald, and Flip Turn have made it a splashable defensive glue and the second best bulky water in the tier. It pretty much blanket checks most of the physical attackers in the tier with option to either fish for burns or pivot into something that can rkill said offensive threat. Matches up really nicely against rain, specially since it can stall out rain turns via Protect. I couldn’t rank it any further since it gets hard walled by Wellspring Ogre and is still exploitable by the likes of Gliscor and Gholdengo. Nevertheless, loving the new Mola.)
View attachment 555004(A bit overblown. Veil isn’t nearly as popular as it was when Bax and Firepon were in the tier. It has inconsistent match ups with the top mons, especially Gliscor who can just come in and set up hazards again cause realistically, what is Cinder gonna do back? Its still a strong pivot, burning checks like Waterpon, Tusk, Dnite, etc is always gonna be appreciated, but its matchup into Gliscor is just very mediocre, specially as hazard removal. Overrated but still obviously good.)
View attachment 555014(Clef does Clef things. Sets up rocks, Knock + T-Wave, etc. One of the best Valiant checks in the tier. Absorbing Knock and being immune to hazards is a deal breaker. Imo tho the best sets rn are SpD Tera Grass Unaware and CM. Clef is unique in being an Unaware wall with the invaluable fairy typing without Tera and having solid special bulk. Its funnily enough one of the best Bloodmoon checks in the tier. With Tera Grass it stuffs out Waterpon even without PhysD investment and can T-Wave it. More physically defensive sets even check other shit like Valiant, BU Tusk, and Kommo-o. CM sets with Tera Water or Ground make for scary wincons, specially since even without spd investment, Modest Ghold doesn’t even one shot it at full. Veil being less common also helps Clef feel less deadweight. Rain sucks tho but its not like Clef ever had a stellar Rain mu anyways. Clef is still good y’all.)
View attachment 555064(Dozo has been consistently the same viability wise since the beginning of SV OU. Checks a bunch of physical attackers, Curse wincon, easy to exploit due to a lack of recovery besides rest and very vulnerable to spikes.)
View attachment 555066(Shits on common Gliscor Spike Stacking builds while being a threatening CM sweeper with Tera. Hamurott still trashes it but Hatt matches up well with every other hazard setter in the tier. Fits on BO, Veil, and Sun. Doesn’t actually check much defensively but its utility is not to be understated. If the meta gets bulkier as a result of more defensive staples, Hatt will only get better with time.)
View attachment 555067(Kommo-o is legit great both as a sweeper and a defensive glue. Mola being such a reliable Wish passer offsets its “no recovery” weakness. Checks several mons and has its own utility with Rocks, Roar, and Taunt. Stuff like Tera Dark Gambit, non-Play Rough Waterpon, Dnite, and non-Psychic/Dgleam Manaphy. Bulletproof lets bulkier builds and HO pivot into the ghosts. Its defensive presence shines even more on HO where it uses its bulk + typing to find setup opportunities and it has a billion ways to mess the opponent up. Be it Special, Phsyical, Mixed, Scale Shot or even Salac BD cause why not. Tera Normal Boomburst with Throat Spray is also just insane. Bax leaving has only made it easier for Kommo-o to be slot onto teams, be it offensive or defensive builds. It might rise for me in like a week
View attachment 555072(Firepon provoking high usage of this thing made people realize Moth is pretty kino, even with Firepon gone. An offensive threat that checks Valiant and Ghold. Fiery Dance boosts can snowball teams hard. Most player’s special walls are Gliscor who risks getting blown up by Fiery Dance boosts or Glowking who takes 2 turns to dent Moth or run T-Wave which in that case, Substitute says hello. Specs Moth is a powerhouse, and under Sun its a demon. It tears apart many common defensive cores atm, and with Tran pretty much being nonexistent, it doesn’t even need to run Tera Ground Blast.)
View attachment 555080(Wake is still kinda stupid and they buffed it even further by giving it Knock and Scald. Now Wake can ruin Blissey and save the Hydro/Draco fun for the rest of the team. Scald is just an improved Hydro Steam outside of Sun. The admittedly decent Empoleon and Wellspring-Oger are solid checks to Wake (the latter dies to Specs Tera Dragon Draco tho lmao). Protect on Gliscor and Mola makes it easier for bulkier builds to pivot around Specs. Can you tell that DLC1 is more balanced than Home? If I’m not complaining about Wake anymore despite buffing it, they’re doing something right.)
View attachment 555081(Zama is about the same viability wise as before but slightly better since the birds aren’t nearly as common as in Home. Sub-ID absolutely shits on Gliscor and Mola. It checks the usual suspects, Gambit, Dnite, Hamurott, and also now Waterpon. Band is kinda bad cause Gliscor fucks with it, but the bread n’ butter works great as always.)

