Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[BolTingBlazie]

There's also arguing about whether Darkrai should be allowed into OU (absolutely not, imo, but smart people have argued otherwise).

To iterate, I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but Darkrai gets Trick, which is something that allows Choice sets to ruin many of Darkrai's best answers. Blissey, Clodsire, and Toxapex are all ruined by being tricked a Choice Item, and Kingambit also loathes being Choice locked. Even if Darkrai can't answer everything in one set, it has ways around most of its answers, and this is one of them.

I'm just gonna say, 4mss is a very big issue for it as darkrai can't always hit what it wants to especially if its rocking nasty plot. If it runs trick it gives up coverage, if it runs nasty plot it gives up coverage, if it runs thunder or focus blast, it cannot always land those moves, point being it has a ton of tools but wants to use all of them in one set, some of which like focus blast and thunder have a very frequent tendency to miss. Point being, if we somehow ban tera, there is a chance Darkrai could be managable in a non-tera meta since it would have a harder time bypassing its 4mss and pokemon like Kingambit would be able to deal with it. (Since gambit in a non-tera metagame is probably fine to have around.)

But also, we probably shouldn't test it until action is taken on tera. Tera darkrai would obviously be too much, if tera gets heavily restricted or preferably banned I think we can consider dropping darkrai then and it may be manageable down here.

 

[dragonbr]

My new favorite mon:
Trailblaze Mamo

Dude has great bulk with Thick Fat on those respectable defensive stats, with the coverage that some mons can only dream of, good set variety, ability to set hazards or go full offensive. Here are two sample sets for the Trailblaze specifically that I like:

Leftys+Knock Variant

Mamocalibur (Loaded Dice)

I heavily reccomend trying it out, the hazard variants though I don’t feel will be very useful, no reason to turn Mamo into a worse version of Hazards Chomp.

bulky offense

 

[SDK03]

My new favorite mon:
Trailblaze Mamo
View attachment 554410

Dude has great bulk with Thick Fat on those respectable defensive stats, with the coverage that some mons can only dream of, good set variety, ability to set hazards or go full offensive. Here are two sample sets for the Trailblaze specifically that I like:

Leftys+Knock Variant

Mamocalibur (Loaded Dice)

I heavily reccomend trying it out, the hazard variants though I don’t feel will be very useful, no reason to turn Mamo into a worse version of Hazards Chomp.

bulky offense

This guy needs Swords Dance so badly istg, just give him the damn move already Game Freak

 

[Pierpat]

There's also arguing about whether Darkrai should be allowed into OU (absolutely not, imo, but smart people have argued otherwise).

I was avoiding the darkrai issue because just like the bigger tera in the room we already had a word from the big guns that it's not something that can happen before dlc2, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[gregdawiz]

This is like saying Swampert in ADV is overcentralizing because a bunch of physical attackers use HP Grass to beat it.

I would say adv swampert is too much if it were also immune to trick, leech seed, all statuses, was better glue than it already is, and blocked all forms of hazard removal in a meta where theres 4 different genres of hazards you can all get up. I'm sure a lot of adv players would lol.

But Komodo_Drogo may be right, unhealthy might be a better word than overcentralizing I might not be using that term perfectly. I do just get annoyed at just how much ghold hard invalidates. It really is more than any other pokemon in OU right now.

 

[MattC (Banned)]

So basically the current vibes are:
Nobody wants firepon in this meta because it's just physical chi-yu and we already had a full season of memes about stuff hitting in sun with tera fire and getting OHKOs on tanks
A lot of ppl don't like Gholdie because he is just hard to deal with and makes hazards very unapproachable
And then there's like the kingambit stuff (we know about of the half of the playerbase really doesn't want him in and another half is either on the edge or rapidly changing its mind) that while kinda clear can't be acted upon because we took a shot at the king, missed, and the whole suspect process is disrespected if we just act on something shortly after it survived a full suspect test.

What else am i missing? Gliscor being too good? we all aknowledging that iron valiant is kinda of a ubers pokemon just here in OU because we have stuff that is even more uber-like?

