Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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Based on the new info, Ogerpon and its forms went from pretty serviceable to kind of absurd.
Like that x1.2 to all moves means its Atk stat is effectively 154, being on par with Mewtwo.

I think the comparison to Mewtwo's stats is a bit flawed, since items make a huge difference and you're comparing Ogerpon's post-item strength with Mewtwo's no-item strength.

With that being said, this discovery still makes Ogerpon a lot stronger in OU. Before now, the alternate forms were essentially itemless, which was a huge drawback. Now, you get to run an item that is somewhat comparable to Life Orb (20% Damage Boost vs 30% Damage Boost + Recoil). Granted, not being able to have free choice in the item you run is still a drawback (sometimes you might want Boots or Choice Band or Leftovers or something), but it's a lot better to be forced into a specific decent item than being forced into no item.
 
Based on the new info, Ogerpon and its forms went from pretty serviceable to kind of absurd.
Like that x1.2 to all moves means its Atk stat is effectively 154, being on par with Mewtwo.
*glances at Zacian-C's 150 Attack* You've got to be kidding. They nerfed Zacian then made a Pokemon just as strong that has an Unnerfed Intrepid Sword?! At least it's still weaker than pre-nerf Zacian-C, slower, and needs to Tera for Intrepid Sword... -_-
 
Remember how just yesterday everyone was like it was refreshing Ogerpon was just really good and not some super overtunned broken Pokémon. Today we find out it basically has a built in life orb inside it’s mask.

That’s so huge for all the forms.

Reminds me a bit of how Booster energy was found out to be 1.3x for all stats except in speed where it was indeed 1.5x. Making booster mons a bit less absurd
 
It's more like a better expert belt if it's a 1.2x boost and Teal Mask receives no boosts, right? I'm okay with that, a required item to get a form should give bonuses because of the opportunity cost of running no other items. The assorted orbs and mega stones did the same.
 
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Aside from the 1.2x boost, Ogerpon's biggest feature is its signature move, Ivy Cudgel. Because of the mask, Ivy Cudgel becomes a 120bp, non contact move with 100% accuracy and increased Crit ratio. It is super spammable and doesn't have to worry about Static/Rocky Helmet etc

Ogerpon is also blessed with good coverage. Play Rough for dragons who resist it's STAB, knock off for Glowking and general utility, Power Whip for wallbreaking, Trailblaze for speed boost, Horn Leech for recovery, and U-turn for pivot. it also has support moves like leech Seed, spiky shield, Taunt, Encore and Synthesis.

While the fire Ogerpon is the most explicitly threatening form, the water and rock versions are also pretty decent, especially if you decide to opt for a more supportive role. Water form's water immunity allows it to prevent flip turn spam, and well as immunity to scald, aside from being a dangerous wallbreaker in rain. Rock form's Sturdy can be situationally useful, aside from special defense boost in sand. And of course, Fire form's Mold Breaker allows it to break past Unaware users and Multiscale Dragonite, while being a nuke in Sun (and a great partner to waking Wake). The base form only has mono STAB and no 1.2x boost, nut it can also hold item.

Contrary to what some may think, Ogerpon isn't actually a tera hog. Its base ability is in fact, preferable most of the time since those provide decent niche, especially Mold Breaker for fire version. However, tera Ogerpon does provide decent surprise to unexpecting opponents.

Despite the drawbacks, I believe all versions of Ogerpon will usable in OU, with the fire version potentially too much for the tier. It will be interesting to see its development as the meta progresses
 
hey, so i just noticed that dipplin has access to dragon tail. considering that with eviolite it has massive physical bulk and good special bulk (equivalent of 80/190/129 if you give it full def investment), is it possible that it could work as a phazer in a similar vein to (but of course less useful than) giratina-a? it's only got 5 less spa too…
Not to mention access to recover and high power attacking moves, such as draco meteor, grass knot and leaf storm. Also, if it's running sticky hold, it 100% keeps the great bulk eviolite affords it and functions as a knock off absorber at the same time (something pretty valuable when knock off distribution went through the roof with dlc1). Not gonna be an ou staple by any means, but might carve an ou niche on some builds (if u could support it with reliable hazard removal options), i reckon
 
here

with this in mind ogerpon seems like it'll be a LOT stronger than I initially thought it'd be. The Cornerstone form especially stands to me since it effectively has a 120BP rock move w/ perfect accuracy, something most rock types would kill for XD. Which form is your favorite atm?
Ok so let's clarify

Orgerpon has a SOUL DEW for every single fucking move it uses

An EXTRA 1.2x boost to its STAB moves

Not forgetting the 1.5x terastallization boost

And specifically Firepon has INTREPID SWORD upon using terastallization.