A- Rank

View attachment 555084(Sussy baka Among Us. Resisting Grass/Water while not having to worry about any of Waterpon’s coverage (except Zen Headbutt but who tf is running that?). It is the most consistent check to it while also checking other notable threats like Valiant, BB Gren, and Meow. Though Amoonguss is even more passive this time around due to both Ghold AND Gliscor completely stuffing it, letting the latter get off Spikes or Toxic for free, hence why it dropped from its A rank. Regardless, defensive grass types are proving themselves valuable in the current meta with the dominance of Waterpon. The bans of both Firepon and Bax help its case. There is another defensive Grass Type but we’ll get to it.)
View attachment 555086(Sub-CM Enam is still scary. It has more setup opportunities with how popular Gliscor is. It also still matches up well with a few top threats such as Tusk and Valiant. Has anyone tried Lefties Sub-Protect just to fuck with Blood Moon? Gets shit on Glowking but a funny concept no less. Enam was considered overrated in Home and now imo it’s appropriately rated here in A-.)
View attachment 555087(Fell off due to Gliscor and Clef but the Curse set lets it continue thriving in the meta. Don’t even bother running non-Curse Garg. Gliscor sits on you for days and you have plenty of other rockers to choose from. Curse is a strong wincon with whatever Tera it wants honestly. Tera Grass is something that popped up to check Meow and Waterpon while still checking rain. Oh and ofc the Ghost resist will never not be bad.)
View attachment 555113(Annoying as fuck to deal with on HO and though with the introduction of a few new mons, Gren remains a great cleaner in the tier and one with the HO dominating qualities it boasts. Most of what can be said about it in Hone can apply to it in DLC1 so I won’t stretch this further.)
View attachment 555116(Manaphy is a solid wallbreaker and wincon on HO and Rain. However it is not on the level of being banworthy like it was the first week for a few reasons. Heavy 4MSS, vulnerable to being rkilled, Waterpon, and more water resists being plastered onto teams in response of it. Its Tera reliant in order to not get rkilled by Meow or Pult who can hit past Screens. Not to mention the abundance of fast Encore in the tier, regardless its a solid wincon that can also break defensive teams in half, just like the good ol days.)
View attachment 555121(The loss of Bax really dropped this mon, but not by much. Veil is still good in the current metagame. Assisting powerful setup sweepers such as Gambit, Ogerpon, Manaphy, Moon, and FNAF Luna. Encore is always a plus on anything that has it, the move pretty much became the Gen 6 equivalent of Scald. The physical from Snow and its naturally high special bulk gives it opportunities to set up Veil at least 2-3 times a match. Not much else to say about it.)
View attachment 555122(Hamurott is still good, what can I say. Gliscor has taken its place as the premier spike setter and Waterpon is another water-type spike setter with an offensive presence, but Samurott is Samurott and being a hazard setter that bypasses Hatt will never not be absurd. Sporting STAB Knock and now Flip Turn, resisting both Ghold’s STABs and switching in at least one or twice. Encore cause ofc. Still a great spike setter, just overshadowed atm by the big two.)
View attachment 555129
View attachment 555130(Both Slowkings are viable interchangeably, but imo Joeking fairs better in the current meta. Not being weak to Earth Power from Bloodmoon and having a water resist without Tera is just a bit more valuable since it helps BO/Balance builds play around those mons. Not being weak to Tusk EQ is also a solid niche, but more importantly its Scald that puts its a step above its evil British twin. It is much more consistent at punishing switch ins like Gambit or Hamurott rather than relying on a predicted read. That being said, Glowking has the upper hand in other cases. Its a check to CM Valiant and Enam, absorbs T-Spikes, has a slightly stronger FS, its mu against Garg and Zapdos is also just way better for obvious reasons. I prefer Joeking but Glowking is also still good in this meta.)
View attachment 555134(Still good, just not borderline Top 5 like in Home. SpD hurt its offensive capabilities by alot, due to not being able to be worn down throughout a game and in return, Gliscor threatens with Toxic. Also Knock Off is everywhere. Despite this, Static is still fucking broken and its matchup against physical Valiant, Meow, and even Moon is nice. It can compensate for the fact Gliscor exists by running U-Turn over Volt. It also still threatens bulky waters and Zama so its offensive presence is still there, but having a prominent bulky ground type with Poison Heal be one of the best mons in the tier have toned it down.)

B+ Rank

View attachment 555141(Not alot has changed for Cress. Shits on Gliscor cause of Tera Poison. A deadly matchup fish but still a match up fish. No Bax means less offensive powerhouses that can 2HKO Cress. If you know about it from Home, you know about it in DLC.)
View attachment 555143(Not a whole lot to say about it. Glimmora is pretty much the same as Home only a bit better due to Glowking being less popular.)
View attachment 555144(Defensively, completely outclassed. Offensively however, its a menace. Sub or Taunt ruins Gliscor and it can set up SD or smack it down with…Smack Down. Can shred through many common defensive cores while also sharing Gliscor’s defensive typing. Its ranked lower because ofc, Gliscor took its defensive niche, but its no sloutch defensively. EQ/Smack Down/G-Knot still doesn’t have much in safe switch ins.)
View attachment 555145(Flame Body has pretty much kept Moltres relevant even while surrounded in a sea of bulky waters. Checking Gambit/Tusk/Ghold/Valiant all at once will never not be relevant. Even moreso now since Tusk doesn’t have time to run Head Smash or Knock when it has to deal with Gliscor’s ass. Can also pivot out of sturdy fire resists to keep up momentum or Roar out a dangerous CM Cress or Booster Moth. Bax being gone helps it a ton since its no longer punished for clicking a fire move. The abundance of Knock Off prevents me from putting it any higher tho.
View attachment 555148(Grassy Glide is back babyy. Rilla was boosted even further with Firepon and Bax being gone, but also the fact it now has priority in an aggresive metagame (Not busted priority but 70 bp priority is still good). Rilla is also notably a Grass Type and one that threatens Waterpon with priority Grassy Glide. Then it has Knock Off for the birds, Drain Punch for Gambit, and U-Turn cause you know why. Right now the sets are Terrain Extender and Band. The question is will Bulky SD Rilla make a return to SV OU? Find out on Game Theory.)
View attachment 555149(Underrated asf. Surprised it wasn’t even ranked. TL;DR, Sinistcha is a bulky physical wall, Water resist and spinblocker that spreads burns and functions as one of the better Waterpon checks due to threatening it with a burn and eating Knock via Colbur. With Tera Steel CM it is a terrifying wincon since Tusk and Gliscor can’t even one shot this physical fortress and losing the 1v1 anyways due to how broken Strength Sap is. Grass-Type Scald is very annoying to switch into, even if they don’t mind burns, that extra chip damage. Also look at this bozo Cinderace fail to 2HKO it. Hell even standard Moth doesn’t beat it if it gets up one CM.

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Sinistcha: 126-150 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 0 SpA Sinistcha Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 141-166 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatproof Sinistcha: 126-150 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Insane. Grass/Ghost is a broken type, but the only mons that had it up until now were mid asf. Its movepool is small because Matcha, Sball/Hex, CM, and Strength Sap are all it needs. Checks a bunch of things and can win games, it deserves to be respected.)
View attachment 555157(Nerfed due to the existence of Gliscor and the physically bulky Mola being able to Scald burn it. Before Sneasler can run CC/Gunk and S-Claw to cover everything, but now here comes Gliscor who threatens it or can Toxic it if Sneasler clicks Tera Flying. That being said, its still a good wincon in the tier, especially with Rillaboom buffed and better than before. I believe with time, Sneasler might rise up, or fall, who knows.)
View attachment 555158(Heavily outclassed by Gliscor but it has a couple advantages over it. Ghost resist is always invaluable in the tier. Hits a bit harder than Gliscor which is helpful cause it can hit Hatt hard on the switch with EQ. Mola being as good as it is helps with its longevity issue. Blocking Future Sight is still useful. It might drop further simply cause Gliscor does its spiking job and more.)
View attachment 555160(The Sun Is A Deadly Lazer)