This post is severely underrated. But it also says a lot about the metagame

I'm tried of the back and forth of finch and the player base of OU, so briefly:

- Firepon
- Kingambit
- Gholdengo (I'm not sure why)
- Gliscor (just annoying tbh)

And who knows what else is on the edge of a very tilted rock from falling off the cliff

And yes I did in fact say a contradiction, as well as a bad idiom

 

[Cuddly]

Is this the part where I bring up another past Pokemon comparison for Gholdengo in the form of my not-thinnly-veiled Aegislash allusion in my last post?

I think it was a much easier argument to make with people that Aegislash was not a broken Pokemon the way we see things like Baxcalibur this Gen, but rather was a heavily centralizing and influential presence for a singular mon in the entirety of the OU tier: Aegislash was versatile and splashable enough to fit onto virtually every team effectively (the only single-mon cases I'm otherwise aware of in that league are Gen 2 Snorlax and certain Ubers like Primal Groudon), and consequently Aegislash dictated how a LOT of Pokemon had to play: Anything that it resisted or immuned (which was 12 out of the 18 types) could not make worthwhile progress against it compared to what it could do with the turn, so several Pokemon had to run moves or coverage options that were pretty redundant or low value on them to avoid being stopped by every Aegislash set: Gardevoir would run Shadow Ball, things like Mega Pinsir and Heracross ran Earthquake over Close Combat (which hit several of the same targets otherwise with more power), and this is assuming you even had a move like that and wouldn't be forced down in usage to avoid giving an Aegislash food like Breloom with Spore used up (or Aegis behind a Sub). A single Pokemon heavily impacting the viability of dozens of Pokemon (whether pushing them out or forcing compromise on their movesets) or even entire types is a strong case for overcentralization in that even if it's not 6-0'ing teams or shutting down playstyles, it stifles the majority of options such that experimentation was not worth it unless you could deal with the most common dude.

Before this gets strawmanned like some of the Corviknight arguments, I am NOT foolish enough to think Gholdengo exerts this level of control and pressure on OU. That said, I do think there is a comparison to be made that Gholdengo is not a singularly broken Pokemon persay, but it IS very much the central Cog in a playstyle that is a clear cornerstone of how OU is played or reacted to by opposing teams right now. We gained a lot of good Spikers while losing a lot of Removers this gen, but Gholdengo exacerbates another part of that issue, in that it makes Hazard removal for those remaining SIGNIFICANTLY less reliable, as even if Gholdengo is sacced, it prevents the removal if it comes onto the field unfainted and the free switch to exploit the remover's presence is momentum gained. Suicide leads lost ground for a few Generations because Defog and improved Spinners like Excadrill meant Hazards could be removed before they made enough progress to be worth losing a slot, meaning hazard setters would more often be tanks or non-sacced Offensive threats who could stick around in case they needed to put them back up while threatening some removers, but not being able to stop them all. Something like Samurott-H's Ceaseless Edge is very powerful this Gen, but I am hard pressed to believe this would be an A+ mon in a Generation where those Spikes might not last past 5-10 turns after they're set, compared to here where he can poke your side 3 times, die, and still put in more work than half the attackers with those Spikes not going away.

And I'm going to say this: the small number of hazard removers is not an argument relevant to if Gholdengo is suspect worthy, especially since Gholdengo restricting 2 Defoggers is a BIGGER impact on an OU with 3 other removers instead of 15 other removal options by proportion. This is also to bring up that while Hazards are the easiest case to point to, Gholdengo's a Pokemon with extremely limited response options in how binary it is: You can't do reliable passive damage to this thing beyond spike stacking yourself due to Good as Gold and his typing tanking 2/3 of the type chart, both passive damage Status effects (granted Steel blocks Poison regardless), immunity to Sand, Resistance to Stealth Rock, and access to Recover to exploit anything that doesn't 2-shot him. Garganacl gets similar criticism thanks to Purifying Salt but at least has the argument that it's not as immediately threatening back while having massive differences in longevity depending on if it Teras vs having arguably the best defensive typing in OU (and this isn't even me saying Garg is a healthy or fun presence either). If you don't have consistent neutral/SE offense for the 6 types Gholdengo is neutral-or-worse to, you will not break this thing before the NP set eats your team or it's danced around/on top of your defensive cores with its partners like Iron Valiant. Hazard stack goes well with Offense, and guess what the best way to protect those Hazards is: Gholdengo, a Pokemon that also shits on 90% of the Pokemon that aren't "I hit things and things die" by design.