You know at first I thought this thing was just an average pokemon with a stat boosting effect, but now that we have this information... Suddenly that 120 attack stat isn't looking so mid after all -- especially since it has the same speed as the Soul Dew users...

Even if it's not an additional 1.2x STAB multiplier, then it's still super powerful
 
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I think Ogerpon-Hearth is okay, but Ogerpon-Corner is absolutely nuts.

  • Grass/Rock is an insane stab typing, Rock and Grass cover themselves for literally everything except steel.
  • Tera Rock gives you a defense boost which might seem meme at first but it's the same as Baxcalibur getting boosted under snow except with a 350 base speed. 252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Rock Ogerpon-Cornerstone-Tera: 180-213 (59.8 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 350 speed U-Turn, Knock, Grass move, this shit is Meowscarada with 100% accuracy Stone Edge to cover Fire/Flying/Ice
  • You can literally run it like Meow - Spikes, Knock, U-Turn/Ivy Cudgel, Taunt if you want. It even gets Encore to lock Bax into SD or Luna into CM.
  • Sturdy is nuts, even with all the loaded dice shits running around. This slams any non-dice sweeper if you clear hazards because it 2HKOs back if you run Whip/Cudgel. It OHKO's Luna with Whip if they don't tera Fight. 252+ Atk Miracle Seed Tera Rock Ogerpon-Cornerstone-Tera Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ursaluna-Bloodmoon: 420-494 (97.6 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
  • Sturdy also checks late game threats like Gambit, even if you already used your Tera so you can't get the +1 defense Sturdy clutches up. This also works for Ghold who gets 2HKO'd on a roll if it's 252 HP 252 Def Impish, and you live the Make it Rain because sturdy.
  • Hazards are still easy to get off, especially with Glimmora who in addition to clearing hazards sets them all up and beats fairies which is like the one type this thing can't hit super effectively.
  • Incredibly diverse movepool. 90% of the time this demon is going to be Cudgel/Whip/Superpower/Knock/U-Turn in some way, but it also gets Play Rough, Zen Headbutt (which is incredibly funny against Okidogi), Stomping (for if Mag gets unbanned I guess), Taunt to stop setup and Hazards, Encore to stop setup and hazards, Spiky Shield to chip the shit out of stuff you can't OHKO because that does 1/8th and paired with T-Spikes kills really fast, Throat Chop if you specifically really hate Kommo-o for some reason, the aforementioned Spikes because if you lead this into basically any other lead that isn't named Garchomp or Corv the normal set 1v1s with ease and can get an easy layer up for free and then turn out.
  • A few calcs to show how obscene this shit is.
252+ Atk Hard Stone Ogerpon-Cornerstone Ivy Cudgel vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 348-410 (105.4 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hard Stone burned Ogerpon-Cornerstone Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 258-304 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hard Stone Tera Rock Ogerpon-Cornerstone Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 194-230 (52.2 - 61.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Ice Body recovery
252+ Atk Ogerpon-Cornerstone Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Manaphy with an ally's Aurora Veil: 204-240 (50.6 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hard Stone Ogerpon-Cornerstone Ivy Cudgel vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Hearthflame: 470-554 (156.1 - 184%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Hard Stone Ogerpon-Cornerstone Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 142-168 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- 88.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Black Belt Ogerpon-Cornerstone Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 308-364 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Hard Stone Ogerpon-Cornerstone Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 224+ Def Enamorus-Therian: 282-332 (80.3 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
Hot take: I think blood moon Ursaluna will have a significant presence in UU, and maybe even OU. Moonlight is great recovery, it’s signature mice is great, and calm mind is a good boosting move
there's a less creative name than even that
:sv/seel:
This thing works with Eviolite right? That means with a physically defensive spread it functionally has 80 / 190 / 129 bulk. In addition it has Sticky Hold so it can't be Knocked Off / Tricked unlike most other Eviolite Pokemon.

