Guess we know why they call it the Hearthflame Mask now -- it won't show any mercy to anyone's soul. It will use it's sheer force to brutally murder everything in it's way
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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We cannot really speculate atm. The only thing we have to go on is that Khu has been teasing it with the Caduceus and White Tree Hollow.
Sorry if this is obvious, but is Ogerpon's Masked Forms gaining a 1.2x boost on every move really such a big deal? It's essentially just weaker, recoil-less Life Orb in exchange for what's essentially a dead item slot otherwise (if you don't Tera, which obviously isn't guaranteed every match).
Just a theory Bulky Sweeper Manaphy set
Manaphy @ Covert Cloak/Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Take Heart (CM + It heals status)
- Scald
Absolutely owns anything that's not HO or Water Absorb.
Manaphy @ Covert Cloak/Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Take Heart (CM + It heals status)
- Scald
Absolutely owns anything that's not HO or Water Absorb.
i genuinely think i might be right about the name here
252 Atk Tera Rock Ogerpon-Cornerstone Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 148-176 (39.8 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Ice Body recovery
252 Atk Hard Stone Tera Rock Ogerpon-Cornerstone Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 178-210 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO after Ice Body recovery
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Ogerpon-Hearthflame Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 330-390 (76 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Meadow Plate Mold Breaker Ogerpon-Hearthflame Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 396-468 (91.2 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Ogerpon-Hearthflame Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 264-312 (77.4 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Charcoal Ogerpon-Hearthflame Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 318-374 (93.2 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Literally turns a max roll into a min roll my guy, it's insane.
that's how it will work. smogon has always tiered forms individually. that's why skymin is banned but landmin isn't, why the rotom forms span basically every tier, etc
Consider the following.
- A x1.2 multiplier to all its Attacks means that Ogerpon has an effective Atk stat of 154, the same a Mewtwo’s without a boost.
252 SpA Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 367-433 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Ogerpon-Cornerstone Ivy Cudgel vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 367-433 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- The forms that required an item were already considered good because while it doesn’t have Fezandipiti tier bad movepool it still has coverage without the Mask changing Ivy Cudleg’s typing. So in addition to gaining good Water or Fire or Rock coverage, you gain a x1.2 to all your moves.
What's the defensive counterplay to sd breloom with loaded dice bullet seed,tera fire tera blast, and rock tomb? What's the defensive counter play to +1 protosynthesis brute bonnet with loaded dice bullet seed, tera fire tera blast and crunch? What's the defensive counterplay to mixed hoopa-u with thunderbolt/psychic/knock/drain punch? What's the defensive counterplay to the original ursaluna with max speed, besides fast corviknight with iron defense (drifblim is not the answer).... what's the defensive counterplay to mold breaker sd haxorus? And so on and so forth...
Some mons are not meant to be answered defensively,let alone by a wide pool of defensive mons (rather they're meant to get revenged killed). For fire ogerpon in particular, defensive counterplay is limited to 1) tera fire on bulky mons like corvi (tera fire corvi was already a thing pre-dlc on stall teams to answer brute bonnet in the sun) or dozo, 2)bulky tauros-paldea-fire (with either resttalk or wish support from mola).
Now imagine not having tera around, how much more difficult would it be to cover such powerful offensive threats. I agree that tera has many flaws and awards offensive mons a lot of advantages, but it's also often the most prolific (or worse, the only) way to cover as many offensive options as possible defensively. And that's why any argument that with tera banned we would have more mons available is simply not true.Sure some of the banned ones would be unbanned, but others that would be too much for the tier without tera, would take their place in ubers
Isn't this 120*1.2 which is 144? And Mewtwo's Attack is 110, its Special Attack is 154. 144 is 1 point below Lando-T and Baxcalibur.
If you multiple stats, you are also multiplying the IVs, EVs, and nature as well. This is why Huge Power Pokemon aren’t garbage since otherwise Amzumarill would have only 100 Atk.
But usually its better to apply the damage bonuses to the moves since they have the same effect as multiplying the stat, minus a few unimportant nuances.
Those calcs do look insane lol, I see what you guys mean now
Hi everyone,
I was wondering, what mons do you use to check Heatran?
I have been struggling with the pokemon a lot recently haha it just seems very hard to switch into, thats all
I was wondering, what mons do you use to check Heatran?
I have been struggling with the pokemon a lot recently haha it just seems very hard to switch into, thats all
EVs exist, so that can influence the x1.2 multiplier. With a jolly nature and 252 atk evs, ogrepon hits 339, multiply it by 1.2 and it's about 407, effectively, 154 base atk.
Guts AV Conkeldur switches in fairly well and stays healthy with Drain Punch. If it chooses Lava Plume or Will-o-Wisp you get a free +1 and you can smack the next thing with a Knock/CC/EQ.Hi everyone,
I was wondering, what mons do you use to check Heatran?
I have been struggling with the pokemon a lot recently haha it just seems very hard to switch into, thats all
252+ Atk Choice Band Lokix Axe Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 346-408 (107.1 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
adamant outspeeds timid offensive tran
Hearthflame Ogerpon or Cornerstone Ogerpon?
For the former Dragons and Fires like Dragonite and Moltres do well, and for Cornerstone you do have Okidogi and Kommo-o (though has to be cautious against Play Rough which won’t be used often due to Steel types).
Aside from the obvious Tera Normal Boomburst, what other sets are people running for Kommo-o?
The best last move for Hearthflame is definitely play rough which smashes dragonite etc thanks to mold breaker bypassing multiscale. Moltres and other bulky fires just lose if it teras as they can't really damage it and get 2hkoed after setup. The only answers so far to me seem like revenge killing it or praying it misses power whip
252 Atk Expert Belt Ogerpon-Cornerstone Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Okidogi: 264-312 (69.4 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Expert Belt Ogerpon-Cornerstone Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Kommo-o: 134-158 (37.8 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Expert Belt Ogerpon-Cornerstone Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing-Galar: 127-151 (38 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
This thing is a demon I genuinely don't know why you'd ever run Play Rough over Zen if you were gonna run coverage for fighting. Also you can just U-turn for free on all of them.
Oh so Hearthflame Ogerpon is just Chi-Yu again huh. Except it's faster and can't hold an item.
+1 252+ Atk Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Protosynthesis Great Tusk in Sun: 234-276 (53.9 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
You killed the Fish, but not the idea...
Better start running Garg again...
+1 252+ Atk Tera Fire Ogerpon-Hearthflame-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Protosynthesis Great Tusk in Sun: 234-276 (53.9 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
You killed the Fish, but not the idea...
Better start running Garg again...
Wellspring Ogerpon starts gaining stonks
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