Personal addendum: Pursuit would have also fixed this because then the Stinky Cheese Man can't run away from a bad Double Switch or being pivoted on and this is as much a stupid decision of Gamefreak's as the Hazard-relevant-move distribution is.

That’s a lot of words to compare Pokemon whose only simularities are being Ghost/Steel and vague idea of being versatile, and not understanding why Aegislash in past gens was banned.
Aegislash was always a massive threat. It had same offenses as Rayquaza and same Defenses as Registeel with just less HP and Speed. Combined with an absurd amount of resistances and pretty busted protect move, Aegislash is absolutely a threat and a half. Gholdengo is a great Pokemon but even if dropped in Gen 6 it simply wouldn’t compare to Aegislash as being a threat.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

and the whole suspect process is disrespected if we just act on something shortly after it survived a full suspect test.

does the suspect process really deserve all the respect it gets when it leads us to results like gambit's? i think we should stop treating it like some sort of holy writ and just kick the fucking thing out the window already

 

[Ibaragi]

In the end, I think we can reach a consensus that Hazards, in some shape or form, are a problem and require some kind of action in the near, but not immediate, future.
The following question where there's room for debate is how worse does Gholdengo make this problem. While we can all agree that it makes Hazard removal more difficult, it's also true that hazards in general and Spikes specifically are easier to set in this gen than ever before and removing hazards would be harder than ever before due to Defog being much rarer than in previous generations, with awkward decision like Moltres and Zapdos not getting it anymore. Gholdengo is not the only source of the problem and just getting rid of it wouldn't solve the problem, but it also undeniably makes hazards a bigger problem than it already would be.
Would banning it be enough to balance the hazard meta? Would we need to go straight to the source and talk about Spikes(+Samurott-H, maybe Gliscor?)? Or do we accept that Gen 9 is the hazard-est meta of all hazard meta and live with it? These seem to be the core questions that the community needs to talk about. But if that's the case, then current tiering protocols would dictate that the most likely and "orderly" procedure would be to first suspect Gholdengo, see if the resulting meta is still unhealthy as per the community's standards and then talk about going for Spikes.

In any case, the complexity of the problem, where we would be talking of whether or not it's ok to ban a pokemon to nerf a mechanic, demands it be thrown into the pile of problems we can't solve right away for timing reasons, like Tera. We'll have to wait for DLC2 either way to be able to make "bolder" decisions without the fear of having the entire context around them change entirely.

As for Ogerpon-H, judging from the responses we've seen on this topic since the survey, her getting a quickban by the time we get the survey results is a very likely possibility, which is probably why we're all looking for the next topic to discuss.
Kingambit is kind of protected by the suspect test failing in his favor, so there's also not much we can do about it for the time being (probably until DLC2) and the other potentially problematic mons don't seem to be in a position where we can suspect them in the immediate future, although I shouldn't be saying this until we have the survey results to actually know.
I think the only topic that is none of the above nor the "Darkrai in OU" that hasn't been touched much is what people think of/want to do in regards to screens. We could wait to see how Screens/Ninetails-A fairs after the predictable Ogerpon-H ban, but I think it's the best next topic as it's relevant for the current meta and we're not shackled by DLC2 or timing issues to act upon.

 

[`ShadowTwo]

So, what is your assessment of the meta of this DLC 2?

What do you think of the Pokémon that have gained new moves (Garchomp, Roaring Moon, Walking Wake...)?
And new Pokemon?

 

[Smashburn]

So, what is your assessment of the meta of this DLC 2?

What do you think of the Pokémon that have gained new moves (Garchomp, Roaring Moon, Walking Wake...)?
And new Pokemon?

Dawg DLC2 isn't out for another like 3 months. Secondly, it's kinda balance hell. Not because balance is everywhere, but because it genuinely feels impossible to build / play without being incredibly restricted. I hate it.

 

[Finchinator]

The SV OU tiering council is currently conducting a vote on one Pokemon that received high enough support in the tiering survey. Please note that we are not voting on any Pokemon with low survey scores or that did not get included as we continue to value your feedback within our process.

In addition, there is a likelihood that, regardless of the vote’s outcome, we enter a suspect in the aftermath of this vote and in the coming days. Stay tuned for more information as it becomes readily available.

