That's not entirely fair. 8 mons have been suspected so far, and 4 ended with a ban (unless I'm forgetting someone).No guarantee Arch will be gone (although it should go). The community doesn’t seem to vote to ban much of anything these days.
That's not entirely fair. 8 mons have been suspected so far, and 4 ended with a ban (unless I'm forgetting someone).No guarantee Arch will be gone (although it should go). The community doesn’t seem to vote to ban much of anything these days.
That's not entirely fair. 8 mons have been suspected so far, and 4 ended with a ban (unless I'm forgetting someone).
So it’s all good for u if the meta is : HO / Stall / Rain / Sun ? With rain being the most used playstyle and Clodsire being 20% usage ? (Idr if it’s SPL or current ladder) Even if Archa wasn’t that broken, the meta is not fun at all and it’s all good for u ? No names defeating good players only cuz of Rain or MU fish being broken ? Then :/Not 8, 10, including Arch. The title of the Suspect thread has the number 10. Wake, Zamazenta, Gambit and now Kyurem were the only ones that avoided the Ban. So, we have 5 Bans and 4 No Bans, time to equilibrate things by voting Do Not Ban on Archaludon
So it’s all good for u if the meta is : HO / Stall / Rain / Sun ? With rain being the most used playstyle and Clodsire being 20% usage ? (Idr if it’s SPL or current ladder) Even if Archa wasn’t that broken, the meta is not fun at all and it’s all good for u ? No names defeating good players only cuz of Rain or MU fish being broken ? Then :/
Meta is not good for me, I want as much as 12 Pokemon banned, just don,t have Arch as one of them. I haven,t seen Rain dominant enough to be nerfed, unless its Raging Bolt the Mon banned, but for its power in Sun, not in Rain.
"No names defeating good players" isn,t really an argument. Someone who is no name today, can be dominant tomorrow.
still has 135 spa, 135 speed, and one of the best offensive typings in the game. sun, the playstyle where flutter mane fits best, is even stronger now than it was at launch thanks to the addition of the dinosaur trio, so specs protospeed flutter mane would be even harder to deal with. imagine it paired up with gouging fire, for example
Pokemon that probably deserve some discussion:
- — On the fence about including this one as I don’t really see it as broken, but it does limit options teambuilding wise. The right reactive Tera or core can make locking in really hard for Sun teams, but the upside is massive. Definitely not a pressing one here though.
honestly just based on this alone I'd be converted to DNB if I wasn't already. maushold users need to learn some fucking RESPECTNo living Population bomb from 15% is the funniest shit ever we really need to send that fucking bridge to quadruple Ubers
The point of the calc was to show how strong Snow + Veil was. I left it out to show how much a regular attack would have done without both.252 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Baxcalibur in Snow with an ally's Aurora Veil: 142-168 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Baxcalibur with an ally's Aurora Veil: 105-125 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
you left out Aurora Veil in that last calc
Pokemon that probably deserve some discussion:
- — Very hard to switch into, especially now as the set mix diversified to fit Play Rough and Superpower more. It isn’t quite on par with those mentioned above as it is very vulnerable to hazards and tends to be a more stationary, one-off killer as opposed to being immediately threatening of the game. However, switching in is hard and it makes slower teams really struggle right now. Curious to see if more Hydrapple, Sinistcha, Raging Bolt, etc. pop up if an Arch ban occurs
Pokemon that probably deserve some discussion:
- — On the fence about including this one as I don’t really see it as broken, but it does limit options teambuilding wise. The right reactive Tera or core can make locking in really hard for Sun teams, but the upside is massive. Definitely not a pressing one here though.