B Rank

View attachment 555161View attachment 555162View attachment 555163(Clumping them together cause their viability is based on how good rain is. Waterpon is a big monkey paw for rain. You get a powerful Water/Grass type, but that Water/Grass type also has Water Absorb and shits on the whole archetype. Mola/Gliscor cores are really hard to deal with for rain, however Waterpon and Gren provide insurance for rain to deal with both bulkier builds, and cover holes in teambuilding. Also as long as HO is still strong, Rain will be a great counter team, til they bring out Waterpon.)
View attachment 555169(Hard walled by Gliscor and Balloon Gambit, but it still checks a bunch of things while sporting a Water Immunity. Gliscor is just such a dominating presence that also can lay Spikes and click Toxic, that I can’t rank it anywhere but here)
View attachment 555171(Hard walled by Ghold but its still a decent check to a bunch of things. Never use it as a Defogger. Just bait Ghold switch ins with U-Turn and pair it with 1-2 things that exploit it. Also Corv is a fake Blood Luna Check. Gangsta til it Tera Poisons.)
View attachment 555172(After 13 years, Empoleon is finally viable in OU again. All it took was Roost. Has a ton of utility in Knock, Roar, Rocks, Flip Turn, and Haze. The best Manaphy check in the tier and also shits on Cress. Also notably checks Wake. Outside of those three, Empoleon isn’t checking much else, also faces competition with other bulky waters like Mola and Waterpon. Still, I’m proud of my penguin boy.)
View attachment 555174(It was doomed to be in Bax’s shadow until the Gods gave mercy to this mammoth by vanquishing the demon ice dragon to the depths of Ubers. With it gone, Mamoswine is free to smite thee with earth and ice. Its continental force and its glacier-sized bashes are not to be taken lightly. Those whom blitz it shall regret their miscalculation as the wooly beast throws its shards of unrelentless frost and cold. Encounter carefully or meet an icy grave.)
View attachment 555175(You want a spinner that beats Ghold? Here you go. With max atk and max speed, Quaquaval always outspeeds and 2HKOs Ghold with Knock + Aqua Step/Wave Crash. In return it always lives a Sball, even with Tera in the equation. Unlike Tusk who risks getting sniped by Scarf MiR or play 50/50s with Balloon + Tera Flying. Quack’s typing also lets it match up well against most of the other hazard setters in the tier and Roost keeps it alive throughout a game. Aqua Step + Moxie can also serve as a lategame cleaner to unprepped teams, Knock Off gives Quack the extra utility to push it to being a great spinner. If you don’t need the spin, Encore bodies the Gambit mu. Better than Iron Treads lmao.)
View attachment 555176(Dirge is a bit better than in Home. More mons were introduced like Kommo-o and CM Clef which it absolutely stuffs. Other than that it’s quite overshadowed by the more consistent Molt who can check even more of the tier. Went from the best starter in OU to the worst starter in OU. Still the best starter in Ubers tho lol.)
View attachment 555177(Knock was a huge boon for it, now giving it proper utility and being able to cripple Zapdos. Bleakwind/Knock/Taunt is very annoying to play around for bulkier builds and Flying is pretty spammable atm. Doesn’t check alot of things, but it has the utility and threat factor to back it up.)
View attachment 555179(Passive, especially in this meta, but it checks a bunch of shit. See you in UU Pex.)
View attachment 555180(Mamoswine with zoomies. The biggest appeal of Weavile is its 125 speed tier blitzing past Meow, priority Ice Shard, and Low Kick for Gambit. Band Beat Up sets are better with more high base Atk mons such as Ogerpon. Knock Off means it makes progress no matter what and it can ofc clean late game.)

B- Rank

View attachment 555181(Scale Shot ironically didn’t change much about Chomp however it makes Chomp potentially threatening to offensive builds again. Free Rocky Helmet will always be valuable in a tier littered with physical powerhouses, but here is the thing. There is less competition with Bax gone but also still competition with Dnite and Moon who both check Moth and also actually resist Wellspring Oger’s STABs. Meanwhile they both perform its job much more consistently with the latter having a better speed tier. Its also not helped that its role as a breaker with Chain Chomp is now easily checked by SpD Gliscor, so it can’t even break teams as easily as it once did. Meanwhile Gliscor is just an infinitely better spike setter. So uh, sorry Chomp. Not even Scale Shot can save you.)
View attachment 555183(Imagine being a Dark type Defogger that loses to Ghold. Fucking bozo. Regardless, its still a solid ghost resist and physically defensive sponge on Balance or Stall. Checks SD Gliscor, Dnite, Tera Flying Moon, Waterpon, Meow, ur mother, alot of shit. Since Mandi is not beating Ghold, you can just forgo Defog for Foul Play, Taunt, Toxic, or U-Turn. Solid at being a physical wall but shit as a defogger.)
View attachment 555185(Not much to say about this.)
View attachment 555186(Grass/Rock with Fighting coverage is lowkey scary, even moreso than Grass/Water since there isn’t one type that just walls the type combination. Sturdy with Spikes and its high speed makes this an underrated lead, though that means no Waterpon. The defense boost from Tera gives it the upperhand over priority users such as Dnite and Gambit.)
View attachment 555187(Requires more support than the two other Ogerpons, but rewarding on the right teams. It functions similarly to Meow but with a permanent +1 Speed Boost upon Tera, which makes it a terrifying cleaner. Fortunately its locked behind a not so great offensive typing without any secondary STABs. Also faces competition with Meow, Rilla, and ofc Waterpon.)
View attachment 555188(Webs are bursting in popularity rn due to the plethora of abusers like Ghold, Waterpon, and Gambit. A bit of a mu fish tho since Cinder and Boots spam is a really tough mu.)
View attachment 555189(Tera reliant, moreso than ever, but its still decent. Tera Ice blasts Gliscor while hitting the other Grass Types. Outside of that Shocks finds itself outclassed by the vampire scorpion as a hazard setter.)
View attachment 555190(Checks Valiant, beats non-Fire Punch Dnite, Knock gives it an option to cripple the birds and Ghold. With a specific EV spread it can be a Defogger that 1v1s Ghold. Priority is also always nice in an aggressive meta. Now if only it had Roost.)
View attachment 555191(Taunt Three Attacks Volcanion destroys alot of Mola Balance builds. Steam Eruption burns are annoying. If the meta gets fatter, we might see more Volcanion, especially considering its rain mu.)
View attachment 555192(A nuke with a bit of defensive utility. Benefits from less Zapdos and also Knock Off into its moveset. Nothing else to say.)

Not gonna mention to C rank mons just cause I’m tired and their niches are pretty small to be discussed extensively. So here is the mons that suck. :)

Trash Rank

View attachment 555193(Holy shit this ass is thing. There are a billion water resists in the tier due to Waterpon who also completely outclasses it and revenge kills it easily. Imagine being a bulky water/fairy type that gets 2HKOd by Wake, with Bax gone there is straight up no reason to use this garbage.)

View attachment 555194(Poor Heatran. From Top 5 last gen to borderline trash. Everything it does, another mon does better. Rocks? Look around you. Ghost Check? Look around you. Breaker? What gen do you think this is? Gliscor ruins it. The loss of Toxic hurt this mon badly, since it has no way of dealing with certain bulky waters, especially Waterpon who outspeeds and threatens an OHKO, meanwhile bulkier variants can just heal off the 8 pp 75% accurate Magma Storms with Synthesis. Basically it can’t even be a pain in the ass to switch into anymore. Outside of Moth, this thing doesn’t check anything notable other than the ghosts and maybe Gambit. A sad day for Heatran fans.)