 

[FuecocoBoi]

The SV OU tiering council is currently conducting a vote on one Pokemon that received high enough support in the tiering survey. Please note that we are not voting on any Pokemon with low survey scores or that did not get included as we continue to value your feedback within our process.

In addition, there is a likelihood that, regardless of the vote’s outcome, we enter a suspect in the aftermath of this vote and in the coming days. Stay tuned for more information as it becomes readily available.

A final salute for Better Scovillian, he will be in our hearts o7
ogrepon-Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia

suspect is either Bloodmoon or Manaphy maybe King

 

[pika pal]

That’s a lot of words to compare Pokemon whose only simularities are being Ghost/Steel and vague idea of being versatile, and not understanding why Aegislash in past gens was banned.
Aegislash was always a massive threat. It had same offenses as Rayquaza and same Defenses as Registeel with just less HP and Speed. Combined with an absurd amount of resistances and pretty busted protect move, Aegislash is absolutely a threat and a half. Gholdengo is a great Pokemon but even if dropped in Gen 6 it simply wouldn’t compare to Aegislash as being a threat.

Saw this coming. Yes, King's Shield and the stats have a major impact on Aegislash's viability then, which is why he was one of the earliest suspects while Gholdengo is only up for discussion now. Something that comes up on the XY Suspect thread several times though is that Aegislash was contentious not simply for how extremely powerful it was, but also because of the sheer number of Pokemon it makes outright unviable. Aegislash had high numbers with Stance Change, but I think Gholdengo has something equally powerful in Good as Gold simply for how much it lets him deal with or blank simply by existing without even the basic decision-making that went into Aegislash having to King's Shield to change back if running a set that relied on such. I think you're also SEVERELY underselling the Ghost/Steel trait as a small similarity, when, as pointed out, it provides massive longevity with 3 Immunities and 9 Resistances on top of the utility of things like Spin-Blocking. "Just" sharing one of the best types in the game (which was signature to the Aegislash line prior) is still a massive and unique benefit to have.

And sure, maybe I was sharing a "vague idea of being versatile" but my point remains that a lot of Aegislash's controversy was around its effect on the Metagame even if it was not unanimous as "broken" rather than restrictive or centralizing, as Gholdengo in turn can be on peoples' radar for similar reason. Gholdengo does not have to be at Aegislash's level of threat to be a problem for a similar principle, and this is assuming the environments would be comparable. Just because Gholdengo wouldn't be as oppressive as Aegislash in the Metas the latter was banned from does not mean that it is then definitively not suspect-worthy or comparable in THIS meta where Aegislash has not even dropped as a point of comparison (and as 5-second speculation I would easily believe Aegislash, even with its old 150 spreads, being worse than Gholdengo in the Tera Meta where its power isn't as high above the rest and its lack of recovery/Support options cuts into its defensive profile.)

Aegislash's presence alone makes many Pokemon subpar or just generally worse than what they could be, while at the same time preventing Rapid Spinners outside of Excadrill from being viable. Individually, each trait doesn't make it banworthy, but a single mon has all of these!

THIS one I cite as surface level comparison that I mostly put in for the fun of it and it is just a single piece of the post discussing several traits that are indeed unique to Aegislash. I just find it amusing seeing this particular parallel (several Pokemon made subpar by it existing, well-distributed stats, traits that are more collectively concerning than individually, and literally a single Offensive-Ground Type as the only viable Spinner in the Meta with it).

The SV OU tiering council is currently conducting a vote on one Pokemon that received high enough support in the tiering survey. Please note that we are not voting on any Pokemon with low survey scores or that did not get included as we continue to value your feedback within our process.

In addition, there is a likelihood that, regardless of the vote’s outcome, we enter a suspect in the aftermath of this vote and in the coming days. Stay tuned for more information as it becomes readily available.

I'll miss you, Hearthflame. If she's not voted out by Quickban then she's definitely going to be the Suspect (if she is I expect that to be Ursaluna or Atales) and I know she ain't surviving community vote with how talk has gone. Maybe if Tera action removes the Intrepid Cudgel option the base form would be less controversial, but as long as those are hard-linked (obviously so because Complex bans are not worth it) this mask is going in the attic.

 

[Just A Shroom God]

So, what is your assessment of the meta of this DLC 2?

What do you think of the Pokémon that have gained new moves (Garchomp, Roaring Moon, Walking Wake...)?
And new Pokemon?

