in what world would it have been better to have bax for more time
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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Veil players now have to actually think? Oh wait, they're gonna find another sweeper to autopilot with.
Starting to pick up on enough of the meta to get back to building weird anti/off-meta stuff that isn't straight terrible.
The most obvious one is that Ogerpon-Cornerstone is just fantastic. Its Ivy Cudgel is a 100% accurate STAB Stone Edge -- including the crit rate -- which is nuts into all of the weather teams running around right now. It's significantly less tempting to save your tera for it than Hearthflame, and Sturdy can be a fantastic get out of jail free card. I've been running SD/Ivy Cudgel/Horn Leech (has let me proc study after taking hazard chip several times) + Low Kick (because my team doesn't have any great Gambit answers), but it's got the same bag of tricks Hearthfire does just without the added boom when Tera'd.
Neutralizing Gas GWeezing is also feeling like a great pick at the moment. I've been running a double status set with Toxic/Wisp/Defog/Clear Smog. This thing defogs on Gholdengo, toxics Garg, burns Bax (for as long as its around), blocks weather setters, stops Regenerator recovery, makes Gliscor take toxic damage, disrupts Guts/Huge Power/Supreme Overlord/Protean power boosts...It's pure madness how many 'mons this gen really get pushed over the edge by their ability, and Gweezing stands for none of it.
Finally, both of these `mons benefit a TON from Alomomola wish support, and while `Mola getting Flip Turn felt like a huge deal, Flip Turn sets have felt exceptionally mid to me. It may just be that I'm bad at piloting them, but they feel predictable and passive. I've been getting a lot of mileage out of the set I was running up and down RU in August:
Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Def / 132 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlpool
- Wish
- Protect
- Mirror Coat
Beyond the obvious Wish/Tect stuffs, Protect helps the the Whirlpool damage wrack up and lets you scout the reaction from your opponent. Helmet adds chip to trapped physical attackers or anything that tries to U-Turn out, Mirror Coat punishes any special attackers that assume they've got your number (especially funny into volt switches).
EVed to give the biggest Wishes possible while also being guaranteed to survive an offensive Zapdos TBolt, which also leads to beautiful calcs like:
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Dragon Pulse vs. 124 HP / 132 SpD Alomomola: 390-460 (77.6 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 124 HP / 132 SpD Alomomola in Rain: 340-401 (67.7 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Take out the big gun, Regen cycle a time or two, and you're golden.
Tera Grass means that, apart from Ogerpon-Wellspring, `Mola can pretty much solo rain with good prediction into the special attackers. And it's surprisingly good into Sun and Hail, too, due to the ability to trap setters: wasting weather turns, wearing them down with passive damage, and potentially letting you Mirror Coat them into oblivion.
Use this fat fish, y'all.
The most obvious one is that Ogerpon-Cornerstone is just fantastic. Its Ivy Cudgel is a 100% accurate STAB Stone Edge -- including the crit rate -- which is nuts into all of the weather teams running around right now. It's significantly less tempting to save your tera for it than Hearthflame, and Sturdy can be a fantastic get out of jail free card. I've been running SD/Ivy Cudgel/Horn Leech (has let me proc study after taking hazard chip several times) + Low Kick (because my team doesn't have any great Gambit answers), but it's got the same bag of tricks Hearthfire does just without the added boom when Tera'd.
Neutralizing Gas GWeezing is also feeling like a great pick at the moment. I've been running a double status set with Toxic/Wisp/Defog/Clear Smog. This thing defogs on Gholdengo, toxics Garg, burns Bax (for as long as its around), blocks weather setters, stops Regenerator recovery, makes Gliscor take toxic damage, disrupts Guts/Huge Power/Supreme Overlord/Protean power boosts...It's pure madness how many 'mons this gen really get pushed over the edge by their ability, and Gweezing stands for none of it.