Pokemon that have been and will continue to garner discussion for potential tiering action:
- — Roaring Moon is one of the scariest sweepers in the tier. You tend to see Taunt for Skarmory, Corviknight, Dondozo, and Gliscor while Earthquake hits Kingambit, Raging Bolt, and Heatran (or Brick Break, which even covers Air Balloon Kingambit). On the one hand, you can argue it is able to handpick most counterplay with its moveset, but on the other hand, you can argue it cannot cover everything and priority is universally strong into it. Ice Shard, ESpeed, and Sucker Punch if it uses Tera all can take it out often. I think Moon strains teambuilding a fair amount and deserves to be discussed, but there’s a lot to be said on both ends
- — Raging Bolt is a menace. The metagame gets by on it thanks to two things: immunities to both STABs and the uptick in bulky teams with Clodsire or Blissey. You can “play around” it better than most seemingly broken things, which goes a long way, because of Ground types being very common and Tera Fairy existing on many Pokemon, too. However, there’s a lot of risk tied to traditional Raging Bolt counterplay. I think it toes the line between overly restrictive and just extremely strong, but I am curious to see what the next developments are.
- — Various DD sets and CB speed boost Tera Fire on Sun are all superb. Bulkier exploits with Breaking Swipe and a defensive Tera have been on trend of late, but this set lacks some of the immediacy conventional offensive sets have. I do think, similar to Roaring Moon, it has some sway when it comes to picking its own counters. I don’t think that’s the most healthy dynamic, but I also find lower base speed to be somewhat of a limiting factor. Definitely worthy of being included in discussions
I checked, and in order to live all 10 hits, you need more than 57 HP and all 10 hits need to be min rolls. Also Archaludon is a unique case because of Stamina and Steel typing. It’s not like it has Eternamax Eternatus bulk. Plus Aggron can survive PB easily.No living Population bomb from 15% is the funniest shit ever we really need to send that fucking bridge to quadruple Ubers
It was already +2I checked, and in order to live all 10 hits, you need more than 57 HP and all 10 hits need to be min rolls. Also Archaludon is a unique case because of Stamina and Steel typing. It’s not like it has Eternamax Eternatus bulk. Plus Aggron can survive PB easily.
252 Atk Technician Maushold Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aggron: 50-60 (14.5 - 17.4%) -- approx. possible 6HKO
Would be OK with banning any of the 6 mons you mentioned, except Wake.Pokemon that have been and will continue to garner discussion for potential tiering action:
- — Roaring Moon is one of the scariest sweepers in the tier. You tend to see Taunt for Skarmory, Corviknight, Dondozo, and Gliscor while Earthquake hits Kingambit, Raging Bolt, and Heatran (or Brick Break, which even covers Air Balloon Kingambit). On the one hand, you can argue it is able to handpick most counterplay with its moveset, but on the other hand, you can argue it cannot cover everything and priority is universally strong into it. Ice Shard, ESpeed, and Sucker Punch if it uses Tera all can take it out often. I think Moon strains teambuilding a fair amount and deserves to be discussed, but there’s a lot to be said on both ends
- — Raging Bolt is a menace. The metagame gets by on it thanks to two things: immunities to both STABs and the uptick in bulky teams with Clodsire or Blissey. You can “play around” it better than most seemingly broken things, which goes a long way, because of Ground types being very common and Tera Fairy existing on many Pokemon, too. However, there’s a lot of risk tied to traditional Raging Bolt counterplay. I think it toes the line between overly restrictive and just extremely strong, but I am curious to see what the next developments are.