OMG GUYS HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THIS GREAT NEW MON LOKIX? DID YOU KNOW THAT HE HAS TINTED LENS, AND CAN OHKO DRAGAPULT AFTER TERA BUG AND WITH A CHOICE BAND????? DID YOU KNOW HE GETS KNOCK OFF NOW????????? DID YOU KNOW THAT HE CAN 2HKO DEFENSIVE ZAPDOS WITH LEECH LIFE???? OMG GUYS GUYS LOKIX IS JUST BETTER KINGAMBIT OMG OMG!!!!!

 

[JunkoAJ]

The SV OU tiering council is currently conducting a vote on one Pokemon that received high enough support in the tiering survey. Please note that we are not voting on any Pokemon with low survey scores or that did not get included as we continue to value your feedback within our process.

In addition, there is a likelihood that, regardless of the vote’s outcome, we enter a suspect in the aftermath of this vote and in the coming days. Stay tuned for more information as it becomes readily available.

Pls don't ban her, she's too cute to be banned. Just look at that face.

It's interesting tho that Ogerpon-W is arguably the better overall Mon but no one really talks about her at all - I guess bc Ogerpon-H clicks everything and dies

 

[MrE]

Glad you asked! There's a good reason I'm complaining about Gholdengo and not the other pokemon that are top 10 in usage. The difference to me here is the restrictiveness of the pokemon.

Say I'm running a pokemon like Rock Ogerpon. If I'm running SD, Horn Leech, Ivy Cudgel, I really only have 1 more slot to hit things that would attempt to wall me. Play Rough is a good option for dragons/fights, while superpower is an option for Steels. However in either of these cases I still have to worry about Gholdengo. Gholdengo would get me to run Knock off to hit him specifically. Sure Knock off also hits Cresselia a little harder, but I really am just running it purely for Gholdengo.

Now say I use a pokemon like Ting Lu. A pokemon with more usage than Gholdengo, Great Tusk, threatens Ting Lu's whole game plan, and Ting Lu doesn't have a ton to hit it back. Now if I play Ting Lu, I want to run Ruination as a way to deal good damage to Great Tusk. The difference here is, practically, I'm not running Ruination to deal with Great Tusk alone. Its also a great way of neutrally doing half to much of the metagame, pressuring roosts pp from Zap, Corv & Molt, breaking through Hatterene which would otherwise be a threat, hitting Rotom Wash, and getting a lot of damage off on a setup Torterra or Zamazenta. Ruination isnt JUST for Great Tusk. Glimmora is another example in running Energy Ball for Great Tusk primarily, but also uses it as a way of hitting LandoT, Samurott-Hisui, and Rotom Wash harder, while still hitting Garg if its running EB over Earth Power.

If it was just Rock Ogerpon annoyed by Gholdengo, I would be fine. But there are several other pokemon who have to specifically think of Ghold in team building. Sneaslers need Night Slash as a way of doing anything at all. Scizor needs Night Slash. Breloom Bulldoze. Two othewise potential OU mons. And for walls: Amoongus running foul play, Blissey Shadow Ball, Clef Fire blast where it could otherwise run Thunderwave to cripple steels. That on top of the mons that are also partially thinking of Ghold in their movesets: Shadow Ball on Special Val, Munkidori, and Non Cm Cresselias, KommoO with Flamethrower over a Fighting move or when it runs EQ, Garg with EQ in the case of Covert Cloak, Weezing Galar with Fire Blast where it could maybe run wisp instead... Gholdengo finds itself in the "niche" scenario in a lot of mons movesets.

This while being immune to strategies that can traditionally deal with walls: Encore, Taunt, Trick.. Hell, Leech Seed, Twave, Toxic, and Sleep as well which annoy walls: its completely immune. Gholdengo invalidates a lot of tools. It isn't as strong on the bulk side as something like Corv or Pex who can also be very restrictive. That may be a reason HO players don't seem to notice Ghold too much. But the effect Ghold has on the bulkier side of the meta is definitely pretty oppressive and is another contributing factor to the usage drop of many walls.

Isn't it the case in every metagame that you have to think about what's popular and build and run specific movesets so you don't auto lose to it? Just because you have to do this doesn't mean something is broken. I find this talk about hazards and Dengo and the like a bit mind numbing, we're going over the same tired arguments that people have been having for almost a year now. Dengo isn't broken there's isn't anything even close to people having to using Dachsbun level shit mons to stop it and you have to be really bad in the builder to not almost automatically have something on your team that can deal with it.