*damage calcs against +1/+1 def Appleton with Dipplin's defenses

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 82-97 (22.5 - 26.6%)

252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 288-338 (79.1 - 92.8%)

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Appletun: 117-138 (32.1 - 37.9%)

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Appletun: 124-147 (34 - 40.3%)


Sadly despite all this absurd bulk its typing is kind of ass and its movepool is fucking terrible. Unlike its two apple brothers it doesn't even get Leech Seed!
I have an exceptionally important and sad news flash: dipplin is an evolution. It does not evolve further. It is incompatible with eviolite.
 
This is hilarious thank you for telling me this. This is obviously a glitch but it is funny one:totodiLUL:
A yet-to-be-revealed dipplin evolution is coming in dlc2. It is exactly what happened with ursaring, where ursaluna wasn't in base SV (it joined the dex with the HOME release),yet ursaring could use eviolite from the get-go, despite ursaluna technically not existing yet in SV
 
I think what makes Ogerpon weird is that with 4 variation, it can be difficult to get a good read on her. I think it's obviously one Ogrepon's is prolly better than another Ogerpon and I feel like it's gonna be interesting to see which mask lands where. I think I can see the likes of Hearthflame being a solid, not OP OU mon. Teal also being up there as well due to the benefit of an item. But time will tell as there are, once again 4 Ogerpon to test and use and will prolly get different types. Ogrepon is prolly one of the more interesting mons we have here, especially Gen 9 legends as it has different forms while also not be so unbearably absurd by made with some sense of balance lol
This aged well....
 
What’s the defensive counter play to Blood Moon and Ogrepon-Hearthstone? I can’t seem to think of any except for simply out speeding them. I think with the DLC any chance of running viable balance is officially gone :/
 
RE: Volcarona,

After the last tiering survey, Volcarona had enough support to get voted on to drop down, but nothing else came particularly close. Once everything was released on PS and we gained the information necessary about the DLC to proceed, the SV OU tiering council voted on Volcarona. In order for something to drop down from Ubers, it would need 2/3 or higher support to drop down from Ubers per this recent ruling.

Here is the result on Volcarona:
FinchinatorRuftausmaimaLilymind gamingNJNPStarTPPxavgb
UnbanUnbanUnbanDo not unbanUnbanDo not unbanDo not unbanUnbanDo no unbanDo not unban

With only 5 of 10 votes favoring an unban, Volcarona will remain Ubers for the time. This does not exclude it from discussions of a formal retest and it is very much on the table for starting OU after DLC2, but it lacks sufficient support to start OU with the release of DLC1.
I am quite dissapointed that volcarona didn't get retested after the community vote overwhelmingly voted for it upon release of dlc (like how calyrex-s in home ubers was immediately suspect tested for a ban) I feel volcarona would be the best mon to do it with.

Considering it is the beginning of the meta after all, and its the perfect time to get things out of the way (Especially since OLT has a 2 week break from being DLC and wouldve been the perfect time to test/let a meta settle), especially after how much volcarona was voted for an unban.

Any how, i to avoid it just being a volc post. Fezandipiti, Mandibuzz and Ogerpon Wellspring Form are the underrated 3 of this meta rn, these guys are genuinely great and hasnt gotten any love so far on ladder.
 
A yet-to-be-revealed dipplin evolution is coming in dlc2. It is exactly what happened with ursaring, where ursaluna wasn't in base SV (it joined the dex with the HOME release),yet ursaring could use eviolite from the get-go, despite ursaluna technically not existing yet in SV
This is incredibly ironic. Although to be fair, I was aware of Ursaluna in Legends Arceus. But I don't think anyone knows even the name of the dipplin evolution. Who knows? Maybe Dipplin will actually evolve into the goat Dripplin :)
 
What’s the defensive counter play to Blood Moon and Ogrepon-Hearthstone? I can’t seem to think of any except for simply out speeding them. I think with the DLC any chance of running viable balance is officially gone :/
blood moon doesn't really have much it can do to corviknight. best it can hope for is praying for a focus blast hit or supereffective tera blast. also, eviolite chansey can still to shrug off any special move, even if it's more passive than other gens

ogerpon-heartbreaker… has no defensive counterplay. it had defensive counterplay until yesterday
 
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