And thats it. Anything you all want to add?

This list more or less feels right.

 

[AM]

Took alot of time but here’s a personal VR + explanations.

S Rank

View attachment 554972(No surprise. The best defensive glue in the tier and the best hazard setter in the tier. Soft-Checks a bunch of the tier, very annoying to switch into itself, can also run an SD set, fits on every archetype including HO. Doesn’t mind hazards much while also absorbing Knock.)

View attachment 554973(You know it, we all know it. Waterpon is a powerful offensive threat but also a versatile defensive one. Ivy/Horn Leech/Knock/SD is all it needs to shred most of the tier. Defensive Waterpon has a ton of utility and with Tera or its defensive typing, checks alot of top threats such as Ghold, special Pult, Manaphy, Blood Luna (with Encore), Rain, BB Gren, Moth, Wake, etc. It can do pretty much everything. Wallbreak, set up spikes, Stallbreak, Pivot, Knock, or just win games on its own cause its Waterpon.)

S- Rank

View attachment 554975
View attachment 554976
View attachment 554977
These three don’t need an introduction. Obviously they are some of the best mons in the tier but Glis/Waterpon are just ridiculously splashable and good. Been running Sub Tusk as a way to minimize the 50/50s with Ghold and block Toxic from Gliscor, it gets the job done while Tusk itself also still hits hard. Nasty Plot Ghold is still a scary breaker while Scarf is still a strong lead against most BO leads. Been running T-Wave on Scarf which cripples Gambit and Cinder on the switch. With how strong offensive threats like Oger are, Gambit’s Sucker and solid bulky is just as valuable as before, except its slightly less dumb this time imo. Gambit is the most likely out of the three to rise to S rank for me.

A+ Rank

View attachment 554981(Its Pult, ofc its gonna be good. Ghost spam is really good rn, has a bunch of sets to play with. Specs, Hex, Band, etc. With how easy status is to spread in the tier with Gliscor around, Hex on Specs Pult sets becomes much more valuable and nasty. Lets not forget how broken Tera Dragon Draco is.)
View attachment 554982(With Bax gone from the tier and Waterpon being one of the best mons in the tier, Dnite has become both meta and anti-meta again. It has a ton of options to play with in its main DD set such as Fire Punch, Encore, Ice Spinner, Hurricane, etc. Its one of the best Waterpon checks while being able to rkill almost everything in the meta. Band is underrated due to people expecting DD only to take a shitton from its Banded 134 Attack stat. Splashable and versatile.)
View attachment 554983(Valiant is still good, what a surprise /s. Valiant is much easier to play around defensively in Teal Mask. New mons like Gliscor, and Clef are excellent Valiant checks while Amoonguss, Molt, and Zapdos still remain good in the tier. Moth rose quite alot since the few weeks Firepon was in the tier. Instead of trying to 6-0 teams, Valiant acts more as an offensive support/cleaner, basically the same as Home but less polarizing. It keeps in check a bunch of offensive sweepers such as Gambit, Bloodmoon, Manaphy, Kommo-o, etc. Even though Valiant isn’t gonna 6-0 teams, its one of the most versatile mons in the tier.)
View attachment 554984(Nobody is gonna side with me on this, but fuck it. Meowscarada is great in this meta. Band Flower Trick one shots Waterpon after rocks, without Tera. Its an incredibly annoying pivot that can rack up damage fast, its one of the fastest unboosted mons in the tier, has Low Kick for Gambit, matches up well against Gren. Play Rough smacks Kommo-o and Wake. Fast and a pain to switch into. Oh and ofc its a good hazard lead.)
View attachment 554987(Moon has been getting nothing but W’s in Teal Mask. Knock Off being a really good stab option, Bax getting banished to the shadow realm, switches into Waterpon’s STABs, has a nice Ghost resist. There is Tera Flying DD, Band, and even possibly a Boots set since Knock/Roost/U-Turn is always annoying. It also checks non-Dgleam Moth and non-Ice Beam/Dgleam Manaphy. Going from outclassed to a top mon, congrats Moon.)
View attachment 554989(This shit is broken lmao.)

A Rank

View attachment 554995(One of the biggest glow ups from Home to DLC1. The combination of its fantastic bulk, Regen, Scald, and Flip Turn have made it a splashable defensive glue and the second best bulky water in the tier. It pretty much blanket checks most of the physical attackers in the tier with option to either fish for burns or pivot into something that can rkill said offensive threat. Matches up really nicely against rain, specially since it can stall out rain turns via Protect. I couldn’t rank it any further since it gets hard walled by Wellspring Ogre and is still exploitable by the likes of Gliscor and Gholdengo. Nevertheless, loving the new Mola.)
View attachment 555004(A bit overblown. Veil isn’t nearly as popular as it was when Bax and Firepon were in the tier. It has inconsistent match ups with the top mons, especially Gliscor who can just come in and set up hazards again cause realistically, what is Cinder gonna do back? Its still a strong pivot, burning checks like Waterpon, Tusk, Dnite, etc is always gonna be appreciated, but its matchup into Gliscor is just very mediocre, specially as hazard removal. Overrated but still obviously good.)
View attachment 555014(Clef does Clef things. Sets up rocks, Knock + T-Wave, etc. One of the best Valiant checks in the tier. Absorbing Knock and being immune to hazards is a deal breaker. Imo tho the best sets rn are SpD Tera Grass Unaware and CM. Clef is unique in being an Unaware wall with the invaluable fairy typing without Tera and having solid special bulk. Its funnily enough one of the best Bloodmoon checks in the tier. With Tera Grass it stuffs out Waterpon even without PhysD investment and can T-Wave it. More physically defensive sets even check other shit like Valiant, BU Tusk, and Kommo-o. CM sets with Tera Water or Ground make for scary wincons, specially since even without spd investment, Modest Ghold doesn’t even one shot it at full. Veil being less common also helps Clef feel less deadweight. Rain sucks tho but its not like Clef ever had a stellar Rain mu anyways. Clef is still good y’all.)
View attachment 555064(Dozo has been consistently the same viability wise since the beginning of SV OU. Checks a bunch of physical attackers, Curse wincon, easy to exploit due to a lack of recovery besides rest and very vulnerable to spikes.)
View attachment 555066(Shits on common Gliscor Spike Stacking builds while being a threatening CM sweeper with Tera. Hamurott still trashes it but Hatt matches up well with every other hazard setter in the tier. Fits on BO, Veil, and Sun. Doesn’t actually check much defensively but its utility is not to be understated. If the meta gets bulkier as a result of more defensive staples, Hatt will only get better with time.)
View attachment 555067(Kommo-o is legit great both as a sweeper and a defensive glue. Mola being such a reliable Wish passer offsets its “no recovery” weakness. Checks several mons and has its own utility with Rocks, Roar, and Taunt. Stuff like Tera Dark Gambit, non-Play Rough Waterpon, Dnite, and non-Psychic/Dgleam Manaphy. Bulletproof lets bulkier builds and HO pivot into the ghosts. Its defensive presence shines even more on HO where it uses its bulk + typing to find setup opportunities and it has a billion ways to mess the opponent up. Be it Special, Phsyical, Mixed, Scale Shot or even Salac BD cause why not. Tera Normal Boomburst with Throat Spray is also just insane. Bax leaving has only made it easier for Kommo-o to be slot onto teams, be it offensive or defensive builds. It might rise for me in like a week
View attachment 555072(Firepon provoking high usage of this thing made people realize Moth is pretty kino, even with Firepon gone. An offensive threat that checks Valiant and Ghold. Fiery Dance boosts can snowball teams hard. Most player’s special walls are Gliscor who risks getting blown up by Fiery Dance boosts or Glowking who takes 2 turns to dent Moth or run T-Wave which in that case, Substitute says hello. Specs Moth is a powerhouse, and under Sun its a demon. It tears apart many common defensive cores atm, and with Tran pretty much being nonexistent, it doesn’t even need to run Tera Ground Blast.)
View attachment 555080(Wake is still kinda stupid and they buffed it even further by giving it Knock and Scald. Now Wake can ruin Blissey and save the Hydro/Draco fun for the rest of the team. Scald is just an improved Hydro Steam outside of Sun. The admittedly decent Empoleon and Wellspring-Oger are solid checks to Wake (the latter dies to Specs Tera Dragon Draco tho lmao). Protect on Gliscor and Mola makes it easier for bulkier builds to pivot around Specs. Can you tell that DLC1 is more balanced than Home? If I’m not complaining about Wake anymore despite buffing it, they’re doing something right.)
View attachment 555081(Zama is about the same viability wise as before but slightly better since the birds aren’t nearly as common as in Home. Sub-ID absolutely shits on Gliscor and Mola. It checks the usual suspects, Gambit, Dnite, Hamurott, and also now Waterpon. Band is kinda bad cause Gliscor fucks with it, but the bread n’ butter works great as always.)