Likewise hazard stack crying is massively overblown imo, though I am a bit more sympathetic towards people who don't like it. Hazard stack has been around in other gens with equally shit removal (like gen 4, where you don't even have boots or ANY defog) and it not be a problem, I'm pretty convinced that people are only upset about it because they got used to gen 8 where removal was easy and boots were everywhere anyway. The only place where I think hazard stack is a problem is on Hrott as getting spikes up has become something that is offensively pressuring instead of an act a bit more risky due to the passivity of the turn getting a layer up where the opposition can do whatever they want and potentially end the game with a set up move or clever switch ect.

 

[Pierpat]

does the suspect process really deserve all the respect it gets when it leads us to results like gambit's? i think we should stop treating it like some sort of holy writ and just kick the fucking thing out the window already

Listen, I'm really sad kingambit avoided the ban too, but I don't think it warrants trashing the main instrument Smogon uses to take tiering action without just relying on the council.


Or maybe I do and I just don't want to come off as a radical

 

[SDK03]

The SV OU tiering council is currently conducting a vote on one Pokemon that received high enough support in the tiering survey. Please note that we are not voting on any Pokemon with low survey scores or that did not get included as we continue to value your feedback within our process.

In addition, there is a likelihood that, regardless of the vote’s outcome, we enter a suspect in the aftermath of this vote and in the coming days. Stay tuned for more information as it becomes readily available.

Ayy, we’re actually doing the Ogerpon-Hearthflame Ban Arc instead of timeskipping through it and the Kingambit Second Suspect Arc. Thought the council would timeskip all the way to the Gholdengo Suspect Arc to meet the deadline tbh

 

[pokeclysm]

The SV OU tiering council is currently conducting a vote on one Pokemon that received high enough support in the tiering survey. Please note that we are not voting on any Pokemon with low survey scores or that did not get included as we continue to value your feedback within our process.

In addition, there is a likelihood that, regardless of the vote’s outcome, we enter a suspect in the aftermath of this vote and in the coming days. Stay tuned for more information as it becomes readily available.

Looks like a certain special attacker with 135 Special Attack is finally getting this suspect test it deserves. Although Ting Lu beats it, it'd be very capable if it was allowed into the tier, what with its wide variety of moves and sets.

Can't wait to see if OU can handle Miraidon!

 

[MattC (Banned)]

The SV OU tiering council is currently conducting a vote on one Pokemon that received high enough support in the tiering survey. Please note that we are not voting on any Pokemon with low survey scores or that did not get included as we continue to value your feedback within our process.

In addition, there is a likelihood that, regardless of the vote’s outcome, we enter a suspect in the aftermath of this vote and in the coming days. Stay tuned for more information as it becomes readily available.

Well I WONDER WHOS GETTING THE BOOT NOW???!



I don't know... whatever gets gotten from the meta is 1 step to a better future

 

[SDK03]

Looks like a certain special attacker with 135 Special Attack is finally getting this suspect test it deserves. Although Ting Lu beats it, it'd be very capable if it was allowed into the tier, what with its wide variety of moves and sets.

Can't wait to see if OU can handle Miraidon!

Miraidon isn’t that bad tbh, Tera Fairy Thundurus-T checks it ez. Skill issue if OU can’t handle it.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Well I WONDER WHOS GETTING THE BOOT NOW???!



I don't know... whatever gets gotten from the meta is 1 step to a better future

gambit wasn't even on the survey, inexplicably

Miraidon isn’t that bad tbh, Tera Fairy Thundurus-T checks it ez. Skill issue if OU can’t handle it.

yeah, miraidon gets ganked by +2 banded lokix first impression and is walled by every fairy/ground type in existence, as well as milotic if you tera ground and tera fairy simultaneously, and of course tapu bulu. no shot it's even staying above uu

 

[Finchinator]

It’s sure as hell not Gambit

Imagine the riots if we quickbanned something that didn’t get banned after a suspect within the next two months AND didn’t survey it…

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

It’s sure as hell not Gambit

Imagine the riots if we quickbanned something that didn’t get banned after a suspect within the next two months AND didn’t survey it…

the riots in question: