Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Gouging Fire is banned]

[tommytt22]

Anyways, I want to talk about

I think ting-Lu is one of the most OP Pokémon in OU. There is virtually nothing you can do to stop red card ting-Lu from getting 2 layers of hazards and a pile of chip through ruination and cycling. I find it to be wayyyy too effective at this job and prob a top3 restrictive Pokémon in the tier.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sharpness Kleavor X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ting-Lu: 546-644 (106.2 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

There are 3 slight problems in this...

Along with Gambit, these 3 Pokemon decide what is viable and what is not. Losing to one of them can be excused, but losing to 3 is too much. Apart from that, Moltres, Iron Moth, Iron Valiant, Zapdos... lots of Mons wall such a set. I guess you can slap Flare Blitz to delete Gholdengo or Wild Charge to have a shot vs Dozo and Zapdos, but you can,t beat them all.

Really, Slither Wing has 2 niches:
1. Band Wallbreaker in Sun that can also RK stuff with First Impression.
2. Bulky pivot.

Its a good Mon and best looking legendary of the Generation, but if you want to set-up with it, you should go to UU.

Too lazy to make a big post atm but ive used bulky slither wing to great effect in OU. setup is hard to use i agree. I use wisp, morning sun, cc and uturn. Gives zamazenta some grief, along with darkrai and gambit. Those matchups alone make it worth a look.

 

[senorlopez]

Why is this thread being discouraged to discuss dropping ubers when council members have (jokingly or not) teased unbanning ubers multiple times? lol

 

[Finchinator]

Because this thread gets derailed repeatedly by it? Have you read the last 497 pages? And even if it’s “discouraged”, we have still been incredibly lenient and allowed it to happen to the point that theorymon of Ubers has taken up a substantial chunk of the thread.

 

[Finchinator]

Like if someone has a serious and realistic proposal, we haven’t ever shut it down. But when things aren’t that, it’s no point wasting 2-3 pages to get to an inevitable conclusion. You explain the issue and move on. The same logic applies to ban/suspect proposals as well

 

[senorlopez]

Because this thread gets derailed repeatedly by it? Have you read the last 497 pages? And even if it’s “discouraged”, we have still been incredibly lenient and allowed it to happen to the point that theorymon of Ubers has taken up a substantial chunk of the thread.

Like I get and agree with the derailing argument, but there's tonnes of other topics that also derail discussion. If council makes it a topic then we should be allowed to discuss that no? It's not derailing if it's actually topical? (Council can obviously post whatever they like, wherever they like)

Just seems a bit odd for TPP to have to come out to specifically call out ubers discussion when he rarely comes in to comment on anything else when chat has been way worse for other things with less relevance (not criticism just an observation).

 

[Finchinator]

We have stopped all sorts of topics. We didn’t allow DLC2 discussion during DLC1. We blocked discussion of certain suspects. We stopped theorymon at other points. We even blocked discussion of certain trends when it bottomed out in the thread. TPP being the mod who did it this time or didn’t do it last time isn’t really relevant — we all act on behalf of the moderation team, which TPP is a valuable member of who just happened to be active at this moment. Other times, it can be me or another mod. I don’t think this is inconsistent and I don’t think it’s incorrect.

If people have serious retest proposals, I’m all ears — probably best they reach out to me privately first as this thread seldom goes productively, but I’m not firmly opposed to them alluding to it here so long as it doesn’t derail and we stop it when it does. It’s not exactly a firm science so much as just common sense and staying productive at the end of the day. We just want the best metagame and best thread.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Like I get and agree with the derailing argument, but there's tonnes of other topics that also derail discussion. If council makes it a topic then we should be allowed to discuss that no? It's not derailing if it's actually topical? (Council can obviously post whatever they like, wherever they like)

Just seems a bit odd for TPP to have to come out to specifically call out ubers discussion when he rarely comes in to comment on anything else when chat has been way worse for other things with less relevance (not criticism just an observation).