A- Rank

View attachment 555084(Sussy baka Among Us. Resisting Grass/Water while not having to worry about any of Waterpon’s coverage (except Zen Headbutt but who tf is running that?). It is the most consistent check to it while also checking other notable threats like Valiant, BB Gren, and Meow. Though Amoonguss is even more passive this time around due to both Ghold AND Gliscor completely stuffing it, letting the latter get off Spikes or Toxic for free, hence why it dropped from its A rank. Regardless, defensive grass types are proving themselves valuable in the current meta with the dominance of Waterpon. The bans of both Firepon and Bax help its case. There is another defensive Grass Type but we’ll get to it.)
View attachment 555086(Sub-CM Enam is still scary. It has more setup opportunities with how popular Gliscor is. It also still matches up well with a few top threats such as Tusk and Valiant. Has anyone tried Lefties Sub-Protect just to fuck with Blood Moon? Gets shit on Glowking but a funny concept no less. Enam was considered overrated in Home and now imo it’s appropriately rated here in A-.)
View attachment 555087(Fell off due to Gliscor and Clef but the Curse set lets it continue thriving in the meta. Don’t even bother running non-Curse Garg. Gliscor sits on you for days and you have plenty of other rockers to choose from. Curse is a strong wincon with whatever Tera it wants honestly. Tera Grass is something that popped up to check Meow and Waterpon while still checking rain. Oh and ofc the Ghost resist will never not be bad.)
View attachment 555113(Annoying as fuck to deal with on HO and though with the introduction of a few new mons, Gren remains a great cleaner in the tier and one with the HO dominating qualities it boasts. Most of what can be said about it in Hone can apply to it in DLC1 so I won’t stretch this further.)
View attachment 555116(Manaphy is a solid wallbreaker and wincon on HO and Rain. However it is not on the level of being banworthy like it was the first week for a few reasons. Heavy 4MSS, vulnerable to being rkilled, Waterpon, and more water resists being plastered onto teams in response of it. Its Tera reliant in order to not get rkilled by Meow or Pult who can hit past Screens. Not to mention the abundance of fast Encore in the tier, regardless its a solid wincon that can also break defensive teams in half, just like the good ol days.)
View attachment 555121(The loss of Bax really dropped this mon, but not by much. Veil is still good in the current metagame. Assisting powerful setup sweepers such as Gambit, Ogerpon, Manaphy, Moon, and FNAF Luna. Encore is always a plus on anything that has it, the move pretty much became the Gen 6 equivalent of Scald. The physical from Snow and its naturally high special bulk gives it opportunities to set up Veil at least 2-3 times a match. Not much else to say about it.)
View attachment 555122(Hamurott is still good, what can I say. Gliscor has taken its place as the premier spike setter and Waterpon is another water-type spike setter with an offensive presence, but Samurott is Samurott and being a hazard setter that bypasses Hatt will never not be absurd. Sporting STAB Knock and now Flip Turn, resisting both Ghold’s STABs and switching in at least one or twice. Encore cause ofc. Still a great spike setter, just overshadowed atm by the big two.)
View attachment 555129
View attachment 555130(Both Slowkings are viable interchangeably, but imo Joeking fairs better in the current meta. Not being weak to Earth Power from Bloodmoon and having a water resist without Tera is just a bit more valuable since it helps BO/Balance builds play around those mons. Not being weak to Tusk EQ is also a solid niche, but more importantly its Scald that puts its a step above its evil British twin. It is much more consistent at punishing switch ins like Gambit or Hamurott rather than relying on a predicted read. That being said, Glowking has the upper hand in other cases. Its a check to CM Valiant and Enam, absorbs T-Spikes, has a slightly stronger FS, its mu against Garg and Zapdos is also just way better for obvious reasons. I prefer Joeking but Glowking is also still good in this meta.)
View attachment 555134(Still good, just not borderline Top 5 like in Home. SpD hurt its offensive capabilities by alot, due to not being able to be worn down throughout a game and in return, Gliscor threatens with Toxic. Also Knock Off is everywhere. Despite this, Static is still fucking broken and its matchup against physical Valiant, Meow, and even Moon is nice. It can compensate for the fact Gliscor exists by running U-Turn over Volt. It also still threatens bulky waters and Zama so its offensive presence is still there, but having a prominent bulky ground type with Poison Heal be one of the best mons in the tier have toned it down.)