Finally, both of these `mons benefit a TON from Alomomola wish support, and while `Mola getting Flip Turn felt like a huge deal, Flip Turn sets have felt exceptionally mid to me. It may just be that I'm bad at piloting them, but they feel predictable and passive. I've been getting a lot of mileage out of the set I was running up and down RU in August:
Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Def / 132 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Whirlpool
- Wish
- Protect
- Mirror Coat
Beyond the obvious Wish/Tect stuffs, Protect helps the the Whirlpool damage wrack up and lets you scout the reaction from your opponent. Helmet adds chip to trapped physical attackers or anything that tries to U-Turn out, Mirror Coat punishes any special attackers that assume they've got your number (especially funny into volt switches).
EVed to give the biggest Wishes possible while also being guaranteed to survive an offensive Zapdos TBolt, which also leads to beautiful calcs like:
252 SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Walking Wake Dragon Pulse vs. 124 HP / 132 SpD Alomomola: 390-460 (77.6 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 124 HP / 132 SpD Alomomola in Rain: 340-401 (67.7 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Take out the big gun, Regen cycle a time or two, and you're golden.
Tera Grass means that, apart from Ogerpon-Wellspring, `Mola can pretty much solo rain with good prediction into the special attackers. And it's surprisingly good into Sun and Hail, too, due to the ability to trap setters: wasting weather turns, wearing them down with passive damage, and potentially letting you Mirror Coat them into oblivion.
Use this fat fish, y'all.
Unless Baxcaliber is a time-traveler, that date is wrong. It literally only was introduced last November.
Rip Bozo XD. Also wow, the first pseudo legendary to get banned since DPP Mence and Chomp.
Welp, time for hearthflame to get quickbanned on the next slate.
THANK FUCK BAX IS GONE LETS GOOOOOOOOO
But a ton of mons benefit from baxcalibur being gone
THANK FUCK BAX IS GONE LETS GOOOOOOOOO
But a ton of mons benefit from baxcalibur being gone
5 - lol
4 - definetly suspect worthy, if we even have the time for that, but i haven’t seen it enough to conclude if its exactly broken enough for a council ban. we’ll see
3 - honestly, i think people are overreacting with this one. big deal, a plate boost to all of its moves. that doesn’t exactly shift away from its inability to hold other items, subsequent inability to cover its weakness to rocks, no form of tera surprise factor, and good but not backbreaking speed tier. maybe a suspect, but i’m not seeing it so far.
2 - eh. it pretty much has only one set but that set is a good set. haven’t seen much of this one either, but i doubt it being broken.
3 - 8’m skeptical of screens being the problem gievn that it’s usually always been the pokemon BEHIND the screens that’s broken, not the screens themselves. i understand the sentiment, of course. the snow buff makes it INCREDIBLE at what it does, but now that we LITERALLY just banned it’s best abuser, i’m not buying the idea of it being broken.
1 - lol
1 - LMAO
nah, SEND ITS ASS TO THE SHADOW REALM!!!!!!!
GONE, GRAHHHHHHH
THEY AXED THE BAX
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Some mons that won
Guess Why. In all seriousness these two love the fact bax is gone and they dont have to worry about defensive tera or outplaying a bax under veils. If this ban leads into an atales decline thats a double win to them. Not only that but the possible offensive mons returning now that bax is gone makes them much more useful
Pretty much every form wins (though at varying degrees). Tealpon is the biggest winner, not having to deal with bax resisting her best move and threatening her back, and now with alleviating pressure pon can be used more effectively and is a scary presence. Also she got her ability updated yay!
Back 4 more baby. Gholdy wins by not being forced into air balloon just to stay around longer and kingambit can now act like kingambit again
Zapdos got a lot more flexible again imo. It was a great mon that matched poorly vs veil teams and now that these are with shaken viability I think its gonna make a comeback
Some mons that lost
Losing the biggest veil star means theres a lot less reasoning to use veil. Ninetales may stick around for a bit longer and enjoy the chaos of early metagame, but I think the playstyle will become more niche as it goes. Manaphy imo was a sidekick in the bax story, and without it its basically kicked down and may receed to rain teams
Rip this guys prospective niche. Unnexplored but not forgotten
This guy was a decent pick vs bax, but now that its gone its hard to justify using it without some heavy consideration
Guess Why. In all seriousness these two love the fact bax is gone and they dont have to worry about defensive tera or outplaying a bax under veils. If this ban leads into an atales decline thats a double win to them. Not only that but the possible offensive mons returning now that bax is gone makes them much more useful
Pretty much every form wins (though at varying degrees). Tealpon is the biggest winner, not having to deal with bax resisting her best move and threatening her back, and now with alleviating pressure pon can be used more effectively and is a scary presence. Also she got her ability updated yay!