it's because y'all are annoying as fuck. moderation can't say it outright but i will

 

[senorlopez]

it's because y'all are annoying as fuck. moderation can't say it outright but i will

And you're not? lmao

You have literally got players banned for agitating them lol

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

And you're not? lmao

of course i am but i'm at least self-aware about it

You have literally got players banned for agitating them lol

people love this narrative because it's an excuse to hate on me but that's not how it went. bro was throwing slurs and insults before i even stepped into the discussion. top player privilege and connections have been the only things keeping him out of perma for ages anyway

 

[Finchinator]

Let’s not do this. I value everyone here who cares about the tier. Hopefully you all do, too.

 

[senorlopez]

of course i am but i'm at least self-aware about it

Complains about topic that derails thread...

derails thread...

Just another day in the forums....

Not replying, have fun.

 

[Anchor9]

Interesting first battle of the OU Trio Tour: Mimikyu Stardust brought a Cryoganal on a Sun team: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9ou-781973

The set was
Cryogonal @ Light Clay
Tera: Probably Poison or Steel
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Freeze Dry
- Probably Reflect

Thinking over it, I can see the reasoning very well. It’s Ice typing combined with Levitate, Rapid Spin, quite a decent Speed tier, and recovery allows it to beat a lot of hazard setters. It’s an entry hazard remover that beats Gliscor with Levitate and Freeze Dry. Beats Great Tusk without CC (which is important because Great Tusk heavily dents most Sun teams after a Rapid Spin) which I believe is becoming more common since it needs Ice Spinner for Gliscor more and more. It’s SpDef allows it to be a solid Kyurem and Darkrai check. I find it very interesting. This tour’s going to very fun to watch develop.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Complains about topic that derails thread...

derails thread...

Just another day in the forums....

Not replying, have fun.

you were the one who derailed the thread by complaining about a mod trying to stop people from derailing the thread. look at the past several posts before yours, the discussion was very clearly moving towards more productive topics. people were talking about slither wing, maushold, enamorus, lando-t, things that actually exist in the tier and their levels of usefulness

and speaking of more productive topics, let's cover cryogonal more. it's been kind of a sleeper pick for the whole gen and i'm glad it's getting discussion again. there was brief coverage of a ground tera blast + freeze-dry set during the gliscor era of dlc1, does that have any potential in current meta?

 

[Roshino]

Ice becoming a valid defensive typing because it resists itself and only itself to block Freeze-Dry/Earth Power is making my brain go smoother

Edit for add-on

I'll link it later, but I'm sure there is a Hydrapple set somewhere using Tera Ice/Tera Blast to similar effect and purpose

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Ice becoming a valid defensive typing because it resists itself and only itself to block Freeze-Dry/Earth Power is making my brain go smoother

Edit for add-on

I'll link it later, but I'm sure there is a Hydrapple set somewhere using Tera Ice/Tera Blast to similar effect and purpose

i remember tera blast ice hydrapple being on an early dlc2 stall team and wondering what the hell people were running tera ice for on a defensive team besides kyurem. turns out it's basically just kyurem. which feels like kind of a problem if i'm being honest

 

[Eeveeto]

i remember tera blast ice hydrapple being on an early dlc2 stall team and wondering what the hell people were running tera ice for on a defensive team besides kyurem. turns out it's basically just kyurem. which feels like kind of a problem if i'm being honest

Well, that set had Body Press too, so its also for Weavile. Granted, Dondozo also walls Weavile, but on many (bad, aka without hazard removers) Stalls, Dondozo doesn,t want to lose the Boots, meanwhile Hydrapple has Sticky Hold as one of its abilities.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

i remember tera blast ice hydrapple being on an early dlc2 stall team and wondering what the hell people were running tera ice for on a defensive team besides kyurem. turns out it's basically just kyurem. which feels like kind of a problem if i'm being honest

I wonder if eyes will be on Kyurem after olt? That mon is a demon and I can only imagine it getting more broken.