B+ Rank

View attachment 555141(Not alot has changed for Cress. Shits on Gliscor cause of Tera Poison. A deadly matchup fish but still a match up fish. No Bax means less offensive powerhouses that can 2HKO Cress. If you know about it from Home, you know about it in DLC.)
View attachment 555143(Not a whole lot to say about it. Glimmora is pretty much the same as Home only a bit better due to Glowking being less popular.)
View attachment 555144(Defensively, completely outclassed. Offensively however, its a menace. Sub or Taunt ruins Gliscor and it can set up SD or smack it down with…Smack Down. Can shred through many common defensive cores while also sharing Gliscor’s defensive typing. Its ranked lower because ofc, Gliscor took its defensive niche, but its no sloutch defensively. EQ/Smack Down/G-Knot still doesn’t have much in safe switch ins.)
View attachment 555145(Flame Body has pretty much kept Moltres relevant even while surrounded in a sea of bulky waters. Checking Gambit/Tusk/Ghold/Valiant all at once will never not be relevant. Even moreso now since Tusk doesn’t have time to run Head Smash or Knock when it has to deal with Gliscor’s ass. Can also pivot out of sturdy fire resists to keep up momentum or Roar out a dangerous CM Cress or Booster Moth. Bax being gone helps it a ton since its no longer punished for clicking a fire move. The abundance of Knock Off prevents me from putting it any higher tho.
View attachment 555148(Grassy Glide is back babyy. Rilla was boosted even further with Firepon and Bax being gone, but also the fact it now has priority in an aggresive metagame (Not busted priority but 70 bp priority is still good). Rilla is also notably a Grass Type and one that threatens Waterpon with priority Grassy Glide. Then it has Knock Off for the birds, Drain Punch for Gambit, and U-Turn cause you know why. Right now the sets are Terrain Extender and Band. The question is will Bulky SD Rilla make a return to SV OU? Find out on Game Theory.)
View attachment 555149(Underrated asf. Surprised it wasn’t even ranked. TL;DR, Sinistcha is a bulky physical wall, Water resist and spinblocker that spreads burns and functions as one of the better Waterpon checks due to threatening it with a burn and eating Knock via Colbur. With Tera Steel CM it is a terrifying wincon since Tusk and Gliscor can’t even one shot this physical fortress and losing the 1v1 anyways due to how broken Strength Sap is. Grass-Type Scald is very annoying to switch into, even if they don’t mind burns, that extra chip damage. Also look at this bozo Cinderace fail to 2HKO it. Hell even standard Moth doesn’t beat it if it gets up one CM.

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Sinistcha: 126-150 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 0 SpA Sinistcha Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Iron Moth: 141-166 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. +2 252 HP / 0 SpD Heatproof Sinistcha: 126-150 (36.4 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Insane. Grass/Ghost is a broken type, but the only mons that had it up until now were mid asf. Its movepool is small because Matcha, Sball/Hex, CM, and Strength Sap are all it needs. Checks a bunch of things and can win games, it deserves to be respected.)
View attachment 555157(Nerfed due to the existence of Gliscor and the physically bulky Mola being able to Scald burn it. Before Sneasler can run CC/Gunk and S-Claw to cover everything, but now here comes Gliscor who threatens it or can Toxic it if Sneasler clicks Tera Flying. That being said, its still a good wincon in the tier, especially with Rillaboom buffed and better than before. I believe with time, Sneasler might rise up, or fall, who knows.)
View attachment 555158(Heavily outclassed by Gliscor but it has a couple advantages over it. Ghost resist is always invaluable in the tier. Hits a bit harder than Gliscor which is helpful cause it can hit Hatt hard on the switch with EQ. Mola being as good as it is helps with its longevity issue. Blocking Future Sight is still useful. It might drop further simply cause Gliscor does its spiking job and more.)
View attachment 555160(The Sun Is A Deadly Lazer)

B Rank

View attachment 555161View attachment 555162View attachment 555163(Clumping them together cause their viability is based on how good rain is. Waterpon is a big monkey paw for rain. You get a powerful Water/Grass type, but that Water/Grass type also has Water Absorb and shits on the whole archetype. Mola/Gliscor cores are really hard to deal with for rain, however Waterpon and Gren provide insurance for rain to deal with both bulkier builds, and cover holes in teambuilding. Also as long as HO is still strong, Rain will be a great counter team, til they bring out Waterpon.)
View attachment 555169(Hard walled by Gliscor and Balloon Gambit, but it still checks a bunch of things while sporting a Water Immunity. Gliscor is just such a dominating presence that also can lay Spikes and click Toxic, that I can’t rank it anywhere but here)
View attachment 555171(Hard walled by Ghold but its still a decent check to a bunch of things. Never use it as a Defogger. Just bait Ghold switch ins with U-Turn and pair it with 1-2 things that exploit it. Also Corv is a fake Blood Luna Check. Gangsta til it Tera Poisons.)
View attachment 555172(After 13 years, Empoleon is finally viable in OU again. All it took was Roost. Has a ton of utility in Knock, Roar, Rocks, Flip Turn, and Haze. The best Manaphy check in the tier and also shits on Cress. Also notably checks Wake. Outside of those three, Empoleon isn’t checking much else, also faces competition with other bulky waters like Mola and Waterpon. Still, I’m proud of my penguin boy.)
View attachment 555174(It was doomed to be in Bax’s shadow until the Gods gave mercy to this mammoth by vanquishing the demon ice dragon to the depths of Ubers. With it gone, Mamoswine is free to smite thee with earth and ice. Its continental force and its glacier-sized bashes are not to be taken lightly. Those whom blitz it shall regret their miscalculation as the wooly beast throws its shards of unrelentless frost and cold. Encounter carefully or meet an icy grave.)
View attachment 555175(You want a spinner that beats Ghold? Here you go. With max atk and max speed, Quaquaval always outspeeds and 2HKOs Ghold with Knock + Aqua Step/Wave Crash. In return it always lives a Sball, even with Tera in the equation. Unlike Tusk who risks getting sniped by Scarf MiR or play 50/50s with Balloon + Tera Flying. Quack’s typing also lets it match up well against most of the other hazard setters in the tier and Roost keeps it alive throughout a game. Aqua Step + Moxie can also serve as a lategame cleaner to unprepped teams, Knock Off gives Quack the extra utility to push it to being a great spinner. If you don’t need the spin, Encore bodies the Gambit mu. Better than Iron Treads lmao.)
View attachment 555176(Dirge is a bit better than in Home. More mons were introduced like Kommo-o and CM Clef which it absolutely stuffs. Other than that it’s quite overshadowed by the more consistent Molt who can check even more of the tier. Went from the best starter in OU to the worst starter in OU. Still the best starter in Ubers tho lol.)
View attachment 555177(Knock was a huge boon for it, now giving it proper utility and being able to cripple Zapdos. Bleakwind/Knock/Taunt is very annoying to play around for bulkier builds and Flying is pretty spammable atm. Doesn’t check alot of things, but it has the utility and threat factor to back it up.)
View attachment 555179(Passive, especially in this meta, but it checks a bunch of shit. See you in UU Pex.)
View attachment 555180(Mamoswine with zoomies. The biggest appeal of Weavile is its 125 speed tier blitzing past Meow, priority Ice Shard, and Low Kick for Gambit. Band Beat Up sets are better with more high base Atk mons such as Ogerpon. Knock Off means it makes progress no matter what and it can ofc clean late game.)