Back 4 more baby. Gholdy wins by not being forced into air balloon just to stay around longer and kingambit can now act like kingambit again
Zapdos got a lot more flexible again imo. It was a great mon that matched poorly vs veil teams and now that these are with shaken viability I think its gonna make a comeback
Some mons that lost
Losing the biggest veil star means theres a lot less reasoning to use veil. Ninetales may stick around for a bit longer and enjoy the chaos of early metagame, but I think the playstyle will become more niche as it goes. Manaphy imo was a sidekick in the bax story, and without it its basically kicked down and may receed to rain teams
Rip this guys prospective niche. Unnexplored but not forgotten
This guy was a decent pick vs bax, but now that its gone its hard to justify using it without some heavy consideration
Tornadus-T won as well with Bax leaving, because now it can go back to doing what it did best with knock off back in its arsenal without worrying about pivoting around baxcalibur, I can imagine torn-t will be back to its old antics with less veil and no Bax aroundSome mons that won
Guess Why. In all seriousness these two love the fact bax is gone and they dont have to worry about defensive tera or outplaying a bax under veils. If this ban leads into an atales decline thats a double win to them. Not only that but the possible offensive mons returning now that bax is gone makes them much more useful
Pretty much every form wins (though at varying degrees). Tealpon is the biggest winner, not having to deal with bax resisting her best move and threatening her back, and now with alleviating pressure pon can be used more effectively and is a scary presence. Also she got her ability updated yay!
Back 4 more baby. Gholdy wins by not being forced into air balloon just to stay around longer and kingambit can now act like kingambit again
Zapdos got a lot more flexible again imo. It was a great mon that matched poorly vs veil teams and now that these are with shaken viability I think its gonna make a comeback
Some mons that lost
Losing the biggest veil star means theres a lot less reasoning to use veil. Ninetales may stick around for a bit longer and enjoy the chaos of early metagame, but I think the playstyle will become more niche as it goes. Manaphy imo was a sidekick in the bax story, and without it its basically kicked down and may receed to rain teams
Rip this guys prospective niche. Unnexplored but not forgotten
This guy was a decent pick vs bax, but now that its gone its hard to justify using it without some heavy consideration
yeah, ogerpon-heatraneater is definitely sweating now. the only thing that kinda dealt with her (but not really) is gone, so she knows it's only a matter of time before we bring the hammer down
Do you mean it's only a matter of time before we bring the ivy cudgel down?
bringing the hammer down is what she does, though!
(seriously, how does gen 9 have 2 100% female pokemon with a hammer-based signature move)
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To avoid this being a complete shitpost, I definitely wouldn't count Ninetales out just yet. The only way to keep it from getting screens up is either to switch weather in on it, or to be able to one-shot it through Snow with the mon that's currently on the field. Neither of those are especially easy, even if they are doable.
seems like someone on the design team is kinda sus. maybe the guy who makes all the plantgirl mons found a new thing to be openly weird about
I remember that, but between those two voting slates, a number of council members (chiefly among them Finch) strongly stated that they thought Volc was broken and a problem. Pretty sure those opinions, which released before the actual vote, can be found as justification on the radar page
Ogrepon-Hearth's gotta go. The thing doesn't have any walls and doesn't even need to tera to do absolutely insane amounts of damage to things that resist its attacks. So far, the only way I've found to even kind of deal with it (which half requires the opponent to be a moron, and also only works on stall) is to toxic it, then play the protect and switch minigame. Obviously, that doesn't work when the opponent has half a brain to switch out their toxic'd win condition, but it's the best I've got. I've heard that Dozo with tera dragon can kind of deal with it, but again, if it has one wall that requires a tera to only kind of deal with it, that's a problem.