 

[Anchor9]

i remember tera blast ice hydrapple being on an early dlc2 stall team and wondering what the hell people were running tera ice for on a defensive team besides kyurem. turns out it's basically just kyurem. which feels like kind of a problem if i'm being honest

That Hydrapple was on the team to specifically answer Weavile / Meowscarda hazard stack structures that would quickly wear down stall teams. It was supposed to be a Knock absorber instead of Gliscor so Gliscor didn’t have to guess between Knock Off or Triple Axel when switching in to absorb a potential Knock Off. Pretty sure Tera Blast was more of a filler but it was also useful to snipe Gliscor, as otherwise the Sword Dance set got endless setup opportunities.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I wonder if eyes will be on Kyurem after olt? That mon is a demon and I can only imagine it getting more broken.

there are already eyes on kyurem. proof:

 

[sims796]

Stupid looking chicken shit dragon send his ass back to digimon where it belongs. Further proof that ice types should keep they ass outta OU.

Been testing out new mons just to punish that stupid thing. Scizor makes for a nice defogger.

 

[AquiIo]

Been testing out new mons just to punish that stupid thing. Scizor makes for a nice defogger.

Scizor makes for a nice defogger until you realize it has no recovery and blanks into defensive dengo (heh... notice a theme? almost like this mon is banworthy or something..) . It's forced to run boots as well due to it taking 3 billion from hazards and thus can't even recover with lefties. I love me a good scizor but unfortunately brokendengo makes it hard to justify fog sciz rn, band or sd are the main two real sets for it imo.

 

[Rekka's Backend]

I've become a Slither Wing Truther holy fuck, this thing puts in so much work its insane. What are some sets you guys have tired on it? I've been using a utility set by Morkal to great success, still getting used to the mon but it lives thru so much its unreal. BU as a set sounds fun in theory, as does AV.

EDIT: I'm ignoring everything else happening in this thread I want to talk about the bug he's my new friend

 

[sims796]

Scizor makes for a nice defogger until you realize it has no recovery and blanks into defensive dengo (heh... notice a theme? almost like this mon is banworthy or something..) . It's forced to run boots as well due to it taking 3 billion from hazards and thus can't even recover with lefties. I love me a good scizor but unfortunately brokendengo makes it hard to justify fog sciz rn, band or sd are the main two real sets for it imo.

Yeah, pretty much this.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I've become a Slither Wing Truther holy fuck, this thing puts in so much work its insane. What are some sets you guys have tired on it? I've been using a utility set by Morkal to great success, still getting used to the mon but it lives thru so much its unreal. BU as a set sounds fun in theory, as does AV.

EDIT: I'm ignoring everything else happening in this thread I want to talk about the bug he's my new friend

i wonder if proto spdef av on sun has any sort of useful niche. my first instinct is "probably not" considering that av is a noobtrap on like 90% of mons and fat sets aren't where sun really shines (heh), but that's a lot of special bulk with a very nice attack stat backing it up, and it does get leech life so you're not completely gimping its longevity. i think it might fuck over darkrai really hard at least, which is always nice for sun

 

[Heatranator]

i wonder if proto spdef av on sun has any sort of useful niche. my first instinct is "probably not" considering that av is a noobtrap on like 90% of mons and fat sets aren't where sun really shines (heh), but that's a lot of special bulk with a very nice attack stat backing it up, and it does get leech life so you're not completely gimping its longevity. i think it might fuck over darkrai really hard at least, which is always nice for sun

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/av-slither-win-sun-peak-2003-5.3737925/
This rmt with AV slither wing I think had proto spdef (if my numbers are right). This one had tera blast, though I do think flare blitz or even wild charge could have a use case on slither as can hit things it may struggle with harder. The longevity issue is less of an issue on sun, where they have a much quicker pace. Plus, you are neutral to rocks, which is another cool attribute.