B- Rank

View attachment 555181(Scale Shot ironically didn’t change much about Chomp however it makes Chomp potentially threatening to offensive builds again. Free Rocky Helmet will always be valuable in a tier littered with physical powerhouses, but here is the thing. There is less competition with Bax gone but also still competition with Dnite and Moon who both check Moth and also actually resist Wellspring Oger’s STABs. Meanwhile they both perform its job much more consistently with the latter having a better speed tier. Its also not helped that its role as a breaker with Chain Chomp is now easily checked by SpD Gliscor, so it can’t even break teams as easily as it once did. Meanwhile Gliscor is just an infinitely better spike setter. So uh, sorry Chomp. Not even Scale Shot can save you.)
View attachment 555183(Imagine being a Dark type Defogger that loses to Ghold. Fucking bozo. Regardless, its still a solid ghost resist and physically defensive sponge on Balance or Stall. Checks SD Gliscor, Dnite, Tera Flying Moon, Waterpon, Meow, ur mother, alot of shit. Since Mandi is not beating Ghold, you can just forgo Defog for Foul Play, Taunt, Toxic, or U-Turn. Solid at being a physical wall but shit as a defogger.)
View attachment 555185(Not much to say about this.)
View attachment 555186(Grass/Rock with Fighting coverage is lowkey scary, even moreso than Grass/Water since there isn’t one type that just walls the type combination. Sturdy with Spikes and its high speed makes this an underrated lead, though that means no Waterpon. The defense boost from Tera gives it the upperhand over priority users such as Dnite and Gambit.)
View attachment 555187(Requires more support than the two other Ogerpons, but rewarding on the right teams. It functions similarly to Meow but with a permanent +1 Speed Boost upon Tera, which makes it a terrifying cleaner. Fortunately its locked behind a not so great offensive typing without any secondary STABs. Also faces competition with Meow, Rilla, and ofc Waterpon.)
View attachment 555188(Webs are bursting in popularity rn due to the plethora of abusers like Ghold, Waterpon, and Gambit. A bit of a mu fish tho since Cinder and Boots spam is a really tough mu.)
View attachment 555189(Tera reliant, moreso than ever, but its still decent. Tera Ice blasts Gliscor while hitting the other Grass Types. Outside of that Shocks finds itself outclassed by the vampire scorpion as a hazard setter.)
View attachment 555190(Checks Valiant, beats non-Fire Punch Dnite, Knock gives it an option to cripple the birds and Ghold. With a specific EV spread it can be a Defogger that 1v1s Ghold. Priority is also always nice in an aggressive meta. Now if only it had Roost.)
View attachment 555191(Taunt Three Attacks Volcanion destroys alot of Mola Balance builds. Steam Eruption burns are annoying. If the meta gets fatter, we might see more Volcanion, especially considering its rain mu.)
View attachment 555192(A nuke with a bit of defensive utility. Benefits from less Zapdos and also Knock Off into its moveset. Nothing else to say.)

Not gonna mention to C rank mons just cause I’m tired and their niches are pretty small to be discussed extensively. So here is the mons that suck. :)

Trash Rank

View attachment 555193(Holy shit this ass is thing. There are a billion water resists in the tier due to Waterpon who also completely outclasses it and revenge kills it easily. Imagine being a bulky water/fairy type that gets 2HKOd by Wake, with Bax gone there is straight up no reason to use this garbage.)

View attachment 555194(Poor Heatran. From Top 5 last gen to borderline trash. Everything it does, another mon does better. Rocks? Look around you. Ghost Check? Look around you. Breaker? What gen do you think this is? Gliscor ruins it. The loss of Toxic hurt this mon badly, since it has no way of dealing with certain bulky waters, especially Waterpon who outspeeds and threatens an OHKO, meanwhile bulkier variants can just heal off the 8 pp 75% accurate Magma Storms with Synthesis. Basically it can’t even be a pain in the ass to switch into anymore. Outside of Moth, this thing doesn’t check anything notable other than the ghosts and maybe Gambit. A sad day for Heatran fans.)

And thats it. Anything you all want to add?

Good effort list, Ribombee and Glimm should be higher though and I think Kommo-O offensively kind of sucks/overrated and is placed too high here. The B's get a bit muddy but no one should care about the B's as much as the higher stuff.

 

[Eeveeto]

Before calling Azumarill Trash, remember it now has Knock Off. What does that mean? Banded Tera Dark Huge Power Knock Off in Trick Room, of course. Yes, Crawdaunt exists, but this guy is much bulkier and with a better defensive typing
(the moment an otherwise decent Water Fairy Mon gets Recover, it goes to S/A+rank, that typing is that good) than Crawdaunt. I was an Azumarill hater at the beginning of this gen, but now I wouldn't discard the water bunny full of joy yet.

 

[mothra_moth]

Alright, since everyone seems kind of distracted with Gholdengo, dropping Darkrai and if Chilly Ninetales is actually good (which come tf on, it is), I thought I’d unearth a horror of metagame past with some added updates:

ARCTIC MONOCLAW!
https://pokepast.es/19b93e1ae2d02d4e
​

- The team’s primary support system. Sets Aurora Veil, hits Waterpon and Gliscor with Freeze Dry, Encores anything that happens to click into a bad move, you already know what this thing does.

- The titular Quick Draw / Quick Claw Pokémon. None of the Ogerpon forms want to switch into it, checks Sneasler pretty well, checks a common annoyance to Veil teams in Spore Breloom and also forces Cinderace and Moltres to think twice before doing anything. Tusk and Valiant still hate it just as much as they did before.

- Remember how everyone’s favourite cocaine bear had no longevity with Flame Orb and without it, it had middling power? All it took for those issues to be fixed was seemingly a transformation into a cyborg zombie (with added Recovery, broken STAB thanks to Mind’s Eye + Gigaton Boomburst Blood Moon and a shift towards becoming a Calm Mind tank). Now, nothing besides Blissey can come in safely on this guy with the busted Mind’s Eye + Blood Moon combo. Gholdengo doesn’t want anything to do with matching up against it, Corviknight doesn’t handle this version of the cocaine bear at all and anything that doesn’t have good special bulk while also resisting it at the same time gets completely mauled. Not to mention Quick Claw gives it a way to jumpscare everything faster than it without resorting to Tera Fighting Vaccuum Wave. Tera Flying allows it to resist Grass and Fighting moves so it can keep on nuking shit. It’s either you die instantly, you get brutually murdered or you get crippled (and die anyways) with this edgy bear.