It received more support than things like Magearna, Chien-Pao, and other quickbans in the survey, and idt someone who isn’t privy to the full results can comment like this in good faith.
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
So 1, apparently I meant Arctibax, and 2
Minichilla (Arctibax) @ Eviolite
Ability: Ice Body
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brick Break
- Icicle Crash
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance
Yeah you are 90 less total Atk, but you do take a bit less because whoops, eviolite veil ice body is a BITCH. I dont think youll make the literal stonks Godchilla could, but Minichilla has potential. If only it got scale shot or somethin.
Edit: im working on a team. https://pokepast.es/19711378be03ccc5
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HEAT ALERT HEAT ALERT 
(lol heat bc heatproof + tea)
On the topic of the Bax ban, I'm hoping
gets more use. It can fill the role of a defensive wall (minus gambit) and a good Spin Blocker as it doesn't need to run Ballon for Tusk. There are alot of strong ground and water types in the format rn, which Sinistcha does well vs. It will stuggle with Ogrepon. But you can run a good core of Sinistcha + Moltres to deal with it.
@ Leftovers
Ability: Heatproof
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Matcha Gotcha
- Shadow Ball/Scald
- Strength Sap
- Nasty Plot/Scald/Stun Spore
You can run Scald if you want to hit fire types like
and 
that switch-in for free. You can also run a Calm Mind set, but I wouldn't recommend that because we have something called .
Notable Clacs:
(In the defensive ones, its running calcs off a 97.5 bp move, so the 2HKOs are actually 3HKOs and no kill with Matcha/Str Sap recovery
So yeah, It matches up pretty well with the attackers in the tier (minus gambit) and hope my silly little teapot does well :3
(lol heat bc heatproof + tea)On the topic of the Bax ban, I'm hoping
gets more use. It can fill the role of a defensive wall (minus gambit) and a good Spin Blocker as it doesn't need to run Ballon for Tusk. There are alot of strong ground and water types in the format rn, which Sinistcha does well vs. It will stuggle with Ogrepon. But you can run a good core of Sinistcha + Moltres to deal with it. @ Leftovers Ability: Heatproof
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Matcha Gotcha
- Shadow Ball/Scald
- Strength Sap
- Nasty Plot/Scald/Stun Spore
You can run Scald if you want to hit fire types like
and that switch-in for free. You can also run a Calm Mind set, but I wouldn't recommend that because we have something called .Notable Clacs:
(In the defensive ones, its running calcs off a 97.5 bp move, so the 2HKOs are actually 3HKOs and no kill with Matcha/Str Sap recovery
0 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sinistcha: 122-144 (35.3 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sinistcha: 148-176 (42.8 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Iron Valiant Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sinistcha: 146-174 (42.3 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Hearthflame Mask Mold Breaker Ogerpon-Hearthflame Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sinistcha: 254-302 (73.6 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Sinistcha: 104-126 (30.1 - 36.5%) -- 45.8% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sinistcha: 148-176 (42.8 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Iron Valiant Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sinistcha: 146-174 (42.3 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Hearthflame Mask Mold Breaker Ogerpon-Hearthflame Ivy Cudgel vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sinistcha: 254-302 (73.6 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Heatproof Sinistcha: 104-126 (30.1 - 36.5%) -- 45.8% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Sinistcha Matcha Gotcha vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 338-402 (91.1 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Sinistcha Matcha Gotcha vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 338-398 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Sinistcha Matcha Gotcha vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 204-242 (50.6 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Sinistcha Matcha Gotcha vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 338-398 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Sinistcha Matcha Gotcha vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 204-242 (50.6 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So yeah, It matches up pretty well with the attackers in the tier (minus gambit) and hope my silly little teapot does well :3
zReptar
formerly LT83AQ Lou
Rest in Piss smoking that bax pack #RIPBOZO
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