- — Various DD sets and CB speed boost Tera Fire on Sun are all superb. Bulkier exploits with Breaking Swipe and a defensive Tera have been on trend of late, but this set lacks some of the immediacy conventional offensive sets have. I do think, similar to Roaring Moon, it has some sway when it comes to picking its own counters. I don’t think that’s the most healthy dynamic, but I also find lower base speed to be somewhat of a limiting factor. Definitely worthy of being included in discussions
Is it just me or is waterpon just kinda... meh? I mean, we have 8 good dragon types and 3 good grass types. Most of them can either take a hit or outspeed and oneshot. And even outside of those resists, I find my teams usually always have at least one thing to take a hit and revenge, whether its zama, skarm, tera'd lu or tusk. Plus, even if it was more difficult to switch into, 110 just isn't enough naturally without a (good) way of boosting it, meaning you get revenge killed by quite a few things like moon, meow, mixed ival, and CB pult. Overall it's like the 8th most threatening setup sweeper in their tier imo. It's certainly not bad, it does put up some good work against rain with WA and tera'd ivy cudgels, but not banworthyPokemon that probably deserve some discussion:
- — Very hard to switch into, especially now as the set mix diversified to fit Play Rough and Superpower more. It isn’t quite on par with those mentioned above as it is very vulnerable to hazards and tends to be a more stationary, one-off killer as opposed to being immediately threatening of the game. However, switching in is hard and it makes slower teams really struggle right now. Curious to see if more Hydrapple, Sinistcha, Raging Bolt, etc. pop up if an Arch ban occurs
Its crazy how far I've come as a Player. Back in launch, I'd thought Hreat Tusk and Treads were going to be most annoying, unevolving, parts of the meta that other players will keep in the meta no matter the cost. Now, those two things look like Trash bulking up to still do garbage damage. Why are they OU?
Rapid Spin while killing some relevant OU Mons, such as Gambit and Gholdengo. Also, if you think Great Tusk does garbage damage, you have been using defensive spreads, which is indeed terrible outside of Stall. Defensive Treads has some potential, but Tusk its all about hitting hard and spinning.
I will say if we do look at Volc as a community (down the line), lets please look at Tera first, because ideally I think the community (for the most part) is content with restricting tera by banning Tera Blast because I don't think Volc is problematic if it loses Tera Blast, for example it will always lose to Heatran.
So it’s all good for u if the meta is : HO / Stall / Rain / Sun ? With rain being the most used playstyle and Clodsire being 20% usage ? (Idr if it’s SPL or current ladder) Even if Archa wasn’t that broken, the meta is not fun at all and it’s all good for u ? No names defeating good players only cuz of Rain or MU fish being broken ? Then :/
Pokemon that probably deserve some discussion:
- — Very hard to switch into, especially now as the set mix diversified to fit Play Rough and Superpower more. It isn’t quite on par with those mentioned above as it is very vulnerable to hazards and tends to be a more stationary, one-off killer as opposed to being immediately threatening of the game. However, switching in is hard and it makes slower teams really struggle right now. Curious to see if more Hydrapple, Sinistcha, Raging Bolt, etc. pop up if an Arch ban occurs
- — Every set has a few checks or counters, but the overlap is very limited across the entire set mix. And it has so many applications. 2A Sub or Morning Sun, 3A with various Tera options, mono-attack with Wisp, even Sunny Day. I am curious to see what the next big innovation on the matchup moth is.
- — On the fence about including this one as I don’t really see it as broken, but it does limit options teambuilding wise. The right reactive Tera or core can make locking in really hard for Sun teams, but the upside is massive. Definitely not a pressing one here though.
Unfortunately, I think the time period when we could have acted on Tera is long gone. Support for action on Tera is at an all-time low and will probably get lower still. We will not get a Tera Blast ban when under 50% of qualified players even want action on Tera.
Not anymore, noSo D-Speed is currently not even on anyone's radar?
I will say if we do look at Volc as a community (down the line), lets please look at Tera first, because ideally I think the community (for the most part) is content with restricting tera by banning Tera Blast because I don't think Volc is problematic if it loses Tera Blast, for example it will always lose to Heatran.
Raging bolt pretty much mandates Ting-Lu or Clod on every team not to lose and even those get fucked by weather ball. It has some 4MSS, but like, it's still pretty bullshit. Just compare it to our suspect last time, kyurem, and it'll come put on top in many areas.
Just makes it less special since first hit is already doing half damage and last 6 hits are doing min damage too.It was already +2