- It’s just the usual Bulky Kingambit set but Sucker Punch is replaced with Tera Blast and Leftovers is replaced with Quick Claw. Now Fairy-powered Kingambit reverse sweeps are even more bullshit!

- Tail Glow, Water STAB, a colourful selection of Ice/Grass/Fairy coverage and the classic Mythical/Mew statline of 100 across the board is still OP asf behind screens. Now with a 30% chance to make your opponent immediately forfeit move first every turn! What else am I supposed to say? The thing’s powerful no matter what team it gets put on.

- Those SubLeftovers sets for the ice horse were pretty fun back in Gen 8, although Ice really isn’t a durable typing… But with the added Defense boost that Snow gives now along with ’s Aurora Veil making its raw bulk even better and Quick Claw, this joke of a Legendary becomes more scary than funny. I mean, it has the same Attack stat as Baxcalibur, the same Ice STAB, ground coverage in High Horsepower, Close Combat as a coverage option and even a Moxie clone. Tera Fighting for making the lives of any opposing Kingambit that much harder and actually giving yourself resistances of some sort.

As an alternative, you could use Iron Hands since its just got much better natural bulk factoring in typing, better Dual-STAB and still has Ice Punch for any annoying Ground types that come its way.

It’s basically a Screens Bulky Offense team but with extra RNG. Delibird Heart was a revolutionary with the original Monoclaw, so I thought I’d give it a bit of an update.

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Don’t blame me if Quick Claw actually gets banned. I’m just a messenger lol

this team is so fucking hillarious to use it's unreal.

slowbro-g can handle whole teams by itself ESPECIALLY with veil support. it's such a nasty thing to use i feel kinda dirty using this team lol

(it activated 4 times in a row)

im forever low ladder but this team is FUNNY

ban quick claw

there is no excuse for this RNG dependent item remaining here, where the 20% chance can decide whole games

 

[Pokemon Trainer: Shadow]

Good effort list, Ribombee and Glimm should be higher though and I think Kommo-O offensively kind of sucks/overrated and is placed too high here. The B's get a bit muddy but no one should care about the B's as much as the higher stuff.

I think Kommo-O is way easier to get started than Garchomp. I wouldn't put it on A tier either, but it feels like a solid B+ mon.

 

[Cuddly]

Wait I thought Quick Claw was already banned??

 

[yomaalt]

Anyone who says gg after losing to kingambit is lying.

Wym? Me predicting your ass with three tows on your subs then hitting you with the sucker on the attack is peak mons skill, just get better and predict me better than I could predict you. GG cause I definitively should've lost that game like 8 turns ago BUT i won cause I simply played it off as a tactical sack for the free gambit buff. GG

 

[awyp]

Wait I thought Quick Claw was already banned??

Nope it isn't, there hasn't been any action on it since the council didn't think the survey results showed it to be problematic.

 

[YubelVT]

Nope it isn't, there hasn't been any action on it since the council didn't think the survey results showed it to be problematic.

quick claw isn't inherently broken or overpowered or anything, it's just really fucking annoying

 

[YubelVT]

Wym? Me predicting your ass with three tows on your subs then hitting you with the sucker on the attack is peak mons skill, just get better and predict me better than I could predict you. GG cause I definitively should've lost that game like 8 turns ago BUT i won cause I simply played it off as a tactical sack for the free gambit buff. GG

counterpoint: you won with kingambit in this exchange

 

[Just A Shroom God]

Good effort list, Ribombee and Glimm should be higher though and I think Kommo-O offensively kind of sucks/overrated and is placed too high here. The B's get a bit muddy but no one should care about the B's as much as the higher stuff.

please tell me what you are using to deal with Throat Spray Kommo-O besides Clef. PLEASE. I'm begging you.

 

[ZannaBianca]

please tell me what you are using to deal with Throat Spray Kommo-O besides Clef. PLEASE. I'm begging you.

Skeledirge probably would be fine too, as well as Tera Ghost/Fairy Ting-Lu or Tera Blissey. If you feel particularly spiteful you could also go with Tera Fairy Soundproof Kommo-O

Edit: Encore would be fun too

 

[yomaalt]

please tell me what you are using to deal with Throat Spray Kommo-O besides Clef. PLEASE. I'm begging you.

Prolly opposing soundproof kommo
Dirge
252 SpA Tera Normal Kommo-o Boomburst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 138-163 (29.8 - 35.2%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Iron Valiant Close Combat vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Normal Kommo-o: 218-258 (74.9 - 88.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
CB zam can prolly rkill with like tera steel/ghost or smth

Iunno haven't seen bro often

 

[MattC (Banned)]

Anyone who says gg after losing to kingambit is lying. There's just no fucking reason to keep this shitstain in the tier. Excise the problems with the meta, starting with gambit

Behold, a valid argument. However, It has been stated before:

OU Leader Finchinator USED TO BE #SmogonBigStall pokemon icon of Toxapex -- hence the never banning of it. But then once Smogon Big Stall fell off, he reverted to Kingambit :o

And if you think about it, banning everything overpowered (quote on quote) and then just... leaving everything else. It's almost like the people don't actually want to have a singular overpowered metagame presence... no wonder every metagame is so stale :/

Forget about having fun -- what's the fun in a stalemate? No I 100% dont want Firepon or Baxcalibur legal, but m a y b e Kingambit can have a shot as to not have the same generic 20 on every team comp. I just want some metagame deviation man! Is that too much to ask for?

 

[YubelVT]

Behold, a valid argument. However, It has been stated before:

OU Leader Finchinator USED TO BE #SmogonBigStall pokemon icon of Toxapex -- hence the never banning of it. But then once Smogon Big Stall fell off, he reverted to Kingambit :o

And if you think about it, banning everything overpowered (quote on quote) and then just... leaving everything else. It's almost like the people don't actually want to have a singular overpowered metagame presence... no wonder every metagame is so stale :/

Forget about having fun -- what's the fun in a stalemate? No I 100% dont want Firepon or Baxcalibur legal, but m a y b e Kingambit can have a shot as to not have the same generic 20 on every team comp. I just want some metagame deviation man! Is that too much to ask for?

ok but you can have metagame deviation while also having an actually good metagame (see gen 3-7 with maybe an exception of 5)

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

ok but you can have metagame deviation while also having an actually good metagame (see gen 3-7)

i think you could narrow that to 4-6. 3 has very little deviation and 7 is not actually a good meta

 

[YubelVT]

gamers I miss using hisuian zoroark to delete great tusks can we go back to the state of OU pre-hisuian samurott just for me :smile: